How often do you find yourself arguing with a book? I must admit... I do it more than I should. No time like the present to try and improve! If you find that you do not have a coffee in hand while watching these coffee break videos... well we can fix that. Check out the coffee I roast here. cedarotacoffee.com/
@myself2noone you presume to know which ideas are crazy or sane before even giving them due consideration. If you are capable of such powers of pre-discernment then you are the wisest of men to have existed. By what means can you make such determinations without consideration?
That is very well stated. I can't add much to that. Everytime I go into something thinking I know what is crazy or sane I am often humbled. My point is just allowing yourself to be humbled. Thanks for watching and stay blessed!
Well said, Rob! This can be a tough one, because while most of us know enough to back out of the cave after rading "Mein Kampf," most of us are also susceptible to getting trapped in the cave by some other less well-known book of similar outlook. The hard thing--for me, anyway--is to step back from my own enthusiasm or anti-enthusiasm for a particular book, and to ask myself, "Is that a reasoned sensible reaction, or did it just pick me up by the scruff of the neck and say, 'You're coming with me!'"
This is one reason I prefer not to read introductions to books until AFTER I've read a book. I prefer to (as much as possible) engage a book on its own terms and not by the biases of the person who wrote the intro. Another note: you have to believe in truth a capital "T" if you want to have an open mind and truly engage a book. When I was in the Online Great Book program (RIP) the owner emphasized that good faith dialogue can only occur if everyone agrees that there is A truth that can be known. I often think the reason dialog today devolves into shrill yelling is because many belief there is no truth to be known, just power.
I really like that. No Truth, just power. Looking through these comments, it is scary to see so many people who think it wrong to look at "wrong" or challenging views. No one realizes the level of confirmation bias we have as a result of saying culturally, "If they're wrong about one thing, they're wrong about everything." without ever attempting to understand their view. An open mind is the key to dialogue, which leads to real progress. No wonder everyone is so alienated. Can't find common ground if you put someone in a box.
Thanks, interesting video. Reminded me of my anthropology classes where we would try to do a close reading of a text to hear it from its own perspective. We didn't need to believe it, but we were trying to put our own views aside and see the internal consistency in a text. Sometimes I'll make a note if an author seems to be inconsistent or is making an unconscious assumption (unless it's a work of fiction that's just for fun). I don't mind demanding a bit of rigour in my authors. Anyhow, I agree that a reading technique like that gives you a chance to see the world in a different way, and that can be really interesting. Seeing the world in a different way can often be useful too.
I think this argument is interesting. It depends on the purpose you are reading. I find myself often reading to validate especially when I am doing research and finding supporting material for a project. However, reading to learn, understand, and be challenged is the most rewarding.
I agree with you that research is a good way to validate findings and that it should be done. I try to keep my mind open to the idea of being wrong but allowing the book to challenge you is a very good point. What do you research if you do not mind me asking?
Thanks for the video Rob. It's very important to put yourself in the shoes of the writer during the time. Which is sad because most people call Dickens outdated just because his "language" is different than ours. Same thing with science and philosophy. I think often times the old is more correct than the new. Love and Peace.
Thanks for sharing! I will have to look that one up. I have heard of Keats but not familiar with his works. Thanks for watching and stay blessed my friend!
Well, Rob-if we all had your attitude and perspective, we could actually engage in meaningful conversations with a much wider range of people over a much wider spectrum of topics!! What a thought… Thanks for your content, it’s a blessing!
Rob, this was a great video. Much of what you have said reminds me of my time as a philosophy undergraduate. Some philosophers challenged me, and I was comfortable with being challenged. Of course, there were times when I read an author with my ego (Nietzsche and Murakami), but after revisiting them, I found myself enjoying the challenge. I am lucky to have parents who encouraged critical thinking when I was younger. Keep up the good work!
Very good video!!! In looking back. I have to agree. Especially since I have read a lot on WW2. I wanted to learn some of the how’s and why’s the war started. For nothing is ever is just black and white. Especially in history. One book called Stalin’s War. Can’t think of the author right now. It’s absolutely amazing and astonishing how much material we supplied them. One thing he tries to make you think. Is how Roosevelt, agreed to all of it . But I would argue one point. Stalin may have thought he got one on him. But at the same time, the war in the eastern front took most of Germany’s resources. It helped us in that it weakened them to help our invasion succeed. There is more to this . An this is a simplified answer. There is another book that deals with some of the decisions made that set the things in motion. But I agree with you .
That is a great analysis to consider. I have migrated away from the read to validate towards the read to discover over the years and it have been very rewarding.
Yep, just yesterday. Working on what appears something fun entitled "Covert Cows" by Steve Robinson but didn't get past the words before (the foreword) when I found myself wanting a pink market for highlights and a chisel tip permanent black sharpie for my comments in the margin. 😅 I know, it's a library book but still...
haha yes indeed. Just was working through his genealogy of morals and man.. I have to pause and really think about what all is being said. Such a unique thinker. Thanks for watching and stay blessed!
@@The_Cause The German philosophers are kind of my thing. That being said, I have yet to get around to Hegel as well. I hope to read him at some point in 2025. I have only recently gotten into ancient Greeks. I read the Republic forever ago, but then I worked my way to the Germans as fast as possible.
I would probably say something very similar as you in the video, although in different words. I fully agree that us sitting on the judgement thrown because we are of course the most insightful people is a stupid thing to do. That applies both for us as individuals as well as us as a society. Because of that we should put ourselves into the cave again, like you said. Although this analogy implies that we are outside the cave while the people with other opinions are by definition inferior. Once we actually understand it it is also important to leave that cave again and combine it with your previous knowledge. The good thing of understanding several position is that we can more closely understand those biases and blindspots that come with those individual positions. I wish I were like this, but I only do it to a very limited degree. I dislike challenging my core believes and I dislike exploring a good number of views. Because I'm aware of that I apply those principles on those ideas which are tolerable and interesting to me. Thanks to that I can still gain those benefits, to a smaller degree. How easy is it for you to honestly listening to opposing views?
I read a book at university by Robert Anton Wilson called Prometheus Rising and, in that book, he makes the point that you should expose yourself to something you vehemently disagree with. He gives the example of an Atheist reading an Evangelical Christian magazine. The point of the exercise is to read someone and appreciate that someone, somewhere as vehemently agrees with this narrative as you vehemently disagree. Everyone thinks they’re right; none of us are. Stay humble. But don’t be so open-minded that your brain falls out of your head…
Was recently reading True Believer by Eric Hoffer, thinking I would be validating my beliefs and found myself not agreeing with him several times throughout. Still a good read.
I’m currently having this struggle while reading Bunyan’s “Pilgrim’s Progress.” As a non-Christian who finds evangelism immoral, I find the books heavy handed moralism difficult to connect with emotionally. But in its historical context -a persecuted puritan literally writing to a semi-literate audience in prison when novels themselves are only a few decades old-I find it interesting.
His story is pretty crazy! I can't wait to cover it when we get to it in the Harvard Classics. It was one of Ben Franklin's favorite books. As I have been reading through the classics I noticed an almost need to be versed in the scripture to truly get a good grasp of most of these works such as Paradise Lost and others. Did you find this to be the case as well?
Thank you for this pithy video-talk! I'd like to know whether your concept of reading "not to validate, but to discover" applies not only to (ostensible) non-fiction, but also to fiction--whether or not said fiction has some "axe to grind."
We should always question what we read, but I don't think I go into books thinking, "this book will fit my beliefs." We are to study God's word and change ourselves to align with it, not the other way around. And when we read books or hear things that go against God's word we should absolutely argue with the book/or the author's point(s) of view. I especially have issues with men who write philosophy since it's the philosophy of men, not God. And God tells us to beware of that. (tickling ears and whatnot) I absolutely am not "willing to absorb all perspectives" the "light of truth" is Jesus. This doesn't mean I won't read books I think/most likely will disagree with, but I compare man's word to God's Truth. You call it reaffirming my biases, I'm fine with that. It's how I have better discernment and how I'm able to pick apart man's writings. Founding Mothers by Roberts was such a disappointing book. I have Mein Kampf on my tbr. I just finished reading a book where the author was extremely racist and it was very hard to read. I absolutely didn't pick it up to reaffirm my biases. One could say the Bible would reaffirm my biases, but because I have to conform to God, that isn't even true. Most of my reading is to learn. Enjoy your vacation.
Very good points and thanks so much for sharing! I guess this video was more for my own issues. A point from the Bible is the Pharisees taking the words so literal and the ideas so concrete that they could not even listen to teachings of Christ. It was the religious that Jesus could not get to understand. A lesson there for me is I do not want to be so caught up my truth that I miss his truth. In the past I would be a Pharisee saying I know better. But I don’t. Thanks so much for watching and sharing and stay blessed my friend!
@@The_Cause The main problem with the Pharisees was their adding to God's word. I know what you mean. nodding head. I was recently asked what my denomination was because I called out a fictional book as having witchcraft in it. I know this because of my upbringing POV. But when I told the young man I don't have a denomination because there aren't any in the Bible. I don't believe in the "nondenominational" churches either. Ah! Now I understand where you're coming from. I was worried. I understand about not getting stuck in the trap of being a know it all. We are to be salty though and some people will be convicted and say you're (or is it just me?) judging. Which is another thing a lot of people get wrong by confusing judging character or sins, by trying to sharpen brethren, but not condemning. But that's a whole other topic. I'm so glad you explained this to me. Thank you. Many blessings to you and your family.
I don’t agree. I read to grow, for self improvement and to expand my mind. I don’t need to spend time reading racist, defunct political theories or other anti social manifestos. Life is too short.
Very good video!!! In looking back. I have to agree. Especially since I have read a lot on WW2. I wanted to learn some of the how’s and why’s the war started. For nothing is ever is just black and white. Especially in history. One book called Stalin’s War. Can’t think of the author right now. It’s absolutely amazing and astonishing how much material we supplied them. One thing he tries to make you think. Is how Roosevelt, agreed to all of it . But I would argue one point. Stalin may have thought he got one on him. But at the same time, the war in the eastern front took most of Germany’s resources. It helped us in that it weakened them to help our invasion succeed. There is more to this . An this is a simplified answer. There is another book that deals with some of the decisions made that set the things in motion. But I agree with you .
Wow that is great information. I will have to check out that book! WW2 is an insane time when you start looking at it form all the different angles. The science, the philosophy, the production and economies during that time were changing so fast. That was the period who went from horse and buggy to 40-50 years later nuclear weapons. I want to learn more about the Russian side of the conflict as you mentioned. Love this comment. Thanks for watching and stay blessed my friend!
You might not realize this. But historians, instead of WW 1, and WW2. They call the period from 1914-1945 The World Wars. For how WW1 ended and the treaty. Set in motion in a way WW2
How often do you find yourself arguing with a book? I must admit... I do it more than I should. No time like the present to try and improve! If you find that you do not have a coffee in hand while watching these coffee break videos... well we can fix that. Check out the coffee I roast here.
cedarotacoffee.com/
Before coffee… A lot! Afterwards, I can tolerate a tad better.
The first thing being absorbed is coffee… after that, lets the chips fall where they may!
Here here! I confirm!
This is a problem for all of us, I think. We need to practice "steel-manning" the arguments we are most against.
You are a wise man.
I don't think it's particularly wise to sane wash crazy ideas. But whatever.
@myself2noone you presume to know which ideas are crazy or sane before even giving them due consideration. If you are capable of such powers of pre-discernment then you are the wisest of men to have existed. By what means can you make such determinations without consideration?
That is very well stated. I can't add much to that. Everytime I go into something thinking I know what is crazy or sane I am often humbled. My point is just allowing yourself to be humbled. Thanks for watching and stay blessed!
Well said, Rob! This can be a tough one, because while most of us know enough to back out of the cave after rading "Mein Kampf," most of us are also susceptible to getting trapped in the cave by some other less well-known book of similar outlook. The hard thing--for me, anyway--is to step back from my own enthusiasm or anti-enthusiasm for a particular book, and to ask myself, "Is that a reasoned sensible reaction, or did it just pick me up by the scruff of the neck and say, 'You're coming with me!'"
This is one reason I prefer not to read introductions to books until AFTER I've read a book. I prefer to (as much as possible) engage a book on its own terms and not by the biases of the person who wrote the intro.
Another note: you have to believe in truth a capital "T" if you want to have an open mind and truly engage a book. When I was in the Online Great Book program (RIP) the owner emphasized that good faith dialogue can only occur if everyone agrees that there is A truth that can be known. I often think the reason dialog today devolves into shrill yelling is because many belief there is no truth to be known, just power.
I really like that. No Truth, just power.
Looking through these comments, it is scary to see so many people who think it wrong to look at "wrong" or challenging views. No one realizes the level of confirmation bias we have as a result of saying culturally, "If they're wrong about one thing, they're wrong about everything." without ever attempting to understand their view.
An open mind is the key to dialogue, which leads to real progress. No wonder everyone is so alienated. Can't find common ground if you put someone in a box.
Thanks, interesting video. Reminded me of my anthropology classes where we would try to do a close reading of a text to hear it from its own perspective. We didn't need to believe it, but we were trying to put our own views aside and see the internal consistency in a text. Sometimes I'll make a note if an author seems to be inconsistent or is making an unconscious assumption (unless it's a work of fiction that's just for fun). I don't mind demanding a bit of rigour in my authors. Anyhow, I agree that a reading technique like that gives you a chance to see the world in a different way, and that can be really interesting. Seeing the world in a different way can often be useful too.
I think this argument is interesting. It depends on the purpose you are reading. I find myself often reading to validate especially when I am doing research and finding supporting material for a project. However, reading to learn, understand, and be challenged is the most rewarding.
I agree with you that research is a good way to validate findings and that it should be done. I try to keep my mind open to the idea of being wrong but allowing the book to challenge you is a very good point. What do you research if you do not mind me asking?
Thanks for the video Rob. It's very important to put yourself in the shoes of the writer during the time. Which is sad because most people call Dickens outdated just because his "language" is different than ours. Same thing with science and philosophy. I think often times the old is more correct than the new.
Love and Peace.
The poet John Keats and his idea of 'Negative Capability' is very applicable here.
Thanks for sharing! I will have to look that one up. I have heard of Keats but not familiar with his works. Thanks for watching and stay blessed my friend!
Well, Rob-if we all had your attitude and perspective, we could actually engage in meaningful conversations with a much wider range of people over a much wider spectrum of topics!! What a thought… Thanks for your content, it’s a blessing!
Wow! Reality slap! Thanks I needed that.
No problem at all! I truly appreciate you watching. Stay blessed my friend!
Those were some great insights, Rob! Keep it up and always keep reading :)
Yes indeed! Thanks so much for watching my friend and stay blessed!
Rob, this was a great video. Much of what you have said reminds me of my time as a philosophy undergraduate. Some philosophers challenged me, and I was comfortable with being challenged. Of course, there were times when I read an author with my ego (Nietzsche and Murakami), but after revisiting them, I found myself enjoying the challenge. I am lucky to have parents who encouraged critical thinking when I was younger. Keep up the good work!
Very good video!!! In looking back. I have to agree. Especially since I have read a lot on WW2. I wanted to learn some of the how’s and why’s the war started. For nothing is ever is just black and white. Especially in history. One book called Stalin’s War. Can’t think of the author right now. It’s absolutely amazing and astonishing how much material we supplied them. One thing he tries to make you think. Is how Roosevelt, agreed to all of it . But I would argue one point. Stalin may have thought he got one on him. But at the same time, the war in the eastern front took most of Germany’s resources. It helped us in that it weakened them to help our invasion succeed. There is more to this . An this is a simplified answer. There is another book that deals with some of the decisions made that set the things in motion. But I agree with you .
That is a great analysis to consider. I have migrated away from the read to validate towards the read to discover over the years and it have been very rewarding.
Have a great Thanksgiving!!!!!
Will do brother! Hope you have a good one as well!
*Orphans of the Sky* by Robert Heinlein
*Voyage from Yesteryear* by James P Hogan
I will check both of these out! Thanks so much for sharing and stay blessed!
Great Tuesday Rob
Haha, yes it is! Thanks for watching brother! Stay blessed!
Yep, just yesterday. Working on what appears something fun entitled "Covert Cows" by Steve Robinson but didn't get past the words before (the foreword) when I found myself wanting a pink market for highlights and a chisel tip permanent black sharpie for my comments in the margin. 😅
I know, it's a library book but still...
"When I found something I disagree with or am challenged by" *zooms in on Beyond Good and Evil*
That'll do it lol
haha yes indeed. Just was working through his genealogy of morals and man.. I have to pause and really think about what all is being said. Such a unique thinker. Thanks for watching and stay blessed!
@The_Cause He really is. It is fun to read Kant's Critique of Practical Reaosn after, because they are almost complete opposites.
The German philosophers I haven’t explored to much. In 2025 I want to try and read some works on Kant and Hegel.
@@The_Cause The German philosophers are kind of my thing. That being said, I have yet to get around to Hegel as well. I hope to read him at some point in 2025. I have only recently gotten into ancient Greeks. I read the Republic forever ago, but then I worked my way to the Germans as fast as possible.
Excellent video!
I'm so glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for watching and stay blessed!
I hope you have a nice vacation. Be safe.
Thank you so much! I am looking forward to it for sure! Stay blessed my friend!
I would probably say something very similar as you in the video, although in different words.
I fully agree that us sitting on the judgement thrown because we are of course the most insightful people is a stupid thing to do. That applies both for us as individuals as well as us as a society. Because of that we should put ourselves into the cave again, like you said. Although this analogy implies that we are outside the cave while the people with other opinions are by definition inferior.
Once we actually understand it it is also important to leave that cave again and combine it with your previous knowledge. The good thing of understanding several position is that we can more closely understand those biases and blindspots that come with those individual positions.
I wish I were like this, but I only do it to a very limited degree. I dislike challenging my core believes and I dislike exploring a good number of views. Because I'm aware of that I apply those principles on those ideas which are tolerable and interesting to me. Thanks to that I can still gain those benefits, to a smaller degree.
How easy is it for you to honestly listening to opposing views?
I read a book at university by Robert Anton Wilson called Prometheus Rising and, in that book, he makes the point that you should expose yourself to something you vehemently disagree with. He gives the example of an Atheist reading an Evangelical Christian magazine. The point of the exercise is to read someone and appreciate that someone, somewhere as vehemently agrees with this narrative as you vehemently disagree. Everyone thinks they’re right; none of us are. Stay humble. But don’t be so open-minded that your brain falls out of your head…
Was recently reading True Believer by Eric Hoffer, thinking I would be validating my beliefs and found myself not agreeing with him several times throughout. Still a good read.
I’m currently having this struggle while reading Bunyan’s “Pilgrim’s Progress.” As a non-Christian who finds evangelism immoral, I find the books heavy handed moralism difficult to connect with emotionally.
But in its historical context -a persecuted puritan literally writing to a semi-literate audience in prison when novels themselves are only a few decades old-I find it interesting.
His story is pretty crazy! I can't wait to cover it when we get to it in the Harvard Classics. It was one of Ben Franklin's favorite books. As I have been reading through the classics I noticed an almost need to be versed in the scripture to truly get a good grasp of most of these works such as Paradise Lost and others. Did you find this to be the case as well?
Hey Rob! Loving this coffee break. Question: what was the last book to change your mind on something?
One that really made me look a little deeper was Grant by Ron Chernow. It’s long but it gave me a different perspective on Grant.
@ Interesting. It’s now on the biography list.
20 seconds ago? Here extra early. Favorite part of tuesday!
Haha yes indeed! Perfect timing! Thanks for watching and stay blessed my friend!
Thank you for this pithy video-talk! I'd like to know whether your concept of reading "not to validate, but to discover" applies not only to (ostensible) non-fiction, but also to fiction--whether or not said fiction has some "axe to grind."
We should always question what we read, but I don't think I go into books thinking, "this book will fit my beliefs." We are to study God's word and change ourselves to align with it, not the other way around. And when we read books or hear things that go against God's word we should absolutely argue with the book/or the author's point(s) of view. I especially have issues with men who write philosophy since it's the philosophy of men, not God. And God tells us to beware of that. (tickling ears and whatnot)
I absolutely am not "willing to absorb all perspectives" the "light of truth" is Jesus. This doesn't mean I won't read books I think/most likely will disagree with, but I compare man's word to God's Truth. You call it reaffirming my biases, I'm fine with that. It's how I have better discernment and how I'm able to pick apart man's writings.
Founding Mothers by Roberts was such a disappointing book. I have Mein Kampf on my tbr. I just finished reading a book where the author was extremely racist and it was very hard to read. I absolutely didn't pick it up to reaffirm my biases. One could say the Bible would reaffirm my biases, but because I have to conform to God, that isn't even true.
Most of my reading is to learn.
Enjoy your vacation.
Very good points and thanks so much for sharing! I guess this video was more for my own issues. A point from the Bible is the Pharisees taking the words so literal and the ideas so concrete that they could not even listen to teachings of Christ. It was the religious that Jesus could not get to understand. A lesson there for me is I do not want to be so caught up my truth that I miss his truth. In the past I would be a Pharisee saying I know better. But I don’t. Thanks so much for watching and sharing and stay blessed my friend!
@@The_Cause The main problem with the Pharisees was their adding to God's word. I know what you mean. nodding head. I was recently asked what my denomination was because I called out a fictional book as having witchcraft in it. I know this because of my upbringing POV. But when I told the young man I don't have a denomination because there aren't any in the Bible. I don't believe in the "nondenominational" churches either. Ah! Now I understand where you're coming from. I was worried.
I understand about not getting stuck in the trap of being a know it all. We are to be salty though and some people will be convicted and say you're (or is it just me?) judging. Which is another thing a lot of people get wrong by confusing judging character or sins, by trying to sharpen brethren, but not condemning. But that's a whole other topic.
I'm so glad you explained this to me. Thank you.
Many blessings to you and your family.
I don’t agree. I read to grow, for self improvement and to expand my mind. I don’t need to spend time reading racist, defunct political theories or other anti social manifestos. Life is too short.
What you have just said is you never want to be open to hearing someone else's opinion if you think they're wrong about anything.
Very good video!!! In looking back. I have to agree. Especially since I have read a lot on WW2. I wanted to learn some of the how’s and why’s the war started. For nothing is ever is just black and white. Especially in history. One book called Stalin’s War. Can’t think of the author right now. It’s absolutely amazing and astonishing how much material we supplied them. One thing he tries to make you think. Is how Roosevelt, agreed to all of it . But I would argue one point. Stalin may have thought he got one on him. But at the same time, the war in the eastern front took most of Germany’s resources. It helped us in that it weakened them to help our invasion succeed. There is more to this . An this is a simplified answer. There is another book that deals with some of the decisions made that set the things in motion. But I agree with you .
Wow that is great information. I will have to check out that book! WW2 is an insane time when you start looking at it form all the different angles. The science, the philosophy, the production and economies during that time were changing so fast. That was the period who went from horse and buggy to 40-50 years later nuclear weapons. I want to learn more about the Russian side of the conflict as you mentioned. Love this comment. Thanks for watching and stay blessed my friend!
Another good book. Fateful Choices. Ten Decisions That Changed The World 1940-1941 by Ian Kershaw
You might not realize this. But historians, instead of WW 1, and WW2. They call the period from 1914-1945 The World Wars. For how WW1 ended and the treaty. Set in motion in a way WW2