It’s October! I hope you guys are ready for some SPOOKtacular stories from the game industry (*thunder crash & lighting strike*). Oooh! Leave the lights on… things might get.. spoOoOoky.. Mwahahaha!
Oh my God no wonder the reboot so bad if volition was willing to lie to Deep Silver about the game being working and finished what do you think they were willing to say to the stock owners and Embrace group about the reboot especially with the idiots they have hired God I'm honestly shocked this is why the reboot is so bad I can't wait to see Mr Saints Godzilla's video next year about his NDA I wonder what volition told them about the reboot saying yes it's going to be classic good I bet the CEO doesn't even know the game looks like he probably has an early draft of the story not even what actually went in the game
The Sony Gat thing is fascinating and has so many ramifications for how decisions are made across the gaming industry to know big companies like Microsoft and Sony have the power to step down through publishers into development teams and force things into games. I wonder how many times things like this have happened
Console manufacturers have a lot of leverage. The reason a lot of big game nowadays feel consolitis is because they have been forcing the standard for decades.
Man that story about Volition Heads lying to Deep Silver is just crazy. The fact that the game released so buggy makes sense now honestly. I wouldn't be surprised if the layoffs were partly fueled by the lies...makes me wonder if anything similar happened with the reboot.
I swear one creator basically said that if the reboot didn’t do well the company basically goes bye bye lol I heard they made a profit but who really knows? Not me 🤣
I can't speak to the Special Investigation missions for agents but I've been told by more than one developer who worked on AoM that they had to fight very hard to get the agent missions into the game at all because of scope cutting that occurred early into the project. If it was indeed Deep Silver who specifically asked for the Investigations, that's baffling. Maybe if Deep Silver wanted Ubisoft "quality", they should have spent the amount of money Ubisoft does on their games.
Well, think from deep silver’s perspective: They are investing in a game that isn’t really living up to competition, so obviously even if myopically, pushed to that quality. Also consider that if what was said is true volition was openly lying to them on the state of the game.
@@cleaver3168 An another angry review of cyberpunk ignoring the even worse games that came out and were loved even if buggy. Frankly I do not see the charm in it.
Man I can see why Flippy was as ecstatic about Agents of Mayhem, kind of a shame it went down the way it did, honestly being in a world where Agents of Mayhem turned out successful and got a follow up and that crazy mod stuff instead of that Saint's Row Reboot would've been better than what we got.
It's frustrating to think about how Volition and its franchises had so much potential. I'm more familiar with Saints Row and Red Faction (and I think both had a ton of potential to be bigger than they are now if it weren't for the mistakes made close to the end of THQ's existence), but those AOM modding tools sound amazing. Being able to toy around with Stilwater using their tools would have probably gotten me into modding. Although hearing that they were lying to Deep Silver about AOM's progress (followed by Deep Silver being hard to work with) makes me wonder what the communication was like between both of them during SR2022's development. It had to get to a point where they must have been kidding themselves about how that game was gonna turn out.
It makes a lot more sense why volition ended up with the smug newbie staff in the reboot. They really couldn't stop themselves from making it look as unappealing as possible.
I always wondered why official modding tools were rare but it would make sense that developers want to make them but publishers and other issues get in the way.
There is also the fact that modding tools are not that easy to make. Sure, the basic stuff like switching assets can be done pretty easily on pretty much every engine, but if you want to have something like what Bethesda has in terms of modding, you have to design your engine around the idea of modding
Think about it like this. Engines like Unreal are licensed out to developers for obscene amounts of money because the technology behind them have had millions invested in them. To power a modern day title is very complicated task. So to make mod tools to boot and allow your competition to see your innerworkings for FREE is not a good prospect. A company like Bethesda only does it because NO ONE wants to copy the creation engine. NO ONE! It was way more acceptable in the 90s but less money was involved back then.
Seems to line up with what I've read online by some "supposed" developers for the reboot. A lot of creative decisions were made by the higher ups from the hipster characters to the outdated gameplay. They're so out of touch with game development and they're the ones responsible for the series' tarnished reputation. Again, this was stuff I read from a "supposed" game developer who was in the thick of it and honestly it makes sense to me.
@@SomeDigitalGhost Somebody posted screenshots on Reddit around the game's release of what the guy said and I didn't save the post so unfortunately I can't provide proof. My guess though if it is legit is maybe check Volition's Glassdoor job reviews? Maybe that's where they screenshotted it from.
I believe this, because it was the publishers that wanted the games to be a certain way. THQ gave us SR1-SR3, but during SR3 they were divided on what they were going to do. They originally wanted SRTT to be the soft reboot against the lack of understanding critics had of SR2 and them still being called a GTA "clone" but THQ didnt want them to go where they originally intended, where SR3 was going to make even less sense than the reboot itself does. Volition wanted the game to just forget the gangster thing entirely as early as that game and essentially make the game even more incoherent and childish than SR4 was, but THQ wanted them to stay on track with the gangster stuff, so SR3 felt split down the middle between gangster and cartoony. Then DS camein, let them do what they wanted, fans hated it but they still demanded to hold their ground with SR4 and GOOH. So I can bet it was Volition pulling back against THQ ealy on. As for the reboot I think it might be entirely the opposite, where the "Howdy'o do fellow kids" twitter feel of the game and the stuff about "we want the characfters to fit in your living room" interview totally camefrom disconnected higher ups who thought this was what kids of the times wanted. The dated gameplay, and the assumption that hipsters were "current" (they aren't) and just the awful friendship story. It could be why the game felt more like a corporate marketing project than an actual faithful Saints Row reboot.
problem is that community manager, like who put her in charge of what is essentially sales like this, where she kept lashing out at fans and gas lighting them, and keep in mind THQ put out Destroy All Humans 2 without any woke changes to it, so it begs the question of who did what.
This is interesting because I vaguely remember Saintsgodzilla saying he has an NDA with Volition with Saints Row's reboot and he's hinted that "it wasn't what he was shown" on a private visit when he was reviewing the game. It looks like Deep Silver/Volition are a horribly mis-managed company to me, which is also funny because a lot of similar complaints have been mentioned about Rockstar Games and Treyarch too.
Nah in his reaction to da reveal trailer which you can peep now on a channel called irishcoffee he was like "yup" errytime one of da enemies of da game was makin a show up and deir logos, den he says wait till you see gameplay den you can me a liar if you aint likin it It just screams stupidity from him cause at dis point you cant blame someone like me for hatin your guts, all yall is p***ies, yall aint got no principles, da moment you got close to dese corporations dey done pimped yo a$$
Nah in his reaction to da reveal trailer which you can peep now on a channel called irishcoffee he was like "yup" errytime one of da enemies of da game was makin a show up and deir logos, den he says wait till you see gameplay den you can me a liar if you aint likin it It just screams stupidity from him cause at dis point you cant blame someone like me for hatin your guts, all yall is p***ies, yall aint got no principles, da moment you got close to dese corporations dey done p*mped yo a$$
i dont really trust saintsgodzilla tbh. ever saints row released he's felt so fake, like he's still on their side but has to act angry so he doesn't lose his fans. maybe im overanalysing but that's just what my gut is telling me.
Agents of Mayhem honestly was a game that held so much potential. Had a great premise and art style. It had so much personality. The story coulda been better if given more thought. But the characters alone made every moment of the game special. Just wish Volition/Deep silver would have sponsored the game more... Maybe it woulda actually sold. It's just nobody knew it existed...
IKR? I so wanted this game to do well. Sure I encountered some bugs here and there, but overall it was enjoyable, the characters especially being the highlight.
I legit didn't know it existed until people mentioned it while talking about the 'reboot' (more like a pile of shit with the saints row title stapled on with glitter and cardboard). I'm not sure if it's better or worse that I didn't play it because the quality seems meh based on others.
Everybody knew it existed. It was just another generic shooter. There wasn't anything exciting about it. Everybody at that point was also wanting more saints row and instead saw "agents of mayhem" which just wasn't what anybody wanted.
This is exactly why I wasn't disappointed over AOM or SR's reboot, I knew what to expect beforehand - all those companies are crazy and love to ruin each others time.. I knew we weren't going to get exactly what we wanted with the reboot because seemingly nobody on those teams are on the same page and so most ideas just doesn't work the way they should. That's just the sad truth and I'm glad you elaborated on exposing it. They aren't innocent!
It’s amazing Deep Silver was (and honestly still is) asking such a small company like Volition for so much with so much fewer; of course it’s not gonna live up to Rockstar when they have triple the size and triple the budget, especially not with the deadlines given. Plus look at Deep Silver’s track record; if you’ve ever seen their video game archives, hardly any got review scores, player and critic alike, higher than the 70’s. But hearing Volition’s head honchos were the ones who hold the most blame for AoM’s demise even though it sounds like, with another year or so it could’ve been something much better? Just goes to show what corporate greed does… it’s such a cutthroat dog eat dog world no matter where anyone looks in the realm of occupations… Thanks for revealing all this Flippy; I imagine you’ve wanted to mention this stuff for quite some time, but due to the DNE you had no choice but to remain quiet until it expired. I would think Godzilla’s the same with his SR’22 agreement.
I'll be honest, as much as Deep Silver is mismanaged from the looks of things... I don't think they're fully to blame. In fact, I feel like I might be slightly too forgiving, I admit, nevertheless, let's face it. Volition outright lied to them. They lied about state game was in and the progress. This likely forced DS to make decisions that they otherwise wouldn't have made had Volition was transparent with them. And now, with precedent being set, who's to say what else they lied about?
In this case both were in the wrong. Volition for lying to Deep Silver about the game being further ahead than it actually was, Deep Silver for asking to add too much in too little time. Less advertising led to less overall sales, the game ended up needing more time to be made but the deadline was already set, and a lot of what was supposed to be in ended up just being cut out altogether. The DLC patches were never going to fix everything, only the stuff that already was there and maybe add a small additional portion of new items. The game bombed, both lost a lot of money, and the only way to keep afloat was through layoffs. It’s horrible but that’s business.
Its frustrating because AoM is not even that bad, if it had more polish it would have been even better. Even with the stuff it has now I think it was fun and some of the gags involving the Legion members was actually funny, like the pop song slandering Mayhem and the virtual idol being in love with that Legion guy.
It aint bad its just dat da writin wasnt existin and da world is lifeless plus graphics look like ps 3 and weapons sound like toys, oh and enemies is bullet sponges (you see da common issues wit volition titles? Everythin sucks except da voice actin and music) and lack of coop for a game dat people make for da purpose of coop, and ofcourse i remember jason l blair sayin "oh we wanted to give you da feelin dat you controlin an agency by not includin coop" 🤦🏻♂️
AOM is just boring, I'm sure with more content to create a more satisfying gameplay loop would have made it more satisfying to play. It's not like the core mechanics are bad, the characters are fun to play for a little bit. 3 maps to access would have been great and would have spiced it up more than what we got, I just couldn't finish the game because within a few hours everything worth experiencing has been experienced. Funnily enough, the SR reboot suffers from the same problem, aside from all the other problems it has. It's just not satisfying and ultimately becomes boring. It's so fucking sad because I loved all 4 of the original games despite the identity crisis it went through, because the gameplay loop was always good. Even in 4, adding the powers was enough of an addition to create a satisfying gameplay loop different enough to justify recycling the city. AOM and the reboot just don't have the same creativity or satisfying gameplay of the original 4.
This is really heartbreaking because AoM had so much potential. If people had KNOWN about those development tools, they would have been more supportive, and that might have gotten a lot of the other stuff done. It's shocking to me that the management of both volition and ds could have messed this up so completely.
It’s just the company gaslighted sr fans into thinking aom was saints row. That’s why it never came to light, should’ve made a game like this separately away from everything and released a game they wanted, no matter how petty this is
As the fate of Sonic 06 given wasn't juggling multiple other projects it was in fighting with the two and last sec rushing of "oh ok let's no bug test any of this shit and ship it out" cause the suits said so. Now only wonder how things now, to with the SR reboot the modern Sonic 06 in a sense if this is the end..... i really got questions on many things i personally want to ask DS and volition!
Giving out such modding tools would be incredibly smart, it'd be an easy way for Volition to find good potential employees or contractors who knows how to work on their stuff, for free.
given rockstar gives dedicated fans the bird and i know Volition deff seeks some good PR but man if they were head butting to mass layoffs AOM would have saved them to if the SR reboot didn't make us think of a modern Sonic 06 for a franchies those two could have prob outlived GTA V and GTA 6 (and bully 2? i still got hope lol)
I'd be really intrigued to hear more about this. I honestly really liked Agents of Mayhem when I played it, and I hate to hear that it could've been better.
Lmao whatever bridges you had with volition have been burned harder than Crimea’s bridge. Between the reboot review and this (NDA or not) there are gonna be people unhappy with you. Fair play to you boss please do more videos like these you have a unique perspective that’s genuinely interesting to us fans.
Did not expect Flippy to make a new video so quickly. Keep up the awesome new content. It's highly entertaining. You should share all that additional content and info you have on the game.
Knowing the truth of what we could have had hurts. It's like seeing your childhood hero making a comeback tour but ODs right before their first public appearance
Рік тому+8
I gotta say it worked, I was so confused by the thumbnail I had to click the video immediately. And holy shit, management at Deep Silver and Volition sounds like a nightmare, no wonder they can't release a good product. They need some serious restructuring, or none of that will change.
flippy, you got to come back for a while! I remember for years constantly checking your channel to see if you uploaded and messing around with your website to find hidden pages. We love you flippy!
Personally I would totally love to hear more. I didn't hate agents of mayhem when I first played it. I don't remember having a bad time playing as far as glitches and bugs. What bugged me the most was that it felt like most of the missions took place in those bunkers instead of above ground in the main beautiful map. Honestly as a side thing to saints I kind of wish that the series flourished for this to be the more colorful thing that volition seems to want to do in saints Row could kind of be more of the serious saints Row 2 vibe again.
I've heard this happens in a lot of game studios, very similar stories of the developer lying to the publisher, and eventually the publisher finds out and freaks out and tries to put things back together but it leads to a buggy game. Cool to see it on a public video.
I was so disappointed when I played through Agents of Mayhem and discovered it had no real mods to speak of, because it seemed like the perfect environment for it. The fact that there was so much planned that never materialized is really a shame.
Man based on this the workplace there sounds terrible, regardless of how everyone feels about the game I don't want people doing ridiculous work weeks because the suits demand it. Screw Ubisoft's rocks they barely register in my brain and then the next 500 hours of the game is a slog.
I'm disappointed Volition could do this, honestly. I liked Saints Row 3, but that's probably the last game they made that I still enjoy playing. It all makes sense now with DS being difficult to work with. I still think both sides need to take responsibility for their actions.
If Deep Silver calling up Volition to tell them to make the rocks prettier _and send them 50 page reports on how rocks are rendered in other games_ isn't the most unhinged publisher demand in the history of the video game industry, I don't want to know what is.
This is so sad man as angry as I am at Volition rn for the Saints Row reboot this is so heartbreaking to hear. But loving the fact ur kinda back flippy keep the uploads coming man
A strong modding community with extensive tools is the sort of thing which could sell me on getting the reboot at some point (once it's on Steam at a low price and hopefully patched to a good state). It's such a shame it never worked out for AoM, that would have been so cool
As someone who enjoyed AoM for what it was, hearing all of this is just straight up painful. If the tools were released along side AoM as a feature, it could've drawn a lot more eyes to the game. Devs and Publishers seem to underestimate the power of what mod tools can do for a game especially if marketed correctly. I mean look at games like Skyrim and GMOD. It's such a shame both parties practically sabatoged this game. It had so much potential and it wasn't given a fair enough chance. I hope things at DeepSilver and Volition change for the better. I doubt it but a man can dream. Thanks for the insight, Flip.
Ma nizzle you SHOULD be glad dat didnt happen Why?!?!?!?!9 Cause deyll tell you just like how i tell you "we love saints row" but den proceed to do ABSOLUTELY nothin to bring saints row to a wider audience and make it easier to access, no source code to release publicly to start dat mod city situation, no cross platform multiplayer to keep it alive and make everyone enjoy da games wit eachother, no release on switch, and more, just boycott dese companies ma nizzle, just boycott, youll bring em down on dey knees, dont tell me lets just give em feedback instead cause we been doin, dese suckas dont want no feedback Campaign for hazelight studios to make a saints row, make a video on you channel campaignin for em
@@AliBazz don't take it the wrong way dawg, but the way you type out your stuff is hard to read. I don't know if you're trying to sound like a gangsta or something, but it ain't working. Just type out your stuff normally. Not even my gang banging friends type like that lol
There was a time when Saints Row 2 was gonna use Geo-Mod 2.0 with all it's physics (Red Faction Guerilla) but the shitload of buildings/geometry and CPU calculations/limited memory, wasn't feasible. There's a version of SR2 (private) with an early EARLY build where Stillwater could be destroyed piece by piece.
God, all that cut content sounds like it would have been fantastic. And Deep Silver sending them 50 page reports on how Ubisoft (Oh boy, what a high bar to set!) was making ROCKS?!
Flippy is exactly like my father he comes and goes from my life making me happier then ever when he is there but when he goes again i ask my self was i not good enough? Nah but in all seriousness its been an awsome year to have some flippy content to Watch come and go as you please my man + Please do more cuckold sim gameplay if you want of course that video was a gem just you goofin off in a shitty video game was gold
Oh, I can only imagine what the video for Saints row 2022 is going to be like when the NDA expires for that project. As a member of the community, I've already seen cut content and unfinished missions, statements from head office and lies on the cover art. The fun of seeing that 90% of the game wasn't done and yet they released it anyways will be enough content for a court case.
Sadly, I think this is then end of Volition, at least as a solo studio. I see them maybe becoming like Beenox, working on other companies IP's. I can't see Deep Silver giving them anymore trust/freedom to do their own thing again. It's sad but from a business stand point, I think it's the only course if action, apart from shutting them down outright.
If Deep Silver was on Volition's ass that hard about their writing or fandom demand instead of caring about the fedelity of their car textures, we might have had a good reboot.
Welp. Guess it's time to go back into hibernation till Volition takes some volition to do anything at all, am I right? Hehehe, but seriously, been sticking with you even during the hiatus and glad to see you again.
I played AoM about a year back, and actually really liked it. Rather repetitive, but good. Sounds like it was screwed over by both Voltion and Deep Silver but someone somewhere clearly cared about the game, because you can see those moments of brilliance come through sometimes. I still like logging in and trampling through the sandbox every now and then. Scheherazade is insane in the late game!
You can really tell that some of the people making this game did care. It seems like they just weren’t given enough resources, time, and liberties to make this game as great as it could have been.
Ironically, Vollion and Deep Silver made the EXACT SAME mistake 3D Realms and Gearbox made for DNF 2011. So in a way, AoM and SRR is a modern day DNF... What a day to be a Saints fan...
The agent missions where last minute!? I fucking love those mission!! They're were great to know the characters and there struggles it was the only side content I've been playing🤣 it's good to hear more about this game
Heyo! It has been so long that I forgot you were under NDA on this PoS. Now all that leaves is mrsaintsgodzilla21's NDA to expire by early next year, and the puzzle will finally be completed on what in the ever-loving fuck is going on in Volition's development.
Modding tools aside the multiple areas and 100 agents sounded cool as fuck, like honestly I can't speak for others but this theoretical AOM with all that content sounds super cool. What we got was alright and I've had my fun but what was proposed could have been seriously amazing.
Yooo I'd love to see more on AoM if you care to share. I actually liked most of the characters even if the gameplay was a huge letdown and I doubt they'll revisit this continuity anytime soon
It’s October! I hope you guys are ready for some SPOOKtacular stories from the game industry (*thunder crash & lighting strike*). Oooh! Leave the lights on… things might get.. spoOoOoky.. Mwahahaha!
I am scared
Dude I'm just hype to have you back uploading.
You're back!
Did you know about the Saints Row reboot being made before it was announced?
Oh my God no wonder the reboot so bad if volition was willing to lie to Deep Silver about the game being working and finished what do you think they were willing to say to the stock owners and Embrace group about the reboot especially with the idiots they have hired God I'm honestly shocked this is why the reboot is so bad I can't wait to see Mr Saints Godzilla's video next year about his NDA I wonder what volition told them about the reboot saying yes it's going to be classic good I bet the CEO doesn't even know the game looks like he probably has an early draft of the story not even what actually went in the game
Flippy posting more than once this year? We are truly blessed to still have him around!
Saint row is so bad it fuel him.
Indeed
I'm scared tbh
🐐
I thought the reboot was gonna be the end and I’m glad it’s actually the beginning
BABE WAKE UP FLIPPY POSTED
I’m up!
@@ksspook Wait I'm RPG's Wife! Get outta my bed!
It’s like Christmas
@@FrankByDaylight LOL
The Sony Gat thing is fascinating and has so many ramifications for how decisions are made across the gaming industry to know big companies like Microsoft and Sony have the power to step down through publishers into development teams and force things into games. I wonder how many times things like this have happened
The kind of shit that causes riots when done in politics
Street fighter x Tekken, pacman and mega man being exclusive on ps3 despite them being locked in the disc on Xbox 360
we're living in the most boring cyberpunk dystopia you can imagine
Console manufacturers have a lot of leverage. The reason a lot of big game nowadays feel consolitis is because they have been forcing the standard for decades.
@@SpartanChief2277 you forgot Cole McGrath
Man that story about Volition Heads lying to Deep Silver is just crazy. The fact that the game released so buggy makes sense now honestly. I wouldn't be surprised if the layoffs were partly fueled by the lies...makes me wonder if anything similar happened with the reboot.
Chances are unless there are insider leaks. NDA's will prevent us hearing for a long time.
Also forget bout da community manager
At this point I'm surprised volition hasn't imploded in on itself
I swear one creator basically said that if the reboot didn’t do well the company basically goes bye bye lol I heard they made a profit but who really knows? Not me 🤣
@@SlickSkuddy do you think dey sold 2 million copies?
You have no idea how badly I wish I lived in the timeline where Saints Row/AOM mod tools were released.
Do you wish for saints row to be easier to access more dan you wishin for whatever you said?
Honestly that might be the only thing that saves the reboot
@@ChannelNotFound that'd be like covering a turd in pink frosting
@@AliBazz Keep in mind when I said this I'm imagining using the Stilwater map Flippy mentioned to functionally recreate SR2.
@@AliBazz Also now that you mention yes SR1 and 2 being more accessible is higher on my list of desires
I can't speak to the Special Investigation missions for agents but I've been told by more than one developer who worked on AoM that they had to fight very hard to get the agent missions into the game at all because of scope cutting that occurred early into the project. If it was indeed Deep Silver who specifically asked for the Investigations, that's baffling. Maybe if Deep Silver wanted Ubisoft "quality", they should have spent the amount of money Ubisoft does on their games.
DX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, IS A FLIPPY FAN?
Your video on Agents of Mayhem is the best one ever made for the game. Can't wait for the Cyberpunk video
@@cleaver3168 Thank you! Writing the script now!
Well, think from deep silver’s perspective:
They are investing in a game that isn’t really living up to competition, so obviously even if myopically, pushed to that quality.
Also consider that if what was said is true volition was openly lying to them on the state of the game.
@@cleaver3168
An another angry review of cyberpunk ignoring the even worse games that came out and were loved even if buggy. Frankly I do not see the charm in it.
Man I can see why Flippy was as ecstatic about Agents of Mayhem, kind of a shame it went down the way it did, honestly being in a world where Agents of Mayhem turned out successful and got a follow up and that crazy mod stuff instead of that Saint's Row Reboot would've been better than what we got.
Tell me how i get to that world. Because currently we are all stuck in Gamer Hell Limbo... the entire industry is the very defintion of cancer!
It's frustrating to think about how Volition and its franchises had so much potential. I'm more familiar with Saints Row and Red Faction (and I think both had a ton of potential to be bigger than they are now if it weren't for the mistakes made close to the end of THQ's existence), but those AOM modding tools sound amazing. Being able to toy around with Stilwater using their tools would have probably gotten me into modding.
Although hearing that they were lying to Deep Silver about AOM's progress (followed by Deep Silver being hard to work with) makes me wonder what the communication was like between both of them during SR2022's development. It had to get to a point where they must have been kidding themselves about how that game was gonna turn out.
Ikr
I agree
If this happened with Agents of Mayhem imagine the story behind the development of Saints Row 2022
I expect illegal shenanigans being thrown in that one.
It makes a lot more sense why volition ended up with the smug newbie staff in the reboot. They really couldn't stop themselves from making it look as unappealing as possible.
Money laundering scheme, I bet!
I always wondered why official modding tools were rare but it would make sense that developers want to make them but publishers and other issues get in the way.
Yeah I could see the suits in management thinking mod tools would cut into dlc sales.
Official modding tools are very hard to put together even for developers. There's a billion hurdles before publishers, oddly enough.
There is also the fact that modding tools are not that easy to make. Sure, the basic stuff like switching assets can be done pretty easily on pretty much every engine, but if you want to have something like what Bethesda has in terms of modding, you have to design your engine around the idea of modding
Think about it like this. Engines like Unreal are licensed out to developers for obscene amounts of money because the technology behind them have had millions invested in them. To power a modern day title is very complicated task. So to make mod tools to boot and allow your competition to see your innerworkings for FREE is not a good prospect. A company like Bethesda only does it because NO ONE wants to copy the creation engine. NO ONE! It was way more acceptable in the 90s but less money was involved back then.
@@jerm70 Very well said.
Seems to line up with what I've read online by some "supposed" developers for the reboot. A lot of creative decisions were made by the higher ups from the hipster characters to the outdated gameplay. They're so out of touch with game development and they're the ones responsible for the series' tarnished reputation. Again, this was stuff I read from a "supposed" game developer who was in the thick of it and honestly it makes sense to me.
We're the source? I want to read it myself.
@@SomeDigitalGhost Somebody posted screenshots on Reddit around the game's release of what the guy said and I didn't save the post so unfortunately I can't provide proof. My guess though if it is legit is maybe check Volition's Glassdoor job reviews? Maybe that's where they screenshotted it from.
@@BlackiechanFu Oh no, I believe you, I just wanted to read it my self.
I believe this, because it was the publishers that wanted the games to be a certain way. THQ gave us SR1-SR3, but during SR3 they were divided on what they were going to do. They originally wanted SRTT to be the soft reboot against the lack of understanding critics had of SR2 and them still being called a GTA "clone" but THQ didnt want them to go where they originally intended, where SR3 was going to make even less sense than the reboot itself does.
Volition wanted the game to just forget the gangster thing entirely as early as that game and essentially make the game even more incoherent and childish than SR4 was, but THQ wanted them to stay on track with the gangster stuff, so SR3 felt split down the middle between gangster and cartoony. Then DS camein, let them do what they wanted, fans hated it but they still demanded to hold their ground with SR4 and GOOH.
So I can bet it was Volition pulling back against THQ ealy on. As for the reboot I think it might be entirely the opposite, where the "Howdy'o do fellow kids" twitter feel of the game and the stuff about "we want the characfters to fit in your living room" interview totally camefrom disconnected higher ups who thought this was what kids of the times wanted. The dated gameplay, and the assumption that hipsters were "current" (they aren't) and just the awful friendship story. It could be why the game felt more like a corporate marketing project than an actual faithful Saints Row reboot.
problem is that community manager, like who put her in charge of what is essentially sales like this, where she kept lashing out at fans and gas lighting them, and keep in mind THQ put out Destroy All Humans 2 without any woke changes to it, so it begs the question of who did what.
This is interesting because I vaguely remember Saintsgodzilla saying he has an NDA with Volition with Saints Row's reboot and he's hinted that "it wasn't what he was shown" on a private visit when he was reviewing the game.
It looks like Deep Silver/Volition are a horribly mis-managed company to me, which is also funny because a lot of similar complaints have been mentioned about Rockstar Games and Treyarch too.
You again what do you want
Nah in his reaction to da reveal trailer which you can peep now on a channel called irishcoffee he was like "yup" errytime one of da enemies of da game was makin a show up and deir logos, den he says wait till you see gameplay den you can me a liar if you aint likin it
It just screams stupidity from him cause at dis point you cant blame someone like me for hatin your guts, all yall is p***ies, yall aint got no principles, da moment you got close to dese corporations dey done pimped yo a$$
Nah in his reaction to da reveal trailer which you can peep now on a channel called irishcoffee he was like "yup" errytime one of da enemies of da game was makin a show up and deir logos, den he says wait till you see gameplay den you can me a liar if you aint likin it
It just screams stupidity from him cause at dis point you cant blame someone like me for hatin your guts, all yall is p***ies, yall aint got no principles, da moment you got close to dese corporations dey done p*mped yo a$$
i dont really trust saintsgodzilla tbh. ever saints row released he's felt so fake, like he's still on their side but has to act angry so he doesn't lose his fans. maybe im overanalysing but that's just what my gut is telling me.
@@Dododeath I'm glad somebody gets it I agree
Agents of Mayhem honestly was a game that held so much potential. Had a great premise and art style. It had so much personality. The story coulda been better if given more thought. But the characters alone made every moment of the game special.
Just wish Volition/Deep silver would have sponsored the game more... Maybe it woulda actually sold. It's just nobody knew it existed...
IKR? I so wanted this game to do well. Sure I encountered some bugs here and there, but overall it was enjoyable, the characters especially being the highlight.
I legit didn't know it existed until people mentioned it while talking about the 'reboot' (more like a pile of shit with the saints row title stapled on with glitter and cardboard). I'm not sure if it's better or worse that I didn't play it because the quality seems meh based on others.
Lol bruh
Everybody knew it existed. It was just another generic shooter.
There wasn't anything exciting about it. Everybody at that point was also wanting more saints row and instead saw "agents of mayhem" which just wasn't what anybody wanted.
@@RandomHeroGames 💯 doe
This is exactly why I wasn't disappointed over AOM or SR's reboot, I knew what to expect beforehand - all those companies are crazy and love to ruin each others time.. I knew we weren't going to get exactly what we wanted with the reboot because seemingly nobody on those teams are on the same page and so most ideas just doesn't work the way they should. That's just the sad truth and I'm glad you elaborated on exposing it. They aren't innocent!
Aye I mean I saw what was coming with the reboot and I'm still disappointed lmfao
The real agents of mayhem were the executives at Volition and Deep Silver. So much chaos happening during production.
They were going to give us a "Here, just do it yourself " DLC?
It’s amazing Deep Silver was (and honestly still is) asking such a small company like Volition for so much with so much fewer; of course it’s not gonna live up to Rockstar when they have triple the size and triple the budget, especially not with the deadlines given. Plus look at Deep Silver’s track record; if you’ve ever seen their video game archives, hardly any got review scores, player and critic alike, higher than the 70’s. But hearing Volition’s head honchos were the ones who hold the most blame for AoM’s demise even though it sounds like, with another year or so it could’ve been something much better? Just goes to show what corporate greed does… it’s such a cutthroat dog eat dog world no matter where anyone looks in the realm of occupations…
Thanks for revealing all this Flippy; I imagine you’ve wanted to mention this stuff for quite some time, but due to the DNE you had no choice but to remain quiet until it expired. I would think Godzilla’s the same with his SR’22 agreement.
I'll be honest, as much as Deep Silver is mismanaged from the looks of things... I don't think they're fully to blame. In fact, I feel like I might be slightly too forgiving, I admit, nevertheless, let's face it.
Volition outright lied to them. They lied about state game was in and the progress. This likely forced DS to make decisions that they otherwise wouldn't have made had Volition was transparent with them. And now, with precedent being set, who's to say what else they lied about?
I think Volition is probably more to blame often than Deep Silver. There are so many poor decisions made by them
In this case both were in the wrong. Volition for lying to Deep Silver about the game being further ahead than it actually was, Deep Silver for asking to add too much in too little time. Less advertising led to less overall sales, the game ended up needing more time to be made but the deadline was already set, and a lot of what was supposed to be in ended up just being cut out altogether. The DLC patches were never going to fix everything, only the stuff that already was there and maybe add a small additional portion of new items. The game bombed, both lost a lot of money, and the only way to keep afloat was through layoffs. It’s horrible but that’s business.
@CW not true at all numbers wise
Ok but weren't volition the first ones to compare themselves to rockstar? With that "would you rather" trailer for example?
Its frustrating because AoM is not even that bad, if it had more polish it would have been even better. Even with the stuff it has now I think it was fun and some of the gags involving the Legion members was actually funny, like the pop song slandering Mayhem and the virtual idol being in love with that Legion guy.
If it weren't for AoM's terrible/repetitive mission design I would have actually completed the game.
It aint bad its just dat da writin wasnt existin and da world is lifeless plus graphics look like ps 3 and weapons sound like toys, oh and enemies is bullet sponges (you see da common issues wit volition titles? Everythin sucks except da voice actin and music) and lack of coop for a game dat people make for da purpose of coop, and ofcourse i remember jason l blair sayin "oh we wanted to give you da feelin dat you controlin an agency by not includin coop" 🤦🏻♂️
AOM is just boring, I'm sure with more content to create a more satisfying gameplay loop would have made it more satisfying to play. It's not like the core mechanics are bad, the characters are fun to play for a little bit. 3 maps to access would have been great and would have spiced it up more than what we got, I just couldn't finish the game because within a few hours everything worth experiencing has been experienced. Funnily enough, the SR reboot suffers from the same problem, aside from all the other problems it has. It's just not satisfying and ultimately becomes boring. It's so fucking sad because I loved all 4 of the original games despite the identity crisis it went through, because the gameplay loop was always good. Even in 4, adding the powers was enough of an addition to create a satisfying gameplay loop different enough to justify recycling the city. AOM and the reboot just don't have the same creativity or satisfying gameplay of the original 4.
This is really heartbreaking because AoM had so much potential. If people had KNOWN about those development tools, they would have been more supportive, and that might have gotten a lot of the other stuff done. It's shocking to me that the management of both volition and ds could have messed this up so completely.
It’s just the company gaslighted sr fans into thinking aom was saints row. That’s why it never came to light, should’ve made a game like this separately away from everything and released a game they wanted, no matter how petty this is
As the fate of Sonic 06 given wasn't juggling multiple other projects it was in fighting with the two and last sec rushing of "oh ok let's no bug test any of this shit and ship it out" cause the suits said so.
Now only wonder how things now, to with the SR reboot the modern Sonic 06 in a sense if this is the end..... i really got questions on many things i personally want to ask DS and volition!
The problem they marketed as saints row should of been its own thing
@@M4TTYNI think my brain started leaking blood when I tried to comprehend your comment. Sorry, but it’s really hard to read.
4:02 Oh… oh wow… that’s quite a cool guy right there.
Giving out such modding tools would be incredibly smart, it'd be an easy way for Volition to find good potential employees or contractors who knows how to work on their stuff, for free.
given rockstar gives dedicated fans the bird and i know Volition deff seeks some good PR but man if they were head butting to mass layoffs AOM would have saved them to if the SR reboot didn't make us think of a modern Sonic 06 for a franchies those two could have prob outlived GTA V and GTA 6 (and bully 2? i still got hope lol)
It turns out the real Agents of Mayhem are quite literally the friends we made along the way
I wonder what is the truth behind Saints Row (2022). Someone poisoned the well for sure.
I'd be really intrigued to hear more about this. I honestly really liked Agents of Mayhem when I played it, and I hate to hear that it could've been better.
Lmao whatever bridges you had with volition have been burned harder than Crimea’s bridge. Between the reboot review and this (NDA or not) there are gonna be people unhappy with you.
Fair play to you boss please do more videos like these you have a unique perspective that’s genuinely interesting to us fans.
To be fair, the reboot pretty much proved that there's no point in keeping the bridges around with Volition.
@@G.Librange Facts
@@G.Librange agreed.
@@InternetMouse I-Is that the famous comment section commenter Internet Mouse?!?!😱
Huges Memorial bridge you mean
Did not expect Flippy to make a new video so quickly. Keep up the awesome new content. It's highly entertaining. You should share all that additional content and info you have on the game.
This is crazy I definitely wanna hear more of these stores
Knowing the truth of what we could have had hurts. It's like seeing your childhood hero making a comeback tour but ODs right before their first public appearance
I gotta say it worked, I was so confused by the thumbnail I had to click the video immediately. And holy shit, management at Deep Silver and Volition sounds like a nightmare, no wonder they can't release a good product. They need some serious restructuring, or none of that will change.
flippy, you got to come back for a while! I remember for years constantly checking your channel to see if you uploaded and messing around with your website to find hidden pages. We love you flippy!
Personally I would totally love to hear more. I didn't hate agents of mayhem when I first played it. I don't remember having a bad time playing as far as glitches and bugs. What bugged me the most was that it felt like most of the missions took place in those bunkers instead of above ground in the main beautiful map. Honestly as a side thing to saints I kind of wish that the series flourished for this to be the more colorful thing that volition seems to want to do in saints Row could kind of be more of the serious saints Row 2 vibe again.
I love both Saints Row 2 and The Third. I wish they would do a proper continuation of The Third.
I've heard this happens in a lot of game studios, very similar stories of the developer lying to the publisher, and eventually the publisher finds out and freaks out and tries to put things back together but it leads to a buggy game. Cool to see it on a public video.
It sounded like gearbox alien marine n sega
I was so disappointed when I played through Agents of Mayhem and discovered it had no real mods to speak of, because it seemed like the perfect environment for it. The fact that there was so much planned that never materialized is really a shame.
Hearing that Sony is the only reason we got Gat is soul crushing ,Sony knew we wanted the saints more than volition
Man based on this the workplace there sounds terrible, regardless of how everyone feels about the game I don't want people doing ridiculous work weeks because the suits demand it. Screw Ubisoft's rocks they barely register in my brain and then the next 500 hours of the game is a slog.
I'll never forgive Volition for not making a sequel to The Punisher game😞
This guy can post whenever and whatever and I’ll always watch every second of it.
I'm disappointed Volition could do this, honestly. I liked Saints Row 3, but that's probably the last game they made that I still enjoy playing. It all makes sense now with DS being difficult to work with. I still think both sides need to take responsibility for their actions.
If Deep Silver calling up Volition to tell them to make the rocks prettier _and send them 50 page reports on how rocks are rendered in other games_ isn't the most unhinged publisher demand in the history of the video game industry, I don't want to know what is.
That's what happens when developers lie to publishers.
@@DR3ADER1Because then the publishers think it’s going better than it really is?
Honestly a mod pack like what you outlined would actually fix the reboot, at least we could add shit we want
Hey Flippy, loved your old glitches list and the review about the new Saints Row. And I've always liked your profile pic.
Man it's great to see you posting content again hope you're sticking around for good
Thank you Flippy. We appreciate all you’re content and hope you are doing well ❤
This is so sad man as angry as I am at Volition rn for the Saints Row reboot this is so heartbreaking to hear. But loving the fact ur kinda back flippy keep the uploads coming man
A strong modding community with extensive tools is the sort of thing which could sell me on getting the reboot at some point (once it's on Steam at a low price and hopefully patched to a good state). It's such a shame it never worked out for AoM, that would have been so cool
This is great to look into, keep these informations coming Flippy.
As someone who enjoyed AoM for what it was, hearing all of this is just straight up painful. If the tools were released along side AoM as a feature, it could've drawn a lot more eyes to the game. Devs and Publishers seem to underestimate the power of what mod tools can do for a game especially if marketed correctly. I mean look at games like Skyrim and GMOD. It's such a shame both parties practically sabatoged this game. It had so much potential and it wasn't given a fair enough chance. I hope things at DeepSilver and Volition change for the better. I doubt it but a man can dream.
Thanks for the insight, Flip.
Ma nizzle you SHOULD be glad dat didnt happen
Why?!?!?!?!9
Cause deyll tell you just like how i tell you "we love saints row" but den proceed to do ABSOLUTELY nothin to bring saints row to a wider audience and make it easier to access, no source code to release publicly to start dat mod city situation, no cross platform multiplayer to keep it alive and make everyone enjoy da games wit eachother, no release on switch, and more, just boycott dese companies ma nizzle, just boycott, youll bring em down on dey knees, dont tell me lets just give em feedback instead cause we been doin, dese suckas dont want no feedback
Campaign for hazelight studios to make a saints row, make a video on you channel campaignin for em
@@AliBazz Ima be real with you G, I have no idea what you just said, but sorry that happened to you.
I’m depressed now :(
@@sizzurpmp3 so much for bein real
@@AliBazz don't take it the wrong way dawg, but the way you type out your stuff is hard to read. I don't know if you're trying to sound like a gangsta or something, but it ain't working. Just type out your stuff normally. Not even my gang banging friends type like that lol
There was a time when Saints Row 2 was gonna use Geo-Mod 2.0 with all it's physics (Red Faction Guerilla) but the shitload of buildings/geometry and CPU calculations/limited memory, wasn't feasible. There's a version of SR2 (private) with an early EARLY build where Stillwater could be destroyed piece by piece.
Does it actually exist? Since you said its private.
Man this is so sad. Something that could have been super cool basically killed a studio over night.
It’s good to see another video from you Flippy I thought you were going to leave the Internet again lol
God, all that cut content sounds like it would have been fantastic. And Deep Silver sending them 50 page reports on how Ubisoft (Oh boy, what a high bar to set!) was making ROCKS?!
Flippy is exactly like my father he comes and goes from my life making me happier then ever when he is there but when he goes again i ask my self was i not good enough? Nah but in all seriousness its been an awsome year to have some flippy content to Watch come and go as you please my man + Please do more cuckold sim gameplay if you want of course that video was a gem just you goofin off in a shitty video game was gold
Best thing to come out of the reboot was the return of the great flippster
Never clicked a notif so fast, loving the uploads!
Oh, I can only imagine what the video for Saints row 2022 is going to be like when the NDA expires for that project. As a member of the community, I've already seen cut content and unfinished missions, statements from head office and lies on the cover art. The fun of seeing that 90% of the game wasn't done and yet they released it anyways will be enough content for a court case.
There is only one good thing about the recent saints row release. It summond Flippy to make content
it’s 2023 November 29 now n I’m jus watching this video mad hell again
Flippy really just flashbanged us with some of the most insane lore imaginable out of nowhere
Damn, I'm glad you came back
Love ya flipster, neva change who u are
Thanks on the insight on how a came can come out broken. Never thought of this.
Holy shit I’m so happy you’re back
please revveal more of your experience with volition and agents of mayhem, this video was great and i hope to see more like it
Sadly, I think this is then end of Volition, at least as a solo studio. I see them maybe becoming like Beenox, working on other companies IP's.
I can't see Deep Silver giving them anymore trust/freedom to do their own thing again. It's sad but from a business stand point, I think it's the only course if action, apart from shutting them down outright.
Four Flippy videos in a single year?! Oh wow! We've been blessed
I'm just happy that your back, Flippy.
Video so good . I needed this information I really care about your insight and how they destroyed themselves
I just noticed your channel banner. I audibly exhaled from the nose. By the laws of man, I must subscribe!
If Deep Silver was on Volition's ass that hard about their writing or fandom demand instead of caring about the fedelity of their car textures, we might have had a good reboot.
Volition shouldn’t have lied to them in the first place
Nothing like another dose of the stories from the video game industry and the internal issues between developers and the publishers.
if you look a little deeper into violations plan it was basically if we make a really good modding thing the fans can make the games good for us
Bethesda basically
Welp. Guess it's time to go back into hibernation till Volition takes some volition to do anything at all, am I right? Hehehe, but seriously, been sticking with you even during the hiatus and glad to see you again.
I played AoM about a year back, and actually really liked it. Rather repetitive, but good. Sounds like it was screwed over by both Voltion and Deep Silver but someone somewhere clearly cared about the game, because you can see those moments of brilliance come through sometimes. I still like logging in and trampling through the sandbox every now and then. Scheherazade is insane in the late game!
You can really tell that some of the people making this game did care. It seems like they just weren’t given enough resources, time, and liberties to make this game as great as it could have been.
Ironically, Vollion and Deep Silver made the EXACT SAME mistake 3D Realms and Gearbox made for DNF 2011.
So in a way, AoM and SRR is a modern day DNF...
What a day to be a Saints fan...
This one slapped, thank you Flippy
AoM has a really fun sandbox map, it would be so wild if the modding tool is available.
The agent missions where last minute!? I fucking love those mission!! They're were great to know the characters and there struggles it was the only side content I've been playing🤣 it's good to hear more about this game
The downfall of these companies and their games is just baffling, honestly heartbreaking considering the potential of the saints row titles
was a very interesting universe and concept just dropped the ball
Heyo! It has been so long that I forgot you were under NDA on this PoS. Now all that leaves is mrsaintsgodzilla21's NDA to expire by early next year, and the puzzle will finally be completed on what in the ever-loving fuck is going on in Volition's development.
The best part of AOM is Kinzie’s cake
Modding tools aside the multiple areas and 100 agents sounded cool as fuck, like honestly I can't speak for others but this theoretical AOM with all that content sounds super cool. What we got was alright and I've had my fun but what was proposed could have been seriously amazing.
WOW MAN I just asked you about this some days ago
Finally I can sleep peacefully
Thank you Fl1ppy
Can’t wait to see aom two 🙏
I loved Agents of Mayhem! Man, it's so unfortunate to see what could have been..
Damn. That really sucks. I wanna be in the timeline where aom bangs. Cool video fliperdippy❤️
Now this is what I wanna hear when mrsaintsgodzillas able to talk on the saints row reboot.
It's nice when publishers and Studios are just so spiteful at eachother and all it does is hurt the consumer. :3
This really puts things into perspective...
Idec about saints row, volition or deep silver anymore. I just want Flippy vids at this point idc what they’re about
i really liked this game wish we would have gotten more content would love to see the cut stuff
What is it with Volition and only letting a single guy work on a good idea only on his free time?
Lmao the shittiness of that charging handle on the rifle. They didn't even try.
Yooo I'd love to see more on AoM if you care to share. I actually liked most of the characters even if the gameplay was a huge letdown and I doubt they'll revisit this continuity anytime soon
I wanna give all the dev's who busted their asses hugs :(
Good to have more videos from my fav saints row youtuber.
Both Volition and Deep Silver...
Can burn in development hell.
Last night I decided to watch ur first agents of mayhem vid and all of a sudden there’s another 💀
We truly are blessed that Flippy is back with more videos
Two uploads in a year…WHAT MADNESS IS THIS?!?