Top 5 Worst Blood Bowl Star Players (June 2022) - Top 5 Friday (Bonehead Podcast)

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  • Опубліковано 22 гру 2024

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  • @Bar0ns_Den
    @Bar0ns_Den 2 роки тому +17

    Hey,
    Okay so I'm with you on three of these guys. However I feel I must go into bat for Zolcath and Frank. With so many star players out there, it can be hard to get some real experience of using them all. Especially when you don't like the look of them. Well I have used both Zolcath and Frank quite extensively so I'd like to offer some reasons as to why I don't think they are quite in the bottom 5.
    Hear me out.....
    Frank - In the league I play, my Necro team was about 500,000 down to the others as it was new. I totally agree with you about Chaney. Always take this guy. For me he is number 2 behind Griff! (Necro bias). However as I had left over cash in a lot of my early games, I took Frank a few times as I thought I may as well. We have Orcs, Chaos Chosen and even the human team is pretty punchy so I thought a big guy would help. The only other available big guy for Necro, Undead, Tomb King or Vampire at the moment is Grak. They are virtually the same except with Grak you get +1 move, bonehead and a decent halfling. With Frank you get 1 less move, no nega trait, regen, stand firm, thick skull and an awesome special rule. I can't over state that enough. It might seem little but this guy hits hard. So you will get the chance to smash serval foes down and when you get that oh so close 9 on an injury roll or if you've saved mighty blow and 8, you can smash that dude off the pitch for good. This happened in several games and you can also save the dice roll for that someone special (looking at you Hakflem ;)). You're allowed to play it after the dice roll so you will never waste it unless you don't get round to using it. He can also take loads of hits. A lack of a combat skill does hurt but even if you get a both down he's probably going to survive it. He may look weak on paper and he probably is a little over costed but I have real world experience of him doing loads of good stuff for Necro. Literally he and Wilhelm were an equaliser and they both did great things. Yes you won't build a team around him for a torney. However in league play, when you have enough to induce him, I would definitely consider him. In fact I may even pick him over Chaney if I had both my werewolves and both my ghouls. Frank eats less SPP.
    Zolcath - So I've used him on my Wood Elves as, due to injuries I often find my self down TV. Now there are other options that are more 'elfy'. However, I usually have enough of my actual elves to be elfy and I want them doing it to earn the SPP. What I often need is someone with a bit of strength and can take a hit saving the lives of my wet cardboard linemen. Again it's all about other options and if you need to boost your strength a little for whatever reason then Zolcath and Grak are your only options on an elf team. I haven't used the hypno gaze rule yet so I'm not sure how useful that is, but being able to soak up hits, protect my fragile guys in return and dish some pain back was very useful. I once had him and my tree and I couldn't believe how much life they saved from just being on the line and allowing my Wood Elves to live and be amazing everywhere else.
    Neither of these are the best and I wouldn't try and claim they are but I do think they have enough potential for their given teams to raise them out of the bottom 5. I have seen Swift Twins and Roxanna in action in High and Wood Elf teams and they didn't do as much for the money as Zolcath did in supporting the team. Zug is better than Zolcath for their costs but they are never in competition as Zug can play for lizards (amongt others) and not elf teams and Zolcath can play for elf teams and not lizards.
    I think I'd be tempted to drop the Swift twins in with Barik, Gretchin, Skrorg and Willow Rosebark in my top 5 worst Star Players.
    Anyway thanks for sparking the debate. Love your content as usual!

    • @robertlove4079
      @robertlove4079 2 роки тому

      Well you kinda sold me on Frank a little bit for the Necro team for League not Tourny. But ZOLCATH should have never been on the List in the First place. The TWINS are FARRRRR WORST THAN Zolcath at 110k less.. I can fit him in on a Slann team. I still think Barik should not be on the Top 5 he better than most think. People that play Halflings a lot know what I talking about. For Me it in order Frank, Skrorg, Swift Twins, Willow then of course Gretchin. THe ONLY reason I still keep Frank in the Top 5 is Cost. If he was 210 I would not.

  • @Gitsy18
    @Gitsy18 2 роки тому +3

    Great to see this video Ben, awesome work as always. Real good points for all the Stars, RIP Barik and Gretchen. The only one I would swap would be Zolcoth for Willow. Zolcoth has a lot of things going against him but he is a pretty nifty Beatstick and roadblock for Elves. Willow on the other hand isn't a great blocker, roadblock or particularly fast, lacking any niche. Still, I can see your point with Zolcoth and loved the video. Keep it up!

  • @scrubsrc4084
    @scrubsrc4084 2 роки тому +1

    i do love that the dice often decide if we like a certain player or not.
    for the price my son takes farblast as a runner with extra skills for the same price but secret weapon does damage him and does mean he saves him for certain plays

  • @-Charon-
    @-Charon- 2 роки тому +1

    I don't get to play much Blood Bowl on tabletop, but I did run a brand new Black Orcs team with Morg last night on the BB3 beta to a decent effect. He helped me salvage a draw when matched vs a much higher rated team.

  • @luciopercachin
    @luciopercachin 2 роки тому +4

    I know it's a dead horse, but I'm still kind of surprised the Hail Mary Pass nerf didn't come up with regard to Barik. Both his utility and flavor seem to be tied up in the idea that the skill is way more usable than it actually is. (i.e. Not needing Barik to roll a 4+ to avoid disaster.)

  • @jaredlucev2705
    @jaredlucev2705 2 роки тому +5

    Said it before, max out Gretchen's Ma and Av. At Ma 9 she will reliably shadow almost everyone in the game, that is endless dodges they have to roll. Max out her armor so nothing is likely to ever break her. Finish it with Stand Firm and keep her at 260K. It keeps with her theme of hating the game and being there to ruin the players day while making her a beast to remove. She isn't abusive with that Ma because of No Hands.
    Farblast just needs to lose Secret Weapon and he's fine.

    • @Beastius
      @Beastius 2 роки тому +2

      Very interesting thought process, I like it. Gretchen is my favourite star player model design (ignoring the ball on the base) and lore wise, but Christ alive she is terrible price and rules wise. In my club we've often wondered whether foul appearance is under powered, maybe if it triggered on a 1 or 2 she might be more annoying/survivable? I hadn't thought of what you suggested however, I might have to see if my club will let me try her this way for our next season, see how she gets on!

    • @jaredlucev2705
      @jaredlucev2705 2 роки тому +3

      @@Beastius whats wrong with the ball? Its a rather nice blunt metaphor for how she felt her life was tied down by her husband's obsession with the game.

    • @Beastius
      @Beastius 2 роки тому +2

      @@jaredlucev2705 In fairness I hadn't thought of it that way, I was just doubly annoyed by it because a) I hate how most star players have a ball modelled on them - seriously how many balls are on the pitch?! - and b) it made even less sense for her to have it because she literally can't interact with the ball!
      However as I say I hadn't thought of it how you mentioned, and in that regard it is a nice touch.

    • @jaredlucev2705
      @jaredlucev2705 2 роки тому +2

      @@Beastius yeah having almost every catcher, thrower, blitzer etc with the ball modeled on is a bit silly.

  • @malhildreth8418
    @malhildreth8418 2 роки тому +1

    Are Amazons not in the Lustria Super league?

  • @matthewmichaels7422
    @matthewmichaels7422 2 роки тому +2

    I wish zolcath was maybe a little bit cheaper or had an actual combat skill. Maybe even available to more teams because he just looks incredible. He makes me want a team of zoats

  • @Maxxoad
    @Maxxoad 2 роки тому +2

    This list is like a bucket list for tournaments! 😅😅 I'm almost interested in Gretchen or Barik, now that you demonstrated for the 57th time the they're garbage, just to try hard playing them and giving me a side-goal for the day: grabbing a couple interesting plays :-D

  • @romain2725
    @romain2725 2 роки тому +1

    I've never played with stars. Am I missing much?
    Idea for a future top 5: 5 teams that underperform in BB Sevens.

  • @stuartshelley3052
    @stuartshelley3052 2 роки тому +2

    Haha! Knew who your #1 would be as soon as I saw the title! 😂
    I love Gretchen thematically, but yeah, her numbers and skill package just...
    ...Don't. Anything.

  • @garybethel8845
    @garybethel8845 2 роки тому +1

    Our new season starts on Sunday and we've decided to use the rostered star player rule. We have 14 teams playing and all of the top 5 worst star players have been picked apart from Barik so it'll be interesting to see how they get on!

    • @jennybyford8071
      @jennybyford8071 2 роки тому

      Need more people filming their leagues, like to see more games

  • @grahampickett8409
    @grahampickett8409 2 роки тому +4

    I'm coming to Bournemouth in July to prove you wrong...I'm bringing Barik Farblast!!! 😜💥💥💥

    • @robertlove4079
      @robertlove4079 2 роки тому +1

      GO get it Graham>>!!!!!!😜💥💥💥

  • @shadowcat6lives639
    @shadowcat6lives639 2 роки тому +1

    I think frank n stein is missing brawler to help with competing with the other 250k players. Maybe armbar for theme

  • @derkaderkawillie
    @derkaderkawillie 2 роки тому +1

    If Gretchen Wächter 'The Blood Bowl Widow' actually had BLOCK (like the Necromantic Wraiths she is built off of) I think she could actually back up that 260,000 cost as an amazing Ball Hound. Blo-dge-Step, Jump Up, Shadowing, Foul Appearance, Disturbing Prescence would HAUNT the ball all game for your opponent!
    Saving up a million SPP to give a Wraith choosen Dodge, Jump Up, Shadowing, +1MA stat mod, & +1AG Stat mod, actually comes in at 255,000. So you are actually better off building your own Gretchen!

  • @mattmcd31
    @mattmcd31 2 роки тому +1

    I'm with you Ben. The words you are looking for is "Opportunity Cost". Can I get something more useful or similar cheaper.

  • @trashfire9641
    @trashfire9641 2 роки тому +1

    I played with the Swift Twins recently, they were much more usefull for me than Glart Smashrip and Black Gobbo were for my opponent.

  • @Cuculutu
    @Cuculutu 2 роки тому

    I heard Ripper is a star player in Blood Bowl 3 (plays for black orcs) are you going to make a video about him?

  • @MrRrleonc689
    @MrRrleonc689 2 роки тому

    Maybe Gretchen should have - Haunting Howl: oncer per game perform a strength 3 blitz action that negates all skills from the defender. Or something similar...

  • @samueltech232
    @samueltech232 2 роки тому

    Hi Ben!. You should do a Top 5 value for money players (and the opposite)

  • @mcsnaga
    @mcsnaga 2 роки тому +1

    I'd replace Barik on this list with the Swift Twins. Good, but expensive and never affordable. Oh for some Star Player price changes in 6 months time.

  • @aerossetti
    @aerossetti 2 роки тому

    Love the siri snap back clever boy!

  • @JackRabbit002
    @JackRabbit002 2 роки тому

    Yeah I can completely understand these points in all honesty but I always go for rule of cool! I'm trying to see the use of Stoutmead but I like the mini and any model that makes me immediately smile gets points....Hence loving Halflings despite only ever playing them to watch them die But naming them the Burning-ham Blue Noses just seems appropriate!!

  • @terlshockley442
    @terlshockley442 2 роки тому +2

    Barick in a halflings team when you can't get deeproot or Griff could be fun....but I feel like a keg might be better lol

    • @Cuculutu
      @Cuculutu 2 роки тому

      Akhorne is better too for that price.

    • @terlshockley442
      @terlshockley442 2 роки тому +1

      @@Cuculutu good call out, I'm running halflings next season so I'm gunna be exploring the depth of the star players.

    • @robertlove4079
      @robertlove4079 2 роки тому +1

      @@terlshockley442 I running Halfling now you usally get 100k to 200k or more on most matches. If you go really cheap and only take 11 players and 1 rr 1 catcher and 1 hefty. That only a tv of 615. So you get over 300k in then always take the Chef that still leaves you 200k more to get Star players.

    • @terlshockley442
      @terlshockley442 2 роки тому +1

      @@robertlove4079 that's basically my plan.

  • @DanL-UK
    @DanL-UK 4 дні тому

    Gretchen is over valued for what she does so needs either a point drop and/or add in extra movement (no hands means she can't be fast scorer), extra armour and/or some extra skills that fit her spoiling game theme such as: strip ball, tackle, defensive, arm bar, guard or diving tackle or from incorporeal theme: leap or break tackle - I would not go with stand firm as I feel side step fits the ghost theme better. currently she is a bit like Estelle but can't be a ball handler with more skills for 70k more or a like slightly higher stat and skilled wraith for 165k more
    Not really relevant to this video but continuing on from above star player I don't know why normal wraiths have block instead of dodge either as it would fit their incorporeal ghost theme better - then as less useful on non-ball handlers and no longer decent blitzers/blockers they could drop the price and/or add in other skills that fit the theme: disturbing presence, jump up, leap, break tackle or shadowing although the latter option of skills would make Gretchen less special.
    Given that Barik has a bazooka to fire the ball surely cloud burster (he also has cannoneer I believe not shown on your video) would fit the theme. Given he is specific passing model really needs additional agility point (to pick up or be passed the ball), passing point and/or accurate skill or kick skill (to represent him firing the ball instead of a kick) to make worthwhile taking even if means a point increase. Barik does give a passing option however to some teams that don't otherwise have a throwing option although this is for teams you would not normally want to throw with. Both him and Skrull though do give passing options to some teams that otherwise don't have an option, Skrull is more expensive and although wont get sent off for a secret weapon, throwers are mainly of use when on the offense and not in defense so therefore possibly Barik is better choice for a dwarf team, if have enough subs. However Skrull I wouldn't put in worse 5 as gives a he gives a throwing option to undead and necromantic (and Vampires although they already have a ok throwing option) teams who have okay agility and movement players for catching and running to touchline as well. Skrull also has a once per game decent chance of long pass play.
    Zzharg Madeye (not released when you did your video). Should be considered similar to and with similar points as above with Barik but he is worse because costs 50k more for 2 less movement (so not as good on back line as a ball fetcher/on defense), 1 more armour and has nerves of steel instead of pass (not as useful passing skill) although he does have a better special skill with chance once per game of injuring enemy player within 3 squares (with chance of backfire). His one benefit is giving passing option to Badland Brawl teams that otherwise don't have a thrower although these are not teams you would normally want to throw the ball with anyway the better option to getting Zzargr for passing if you can afford it would be to run the ball with Hakflem instead.
    Like stated in video Frank is just a slightly better flesh golem for lots more money and you can take better value star players, so he needs a significant price drop and/or additional skills for blocking. However with Grim and 2 other star players not released when you made your list I think he is now just outside the worst 5. Skills that might fit Frankenstein's monster theme might include: tackle, brawler, block, grab, juggernaut, disturbing presence and foul appearance. Wilhelm is much better option at similar price point, other better value for money albeit at different price points for bashing would include: Akhorne, Bryce/Helmut, Ivan and Count Luther.
    Grim Ironjaw should be in the worst 5 star players: His strength is not good enough for the skill multiple block to be much use and it can't be used with his frenzy skill. In addition his one extra strength compared with normal trollslayers is slightly offset by them having dauntless anyway. So 105k extra compared with a normal trollslayer for his special skill is just giving mighty blow once per game, 1 extra strength if dauntless fails and having loner. Needs to lose multiple block and gain other skills or a price drop. The skills that would fit the slayer theme might be: juggernaut, mighty blow, piling on, wrestle, grab or brawler. Karla is a similar but much better choice for 10K more you get one more movement, the ability to pass the ball, a better unique skill that improves dauntless once per game and swap frenzy and thick skull for dodge and leap up.
    Guffle Pusmaw (not released when you did your video) should be in the worst 5 star players: His special skill is unlikely to be of use ever. Bloaters are higher strength with disturbing presence for 35k less so better in blocks. So his use in a game is is as a ball carrier for which Hakflem is a much better choice for 30K more. Pestigors in Nurgle teams as ball carriers compared to him have one more movement and plus 1 passing, no loner skill although don't have the 1 in 6 chance to stop a block action from foul appearance. The monstrous mouth ability is not that likely to be used for catches on a non-passing team but may occasionally stop strip ball being used. However Pestigors also cost 105k less and as soon as one of them gets one skill you can make up for not having monstrous mouth/foul appearance by giving them a ball carrier skill such as sure hands. I don't think just having a price drop would make him worthwhile therefore I think more skills are needed before a price change, skills that might fit his theme of fat, strong Nurgle team member with big mouth might be projectile vomit, regeneration, decay, iron hard skin, disturbing presence, thick skull, stand firm, juggernaut, mighty blow, wrestle and tackle and if continues to be developed as ball carrier route then skills such as: sure hands, nerves of steel, safe pair of hands, defensive, strip ball and fend might be appropriate options.
    Roxanna is just outside of worst 5 star players. She used to be great but as leap is not what it once was and no longer able to be taken by Amazons and pass and agility are separate stats now she is not very good for a huge 270k cost. Her frenzy and juggernaut are wasted on a player strength 3 with no block as you don't want to be normally blocking with her. Her special skill is rubbish also. So with 8 movement, amazing 1+ agility, leap and dodge she then becomes a catcher/runner however this is not really needed on a high movement and agility elf team. Although another use with frenzy and juggernaut could perhaps alternatively be a quick surfing threat. I think her skills should be adjusted to make just a runner or a surfing threat and her cost adjusted accordingly. Which skills would depend on which options/role would be chosen.
    Perhaps just missing out on being in the worst 5 is Willow Rosebud 150k for movement 5, strength 4 and only combat skill dauntless. Not a great blocker so likely to be better choices for star players or other use of cash. Her stats seem to fit her dryad theme so maybe her skills or cost should be reviewed. Those that may fit the dryad theme might be: regeneration, extra arms (branches), tackle, wrestle, prehensile tail (roots), take root, arm bar, break tackle, grab or stand firm.
    Not technically a star player but can end up playing in the game if lots of injuries/short on subs so perhaps should be considered with them: Bugman. His Bugman XXXXXX is not as effective as a keg which is half the price as Bugman (although his beer in lore is meant to be the best), giving him a better keg, drunkard and pick-me-up skills would fit his character and his price needs changing as never taken by teams.
    Therefore my worst 5 (some were not about when you made your list so it would be good to see an updated video) are: 5 - Barik 4 - Guffle 3 - Grim 2 - Gretchen 1 - Zzarg.

  • @JotunnRedbeard
    @JotunnRedbeard 2 роки тому +1

    As a lover of undead, I feel like I need to come to the defence of Frank and Gretchen. I have no arguments, save for that I love them and how dare you critique them with reasonable points, FOR SHAME! 😂😂

  • @davidbowman2501
    @davidbowman2501 2 роки тому

    What I find disappointing about Frank is that he seems like a star player big guy that should be one that just gets in the fray and takes a beating and dishes it back out. With Break Tackle it seems like they want him to be able to dodge away to blitz or something. One of those juggernaut star players would have been better for juggernaut.

  • @justinvombaur1621
    @justinvombaur1621 2 роки тому

    Scylla and Max's "favored of the blood god" just means that only khorne teams can take them, so no more nurgle teams with scylla

  • @dark1stknight555
    @dark1stknight555 2 роки тому

    it doesn't surprise me that 2 of your 5 are necro star players
    we couldn't afford them most of the time anyway
    but we picked necro for the wolves so we're only ever going to take cheney
    necro teams need all the help with the ball after losing wights
    wraiths are fun though
    took me long enough to afford the positionals in the league I play in :'(

  • @alexsabini7702
    @alexsabini7702 2 роки тому

    Comes down to the purpose they are there to fill. Are they a blitzer, if they don't have block, useless. Scorer without enough movement and agi, useless. Big guy is how much for how much strength, 250k for str 5, useless.
    Idea for top 5. Top 5 mercenary builds :)

  • @Erik78Johansson
    @Erik78Johansson 2 роки тому +2

    So if you make it a top ten list i guess... Thorsson Stoutmead, Grashnak Balckhoof, Roxanna Darknail, Willow Rosebark and Scyla Anfingrimm would make the list, beacuse they are not the best out there. :/

    • @Gitsy18
      @Gitsy18 2 роки тому

      While Thorsonn and Willow I can get behind, not sure about the others. Having used Grashnak and Scyla a number of times, I would need to disagree. Grashnak has a negatrait, true but that MA6 and Str6, Blitz 7 with frenzy is phenomenal when managed correctly, especially vs str3 heavy bashers. Scyla too is an awesome can opener for just 200k to tear up AV10+.
      Roxy is mad expensive and very fragile but she can perform well with caution.

  • @robertlove4079
    @robertlove4079 2 роки тому

    I THINK WILLow Rosebark is worst than Barik. A Str 4 with Dauntless, Side Step and Thick Skull Loner 4+ for 150K no Block no Tackle no Guard no Juggernaut that only Elves can take. What roll does she do?? How does she help the Elves??? At Lease Barik has Move 6 Str 3 Sure Hands and Pass with 3+ Now with Cannoner. He can at least fill a need on a Halfling Team for 80k. He can even make a 4+ long pass with a RR. I know he still has Secret Weapon which is Stupid hopefully it get changed again in the Next FAQ.

  • @eriksjogren800
    @eriksjogren800 2 роки тому

    Thanks

  • @sbai4319
    @sbai4319 2 роки тому +1

    And Gretchen Wachter cheers.....

  • @OmegaDestroyer99
    @OmegaDestroyer99 2 роки тому

    Given how bad Gretchin is, do you think whoever designed her actually plays Blood Bowl?

    • @Ads.D
      @Ads.D 2 роки тому +1

      I think most likely is they gave her what they thought were all 'ghostly' skills, then just used the mercenaries costing tables and thought job done 🤦🏻‍♂️

    • @OmegaDestroyer99
      @OmegaDestroyer99 2 роки тому +1

      The price is pure insanity.

  • @tonk84
    @tonk84 2 роки тому

    Just asking Ben, is Gretchen a ghost? 😇

  • @GigaSchnitzel
    @GigaSchnitzel Рік тому

    i very much disagree with frank, very good big guy for the undead teams and the model is fucking awsome

  • @melissasoto9902
    @melissasoto9902 2 роки тому

    The worst Star players of each region would be cool.. !!

  • @stonem0013
    @stonem0013 Рік тому

    lol Akorn costs 80k and has better capacity at cage busting

  • @itsallfunandgames723
    @itsallfunandgames723 2 роки тому +1

    There's some interesting overlap here between most recently designed Star Players and worst Star Players.

  • @carthagegaming5545
    @carthagegaming5545 2 роки тому +1

    Skrog is kinda a bloodspawn without a negatrait. Kinda depends how much you value not having the worst negatrait in the game (Unchanneled Fury).
    If you 'build a spawn' from a Bloodseeker, you drop 1 AV for 1 ST so 70k. 180, take claws and MB = 220.
    Oh wait Snowpelt doesn't have frenzy? Nvm he sucks.