Interesting project. I think you should be able to get it running with oxygen. Looks like the propane is consuming the air inside the combustion chamber around the ignition source and extinguishing the burn. Maybe try a bit of compressed air before the oxygen?
hey, good to see you here. yeah that was my plan, to get the propane burning outside the chamber and slowly add oxygen. but this will be done on my friends farm so im actually wanting it to melt. i have an old Thermovision 470 that can image up to a few thousand degrees that will be pointed at it. later on i can switch to inconel. but no sense in spending much on my first rocket if its going to blow up anyway.
@Cody'sLab Maybe you can goldplate/silverplate it for her so it won't burn :) Or at least show her how it's done. She seems to be very talented with craft projects
I've designed and built a dozen rocket engines using spark-torch igniters. Propane-gox has a reasonably wide ignitable range, no need for hydrogen. I suggest you run spark-gox-fuel at the start, then turn them off in spark-fuel-gox order. This gives ox lead and lag for minimum ignition delay and clean shutdown. With gaseous propellants and nil chamber pressure at start, the highest pressure you can produce in a hard start is about 150 psi- no hazard. Mount your solenoids as close to the chamber as possible, the dead volumes will just cause unsteady flow. The injection orifices should be smaller than the solenoid flow areas so that the injectors control the gas flows. The injectors should at least be impinging to produce decent mixing.
Great videos. I have only watched the rocketry videos so far but I will be sure to watch more of your cool projects. Good luck and can't wait to see the fruition of these tests.
Good morning, I am also building a H2O2/ethanol rocket engine of my own. For your project, I suggest you not use the old plumbing parts. Even if they are made out of steel, it is corroded an might develop micro-fissures that would cause total engine failure. Also, you might want to use a convergent-divergent nozzle instead of just a convergent one. Lox/propane is a good idea, however you need to change your mixture ratio. I'm not sure but something like 2-4 O/F is fine (needs to be ascertained however). As for hydrogen, its tricky and has a very specific ratio. However it offers a better specific impulse than other fuels (about 300sec at sea level). The other problem you seem to be having is a low combustion chamber pressure resulting in a turbulent flow. Since you don't have a correctly sized nozzle, the exit flow can't be properly controlled either. The lack of pressure might be the cause of your failed ignition (I've tried it and it works fine on my test rig). I suggest that you do a complete engine overhaul as to ensure better performance and safety (pressure problems sometimes result in a rapid unplanned disassembly). You can use the research already done by other NASA scientists and use the flow simulators available on their NASA.gov website (grc or jpl sections). Others wise your project seems sound. I hope this will be of use to you and wish you the best of luck in your endeavor. (^-^)
So it ignited several times when i didnt want it to, and it never ignited when i wanted to. i shall rethink this ignition method. I will have to make the control console before any more tests, that stupid ignition wiring that i rigged up quite literally backfired on me. I want to see what happens with the current igniter when i add oxygen, but that will most likely result in a hard-start. for that first full test i will want to be several hundred feet away from it and test in a remote location.
You might want to run a small fuel like into the chamber to use a start pilot light it will be easier to light the the main fuel. Just put a second valve on a tee with something like a 1/4 inch copper line running right by the spark plug.
I think your current problem is that you only have fuel (propane/buthane) near the sparkplug, that is why it does not ignite. Maybe try compressed air instead of oxygen first for lower combustion temperatures and lower risk of backfiring into the oxygen tank or burning up your combustion chamber. Maybe try a low pressure test with compressed air to reduce the hard start, your combustion chamber should withstand the combustion of propane with air, since even spud-guns made from plastic tubing survive it pretty well. Running a rich fuel mixture also reduce combustion speed and reduces the hard start even further, but getting the mixture right might be an issue.
I would strongly encourage you to read "Ignition!" by John D. Clark. Oxygen and Hydrogen are very nasty substances to work with and - as the author mentions far too many times in his book - have a very strong tendency to cause explosions and nasty accidents. Judging from what I've seen in these videos, I suspect you may be strongly underestimating the magnitude and danger of the engine you're trying to build, and the issues with your design. It may seem small and weak engine, but it's big enough to become a lethal pipe bomb if anything were to go wrong. Experimenting with rockets and burning stuff is a lot of fun and a great learning experience - but there's no point in that if you blow yourself up in the process. Please read some more about the issues of handling Oxygen feedlines, and how they relate to liquid rocket engines. Oh, and stay away from Hydrogen: at this level, that's just asking for trouble (especially if you throw oxygen in the mix!)
YES, with my experiments, I first started off trying to find some transformer to use for ignition, and ideally a car ignition coil is best, but then I remembered a while back I ordered a high voltage taser/spark unit and eventually used that. I didn't have the necessary materials to create a switching current for a microwave transformer i was using.
Did ya tinkle a little bit when it "poofed"! 🤣 I jumped myself! 🤣 Oh, and it is all about the timing of the flow and spark on starting, which you now know! 👍
an accumulator tank with a electronic solenoid has some merit in this application I would think - adding oxy gets dicey unless you have the ratios very well regulated - perhaps a small shot of nitrous at the flame source?
Thank you, I'm building my own engine and couldn't figure out how to pulse the spark plug, I didn't realize a relay would work as I assumed it would just ark across.
@@RinoaL yeah, I didn't realize that when I wrote this, I also didn't relize your supposed to pulse the 12v side either. But I got it figured out now. (I think)
As I said in your other video, a baffle plate with a small mixing chamber between the inlets and the ignition source would make ignition better, prevent vortex oscillations and back pressure to your supply lines which causes pogo oscillations. Many early rockets had rapid unplanned disassembly because of these problems.
Really like your vids . I would agree the ratio for air fuel is the problem with ignition but more so due to the position the spark is ! If it could be at the other end it would be far more forgiving ! Alas this is probably why they use a long match to light as it is at a more correct mix being near the available air at the end to make up for any fine tunes ! Great work rocket lady !!!
You might add spark lower on the nozzle. Give the reactants more time to mix. Also if kero is used try generating vapor using exaust heat; stainless coil .
Love your videos. As a kid I made a hybrid rocket motor with dry propellant (mixture of KNo3 & sugar) gravity fed. Worked great for a while until the combustion back fed into my hopper, causing entire fuel to burn out. You should see the movie " October sky".
from messing with propane powered potato cannons, I can say the air fuel mixture is very picky. Also propane is heavier than air, so possibly the spark being lower in the chamber may help. the Stoichiometric air-to-fuel ratio of Propane is 15.67 : 1 6.45% - so flooding that much propane in without added oxygen is likely 'flooding' the engine Really enjoying the progress reports on this
thanks, lol. i've shelved this project because i realized i needed a workshop. workshop is nearing completion now so might be able to work on this rocket project before too long.
I think purging with fuel like the Delta could be an option for you. You flood the combustion chamber with fuel and start the spark, then slowly introduce oxygen until ignition is achieved. You may also simply not have enough gas flowing, because rockets can not sustain ignition below a certain threshold.
Yeah, exactly as you said, the limit of flammability of propane in air is very narrow. With oxygen it would be much wider, but loud pop when you hit the spark. You could use an air compressor on you oxidizer line, it wouldn’t make the flammability limits any wider, but it would establish a repeatable steady state condition once you found the exact inlet pressures that worked.
If you find that this isn't working, look into using "coil packs" instead. We use these on some of our fire effects (liquid propane with atmosphere as an oxidizer). Are you using liquid or gaseous propane? Honestly, we have had a LOT of trouble with spark ignition on liquid fuels. Your setup looks conceptually simliar to some projects we've done. Would love to compare notes!
You could also try gasoline / nitrous oxide. Small tanks of nitrous oxide are easily available. It would need a pressure regulator since the pressure in the tank is over 700 psi.
Just discovered your channel. Excellent stuff! RE: Rocket test. May I suggest instead of starting out with oxygen and propane, why don't you try plain old air from a compressor. Might give you a good idea of what the oxygen will do later. That's some powerful stuff!
You need a longer combustion chamber with an inner sleeve that sits between the chamber walls and inner combustion on the inside of the chamber to create turbulent air and it will stay in continuous thrust. Your setup might work but it could use a lot more work. I build JD-5 jet engines so you should look into getting more airflow through the combustion chamber
On a small scale experiment like this you can also run with compressed air. It doesn't have to be the much more dangerous and expensive oxygen. I built something like very much like this myself years back. Got shelved (wandered off to other projects) before trying to change to liquid fuels though. I used a single inlet pipe with a tee to act as a splitter and put compressed air in with propane and it functioned well. I did try and use oxygen but actually found no appreciable difference between them. I did not wire it for electronic start though. I just used a long lighter. I like your ignition coil hack though.
Looks like you are having the same problems i had when building my 5Kn engine's "torch igniter". 1. Keeping the power from jumping out of system to other things (in your case the grass) is a pain, cover all metal with heat shrink or similar insulation. 2. You are using all the O2 in it right away so it will not stay lit. For it to light and stay lit you must keep adding O2. Compressed air may work in your case due to you lighting the chamber directly, in my case i HAD to use pure O2. 3. I highly recommend A torch igniter set up over direct combustion chamber ignition as it is more stable. 4ish. As for worrying about it exploding, you do not need to. With such low inlet pressures and with a wide throat not a nozzle it is physically impossible to reach the levels needed to break those fittings.
I agree with the above. Sparkplug is enough for igniting the mixture, I guess even the glowplug would be enough as long as enough o2 is provided. Also I would add something to preheat the fuel (like a condenser tube submerged in hot water). Liquid propane won't ignite.
Might be easiest and cheapest just to use gasoline, Propane has a much narrower range of flammability than gasoline and much higher ignition temperature 920 degrees vs. 500 degrees for gasoline.
If you pumped in oxygen at a little lower pressure then the propane that should help. I also would recommend as soon as you turned on the ignition to have it open the oxygen solenoid. For the oxygen you could use a old fridge compressor to pump it in as they are quiet and have a extended run time. Just before you do that make sure to change the compressor oil as the normal oil will turn to acid if it meets air
I definitely had to do a lot of fiddling with the oxygen ratio on my "movie explosions" video. I was using MAPP gas and oxygen to blow up sealed tin cans. I was just using a single use ignitor made by wrapping a thin wire around two contacts a few times and plugging it in to 120VAC so it was very satisfying when I finally inserted the correct amount of oxygen.
hi ya,any chance you could give me details on what relay and cap you used in the vid and a little sketch on the way it was wired,it would be perfect for a project i'm doing
experiment on your own until you figure it out. however the parts are an old automotive relay and a 47uf cap. bigger cap could be better, its just junk i had on hand
If it were me I would start running the oxidizer first and very shortly thereafter, turn on the fuel valve. If you have too much fuel in the chamber when the O2 starts flowing, you'll get a hard start. Try using a sparkler or something pyrotechnic that already has its own solid fuel/oxidizer, that way the igniter doesn't go out before the mixing happens. Good luck!
yeah i will try using compressed air next. but i was hoping that the wind would blow the gasses out of the chamber to allow me to pop it again. but oh well.
My guess is the mixture is too rich for the spark. Try flowing compressed air through the 2nd line at a low pressure - so that the propane & air are mixing - just a "swirl" kind of action. Then spark it. This is so cool.
well i was hoping i could get it burning outside of the chamber with this test. it appears the gas in the chamber doesnt change out as fast as i would have though. and yeah i agree, compressed air would be a good test before pure oxygen.
I built one of these years ago the only way it works is if the fuel and Air is balanced in the right proportions correctly then you actually have some power and it will actually light this particular design if air and fuel ratios are incorrect will split in half for learning purposes thick wall pipe works the best with a relatively weak or thin nozzle till you can figure out correct mixtures so it has a way to release excess pressure instead of having shrapnel..
You should get a Universal 3 Position Ignition Starter Key Switch with Momentary Start and a momentary on push switch and wire it up so you require to hands to ignite the engine (as a safety feature) or dont your choice
Pretty sure most volatile stoichiometric ratio for propane & air (compressed) is like 3-5% propane 95-97% compressed air. Pure oxygen likely allows for a more rich mixture.
That relay is moving fast! I wonder how long it will last, doing that. I know that of course you will only be pressing it for a few seconds to trigger the ignition so it should be fine, but it still makes me feel bad for the poor relay.
Making a flame thrower. The key to a jet combustion engine is producing the boost or thrust /force out of it. Otherwise you have controlled flame thrower.
FWÍW: Regarding that relay you talk about at the beginning of the the video, how long will the relay operate at that high rate of switching on and off before it wears itself out? Or is it designed to do that? BTW, magnetos and distributor ignitions use a capacitor with points for the same or similar reason.
Why not use Aerostart as a fuel? It's designed to have a good flammability range and is easier to source and contain than hydrogen. Also place the spark so that it has one end in the fuel and the other in the oxidiser.
**=** Special project, and take precautions to avoid injury. I have a suggestion, you can try pump the air of exterior for the unconnected oxidizer for easy combustion in the rocket. If you try put oxidizer in the rocket, keep distant to the rocket before the test!
1. your fuel & oxy pipes could have been drilled and threaded from the side, instead of angle cut & welded 2. check valves recommended on both oxy and fuel to stop the explosion from running up the lines to the tank
1: yeah but i figure it looks cooler this way, its not a good design at all so looking cool is key. 2: already have flashback arresters on the lines, dont worry.
Hi,I love your project.drop me a note. Id like to discuss some suggestions. Ive built kerosene- LOX engines in the past. Flown homemade hybrids as well.
Hydrogen/propane rockets don't use gas, they use the liquid. So you would want a liquid aerosol in burn chamber. You get the liquid by turning gas bottle upside down
Nahhhh. This would still do nothing but allow more fuel into the combustion chamber that would then turn to vapour, which is actually necessary anyway. It is only stored as a liquid, due to obvious size constraints of storing and carrying it as a gas. A liquid does NOT combust, it is only when the liquid becomes a vapour can it combust. Be that Hydrogen (a gas at normal atmospheric pressures and temps), Propane/Butane (again, as with hydrogen) Petrol/gasoline (liquid at normal pressures and temps, but readily vaporises or evaporates) or Diesel/Kerosene/fuel oil (needs energy to evaporate/vaporise and become combustible). And of course it needs to combine with oxygen in order to be a combustible mixture, ideally at or around the stoichiometric ratio of the fuel and air. Hypergolic fuels are as I'm sure you're aware, an entirely different animal.
I don't think there's enough energy from burning gaseous propane with oxygen, but may be enough from the more denser liquid propane to create measurable thrust & use scales to perfect.
this engine isnt made to get thrust, this is only a "practice engine" tbh. its something less dangerous than cryogenic liquid fueled rocket engines but just dangerous enough to learn from.
Gas/gas rocket engines do exist, and they're quite nice, actually. In certain combustion cycles, though the fuels in the tanks are still liquid, everything going into the combustion chamber is already gaseous because of preburners used to spin the turbopumps, and it can work just fine.
You have the spark plug in the top, but propane is heavier than air so most of it is probably "falling" out thru the open bottom and doesn't reach the spark plug.
thats not exactly how that works. ya see with this i accidentally ignited the chamber when testing the spark, but then didnt let it sit long enough for the exaust to be replaced with air. waited like 5 minutes though. and i had bled the line like 8 minutes before testing spark and getting that flash, so that propane stayed in the chamber for 8 minutes.
Without the oxygen line the propane displaces all the air inside the chamber so it will not light with the spark plug. It should light with oxygen added.
Rinoa, I enjoy watching your videos but want you to not seriously hurt yourself. I would suggest you try the following modifications to your combustion chamber: Instead of sparkplug ignition, use a small welding tip on your oxy-acetylene torch handle inserted into a smaller hole. Also, use multiple smaller holes for your propane and compressed air (not pure oxygen, for now), and angle these holes so that the gases turbulently mix. Keep the large threaded exit throat of the chamber un-constricted for now. In addition to the on-off solenoid valves, follow them with needle valves with long stems for safer remote operation. With the needle valves shut off, ignite the welding tip and let the combustion chamber pre-heat. It will become cherry-red, probably, with concomitant reduction in the combustion chamber's structural strength. At this point evaluate whether to add chamber cooling, such as heat sink fins or a liquid coolant heat exchange coil around the chamber. If you wish to proceed, slowly open the propane and compressed air needle valves. An increasingly long flame will emerge as the propane and oxygen flow rates increase. The inside surface of the chamber will be quite hot by now, we can assume, and the exit nozzle will be even hotter.The iron and carbon of the steel combustion chamber will start to vaporize and burn a little bit, making a yellowish flame and sparks. At this point you could shut it down and let it cool. Examine the threads at the exit port, and if they are not all melted then do the following: take a pipe-plug that fits the exit port and drill a 1/8" hole in it. Countersink both sides of the hole to make a prototype rocket nozzle. Repeat the start-up sequence, keeping in mind that the combustion chamber will now be capable of building up some pressure. Be sure and be safely situated when you do this because you will now have a rocket engine capable of producing thrust. When (not if) it explodes it will send white hot chunks of burning steel every which way.
Hello, I have a question, how to make this stuff have any thrust? It looks like a flamethrower for now Also, have you looked about how to build a hybrid rocket engine? Its much easier
It looks like the ratio of propane to oxygen is a little off :) a quick google search yields the answer is a one to one ratio. Sooooo i guess this gives you more reason to add in the oxygen :); however, you need a way to mix the fuel inside of the combustion chamber so that the propane can mix with the oxygen and burn at the correct stoichiometric ratio. I would suggest one of two things creating multiple entries for propane gas and the oxygen or setting both gas inlets on angles so that when the pressurized gas enters the chamber is creates a vortex that should mix the gases. This will most defiantly make it easier to light the gas with the spark because if the gases (oxygen and propane) are mixed correctly 1:1 ratio the ignition temp will go down or the required input energy will be lowered. KEEP UP THE AMAZING WORK i like this series a lot. I hope this helps a little bit!
Yeah i was hoping it would burn outside of the chamber since i only had propane, but oh well. i'll try compressed air next. Oh and i plan on experimenting with injector styles on the next engine.
How can you get my wife to do things like this? I wanted to try and was thinking of using N2O and propane. Using O2 has many real problems and can be VERY bad. Is there a reason why people don't use N2O as much?
Your burn chamber doesn't allow for fuel to mix. With only one entry point for fuel and oxidizer and the igniter between the two, no amount of manual mixing will help.. nitrous oxide feed from a whip cream maker through a long transparent acrylic tube or possibly bleed the oxygen line with nitrous will help. I would suggest a steel mesh baffle kinda like they use in hybrid motors to protect the NOS fogger and then move the igniter on the outside of said mesh. Or possibly tack on a little steel mesh over the propane inlet. Then use it and the sparkplug and use that defused point to ignite. Prime with oxygen, ignite, propane¿?
You could always try for a hypergolic fuel and oxidiser combination, using kerosene and concentrated nitric acid. It was used in the early days of the Soviet space programme.
Hello! Sorry my English is bad :). Tell me, how did your rocket engine experiments end? It is very interesting to me. I also did something similar. It seems to me that your device is a burner. Rocket thrust he will not. How do you want to use this device in the future?
this engine is only a toy. I havent done any more experiments. I am building a big workshop. I will be doing more rocket experiments in 2019. hopefully Spring. sorry ^^
why not instead of propane use Petrol through an injector , this injector could be a metal spray nozzle hooked up to a pump ( I havent done any research on pumps suitable for this but if you dig around a car store or scrap yard you probably will find a fuel pump that could work ,make sure the nozzle aerosols the gas and it should be eaiser to use than propane. but dont take my word for it as i only work on solid motors like APCP and am expanding into hybrid rocket motors. Good luck and i cant wait to see some more progress ! :)
Hi I'm a engineer You really need an oxidizer. Think about a fuel injector from a cars intake system and a driver for it to regulate fuel mixture. Look like a fun project.
If the plug is above the ignition temp of your fuel air mix ratio it will. You will have to have a slower flow rate to ignite and warm the combustion chamber, but it works. After warm up it will be self sustaining. You do need to mix fuel and air/O2 before entering the chamber to ensure that correct combustible ratio. Watch out for backfiring.
a couple ideas for you maybe. i think you need a larger and hotter spark. i have a transformer that is used for igniting a oil burner type furnace. if i remember right you have one to from the furnace in your basement. Then you make something like a Jacob's ladder to light it. you could use your solar panels and electrolysis to make your own hydrogen generator. Just a couple ideas, great little experiment keep it up.
i agree the spark is weak, however i think if i bend the spark gap out i should get a longer spark and that could help. i'll do this test again but with compressed air being pushed in, and then it should eventually light.
**=** During ignition, there may be several disadvantages, the energy released by the ignition carries the plumbing to red hot, and not to mention the oxidation that can produce on the metal during hot, the rocket nozzles are probably made in ceramic, idk...
I think you should ensure proper fuel to Oxygen ratio first and then try this again. It should work U guess. Thats a very interesting project. I like to see more of it.. 👌
well im not going to add oxygen while im still in town. i was hoping it would burn outside the chamber but that pop burned up all the oxygen. i should have blown out the air.
Hi I love your project and I have a suggestion although I don’t know if it’s a ridiculous idea but could you use a glow plug for the ignition source?people will probably slate this comment! Anyway keep trying you will succeed I know it👍🏻all the best from Edinburgh,Scotland 🏴🔥🚀
No Rinoa I wasn’t thinking about it being in a pure oxygen environment so your right I think it probably would burn up,keep thinking about it you’ll get there in the end👍🏻
yes, but im building a workshop right now. will get back to this in a few months. then i should have a place to work on it and more funding since i can then stop renting storage units.
I'd recommend compressed air at least through the oxygen tube. It's using the oxygen inside the chamber and then it's starved. Also, to aid in the process maybe have a little round plate over the spark plug that's about 1/2 the diameter of the combustion chamber and stood off 1/2" from the spark plug, so that the gases sorta gather and mix there next to the spark plug for ignition. Hard to say how it would affect thrust, or if it will just melt and fall out, but at least it should get it ignited.
That's not the point. I have a electrolysis split cell system, That generates 20cfh of 99.9% hydrogen and 10cfh of 99.9% Oxygen at 2kwh. And im curious if it would run the engine on demand and just wanted numbers.
Thank you I'm a journeyman electrician and I build H2O electrolysis cells. And I've got 4stroke engines running off of them. But the engine just doesn't utilize the oxygen very well, In fact the trick to running engines off of it is dumping a bunch of the oxygen because it makes too much and reeks all kinds of havic. So I was interested in messing with a pulse jet or rocket engine and I'm trying to learn about them.
did this to fix combustion problem with wood gas fuel. Make the fuel and oxygen swirl like a vortex filtering system so the center of the vortex is centered on your ignition point. the vortex tightens when pressure is added. I used compressed air in my set up though. great build but don't loose your eye brows.
Propane (LP gas) is mostly butane. Don't use that on a cold day! Stays liquid at/below 0deg C. Gases with wider mixture ratios (hydrogen-up to 75%, methane- 15%?) would help also. Butane is about 6%. Try passing the spark thru some of the gas (likely the oxygen). It will turn the oxygen into a very reactive plasma. (Think plasma torch) A non-cooled chamber (steel or otherwise) won't last very long once combustion starts.
@@RinoaL What I saw you using for "fuel" was a BBQ tank. Those are typically LP gas. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquefied_petroleum_gas I am just say, "Be certain" about what you are using. Flaming puddles of fuel are always BAD.
Interesting project. I think you should be able to get it running with oxygen. Looks like the propane is consuming the air inside the combustion chamber around the ignition source and extinguishing the burn.
Maybe try a bit of compressed air before the oxygen?
you know what, i totally didnt think about using compressed air! i've been so focused on specific things that i didnt think of that. thanks!
Looks like you have a pulse jet
I think you are very very intelligent. Hand in hand with being a nutty professor! Good work!
Oh. And if you can.. shrink the nozzle to bring the compression up a scooch .. make another video!!
i know Im quite randomly asking but do anyone know of a good place to watch new movies online?
Can you start the propane burning and then slowly raise the oxygen? Also You probably shouldn't be using steel with oxygen since it too will burn up.
hey, good to see you here. yeah that was my plan, to get the propane burning outside the chamber and slowly add oxygen. but this will be done on my friends farm so im actually wanting it to melt. i have an old Thermovision 470 that can image up to a few thousand degrees that will be pointed at it. later on i can switch to inconel. but no sense in spending much on my first rocket if its going to blow up anyway.
fair enough. look forward to seeing it!
thanks! this project is on the shelf since im focusing on building my 15x28 workshop. hope to resume rocketry experiments this winter.
A wild Cody's Lab appears. Did you just find out about this channel yesterday too?
@Cody'sLab Maybe you can goldplate/silverplate it for her so it won't burn :)
Or at least show her how it's done. She seems to be very talented with craft projects
I've designed and built a dozen rocket engines using spark-torch igniters. Propane-gox has a reasonably wide ignitable range, no need for hydrogen. I suggest you run spark-gox-fuel at the start, then turn them off in spark-fuel-gox order. This gives ox lead and lag for minimum ignition delay and clean shutdown. With gaseous propellants and nil chamber pressure at start, the highest pressure you can produce in a hard start is about 150 psi- no hazard.
Mount your solenoids as close to the chamber as possible, the dead volumes will just cause unsteady flow. The injection orifices should be smaller than the solenoid flow areas so that the injectors control the gas flows. The injectors should at least be impinging to produce decent mixing.
Playing with fire is always fun......
Great videos. I have only watched the rocketry videos so far but I will be sure to watch more of your cool projects. Good luck and can't wait to see the fruition of these tests.
thanks! ill be resuming this project with faster pace once i get my workshop built, so expect new videos this winter!
Good morning,
I am also building a H2O2/ethanol rocket engine of my own. For your project, I suggest you not use the old plumbing parts. Even if they are made out of steel, it is corroded an might develop micro-fissures that would cause total engine failure. Also, you might want to use a convergent-divergent nozzle instead of just a convergent one.
Lox/propane is a good idea, however you need to change your mixture ratio. I'm not sure but something like 2-4 O/F is fine (needs to be ascertained however). As for hydrogen, its tricky and has a very specific ratio. However it offers a better specific impulse than other fuels (about 300sec at sea level).
The other problem you seem to be having is a low combustion chamber pressure resulting in a turbulent flow. Since you don't have a correctly sized nozzle, the exit flow can't be properly controlled either. The lack of pressure might be the cause of your failed ignition (I've tried it and it works fine on my test rig).
I suggest that you do a complete engine overhaul as to ensure better performance and safety (pressure problems sometimes result in a rapid unplanned disassembly). You can use the research already done by other NASA scientists and use the flow simulators available on their NASA.gov website (grc or jpl sections).
Others wise your project seems sound.
I hope this will be of use to you and wish you the best of luck in your endeavor.
(^-^)
So it ignited several times when i didnt want it to, and it never ignited when i wanted to. i shall rethink this ignition method. I will have to make the control console before any more tests, that stupid ignition wiring that i rigged up quite literally backfired on me. I want to see what happens with the current igniter when i add oxygen, but that will most likely result in a hard-start. for that first full test i will want to be several hundred feet away from it and test in a remote location.
You might want to run a small fuel like into the chamber to use a start pilot light it will be easier to light the the main fuel. Just put a second valve on a tee with something like a 1/4 inch copper line running right by the spark plug.
I think you need to get the the fuel/ air mixed properly before it hits the spark. Have a look at how a gas clothes dryer works.
bentboybbz dude chamber pressure.. shouldn't ignite under 60% atmospheric, that's bad
I think your current problem is that you only have fuel (propane/buthane) near the sparkplug, that is why it does not ignite.
Maybe try compressed air instead of oxygen first for lower combustion temperatures and lower risk of backfiring into the oxygen tank or burning up your combustion chamber.
Maybe try a low pressure test with compressed air to reduce the hard start, your combustion chamber should withstand the combustion of propane with air, since even spud-guns made from plastic tubing survive it pretty well.
Running a rich fuel mixture also reduce combustion speed and reduces the hard start even further, but getting the mixture right might be an issue.
I would strongly encourage you to read "Ignition!" by John D. Clark. Oxygen and Hydrogen are very nasty substances to work with and - as the author mentions far too many times in his book - have a very strong tendency to cause explosions and nasty accidents.
Judging from what I've seen in these videos, I suspect you may be strongly underestimating the magnitude and danger of the engine you're trying to build, and the issues with your design. It may seem small and weak engine, but it's big enough to become a lethal pipe bomb if anything were to go wrong.
Experimenting with rockets and burning stuff is a lot of fun and a great learning experience - but there's no point in that if you blow yourself up in the process. Please read some more about the issues of handling Oxygen feedlines, and how they relate to liquid rocket engines.
Oh, and stay away from Hydrogen: at this level, that's just asking for trouble (especially if you throw oxygen in the mix!)
This project is crazy awesome. Glad your being careful. Can't wait to see the next step
thanks! when i get my workshop built i will get back to these videos
The art of containing and directing a sustained explosion.
its a really steep learning curve...
I'm glad you working on the long distance control for this. The steep learning curve gets real cliff - like
@@RinoaL >>> ...and *avoiding* "RAPID UNPLANNED DISASSEMBLY"...😝😝😝
YES, with my experiments, I first started off trying to find some transformer to use for ignition, and ideally a car ignition coil is best, but then I remembered a while back I ordered a high voltage taser/spark unit and eventually used that. I didn't have the necessary materials to create a switching current for a microwave transformer i was using.
Thank you for showing us your failures as well as your successes cuz that's how we all learn so thanks again.
The coil set up was brilliant Rin.,,, nice job on that.
thanks!
Did ya tinkle a little bit when it "poofed"! 🤣 I jumped myself! 🤣
Oh, and it is all about the timing of the flow and spark on starting, which you now know! 👍
Women complaining about women getting interested in stem, forget that, we just need more people like you
I think you are smart and very handy. That being said, you scare me. Glad I am many miles away from your test lab. LOL
Keep at it! I've just subscribed and watched this entire series so far! This is great!
an accumulator tank with a electronic solenoid has some merit in this application I would think - adding oxy gets dicey unless you have the ratios very well regulated - perhaps a small shot of nitrous at the flame source?
Thank you, I'm building my own engine and couldn't figure out how to pulse the spark plug, I didn't realize a relay would work as I assumed it would just ark across.
Well the relay is switching the 12v side of the coil not the 10,000v side. Thus no arcing.
@@RinoaL yeah, I didn't realize that when I wrote this, I also didn't relize your supposed to pulse the 12v side either. But I got it figured out now. (I think)
You'll get there, don't worry. And if you do it wrong either nothing will happen or too much will happen hahaha
As I said in your other video, a baffle plate with a small mixing chamber between the inlets and the ignition source would make ignition better, prevent vortex oscillations and back pressure to your supply lines which causes pogo oscillations.
Many early rockets had rapid unplanned disassembly because of these problems.
I like the idea of using propane or even methane much more than Hydrogen, keep on it! Cool project
thanks, i might be able to get almost free methane from my local dump.
Really like your vids . I would agree the ratio for air fuel is the problem with ignition but more so due to the position the spark is ! If it could be at the other end it would be far more forgiving ! Alas this is probably why they use a long match to light as it is at a more correct mix being near the available air at the end to make up for any fine tunes ! Great work rocket lady !!!
You might add spark lower on the nozzle. Give the reactants more time to mix. Also if kero is used try generating vapor using exaust heat; stainless coil .
Love your videos. As a kid I made a hybrid rocket motor with dry propellant (mixture of KNo3 & sugar) gravity fed. Worked great for a while until the combustion back fed into my hopper, causing entire fuel to burn out. You should see the movie " October sky".
i saw October Sky in the theatre when it first came out.
from messing with propane powered potato cannons, I can say the air fuel mixture is very picky. Also propane is heavier than air, so possibly the spark being lower in the chamber may help.
the Stoichiometric air-to-fuel ratio of Propane is 15.67 : 1 6.45% - so flooding that much propane in without added oxygen is likely 'flooding' the engine
Really enjoying the progress reports on this
Couldn’t read all the comments, but keep the battery on a peice of wood when resting on the ground. Keep up the experimenting!
no reason to put it on wood. surely you dont believe in that old myth of what you set a battery on can drain it? thats simply not true anymore.
I never knew Rosanne was so into rockets. Ha.
In all seriousness, this is really cool. Good job and keep making progress. Mostly skookum. :)
thanks, lol. i've shelved this project because i realized i needed a workshop. workshop is nearing completion now so might be able to work on this rocket project before too long.
I think purging with fuel like the Delta could be an option for you. You flood the combustion chamber with fuel and start the spark, then slowly introduce oxygen until ignition is achieved. You may also simply not have enough gas flowing, because rockets can not sustain ignition below a certain threshold.
I think you can also use a light dimmer switch switch to fire the coil. New one work on the pulse with modulation.
Yeah, exactly as you said, the limit of flammability of propane in air is very narrow. With oxygen it would be much wider, but loud pop when you hit the spark. You could use an air compressor on you oxidizer line, it wouldn’t make the flammability limits any wider, but it would establish a repeatable steady state condition once you found the exact inlet pressures that worked.
If you want to see a spark system. Look up Top Fuel dragster ignitions. Looks more like an electric flame. Awesome. Nice video, thank you.
If you find that this isn't working, look into using "coil packs" instead. We use these on some of our fire effects (liquid propane with atmosphere as an oxidizer).
Are you using liquid or gaseous propane? Honestly, we have had a LOT of trouble with spark ignition on liquid fuels. Your setup looks conceptually simliar to some projects we've done. Would love to compare notes!
You could also try gasoline / nitrous oxide. Small tanks of nitrous oxide are easily available. It would need a pressure regulator since the pressure in the tank is over 700 psi.
Just discovered your channel. Excellent stuff! RE: Rocket test. May I suggest instead of starting out with oxygen and propane, why don't you try plain old air from a compressor. Might give you a good idea of what the oxygen will do later. That's some powerful stuff!
yeh others have suggested that and its a good idea
you need a bigger combustion chamber with a smaller nozzle and lower pressure / less fuel.
Hi there!!! great project, how is it going?!?!? please, tell us!!!
project on hold since im building a big workshop. i hope to resume this winter
You need a longer combustion chamber with an inner sleeve that sits between the chamber walls and inner combustion on the inside of the chamber to create turbulent air and it will stay in continuous thrust. Your setup might work but it could use a lot more work. I build JD-5 jet engines so you should look into getting more airflow through the combustion chamber
On a small scale experiment like this you can also run with compressed air. It doesn't have to be the much more dangerous and expensive oxygen. I built something like very much like this myself years back. Got shelved (wandered off to other projects) before trying to change to liquid fuels though. I used a single inlet pipe with a tee to act as a splitter and put compressed air in with propane and it functioned well. I did try and use oxygen but actually found no appreciable difference between them. I did not wire it for electronic start though. I just used a long lighter. I like your ignition coil hack though.
Looks like you are having the same problems i had when building my 5Kn engine's "torch igniter". 1. Keeping the power from jumping out of system to other things (in your case the grass) is a pain, cover all metal with heat shrink or similar insulation. 2. You are using all the O2 in it right away so it will not stay lit. For it to light and stay lit you must keep adding O2. Compressed air may work in your case due to you lighting the chamber directly, in my case i HAD to use pure O2. 3. I highly recommend A torch igniter set up over direct combustion chamber ignition as it is more stable. 4ish. As for worrying about it exploding, you do not need to. With such low inlet pressures and with a wide throat not a nozzle it is physically impossible to reach the levels needed to break those fittings.
I agree with the above. Sparkplug is enough for igniting the mixture, I guess even the glowplug would be enough as long as enough o2 is provided. Also I would add something to preheat the fuel (like a condenser tube submerged in hot water). Liquid propane won't ignite.
You can make hydrogen really easy and cheap with water, sodium hydroxide, and scrap aluminium.
id need liquified hydrogen, and tens of gallons of it though.
Might be easiest and cheapest just to use gasoline, Propane has a much narrower range of flammability than gasoline and much higher ignition temperature 920 degrees vs. 500 degrees for gasoline.
i'd use Kerosene not gasoline, but gasoline isnt a gas so it wont work for what im doing right now anyway.
@@RinoaL Gasoline is a liquid, or is it not the same thing as petrol?
If you pumped in oxygen at a little lower pressure then the propane that should help. I also would recommend as soon as you turned on the ignition to have it open the oxygen solenoid. For the oxygen you could use a old fridge compressor to pump it in as they are quiet and have a extended run time. Just before you do that make sure to change the compressor oil as the normal oil will turn to acid if it meets air
I definitely had to do a lot of fiddling with the oxygen ratio on my "movie explosions" video. I was using MAPP gas and oxygen to blow up sealed tin cans. I was just using a single use ignitor made by wrapping a thin wire around two contacts a few times and plugging it in to 120VAC so it was very satisfying when I finally inserted the correct amount of oxygen.
that sounds like something youd do. hahaha :p
Well, my film friend wanted an effect, It had to be done
of course. haha
hi ya,any chance you could give me details on what relay and cap you used in the vid and a little sketch on the way it was wired,it would be perfect for a project i'm doing
experiment on your own until you figure it out. however the parts are an old automotive relay and a 47uf cap. bigger cap could be better, its just junk i had on hand
will do
Huh, this really explains why my liquid fuel potato launcher didn’t fire. Thanks for the good explanation
If it were me I would start running the oxidizer first and very shortly thereafter, turn on the fuel valve. If you have too much fuel in the chamber when the O2 starts flowing, you'll get a hard start. Try using a sparkler or something pyrotechnic that already has its own solid fuel/oxidizer, that way the igniter doesn't go out before the mixing happens. Good luck!
yeah i will try using compressed air next. but i was hoping that the wind would blow the gasses out of the chamber to allow me to pop it again. but oh well.
My guess is the mixture is too rich for the spark. Try flowing compressed air through the 2nd line at a low pressure - so that the propane & air are mixing - just a "swirl" kind of action. Then spark it. This is so cool.
well i was hoping i could get it burning outside of the chamber with this test. it appears the gas in the chamber doesnt change out as fast as i would have though. and yeah i agree, compressed air would be a good test before pure oxygen.
I would make the gap much wider and protrude more. It does look like you have lots of current to drive it.
I built one of these years ago the only way it works is if the fuel and Air is balanced in the right proportions correctly then you actually have some power and it will actually light this particular design if air and fuel ratios are incorrect will split in half for learning purposes thick wall pipe works the best with a relatively weak or thin nozzle till you can figure out correct mixtures so it has a way to release excess pressure instead of having shrapnel..
You should get a Universal 3 Position Ignition Starter Key Switch with Momentary Start and a momentary on push switch and wire it up so you require to hands to ignite the engine (as a safety feature) or dont your choice
Pretty sure most volatile stoichiometric ratio for propane & air (compressed) is like 3-5% propane 95-97% compressed air. Pure oxygen likely allows for a more rich mixture.
That relay is moving fast! I wonder how long it will last, doing that. I know that of course you will only be pressing it for a few seconds to trigger the ignition so it should be fine, but it still makes me feel bad for the poor relay.
well it isnt completing the switch, it isnt moving enough to connect to the other pin, so maybe it will last longer.
Amazing video ❤
Making a flame thrower. The key to a jet combustion engine is producing the boost or thrust /force out of it. Otherwise you have controlled flame thrower.
FWÍW: Regarding that relay you talk about at the beginning of the the video, how long will the relay operate at that high rate of switching on and off before it wears itself out? Or is it designed to do that?
BTW, magnetos and distributor ignitions use a capacitor with points for the same or similar reason.
it should last for a few hours of operation. either way it was a surplus relay i got for like 75 cents last time i was in silicon valley.
@@RinoaL >>> In that case..
👍👍
Why not use Aerostart as a fuel? It's designed to have a good flammability range and is easier to source and contain than hydrogen. Also place the spark so that it has one end in the fuel and the other in the oxidiser.
**=** Special project, and take precautions to avoid injury.
I have a suggestion, you can try pump the air of exterior for the unconnected oxidizer for easy combustion in the rocket.
If you try put oxidizer in the rocket, keep distant to the rocket before the test!
1. your fuel & oxy pipes could have been drilled and threaded from the side, instead of angle cut & welded 2. check valves recommended on both oxy and fuel to stop the explosion from running up the lines to the tank
1: yeah but i figure it looks cooler this way, its not a good design at all so looking cool is key.
2: already have flashback arresters on the lines, dont worry.
Looks really cool!
Hi,I love your project.drop me a note. Id like to discuss some suggestions. Ive built kerosene- LOX engines in the past. Flown homemade hybrids as well.
Hydrogen/propane rockets don't use gas, they use the liquid. So you would want a liquid aerosol in burn chamber. You get the liquid by turning gas bottle upside down
Nahhhh. This would still do nothing but allow more fuel into the combustion chamber that would then turn to vapour, which is actually necessary anyway. It is only stored as a liquid, due to obvious size constraints of storing and carrying it as a gas. A liquid does NOT combust, it is only when the liquid becomes a vapour can it combust. Be that Hydrogen (a gas at normal atmospheric pressures and temps), Propane/Butane (again, as with hydrogen) Petrol/gasoline (liquid at normal pressures and temps, but readily vaporises or evaporates) or Diesel/Kerosene/fuel oil (needs energy to evaporate/vaporise and become combustible). And of course it needs to combine with oxygen in order to be a combustible mixture, ideally at or around the stoichiometric ratio of the fuel and air.
Hypergolic fuels are as I'm sure you're aware, an entirely different animal.
I don't think there's enough energy from burning gaseous propane with oxygen, but may be enough from the more denser liquid propane to create measurable thrust & use scales to perfect.
this engine isnt made to get thrust, this is only a "practice engine" tbh. its something less dangerous than cryogenic liquid fueled rocket engines but just dangerous enough to learn from.
Gas/gas rocket engines do exist, and they're quite nice, actually. In certain combustion cycles, though the fuels in the tanks are still liquid, everything going into the combustion chamber is already gaseous because of preburners used to spin the turbopumps, and it can work just fine.
I wonder how long a relay like that will last at that frequency?
kinda dont care, i have a box of random relays i got for like 20 cents each surplus
Rinoa Super-Genius yeah I see that’s cool but I still wonder how long and being low current it may last a fair while between the contacts .
Blow glass with propane and oxygen. Cool I like what ur doing. People need to learn really things like this and teach it more
You have the spark plug in the top, but propane is heavier than air so most of it is probably "falling" out thru the open bottom and doesn't reach the spark plug.
thats not exactly how that works. ya see with this i accidentally ignited the chamber when testing the spark, but then didnt let it sit long enough for the exaust to be replaced with air. waited like 5 minutes though. and i had bled the line like 8 minutes before testing spark and getting that flash, so that propane stayed in the chamber for 8 minutes.
Saturn 5, F1 engines used spark ignition to start the turbo pumps which in turn caused the whole damn thing to ignite.
oh really? that makes sense.
You should study a liquid burning space heater. They are essentially what you are trying to build.
no, liquid burning space heaters dont use liquid oxygen.
Try a 555 IC timing circuit on the igniter.
why? this relay is simpler and more reliable.
Have you tried oxygen/acetylene?
I saw a video the other day that showed that a standard plug wire has so much resistance that it dampens the spark. Try # 8 wire see what that does
Without the oxygen line the propane displaces all the air inside the chamber so it will not light with the spark plug. It should light with oxygen added.
The reason you got shocked is because the capacitor can hold high voltage electric current for some time. Discharge it before handling it
This is great. I want more!
Rinoa, I enjoy watching your videos but want you to not seriously hurt yourself. I would suggest you try the following modifications to your combustion chamber: Instead of sparkplug ignition, use a small welding tip on your oxy-acetylene torch handle inserted into a smaller hole. Also, use multiple smaller holes for your propane and compressed air (not pure oxygen, for now), and angle these holes so that the gases turbulently mix. Keep the large threaded exit throat of the chamber un-constricted for now. In addition to the on-off solenoid valves, follow them with needle valves with long stems for safer remote operation. With the needle valves shut off, ignite the welding tip and let the combustion chamber pre-heat. It will become cherry-red, probably, with concomitant reduction in the combustion chamber's structural strength. At this point evaluate whether to add chamber cooling, such as heat sink fins or a liquid coolant heat exchange coil around the chamber. If you wish to proceed, slowly open the propane and compressed air needle valves. An increasingly long flame will emerge as the propane and oxygen flow rates increase. The inside surface of the chamber will be quite hot by now, we can assume, and the exit nozzle will be even hotter.The iron and carbon of the steel combustion chamber will start to vaporize and burn a little bit, making a yellowish flame and sparks. At this point you could shut it down and let it cool. Examine the threads at the exit port, and if they are not all melted then do the following: take a pipe-plug that fits the exit port and drill a 1/8" hole in it. Countersink both sides of the hole to make a prototype rocket nozzle. Repeat the start-up sequence, keeping in mind that the combustion chamber will now be capable of building up some pressure. Be sure and be safely situated when you do this because you will now have a rocket engine capable of producing thrust. When (not if) it explodes it will send white hot chunks of burning steel every which way.
could also use a standard honeywell oil burner ignition system. They are cheap.
Hello, I have a question, how to make this stuff have any thrust? It looks like a flamethrower for now
Also, have you looked about how to build a hybrid rocket engine? Its much easier
It looks like the ratio of propane to oxygen is a little off :) a quick google search yields the answer is a one to one ratio. Sooooo i guess this gives you more reason to add in the oxygen :); however, you need a way to mix the fuel inside of the combustion chamber so that the propane can mix with the oxygen and burn at the correct stoichiometric ratio. I would suggest one of two things creating multiple entries for propane gas and the oxygen or setting both gas inlets on angles so that when the pressurized gas enters the chamber is creates a vortex that should mix the gases. This will most defiantly make it easier to light the gas with the spark because if the gases (oxygen and propane) are mixed correctly 1:1 ratio the ignition temp will go down or the required input energy will be lowered. KEEP UP THE AMAZING WORK i like this series a lot. I hope this helps a little bit!
Yeah i was hoping it would burn outside of the chamber since i only had propane, but oh well. i'll try compressed air next.
Oh and i plan on experimenting with injector styles on the next engine.
How can you get my wife to do things like this? I wanted to try and was thinking of using N2O and propane. Using O2 has many real problems and can be VERY bad. Is there a reason why people don't use N2O as much?
not as powerful, more expensive.
Wow, that is a really good spark! Ha, grounding out in grass, nice! Wish it was that easy burn larger unwanted plants!
Your burn chamber doesn't allow for fuel to mix. With only one entry point for fuel and oxidizer and the igniter between the two, no amount of manual mixing will help.. nitrous oxide feed from a whip cream maker through a long transparent acrylic tube or possibly bleed the oxygen line with nitrous will help.
I would suggest a steel mesh baffle kinda like they use in hybrid motors to protect the NOS fogger and then move the igniter on the outside of said mesh.
Or possibly tack on a little steel mesh over the propane inlet. Then use it and the sparkplug and use that defused point to ignite. Prime with oxygen, ignite, propane¿?
💙
👽 I love your videos
Even if it was a fail you got to know that some thing was wrong & I know that you can fix it!🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
yeah it was still a win over all.
@@RinoaL you definitely did better than me!I haven't even started to try to make something like that.
You could always try for a hypergolic fuel and oxidiser combination, using kerosene and concentrated nitric acid. It was used in the early days of the Soviet space programme.
Hypergolic is extremely dangerous it wouldn't be worth the risk.
Hello! Sorry my English is bad :). Tell me, how did your rocket engine experiments end? It is very interesting to me. I also did something similar. It seems to me that your device is a burner. Rocket thrust he will not. How do you want to use this device in the future?
this engine is only a toy. I havent done any more experiments. I am building a big workshop. I will be doing more rocket experiments in 2019. hopefully Spring. sorry ^^
I understand. Good. But you need to change the design and principle of the engine. Of course, if you want to continue to experiment.
why not instead of propane use Petrol through an injector , this injector could be a metal spray nozzle hooked up to a pump ( I havent done any research on pumps suitable for this but if you dig around a car store or scrap yard you probably will find a fuel pump that could work ,make sure the nozzle aerosols the gas and it should be eaiser to use than propane.
but dont take my word for it as i only work on solid motors like APCP and am expanding into hybrid rocket motors.
Good luck and i cant wait to see some more progress ! :)
because then id need liquid oxygen
Hi I'm a engineer
You really need an oxidizer.
Think about a fuel injector from a cars intake system and a driver for it to regulate fuel mixture.
Look like a fun project.
nope, dont need oxidizer just to test ignition
where is the air come in? fuel and air mix then explode
Think along the lines of glow plugs?
wont create ignition without pressure
If the plug is above the ignition temp of your fuel air mix ratio it will. You will have to have a slower flow rate to ignite and warm the combustion chamber, but it works. After warm up it will be self sustaining. You do need to mix fuel and air/O2 before entering the chamber to ensure that correct combustible ratio. Watch out for backfiring.
a couple ideas for you maybe. i think you need a larger and hotter spark. i have a transformer that is used for igniting a oil burner type furnace. if i remember right you have one to from the furnace in your basement. Then you make something like a Jacob's ladder to light it. you could use your solar panels and electrolysis to make your own hydrogen generator.
Just a couple ideas, great little experiment keep it up.
i agree the spark is weak, however i think if i bend the spark gap out i should get a longer spark and that could help. i'll do this test again but with compressed air being pushed in, and then it should eventually light.
**=** During ignition, there may be several disadvantages, the energy released by the ignition carries the plumbing to red hot, and not to mention the oxidation that can produce on the metal during hot, the rocket nozzles are probably made in ceramic, idk...
I think you should ensure proper fuel to Oxygen ratio first and then try this again. It should work U guess. Thats a very interesting project. I like to see more of it.. 👌
well im not going to add oxygen while im still in town. i was hoping it would burn outside the chamber but that pop burned up all the oxygen. i should have blown out the air.
@@RinoaL few holes around the combustion chamber will help??
Hi I love your project and I have a suggestion although I don’t know if it’s a ridiculous idea but could you use a glow plug for the ignition source?people will probably slate this comment! Anyway keep trying you will succeed I know it👍🏻all the best from Edinburgh,Scotland 🏴🔥🚀
many people have suggested it. i worry a glow plug will just burn up in pure oxygen. but perhaps i should try anyway!
No Rinoa I wasn’t thinking about it being in a pure oxygen environment so your right I think it probably would burn up,keep thinking about it you’ll get there in the end👍🏻
Hey, will you continue this project? It's been a few month since your last update. I'd be very interested in the outcome of this project.
yes, but im building a workshop right now. will get back to this in a few months. then i should have a place to work on it and more funding since i can then stop renting storage units.
I'd recommend compressed air at least through the oxygen tube. It's using the oxygen inside the chamber and then it's starved.
Also, to aid in the process maybe have a little round plate over the spark plug that's about 1/2 the diameter of the combustion chamber and stood off 1/2" from the spark plug, so that the gases sorta gather and mix there next to the spark plug for ignition.
Hard to say how it would affect thrust, or if it will just melt and fall out, but at least it should get it ignited.
A giant match is always a good idea
Acetylene has one of the broadest combustable mix ratios.
its also very low pressure, and very expensive.
Maybe you could use automobile injectors and automobile pump for further atomization of fuel(kerosene).
Do you have a good number on exactly how much gas your using in 1hr?
1hr? who on earth would run it for an hour?
That's not the point. I have a electrolysis split cell system, That generates 20cfh of 99.9% hydrogen and 10cfh of 99.9% Oxygen at 2kwh. And im curious if it would run the engine on demand and just wanted numbers.
@@electrolysisresearch8013 a full tank every 30 seconds during full power.
Thank you I'm a journeyman electrician and I build H2O electrolysis cells. And I've got 4stroke engines running off of them. But the engine just doesn't utilize the oxygen very well, In fact the trick to running engines off of it is dumping a bunch of the oxygen because it makes too much and reeks all kinds of havic. So I was interested in messing with a pulse jet or rocket engine and I'm trying to learn about them.
A torch is lit with oxygen full open, then Acetylene ajusted in. Maybe try that with your mix ?
wow you are way off, a torch is lit with acetylene on not oxygen. what would burn if it was just the oxygen? the metal?
Thar grass make me think of the Kirlian photos (maybe something to try for a project since You allredy hawe the ignition coil)?
did this to fix combustion problem with wood gas fuel. Make the fuel and oxygen swirl like a vortex filtering system so the center of the vortex is centered on your ignition point. the vortex tightens when pressure is added. I used compressed air in my set up though. great build but don't loose your eye brows.
Is it possible to test the thrust when it is ready?
i plan to incorporate a thrust sensor in the test stand. however this engine will never produce much thrust, the 2nd one should though.
Propane (LP gas) is mostly butane. Don't use that on a cold day! Stays liquid at/below 0deg C.
Gases with wider mixture ratios (hydrogen-up to 75%, methane- 15%?) would help also. Butane is about 6%.
Try passing the spark thru some of the gas (likely the oxygen). It will turn the oxygen into a very reactive plasma. (Think plasma torch)
A non-cooled chamber (steel or otherwise) won't last very long once combustion starts.
can you supply information to back up that claim? from my experience propane is mostly (shockingly) propane, and stays pressurized even down to -20
@@RinoaL
If you are north of 45 latitude, it may be mostly propane. Here at 37 N, it is 60% butane.
you do realize propane and butane are different gasses right? are you saying they reconfigure depending on latitude? thats a bit silly really
@@RinoaL
What I saw you using for "fuel" was a BBQ tank. Those are typically LP gas.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquefied_petroleum_gas
I am just say, "Be certain" about what you are using. Flaming puddles of fuel are always BAD.
idk, i expect to have a pretty big flaming puddle of kerosene in later tests.