Should I Take Out a Student Loan for Law School?
Вставка
- Опубліковано 1 січ 2021
- Should I Take Out a Student Loan for Law School?
Say goodbye to debt forever. Start Ramsey+ for free: bit.ly/35ufR1q
Visit the Dave Ramsey store today for resources to help you take control of your money! goo.gl/gEv6Tj
Did you miss the latest Ramsey Show episode? Don’t worry-we’ve got you covered! Get all the highlights you missed plus some of the best moments from the show. Watch debt-free screams, Dave Rants, guest interviews, and more!
Want to watch FULL episodes of The Ramsey Show? Make sure to go to The Ramsey Show (Full Episodes) at: ua-cam.com/users/TheRamseySh...
Check out the show at 4pm EST Monday-Friday or anytime on demand. Dave Ramsey and his co-hosts talking about money, careers, relationships, and how they impact your life. Tune in to The Ramsey Show and experience one of the most popular talk radio shows in the country!
Ramsey Network (Subscribe Now!)
• The Ramsey Show (Highlights):
ua-cam.com/users/TheRamseySh...
• The Ramsey Show (Full Episodes): ua-cam.com/users/TheRamseySh...
• The Dr. John Delony Show: ua-cam.com/users/JohnDelony?...
• The Rachel Cruze Show: ua-cam.com/users/RachelCr...
• Anthony ONeal: ua-cam.com/users/aonealmi...
• The Ken Coleman Show: ua-cam.com/users/TheKenColem...
• The Christy Wright Show: ua-cam.com/users/ChristyWrig...
• EntreLeadership: ua-cam.com/users/entreleader...
Say goodbye to debt forever. Start Ramsey+ for free: bit.ly/35ufR1q
If lawyers and doctors didn't take out student loans we literally wouldn't have any doctors or lawyers.
They said that about dentists, pharmacists psychologists etc. Guess what? There's one on every block of America. Translation? Means too many of them. Driving wages down from an economic stand point.
@@JK20239 facts
College tuitions have skyrocketed over the past thirty years and a LOT of the costs aren't related to paying the professors or providing a better education. Today, adjunct professors and those without tenure get paid peanuts to teach at most schools. The big money is going to bloated bureaucracies, overly-large departments and lavish benefits for those at the top. The students are just a means to the schools' profit-making ends. Guaranteed student loans subsidized by the federal government and taxpayers have just added fuel to the raging tuition fire. In the end the biggest losers are the students who graduate with mountains of debt that they can't repay with the meager salaries offered if they are lucky enough to land a job. On the other hand, I've never known a poor plumber.
@@justinacase2623 He also didn't end up with a good job either.
@@JK20239 Say that to taxi drivers, everybody is a taxi driver nowadays.
Robert, my wife is a lawyer so she has had to do this and the amount of work required to get a law degree, it is one of the hardest degrees to work through and requires 110% of your focus every single day. Holding down a part-time job and trying to get a law degree at the same time might be possible for a small number of hyper-focused people but for most it is just going to be too much.
There are plenty part-time law programs around the country meant for people to work at the same time. They usually take 4 years instead of 3 though.
Corbin is correct about the part-time thing. Anyone wanting to be a full-time law student is prohibited from working in their first year.
@@corbingover2260 I am sure there are but law is one of those professions that requires your total commitment.
Eventually you are going to finish that degree and "hopefully" pass the bar and then you are going to have to go for your first paralegal job in a real firm and you will be up against 100+ other candidates that may have gone to prestigious college's and may have finished with honours and all you have is a night course at a community college.
@@ryant2568 Being a lawyer and a paralegal are two different things. Lawyers don't become paralegals after law school - they become associates at a firm usually. You can be a paralegal with a high school education. Likewise, there are no community colleges that offer JD's. That's not a thing. These are real law schools that are endorsing a different path to a JD (a 4 year route instead of a 3 year). Georgetown University, a tier 1, top 14, law school offers a part-time program and the degree is exactly the same. No employer would be able to tell the difference.
@@ryant2568 Are you sure your wife is a lawyer - or is she a paralegal? They are different things = like the difference between being a doctor and a nurse. Lawyers don't take night courses at community colleges to get a "paralegal job"
$15k won't pay for living expenses for 3 years of law school
agree, maybe a year or two.
Living expenses= food. Not rent.
@@eara8426 hard to live if you don't have a roof over your head.
Dave would probably disagree with my decision, but I’m currently on track to leave law school with about 20k in total student loans to cover my living expenses. I made that decision because if I had not gone to law school full time it would have meant losing my $60,000 a year full tuition scholarship. I don’t regret my decision at all, as I feel it was the smartest decision for my circumstances.
Congrats on that scholarship
Yeah, Dave really doesn’t understand the law school problems right now. This guy should take a year off to study and retake the LSAT. Full ride scholarships at T100 are not too difficult to get. Scholarships are not offered in part time programs, and even fewer law schools offer part time programs.
20 is not bad with a aw degree as long as you start attacking it right away
I took out student loans for college and didn't do well but what people have now is crazy from the beginning.
I do think that in some limited cases, student loans are not horrible. Keep them low, only federal ones not private, and work as much as you can.
Yours is a case where I think it is okay. Especially where a scholarship with a high value has a continuous gpa requirement, it might be difficult to maintain it while working.
20k sounds like a good limit though.
@@grcxb6 Also,. If he took another year off to study/work, he might be able to be in a better spot financially as well. Less debt, more saved.
My law school’s tuition is $60k/year. In 1960, it was $400 (roughly $4k in today’s dollars). Even after accounting for inflation, it has risen 15x in 60 years. This is unsustainable. Dave should know better than to tell someone to just cash-flow something that isn’t cash-flowable. Law schools today are offering great scholarships, but that doesn’t mean you should go to any law school that hands you a full-ride. I guarantee you that paying $150k in loans for a Top 14 law school degree will give you a much better career than going to a terrible law school on a full ride. Dave may not check where his lawyers went to school, but law firms, government, and judges (for clerkships) absolutely do.
Late to the party, but I am a law student, and this is 1000000% truth
So how much student loan debt do you have from law school?🤔
Does Mr Ramsey think working part time can pay for law school tuition + living expenses? There is no winning in this system for most of the working class!
Plus many law schools won't even let you work for the first year!
I don’t think he realizes how expensive a good law school actually costs, you can’t work part time and pay $60,000 a year for tuition
@The Dave Ramsey Show oh for a sec I thought it was the real Ramsey account lol
Law school isn't for working-class people. Never has been. The only working-class people going to law school better be on full scholarship.
@@jeanpierrerideout7560 Yes it is. You just have to go into debt. Education and houses are worth going into debt for.
You can’t work and go to a top law school. This advice is bs....they should have asked the caller what law school does he go to. That’s a better indicator of what answer should be given. You can’t cash flow certain professions.
Of course you can and many have. It's just too difficult in your mind to comprehend.
@@Daniellihomes this is very dishonest. Not everyone can stay home with mom and dad for free while saving. If you have to take care of yourself your savings rate per credit will have you on a 15 year trajectory -if that. That’s not practical. This is coming from someone who worked two jobs throughout college for undergrad. Grad school is a different beast for pharmacy medicine and law. They actually make you sign a contract limiting how many hours you are allowed to work.
@@andyj1394 top law schools only because the top 20 schools in the country consistently have high job placements with over 80k in median salary. “State school” and “local school” does not work if you are trying to be a corporate litigator or top in house counselor at a company.
@@_HoneyBadger thank you for having critical thinking skills
@@_HoneyBadger I haven't heard of anyone making 450K/year call in ever and I watch every day.
Don't think people realize that is not possible for everybody. If you're an A student, you might be able to do law school while working part time. However if you struggle to obtain good grades, you won't be able to do both studying while working part time.
It's possible. Just depends if you're willing to work hard enough.
@@christophercarrigg3775 You could also choose less expensive schools, or work a full time job to save a bit of tuition prior to enrolling in school.
@@christophercarrigg3775 flying (without machinery, just naturally) is possible for us humans, you just have to be willing to work hard enough
@@georgemendez6760 humans can fly without machinery 😂🤤😂. You're on UA-cam how do you not know this
@@christophercarrigg3775 that's what your comment sounds like to me.... I actually have worked full time while working a job.... its not possible to do both (assuming your class work is actually rigorous)
College tuitions have skyrocketed over the past thirty years and a LOT of the costs aren't related to paying the professors or providing a better education. Today, adjunct professors and those without tenure get paid peanuts to teach at most schools. The big money is going to bloated bureaucracies, overly-large departments and lavish benefits for those at the top. The students are just a means to the schools' profit-making ends. Guaranteed student loans subsidized by the federal government and taxpayers have just added fuel to the raging tuition fire. In the end the biggest losers are the students who graduate with mountains of debt that they can't repay with the meager salaries offered if they are lucky enough to land a job. On the other hand, I've never known a poor plumber.
Tuition jumped because the government guaranteed the loans. Get the government out and tuitions will drop drastically.
@@jimroscovius I think you're right. If the government didn't guarantee the loans it is highly unlikely that the banks or even the colleges would loan money to students for sky-high tuitions, especially for areas of study that are not likely to lead to a job.
@@1notgilty Exactly. It needs to go back to the way it was, where the Feds guaranteed only those loans that were approved by the banks. Yes, maybe fewer would go to college - that's life. But tuitions would go WAY down, and more people would be able to afford the lower tuitions, maybe even without a loan at all.
I'm an adjunct and you are right on. I would love to go fulltime, but colleges aren't hiring.
And then to make matters worse they have the nerve to come back to you after you graduate and ask for donations. Like you act like I didn't just go into debt to go to your school, or at minimum pay all this money to attend your university...
I have a bad feeling about this guy in law school, if he called Dave Ramsey and wasn't even able to do the basic research about Dave Ramsey and debt. He has a loan on a car that's over 50% what he makes in a year, strike one. He has a bunch of savings despite being in debt, strike 2. And he called FREAKING DAVE RAMSEY to get advice about taking out a loan. That's not even a strike. That's something that gets you ejected from the game and banned from the league.
I like Dave and his advice but he's living in a baby boomer bubble when it comes to student loans. He lived in a time where you could work and cash flow college. The problem is the cost of college has skyrocketed since the baby boomers were young and wages have been stagnant for decades. They didn't answer his question about how he should pay for the entirety of his education. If you take and pay for one course at time like they said, you're going to be going to law school for a very long time.
I’m glad to see you know that’s the truth. You can definitely cash flow undergrad if you have supportive family and do community college and live with them and then stay in state. But you can’t for professional schools.
Well said, well said.
I'm pretty sure with a BA he can work for a while in court while gaining some experience and saving some money for utilities and other expenses, so he can take some loans only for his law degree.
This is so false. You can get scholarships based off your GPA and LSAT. It’s very very common if you do well on LSAT to get this. Every law school is required to publish a 509 by the ABA. In it, you see first hand how many people get full rides. If he’s not going to a T-14, he can easily accomplish this. There’s an entire LSAT prep company called the LSAT Demon that is devoted to helping kids NOT PAY FOR LAW SCHOOL. He destiny have to pay for his degree, he just needs to work hard enough on the LSAT
Do people honestly have 160k saved up for law school? It's great if there's savings but that's not realistic for majority of people, hence the $1.7 trillion student debt epidemic as mentioned. Granted, there are cheap options for Tier 3-4 law schools but if you're looking for return on investment, you're trying for at least a Tier 2 ranked law school which aren't cheap.
Have you heard of the term, barrier to entry? Think about the reason why people want to become lawyers in the first place and you have your answer.
I don’t think student loans are inherently bad, there’s certain professions where you may need to use them like becoming a lawyer or doctor. The most important thing is to try to take out as little as possible and have a plan to pay them back as quickly as possible.
I disagree I went to law school for free because I had a high lsat score and you could very easily cash flow medical school if you went to the right program and saved for a few years prior.
@Jswirv I never said work part time? Work in the healthcare field for 3-4 years making 60k take your Mcat in that time period live with your parents and go a state medical school where tuition is 25k a year
@Jswirv most people who attend college and can attend medical school are by definition privileged. It cost almost 3k to apply to med school between the application the Mcat the interviews ect. The vast majority of med students comes for upper income backgrounds. What healthcare jobs pay well umm medical sales rep lol which is what my sister did for 3 years before attending med school. 300k lol if you’re a surgeon sure and if you pass your boards and if you can get one of the handful of residency spots and be picked afterwards. Becoming a doctor doesn’t start with admission into medical school it starts 7 years later when you’re hired so you can’t project I high income that you aren’t guaranteed. The reality is if you’re willing to grind and willing to sacrifice you can save up the money to go to medical school without taking out massive debt. It’s easier to take out debt and go to whatever school you get into but in the words of Dave Ramsey broke doctors lol doctors are broke for minimum 10 years
I agree, I think in certain situations, it is alright to incur debt. Education, starting a business, purchasing rental property are some examples.
For the most part, I agree with most of Dave Ramsey’s advice but I believe there are going to be times that will require some financing
@@9doggie12 theres no realistic way a person can cash flow law school without a substantial schoalrship. For example a part time state law school is a diff story but harvard? Yale? Those schools cost 90k a year and for that to be worth it u need to maintain your grades. To exceed in law school u need to put in a good 50-60 hours a week studying. Doing that while working full time doesn't work. Going to a t14 is an investment that comes with sacrifice.
Unless I got into a top 15 law school, I wouldn't even consider being a lawyer too financially risky.
Exactly! Students of top law schools are not only paying for their chosen school, but they are also paying to build connections while in school.
Well the trick is to go to the cheapest accredited law school possible.
@@mattcollins4550 The problem with that is that the prestige isn't as high and you won't be able to attract the types of jobs that T15 schools get recruited for (Supreme Court clerkships for the crème-de-la-crème, or big law jobs, for instance).
Sure, if you want to do small-town law and do real estate/family law as a sole proprietor, then go to whatever rinky-dink law school that you can. It's easier being "successful" in law and getting into a "prestigious" firm with a larger paycheque if you go to a name-brand school.
@@justinacase2623 I'm just stating what I would do, if I wanted to become a lawyer. Obviously there are other routes to be successful.
Prestige of a top 10 matters if you're going to work at a large firm.
MANY lawyers make a good living working for themselves or at smaller firms or even in other positions that didn't go to a top tier school.
Just what florida needs another lawyer.
Not only Florida, but the country.
At $300 a hour we more supply florida need less cops, less hate.
@@sunnydays4966 What's that for to do with anything?
@@jimroscovius more lawyer to pick from will increase supply and bring cost down. It call supply /demand. Lest jerks and cops out there less need for lawyer.
Trust me, there’s work for them down here 😂
I seriously regret my student loans. If only I could go back in time!
What kind of degree did you get?
@@erikrohr4396 I have a Bachelors in Psychology with a Business Admin minor and then I got my Master’s in Indistrial/Organizational Psychology. Grad school was free, undergrad was not 😕
@@Teannaschannel Those are far more advanced degrees than I ever got - a mere Associates in Electronics Technology. Why the regret? Career hasn't taking off?
@@erikrohr4396 career is doing great, however, I could have found a better way to pay for college if I had put in more effort. I never regretted GOING to college. I regret the debt.
@@Teannaschannel Sounds like a pretty good situation, better than most. How would you do it differently if you could go back in time?
Currently a 3L finishing law school at UND. I'm top 10 in the class and am cash flowing school.
We saved before I went. I worked occasionally during school and worked overtime during summers, applied for every scholarship, and tightened our lifestyle to nothing. DO NOT WORK YOUR FIRST YEAR. If you do, you will have trouble. Save up until you can cash flow and live the first year. After that, you can get a part time job and be fine.
Law school is very intense and a ton of work. Be sire you are ready. Money problems will cause unnecessary stress. Stick with the babysteps and pay cash.
Thanks. Was worried about debt in law school
*If you can avoid loans then you'll do better in the long run* ❤️❤️
Why is everything so all or nothing? Try something in the middle: work and save for living expenses. Take out a loan only for tuition and books. Also, try to work during vacations or between semesters.
My macroeconomics professor told us NEVER go to law school. No jobs. Very saturated market. Need to be grandfathered in.
This whole thing is silly and almost no one in the comments knows the law school process. He should retake the LSAT and score high enough for a full ride or close to full ride at a lower ranked school - unless he gets into a T-14. I’d take the loans out for HYS but beyond that it’s silly. Law schools offer full rides to top students. He can also go to school part time and work full time, as there are many programs that offer that as well.
This is the right answer
@@dwill9256 It is. Its baffling and honestly embarrassing that the caller didn’t do his research - but most prospective law students don’t... Some schools even offer living stipends depending on the LSAT score. You don’t even need to score in the 170’s sometimes. If I were him, I’d use that savings to hire an LSAT tutor and get into a nice 160+ range and try again next cycle.
@@SW-ty8zq It always blows my mind when people want to go into extremely competitive fields yet have done 0 research. The fact he has done no research is proof he should not attend.
@@SW-ty8zq I agree. if only these other people in the comment section understood how law school works.
@S W exactly! I just completed my first semester of 1L year as an evening student while working fulltime during the day. I have a mortgage and a family and have no issues going to law school on a full ride at night with 0 student loans.
Waiting for that call: Should I take out a loan to get an economics degree?
I have an Econ degree... but didn’t take a loan out lol. Worked well for me. Decent career, no debt
Propabaly better off going more towards tech, and math with a knowledge in econ. Economics is my favorite study, but as a skill its not very useful to employers on its own. Knowledge on the basics of economics will be a great multiplier for your life in a number of ways. But the demand for people who know about the concept of supply and demand is not as high as for the people who can actually use the programs to figure out the answer.
I am studying Accounting going to school debt-free on Pell Grants and there is a bigger epidemic of business debt. Dave Ramsey points out in EntreLeadership that successful companies are [net] debt free where publicly traded corporations have to carry debt. However, companies that are not publicly traded take out tons of debt. How did that work out for them in 2020? You see, Dave Ramsey is right. Debt is nice when everything is going as planned.
@@saulgoodman2018 lol I love AOC....she's awesome
I had school loans for a Finance degree 😣 but was able to pay it off within 5 years after graduating. Thank goodness!!
Dave is right, it's 1.5 Trillion.
The first words out of Chris hogans mouth literally stole the thoughts from my brain. And now im wondering how her did that🤔🧐
How you gonna cash flow law school from delivering pizzas? 😳😬😜
I went to a decent law school. I treated it like a job -- I went in at 8 a.m. and left at 5 p.m. When I wasn't in class, I studied. But when I went home, I had a toddler to take care of. There wasn't time for a job. If I didn't have a kid, I could probably have worked. At a minimum, make sure you get summer internships that pay. If you use that money wisely, you can reduce or even eliminate the "lifestyle loans" that you need to pay your rent. Also, focus on scholarship money to reduces your costs. And you can use your law degree for other industries and make good money, too.
How do so many young law and medical students end up with little kids? If you are studying so hard and working so hard, how do you get a chance to even create them?
@@MrNeptunebob DID YOU REALLY WRITE THAT COMMENT.
SOME PEOPLE ARE MARRIED WITH KIDS IN LAW SCHOOL.
WHEN DID SHE PERSON DECIDE TO FOLLOW HER DREAMS.
LIFE IS NOT ALWAYS IN THE ORDER WE BELIEVE IT SHOULD BE IN.
HAPPY NEW YEAR
Ohhh Dave said "be nice to him" 😂😂😂
I took out 190k of student loans to pay for law school. Best decision of my life, from both career satisfaction and financial standpoints. Only do that if you are close to certain you can get a job in a big law firm (which probably means you only take out loans if you can get into one of the top 10 schools) and will be well suited enough to the job and diligent enough to stick around at a firm for 5ish years.
In all other cases, it is hard to recommend taking out significant student loans for law school.
Have you paid off your loans yet?
That's a good question 🤔☝️
Idk if I’d work while studying to be a doc or lawyer
He has $15,000 in “safe” stock that he expects to grow 33% by the fall?? Uh...
A TSLA fanboi who doesn't understand the company is insanely overvalued
in my opinion he more than likely bought in at the crash and is expecting a full recovery on the market by then which could be that 30% that the market is still down. It is possible but wishful thinking.
@@nog117 huh? The market is at all time highs
@@jpbrar20 purchasing individual stocks is different from the entire market he might be assuming 30% on his choices of individual picks.
I got in law school over 3yrs ago, but cannot go bc you cannot work during your first year of law school, and only part time going forward. No school worth going to has an evening or weekend program. As a single worker with no parental support, how on earth would I pay my rent in NYC?? Furthermore, how would I simultaneously cash flow upwards of $75k/yr on tuition? This was not good advice; I'd say live off the student loans (maybe even dorm if it's cheaper than rent) & use the $15k to either live off of after graduation while interviewing for that high paying job, or pay the interest on the student loans so they don't amoralize after graduation. Good luck to him 👍
I agree. This doesn’t work unless mommy and daddy lets you live for free. If you have parents like mine that told me to get out when I was 19, you are working two-three jobs to pay bills while finishing school. How much can you realistically save to cover 150k a year at law school?
You should really move to a place with a cheaper cost if living and go to a state law school (cheaper tuition). You should also save a bit before enrolling, so you don't have to work as much while in school. Your future self will hate your present day self if you allow go into debt over a law degree that compounds interest while you're still studying. I know ppl with a law degree that's in $200,000+ of debt who couldn't pass the bar. I know ppl who passed the bar who couldn't find employment within six months after graduation. I know a lawyer who's in $200,000+ of debt who just went out and bought a brand new $40K Mercedes (most likely a lease). Even if/when you pass the bar, do you plan to do the ten-year standard repayment plan or an income-driven repayment plan? If you choose the latter, just know interest will rack up to a stupid amount bc your payment will not be high enough to cover interest. Please don't so it. Life doesn't start, get better, or become more clarified when you graduate law school or become a lawyer. Life is fluid. People go to law school at all ages and with that they bring all types of valuable life experiences.
@@dwill9256 - Law school doesn't cost $150K. FSU is less than half that amount. Please talk to someone before making a life altering choice based on misinformation.
@@MikeThePike316 FSU is not a top law school...not even top 30....not applicable
@@dwill9256 - You sound cray. FSU is tier 1. And if you can or did get into a top 30, good for you. Go into debt for an overpriced degree. If you did not get into a top 30, you're being awfully pretentious.
If he can take federal loans amounting to less than his first years salary then yes. He should take some. If he only takes loans for tuition at an instate university and skips books and housing he would be fine to keep working part time or not at all with his nest egg. He should 100% take those loans. Otherwise he is stunting his career growth for no reason. Attempting to work full time while going to law school would also increase the odds that he fails out. The point about him failing the bar makes no sense at all. The bar is a risk he would be taking either way but at least with loans he will get there faster. Student loans can be a good bit of leverage if used correctly.
It doesn't work as beautifully crafted as you think. Before he becomes a lawyer, he needs to pass the bar as well as the character and fitness background check. You should really check your state's bar passage rate to see just how easy this is. If he passes neither, he can expect one of two things: (1) no job as a lawyer until he passes the bar; or (2) a job as a lawyer, but at a reduced salary and he has to retake the bar. Unless he plans not to work and place his loans in deferment, he will be studying while working a full time job in a demanding field. On top of that, he would be enrolled in the 10-year standard repayment plan, which goes into effect a few months after graduation. If he can't afford it, then he goes in an income-driven repayment plan. If he defers payments while he studies or go on an income-driven repayment plan, interest compounds at a stupid rate both while in school and during deferment or while in an income-driven plan (because you're making reduced payments that are not enough to cover interest). Nonetheless, he still needs to find a job. I knew one lawyer who said it took him 6 months after graduation to find a job. Let's be honest, taking out student loans always seem like a good idea, but no one ever considers their own behavior and things beyond their control. He's gonna graduate and will need a car, a place to live if he relocates, and will want to go on trips bc he "worked so hard during school." Taking out a loan will be a major setback. He's gonna need a job in an area of law that he likes at a healthy place of employment or he will slowly die on the inside. Student loans are a terrible idea.
@@MikeThePike316 You are assuming so much about him that may or may not be true. Most of the problems you've listed with him pursuing a law degree and failing the bar would be the same regardless of if he takes the loans or not. He has a considerable cash float and could sell his car for a used one. Assuming he can service his debt with a part time job until he finds work in his field, he is not set behind by a federal loan at 2.75%. Private loans with a higher interest rate are never a good idea but getting a federal loan is no different than leveraging a downpayment on a home to get your house.
@@kylesizemore2751 - These are not assumptions. That's how law school, student loans, and employment in the legal field works. The loans come due regardless of whether you pass or fail the bar. Meanwhile, interest accrues whether you're working or not, and it accrues if you make minimal payments on the income-driven repayment plan. The difference between student loans and a home loan is the asset. The value of a home increases and offsets the mortgage. Not exactly the same for education. As for the job, his salary is dictated by passing or failing the bar.
@@kylesizemore2751 actually, Mike is correct. There’s a lot more involved. Also, in state law schools are still pretty expensive.
This kid is 100% taking out a student loan to pay for school
Spot on Dave, thanks
Seems like Robert needs to consider a multitude of variables before making this decision. Location, bar pass rates, desired field of specialty, salary projections, etc.
We're talking at least $100k + interest for the three years at an in-state public law school, and then there's living expenses. So more like $150k + interest.
It's easy to be near $200k in debt within a few years of graduation, the road to debt through age 45. You have to ask yourself, why and is it worth it?
Given Robert is young, he likely wants to be a corporate lawyer at a top firm because he influenced by shows like Suits. Reality has yet to sink in that unless he is from a very rich and connected family it's just not going to happen.
If he was exceptionally gifted, he would have a full scholarship to a top 10 school and not even be calling.
Reading the title and knowing Dave's answer before hitting play.
Law school is not a part-time degree. Study as much as you can to get a good LSAT score that leads to a scholarship and less debt. I’m much better off for taking my loans and getting my career started in law. Don’t pay for prestige. A solid state school provides great value!
I don't always agree with Dave but in terms of student loans he's 100% correct. NEVER BORROW FOR COLLEGE OR GRAD SCHOOL. The debt isn't worth it anymore.
You must be a boomer..
@@dwill9256, no I'm not a boomer. Besides that it's the truth. Debt for diploma = B.R.O.K.E. If you wish to prove Dave wrong then go out and and borrow $100,000 for a "college degree" and see where it gets you.
I agree in most circumstances, but there are certain degrees that have excellent return on investment, that are simply too expensive for people to finance their way through. What you're advocating for is delaying grad school for years and years in order to be able to save up what, 200K to be able to pay their way through it? That's not tenable. These high paying professions like physician, CRNA, lawyer, etc, just pay off the debt within a year after graduating and don't delay five years to save up to finance your way through. Save up as much as you can to decrease the debt burden, but otherwise, your advice is kind of silly and extreme.
The caller in this vid needs to seriously think about accruing more debt, especially since he's already made poor decisions like buying a 17K car on 32K year salary. He needs to know that he'll be able to get a return on investment and pay off whatever debt he's got quickly once graduated, something not as guaranteed in law as say medicine. Dave and Chris were right in that aspect. But to just say, "no student loans whatsoever, doesn't matter if it's grad school or not." I simply don't understand that. 99% of people won't be able to save up 150K for grad school.
@@JeffreyQProductions, my thinking is kind of silly? Apparently you don't live in the world I live. Your implying that education will always pay off. In years past that was mostly true. However that's not the case anymore. I'm a big believer in education but not if it requires debt. NO ONE has job security any more. NO ONE. I don't care how much education is involved. You have to protect yourself by living debt free. Call me what you want but I was in school long enough to be a doctor and a lawyer and I borrowed for school just like everyone else and what do I have to show for it? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. So don't preach at me about this BS that the debt is always worth it. It's not. If I could go back I would have never borrowed a penny for college.
@@JeffreyQProductions I think that is the point bad decisions will just continue. My friend is a pharmacist who graduated with 200K in student loans, bought a house 350K the moment she got a job than a 70K BMW and buys thousands of dollars worth of shoes and purses. She only makes 120k. It just never stops.
I am not as hard-lined as Dave when it comes to studet loans. I believe that there are circumstances that allow for student loans. The degree needs to be worth it(marketable and in demand), and you have to have demonstrated an academic ability to achieve the degree. In other words, there has to be a high probability that you will complete the degree, secure a job that requires the degree, and pay off the student loan within two years. If all three of those are a yes, I'm good with that. I graduated in 1993 with a BS in Electrical Engineering and had $15,000 in student loan debt. Paid it off quickly with my first job that paid $30,000. Fifteen years ago obtained my Master's (cash flowed it). Currently work for the Government with a six figure income, Roth IRA, TSP (401k), and an annuity waiting for me when I retire (early). I'll never regret getting that student loan.
If a loan is what separates you from a high paying lucrative career, then it is absolutely worth it.
a medical student failed out
I have worked with two individuals who worked full time and attended law school at night. It can be done. Bonus, when they passed the Bar, our company had a job waiting in the General Counsel's organization.
Chris' mind is gonna be blown when he finds out its 1.7 trillion not billion lol
If possible avoid debt at any cost.
Fortunately law schools offer large scholarships to attract top students. If his LSAT score is low, he should retake the test and delay law school. If he knows which state/city he wants to work in, a reputable local lower ranked school might offer a full ride. The T14 only works out if your family is rich or you’re okay with big law. Part time law school programs typically don’t even offer scholarships.
Part time does!!! You have to look at the 509's. But either way, go part-time INSTATE unless its Georgetown... but even then....
I read the title and really laughed out loud!!
Me too lol
Why?
@@lavaboy1565 Because Dave would NEVER recommend that someone take out debt. People who follow him know the answer before even watching the video.
In all fairness, this guy is new to Dave Ramsey.
Love how dave is just doing something else
That’s how you know how used he is with these calls 😂
Great content Dave!
Don't know about this. Basically saying only the rich can go to law school then regular people can't be lawyers and obtain wealth. Go, pass the bar, pay off the debt
Lol this dude, “I’m hoping my 15k investments will grow to 20k by the time I start” yeah good luck with 33 percent returns in a couple of months while still managing risk lol
I agree that things may not work out and you may be stuck with big loans. This happened to me with medical school. I was tremendously blessed to get a cushy position as a corporate doctor in research. However I personally know of people with $500k in loans who could not get into residency and only make about $50k now. It’s a huge financial risk but I know if you feel it’s your calling it’s hard to resist.
1:39 - "It might take a little longer". Not really, when you consider it'll take decade(s) to pay off a loan. So for him to work nights as he goes to school, then leaving without a loan, IS the quickest way to get it done.
Appreciate all the advice!!
I took out a loan for grad school for a two year program and it paid off in the long run. I would have went to a much less expensive school but that one was extremely hard to get into.
That’s nice though that law school offers that as an option to go part time so you can work some. I know pharmacy school, medical school, and dental school don’t Offer that so unfortunately the only way to pay for those degrees outside of family money or possibly military is student loans. Remover graduate/professional school can be 60 hour a week job on its own.
Taking out debt, and delaying entry to the labor market. The "debt and delay" model. Popular, and scary.
Once again the answer is no!
Honest question, could he continue to work for 2-3 years to save up? Or would he need to re-take the tests? His wage is really low, but I’m guessing he could pickup another job to supplement that 30,000 he’s making. That’s what I would do if I felt passionate enough about becoming a lawyer if it was possible
You can go to law school P/T at night but it won't be at the top law schools.
He'll be earning enough to payback that loan in 1yr. Wy make his time miserable in law school instead of focusing on school? Stupid advice!!
This is the law school student loan trap, which my ex-wife fell into. In fact, the only thing that she says that she hates more than me, is her law school (Georgetown). Now l am not sure that she really hates her law school more than me, but she has a level of debt that she will NEVER be able to pay off. Don't be that person, because law schools make big promises but payout like a lottery.
I think GULC leads the league in disgruntled alumni. Class size is way too big and they get so many applications that they're seemingly never worried about tuition inflation scaring people off.
It seems a lot of people are taking out student loans for housing costs. Unless there are drastic circumstances, or your desperately poor, I don’t know why parents do not let kids live at home while they are in school
If you are that passionate about becoming a lawyer than move to a state/ city where law school is cheaper. For instance Med school is cheaper in Texas
I would recommend he gets some powerscore books and study like crazy. If he gets a 165 I’m pretty sure that he can go absolutely anywhere in Florida for free. You could become a paralegal if you don’t pass the bar. I personally know a paralegal that makes 70000 a year. Good luck 👍🏼
For the love of god if you care at all about your future...DO NOT GO TO LAW SCHOOL! Lawyers are already becoming obsolete and you can get statistically better legal advice from a computer than a human. Use your intelligence for something that is just as fulfilling and can support you financially.
Sure if you want a debt that will take you 15 to 20 years at the least to pay off.
Come on, now. You know what the answer is...edit: haha Hogan took the words out of my mouth!
Unless you are planning to be a lawyer - and not just looking for another thing to add to your resume - don't do it. I know plenty of people with law degrees that are working in jobs that they could have had without the time, effort and expense of getting a law degree. It might have helped them get the interview, but unless you want to work in a law firm, don't bother. An MBA would be a better use of time and expense.
How would people afford schools if they don't take out loans? Like people going to become nurses and doctors
My sister is 28 and 350k in debt from law school/cmu. She is a state appointed attorney right now making like 48k a year. I’m 29 and I’ve got about 5k in debt and make about 50k a year. Granted some day she will make more than me but not for a LONG time
*state-appointed attorney. You just forgot the hyphen there. Yes, that doesn't seem like she got the best deal. I would only recommend taking out loans for law school if you go to like a top 10 law school and you scored really high on the LSAT. If not, it's most likely just not going to be a good proposition (financially speaking of course - not to take away from your sister's work or profession, but financially, it was a dumb move on her part).
@April_Spring2015 well that would be awesome!!! I’ll let her know!
There are a lot of sharks in the sea. My ex-wife was a legal secretary and worked for a one man law firm for many years. I'll just leave it there.
I know of two young women who attained masters and phd degrees on student loans. They sacrificed for many years to get them paid off before embarking on their livelihood.
Good luck!
Hoping your stocks increase 30% is not a plan. What if they go down 30%, like they did in March 2020?
Dave should I use student
loans for my MFA in
Left Handed Puppetry? 🤔
I paid for undergrad & grad school.. thought maybe I could use as a tax write off. Nope, I make too much yet had I taken a student loan I could write off the interest. Is it crazy to now want to take a student loan for law school?
Come on Dave. It all depends on where you're going to school. If you're going to an Ivy League law school taking out a loan might not be such a bad idea. Dave is always NO LOANS NO MATTER WHAT. That's a mistake sometimes.
if he was going to an ivy league school, he would be the most humble 24 year old student I have met in my life.
@@jeanpierrerideout7560 Why do you say that?
@@Essays4College an ivy league student/grad will ALWAYS tell you within 1 minute of meeting them. It's an unwritten rule. My wife introduced herself as "Harvard" when we first met.
@@jeanpierrerideout7560 ...maybe verbally but writing MBA on a resume or signature is still pretty tacky.
*Tay Roc voice*: Don't do that
Terminator voice: "Don't do that!"
Honestly, the single best thing you can do to be a lawyer with little to no debt is kill it on the LSAT and your gpa and then apply to schools where your score(s) are above their 75th percentile. Most schools will give you $$$ and even let you negotiate for more if you have great offers elsewhere.
Bingo!
Honestly why do people ask the same question expecting a different answer...
He's new.
That's the definition of Insanity
Because some people are new...
Thankfully there is no career that can't be cash flowed. You just have to think more critically and not take the lazy way out of student loans.
Medical school. Who is going to work through that?
Nope, you shouldn't Robert!
Disagree on working and going to law school.
That being said why be a lawyer? There is a surplus of lawyers and the debt you get into is a nightmare
Markets are saturated everywhere. Ppl been using this tired line for years. You can never have too many good lawyers. Law school tuition is not as high as you think. People choose places with astronomical tuition rates.
@@MikeThePike316 There aren't that many good lawyers and most people can't afford a simple 1000 dollar emergency bill how can they afford a good lawyer?
@@ninjablack4347 - That's the running joke. Good ≠ expensive. Plus, pro bono if the lawyer accepts the case as such, and community legal aid.
What accredited decent law schools can you make 40k a year and pay your way through school? Decent schools cost 30k or more a year to attend.
Alot of ppl who haven't been through law school assume they know the work load when in reality they have no clue. Law school and undergrad are two different beast.
I would never take out loans to go to a law school lower than a T14
Exactly but some people in here don’t understand how prestige driven the law profession is and reverting to the same “ go to state school and deliver pizzas at night”. Bs
Guys! Just google: “FBC fund”! You will go nuts!
Honestly , he’s right & he’s wrong . Law degree just like every college degree isn’t worth what it used to . You can fail the exam and you can graduate with no job Offers . Then it’s not worth it . But the reality is that law school is 25 k at least . Some going up to 50 k which is easy 75,000 to 150,000 sometimes more . There are limits to working . He’s right you can take two classes a year or be part time and work but most of the
Time your grades suffer . Which isn’t good or you can’t get as good of a. Internship because you have to work . The advice should have been to save up as much as possible & only loan what’s necessary. I’m doing a gap year to save for law school currently & knock out some debt .
I wish there was a way to self teach with books and learning on the job which could gain the piece of paper that we pay a fortune for when we go to college. It is such a rip off.
I do too. I am interested in psychology but I want to get the same knowledge as a psychology major gets but I don't want to go into debt for a "useless degree'. Any way to learn what I am supposed to learn for my own knowledge? Is there a way to get a question to Dave and Dr. John other than calling (when would I call?)?
If you are sick and need a surgery, would you go to a doctor that was "self-taught" ?
Would you agree to get on a plane knowing the pilot was self-taught and decided to learn on the job ?
@@perotal I think with pilots they go to flight school but they are trained to fly the type of airliner by the airline, so I guess that is kind of self taught. That is, not in a university.
1.7 Trillion $ loan not billion Logan
Dont go unless you have a STEM degree or get into a top ten law school. The higher your law school ranks, the easier it will be for you to find a job. If you have a stem degree you can do patent litigation which is always in demand.
Your class rank is also critical. Even at a top ten school. Unless you rank in the top half, it will be difficult to land a top paying job. At at 2nd or 3rd tier law school, you will need to be in the top ten percent or even one of the top 3 or 4 students. And when you graduate, be prepared to work 60-70 hours a week.
Please, please, please stop with the "STEM is good" mantra. I got a math degree (the "M" in STEM) and finding a job is depressing. I know of math majors who are now in their 30s working in retail.
Maybe the "T" and "E" (technology, engineering, respectively) are worth the hype, but not everything that falls under STEM is decent, even if it's a "rigorous" major like math.
I mentioned STEM in the context of its use with a law degree. Not how useful the degree is in itself. It was also mentioned in the context of being able to do patent work. Obviously, not all STEM degrees will qualify you to do patent work, but it was easier to say STEM than list all the degrees that do qualify you for patent work.
Sorry you are having trouble finding work in your chosen field of study.
if he does not pass the bar at the end he could always work for CNN as an expert
The dirty little secret here is that all three of Dave's children went to school on Dave's dime but not everyone has Dave for a father. 90% of this issue can be solved with personal responsibility and not taking out loans, agreed. But don't assume that everyone has the same starting position on this planet.
What you don't realize is that most lawyers and doctors back in the day came from wealthy families.
@@eara8426 Bingo! Why is this so difficult for people to comprehend? The only non-wealthy people that should be going to law school are people on full scholarships (and only to selective or ivy league med/law schools)
@@jeanpierrerideout7560 that's it. Either your parents are rich, or you come from a modest family but you are extremely smart which can land you a full scholarship. And before anyone gets mad, yes you can be rich and very smart too.
@Michael Munster Yes. Not much has changed since medieval times.
@Michael Munster I never said it is right, but that's how it works.
If it was only 1.7 billion in student loan debt we would be ok. Unfortunately it’s not
There's a glut of lawyers. We don't need you.
my ONLY debt is 17k of stupid in the driveway....
Yes. There is no way you are going to get a job and save up a ton of money to be able to pay it off. You'll be a lawyer in your mid 30s!
I know this is old but please tell me how you can go to Law school or medical school debt free. smh.
It would be worth it if ur going to schools like harvard
Would be better off taking out a loan for some financial therapy.
Ok this didn't do anything to help the caller.
Dave is both right and wrong here.
Taking out a $200k loan to go to law school is indeed foolish, UNLESS you are going to an ivy league / top 10 law school. If you can't get in to a top tier school, then your best bet is to go the least expensive school possible.
Hint: the ABA doesn't accredit part-time or night time schools.
And it is nearly impossible to have any sort of real job while in law school so yeah, unless one has rich family, a loan is almost unavoidable. Saying otherwise is either ignorant, bad advice, or just unrealistic.
You should read the ABA rules again. They absolutely accredit part-time programs. I know because I went to one.
Why are you watching this!? Read about the FBC fund and their algorithm!
How stupid do you have to be to ask "Dave Ramsey " if it's OK to take out a student loan??? SMH!