“You know, it's funny. When you look at someone through rose-colored glasses, all the red flags just look like flags." One of my favorite quotes in the entire show
@@thundy9124 a red flag in a relationship is something that signals danger/ a sign that the relationship is toxic or wont work out, looking at someone "through rose colored glasses" means you're looking at them in a overly optimistic/unrealistic way, since rose colored glasses would tint everything you see in a red/pink tone, if you were to look at a red flag through them, you wouldn't be able to tell it was red
i think it's totally fine for u guys to be against Diane here, she's definitely meant to be in the wrong and we're meant to be upset with her! she's definitely a character that has a lot of ups and downs, she's very complex, but that's why i really enjoy her as a character
Diane is in the wrong, but being upset with her is very close minded, like bojack she's going through a lot and she's in a dark place in her life, she has flaws but it doesn't make her a bad person it makes her human
I think Diane is hugely in the wrong here but a lot of fans take that residual frustration with her and fail to let it go, so other fans will over correct. Diane and Bojack and projecting and running from their mistakes without any regard to the collateral damage they cause their partners and their friends.
@@404schmoozernotfound diane deffinitely cares about mr. PB, and you can't say she has no regard to the demage she makes, she's just too traumitized and doesn't want to face reality, i think a lot of people who are struggling with depression can relate to that need to escape reality
I think it's not just that Diane feels embarrassed or upset because she was wrong about what she wanted - she's also pretty clearly depressed. She keeps trying to look at her life as an outsider, and when she does that she sees that she's published books, she's succeeding in the industry she wanted to succeed in, she's married to a great guy who is genuinely crazy about her and who she really loves and whose company she enjoys.. and then she slips back 'inside' and sees that, all that notwithstanding, she still feels like shit. She's asking herself constantly 'what is wrong with me?' and not being able to find any good answer, or any way to find an answer. It can't always be just as simple as having to suck it up, grow up, etc. Your frustration with her is totally fine though! Even while all of that's true, she's definitely being a piece of shit in some ways. It's one of the reasons she works so well - in season 1 especially, you think she's going to be the normal, good, functional person to counterpoint Bojack's fucked-upness, but then the longer you watch her the more you realise she's all fucked up too.
She’s also implied to be traumatized from her experience in Cordovia. Feelings of shame and isolating oneself from loved ones are both symptoms of trauma. You feel simultaneously like it’s your fault and you’re broken, and like no one else could understand.
This episode is one of Dianes low points. Shes depressed and doesnt have her life in check. Its good to hold Diane responsible, and you are not supposed to side with her. But i can still emphatize with her situation.
sometimes Diane is in the wrong, sometimes she's in the right. she's such a complex character (even more so later on), and part of what makes the show so good. and I don't think you guys are being mean with your thoughts on Diane, some people like her, some people don't. I will say that looking at the show as a whole I do end up seeing her in a more positive light than a negative one
Way after the fact, but one of the things I've realized, after watching the show many times... all the characters are awful in various ways. Except Todd. Yay Todd!
I think Diane gets a lot of hate because she's so judgmental about the actions of other characters, but then she turns around and behaves in horrible ways herself, so she's a hypocrite on top of her other bad behaviors. She's a great character though, I view her as a foil for BoJack because they are so similar in a lot of ways. They represent two ways to move on (or not) after low points in your life.
I don't agree with the hypocrite part. Diane is even more judgemental with herself than she is with others. But being judgmental doesn't stop her from spiraling out of control.
@@sorkaem maybe hypocrite is too harsh a word. she displays hypocritical behavior sometimes. but, without spoiling anything in these comments, by the end of the series I really liked the character and was really proud of her growth
Diane is 100% a judgmental hypocrite. My main problem with her character is that she feels like a trojan horse. Everyone knows that Bojack is a jerk and we accept it. Diane is just as much of a jerk, but people give her a pass because she plays the victim and acts noble.
@@Oneryeone I agree 100%. Diane has definitely behaved like an asshole at many points in the series, but her actions have never led to life threatening, traumatic experiences the way bojack's have.
Everybody else: It's fine to have opinions on Diane being shitty in this episode, this is a low point for her, here are reasons for why. Me: Oh shit, we're finally in New Mexico... Can't wait for the next couple of episodes. Then I guess I gotta watch season 4 to stay ahead of you two. :P ...And listening to you guys talking about what you think is going to happen with her. Oh man. I really can't wait now. It's so crazy how that all shakes out. Also, Diane lying to Mr. Peanutbutter isn't because she's worried he'll be mad at her or that it'll ruin their relationship that she came back early. She's putting off coming back because once she's back home at her house with her husband, it will solidify in her own mind that she failed to be the serious hardcore writer that she wanted to be. What she's doing now is a defense mechanism to put off an admission to herself that she, in her own mind, is a failure because she couldn't handle what was an insanely difficult project that she gave herself to do. It is selfish and destructive and bad, but it's a reaction to a deep shame she feels that she ultimately shouldn't, and might not even be aware that she shouldn't.
This show was designed to be binged by the season. But I also think the show was designed to be re-watched in between the seasons. Show usually had a year plus in between the seasons and most fans would just rewatch the show to fill up the time, and the show really rewards the people who do that. You really pick up on a lot of things from visual jokes in the background to details that really further the understanding of the characters. So if any of you are reading the comments like yous said, it might be good to rewatch pass episodes on your own time. Thats what I thought about when you guys forgot that Charolette was dating Herb Kazza who was Bojacks gay friend and writer who fought him before he died of butt cancer. It is important to remember that charlotte was dating bojacks best friend for a time, but it was a friend who was gay so the relation ship never got series. Then one of the last lines she said to Bojack was "Do you ever wonder if I had met you before Herb did, would you have made a move on me? I don't think you would, you know why? I think you are a coward." That convo kind frames the next episode
This episode made me realize how Diane and Bojack are the best friends-relationship in the show to me because we don't see one like that often in shows. This duo has an interesting dynamic cause they both are dealing with the same problems (on a different level obviously) so none of them can help the other but they find confort in each other while clearly not helping each other. It's like addiction, by taking your whatever-substance, you're conforting yourself but you're bringing yourself down too.
One of the things I enjoy also admire about Bojack-horseman is how all of the characters besides Bojack himself obviously, but that all of the main cast of characters are equally complex but also are very deeply flawed individuals. They feel so much like real actually people who aren't perfect and got both realatble good & bad traits/aspects about them which we ourselves might not care for... because there's are certain things about ourselves that we probably don't like or don't want to be reminded or admit to ourselves of those bad traits within us. I love how this adult cartoon show set in a wacky world full of anthro animals people manage to feel and be so human with its themes alongside with its lessons on the crappiest parts of life.
Diane didn't want to disappoint Mr Peanutbutter because he was really proud of her. She initially wanted to go home but when he told her how proud he was, she decided to lie not to disappoint him.
I'm totally happy with how you are viewing Diane. I love her as a character, but because i get her mentality. I was in some shit places with myself years ago and you make all kind of stupid, petty choices searching for an "easy" road to not face your issues. You are being understanding enough And yes, Bojack is trying to escape his own toxcity basically. Those two can be a horrible combinaton
love your guys' reaction and especially your post reaction discussion ! IMO for a show like this it definitely worth processing these thoughts and talking about it with someone who's very understanding as well !
Staying with a male isn't meant to be the issue because it really isn't one. My best friend is my female roommate from college. I couldn't afford my own apartment and she was renting hers out for the same reason. After 5 years we are still eachothers best friend. Better than her girl friends and my guy friends. After the third year we tried to be more than friends but we mutually felt that we are better as just friends. We definitely had benefits in college but after she found someone that stopped of course. If she ever needs a place to crash my door is always open and I know she's the same because I've crashed there before when I was in a rough place mentally. If you're in a relationship where your partner doesn't like you having opposite gender friends then that ain't a good relationship.
Diane has her great and terrible moments but at the end of the day she's a good person who sometimes looses to life. It doesn't help that Diane and Bojack bring the worst in each other...
One thing I've always appreciated about this show is the ability to make characters that are relatable, while not being likable at times. This can be really hard when you see something in a character that you dislike, but still find something in common on a deep level that is not always comfortable to think about. Don't forget to love each other.
Wait did anyone catch the parallel they made with Diane talking about what she wanted Mr. Peanutbutter said to her when in SPOILERS in the view from halfway down that what’s Bojack was saying at the end right before the episode ends when he’s on the phone with Diane.
Diane was having an identity crisis here. She said it herself, she wasn't the good person she thought she was. That would definitely affect her negatively.
Diane said it best, "I don't think there is a deep down - All you are is the things that you do." I think that Diane does a lot of crappy things in this show and I'm not willing to ignore her behavior.
@@Aldridge517 Everyone in the show does crappy things. The show is not telling you to ignore their bad behaviour or crimes but rather to give context to it. The worst in the show is definitely Bojack just because he literally almost murdered someone and kill Sarah Lynn indirectly. Bojack and Dianne are almost the shame. They came from fucked up family and was abused. The difference is Diane doesn't blame anyone else for her failures, he blames herself. Unlike Bojack he literally blames others. "My life was ruined by a network executive" no, he ruined his own life. He had a choice. Help a friend or abandoned him. He didn't even need to abandoned Herb but he chose to do so.
Not gonna go into any of the huge points but will point out that St Cloud (the snow leopard diane was suppose to be writing about) was actually doing positive work in those horrible areas of the world. Yes he was an egotistical dick but the outcome of his actions were positive.
It’s perfectly fine to criticize Diane and call her out on her bad behavior. She does plenty of shitty, inconsiderate, selfish things. She’s similar to Bojack in many ways, which is why their depression tends to feed off of each other. The problem is that she receives an inordinate amount of hatred. People actually *despise* her, and they use her as a lightning rod to direct all their anger at. They'll place all the blame on her for her failed marriage and her toxic friendship with Bojack, even going as far as to say she’s a worse person than he is. They write her off as nothing more than an “annoying liberal snowflake” whose only purpose is to look down on everyone from atop her soapbox (which is a ridiculously simplified and misguided reading of her character). She’s not as fun or as goofy as Bojack or Mr. Peanutbutter, so people are less willing to sympathize with her or see the good in her. It’s frustrating because to me, she’s the most relatable character on the show. I connect with her struggles the most. I think a lot of viewers assumed she was going to be the only stable, responsible person in a world of craziness, and she failed to live up to that expectation. But that’s the point.
I love the analysis you two do for this show but I can't help but laugh during any serious conversation where someone can casually refer to "Mr Peanut Butter"
I think a big thing with Diane is that her negative tendencies mimick bojack. She gets there differently but her habits are the same and their attitudes are just too similar. So when she gets toxic bojack basically multiplies it. It's why it was so easy for her to get bojack to neglect his work. The worry is that she's atleast like 15 years younger than bojack so she has the potential to solve this early. Or follow the same paths. Now she's still wrong. But man it's so well written. She's being a shitty friend this season when it was bojack last season.
1) I think you guys are doing a great job with this. You're laughing at all the stupid little gags but at the end of each episode it's clear you guys have taken in a lot of the depth and gravitas of the situations that are being presented and you understand how very fucked up a lot of this is. 2) We all need to keep in mind that we're being shown the worst and most private moments of these people. They have some great moments, some funny moments, some sad and some angering. And yeah, these people are definitely (hopefully) worse people than you or I...but are they? If everyone could watch all of our private fights, our struggles, our conversations...how many times have each of us been hypocrites, or liars, or done the wrong thing, or been prideful, or turned our backs on someone? No one person is a monolith of goodness, no one person is without fault, and in a way I think watching this show can be cathartic because over the course of all the seasons you learn to see these characters as 3-dimensional people (ironic since they're cartoons) and because of that you see their good and their bad and they become reflections of the faults in our own hearts. Keep it up, you're doing awesome.
It's interesting hearing their perspective on Diane, and they're completely right, I understand their point of view. Going into the show, I always liked Diane, and I never really criticized her too hard, I always understood her pov to an extent, Mr. Peanutbutter as the one who got on my nerves, and they don't go hard enough on him imo
wait i never read many comments but do they get hate for giving their opinion? i actually love hearing thoughts from different perspectives even if i dont always agree
Your reaction to Diane’s actions in this episode are completely understandable. I think that Diane’s problem is that she’s depressed. She can’t seem to be happy no matter what she does or where she goes. But the way she’s handling it is completely wrong. Regardless I can’t help but sympathize with her even if her actions are wrong
bojack is a piece of short,and he's self awared about that. But diane loves to criticize everything bojack did wrong, while herself hurts his feelings a lot of time : the leaking of memoir ,changing script on philber. I feel like diane doesn't have to be this mean to bojack, and she's clearly afraid of being the same as bojack, while in reality she's not better than him.
Lol what. She’s still better than him by the end of it. She’s a person with her own problems and flaws but she’s still a better person than him in general.
I think diane would love to go home and i don't think she wants to lie to PB. I think she just can't face herself, she can't face the fact that she made a big deal about going to work with that guy, and how it would make her happy and she did it and it didn't make her happy. I think it's more frustrating cause she's been positioned up until this point as the voice of reason. And now that she's having her own crisis and being shown to not have things together and to be capable of hurting people like BJ, it's dissapointing.
"My life was ruined by a network executive like you" POTENTIAL SPOILERS That's a lie. Bojack ruined his own life. The network executive gave him a clear choice and that executive didn't really have the power to do so. Most importantly, he wasn't forced to abandoned a dear friend (Herb) who helped him succeed in his career. Herb infact accepted that Bojack may not leave the show but he surely didn't expect him to abandoned him. That's why he couldn't forgive Bojack. Bojack is a perfect example of a toxic person. Angela said the words Bojack needed to here, "Grow Up"
yeah, all she did was call his bluff and he crumbled with no resistance. He keeps looking for the one thing that's made him turn out this way when he's unfortunately just the sum of these unfortunate events. Instead of accepting he's like this and trying to change he instead looks back to have a target to blame his failures on. Whether it's Mr.Peanutbutter, his parents, the fame, or the executives, it currently does change the fact that he's making the decisions now and it's sad to see him sink harder each season.
I think the excellence of this show is that every main character has different toxic traits; Bojack, Diane, Mr. Peanutbutter, Princess Carolyn. The only character who I can't think of a toxic trait for is Todd.
@@Aldridge517 Todd is toxic in his own way. His ignorance can cause serious damage, remember when he basically fucked up a country by aligning with a suspicious individual or how he almost killed his own mother. Compare to the others his one of the kind character. I would ranked them up as: 1. Diane = She always drive her moral compass and even decided to not help Bojack in the end because they were basically trying to lie about Sarah Lyn and his crimes. Bojack is important to him but being good and right is in her heart and in the end she is one of the happiest character since she was finally able to let go of Bojack. 2. Todd = Todd is just a goofball with a kind heart. He can do a lot of damage because of his stupidity thought. 3. Mr. Peanut butter = His main flaw is being too optimistic and failing to notice other people's emotion and this often hurt them. I mean, he had 3 divorces already and he admitted that he can't change because of his age. In the end thought, he actually grew a lot. His not rushing to a relationship and is actually taking time by himself. 4. Princess Caroline = she's my favourite character in the series but the reasons she's second to last is that she often only cares about results and not how to do it. She's so driven that she can do anything to accomplish her goal. He even planned to fake a pregnancy of a celebrity and tried to cover up Bojacks mess too. She did grew too and the first step was finally accepting her daughter and it's responsibility and letting go of Bojack. 5. Bojack = his definitely the worst main character in the show morally speaking. Worst character in the show for me is Beatrice's dad. He did so much bad things that I can't really feel sorry for him anymore. I love that his trying to change but he always blame his mistakes on something or someone else. He did grew a lot in the series end thought but I'm pretty sure he'll relapse and just do everything all over again. Among the 5 cast his the only one who will most likely release to their old ways. But this is just my thoughts.
@GraffitiTurtle I personally think that is a cop out. I definitely think there are good and bad people based on their consistent good and bad choices when it comes to others. This however doesn't mean a bad person cant become good or vice versa though.
@GraffitiTurtle I mean if your a moral relativist sure but that means you can always lie your way into making any bad thing youve done justifyable from a certain point of view. People do this so they can be a piece of shit while feeling like they are still good somehow even though thats not how it works. I tend to agree mostly with diane when she said that there is no deep down, you are just all the actions you do.
@GraffitiTurtle I get the empathy part, I usually do understand it and how hard it can be but at the end of the day its still an excuse, period. You dont get out of responsibility just because its hard.
@GraffitiTurtle Been there done that on both accounts. And there definitely is good/bad people because Im one of the good encountering a ton of bad its hard being one of the good ones in a world full of people who make excuses for their shit behavior, things can be hard to do but when it comes at an important cost of another there is no excuse a majority of the time. Consistent behavior is what determines this, doesn't mean a person cant make an honest mistake, the difference is a bad person will be a coward running away/manipulating and a good person will do whatever they can to make things right for the right reasons as well. You could call a lot of people, medium if you wanted but I think its a waste of time since a good act doesn't make a bad one disappear (and bad acts tend to carry more weight/cause more suffering vs the good making things better since sadly they arent equal).
“You know, it's funny. When you look at someone through rose-colored glasses, all the red flags just look like flags."
One of my favorite quotes in the entire show
Honestly, it's one of the quotes that stuck with me since I first heard it.
Mine is Free Churro
I still don't know what it is supposed to mean
lmao mine was “slap my salami that guy’s a commie”
@@thundy9124 a red flag in a relationship is something that signals danger/ a sign that the relationship is toxic or wont work out, looking at someone "through rose colored glasses" means you're looking at them in a overly optimistic/unrealistic way, since rose colored glasses would tint everything you see in a red/pink tone, if you were to look at a red flag through them, you wouldn't be able to tell it was red
damn so this was the turning point, imagine if bojack went to Todd’s play or Wanda’s house and not Charlotte.
i think it's totally fine for u guys to be against Diane here, she's definitely meant to be in the wrong and we're meant to be upset with her! she's definitely a character that has a lot of ups and downs, she's very complex, but that's why i really enjoy her as a character
In this show is really ok to be angry about every single character, the sad thing is that they say Diane is a bad character
Diane is in the wrong, but being upset with her is very close minded, like bojack she's going through a lot and she's in a dark place in her life, she has flaws but it doesn't make her a bad person it makes her human
I think Diane is hugely in the wrong here but a lot of fans take that residual frustration with her and fail to let it go, so other fans will over correct. Diane and Bojack and projecting and running from their mistakes without any regard to the collateral damage they cause their partners and their friends.
@@404schmoozernotfound diane deffinitely cares about mr. PB, and you can't say she has no regard to the demage she makes, she's just too traumitized and doesn't want to face reality, i think a lot of people who are struggling with depression can relate to that need to escape reality
I think it's not just that Diane feels embarrassed or upset because she was wrong about what she wanted - she's also pretty clearly depressed. She keeps trying to look at her life as an outsider, and when she does that she sees that she's published books, she's succeeding in the industry she wanted to succeed in, she's married to a great guy who is genuinely crazy about her and who she really loves and whose company she enjoys.. and then she slips back 'inside' and sees that, all that notwithstanding, she still feels like shit. She's asking herself constantly 'what is wrong with me?' and not being able to find any good answer, or any way to find an answer. It can't always be just as simple as having to suck it up, grow up, etc.
Your frustration with her is totally fine though! Even while all of that's true, she's definitely being a piece of shit in some ways. It's one of the reasons she works so well - in season 1 especially, you think she's going to be the normal, good, functional person to counterpoint Bojack's fucked-upness, but then the longer you watch her the more you realise she's all fucked up too.
She’s also implied to be traumatized from her experience in Cordovia. Feelings of shame and isolating oneself from loved ones are both symptoms of trauma. You feel simultaneously like it’s your fault and you’re broken, and like no one else could understand.
One more episode until escape from LA
IT IS TODAY
I can't wait
This episode is one of Dianes low points. Shes depressed and doesnt have her life in check. Its good to hold Diane responsible, and you are not supposed to side with her. But i can still emphatize with her situation.
*empathize. Diane is the one emphasizing her own situation
sometimes Diane is in the wrong, sometimes she's in the right. she's such a complex character (even more so later on), and part of what makes the show so good.
and I don't think you guys are being mean with your thoughts on Diane, some people like her, some people don't. I will say that looking at the show as a whole I do end up seeing her in a more positive light than a negative one
Way after the fact, but one of the things I've realized, after watching the show many times... all the characters are awful in various ways.
Except Todd.
Yay Todd!
I think Diane gets a lot of hate because she's so judgmental about the actions of other characters, but then she turns around and behaves in horrible ways herself, so she's a hypocrite on top of her other bad behaviors. She's a great character though, I view her as a foil for BoJack because they are so similar in a lot of ways. They represent two ways to move on (or not) after low points in your life.
I don't agree with the hypocrite part. Diane is even more judgemental with herself than she is with others. But being judgmental doesn't stop her from spiraling out of control.
@@sorkaem maybe hypocrite is too harsh a word. she displays hypocritical behavior sometimes. but, without spoiling anything in these comments, by the end of the series I really liked the character and was really proud of her growth
Diane is 100% a judgmental hypocrite. My main problem with her character is that she feels like a trojan horse. Everyone knows that Bojack is a jerk and we accept it. Diane is just as much of a jerk, but people give her a pass because she plays the victim and acts noble.
@@Aldridge517 if you think Diane is just as much of a jerk as Bojack then you need to rewatch the show because it’s not even close.
@@Oneryeone I agree 100%. Diane has definitely behaved like an asshole at many points in the series, but her actions have never led to life threatening, traumatic experiences the way bojack's have.
When the end scene came up, I thought "Oh, THAT episode is coming up." Yeah, buckle up ladies, it's about to be a bumpy ride.
Everybody else: It's fine to have opinions on Diane being shitty in this episode, this is a low point for her, here are reasons for why.
Me: Oh shit, we're finally in New Mexico...
Can't wait for the next couple of episodes. Then I guess I gotta watch season 4 to stay ahead of you two. :P
...And listening to you guys talking about what you think is going to happen with her. Oh man. I really can't wait now. It's so crazy how that all shakes out.
Also, Diane lying to Mr. Peanutbutter isn't because she's worried he'll be mad at her or that it'll ruin their relationship that she came back early. She's putting off coming back because once she's back home at her house with her husband, it will solidify in her own mind that she failed to be the serious hardcore writer that she wanted to be. What she's doing now is a defense mechanism to put off an admission to herself that she, in her own mind, is a failure because she couldn't handle what was an insanely difficult project that she gave herself to do. It is selfish and destructive and bad, but it's a reaction to a deep shame she feels that she ultimately shouldn't, and might not even be aware that she shouldn't.
Very well said!
This show was designed to be binged by the season. But I also think the show was designed to be re-watched in between the seasons. Show usually had a year plus in between the seasons and most fans would just rewatch the show to fill up the time, and the show really rewards the people who do that. You really pick up on a lot of things from visual jokes in the background to details that really further the understanding of the characters.
So if any of you are reading the comments like yous said, it might be good to rewatch pass episodes on your own time.
Thats what I thought about when you guys forgot that Charolette was dating Herb Kazza who was Bojacks gay friend and writer who fought him before he died of butt cancer. It is important to remember that charlotte was dating bojacks best friend for a time, but it was a friend who was gay so the relation ship never got series. Then one of the last lines she said to Bojack was "Do you ever wonder if I had met you before Herb did, would you have made a move on me? I don't think you would, you know why? I think you are a coward." That convo kind frames the next episode
BoJack and Diane bring out the worst in each other
That's why they are clearly not meant to be together as a couple.
This episode made me realize how Diane and Bojack are the best friends-relationship in the show to me because we don't see one like that often in shows. This duo has an interesting dynamic cause they both are dealing with the same problems (on a different level obviously) so none of them can help the other but they find confort in each other while clearly not helping each other. It's like addiction, by taking your whatever-substance, you're conforting yourself but you're bringing yourself down too.
"We were all drowning, and we had no idea of how to save eachother, but there was an understanding that we were all drowinig together."
One of the things I enjoy also admire about Bojack-horseman is how all of the characters besides Bojack himself obviously, but that all of the main cast of characters are equally complex but also are very deeply flawed individuals. They feel so much like real actually people who aren't perfect and got both realatble good & bad traits/aspects about them which we ourselves might not care for... because there's are certain things about ourselves that we probably don't like or don't want to be reminded or admit to ourselves of those bad traits within us. I love how this adult cartoon show set in a wacky world full of anthro animals people manage to feel and be so human with its themes alongside with its lessons on the crappiest parts of life.
“This is a sad one”
oh boy. just wait.
"How was your day?". Oof that line still gets me at the end of this series.
I like how the voice actor of Todd also plays Jesse in breaking bad
Diane didn't want to disappoint Mr Peanutbutter because he was really proud of her. She initially wanted to go home but when he told her how proud he was, she decided to lie not to disappoint him.
I'm totally happy with how you are viewing Diane. I love her as a character, but because i get her mentality. I was in some shit places with myself years ago and you make all kind of stupid, petty choices searching for an "easy" road to not face your issues. You are being understanding enough
And yes, Bojack is trying to escape his own toxcity basically. Those two can be a horrible combinaton
love your guys' reaction and especially your post reaction discussion ! IMO for a show like this it definitely worth processing these thoughts and talking about it with someone who's very understanding as well !
Diane, by the end of the show, is my favourite character. Her arc is satisfying.
Most complicated character from the show.
Staying with a male isn't meant to be the issue because it really isn't one. My best friend is my female roommate from college. I couldn't afford my own apartment and she was renting hers out for the same reason. After 5 years we are still eachothers best friend. Better than her girl friends and my guy friends. After the third year we tried to be more than friends but we mutually felt that we are better as just friends. We definitely had benefits in college but after she found someone that stopped of course. If she ever needs a place to crash my door is always open and I know she's the same because I've crashed there before when I was in a rough place mentally. If you're in a relationship where your partner doesn't like you having opposite gender friends then that ain't a good relationship.
True
When Kevin Morby starts playing at the end, it hurts
great song!
Diane has her great and terrible moments but at the end of the day she's a good person who sometimes looses to life. It doesn't help that Diane and Bojack bring the worst in each other...
One thing I've always appreciated about this show is the ability to make characters that are relatable, while not being likable at times. This can be really hard when you see something in a character that you dislike, but still find something in common on a deep level that is not always comfortable to think about.
Don't forget to love each other.
Wait did anyone catch the parallel they made with Diane talking about what she wanted Mr. Peanutbutter said to her when in SPOILERS
in the view from halfway down that what’s Bojack was saying at the end right before the episode ends when he’s on the phone with Diane.
I think everyone caught that because it was literally the point...
I did not catch that the first time through. Good point. X is super fun at parties
Yeah, next ep. might be THE most important episode of the entire series.
Season 3 would disagree. S3 Ep11 is the most important.
@@tari8134 disagree, all of season 6 is the most important
Nah, the one with a churro.
season 4 actually hits the nail straight on the head
Free Churro and View from halfway down are way more important
Diane was having an identity crisis here. She said it herself, she wasn't the good person she thought she was. That would definitely affect her negatively.
Diane said it best, "I don't think there is a deep down - All you are is the things that you do." I think that Diane does a lot of crappy things in this show and I'm not willing to ignore her behavior.
@@Aldridge517 Everyone in the show does crappy things. The show is not telling you to ignore their bad behaviour or crimes but rather to give context to it. The worst in the show is definitely Bojack just because he literally almost murdered someone and kill Sarah Lynn indirectly.
Bojack and Dianne are almost the shame. They came from fucked up family and was abused. The difference is Diane doesn't blame anyone else for her failures, he blames herself. Unlike Bojack he literally blames others. "My life was ruined by a network executive" no, he ruined his own life. He had a choice. Help a friend or abandoned him. He didn't even need to abandoned Herb but he chose to do so.
Not gonna go into any of the huge points but will point out that St Cloud (the snow leopard diane was suppose to be writing about) was actually doing positive work in those horrible areas of the world. Yes he was an egotistical dick but the outcome of his actions were positive.
It’s perfectly fine to criticize Diane and call her out on her bad behavior. She does plenty of shitty, inconsiderate, selfish things. She’s similar to Bojack in many ways, which is why their depression tends to feed off of each other.
The problem is that she receives an inordinate amount of hatred. People actually *despise* her, and they use her as a lightning rod to direct all their anger at. They'll place all the blame on her for her failed marriage and her toxic friendship with Bojack, even going as far as to say she’s a worse person than he is. They write her off as nothing more than an “annoying liberal snowflake” whose only purpose is to look down on everyone from atop her soapbox (which is a ridiculously simplified and misguided reading of her character). She’s not as fun or as goofy as Bojack or Mr. Peanutbutter, so people are less willing to sympathize with her or see the good in her.
It’s frustrating because to me, she’s the most relatable character on the show. I connect with her struggles the most. I think a lot of viewers assumed she was going to be the only stable, responsible person in a world of craziness, and she failed to live up to that expectation. But that’s the point.
The way you guys paused when you read “escape from LA” oh boy , oh boy is all I can say
Foreshadowing at its finest
My god girls, if you think things get dark/depressing in season 2. Just wait for season 3-4
I love the analysis you two do for this show but I can't help but laugh during any serious conversation where someone can casually refer to "Mr Peanut Butter"
Episode 11s always hit different. Where my penultimate hype gang at?
I love hearing you guys gossip about your friend bojack
I think a big thing with Diane is that her negative tendencies mimick bojack. She gets there differently but her habits are the same and their attitudes are just too similar. So when she gets toxic bojack basically multiplies it. It's why it was so easy for her to get bojack to neglect his work. The worry is that she's atleast like 15 years younger than bojack so she has the potential to solve this early. Or follow the same paths. Now she's still wrong. But man it's so well written. She's being a shitty friend this season when it was bojack last season.
1) I think you guys are doing a great job with this. You're laughing at all the stupid little gags but at the end of each episode it's clear you guys have taken in a lot of the depth and gravitas of the situations that are being presented and you understand how very fucked up a lot of this is.
2) We all need to keep in mind that we're being shown the worst and most private moments of these people. They have some great moments, some funny moments, some sad and some angering. And yeah, these people are definitely (hopefully) worse people than you or I...but are they? If everyone could watch all of our private fights, our struggles, our conversations...how many times have each of us been hypocrites, or liars, or done the wrong thing, or been prideful, or turned our backs on someone? No one person is a monolith of goodness, no one person is without fault, and in a way I think watching this show can be cathartic because over the course of all the seasons you learn to see these characters as 3-dimensional people (ironic since they're cartoons) and because of that you see their good and their bad and they become reflections of the faults in our own hearts.
Keep it up, you're doing awesome.
The red flags episode
Ps remember these lines
“He would call me and ask me how my day was and I would say “it was good””
They won’t came back for a while but remember them
It seems like they are shocked that Diane is not the usual voice of reason straight man woman.
Honestly I think that's why ppl see what Diane does in such an amplified way
I wish more reactions to Bojack a week
Ah yes, next episode is THE Episode
This is the turning point
It's interesting hearing their perspective on Diane, and they're completely right, I understand their point of view. Going into the show, I always liked Diane, and I never really criticized her too hard, I always understood her pov to an extent, Mr. Peanutbutter as the one who got on my nerves, and they don't go hard enough on him imo
I just need this reactions.
i mean i get their bender if you never been on it. Its not right but i get it
Love Abbis braids
I want next week's episode
You should do archer
Diane is being the narcissist toxic friend right now, some people will drag you into their shit, it's your job to say no though, even if it's hard
next episode is gonna hurt your soul, so... just get ready
Eeeeep Escape from LA is next
wait i never read many comments but do they get hate for giving their opinion? i actually love hearing thoughts from different perspectives even if i dont always agree
Cant wait for next week
I'm not sure why you haven't yet but you should definitely give danmachi a watch
Your reaction to Diane’s actions in this episode are completely understandable. I think that Diane’s problem is that she’s depressed. She can’t seem to be happy no matter what she does or where she goes. But the way she’s handling it is completely wrong. Regardless I can’t help but sympathize with her even if her actions are wrong
bojack is a piece of short,and he's self awared about that.
But diane loves to criticize everything bojack did wrong, while herself hurts his feelings a lot of time :
the leaking of memoir ,changing script on philber. I feel like diane doesn't have to be this mean to bojack, and she's clearly afraid of being the same as bojack, while in reality she's not better than him.
Lol what. She’s still better than him by the end of it. She’s a person with her own problems and flaws but she’s still a better person than him in general.
Diane is a well made and realistic character. But that doesnt mean she is likeable in the slightest
I agree. Diane is a well written character that I would never want to be friends with irl. Let alone being in a relationship with her.
I was just wondering if you guys are going to continue better call Saul?😊
Next few episodes are a whopper!!
uh oh
I think diane would love to go home and i don't think she wants to lie to PB. I think she just can't face herself, she can't face the fact that she made a big deal about going to work with that guy, and how it would make her happy and she did it and it didn't make her happy. I think it's more frustrating cause she's been positioned up until this point as the voice of reason. And now that she's having her own crisis and being shown to not have things together and to be capable of hurting people like BJ, it's dissapointing.
REACT TO GOLDEN KAMUY!!!!! Love your vids girls, keep'em coming
Shut up
I've defended Diane before, but I can't on this one.
"My life was ruined by a network executive like you"
POTENTIAL SPOILERS
That's a lie. Bojack ruined his own life. The network executive gave him a clear choice and that executive didn't really have the power to do so.
Most importantly, he wasn't forced to abandoned a dear friend (Herb) who helped him succeed in his career. Herb infact accepted that Bojack may not leave the show but he surely didn't expect him to abandoned him. That's why he couldn't forgive Bojack.
Bojack is a perfect example of a toxic person.
Angela said the words Bojack needed to here, "Grow Up"
yeah, all she did was call his bluff and he crumbled with no resistance. He keeps looking for the one thing that's made him turn out this way when he's unfortunately just the sum of these unfortunate events. Instead of accepting he's like this and trying to change he instead looks back to have a target to blame his failures on. Whether it's Mr.Peanutbutter, his parents, the fame, or the executives, it currently does change the fact that he's making the decisions now and it's sad to see him sink harder each season.
I think the excellence of this show is that every main character has different toxic traits; Bojack, Diane, Mr. Peanutbutter, Princess Carolyn. The only character who I can't think of a toxic trait for is Todd.
@@Aldridge517 Todd is toxic in his own way. His ignorance can cause serious damage, remember when he basically fucked up a country by aligning with a suspicious individual or how he almost killed his own mother.
Compare to the others his one of the kind character.
I would ranked them up as:
1. Diane = She always drive her moral compass and even decided to not help Bojack in the end because they were basically trying to lie about Sarah Lyn and his crimes. Bojack is important to him but being good and right is in her heart and in the end she is one of the happiest character since she was finally able to let go of Bojack.
2. Todd = Todd is just a goofball with a kind heart. He can do a lot of damage because of his stupidity thought.
3. Mr. Peanut butter = His main flaw is being too optimistic and failing to notice other people's emotion and this often hurt them. I mean, he had 3 divorces already and he admitted that he can't change because of his age. In the end thought, he actually grew a lot. His not rushing to a relationship and is actually taking time by himself.
4. Princess Caroline = she's my favourite character in the series but the reasons she's second to last is that she often only cares about results and not how to do it. She's so driven that she can do anything to accomplish her goal. He even planned to fake a pregnancy of a celebrity and tried to cover up Bojacks mess too. She did grew too and the first step was finally accepting her daughter and it's responsibility and letting go of Bojack.
5. Bojack = his definitely the worst main character in the show morally speaking. Worst character in the show for me is Beatrice's dad. He did so much bad things that I can't really feel sorry for him anymore. I love that his trying to change but he always blame his mistakes on something or someone else. He did grew a lot in the series end thought but I'm pretty sure he'll relapse and just do everything all over again. Among the 5 cast his the only one who will most likely release to their old ways.
But this is just my thoughts.
Diane is a well written character but she is a bad person like bojack, you definitely are good with the callouts.
@GraffitiTurtle I personally think that is a cop out. I definitely think there are good and bad people based on their consistent good and bad choices when it comes to others. This however doesn't mean a bad person cant become good or vice versa though.
@GraffitiTurtle I mean if your a moral relativist sure but that means you can always lie your way into making any bad thing youve done justifyable from a certain point of view. People do this so they can be a piece of shit while feeling like they are still good somehow even though thats not how it works.
I tend to agree mostly with diane when she said that there is no deep down, you are just all the actions you do.
@GraffitiTurtle I get the empathy part, I usually do understand it and how hard it can be but at the end of the day its still an excuse, period. You dont get out of responsibility just because its hard.
@GraffitiTurtle Been there done that on both accounts. And there definitely is good/bad people because Im one of the good encountering a ton of bad its hard being one of the good ones in a world full of people who make excuses for their shit behavior, things can be hard to do but when it comes at an important cost of another there is no excuse a majority of the time. Consistent behavior is what determines this, doesn't mean a person cant make an honest mistake, the difference is a bad person will be a coward running away/manipulating and a good person will do whatever they can to make things right for the right reasons as well. You could call a lot of people, medium if you wanted but I think its a waste of time since a good act doesn't make a bad one disappear (and bad acts tend to carry more weight/cause more suffering vs the good making things better since sadly they arent equal).
React to the promised neverland