It's fascinating to look back on this, because today I'd quite like to either have a 986 Boxster or an S2000, but I'm heavily leaning towards the Porsche because it's CHEAPER. God bless the man who came up with those ugly headlights - he gave us all a $10,000 discount on our Porsches.
TELL ME ABOUT IT! I actually like how different the car looks with it’s headlights. Nothing wrong with a black swan/ugly duckling. Porsche is hands down the best and DONT mess about, get the 3.2L and just ROCKNROLLA
@@m.a.4949 I think the word has gotten out that the 986 is an excellent car. If Miata is always the answer, the 986 is always there in the same conversation these days. People are starting to realize that the IMA thing isn't that big of a deal too. I've been seeing some really surprising 986 prices lately, as well as some suspiciously cheap 987s. Not long ago a 987 was triple the price; now it's maybe 50% more.
@@lukazupie7220 To state that Clarkson is right on that one, means that he has first hand knowledge on the three. Dont know what you talking about, owning all cars Jeremy tested. If he thinks that someone is correct instead of an other, you should have the knowledge. Really need an explanation?
This is a huge overlooked point, and you're absolutely right. It never *felt* scripted, even though I'm sure it was. The newer series feels scripted and artificial. With Jeremy, James and Richard it was just like your mates having a go at each other, which is why it was such fun to watch.
You prolly dont give a damn but does any of you know a way to log back into an instagram account..? I was stupid forgot my login password. I love any tips you can offer me
@@FEGTTTSDH their lap times should be very close, you be surprised what that S2000 is capable of, it's not just a modded street car, thats a full on race car
One of my favourite bits of this as a Z4 owner is that May said as an American style car it’s more cup holder than cornering, but most Z4s didn’t have cup holders and it seems to be all the owners group can talk about 😂
Unbiased view here, most of these were on wards top 10 list for years. BMW M54B30 had 228hp vs the honda 237hp (europe) so a total of 9hp difference. Doesn't really matter but BMW is under stresed and honda has to rev its nuts off. F20c honda had 155ft-lb vs the BMW 221ft-lb... which the BMW needs for its extra 90KG of weight. I6 will be smoother and side by side shouldn't be too different all else being equal. Reason why bmw was detuned though.... S54B32 from Z4 M roadster had 338hp and 269 lb⋅ft of torque. If you wanted a sportscar you bought the Z4 M and if you wanted the looks without the punch you got the Z4 normal. In typical japanese fashion when honda made the S2000 they aimed to make the best car they could to fit the design....so they only made 1 version (mostly), They didn't sell a watered down version with a B18 or whatever. Fact is depending on your budget and philosophy its nice to know there's no real bad option.
Fascinating comparison this was at the time. With the benefit of hindsight many see the mid-engine intuitive drive of the Boxter stands out, the Z4 was considered too heavy and unrefined, the S2000 despite the excellent engine and agility absent of steering feel and with harsh limits. All three retain their fans today
Can you imagine the 3 of them living in the same house? It'd be the ONLY reality show I'd watch! I meane even watching James and Richard poach eggs was entertaining as hell and got millions of views.
@@noahduffin5492 Go watch the deleted scene where they talk about the himalaya camping where they begin to tell what was to actually share camp with each other those nights.. James impression of Jezza sleeping was the best thing i ever saw from him.
I absolutely adore Porsche, I've owned a 914, but on this occasion Jeremy is right. The BMW isn't quite as reliable as you might imagine and the Porsche has depreciated drastically partly because of its absolutely hideous headlights. The tuning community loves the S200 because of its simplicity and ease of maintenance. Plus it hasn't depreciated as much. Thanks.
@@mistrekuWell i would hope they could achieve more torque from a 3 liter 6 cylinder than a 2 liter 4 cylinder, but even with 2 cylinders more they still couldn't reach the same level of engine performance as the Honda. Fact is, the F20c is just in another league of engineering and is a way better engine.
Love this segment, glad you uploaded it. S2000 still won. To be .4 slower around a specific track than a more expensive boxster and BM. Plus the reliability, the looks, and the fact you can add another 25-40 horses relatively cheaply, without sacrificing reliability, makes the S2000 the best. Not only that S2000's dont go below 15k now, most in the 20s. You can find a boxster for about 5 now, easy.
@Andy Raposo Rubio those w12/v12 landyachts drive like canal boats and can only dream of being a tenth of the fun that these lightweight sports cars bring
OK, to all the people claiming the S2000 is more reliable than a 3l + engine with the same power output: get your head out of your arse and start reading some basic mechanics. I'm soooo tired of this teenager argument.
Too many gears because 6th is probably just for better highway mpg and probably not needed, too few cylinders because for a NA engine sports car it doesnt make that much torque, and too many revs because to be in the powerband to pass people you probably have to be in the 4k+ range making the lower rev range sort of useless, my take on it
@@Garf2O I think Honda opted for a 6-speed to better space the gearing, because as you said, the S2000's engine doesn't produce much torque. So, you have to rev the nuts out of it before it does anything useful. Having many gears means after you shift from the redline, your RPMs fall in the sweet spot along the rev range where the engine produce the most horsepower/torque. 6-speed boxes might be much more expensive to produce than 5-speeds, but still, James saying it's too many, doesn't make sense.
@@jeremybcenteno i own a 5 speed car and the 6 speed makes sense for 2 reasons, 1 you can have a (i think) shorter gear ratio for the rear diff like a 4.10 or something for acceleration and still have enough gears so it can still reach a decent top speed and have a good enough cruising rpm on the freeway, and 2 if you turbo or supercharge it the car will still have enough legs for higher speed runs so you dont run out of gears as fast, although usually you can reach like 150ish in 5th gear on most cars anyway.
@@Garf2O Final gear ratio isn't an issue, you can have the same final gear ratio of a 6-speed on a 5, or even a 4 speed. The difference is how quick it gets there.
I had a 2005 S2000, supposedly the "softer" one. I had it for three years and only put about 18k miles on it. It was uncomfortable due to the hard ride, hard to get in and out, and noisy. However, It was a looker in silver and fun on dry roads, and I sold it for more than I paid.
As a testament to this, I bought one of my own just this past year. I love the thing. I got a 2003 version that looks just about identical to the one in this video and it still gets heads turning 19 years later
Agreed, I have a 2007 3.0si daily driver. It is an absolute blast and still looks and drives amazing. Get compliments all the time. The sound is heaven, there's always torque and they're not expensive to own.
Mmm. That's why I bought one. All the others you see are either black or silver. All three great cars, though, any of which would be a pleasure to own.
@@quietenglishman4179 I don't blame you, it's a great car, the Z3 looks great in blue also. Out of the three shown on the show I think I'd have the S2000 although I think it's about double the price of the other two now.
@@Scampi95 I had a Maldives blue Z3, until a sweet old lady reversed into it, writing it off. I looked for a replacement but they were all tatty then a friend offered me a go in his Z4. End of story, really: the car is so much better than the Z3. S2000s are both rare and very expensive round here.
Whats crazy is when I bought the bmw z4 in 2012 so about 8 years old...the Honda s2000 was out of my price range. So even though he says it was 5 and 6k less than the other two. It held its value better as I bought the z4 because I couldn't afford the s2000
Man i always liked the design of the Z4, but the S2000 has aged with such grace it's still is a looker if you see one! You could build that car with minor modernisations today and noone would notice. The Boxster on the other hand, oh my...
Yeah the S2k engine doesn't sound great but with a standard exhaust and knN inductuction believe me they sound amazing on V-tech but stealth n quite in low revs
The S2000 is undoubtedly the best roadster ever made. It encompasses Honda's legendary motorsports heritage, mainly its total domination of Formula 1 for years and combining it with precision engineering, bulletproof reliability, beauty and FUN. And I bet you anything, it would have won the lap times by atleast 2 seconds on a dry track.
I'd first like to say I wish I could have them all at once for a few years to properly know how they drive before I choose one. I've had two Miata's, then a 2001 2.2l S2000, and now a 2001 3.0l Z3. I was hoping then to get a Boxter S to compare. But now I see if I preferred an earlier one listed I might not be able to re-purchase it . A year after I sold my S2000 it doubled in value. the Miata's were fun and inexpensive, but gutless. The S2000 was superior in handling and the 6th gear was practical on the freeway and allowed to cruise at 90 all day. However my inital reasons for changing were because I couldnt put my left knee up between the door and steering wheel, I couldnt rest my left arm on the edge of the door as it is too tall, and I got tired of constantly shifting and revmatching to keep in the power band. I do mostly twisty mountain roads. but sometimes it takes time to get there. Thats when I changed to the Z3 (3liter only or better). I love the torque as I can stay in a range of gears and it will still pull. ( a little more cabin room allows lazy arm on door, and left knee bent when on long straight cruises). However, I can seriously feel the extra weight in corners, and any speed over 75 feels like it might fishtail off the road. At this point I wish I'd kept the S2000, but I like the idea of the Porsche balance and weight distribution. but unreliability scares me.
Watching this, it's amazing how much better the S2000 has aged than it's competitors. The tone of the piece casts the S2000 as an underdog, but hindsight has left it a modern classic while the BMW is barely an afterthought.
Just that it’s not, the Honda would beat it in the dry in capable hands. it just had the rear mid engine advantage and the lower limits help to drive it faster in the rain. The Honda is a far superior car from an engineering standpoint with much higher limits. It had double wishbones front and back, a high x bone chassis like the Lotus Elan which makes it as stiff as a normal coupé (or even more) with additional welding points and adhesives, it’s a front mid engine car with a 50/50 weight distribution, shorter and quicker gearing and is much lighter than the Boxster/BMW. Oh yea and it’s reliable. It just takes more skill and time to get used to the Honda, it’s not a beginner friendly car but it’s the perfect car to learn driving on track and to improve your skills, especially compared to any BMW. if you can drive an S2000 at the limits you can drive any car at the limits.
All 3 did in my opinion S2000 is a legendary car now Boxter is now a low price popular used sportscar The Z4 started what eventually became the soul donor for the current Supra All 3 look good (in my opinion)
I noticed a lot more rain on the surface during the S2000 run. S2000 by a mile here. Not only is it more reliable. But it has aged incredibly well. We bought a used 2007 S2000 in 2010. We sold it in 2015 for more than we bought it in 2010. You cannot say the same about the other two.
Yes, you were definitely a wheather specialist in that track at that time to see that there was more rain for the S2000, when you're wrong you start to create some imaginative arguments.
@@gageparris375 It’s not. I’d rather buy a dirt cheap Boxster for $6k, build it for the track, and enjoy the performance- As opposed to buying an overpriced stock S2K, and add on top of that any $ that goes into engine performance.. Ultimately this is what you want though, all the Japanese fanboys can keep their S2Ks, just leave my beautiful Porsches alone and keep hype out of the price tag
@@NetoGod Good luck with them Intermediate Shaft Bearing failures. We can leave you and your precious fake 911s in your garage while you thrown tantrums over opinions of others and calling them "fanboys" in a painfully ironic way.
Most fun car I ever owned was a CRX. It was like a motorcycle with a roof. 4000rpm just to keep with traffic from a light, and loved every second of it.
Jeremy was a visionary with this pick. I was fortunate enough to have driven my uncle’s s2000 and I gotta say it is probably one of the best cars to drive. Now granted I haven’t driven a 986 or a z4 so I obviously I can’t say definitively the s2000 is better but to me it’s hard to imagine them having a better driving experience. Maybe the 986 could beat the s2000 today in terms of value for money because they’re cheaper on average but in my opinion I would still choose a s2000. Also the s2000 is probably much more reliable so I wouldn’t be afraid to drive it hard as it got older
Am I the only one who thinks that when they did the lap time for the S2000, it looked considerably more wet on track compared to the Boxster and Z4? (That being said, I'd take the S2000 over the other two in a heartbeat.)
Yes, it was significantly more wet for the S2000 lap, certainly wet enough to cost it 0.4 seconds. The Porsche lap was the least wet and then the Z4 lap was a little bit more wet and then the S2000 lap was much more wet than either of them. The S2000 is way better than both of those and it’s not even that close.
Interestingly when you look back at this moment and then look a bit forward to The Grand Tour premiere - we got ourselves a bit of deja vu since both instances see Clarkson come dead last while a Porsche storms into the lead
Series 3, episode 2 one of the greatest top gear episodes ever and I really love the first 7 seasons because I drive one of the red cars in the intro scene 😂
They are all talking crap in their own way and its hilarious. What a way to tie it all at the end too. Funny thing is the boxter IS just about identical to the 911 and its much more refined over the other 2 cars.
I drove both and owned both. You are 100% right. S2K is way too over rated. Z4 wins over the S2K in everyway. The only ones here who are crowing about how great it is are the daft Honda fanboys.
The funny part is, having owned that generation Z4, I had literally no problems with it. I liked the ride, it was perfect for autocross and was comfortable enough on a 21 hour drive
captain slow complaining about having a light/efficient and high revving engine with a 6 speed gearbox may be the dumbest thing I've ever heard on this show hahahhaha edit: him mocking the others saying they will have oversteer as his boxster oversteers was worse
I think it’s more the case that they were so sure about their car being the best that they would try and turn downsides into upsides. They did that a lot on Top Gear, it makes it more entertaining. Although I do remember at the time more traditionalist people saying that 6 speeds in a gearbox was unnecessary. My grandad, for example. He drives an auto now though.
I actually enjoy Top Gear of this era the most. It’s not over the top like the later seasons and the Grand Tour. It has all the proper Britishness in it. Just brilliant.
I'd take the s2000, but a Z4M wins. But I'd sooner supercharge an MX5 and put coilovers and brakes on it. Electric roofs are a waste of time. I like putting the roof up and down at 40mph
As boxster owner here, I`m surprised the box is the fastest. I bought my car as a replacement for miatas, drives aggressively, but never expect it to be a faster car. But beating an S2k which got more power is something.
That's kinda shows that mid-engine placement really plays a roll in handling part. Even though i like the Z4, half of my mind forcing me to like the S2000
When I was a 14 years old I was watching top gear,, because I'm in love with cars,,,I work hard 2 get a sport car,,,it was a dream since I was a child,,,now I'm 38 years old,,,and I still dreaming,,,and never I will give up,,,I will own 1 despite I have nothing 💔
pfft we're only talking .1 of a second losing time for the S 2K against the BMW and .4 against the Boxster. I mean, that is great for a car that rides better than the Z4 and is a 4 banger.
These cars are definitely comparable, and boils down to the owner's tastes. Lap Times: 01:37.0 Porsche Boxster (very wet) 01:37.3 BMW Z4 3.0i (very wet) (E85) 01:37.4 Honda S2000 (very wet) Series 03, Episode 02 No one just bothers stripping the Boxster and Z4 Down and Spending a Gajillion on Suspension Mods like they do on the S2000 so they don't become serious Track Cars. (Except for the Spec Boxster. and a Spec Boxster with even more Weight Loss mods like Carbon Bits, Even more extreme Tires, would definitely compete with the legendary S2000s in Japan.)
Absolutely true. The whole point is they are all very different cars that deliver "performance" in different ways. Track times aren't the whole story, it's how much fun you have getting there.
The S2000 can spend very brief instances on occasion at 10000+ RPM because they are extremely hard to rev match and extremely easy to money shift accidentally. The AP2 can handle it because people kept blowing engines up in the AP1 (which could not rev that high) and Honda decided to build the engine to take high RPMs
It's fascinating to look back on this, because today I'd quite like to either have a 986 Boxster or an S2000, but I'm heavily leaning towards the Porsche because it's CHEAPER. God bless the man who came up with those ugly headlights - he gave us all a $10,000 discount on our Porsches.
TELL ME ABOUT IT! I actually like how different the car looks with it’s headlights. Nothing wrong with a black swan/ugly duckling. Porsche is hands down the best and DONT mess about, get the 3.2L and just ROCKNROLLA
We just got a 2003 boxter with 200 miles on it and it was only $10,000 no issues and we’ve had it for 8 months
Used car prices are insane right now. So many of those old German cars that people didn’t care for are shooting up.
Everyone wants those headlights now. My 986 is more expensive than when I bought it 8years ago
@@m.a.4949 I think the word has gotten out that the 986 is an excellent car. If Miata is always the answer, the 986 is always there in the same conversation these days. People are starting to realize that the IMA thing isn't that big of a deal too.
I've been seeing some really surprising 986 prices lately, as well as some suspiciously cheap 987s. Not long ago a 987 was triple the price; now it's maybe 50% more.
This is such a good segment that encapsulates old top gear so well
My favorite in the entire series.
I almost died when Jeremy did his American accent "It's Sportee!"
Spordee
Had a buddy from buffalo (I’m in ont.) I heard his impression and folded immediately lol sounded jus like him
“Got no suspension it’s spordee!”
Because “hey it’s spordee, it’s spordee got no suspension! It’s spordee!”
I've watched top gear for almost 20 years now, an I can categorically say, THIS is the only time Jeremy has ever been right.
So I assume you had/have all three........................... ok.
hayios0 why all three and not all cars Jeremy tested in 20 years? Do i smell a bmw fanboy? 😂
@@lukazupie7220 JDM fan boy**
@@lukazupie7220
To state that Clarkson is right on that one, means that he has first hand knowledge on the three. Dont know what you talking about, owning all cars Jeremy tested. If he thinks that someone is correct instead of an other, you should have the knowledge. Really need an explanation?
@@_Davepocalypse The S2000 is a good car but should not even compete with these european sports cars.
Fast forward 20 years and the S2000 is way more expensive than the other two
Cause it’s better
@@michaelwagner1759 exactly😆
And also believe it or not, the s2000 has one of the best engines that Honda ever made. F20c
@@taylormordoch9802 one of the best engines ever made period.
@@drfredostein4410 true, my neighbor had one, he sold it with 195,000 miles still ran good
Old Top Gear feels more natural and not scripted. You can feel the close friendship they have.
This is a huge overlooked point, and you're absolutely right. It never *felt* scripted, even though I'm sure it was. The newer series feels scripted and artificial. With Jeremy, James and Richard it was just like your mates having a go at each other, which is why it was such fun to watch.
@@loveleyday you been smoking the devils lettuce mate jesus holy christmas
@@lucagiambrone1107 Anyway, back to the studio...
@@loveleyday it does feel scripted as it is. However, it's a bit like Fast & Furious 1 is a good and subtle movie compared to the last 5 that we had.
They all despised each other.
Jeremy's American accent is hilarious
it was and it honestly passes for a real one
Hey it's SPORTY!
*breaks back*
@@Sbarrett1 always gets me 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
You prolly dont give a damn but does any of you know a way to log back into an instagram account..?
I was stupid forgot my login password. I love any tips you can offer me
@Kye Sullivan Instablaster :)
I have to go with Jeremy on this one. The S2000 is a legendary car.
Indeed, just look at the Js Racing S2000, that thing just pounced every track car easily
@@hybridShinx That is a modded car as f/ck... try against a 911 Cup or a Z4 GT300
@@FEGTTTSDH their lap times should be very close, you be surprised what that S2000 is capable of, it's not just a modded street car, thats a full on race car
One of my favourite bits of this as a Z4 owner is that May said as an American style car it’s more cup holder than cornering, but most Z4s didn’t have cup holders and it seems to be all the owners group can talk about 😂
When Jeremy pulled out the S-2000 I laughed in happiness 😄😎
I swear, I could watch these guys arguing in a kitchen for weeks on end
BMW 3.0L = 228 HP
Porsche 2.7L = 225 HP
Honda 2.0L = 240 HP
And people wonder why Honda holds it's value waaaay way better than the other two
Honda reliability helps a lot and the F20 had highest NA engine hp/liter efficiency.
Unbiased view here, most of these were on wards top 10 list for years.
BMW M54B30 had 228hp vs the honda 237hp (europe) so a total of 9hp difference.
Doesn't really matter but BMW is under stresed and honda has to rev its nuts off.
F20c honda had 155ft-lb vs the BMW 221ft-lb... which the BMW needs for its extra 90KG of weight.
I6 will be smoother and side by side shouldn't be too different all else being equal.
Reason why bmw was detuned though....
S54B32 from Z4 M roadster had 338hp and 269 lb⋅ft of torque.
If you wanted a sportscar you bought the Z4 M and if you wanted the looks without the punch you got the Z4 normal.
In typical japanese fashion when honda made the S2000 they aimed to make the best car they could to fit the design....so they only made 1 version (mostly), They didn't sell a watered down version with a B18 or whatever.
Fact is depending on your budget and philosophy its nice to know there's no real bad option.
More power, less displacement and it still could not beat the Porsche.
@@tomstech4390 But there are ones that are better than others.
@@midiskyline and the F20c motors were built like tanks. They can run forever.
6:08 "what's this bulge in my pocket?" It's because I've heard and driven the Honda!
Keep uploading mate trust me the views will come, also thank you for uploading videos that are hard to find
It would've been so cool if they did a remake of this episode with each cars highest trim level. I love Top Gear and these cars.
That was the top level S2000. If you did it with the other 2 they'd cost even more.
They had an ep with the Boxster S and Z4M.
Thank you for putting this video up. It's hard to find.
Fascinating comparison this was at the time. With the benefit of hindsight many see the mid-engine intuitive drive of the Boxter stands out, the Z4 was considered too heavy and unrefined, the S2000 despite the excellent engine and agility absent of steering feel and with harsh limits. All three retain their fans today
Can you imagine the 3 of them living in the same house? It'd be the ONLY reality show I'd watch!
I meane even watching James and Richard poach eggs was entertaining as hell and got millions of views.
Honestly a special where they are all in only one car would be awsome.
@@joelikespotatoes8321 That's an awesome idea! The Caravanning holiday was the closest thing to that I can remember and that was hilarious
@@noahduffin5492 Go watch the deleted scene where they talk about the himalaya camping where they begin to tell what was to actually share camp with each other those nights.. James impression of Jezza sleeping was the best thing i ever saw from him.
I absolutely adore Porsche, I've owned a 914, but on this occasion Jeremy is right. The BMW isn't quite as reliable as you might imagine and the Porsche has depreciated drastically partly because of its absolutely hideous headlights. The tuning community loves the S200 because of its simplicity and ease of maintenance. Plus it hasn't depreciated as much. Thanks.
its appreciating a fuckload rn m8
And the s2000 sounds amazing
The S2000s are mostly 20-30K these days with crappy ones being under 20k
Exactly, it depreciated because of the headlights, not because it’s outdated.
What? The M54 BMW engine is essentially bulletproof if you’re proactive
Despite the Boxter's awful looks, I have to say that it looked like it handled beautifully even in the rain.
All 3 of these cars are still fun as hell to this day.
i drive a boxster S and my brother an s2000. let me just say that both cars are so incredibly fun to drive
you two ever swap 'em for a week? that would be so much fun imo
Hammond is pretty pissed in that pub scene hahaha
I got the biggest grin when Jeremy came on with an S2000 - more power than the BMW out of a 4 cylinder is no joke
Yeah, if you thrash it. Normal driving is a hassle unless you're like Mario Andretti all the time.
I have a 2007 Z4 3.0si - these make more hp than the S2000 and a LOT more torque.
I'm an owner of a 2002 S2000 GT, and hands down it's the better car 👍
@@TucsonDude even if u trash it, it has just few more hp and A LOT less torque, so in the real world, it's not even close. but TV, u know..
@@mistrekuWell i would hope they could achieve more torque from a 3 liter 6 cylinder than a 2 liter 4 cylinder, but even with 2 cylinders more they still couldn't reach the same level of engine performance as the Honda. Fact is, the F20c is just in another league of engineering and is a way better engine.
I’m buying the Boxster for its practicality. Space in the front and rear is hard to pass up in a two seater.
Love this segment, glad you uploaded it. S2000 still won. To be .4 slower around a specific track than a more expensive boxster and BM. Plus the reliability, the looks, and the fact you can add another 25-40 horses relatively cheaply, without sacrificing reliability, makes the S2000 the best. Not only that S2000's dont go below 15k now, most in the 20s. You can find a boxster for about 5 now, easy.
L is for Loser.
I don’t see being more expensive to buy as an advantage.
@@iSkully99 Me neither.
@Andy Raposo Rubio those w12/v12 landyachts drive like canal boats and can only dream of being a tenth of the fun that these lightweight sports cars bring
OK, to all the people claiming the S2000 is more reliable than a 3l + engine with the same power output: get your head out of your arse and start reading some basic mechanics. I'm soooo tired of this teenager argument.
7:36
That awkward moment when you realise the drink drive limit used to be a tipple higher than it is today!
James did seem very drunk at 8:02 to be fair.
Best review ever. True passion and discussion
"it's got too many gears-6, too few cylinders-4 and too many revs-9 😂"
That comment from James never really made sense to me. Lol
Too many gears because 6th is probably just for better highway mpg and probably not needed, too few cylinders because for a NA engine sports car it doesnt make that much torque, and too many revs because to be in the powerband to pass people you probably have to be in the 4k+ range making the lower rev range sort of useless, my take on it
@@Garf2O I think Honda opted for a 6-speed to better space the gearing, because as you said, the S2000's engine doesn't produce much torque. So, you have to rev the nuts out of it before it does anything useful. Having many gears means after you shift from the redline, your RPMs fall in the sweet spot along the rev range where the engine produce the most horsepower/torque. 6-speed boxes might be much more expensive to produce than 5-speeds, but still, James saying it's too many, doesn't make sense.
@@jeremybcenteno i own a 5 speed car and the 6 speed makes sense for 2 reasons, 1 you can have a (i think) shorter gear ratio for the rear diff like a 4.10 or something for acceleration and still have enough gears so it can still reach a decent top speed and have a good enough cruising rpm on the freeway, and 2 if you turbo or supercharge it the car will still have enough legs for higher speed runs so you dont run out of gears as fast, although usually you can reach like 150ish in 5th gear on most cars anyway.
@@Garf2O Final gear ratio isn't an issue, you can have the same final gear ratio of a 6-speed on a 5, or even a 4 speed. The difference is how quick it gets there.
I had a 2005 S2000, supposedly the "softer" one. I had it for three years and only put about 18k miles on it. It was uncomfortable due to the hard ride, hard to get in and out, and noisy. However, It was a looker in silver and fun on dry roads, and I sold it for more than I paid.
The Z4 is still looking sharp in 2022. Can not say the same about the Boxter.
As a testament to this, I bought one of my own just this past year. I love the thing. I got a 2003 version that looks just about identical to the one in this video and it still gets heads turning 19 years later
Agreed, I have a 2007 3.0si daily driver. It is an absolute blast and still looks and drives amazing. Get compliments all the time. The sound is heaven, there's always torque and they're not expensive to own.
God that Z4 in topaz blue is just otherworldly!
Mmm. That's why I bought one. All the others you see are either black or silver. All three great cars, though, any of which would be a pleasure to own.
@@quietenglishman4179 I don't blame you, it's a great car, the Z3 looks great in blue also. Out of the three shown on the show I think I'd have the S2000 although I think it's about double the price of the other two now.
@@Scampi95 I had a Maldives blue Z3, until a sweet old lady reversed into it, writing it off. I looked for a replacement but they were all tatty then a friend offered me a go in his Z4. End of story, really: the car is so much better than the Z3. S2000s are both rare and very expensive round here.
Whats crazy is when I bought the bmw z4 in 2012 so about 8 years old...the Honda s2000 was out of my price range. So even though he says it was 5 and 6k less than the other two. It held its value better as I bought the z4 because I couldn't afford the s2000
HAHAH i want to buy s2000 but I will probably get the z4 and do a honda engine swap
@jiggletit5846 the engines are like 5k looool
Love my Z4, for the record.
Man i always liked the design of the Z4, but the S2000 has aged with such grace it's still is a looker if you see one! You could build that car with minor modernisations today and noone would notice. The Boxster on the other hand, oh my...
Agree with JC here. The pick of sports cars for sure
5:10, that BMW definitely sounds the best
Yeah the S2k engine doesn't sound great but with a standard exhaust and knN inductuction believe me they sound amazing on V-tech but stealth n quite in low revs
The 3.0 Si motor sounds even better and with 40 extra hp.
The S2000 is undoubtedly the best roadster ever made. It encompasses Honda's legendary motorsports heritage, mainly its total domination of Formula 1 for years and combining it with precision engineering, bulletproof reliability, beauty and FUN.
And I bet you anything, it would have won the lap times by atleast 2 seconds on a dry track.
What about z4 has better lap time on the Nurburgring than S2000?
Total domination of F1? Are you feeling ok?
@@amapolishplummer Apparently he is not. The BMW Z4 is the greatest roadster ever made.
@@razyz5745 Are you a crack addict?
You have no idea
3 lovely cars, the z4 has the looks.
that s2k is such a beauty
I'd first like to say I wish I could have them all at once for a few years to properly know how they drive before I choose one.
I've had two Miata's, then a 2001 2.2l S2000, and now a 2001 3.0l Z3. I was hoping then to get a Boxter S to compare. But now I see if I preferred an earlier one listed I might not be able to re-purchase it .
A year after I sold my S2000 it doubled in value.
the Miata's were fun and inexpensive, but gutless.
The S2000 was superior in handling and the 6th gear was practical on the freeway and allowed to cruise at 90 all day.
However my inital reasons for changing were because I couldnt put my left knee up between the door and steering wheel, I couldnt rest my left arm on the edge of the door as it is too tall, and I got tired of constantly shifting and revmatching to keep in the power band.
I do mostly twisty mountain roads. but sometimes it takes time to get there.
Thats when I changed to the Z3 (3liter only or better). I love the torque as I can stay in a range of gears and it will still pull. ( a little more cabin room allows lazy arm on door, and left knee bent when on long straight cruises).
However, I can seriously feel the extra weight in corners, and any speed over 75 feels like it might fishtail off the road.
At this point I wish I'd kept the S2000, but I like the idea of the Porsche balance and weight distribution. but unreliability scares me.
Nice analysis 👍
One of my favourite TG segments ever.
The S2000 is the the best car but I loved Jeremy's reaction when it lost in the laps. BTW the S2000 had the wetter conditions of the 3.
Watching this, it's amazing how much better the S2000 has aged than it's competitors. The tone of the piece casts the S2000 as an underdog, but hindsight has left it a modern classic while the BMW is barely an afterthought.
This mostly due to the car tuning scene, i suppose?
In defense of the Z4 they have continued to evolve and are pretty ridiculous these days.
@waswat nope, even to this day the S2000 competes with modern sports cars
This is the one time James is right the Porsche Boxster is the best the 986 is my personal favorite
Just that it’s not, the Honda would beat it in the dry in capable hands. it just had the rear mid engine advantage and the lower limits help to drive it faster in the rain. The Honda is a far superior car from an engineering standpoint with much higher limits. It had double wishbones front and back, a high x bone chassis like the Lotus Elan which makes it as stiff as a normal coupé (or even more) with additional welding points and adhesives, it’s a front mid engine car with a 50/50 weight distribution, shorter and quicker gearing and is much lighter than the Boxster/BMW. Oh yea and it’s reliable. It just takes more skill and time to get used to the Honda, it’s not a beginner friendly car but it’s the perfect car to learn driving on track and to improve your skills, especially compared to any BMW. if you can drive an S2000 at the limits you can drive any car at the limits.
Is it just me or did the Boxster age like a fine wine
All 3 did in my opinion
S2000 is a legendary car now
Boxter is now a low price popular used sportscar
The Z4 started what eventually became the soul donor for the current Supra
All 3 look good (in my opinion)
The new Supra/Z4 share a new dedicated and co developed chassis and has nothing to do with old Z3
No. It's still ugly as sin. The replacements were much better looking.
glad this has been posted again, i posted this segment years ago and it was taken down by youtube
Four-hundredths of a second faster, for an extra 6k, that’s 150k pounds a second.
Almost on par with the labor rate to work on BMWs.
It’s four tenths of a second - maybe recalculate? 😅
I noticed a lot more rain on the surface during the S2000 run. S2000 by a mile here. Not only is it more reliable. But it has aged incredibly well. We bought a used 2007 S2000 in 2010. We sold it in 2015 for more than we bought it in 2010. You cannot say the same about the other two.
S2000 thrashed a Boxster and an M3 on Best Motoring International.
As someone getting into any of these, how is the price inflation a good thing? I bought a manual 3.0i Z4 for literally $5k and it's every bit as fun.
Yes, you were definitely a wheather specialist in that track at that time to see that there was more rain for the S2000, when you're wrong you start to create some imaginative arguments.
@@gageparris375 It’s not. I’d rather buy a dirt cheap Boxster for $6k, build it for the track, and enjoy the performance- As opposed to buying an overpriced stock S2K, and add on top of that any $ that goes into engine performance.. Ultimately this is what you want though, all the Japanese fanboys can keep their S2Ks, just leave my beautiful Porsches alone and keep hype out of the price tag
@@NetoGod Good luck with them Intermediate Shaft Bearing failures. We can leave you and your precious fake 911s in your garage while you thrown tantrums over opinions of others and calling them "fanboys" in a painfully ironic way.
The BMW was ahead of it's time in one aspect....
Now nearly all cars are designed with no suspension ;)
you’ve obviously never sat in a car with adaptive springs
they sell rubber rings mate for your sore private area
It was the run flat tires. I swapped mine out for Michelins and it's a glorious improvement, smooth and comfortable but still quite sensitive.
I always loved this segment!
I have to agree with Jeremy, the s2k is a beast
Each has its own pros and cons to the point where I can't decide which I'd prefer. Leaning towards the BMW, mainly on looks.
Owned a Z4M. Loved it.
Own a 986S. Still getting to know it.
As for the S2000.... I had a CRX once! Lol
Most fun car I ever owned was a CRX. It was like a motorcycle with a roof. 4000rpm just to keep with traffic from a light, and loved every second of it.
I bunked-off work to watch them film this. Chatted to RH who was happy to talk bikes and seemed like a really nice bloke.
All 3 of these cars sound like heaven to the ears. If your watching this driving your sedan any one sounds like Freedom.
Honda fan boi here: I'm gonna blame it on the tires.
Thanks for uploading this great car the s2000 never got the credit it deserved
It got more than it ever had, definitely not deserved, average quality car.
I think it did honestly, honda probably dropped the ball not making more versions of it
@Andy Raposo Rubio For "japanese junk" it sure was the most reliable of the three and held its value the best.
Jeremy was a visionary with this pick. I was fortunate enough to have driven my uncle’s s2000 and I gotta say it is probably one of the best cars to drive. Now granted I haven’t driven a 986 or a z4 so I obviously I can’t say definitively the s2000 is better but to me it’s hard to imagine them having a better driving experience. Maybe the 986 could beat the s2000 today in terms of value for money because they’re cheaper on average but in my opinion I would still choose a s2000. Also the s2000 is probably much more reliable so I wouldn’t be afraid to drive it hard as it got older
Am I the only one who thinks that when they did the lap time for the S2000, it looked considerably more wet on track compared to the Boxster and Z4?
(That being said, I'd take the S2000 over the other two in a heartbeat.)
Yes, it was significantly more wet for the S2000 lap, certainly wet enough to cost it 0.4 seconds. The Porsche lap was the least wet and then the Z4 lap was a little bit more wet and then the S2000 lap was much more wet than either of them. The S2000 is way better than both of those and it’s not even that close.
Interestingly when you look back at this moment and then look a bit forward to The Grand Tour premiere - we got ourselves a bit of deja vu since both instances see Clarkson come dead last while a Porsche storms into the lead
I would take the Z4, it’s my all time favourite car
It looks and sounds like a roadster should
I would take the Boxster, it’s my all time favourite car
4:18 As a person whose mom drives a Honda Odyssey with a 3.5 J35 VTEC, can confirm.
Series 3, episode 2 one of the greatest top gear episodes ever and I really love the first 7 seasons because I drive one of the red cars in the intro scene 😂
Jeremy's face when he heard the better sounding car. He does love a good sounding car. Genuinely disappointed face he had
😂👍🏻
He was really trying to hide it
They are all talking crap in their own way and its hilarious. What a way to tie it all at the end too. Funny thing is the boxter IS just about identical to the 911 and its much more refined over the other 2 cars.
This is the first episode where they began showing their trio energy
Does anyone know what the song is when James first introduces the Boxster?
I would love for them to come back to these cars
Thanks for uploading this. I forgot how good it was.
Man I really do miss this era of top gear.
Definitely the Honda out of the 3 here. Also, as a Cayman and 911 owner, the cayman is more "fun" and the 911 feels more "capable".
Funny how these cars have depreciated, the cheapest of the three being the s2000 and the one that’s held it’s money the best
Some crack addicted JDM fans who think Japan has more success than Europe in terms of automotive history.
@@viniciusmagnoni6492 The Germans might be more successful but the rest of europe ... i don't think so lol
@@viniciusmagnoni6492 look at the wrc
porsche one looks theb est, particularly in the yelloW!
I’ve owned both the Honda and the Z 3.0i The Z is by far the better drivers car and turns more heads...
I drove both and owned both. You are 100% right. S2K is way too over rated. Z4 wins over the S2K in everyway. The only ones here who are crowing about how great it is are the daft Honda fanboys.
"you're nearest" proceeds to point to the only super model in the building
Ive seen the honda go up to 37k but u can buy the Porsche nd the bmw for 4k-6k
Basically you get better cars for less money.
@@viniciusmagnoni6492 Or, you're paying less because it's an inferior product and it's worth less
what a gold era that one... such great cars. wish I bought one and kept it to these days (especially BMW and Honda)
The funny part is, having owned that generation Z4, I had literally no problems with it. I liked the ride, it was perfect for autocross and was comfortable enough on a 21 hour drive
I’m assuming theirs was on period run-flats.. awful things
5:12 Clarkson seemed kinda shocked by the BMW il6
captain slow complaining about having a light/efficient and high revving engine with a 6 speed gearbox may be the dumbest thing I've ever heard on this show hahahhaha
edit: him mocking the others saying they will have oversteer as his boxster oversteers was worse
He must truly hate GT3s!
I think it’s more the case that they were so sure about their car being the best that they would try and turn downsides into upsides. They did that a lot on Top Gear, it makes it more entertaining.
Although I do remember at the time more traditionalist people saying that 6 speeds in a gearbox was unnecessary. My grandad, for example. He drives an auto now though.
In a race it would be good but it has the power band too high and not enough torque for daily use
They all look so much healthier. I know it’s a long time ago but still...
See what happens when you quit smoking?
It's like 20 years ago. I'm not surprised 😂
Smoking, poor diet, age, drink, long haul flights…many years of travelling
I actually enjoy Top Gear of this era the most. It’s not over the top like the later seasons and the Grand Tour. It has all the proper Britishness in it. Just brilliant.
Apart from the Boxster being brilliant , you can get tons of stuff in it ..
I'd take the s2000, but a Z4M wins. But I'd sooner supercharge an MX5 and put coilovers and brakes on it.
Electric roofs are a waste of time. I like putting the roof up and down at 40mph
As boxster owner here, I`m surprised the box is the fastest. I bought my car as a replacement for miatas, drives aggressively, but never expect it to be a faster car. But beating an S2k which got more power is something.
That's kinda shows that mid-engine placement really plays a roll in handling part. Even though i like the Z4, half of my mind forcing me to like the S2000
The S2000 us actually mid engined
I would give several bodyparts to have anyone of these right now
Or you could just like, get a job for a year or two and buy one you know
@@Garf2O or you could just be less of a killjoy
gonna have to if you want a S2K lol, those things are quickly gaining value
this aged better than fine wine.
When I was a 14 years old I was watching top gear,, because I'm in love with cars,,,I work hard 2 get a sport car,,,it was a dream since I was a child,,,now I'm 38 years old,,,and I still dreaming,,,and never I will give up,,,I will own 1 despite I have nothing 💔
pfft we're only talking .1 of a second losing time for the S 2K against the BMW and .4 against the Boxster. I mean, that is great for a car that rides better than the Z4 and is a 4 banger.
and it's NA ;)
@@binskee677 yeah,
Love the s2000
The prices interest me, the Porsche is now half the price of the Honda where I’m living
Van Inhalin. Brilliant.
These cars are definitely comparable, and boils down to the owner's tastes.
Lap Times:
01:37.0 Porsche Boxster (very wet)
01:37.3 BMW Z4 3.0i (very wet) (E85)
01:37.4 Honda S2000 (very wet)
Series 03, Episode 02
No one just bothers stripping the Boxster and Z4 Down and Spending a Gajillion on Suspension Mods like they do on the S2000 so they don't become serious Track Cars. (Except for the Spec Boxster. and a Spec Boxster with even more Weight Loss mods like Carbon Bits, Even more extreme Tires, would definitely compete with the legendary S2000s in Japan.)
I've got a road legal S2000 by todays standards no exactly fast at all but with all the mods it's a beast in the corners and the fun factor is mad
Absolutely true. The whole point is they are all very different cars that deliver "performance" in different ways. Track times aren't the whole story, it's how much fun you have getting there.
The S2000 can spend very brief instances on occasion at 10000+ RPM because they are extremely hard to rev match and extremely easy to money shift accidentally. The AP2 can handle it because people kept blowing engines up in the AP1 (which could not rev that high) and Honda decided to build the engine to take high RPMs
brilliant
long live the trio
6:08
legends will say that he still has the 6k pounds in his pocket
Jeremy was definitely right. The S2K is a fantastic car, shame I have basically no chance of owning one ever since they started appreciating like mad.