Islam, Immigration, Secularism, & More w/Andy Ngo & Eric Kaufmann | Spectrum Street Epistemology
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- Опубліковано 2 чер 2024
- Author and journalist Andy Ngo and Professor Eric Kaufmann participated in a Spectrum Street Epistemology exercise in London. The conversation starts with a claim about banning Muslim prayer rituals in public schools. It continues by asking whether the UK should impose a five-year moratorium on immigration, a current debate in the country. This opened up a broader conversation about immigration, cultural assimilation, and national identity. Finally, they examine the question of whether the UK should surrender its current way of life if a majority of the population becomes Muslim in the coming decades.
Andy Ngo is the author of the #1 national bestseller, Unmasked: Inside Antifa’s Radical Plan to Destroy Democracy. His articles can be found in The Wall Street Journal, Newsweek, Quillette, New York Post, Fox News, and other publications. Andy is Senior Editor at The Post Millennial.
Andy's previous interview on Peter's channel: • The Cost of Unmasking ...
Andy on Locals: ngolocals.com/
Andy on X: / mrandyngo
Dr. Eric Kaufmann is a Professor of Politics at the University of Buckingham. Originally from Vancouver, BC, Canada, he was born in Hong Kong and spent most of the last few decades in the UK. He is principally interested in cultural politics: ethnicity, national identity, left-wing ideology and religion, and has written extensively on these subjects.
Eric's interview on Peter's channel: • Are Multiculturalism a...
Follow Eric on X: / epkaufm
Eric’s website: www.sneps.net/
Chapters
0:00 Intro
1:00 Claim about Islam
2:40 Claims about immigration
14:35 Claims about religion in British society
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After this video, check out my separate interviews with Andy and Eric:
Andy: ua-cam.com/video/KCXu8ax1QOo/v-deo.html
Eric: ua-cam.com/video/TlzLQO6bRdM/v-deo.html
👋
Andy Ngo? The known associate of the Proud Boys? That Andy Ngo?
@@user-pj5ub5cp9k A cretin! We caught another cretin!
So racist and so stupid that 3 white men would immediately conclude that a non properly educated non white man was the one that shouldn't be flying the plane. Last time I checked white men have predominantly been at the helm when planes crashed. Won't be watching anything else from this channel. Closet racism on full display.
Peter, have you ask aron bastani to come in? He is a pretty reasonable leftist
Thank you for having me participate in this project, Peter.
I wonder if you have the same sentiment for the Palestinians to fight the foreign occupiers that have invaded their lands?
Islamophobic or trying for citizenship
Andy, you are brave man, thank you for doing your best to stand up and tell the truth, even when you have faced physical violence.
@@nomadconnects5041Judaism predates Islam. So who are the foreign invaders?
@@erikkovacs3097 Israel is the other name of Jacob and refers to a tribe not a land. Palestine or Filistine is the name of the land. Additionally the ancient Hebrew’s mostly accepted Islam. Modern day Palestinians are decendents of Jacob and his 12 sons. Thats why it’s illegal to do a DNA test in Historical Palestine. Netanyahu and his people have almost zero ancestral ties to the land.
This program is really a breath of fresh air. Pleasure to watch every time.
Kaufmann is incredibly naive about islam and muslims.
I agree. People in the new continent in general seem to have very much not realistic view of this religion.
Agreed. When he moved to Agree during the can Islam be secularized question, I realized that he didn't have a lot of clarity about Islam. Iran was briefly secularized and look what happened there. Islam by it's very essence cannot be secularized on a large enough scale for long enough to make a difference. Islam by it's very essence is also a religion which makes spreading its presence make Jehovah's witnesses look like rank amateurs.
@@anynimus1617 Yes, Iran was indeed secularized. It took a totalitarian Islamist regime terrorizing the public into submission for years to have them... still be the most western-friendly of populations of Muslims countries. Iranians like the western values of secularism, personal freedom and democracy, and they very much like Americans. They just don't like the American government, and who can blame them?
Andy Ngo - Mr. Menno. Two of my favorite guys in a few days. They both have massive balls. Especially Andy.
Glad you have Andy on, it must be a huge relief for him to be able just to walk down the street in London instead of Portland
You kinda reap what you sow, no?
@@freddieoblivion6122 If Andy got what he deserved all of Rose city antifa would be locked up and mayor Wheeler would give him the key to the city.
@@freddieoblivion6122
are you implying that journalists should expect violent retaliation?
@@freddieoblivion6122 Exposing the truth is cause for a beat down or worse?
Sounds like antifa ideology - silence anyone who doesn't fall in lock step with your dogma.
If only . . .@@freddieoblivion6122
There is a difference between a migrant and a refugee.
Andy, love his tenacity, truth-seeking and bravery.
Yay I love Andy Ngo! Great to see him, looking forward to this
Exactly! Fight for Britain till the end! Never Surrender!!
Lol, they have already surrendered
Love these clips. 💚 Thank you Peter.
🔥 We love your street epistemology videos! Thanks for sharing
I believe those immigration numbers (~750K) are net migration. However, the game being played when this value is published by government sources is that the people leaving are mostly British natives and the people coming in are mostly from cultures hostile to the UK cultural values, who want to keep their culture while reaping the benefits of the UK culture; not ones wanting to assimilate.
Peter, you just made my 20-minute commute home a real pleasure!
Peter, you are my new second-favourite person. Keep up the good work, sir. We need you.
Thank you!
Wow, I’d never seen this variation of the game where an identical position between interlocutors results in a coin toss to decide who has to then play devil’s advocate. As someone who designs games as part of their living, I’m impressed by the cleverness and simplicity of such a move. Bravo, I hope this catches on
He did the same thing 2 days ago in ua-cam.com/video/7nh7tbo4Jxs/v-deo.htmlsi=w723uwS9mq6hQS9m&t=1123
Anyone who knows history will understand that liberal western individualistic values never stood a chance in the face of islam.
I do prefer celebrity epistemology, compared to the street version.
true, it's people who have already given the issues some thought.
Refreshing. This is why I don't have a TV licence and just watch UA-cam.
I'm glad you found some brave folks at last - I do wonder how many of your previous guests ran for the door.
Keep'em coming.
Excellent well thought out comments here. Not allowed on UK television. Hmmm.
700k was the net migration figure. The gross figure was 1.2m.
Brilliant x
Suggestion: The mats on the floor should be oriented towards the front of the screen so people can easily see that they display a spectrum from strongly agree to strongly disagree. With neutral in the center. Many people who see this and other videos will not yet be familiar with how this works!
We have totally lost control of our borders - which is a disaster. But we should restrict immigration to those who have a positive contribution and not take jobs from our own. Andy is becoming very Anglicised. How long before he takes up hunting?
UK schools have never been secular. We always did prayers and hymns in school.
How old are you because yes there was but not always
I mean it's been legally compulsory since 1944, but it was probably prevalent and just formalised then @@resolecca
Schools stopped doing prays and christian values without telling anyone. I went to three schools in the 90s that never did prays. My children's schools dont do christian values and prays even thoe the Law says they should.
As a fan of yours for many years now, I have to point out that having someone arguing a point they don't agree with is a good exercise for debating skills. But wouldn't it be much better if you get people with actually very different opinion to argue for what they actually believe? Opening up a dialog, encouraging people to expose themselves to different opinions, instead of sitting in info bubbles?
It's definitely something you excell at. 🖖
as Pete mentioned, he has tried every which way to get these people with opposing views to participate and they simply refuse.
@@DaniToftecorrect
On the question about Britain surrendering to Muslims once they reach a certain population threshold, I think a different framing would be helpful.
First example: consider Nazi Germany. Once the Nazis took over and the majority of the country claimed allegiance to Hitler, I would argue that the minority in that case should not have surrendered (and I'm not saying they necessarily did, but most turned a blind eye at the very least). When I say "should not", I mean from an ethical standpoint, not from a survivability standpoint. Instead, they should continue to advocate for what is just and moral because without those principals having a voice, even if very small, they stand no chance of manifesting.
Second example: consider slavery. There was a time when the vast majority of people thought it was perfectly just and moral to own slaves. And yet at the same time, even then there were a minority of forward thinking people that recognized it as the horrible thing that it was. They did not "surrender" and instead, continued fighting and advocating until their position gained enough critical mass to eventually end the practice.
I'm not sure what terminology to use here but if we truly believe that our western values have a stronger moral leg to stand on than Islamic values, then we should never surrender no matter how outnumbered we may be. If our own short term survivability is the single metric we are talking about, then sure, surrender might be best. But if we are talking about the longer term survivability of our values themselves, and the responsibility we as moral humans have to advocate for what is just and moral, then we should never surrender our values and should tirelessly advocate for them.
And honestly, I think the better question would be: what good reason could be given for why we should surrender outside of our own short term survivability? Hard for me to come up with one.
They should leave for eastern Europe and let the muslims face the new pakistan lile 🍑🕳️ they have yet again created. Perhaps they will finally get their ideas dont work.
I googled "last jew in..." And got: In March 2022 the United Nations reported there is just one Jew in Yemen (Levi Salem Marhabi) jewish population in iran in 2018 was estimated 12000 -15000 in 2023 it's 9000. In the quran the explicit instructions are to go after non believers and Jews are called by name but the Muslim saying is "first the Saturday people then the Sunday people" (Saturday sabbath Sunday mass) last jew left Afghanistan in 2019. Iran was Persian so zoroastrian then Christian and now everyone thinks it was always the mess it is today when the west it full of iranians who escaped islam still living here trying to warn everyone it's coming here and are getting called names for it instead of being listened to. If you actually research muslim majority countries and their even recent histories it's obvious they are almost done with Saturday people already and we are still debating how to stay politically correct about it.
The consequences are a bit different though. In your examples, it's about a majority doing something a minority disagrees with.
In the question of surrendering to Islam, it's not just doing things the minority disagrees with. It's about wiping out a way of life (British), that of the minority, forever.
This one was so much better than the ones he does with random people on the street. Everything these guys said was worth hearing, while the ones with random people are just kind of predictable and obvious.
Does Peter play the guitar in the theme tune?
A bit of a rant, but the first question about whether prayer rituals should be generally banned in schools doesn't make sense in the UK. It also reveals a fundamental difference between the US and UK approach to rights, their conflicts, and freedom of religion/secularism. The US culturally/legally has a 'categorical' abstract approach to rights based on the constitution, nationally interpreted by the SC (almost like priests) i.e. a "right to pray in schools" in all cases, found in the first amendment. Given the almost sacred universality of the constitution, this spills over to the societal understanding of what rights are, and that they are more 'real' and better discussed in an abstract/general way, not just as legal entitlements but fundamental truths about human existence. In the UK rights aren't based on blanket rules, rather it is about fact-specific case-by-case adjudications of 'proportionality' given a specific context. This approach does not assume a predefined abstract right, but assesses each situation based on its merits and the facts at hand. And given the lack of judicial supremacy and Parliamentary sovereignty, it is recognised that societally, rights are at least partly based in political negotiation/settlement.
Taking the Michaela school case as an example, the prayer ban was considered a legitimate infringement of the Freedom of Religion (note the infringement is taken as a given), because it was based on a policy that was known about, and the school had a known, consistently applied, muscular secular ethos. It was also relevant that being in London, the parent/student had viable choices to go to a school that allows prayer. Unlike the US (and France), religious state schools (CoE, Catholic, Muslim, Jewish) and secular schools are all allowed in UK, most are a mix. The closest you can get to a US-style formulation based on that case is - "you don't have the right to change a legitimate school prayer policy, if you entered into it knowingly, and you have viable alternative options." This doesn't change the fact that in other schools you can pray, and you may even have the right to pray if a policy is arbitrary/unfair and doesn't have a valid justification.
The categorical approach raises the stakes of rights conflicts by rejecting the idea that rights can conflict, they are just 'misinterpreted', and necessitates that an entire group has to 'win' or 'lose' over the other in a zero-sum way, and in the US the constitution is seen to contain what rights literally are in a universal sense, not just legally. The proportionality/case-by-case approach prioritizes dealing with the realities/facts of a situation over abstract formulations, and localizes disputes between both parties rather than inflaming them to a societal/national level. It also doesn't require judges to pontificate a universal decree on the true/correct/fundamental meaning of rights beyond a purely legal sense and their application in reality, allowing for a more nuanced understandings to be reflected in law, and leaving cultural/ethical values to society, not judges.
"Secular national ethos in schools"
How does that work in a multi cultured society? What ethos is the school's ethos based on? Looking at the US school system, there is an absence of any ethos in their schools.
secular pluralism is neutral
Check out the Michaela Community School, a free school established in 2014 in Wembley Park, London
@wade2bosh I recognise pluralism, no problem. I just don't allow it to influence me...
See that bloke over there? What is he wearing and what's with those beliefs. I recognise him... his name is Jonathan. Shall I follow his beliefs.. nah, but I do recognise him.
Secular Pluralism only works if no values contradict each other. No problem with schools having an anti bullying policy? ... but that Viking family believes in strength, which means you are right. That Thor bloke, they pray to, has an ethos of bullying is good.
Some values do overlap. Whose wins in secular pluralism school? It's playing out in our schools today.
Don't accept a multi cultural society and enforce assimilation.
One of the most considered street epistemologies I've seen to date. Which is not a bad thing. I feel that Eric focused more on the rational data "overarching", and Andy was more "in the weeds" but that is not a bad thing. Two things can be true at once.
Does anyone know what song the outro music is from?
Rain Drops - TrackTribe
@@sorrystilltrying5062Thank you!
Peter's great but I can't believe he has 187K subscribers while Kellie Jay Keen only has 87K.
👍👍God is greater than Islam.
❤
The problem with Islam is the same problem with Orthodox Judaism, many Hindus and many other groups: religious and sometimes legally enforced endogamy, basically you are forced to marry inside the group. That makes modern liberalism difficult
If cousin marriages are a problem, what does that mean about the English aristocracy?
You are comparing something common across an entire culture to something a very select group of people did in the past?
@@MustardSkaven Nope, it is a very valid c0mparison
@@John-ce2io How so, considering the clear difference I pointed out?
Do a quick Google search for "inbreeding-by-country" to find the world map. You'll see a clear pattern.
@@MustardSkaven Marrying cousins isn't really inbreeding and it was the norm for humans for 99% of our history. Ashkenazi Jews have done it, British Royals and aristocrats have done it, even people like Einstein and Darwin married their first cousins. First cousin births carry the same genetic risk as women giving birth after 32, which is normal in Western societies nowadays. And different things are frowned upon socially in different countries.
@@John-ce2io Did you look at the map?
And why are you trying to move the goalpost? Read what OP said. We are talking about marrying cousins. And, yes, marrying cousins is considered inbreeding. But if you have an issue with the word, we can just call it "marrying cousins".
Go look at the map. Look how prevalent marrying cousins (or even siblings) is. Anything you think those countries have in common?
So it doesn't look like we can compare what some noblemen did to what an entire culture approves of. The effects on the genetics of the country are clear.
I've been living 14 years in the UK from Europe and yeah sure I don't have to adapt to anything, I lived in Germany and Spain and it's the same, culturally adjacent so to speak. Say for instance mundane stuff like proverbs and ways of describing everyday things are the same. Yet assimilation is another thing and yeah I can apply for citizenship and get a booklet with a stamp saying UK , uh uh well done you, but I'd never say I'm british or something my home my roots aren't here so I won't get a passport out of respect tbh to a flag isn't mine.
So yes it's true you're resourceful only to the taxman
The indigenous "inhabitants" have already surrendered. Look at Malaysia and the Bumiputera system.
I find it odd that nobody questioned the underlying assumption behind the notion of "surrender." If, through a democratic process and by a majority vote, the UK were to align more closely with Muslim values, why should that be framed as surrender? And if some resistance were mounted, it would be mounted in the face of democracy.
Bring out the island money! Poor Andy.
Andy is correct about Jews. There are several kinds, and they don't all like each other either, lol. My American Jewish friends tend not to be particularly fond of Israeli Jews and Hasidic Jews.
That's like asking if a narcissist can share the spotlight.
There should be another spot, something like, "unknown", which is like neutral, but in this case, the person has so little information, or simply not considered the topic at all, that they are not in a position to form an opening opinion.
perhaps "neutral/unknown"
Talk is nice but action solves problems. Geno is preferable to Islam.
Can islam work with liberalism?
No.
If your goal is to integrate Muslims into the society and to conform, not allowing them to pray in schools will do the opposite. You will force parents to find alternatives like homeschooling or Muslim private schooling. In that case there will be fewer opportunities for the Muslim children to integrate with those from other backgrounds.
Muslims want special treatment, I’ve read your Quran and Sunnah literature you goal is not assimilation but world domination and subjugation by force. Muhammad and his Caliphs that followed conquered murdered and subjugation their way across the Middle East, Isreal the Arabian peninsula, North Africa up to India in the east and Spain in the west and was eventually stopped by Charles Martel from conquering France also. Jews and Christian’s in their own lands which had been invaded where made Dhimmis the oppositions were pay the Jizya convert die. Every land a Muslim is present and dominates is a land they are occupying
If they wanted to live in a Muslim society, they shouldn‘t have come to Western Europe
They should leave the country and move to an Islamic country. The indigenous population doesn’t want to be colonised.
Good point.
no they can pray at home
It cant because it doesnt want to.
For several hundred years now, muslim scholars have tried in vain to reform their religion, because it is not sustainable, so far almost all of them have been murdered for their effort. Maybe now they have a chance, especially when you think in terms of Human Capital. A country that refuses to not make use of nearly 50% of their human capital will not prosper as fast as countries that do.
One correction: In GB a public school is not a state school. A public school is a private school.
It can’t even work with islam itself….. so no
No, do math, turn it into the trolly problem and then, wait for it... Factor in time. Run birth rates, population and ratios. The math is clear, the solution is obvious.
Can liberal pro immigration supporters answer some practical questions.Who pays for it,who provides housing and where,who helps with integration and assistance and who pays.what kind of numbers and should there be any limits.Are we obligated to provide shelter for anyone who is having difficulties? The context being we had nearly 750,000 last year alone,this equals building a city the size of Leeds every year. Who pays for building new infrastructure,including hospitals,roads,housing,schools,and much,much more. Do supporters even consider such things;or is it more about their luxury beliefs and the importance of their feelings and righteousness? I’ve spoken to many people with these beliefs and when confronted with the practical implications and costs,they literally have no answers whatsoever.Most are educated and homeowners (insulated) who cannot begin to comprehend the impact on normal people,already struggling with housing and services…all that counts for them is their own moral righteousness.It’s exactly the same thing with regard to a Palestinian state from the river to the sea.They seem to want a home for the poor oppressed Gazan’s;but the moment you ask what would happen to the Israeli Jews,they have no answer.Even worse they appear to have never considered the implications at all…these are nonsensical luxury beliefs,completely ignoring reality
HA ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Har har har har har har har har har har!
😹😹
To the question about when the population of a religion reaches a % the inhabitants should surrender.
I would like to point out the history of the English - or specifically the Saxon and Celtic people:
Ruled by Romans who militarily out numbered us, defeated after over 100 years of occupation
Ruled by the french who massively out numbered us and held the whole south, defeated after over 100 years of years of occupation
Converted to Christianity forcibly, Carried on practicing our own 'version' of it that continued our own beliefs - ex communicated by the pope, created a whole new branch of Christianity that was acceptable to us.
In my opinion the more muslims england gets, the more likely we are to see an official 'mosque of england' that espouses a version of islam that IS compatable with the English traditions - and were already seeing it among the young muslims here who want freedom of expression, more equality of the sexes but still want the community and inner peace that their faith brings. If anything I think so many of the hardliners are here in response to that happening to their own people living here.
There are extremists and there are extremist movements. Haredi "ultra-Orthodox" Jews in Israel are extremists by any definition of the term, but they are insular and refuse to engage in politics or the IDF. Yigal Amir was raised Orthodox and he assassinated Yitzhak Rabin over the Oslo Accords. And nobody is unaware of all the intra-Muslim fighting that has gone on and is still going on. I guess my point is when religious fanatics aren't attacking those who follow different religions, they attack each other.
We cant give up Europe to the muslims this scares me
No.
No what?
@@central_scrutinizr No Islam and liberalism are not compatible. Obvious.
I think Destiny would talk with you and do this game he is definitely in the left!
So if you come to England you must leave your identity at home and become English
The English were never asked so yes if you come you should fully assimilate. We DONT want colonising.
"Agree" or "Disagree?" I can't read your tone. You at least should agree to participate respectfully with the core principles of your adoptive home.
Well when you go over a friends house do you respect their rules or just do what you want? Take for instance I move to a country where their native language is not English. I wouldn’t expect them to change for me but I will learn their language and customs. It’s just common decency and respect.
Lmao
How can you have freedom and ban people from praying?
If the claim was that school staff should not, pray with kids i would understand.
But banning people from praying is one of the most non librral claims
They can pray outside the school.
Schools are for education, not indoctrination.
@@majorchutzpah7265 why should you get to determine where people can pray? Freedom of religion is a right
@@jonnutter and how is this related to my comment ?
@majorchutzpah7265 the difficulty with that is that muslims have particular prayer times that may be within school times.
oh look
eric is on another show dominating the conversation and saying nothing again
Get a life, Peter
It's cool Islam is being discussed truthfully here...
Now be real truth warriors & discuss how all scientific knowledge & most logical reasoning indicate the Bible is mythology & the Christian God doesn't exist.
just the Christian God ?
@@GB-nu6ow He's the one noteworthy in the context. I don't think you'll find too many people in the West that claim Zeus is real.
Mass immigration, especially from the Muslim world is a massive topic, not just here in the UK but all over the Western world.
We need a serious conversation about this or we’re heading for trouble.
We already are in trouble and it's deliberate.
I will never surrender to Islam. I’ll fight if I have too.