"Rattling guns would've shot by now" "Rattling guns wouldve killed thorgrim about now" "Rattling guns can- " Jeez I feel like I'm back at home being compared to all my cousins doing things in life
@@christopherg2347 Having a 90% civ targeting rate with drones is a "Corateral Damage" This doom stack is just the USA's drone program trying to replay warthogs. Everyone knows miniguns are awesome because dakakakakaka
I like how auto resolve was like: 30to60% for you Oh you added 5 more menace from below? make it 60to90% Oh you remove the 5 you just added? 50to80% LOGIC
Autoresolve's mysteries are truly beyond mortal comprehension. Literally 3 skaven characters up against a tier 2 lizardman garrison? Autoresolve says the Skaven got this 70%, despite all three characters dying horribly to a single block of Saurus. 3 full armies of VC, one crapstack of zombies, two armies of other stuff, versus Belegar Ironhammer, one of the ghost thanes, 8 Dwarf Warriors. and 3 Quarrelers? Belegar has this 95%, no contest.
It's actually impressive how they come in tightened formations towards legend, for me even when I try and bait them with a Lord they come in the longest line formation known to mankind
I think the biggest point on this army is that it will still attack the enemy even if there are friendlies in the way. You use the Plague Priests to summon disposable units to block the enemy and let the Bombardiers and Globadiers shred them. Not like its "better" than Ratling Guns and Jezzails, but simply a different way to fight. Another point that comes to mind is that you can be more aggressive in moving them around since they dont require perfect terrain to work properly.
@@warlockengineer Also just great to witness seeing them clear out walls in sieges, weapon teams like Ratling and Jezzails are a bloody mess in sieges.
@@onchristieroad i think they are still strong, especially the RoR version. In my Skryre campaigns they are the main tool to win sieges, I don't know how you siege without them as Skaven
@@aristotelsb8874 It's a gigantic pain but you really just rely on magic and tricky firing angles. I don't have the Eshin DLC so i had to make do without them.
That is a lot of indirect fire. This Doomstack looks like it is like it is a lot less annoying to use on maps with a lot of hills that would obstruct the LOS of gun units.
Probably my favorite thing about the Ikit campaign is the fact that the mortar team upgrade for the DoT affects the RoR, which normally sacrifices the DoT in favor of more AoE damage. Upgrading the mortar team DoT in the workshop means the RoR version gets to have its cake and eat it too.
@@patrikkajari527 In case your comment was aimed at me: Normally the Poison Wind Mortar unit applies a damage-over-time effect to units it hits, but the Regiment of Renown version does not - instead, it deals a lot more up-front damage in a larger area of effect. Ikit Claw has a campaign mechanic where he can add special effects to certain units. One of those effects is an improved version of the damage-over-time effect for *all* Poison Wind Mortar units - even the RoR version, in spite of the fact that it supposedly wasn't meant to have such an effect, the end result being that the unit deals a *lot* more damage than regular Poison Wind Mortar teams while still applying the damage-over-time effect. My end point being that the best Ikit Claw doomstack featuring mortars really ought to feature the RoR version over the regular variant.
Death Globes are very good at killing infantry and cavalry models since each projectile basically does "sure kill" damage. They are not bad in melee combat either. They function like Miners with AP blasting charges. Problem is in the context of single player. If you're playing Iket to boost them up to max, you have access to better weapons. I could only see One or Two Death globes being used as body guard at the flanks of your kill box if you want to use terrain in the middle of the map, or for emergency crowd control if your dealing with a enemy that can map wide summon or cast. Poison Globes are very bad, I'd never recruit them. If any enemy are that close you want immediate stopping power.
Death Globes are an underrated skaven unit. I put one or two in all my weapon team armies because they decimate big packs of units. The Death Globe Mortar RoR is probably my favorite unit in the game.
Dude that thing where he selected multiple different units holding ALT means thats how they will make formation, i am blown away i never knew u could do that
@@benisrood from what i got you can move them from right to left and if the card you selected is put away it will go automaticaly to the far right, ready to be moved toward the left. It's not intuitive and practical imo, or i'm missing smth.
I honestly watch these videos just for the quality of life short cuts Legend uses that I never knew about, I've learned so much more this than the dedicated tutorial videos
I haven't finished the video yet but I imagine this might be better for sieges as they can volley the globes up on the walls instead of trying to make holes for gunners to shoot through
This army does have some distinct advantages though, for one it's Magical bonus vs large AOE and ignores missile parry chance, so against a lot of cavalry units in the game (Dragon Princes, Bretonnian Cavalry, Doomfire warlocks etc.) you will very large amounts of use out of them. Secondly they are decent melee combatants(with the forbidden workshop upgrade), so worst case scenario if cavalry gets to close, they can hold the line for a decent amount of time . Finally they do knockdown entities as well which causes them to slowdown advancing units at a greater rate than would be expected.
I think the slowdown can be ignored because poison wind mortars slow with poison anyways, plus ratling guns have suppressed -15% speed debuff too. So it kinda cancels out the importance I think.
Nice video. My interpretation, as far as I can see, is that they are as effective against armies as ratlinguns, but I think their advantage in this battle is that dwarves have non-fast units. Because, for example, if there was a Bretonian cavalry unit, they would have crushed those units instead of Thorgrim. They would be 100% effective against vampire counts, vampire coast, Norsca, and dwarves, as well. But I don't think they can defeat wood elves, dark elves, or high elves or chaos warriors (especially chaos cavalry) with these ranged units. I think they are effective against lizarmen, but their ranged units, especially salamanders, crush these rats, so they are head-to-head. I do not know if they can defeat the tomb kings, because their units are fast, so they have a good chance of attack, such as ushabtis, scorpions.
I like to go with 2 poison wind mortars too because they dish more damage than a ratling gun during a siege and because of their range they are versatile. Another alternative weapon team would be adding one or two warpstone grinder instead of plague priest. Their quake ability slows cavalry in battlefield and they can create unlimited breaches in sieges, allowing gutling guns and jezz to shoot.
Having just watched the 15 part Ikit campaign (go Vecteek!) one thing that stands out to me about this stack is that it folded the Dawi like lawn chairs at the end. I don't recall a lot of weapons team battles ending like that, where everyone just gives up. The regular stack had to gun them all down, sometimes to the very last beard.
I think this kind of army would benefit greatly from warpfire throwers. Also, if you build a dlc free army than you should also switch the mortars to more plagueclaw or warp cannons.
Only advantage I can see is it's not got as many annoying line of sight issues than the regular weapons team doomstack so would work better on maps that the ratling gun teams struggle with.
He does have Ratling Gun and Jezzail armies too so he probably just got bored of winning every single battle the exact same way with every single army.
I don't get this honestly. Half the time Legend is like 'Ah I'm not going to use magic' if It's a doomstack he doesn't seem interested in because "It's testing the doomstack not the wizard." The Wizard is part of the doomstack, just like the doom rocket Is part of this doomstack. Both armies might have access to It, but at that point you should disqualify all the lords and just have some rank 1 general so you can 'fairly test the units'.
Skrye bombadiers/globadiers have an advantage that other weapons teams don't, they can actually survive being rushed with melee due to their attack and they get fear/terror with the workshop upgrades. You can essentially treat them as the real frontline troops of Clan Skrye. On bumpy/hilly maps, they can out perform ratling guns and jezzails since they don't need line of sight.
One point you did not cover in favor of this stack are Chokebattles and large Siegebattles (attacking and defending). Ratlings and jezzails are a pain to use in sieges, often you dont need them bc the artillery+ magic kills everything on its own. I can see sweetspots in large sieges where this stack is slightly better/easier to use. The friendly fire is irrelevant if we talk about vermindite clanrats. But the normal weaponsteam is, no doubt, still the better alrounder. Keep up the good content legend :D
I'm baffled as to why the player chose a flat map with clean corners to showcase their anti-Dwarf stack, claiming that it'd perform better than the usual doomstack on it.
How did you zoom? As a doomstack this is OK, only one casualty means it's not terrible, but yeah... Jezzails and Ratling Guns would have got the job done so much easier.
Globa/bombardiers work the best as a second firing line. I personally put one globadier unit behind one warpfire thrower on my flanks in otherwise normal weapons team stack. Anything trying to flank usually melts in seconds since the burst damage is extremely high on top of armor-piercing, anti-large and fire attack.
I'm not sure you needed the vermintides, both poison and death globadiers can hold up in melee pretty well even before the workshop's improvements (which boost their melee stats even further), Which means that unlike Rattlings and Jezzails, it's not game over if they engage in melee. I'm pretty sure they are even capable of doing frontline duties with what they got and even moreso with their Skryer upgrades.
This is the ideal video, Legend! Skaven, a fun doomstack with a salient explanation on how it's suboptimal and why, and all under 30 minutes. I could watch an episode every day of this content.
Legend after checking damage and realizing that Mortars did the most damage > You don't need mortars in a field battle Problem with these ...diers is range - buffed ratling guns outrage almost every archer in the game, Jazzails outrange even some artillery I tried to use Bombardiers mixed in between ratling Guns but they get 0 kills in 90% of battles because enemy gets shredded by Guns and Jazzails
"They're not great at killing single entities" Melts Thorgrim in seconds. I'd say speed wise that was pretty comparable to how fast a regular weapons team would have done it
If you want range you need to go 7 ratling and 8 mortars with 1 Jezzail for taking out lords and 3 warlock engineers to boost damage, speed, ammo, range & leadership. Put them under any lords with missle team boosts set to max. It will melt ANYTHING that comes into range
over all I agree with your opinion on this doom stack legend. I think its a fun idea but no where near as good as an actual weapon team doom stack. Its strong but the large problem comes back to what you mentioned which is range. The army probably benefits more from having a grey seer of plague as like normal weapon team doom stacks because those weapons ( least from what I can see ) are not actually doing poison damage for the main damager, which is the death globes but out side the long mortars and plague claws, so they would greatly benefit from bless with filth spell. The master engineer is not a bad choice because it can go out in a decently speedy manner to distract the enemies but in the end this really comes down to preferences cause you can always use the plague priests to provide the bless with filth instead but grey seer gives a bit more crowd control where that can be vital for a weapons team army. 7 out of 10 is about around what I'd give it but I might say 7.5 only because the army wasnt fully leveled up from what we saw in the video. They had the most important things there already but having those extra levels would definitely be nice as well. In the end this army is nice against dwarves but otherwise I see this as more a fun stack then a doom stack but the army has potential it just might take some minor tweaks to optimize it. Thats just my thoughts as another skaven player but felt like sharing them cause I do enjoy seeing new ideas being used for skaven.
I love poison wind mortars! They are really quite good in a Ikit Claw campaign. IDK how good they are without the workshop upgrades though. Random lord + Skavenslaves filler + 3 poison wind mortars were enough to defend against any infantry heavy army that attacked me. They also make siege battles pretty entertaining. You can just sit back and relax while the mortars shell the entire city. Being mortars and all they really don't care about walls. Plus the AI is too dumb to come outside. So many battles they would just sit AFK with flying cav on the capture point. The RoR version, the one with purple balls is absolutely bonkers too.
The only reason I could imagine using a variation of this army myself would be a specialized siege army for the scaven. Sieging well defended settlements as scaven can be a real chore at times so having a siege breaker army might be fun. But in a field battle its inferior in every single way to a regular scaven stack, even against dwarves and especially against any sort of high mobility roster.
i feel like dumping the poison globadiers for 2 more death winds and one more mortar would be fine death winds are crazy strong, that first volley into any healthy squad is SO good to see this army would cry at the sight of any monsters though
I agree that this alternate weapon stack is less effective, still fun to see that people make it work. Could summon the vermintide behind the charging units, to minimize friendly fire, but that will take some practise to time it right and might be difficult with multiple units charging in at the same time.
I build an army with Death Globes/Jezzails/Warp Lightning Cannons as an alternate doomstack sometimes, and find that works very well. The Death Globes are absolute blenders to infantry but you really do need support against single entities (or fast stuff not playing Dwarfs). They also hold up pretty well in melee, especially compared to Ratling Guns. I wouldn't say it's quite as good as the standard Weapons Team stack, Ratling Guns are too good, especially with infite ammo, but it certainly works nicely if you want a bit of variety.
I always include poisoned wind mortars in my armies as clan skryre. The only armies I find they aren't as effective against are Lizardmen and monsters.
One thing to keep in mind that all of the globe type weapons teams deal magic damage with their ammo and dwarves have naturally high magic resistance, so I'm honestly surprised how well they did in this matchup!
Did kinda like this before Ikit DLC came out, but I took warpfire thrower instead of the poison globadier and doomwheels instead of the mortars. Then used the poison spell for slowdown.
Seems like the kind of army that would work better with chieftans to hold the line instead of Plague Priests. And then you also have some units that can deal with single entities on their own. Really feels like a waste of winds to summon a unit that gets crushed by friendly fire almost immediately when you could be using those winds to just do more damage or buff the mortars with slow to stagger the whole army more.
I generally find that 2x Poison Winds can easily both make their value in pretty much every kind of battle. The second PWM is more valuable than the fourth Plagueclaw. I wouldn't go over 2 though.
It's funny, as much as I love Legend's enthusiasm for Ratling guns and Jezzails, I never use ratling guns and only use 2 - 3 jessails(for sniping things). The second that there is any variance in terrain, an enemy flanking you as a result of that variance, or a siege batttle, the ratling guns and jezzails are useless. They are fearsomely powerful in desert settings or badlands settings, but they are too conditional. My armies are usually blobs of warpfire throwers or warp grinders(highly under-rated) and mortars; along with hero units.
feel like this could struggle with cavalry (which I can ignore because he said it's targeted at Dwarves) or flyers which is more serious since gyrobombers and copters are a thing. it'd be good in hilly terrain and sieges though.
I personally use something like this from time to time, although i switch the catapults in favor of the lightning cannons-they give a decent degree of ranged anti-large and anti-lord firepower that is mostly enough to deal with 2 armies at once. Plague priests/packmasters are mandatory in this scenario, and it may also include 2 warp grinders-they are an extremely underrated unit that can deal 20-30k damage per battle and can stop the enemy dead in its tracks for a while-enough for the glowbadiers to shoot them to kingdom come. This does require micro, but on maps with uneven terrain it simply MELTS armies it has no right to. Especially useful in coop play, where the grinders and cannons can be controlled by another player to relieve you of the intensive micro. Is it better than ratling guns/jezzails? In certain cituations-yes. In sieges especially . Glowbadiers are vastly superior to jezzails/ratling guns in siege battles.
Death globadiers are foking glass cannon in multiplayer - they literally DELETE enemy infantry in seconds, but they soooo vulnerable and requires a really good opportunities to deal their job(( But if the stars start shooting, globadiers are ultra OP))
I would ditch catapults and poison winds. And instead go for 4 warp ligting canons and 2 more poison mortars. Those mortars are on par with catapults in field battle, but are superior in sieges. And warp lighting will fix the single entity issues and they can deal with infantry too.
Benefits of this one is its not so much map dependent, given they loop. Also ALWAY checkboard a bit, what this does is gives the models time to die due to range so your ranged units do not all shoot at the same model
One point about this doomstack that I feel might be an advantage over the ratling/jazz doomstack is it doesn’t require as much direct line of sight. So you’d be less likely to get fucked over by shitty terrain. But all in all, I agree that the ”normal” one is better. Just nice to see some variation.
pretty cool army to test. definitely not as good as the traditional jezzails/ratling army, but not bad at all. Also, if you don't have the ikit claw DLC, and you're playing as skaven, you are doing it wrong. You NEED to get that DLC. Probably the most essential DLC in the entire game aside from those that add entire extra factions. Also did wonders for the lizards.
I believe that in lore there is a skaven faction that focusus on death/poisoned wind globadiers so if that faction becomes a playable faction this army would be very nice on them
Death Globe Bombardiers are pretty good. Poison-Wind Globadiers suck. Death Globe has really good AP damage and their attacks count as explosive so they tear most things apart. They are pretty good against slow cav and big, slow monsters. They're very strong versus infantry. Mixing one or two into an army is pretty strong. The short range is the drawback. There was a lot of situations in the video that got overlooked where one unit of Death Globes deleted an entire enemy unit in a single volley. One benefit they have over Ratlings is they fire in an arc so line-of-sight isn't an issue, whereas Ratlings can struggle with it on certain maps. I think Death Globes have a solid place within a weapons team army comp.
Problem with that, I find, is they also burst down the rattling guns. I've tried it, probably with the same thinking you had, but the army had to stop to recruit way too often.
@@MartynWilkinson45 that shouldn't be happening unless the enemy is already in melee with the Ratlings since the Ratling fire slows them enough that the Death Globes shouldn't have any trouble killing them
@@houndofculann1793 you'd be surprised. The globadiers don't so much "aim" as "lob in the enemies general direction." It takes a tiny error in positioning, and even a handful of misplaced globes can devastate a unit, especially the DOT grenades. I'd rather spend my attention microing my wizards or flayers or whatever. In this scenario, you must have the dlc, so you'd be better served by more rattling guns, or jezzails, or catapults.
should consider that this army in some maps in which the terrain is very irregular is a better option, since those maps have no good position for Ikit weapon teams
"Rattling guns would've shot by now" "Rattling guns wouldve killed thorgrim about now" "Rattling guns can- " Jeez I feel like I'm back at home being compared to all my cousins doing things in life
lol
Are you ok buddy? 😢
your cousin would have brought ratling guns
"I'm gonna flock of doom them" "I wish we have spirit leech here"
Is your mom disappointed you decided to become a storm vermin when all your cousin chose the good paying weapons team jobs 😆.
Wouldn't you have to give them an extra point for more friendly fire yes-yes?
More dead skavenslaves means more meat for the rest!
No no no....this man has a point.
Theres n-nothing good-friendly about skaven fire, man-thing
Lmao
“They’ll do way more friendly fire than Ratling Guns and Jezzailes”
Is that a problem? I thought that was one of army’s features
Especially when it will most likely be the menace belows they kill
can be a problem if it makes your summoned troops flee in 4 seconds instead of 15-25
In at least one version of the army book, it was called "Corateral Damage"
@@christopherg2347 Having a 90% civ targeting rate with drones is a "Corateral Damage" This doom stack is just the USA's drone program trying to replay warthogs. Everyone knows miniguns are awesome because dakakakakaka
@@boomknight1015 I do not see when the US drone programm caused CoRATeral damage. Pretty sure it was coLATeral damage.
I like how auto resolve was like:
30to60% for you
Oh you added 5 more menace from below? make it 60to90%
Oh you remove the 5 you just added? 50to80%
LOGIC
I think not even CA themselves know how the autoresolve makes its decisions lol.
That autoresolve is me evaluating a delay XD
Autoresolve's mysteries are truly beyond mortal comprehension.
Literally 3 skaven characters up against a tier 2 lizardman garrison? Autoresolve says the Skaven got this 70%, despite all three characters dying horribly to a single block of Saurus.
3 full armies of VC, one crapstack of zombies, two armies of other stuff, versus Belegar Ironhammer, one of the ghost thanes, 8 Dwarf Warriors. and 3 Quarrelers? Belegar has this 95%, no contest.
@@aprinnyonbreak1290 ah I thought I had forgotten the pain, but you sir, brought it back.
Autoresolve: The 5th God of Chaos.
It's actually impressive how they come in tightened formations towards legend, for me even when I try and bait them with a Lord they come in the longest line formation known to mankind
I feel you 😭
You have to confuse them with your lord, heroes and menace belows so that they just wander around in circles.
Its reallt a fine art
I think the biggest point on this army is that it will still attack the enemy even if there are friendlies in the way. You use the Plague Priests to summon disposable units to block the enemy and let the Bombardiers and Globadiers shred them. Not like its "better" than Ratling Guns and Jezzails, but simply a different way to fight. Another point that comes to mind is that you can be more aggressive in moving them around since they dont require perfect terrain to work properly.
The self control needed to not nuke that giant blob as they were walking up..
He could've taken out the whole 2nd army with the nuke too, They were marching in tightly packed columns
I'm just gonna come right out and say it: Mortars are my favourite weapon teams.
They really are highly underrated
@@warlockengineer Also just great to witness seeing them clear out walls in sieges, weapon teams like Ratling and Jezzails are a bloody mess in sieges.
The RoR mortar is so OP is hilarious
Hellstorm rocket batteries are my favorite.
@@ausgerandybob5036 The RoR mortar has got to be the most powerful unit in the game. It's like an orbital kinetic strike weapon.
The damage mortars do to infantry is just insane.
I've not used them since the nerf. Does it make a difference?
@@onchristieroad i think they are still strong, especially the RoR version. In my Skryre campaigns they are the main tool to win sieges, I don't know how you siege without them as Skaven
@@aristotelsb8874 plague priests
@@aristotelsb8874 Move a plague seer or priest(s) snug against the wall & plague your way to victory.
@@aristotelsb8874 It's a gigantic pain but you really just rely on magic and tricky firing angles. I don't have the Eshin DLC so i had to make do without them.
That is a lot of indirect fire. This Doomstack looks like it is like it is a lot less annoying to use on maps with a lot of hills that would obstruct the LOS of gun units.
Yeah that would really be the only advantage
My thought exactly. Any time I try an unbalanced gun army I seem to rarely get a map position it works well on
Probably my favorite thing about the Ikit campaign is the fact that the mortar team upgrade for the DoT affects the RoR, which normally sacrifices the DoT in favor of more AoE damage. Upgrading the mortar team DoT in the workshop means the RoR version gets to have its cake and eat it too.
Why would you ever get cake you can't eat?
@@OtterSpace975 most underrated comment 2021
@@OtterSpace975 What if you are gifted a gross fruit cake for the holidays? It's possible... a tragedy, but it can happen.
I didn't understand half of that
@@patrikkajari527 In case your comment was aimed at me:
Normally the Poison Wind Mortar unit applies a damage-over-time effect to units it hits, but the Regiment of Renown version does not - instead, it deals a lot more up-front damage in a larger area of effect.
Ikit Claw has a campaign mechanic where he can add special effects to certain units. One of those effects is an improved version of the damage-over-time effect for *all* Poison Wind Mortar units - even the RoR version, in spite of the fact that it supposedly wasn't meant to have such an effect, the end result being that the unit deals a *lot* more damage than regular Poison Wind Mortar teams while still applying the damage-over-time effect.
My end point being that the best Ikit Claw doomstack featuring mortars really ought to feature the RoR version over the regular variant.
11:33 that unit in the left corner just getting shredded in less than a second.
Death Globes are very good at killing infantry and cavalry models since each projectile basically does "sure kill" damage. They are not bad in melee combat either. They function like Miners with AP blasting charges.
Problem is in the context of single player. If you're playing Iket to boost them up to max, you have access to better weapons.
I could only see One or Two Death globes being used as body guard at the flanks of your kill box if you want to use terrain in the middle of the map, or for emergency crowd control if your dealing with a enemy that can map wide summon or cast.
Poison Globes are very bad, I'd never recruit them. If any enemy are that close you want immediate stopping power.
Death Globes are an underrated skaven unit. I put one or two in all my weapon team armies because they decimate big packs of units. The Death Globe Mortar RoR is probably my favorite unit in the game.
Yup the value you get out of even just 1 is so high I always find a spot over another ratling gun or jezzail.
The way the balance of power jumped with the extra menace belows threw me for a loop honestly
It's because the auto-resolve really dislikes ranged armies with no melee infantry in them.
Dude that thing where he selected multiple different units holding ALT means thats how they will make formation, i am blown away i never knew u could do that
I know I was blown away too first time, also if you press ctrl-alt and move your mouse you can rotate the formation.
If u rearrange ur cards from like:AAAABBBB into for example:ABABABAB and select em all out and deploy, it will deploy into that ABABABAB pattern
@@benisrood just drag and drop basically
@@benisrood from what i got you can move them from right to left and if the card you selected is put away it will go automaticaly to the far right, ready to be moved toward the left. It's not intuitive and practical imo, or i'm missing smth.
I honestly watch these videos just for the quality of life short cuts Legend uses that I never knew about, I've learned so much more this than the dedicated tutorial videos
i mean this army would be GREAT in sieges, the throwing arc vs walls was always worth it to me to keep 1 or 2 deathglobes in my armies.
It may have less range but it is better on awkward maps with line of sight issues (maps with hills)
I haven't finished the video yet but I imagine this might be better for sieges as they can volley the globes up on the walls instead of trying to make holes for gunners to shoot through
Kill-slay beard-things yes yes!
This army does have some distinct advantages though, for one it's Magical bonus vs large AOE and ignores missile parry chance, so against a lot of cavalry units in the game (Dragon Princes, Bretonnian Cavalry, Doomfire warlocks etc.) you will very large amounts of use out of them. Secondly they are decent melee combatants(with the forbidden workshop upgrade), so worst case scenario if cavalry gets to close, they can hold the line for a decent amount of time . Finally they do knockdown entities as well which causes them to slowdown advancing units at a greater rate than would be expected.
I think the slowdown can be ignored because poison wind mortars slow with poison anyways, plus ratling guns have suppressed -15% speed debuff too. So it kinda cancels out the importance I think.
13:17 poison wind mortars, the key damage-dealing element of this army are DLC unit
You can use 2 more PCCs and it's still good
I once got lucky and confederated one, so that's a thing that can happen.
Different dlc though isn’t it?
I will admit this would work on hill maps where rattling guns would have problems
Love RG damage - hate nessesary straght plain ground to fire.
Adding some warp lightning cannons to the army might help against single entities.
GAS GAS GAS, GOTTA STEP-TREAD ON THE GAS, TONIGHT ITS RIGHT, TO BE THE WIN-WINNER! YES YES!
Nice video. My interpretation, as far as I can see, is that they are as effective against armies as ratlinguns, but I think their advantage in this battle is that dwarves have non-fast units. Because, for example, if there was a Bretonian cavalry unit, they would have crushed those units instead of Thorgrim. They would be 100% effective against vampire counts, vampire coast, Norsca, and dwarves, as well. But I don't think they can defeat wood elves, dark elves, or high elves or chaos warriors (especially chaos cavalry) with these ranged units. I think they are effective against lizarmen, but their ranged units, especially salamanders, crush these rats, so they are head-to-head. I do not know if they can defeat the tomb kings, because their units are fast, so they have a good chance of attack, such as ushabtis, scorpions.
It's weird how warp gas throwers are wearing gas masks but still poison eachother
0:34 auto resolve: 1 menace below 50%, 2 menace below OK YOU WILL WIN FOR SURE!
Legend: the problem is they will do way more friendly fire...
Skaven: and how is that a problem?
I like to go with 2 poison wind mortars too because they dish more damage than a ratling gun during a siege and because of their range they are versatile.
Another alternative weapon team would be adding one or two warpstone grinder instead of plague priest. Their quake ability slows cavalry in battlefield and they can create unlimited breaches in sieges, allowing gutling guns and jezz to shoot.
I think mortars are underrated I have higher numbers in my stacks, sometimes as many as 4.
Having just watched the 15 part Ikit campaign (go Vecteek!) one thing that stands out to me about this stack is that it folded the Dawi like lawn chairs at the end. I don't recall a lot of weapons team battles ending like that, where everyone just gives up. The regular stack had to gun them all down, sometimes to the very last beard.
All that damage on the globadiers was mostly friendly fire dude!
are we playing skaven or aren't we playing skaven here?
I think this kind of army would benefit greatly from warpfire throwers.
Also, if you build a dlc free army than you should also switch the mortars to more plagueclaw or warp cannons.
Only advantage I can see is it's not got as many annoying line of sight issues than the regular weapons team doomstack so would work better on maps that the ratling gun teams struggle with.
Me: Mom can we have a skaven doomstack?
Mom: We have a skaven doomstack.
Skaven doomstack at home:
He does have Ratling Gun and Jezzail armies too so he probably just got bored of winning every single battle the exact same way with every single army.
That blob in the back at 10:10 would have been perfect for a doom rocket, too bad he said he wasn't going to use it.
I don't get this honestly. Half the time Legend is like 'Ah I'm not going to use magic' if It's a doomstack he doesn't seem interested in because "It's testing the doomstack not the wizard."
The Wizard is part of the doomstack, just like the doom rocket Is part of this doomstack. Both armies might have access to It, but at that point you should disqualify all the lords and just have some rank 1 general so you can 'fairly test the units'.
Skrye bombadiers/globadiers have an advantage that other weapons teams don't, they can actually survive being rushed with melee due to their attack and they get fear/terror with the workshop upgrades. You can essentially treat them as the real frontline troops of Clan Skrye. On bumpy/hilly maps, they can out perform ratling guns and jezzails since they don't need line of sight.
hey legend. i just won a vh/vh norsca campaign (wulfric), that shit was painful af. mammoth doomstacks are crazy
Plagueclaw catapults: kill dwarf thing-things in unison yes-yes?
One point you did not cover in favor of this stack are Chokebattles and large Siegebattles (attacking and defending). Ratlings and jezzails are a pain to use in sieges, often you dont need them bc the artillery+ magic kills everything on its own. I can see sweetspots in large sieges where this stack is slightly better/easier to use. The friendly fire is irrelevant if we talk about vermindite clanrats.
But the normal weaponsteam is, no doubt, still the better alrounder.
Keep up the good content legend :D
I agree. I hate sieging with weapon teams, its such a slog, just baiting the AI and casting for 10-20 minutes...
good point this many globes in a chokepoint is a big oof for whoever ure killin
I'm baffled as to why the player chose a flat map with clean corners to showcase their anti-Dwarf stack, claiming that it'd perform better than the usual doomstack on it.
How did you zoom?
As a doomstack this is OK, only one casualty means it's not terrible, but yeah... Jezzails and Ratling Guns would have got the job done so much easier.
a bit late now but it should be the n button i beilve
+can we get a weapons team doomstack?
-we have weapons team doomstack at home
the weapons team at home:
This army would have been *shredded* by a primarily ranged army, like wood/high elves.
Globa/bombardiers work the best as a second firing line. I personally put one globadier unit behind one warpfire thrower on my flanks in otherwise normal weapons team stack. Anything trying to flank usually melts in seconds since the burst damage is extremely high on top of armor-piercing, anti-large and fire attack.
I'm not sure you needed the vermintides, both poison and death globadiers can hold up in melee pretty well even before the workshop's improvements (which boost their melee stats even further), Which means that unlike Rattlings and Jezzails, it's not game over if they engage in melee. I'm pretty sure they are even capable of doing frontline duties with what they got and even moreso with their Skryer upgrades.
This is the ideal video, Legend! Skaven, a fun doomstack with a salient explanation on how it's suboptimal and why, and all under 30 minutes. I could watch an episode every day of this content.
The love u give to the skaven, u are surely a mutated rat. Yes-yes. Horned-legend rat.
Love them skaven battle /stacks. Keep the good work. Yes-yes.
Высшая раса, как-никак
Legend after checking damage and realizing that Mortars did the most damage
> You don't need mortars in a field battle
Problem with these ...diers is range - buffed ratling guns outrage almost every archer in the game, Jazzails outrange even some artillery
I tried to use Bombardiers mixed in between ratling Guns but they get 0 kills in 90% of battles because enemy gets shredded by Guns and Jazzails
Friendly fire in a skaven army is not a bug but a feature
The artillery and big balls can be used for range units, while small balls can be used for infrantry.
"They're not great at killing single entities" Melts Thorgrim in seconds. I'd say speed wise that was pretty comparable to how fast a regular weapons team would have done it
If you want range you need to go 7 ratling and 8 mortars with 1 Jezzail for taking out lords and 3 warlock engineers to boost damage, speed, ammo, range & leadership. Put them under any lords with missle team boosts set to max. It will melt ANYTHING that comes into range
over all I agree with your opinion on this doom stack legend. I think its a fun idea but no where near as good as an actual weapon team doom stack. Its strong but the large problem comes back to what you mentioned which is range.
The army probably benefits more from having a grey seer of plague as like normal weapon team doom stacks because those weapons ( least from what I can see ) are not actually doing poison damage for the main damager, which is the death globes but out side the long mortars and plague claws, so they would greatly benefit from bless with filth spell.
The master engineer is not a bad choice because it can go out in a decently speedy manner to distract the enemies but in the end this really comes down to preferences cause you can always use the plague priests to provide the bless with filth instead but grey seer gives a bit more crowd control where that can be vital for a weapons team army.
7 out of 10 is about around what I'd give it but I might say 7.5 only because the army wasnt fully leveled up from what we saw in the video. They had the most important things there already but having those extra levels would definitely be nice as well.
In the end this army is nice against dwarves but otherwise I see this as more a fun stack then a doom stack but the army has potential it just might take some minor tweaks to optimize it. Thats just my thoughts as another skaven player but felt like sharing them cause I do enjoy seeing new ideas being used for skaven.
I love poison wind mortars! They are really quite good in a Ikit Claw campaign. IDK how good they are without the workshop upgrades though.
Random lord + Skavenslaves filler + 3 poison wind mortars were enough to defend against any infantry heavy army that attacked me.
They also make siege battles pretty entertaining. You can just sit back and relax while the mortars shell the entire city. Being mortars and all they really don't care about walls. Plus the AI is too dumb to come outside. So many battles they would just sit AFK with flying cav on the capture point. The RoR version, the one with purple balls is absolutely bonkers too.
Look at the balance of power going into the fight with the increase in summons.
the one big advantage i see with this compared to ratlinguns is that the dont need perfectly flat terrain to properly shoot
Why noy remove the poisoned wind bombardiers and get three jezzails, that would be good for lords
The only reason I could imagine using a variation of this army myself would be a specialized siege army for the scaven.
Sieging well defended settlements as scaven can be a real chore at times so having a siege breaker army might be fun. But in a field battle its inferior in every single way to a regular scaven stack, even against dwarves and especially against any sort of high mobility roster.
i feel like dumping the poison globadiers for 2 more death winds and one more mortar would be fine
death winds are crazy strong, that first volley into any healthy squad is SO good to see
this army would cry at the sight of any monsters though
The avalanche mortars would have made this army way better! He also has fire balls to help deal with dwarf lords
I would put some crown of commands so the friendly fire doesn't count
Certainly an alternative. I do prefer ratlings and jezzals though
I agree that this alternate weapon stack is less effective, still fun to see that people make it work. Could summon the vermintide behind the charging units, to minimize friendly fire, but that will take some practise to time it right and might be difficult with multiple units charging in at the same time.
I build an army with Death Globes/Jezzails/Warp Lightning Cannons as an alternate doomstack sometimes, and find that works very well.
The Death Globes are absolute blenders to infantry but you really do need support against single entities (or fast stuff not playing Dwarfs). They also hold up pretty well in melee, especially compared to Ratling Guns.
I wouldn't say it's quite as good as the standard Weapons Team stack, Ratling Guns are too good, especially with infite ammo, but it certainly works nicely if you want a bit of variety.
Everybody says "ratling guns can do that" or "ratling guns can handle this".
But no one asks how ratling guns are :(
I always include poisoned wind mortars in my armies as clan skryre. The only armies I find they aren't as effective against are Lizardmen and monsters.
One thing to keep in mind that all of the globe type weapons teams deal magic damage with their ammo and dwarves have naturally high magic resistance, so I'm honestly surprised how well they did in this matchup!
These globadiers with 90 range must have hell of an arm muscle to throw things that far LOL
Did kinda like this before Ikit DLC came out, but I took warpfire thrower instead of the poison globadier and doomwheels instead of the mortars. Then used the poison spell for slowdown.
Seems like the kind of army that would work better with chieftans to hold the line instead of Plague Priests. And then you also have some units that can deal with single entities on their own. Really feels like a waste of winds to summon a unit that gets crushed by friendly fire almost immediately when you could be using those winds to just do more damage or buff the mortars with slow to stagger the whole army more.
I generally find that 2x Poison Winds can easily both make their value in pretty much every kind of battle. The second PWM is more valuable than the fourth Plagueclaw. I wouldn't go over 2 though.
It's funny, as much as I love Legend's enthusiasm for Ratling guns and Jezzails, I never use ratling guns and only use 2 - 3 jessails(for sniping things). The second that there is any variance in terrain, an enemy flanking you as a result of that variance, or a siege batttle, the ratling guns and jezzails are useless. They are fearsomely powerful in desert settings or badlands settings, but they are too conditional. My armies are usually blobs of warpfire throwers or warp grinders(highly under-rated) and mortars; along with hero units.
feel like this could struggle with cavalry (which I can ignore because he said it's targeted at Dwarves) or flyers which is more serious since gyrobombers and copters are a thing. it'd be good in hilly terrain and sieges though.
Putting stalk on with throt (or if skryre could) would help give them an edge over ranged units.
I personally use something like this from time to time, although i switch the catapults in favor of the lightning cannons-they give a decent degree of ranged anti-large and anti-lord firepower that is mostly enough to deal with 2 armies at once. Plague priests/packmasters are mandatory in this scenario, and it may also include 2 warp grinders-they are an extremely underrated unit that can deal 20-30k damage per battle and can stop the enemy dead in its tracks for a while-enough for the glowbadiers to shoot them to kingdom come. This does require micro, but on maps with uneven terrain it simply MELTS armies it has no right to. Especially useful in coop play, where the grinders and cannons can be controlled by another player to relieve you of the intensive micro. Is it better than ratling guns/jezzails? In certain cituations-yes. In sieges especially . Glowbadiers are vastly superior to jezzails/ratling guns in siege battles.
seems to me like the biggest advantage for this doomstack is it isnt reliant on terrain like rattling/jezail stack is
Plaguewind Mortar Teams are my favorite thing for sieges.
Death globadiers are foking glass cannon in multiplayer - they literally DELETE enemy infantry in seconds, but they soooo vulnerable and requires a really good opportunities to deal their job((
But if the stars start shooting, globadiers are ultra OP))
I would ditch catapults and poison winds.
And instead go for 4 warp ligting canons and 2 more poison mortars.
Those mortars are on par with catapults in field battle, but are superior in sieges.
And warp lighting will fix the single entity issues and they can deal with infantry too.
Benefits of this one is its not so much map dependent, given they loop.
Also ALWAY checkboard a bit, what this does is gives the models time to die due to range so your ranged units do not all shoot at the same model
That autoresolve pissed me off more than it maybe should.
They get obstructed less often. That's the only advantage. I occasionally use them when the region I am in has a lot of maps that are bad for gun LOS.
I can see this army being better at sieges than the ratlings and jazzels
How is this army supposed to handle single entities, monsters? What is fulfilling the function of the jezzails?
i feel like this is good for if you dont have the DLC, that might be why they did this, cause Rattling guns are a DLC unit
One point about this doomstack that I feel might be an advantage over the ratling/jazz doomstack is it doesn’t require as much direct line of sight. So you’d be less likely to get fucked over by shitty terrain. But all in all, I agree that the ”normal” one is better. Just nice to see some variation.
When you play as clan moulder you can provide stalk and extra speed to your units bc of mutations, in that case they can be way more deadly.
id throw the regiment of renown mortan into the mix, would be a sweet destruction.
They seem to hold better if the enemy somehow gets into the melee range. They have good armor and melee attack and defense.
Why only melee? High armor working with missiles too, no?
pretty cool army to test. definitely not as good as the traditional jezzails/ratling army, but not bad at all. Also, if you don't have the ikit claw DLC, and you're playing as skaven, you are doing it wrong. You NEED to get that DLC. Probably the most essential DLC in the entire game aside from those that add entire extra factions. Also did wonders for the lizards.
I believe that in lore there is a skaven faction that focusus on death/poisoned wind globadiers so if that faction becomes a playable faction this army would be very nice on them
It is Clan Vrrtkin, there is a mod with the mixu race unlocker that let`s you play it
Death Globe Bombardiers are pretty good. Poison-Wind Globadiers suck. Death Globe has really good AP damage and their attacks count as explosive so they tear most things apart. They are pretty good against slow cav and big, slow monsters. They're very strong versus infantry. Mixing one or two into an army is pretty strong. The short range is the drawback. There was a lot of situations in the video that got overlooked where one unit of Death Globes deleted an entire enemy unit in a single volley. One benefit they have over Ratlings is they fire in an arc so line-of-sight isn't an issue, whereas Ratlings can struggle with it on certain maps. I think Death Globes have a solid place within a weapons team army comp.
This seems like the kind of army that gets hard countered by one of okoii hero doomstacks.
I like to put 2 death globes behind the rattlings so that they can burst down any unit coming close to them.
Problem with that, I find, is they also burst down the rattling guns. I've tried it, probably with the same thinking you had, but the army had to stop to recruit way too often.
@@MartynWilkinson45 that shouldn't be happening unless the enemy is already in melee with the Ratlings since the Ratling fire slows them enough that the Death Globes shouldn't have any trouble killing them
@@houndofculann1793 you'd be surprised. The globadiers don't so much "aim" as "lob in the enemies general direction." It takes a tiny error in positioning, and even a handful of misplaced globes can devastate a unit, especially the DOT grenades. I'd rather spend my attention microing my wizards or flayers or whatever. In this scenario, you must have the dlc, so you'd be better served by more rattling guns, or jezzails, or catapults.
There is also a lab upgrade he got that gives a huge melee boost to the globadiers/bombardiers. I bet it does better in sieges tho.
An army with flying units would crush this doomstack.
this seems more like an army built specifically ot optimize for friendly fire.
Isn`t this Army way less dependand on the terrain though? Since they can shoot in arcs?
should consider that this army in some maps in which the terrain is very irregular is a better option, since those maps have no good position for Ikit weapon teams