just one point of view really - the Octatrack is a very open-ended box and not easy to categorize, so it's difficult to say what would make sense going forward - is mostly a matter of taste and goals. My assumption is that the original concept for OT probably had rather modest goals in comparison to the feature greed I champion in this video, and the final featureset most likely far exceeded initial expectations
@@maxmarco I feel like you summed it up very well and some of these point, if "solved" would open up the machine for a lot of ppl that want to enjoy the OT. Like myself, and a whole lot more folks it seems like. Anyways, super intressting videos, really like the music your producing too, great work!
max marco That sums it up pretty well. It’s hard not to want it all with today’s tech and prices though, lol. I have an MPC Live that definitely competes on many levels and a Digitakt yet I’m still tempted to trade up. My main hesitation is that, also having a Squarp Pyramid for MIDI sequencing, I may get more out of the Analog Rytm, but I would like a more capable sample mangler than the Digi has, and I think the Octa far exceeds the Rytm there.. lol. Granted, I could have skipped the squarp and used the Live for sequencing everything else, but I don’t love it, while a big screen is nice, I end up wishing I had a mouse and keyboard and then realize I’m just using a limited DAW with a smaller screen, not going dawless. Maybe selling the live and digi in favor of the octa and rytm is my answer. The Live, on paper, is so lovable though..
I had no idea that several of the effects degrade the signal when dry, but this solved some of the mysterious audio quality issues I’ve noticed. Thanks!
Currently trying to save up some money and get a brand new OT Mk2. Things previously holding me back were the lack of polyphony and the fact that I have always found samples, or rather the process of sampling, uninspiring. But then I stopped thinking about the OT as a sampler in the traditional sense and realized it is an 8-track recorder, or rather 8 interlinked recorders, that you can mess around with. I also like the thought of recording stuff from my synths directly into the OT: no need to sit in front of a computer. Although I love Ableton Live and the flexibility of having a DAW and a bunch of plugins available, all that power also distracts me from actually CREATING things, because the possibilities are limitless and eventually I lose my vision into the ocean of choices. The OT encourages you to find a way to make it fit your needs - even though it is "authoritarian", as you put it. But I've grown to like that with the Rytm and the A4. I like limitations and trying to get around them - and hardware sets you hard limits.
Everything in this video is undeniably true, and yet watching it jsut makes me want to turn on my Octatrack and spend the rest of the evening messing with it.
Just over a minute in and i'm already writing this to thank you for saving me money! The way you explain ''if you have trouble visualising...'' yep, 100%. I wish more music tech reviews told it like you do here.
Oh, so much truth. The good thing, though, is that with growing experience, the manual becomes more and more useful. And hey, that's better than IKEA manuals which... never become useful. ^^
I have bought the mk2 and I learned from tutorials and was easy peasy lol. Really good for its price. What would u buy a pioneer mixer and link it via internet cables?
"If you have a poor working memory and experiencing difficulties visualising and internalising abstract networks of functionality...." yep that's me! Thanks for giving words to what holds me back from such devices
Greater complexity does not mean deeper functionality. The thing that kills me every time I use the OT is the complete inconsistency of the UI. The same functionality will require different key combos depending on what you are doing. It's not abstract, it's just poorly designed UI. You have to learn it brute force before any flow comes.
I like the Octatrack MK 2 much and it is for me the best music device so far. But I think it is time to design and produce an Octatrack 2 (actual to today’s Technology) and not reduced cheap Model S or low priced music boxes or a MK 3.
Have had mine for less than a month and enjoying it already. Its not nearly as hard as I thought it would be (lots of youtube videos help with the steep learning curve), but I've been using DAWs for 20 years and I have an MPC Live and I was going to get a cheap mk1 for live sets, but a cheap mk2 popped up, so I snatched that one cause of the 2 year warranty that came with it. As much as I like the OT, the points being made, are spot on. The MPC Live sounds better and that is not because of the FX and EQs and compressors and what not, I transferred the sample sample (16bit 44.1k) and played it back at the same peak level and the MPC Live just sounds better and I am talking blind test between me and my Mrs, both always selected the MPC DACs as the better sounding ones, in the blind test. And that is before we get to the OT effects which are decent...by 1998 standards. It is a digital box and its not transparent, at all. It has a sound...if you like that sound is up to you. Having said that, it is great to have on stage and its very easy to control and assign the basic stuff you'd use for a techno set, so unless it breaks on stage, I am happy. IF you want flexibility and are serious about finishing tracks, a DAW runs *circles* around the OT and MPC Live, combined. If you want a fun sampler to jam (I've been using samplers since the AKAI S1100) and mangle up stuff, without caring much about "hi-fi" sound, this is a good option.
You sort of laid you how the Octatrack is not a center-piece for purely making tracks, that is easier with a DAW indeed. After all IMO the Octatrack is relatively far off of being a DAW. It's could be viewed as the Ableton clip-view but lacks a lot of a DAW's immediate editability.
I’d say the Digitakt if you don’t mind it’s own limitations is a more direct and simpler approach to being a sample based instrument and sequencer than the Octatrack but it really comes down to what your expectations are and what you want to do. The whole DAW in a box title and desire of a lot of people seems out of place when considering Elektron as you should probably just go with some sort of tablet if that’s what you really want since the MPC Live is so expensive compared to a pc tablet that would give you a literal Daw in a box approach. And for that reason I’d say from my experience it’s best to explore your desired workflow as cheaply as possible and once you figure out what workflow approach is best for you dropping a grand or so on a so called ‘all in one’ machine can just be a headache and disappointment. So take your time, watch the big walk through video’s on what your considering before taking any major financial plunge as most times unless you happen to snag a piece at a killer price point you’ll just end up losing money in the process, though that is sometimes un-avoidable. When I was looking to get a higher quality sampler to move up to from a Volca Sample the Octatrack was to expensive for me and the Digitakt really looked like it would crush not just the volca but my beatstep pro. And it does! I prefer actual gear over software and I like touch screen apps at times but I really love having a dedicated piece of gear over that so having a hardware device is a part of my preferred method. It may not be yours and that’s up to you to decide what’s best for you at the end of the day is all that really matters. I usually have the most time to play oddly enough at my job. The Digitakt is smaller than the Octatrack so porting it with me is great. I’m a novice when it comes to composing my songs and I still haven’t even gotten to my imagined method of composing my ideas from my beatbox recordings to sample and slice them into the Digitakt. And replacing the sliced parts with samples but I know I can do it that way and it will be so awesome when I get my method into practice and get comfortable with the process. Yeah, the Octa and Digi have their gripes and weaknesses but there are plenty of options for consideration to those who can’t get past them. I’d say the Digitakt is a much cleaner and simpler machine so as to keep you from being so overwhelmed when it comes to the Octatrack’s menu system and additional options and approaches. For me the Digitakt is my favorite all in one instrument regardless of it’s flaws or limitations especially since I have yet to use it’s massive sequencing capabilities to create more IDM like compositions and I like that the only intimidating part to doing so is just my willingness to take the time to work over a track to do it rather than the ‘how to’ do it as it’s really flexible in the ‘how YOU want to do it’ freedom to approaching it by either live recording of parameter movements or per step micro editing to perfect your composition. I can chain the 16 sequences set at their max length and live record the whole thing one part at a time. If you can play more than one thing at a time you can do that too. So for me I don’t even create songs on a level that need 8 tracks let alone the 11 I can have at max using the midi tracks with my 3 synths so I’ll never run out of creative freedom even if or when I get my composing method mastered. There are plenty of newer and older options for anyone who prefers to do things differently than Elektron’s approach. But for me I love the thought provoking programming along with the clacky computer key style of the machine that it really helps me to go from my wild imagination to an organized and detail oriented approach that gives me a sense of transforming those IDM like chaotic ideas into an actual reality in a way that I obsessively enjoy losing myself in everytime. I still have a ways to go in getting comfortable with my method of approach but it’s so rewarding regardless of my snail like pace in getting to the greater depths of more full and complex compositions.
thanks for sharing your thoughts! the Digi line are excellent designs and popular for good reason, my impression is that they have been smash hits for the company and substantially outselling the older machines
Sold the Octatrack after 4 years of heavy use and lots and lots of learning. Got an Akai Force now and couldn’t be happier. Never missed the OT since.. don’t get me wrong - I love being limited to challenge my creativity but working mostly with field recordings I found the OT unnecessary complicated and distracting where as the Force is way more spontaneous and allows me to focus more on actually making music..
OT with better MIDI, better architecture (like a beefed up DT instead), and Overbridge capability, higher resolution of parameters, as well as native 24-bit would be amazing
I sold my version one before V2 was announced. My main reason was menu-diving and frustration with my own personal memory. I tend to shift around a lot on gear, and the OT requires constant use to maintain muscle memory and a good mental map of all the multiple button-press features.
100% legitimate arguments here. I wished the OT was more fluid. It is robotic, rigid and limiting. B U T ......the reason why I like the OT overall though is EXACTLY because of its limits. Reminds me of the early 1990s when I had a Fostex cassette 4-track recorder with a crappy Gemini 8-sec mixer sampler and an even shittier Alesis rack effects unit. How about ZERO visual reference - you had to put full trust in your auditory instincts. I had to make damn sure that all 4 tracks were optimized to creativity beyond mechanical capability and this has made me appreciate my beats from the 1990s even more. I had no sequencer, I had to tap in every drum, every sample. Oh and forget about a quiet line...all the auxiliary cables created a 60hz orchestra all by themselves. In the 1970's and 80's I made pause tapes - so that was an entirely different world of manual sampling and extending your favorite breakbeat parts!!! We had 2 boxes facing each other with NO RCA cables! Wore those play, rewind and pause buttons the hell out!1! So the OT just reminds me of a time when I worked with a limited palette of technology. Same for the OP-1, only 4 shitty, buzzy and noisy tracks and flattened overdubs carefully patterned out - but overall inspiring experimentation and creativity. I have made some of my best shit on an OP-1 and an OT because I was limited and had to push the envelope further. This made me accept a beat's "completion" because I could take it no further. With my MPC Live I want to add 12 effects to a sample and make a 4-layer snare drum!! Too many options. 24 exposures on a roll of film rendered the best, well though-out choices before you hit the shutter release button as opposed to infinite digital snapshots and filters on a 64 GB SD card. Too much variety. Renaissance masters painted with only 8 pigments, sometimes only 6. Sometimes limitation is good, too bad I didn't practice what I preach by limiting this long-ass post! Ha!
my first recording device was an entry-level fostex when i was about 15, never recorded anything worth a damn with it but that was my fault and not the 4-track's :D
"Roll of film". Yes! Absolutely true. Having to consider composition and such helped make me a decent photographer. These days, who cares? I never even look at most of the photos I take.
I"m working with a Digitakt+Octa2+Digitone. You aren't wrong it is a beast to learn and isn't the best for production or for live performance. It is however unique in many of the things it can do and does them well. I mostly use them to accompany my Serato controller and find them useful for performing live remixes and some "brainstorming" original productions. I wouldn't tell someone not to buy one, but I think it's good that you have pointed out most of the flaws.
you prolly dont care at all but does any of you know of a way to get back into an Instagram account? I stupidly lost my password. I love any tips you can give me
@Aldo Melvin Thanks so much for your reply. I got to the site thru google and I'm waiting for the hacking stuff atm. Seems to take quite some time so I will reply here later with my results.
I was using octatrack for 2 years, quite extensively. I did read the manual and learned it to use to its fullest potential. After 2 years I sold it, angry and depressed, how limited and complicated this device is. It is still creative, but annoying, Your interview is honest. I like it.
You've covered most of my criticisms. I have sold mine but what I remember is (1) the person who wrote the manual index decided to omit any term that is in the Contents list so major topics simply don't appear in the index at all (2) when using it as a DJ there is no track time elapsed/remaining indication and no shuttle facility.
yeah! that index is worthless - mostly I just search through the PDF manual on my computer now, but the hardcopy manual has been very nice to have - is a shame they didn't include an actual manual with the mk2
Just finally got chance to get an mki last week. I can't be any happier :) loving it's editing, resampling, sequencer, filters and compression. Pretty straight forward for an already elektron user but I can already see how much deeper it can gets. So much fun and big sounding! Thanks for your guides and videos about elektron equipment, helps a lot!
This is quite deep and really useful critique. Not so many people have so much patience to dig through all the menus and push the machine to those limitations. It's good that you mentioned nearly all of them . Thanks for sharing!
so many things got left out of this video, but I decided I wanted to be able to finish it during this lifetime - just aggregating the comments on this one so far I think I have enough meat to do a part 2 if I wanted :D
I am a fairly contented ARMkii and Digitone owner and have been waiting for a new OT 2nd Gen design before buying. I know the beauty of OT is DAWless, but I think a clever implementation of OverBridge could solve some problems at least for menu diving issues, although I’d still want a bigger, higher res screen with better workflow for my working memory issues when using it as a standalone instrument. I’m greedy that way too!
Had mine for 2 years, but sold it, since I could not get used to the fact that if I didn't use it for a week I almost had to relearn the entire machine all over again. You have this feature inside there somewhere but you just forgot where they had put it, in their completely non user friendly menu layout. I loved the machine for what it could do but hated it with intense passion for it's lack of a simple user interface. These menus drove me of the walls. Replaced it for an mpc force in conjunction with an mpc x and never looked back since. Both those machines even when not having used them for a longer period feel like coming home to something you know. Everything is almost intuitive, something you couldn't say about elektron machines. I love to hate elektron machines but I can't because of what they can do, if you remember how to, but they are just not for me. I gave them 2 years of my life, but damnit, elektron why so counter intuitive.
I've never enjoyed working with the OT for studio work. The OT is best used as a DAW replacement for live use or jamming. It's right in the name: "Performance Sampler". When I need to do real studio work and intricate sample manipulation, I use Live. Then when it is time to perform I bounce stems into the OT for live manipulation.
depends quite a bit on how you like to approach things, I've spent enough time with the Octatrack where most of what I tend to do with it is much slower for me to do on a computer. Either way though I find Live a bit tedious for what I like to do with samples/sampling and I'm more likely to use max/msp or Reaktor if I want to work with samples in the computer beyond basic editing/arranging
yeah true, there's a million ways to use the OT, everyone has their own flow. I can totally see how someone at your skill level with the machine would prefer it over a computer
I had an OT mk1 for about 6 months. I was warned that it had a steep learning curve before buying one but I had previous experience with other Elektron boxes so I figured that it would be no problem. The OT wasn't as hard to learn as I expected probably due to knowing the Elektron way already, but that said, it is definitely the most difficult of all of their boxes. The manual helps but it is confusing and I think was written by someone on the autism spectrum. UA-cam tutorials are far more useful. I ended up selling the Octatrack because for some reason it never imprinted on me. I had to always reach for the manual to remind myself how to do something that I have already learned at one point. For me it is by far the least fun Elektron machine to use. It's fun to jam on once you've already put something together using scenes and doing some knob twiddling but actually putting it together is tedious and annoying. The Digitakt is so much more user friendly and intuitive even if it is more limited. The Octatrack has amazing potential and is nuts in the hands of someone who is an OT wizard but I'm just way too impatient and scatterbrained to benefit from it.
i’ve owned an mkii for a year and a month.. i read the manual over the course of a month and barely grasped my foothold. the first feature i really latched onto was the infinite re-trig of a sample, and then tweaking the start time at the same time as the re-trig time. Adjusting the scene crossfader to engage lofi options (whatever the upper right and lower right settings are to about 35 each) and then fading over.. while using a vocal sample creates some fun magic. the internal recording feature is great. after ive recorded samples off of youtube. and then i layer and do live tweaking. I record and create some new really weird and unique sample. normalizing seems to be a must because a lot of what i record isn’t loud enough to use consistently with all my other samples.. temporary major con.. when i do normalize a sample.. i can’t play it back without it being too loud for my monitors.. therefor id have to turn down my monitor volume output.. so i end up saving my sample.. and then id assign it to a track and then listen to it and it’s fine.. I havent figured out the problem i’m having with this. I havent cracked into anything midi with it. my Audio work is. Jam band with a buddy of mine and we call ourselves Lake Party there are some vids on my channel. as well as tracks on band camp.
my device is straight forward left hand side on my desk, I use it primarily for looking TV (sound of the dvbt receiver moves into AB and then opening project just for replaying my TV signal!!!) When I received that goal I was the luckiest alien on earth. I NEVER will sell my Mark One, everyday we look at each other and we find that we fit together as one. My next project will be: finding some white noise from my arturia microbrute, record that and try to make some sounds.(well you are a god, Sir, Respect!!!). And my third project will be a random slicing of a cool drum track from cubase or ableton drum loops, this will open some musical doors, all that because of your cool stuff. Thank you Sir.
As a Model:Samples owner, the Digitakt looks like too little of an upgrade to me. The Octatrack comes next, but I feel like it’s RAM limitations, outlandish storage format, lack of Overbridge and other useful USB integration are too much to justify the price. But most importantly, having never used one, I feel like it’s too complicated for what it offers, and doesn’t « earn » its complexity. If there is ever a Mk 3 and it’s just Overbridge and more RAM, I may still get it someday. However, I think a really fantastic news would be a new box with Octatrack functionality (and more!) taking cues from the Digi series in terms of clarity and ease of access. Anyway, thanks a lot for sharing those points that are great to know before whipping out so much money. The lack of CTRL ALL would really hurt my habits haha.
The most annoying one for me (appart from the ones you've mentioned) is the inability to select a sample destination folder. That drives me insane. Say I have a breakbeat folder in my machine, I then sample a breakbeat from a record, I can't say "put this sample in that folder", it has to be by default in either the project folder or the audio pool. Great. And if I was to think "oh well, I'll just play with it for now and tidy up later when plugged to the laptop" => no no no no, because then the link would be broken for what I have created in the mean time :) OctaEdit would be the solution but I'll see what comes with V2 before investing. Other things that I'd like to see : - The ability to easily chose one of the 4 outputs for each tracks, instead of the studio mode+panning workaround. - A shortcut to activate or deactivate "quantize live rec" - Not retrig for midi tracks, other than with the arpegiator - Being able to play midi trigs in track mode (the same way you can play the audio tracks live by pressing 9 to 16, well this but with midi tracks, next to the audio ones. Maybe some of these already exists and I just never found them...
@@manne3d AFAIK as I know, there's no retrig per se, as in a proper retrig with two buttons : one for the number of repetition and one for the rate. You can simulate that behaviour with the arpegiator but it's way less straight forward.
@@MarcDupuis50400 Oh, that is a shame...but i guess clogging the one midi port with all that retrig data could have been a problem anyway (esp. since only 1 midi out port). But i am pretty sure i read that the note retrig on midi tracks was a Digitakt limitation. ..(from the many Octatrack vs Digitakt threads i have read)..maybe it was another retrig type (i think there is one in the note nudge page also? (is it Function + left-right arrow?)). But the arp looks like a good option, if it stay tight when modulating the speed.
Youre right. I think an acoustic guitar isnt that fun either if you dont know how to hold and play it, so just keep experimenting with the OT and you will learn more and more about it. i learned a decent amount of features by accident. maxmarcos videos are a great source of info too. best regarss
I have a Analog Keys and love it to death, I bought it the day it was released. It too had a learning curve with the manual being a must. I’ve wanted a Octatrack forever, but when I was ready to buy the MK ii dropped and I decided to wait. Hope the MK III is a actual upgrade or they replace it with something better. I was pretty bummed when the MK ii came out with almost no improvements except cosmetic changes, I thought for sure they would have Overbridge for the MK ii!!!!! That’s why I don’t own one yet, simply the lack of effort on the MK ii. The whole MK ii line for that matter.... Great video 🥇
thank you! re-building the Octatrack from the ground up on a new platform would require a substantial commitment of resources, in many ways it's surprising the Octatrack even exists in the first place
I’m about to sell my OT after 5 years off and on. I love it in many ways, but I hate not using it for a week and forgetting how to do some obscure function that I once knew how to do. I’ll be running with the Akai Force & ER-301 as my hardware sequencing setup from here on out.
Make sure you look hard at the force before purchasing. Its got a lot of potential if firmware updates are done right, but its very crippled at the moment
@@robertsyrett1992 Dont remember all the details. I had one earlier in the year, it was bad. Good place to read about it: c.getsatisfaction.com/akai_professional/categories/akai_professional_force
I feel like a basic DB meter in the Mixer page or on the Master channel would help a lot and would not be much to ask, just even a db number that updates a few frames a second would be great.
+1 on your wishlist for upgrades adding a stereowidth option at the AMP menu and a frequencyshifter in the FX. Personally i find the Octatrack very tedious to use but very rewarding when the pre-production is done. Keep the Octatrackvideos coming!
Another vid cementing you as the elektron "bad boy"! I appreciate how you walk the line of being one of the more interesting content creators using their products while coming across as an enemy
haha, thank you! I think it says a lot about the electronic music hardware niche that simply not being a milquetoast shill automatically equates to 'bad boy' and is somehow viewed as adversarial :D :D :D Often it seems like many people willfully disregard all nuance as they desperately seek to have their purchasing decisions justified and validated by others.
That neighbor amp thing is SO true! It makes not sense to me at all and has tripped me up multiple times. Not to mention the departure from the Monomachine way of FX tracks where it is its own track freely assignable where you have the send play anywhere but have the fx be panned however along with its own track properties(including filter/amp/and track fx of its own) very sad. Another limitation that always prevents me from going wild with the OT is the limitation of 4 parts/kits per bank. In a machine so full of possibilities, I have to really narrow down which random assortment of configurations are THE parts/kits. Not usable across other banks
Thank you so much for this comprehensive and dense video. You just gave me some ideas to play with some parameters to alter the sound which to my ears often just sounded "not round" enough. (Compared to an MPC 1000 and especially an EPS).
I own and love the Octatrack, but this video is an EXCELLENT criticism of the device. It’s all the little things I wish would be different about it. That said, it’s still a one-of-a-kind device that is second to none when it comes to creative live sample manipulation.
The around 5ms latency using audio thru tracks seems like a limitation that will stop me from using monitoring/mixer with realtime FX on the octatrack...should be like 1-2ms.
my pleasure, will be making more of them! sounds like you have good taste :D Octatrack is an amazing machine, but you definitely have to be willing to meet it on its own terms and take your time; there's nothing else quite like it
@@maxmarco Thank you! I'm not in a hurry and I know what I'm getting into. One topic at a time and slowly expand my knowledge. Shouldn't be too difficult, just a lot ;)
In my opinion (pretty close to yours) ELEKTRON cheaped out on the MK2: - the CPU/DSP-power - cf-card-reader - small OLED - no industry standard battery power - proper pitching-algorithm (CPU/DSP?) and having to re-sample to get more than -12semis is sad af. - also so sad not being able just to loop some sample-area infinitely without any trigger (beside the first initiating one) interrupting - another wish would be to take a sample-area and say those are 1,2,3,4, etc. whatever bars and it sets the bpm accordingly or warps this sample-area to the already set BPM (like ableton live does) - simple and not enough LFOs ...and most of those things just to increase the profit margin, instead of giving us a true legend, but many people would even pay any price up to 3k for a truly uncompromising machine. I had the MK1 many years ago, but the cf-card-reader broke after using it a couple of times (I didn't switch cards or anything). It took them weeks to repair it and after that I could not trust it any more. The bad pitching/no non-trigger-based-looping and all the other compromises because of weak CPU/DSP made me sell it. It is so close to be legendary, yet so far. Maybe MK3 will be the real Octatrack?
Great video. The Octratrack leaves so much to be desired but that is also why I love it LOL. All the pitfalls force you to pre-plan, improvise, go down side roads and focus on whats important I so so agree about the lack of a gain stage with the neighbor tracks though Neighbor tracks could have been so much more useful. They could have also let them be a way to get around the post effect mute thing that people always complain about, but they don't let you mute the sending track either.
-pitch only on octave up and one octave down... no decent envelope section... I would love some kind of dynamic way to create parameter automation between 2 locks and so accurately control the parameters in the sequence.
You just about said it all. I thought I just didn’t know what I was doing so im glad you brought up the points on the fx.....this is the first piece of gear I ever bought that truly intimidated me, and still gives me anxiety, but it’s helped me learn a lot about things. Not sure if it matters in the long run, because it’s suppose to be about making music, but at least it feels rewarding when you figure things out.
Most electronic musical instruments have nowhere near the depth of an actual musical instrument, and true instruments require a significant period of learning and practice before you can attempt to use them to make even somewhat decent music - no one expects to pick up a guitar and start immediately shredding like Eddie Van Halen. Well, maybe some people do, but they're obviously morons :D
I love my OT and have any plans for giving it up, but I've surprisingly found this video particularly interesting in learning things that are likely to avoid, eg. filter and eq issues. Thanks!
my pleasure! I have demo'ed those types of issues here and there in some of my Octatrack info videos as well - ua-cam.com/video/JSRFMsFwRXs/v-deo.html addresses gain/clipping and non-transparent FX, and putting together this video - ua-cam.com/video/c5OiVlGZWiY/v-deo.html - really taught me a lot about some of the weirdness/filth lurking in the reverbs
Haha you almost convinced me to sell mine BUT. I have been through the learning pain and I really don't want to miss it's benefits any more, it does work well for the kind of live improvisation stuff I want to do. But you are right, it is very idiosyncratic. Not quite perfect but also uniquely unmatched and good enough. Indeed more IO would be awesome. My biggest gripe is about having to manually assign recorded samples after recording them. It would cool if you can copy/drop the eight recorded loops into a new pattern with one button press. That "Assign to Free Flex Slot" command should also select that slot for the current track. Instead I have to hunt it manually.
If you think the Octa has a small screen wait until you feast your eyes on an MK1 Rytm or Analog Four. Oh boy. Also, I think a 'why you shouldn't buy a machinedrum' video is in necessary in order to further balance things out around here ;)
The lack of inputs and outputs is by far my biggest gripe. An Octatrack with 8 in and outs would be so versatile. Or at the very least, an option to use the headphone out as a totally separate out.
I literally have had dreams that Elektron just randomly drops a brand new Octatrack. I want a new model so badly, but alas, it's still the best sampler out there.
Robert Syrett I think a few reasons. Aesthetics, unresponsive touch screen, and too similar of a work flow to a computer to name a few. Those are my reasons at least. I like the elektron ecosystem and the music they inspire. I love the old mpc’s though.
@@EZBOT_ 1 year later, Akai has released the MPC One with tons of dedicated buttons and added synth engines and linear arranger mode. Elektron has given us a paint job and a sample pack for the same old design. What's weird is I'm not even tempted by the MPC, since putting in the time to get to know the OT it's become irreplaceable.
Max Marco- You are the glutton for punishment and I always enjoy your depth of understanding and explanations when it comes to the Elektron methodology. Keep up the great and helpful work for those who have the curiosity to approach the Octatrack.
I had a mk1 like 10 years ago when there wasn't much documentation or videos to reference. Reading the manual was quite possibly the most frustrating thing I ever put myself through and I came out with twice the amount of questions than I started with. I sold it pretty quickly. 10 years later, I feel pretty competent with my Rytm Mk2 and I'd like to give OT another chance. But, I've been seeing some cryptic comments lately, so maybe gonna hold and see if a mk3 drops.
@@aikighost I have played with the Digitakt a couple of years ago and I liked it a lot. I read about the new update. I'm actually thinking about trading in the Rytm for a Digitakt for that very reason and using the extra for a couple more Eurorack modules.
I really like the title...it's almost sacrilegious to suggest such mischief about the Octa.....for me an "oh no" pops and I start listening.....as a result another elektron masterclass was offered. Great teaching technic my friend. I believe you are ready for Paetron platform and get something for your effort. As a working class person I understand and value honest work. Young man keep on keeping on. If were to ask your opinion about a setup are you able to share your two cents?
hehe! I felt a need to bring some balance to the force... :D Thanks much!! I'm happy to share my perspective on a setup - as always these things are very personal though, so my opinion might be irrelevant
I view the Octatrack's functions as being a collection of tools for solving musical problems, sometimes they are simple problems, other times they are complicated - no wrong way to use scenes as long as they are helping you get closer to your musical goals
@@maxmarco true...its the realization thru watching demos that cause the issue of the redundancy concern....will figure it out ...thank you. a good weekend to you.
max marco title is a bit click-bait (more than “OT limitations” guess), but the video is worth it :) You could have mentioned mutes that cut eg the reverb tails. The step sequencer aspect could have been better explained, and it’s worth mentioning that on Digitone it was improved. Other limitations: the A1 and A#1 notes used as transport. No FILL button on mk2 is a shame: the shortcut is stupidly unnatural and different from the other boxes. Parts are my main grip. All other boxes have Kits and you can have a Kit per Pattern.
So much valuable information in here. Thanks marco! I always viewed OT as the best compact instrument for techno and ambient music. Especially for techno, that raw sound of OT and artifacts make it sound pretty underground.. and looks too of course (mk1) :) So the features I really would love to have in OT: 1. A setting that makes 8 midi tracks 8 audio tracks. Yes this would require more processing power but we are not always using all the RAM or the effects on all tracks. So sometimes having extra audio tracks just to play short samples would be great. 2. Grouping. Like in DAW. For grouping multiple tracks and then do FX only on those tracks. 3. No kill of reverb tail when muting track. 4. Sidechain parameter for compressor. Yeah, that's all :) I actually think these things can be done by simply a software update too.
My biggest gripe about the octatrak is I cannot copy and paste a pattern to a empty pattern spot before switching to it. It’s especially disappointing because this is basic functionality with the pocket operators and volca sample.
The only thing that really annoys me is that the compressor does not have a sidechain feature.. I know ways around this but a true sidechain would be so dope.. Also my knobs are yellow after 12 years of usage and I can’t get new ones..
As someone who has owned a monomachine and Machinedrum and grown to know them fairly well. How hard would you say it would be to learn the Octatrack from that position? Thanks for a great vid!!
thanks man! In my opinion the initial learning curve of the Octatrack is actually pretty shallow, and especially so if you are familiar with other Elektrons. It's once you really start to realize the possibilities and start digging into the deep functionality that the learning curve suddenly takes a sharp turn towards near-vertical and the potential for frustration and confusion increases dramatically. This is where having a solid mental map of the OT becomes essential in order to troubleshoot/solve issues and you will begin to dig into the manual for nitty-gritty details. I can see some users never really going past that initial shallow learning curve though (and never bothering to open the manual), since even at that level there is so much you can do with OT.
@@maxmarco Exactly ! I used the MD for years, and using the OT as a sampler/slicer sound design machine is fun and quite easy. It's when you want to use the arranger, sample your tracks or compose entirely with it as the center piece that things start to get tricky. A lot of work goes into keeping things organized and trying to fit the limitations
I know this is going to sound silly. But i got it because of the scenes. Absolutely genieus idea and baring copy right laws, i cant see why no other company has copied this idea. I really enjoy the digitakt but the scenes are epic in song structure. I would love an updated 2020 OS upgrade or new OT MK3 with an easier and simpler OS. Keeping fingers crossed.
not silly at all, imo the crossfader + scene functionality is the killer feature of the Octatrack and what ties everything together very nicely - really wish they had put scenes into more products than just OT and Rytm - if they had combined AR and A4 into one do-it-all analog box with lots of performance features I would definitely have one!
Nice Vid. You obviously have a lot of knowledge and experience with the Octatrack (way more than me). Do you have any recommendations for alternatives that have stereo capabilities, FX, and a macro control(s) for performance type stuff? Are there any samplers / sample players that tick most of your boxes? Thanks.
this video is just to balance out all the free Octatrack advertisement I provide :D but essentially the subliminal punchline of this video is that I don't currently consider anything to be an alternative, other than perhaps a nice modular case set up with some sweet modular samplers. I got into Elektron coming from modular gear, Octatrack is very much a modular sampler - the only other hardware samplers I've owned (other than Machinedrum UW) are eurorack modules. A modular equivalent to the Octatrack will cost a ton of money and be way bigger! The Octatrack exists in its own class. If you really want a no-compromises approach to what the Octatrack paradigm can offer, you'll have to re-build the concept in software (I'd recommend max/msp) and make a custom controller for it
@@maxmarco Thanks man. Wow, it is a joy to chat with someone who is so honest and knowledgeable. And you make a great point. I have a 104 hp eurorack specifically designed for one synth voice (loquelic Iteritas) and a line in for PC or microbrute to then feed a bunch of distortion, filter and feedback modules to make things really gritty and dirty. I am in love with the idea of DAWless performances so don't particularly enjoy the idea of an Ableton or laptop based setup. I have a Digitakt and Octatrack, hopefully for creative performances, and I have had a lot of success working on the two together, but more so with the Digi. Coming from a DAW environment (Cubase) I just can't seem to get on with the workflow of the Octa. Things are so far from immediate on the Octa that it kinda feels pointless to try, even though I really want to get into the loop mangling capabilities. I think this is why I really want a simpler loop player with mangling capabilities. Oh, and with un-compromised sound quality, which I now know the Octa doesn't quite respect after watching your video, and reading in forums that the Octa tends to make samples sound worse on default settings. But you are right... for the money, and the physical footprint, the Octa is kinda unmatched. And the other boxes of similar ilk all seem too basic. Cheers man.
they succeeded in making a true instrument with the Octatrack - which also unfortunately means it demands a lot of time investment. It took me about the first 2-3 years to feel legitimately comfortable and even now I'm still always learning something new just about every time I sit down with it
My friend has an octatrack. It’s pretty fricken cool. But I’m happy with integrating my synths with my DAW so it seems a little redundant for my style of working.
this is a great video man, and I agree with 99% what you stated here. I guess most of the OT limitations comes from limited processing power. Still it's one of the best and deepest machines out there, love mine.
Nice analysis! My biggest problem with the OT is what you mentioned about the MIDI tracks being so simple that you can't even record your own playing into it. Not to mention the fact that you're always locked into a pattern-oriented workflow. I wish it had linear sequencing tracks that would let you record for arbitrary amounts of time. I guess that could be mostly solved by simply allowing for patterns that are longer than 4 bars, like 128 bars or something. Then you could use that track-step-length-decoupling (or whatever you call it) feature to set a track to be really long in comparison to the other tracks.
I think it works great as a sampler and the midi sequencing is a bonus. But you are right when you start trying to squeeze the extra features out of it, it starts to get hairy. I love using it but always tell myself it is a sampler and midi sequencer. I really use as a sampler more then a drum machine or any other feature. It has some nice features I really like allot but feel if get a cirklon or a pyramid it be on the chopping block. Tough in allot ways.
Respect. Hats of to the knowledge you deliver in all your vids. Yes, you do have your own style which might putt off a few . . but I am alwasys floored down with how you deliver and share THE “how to...” ...not talking about production, editing, script etc. Superb. If Elektron is looking on for anyone who knows and cares in community and users . . rather then wanna beees, you should be on their payroll already .... I would hire you in a minute. ...... now, I belive I will need a month to get to each of your comments. Q are you sripting your lines or are you talking off your head. Thanks
thanks a lot! for this type of video essay where I talk in front of the camera it's mostly scripted - when I take time to shoot footage I like to be able to do it as efficiently as possible, and it saves on editing time also
Honestly I think I just had a flash back to your reaction about the *roland groove boxes. And fkn yes. Yes same. Even with ppl I respect pushing that product. Happy to have enough experience / general music knowledge to not be swooned by rgb TINY SCREEN. honestly I’m actually curious about how the *oled screen does in daylight. Most underrated video my guy but also niche price points my guy.
while there are better options for each of its individual functions, it still is a heck of a machine. especially once you understand its concepts and use the sample chain method. the speed with which you can remix your own creations and make its elements exchangeable is mindbogling still.... the sampling resolution is a little underwhelming though, you need external FX and mixing options and you d probably need a tablet with IO and modstep to have proper chords in the mix... i wish some freaks would start coming up with modifications for this before this ingenious approach disappears from the market.
What alternative would you recommend for a sampler that has many modulation capabilities like the Octatrack but lets you arrange your tracks with a separate sequencer or DAW?
not sure if there's anything outside of modular samplers that's comparable, so I actually have to say Octatrack; it has an incredible amount of functions exposed to external MIDI control so there's no need to use the internal sequencer at all
the default behavior of the buffers is that they are cleared when you turn off OT - however it sounds like you have assigned a file to the record buffers, and the OT will load the assigned file to the record buffer when loading the project. You can remove the association between the file and the record buffer by func+clear on the record buffer in the flex slot menu, and I think there's also a clear command in the audio editor file menu. Record buffers are basically just flex slots you can also record into
The other thing is not being able to trigger slices via midi and AFAIK only the single selected sample per track can be triggered. Not owning a digitakt, I recently saw that it supports locks for sample start/end and program changes, too bad that the octatrack does not have this. The Digitakt also stores mute states and tempi per pattern.
Octatrack produces very quiet samples, even when driven into "red" in the inputs. That way I have difficulties to re-use the samples or loops elsewhere. I went over to record and slice with MPC1000 and then put it into the octatrack. If its not about time stretching or polyrhythm I tend to stay within the MPC :) Is there a way to record samples at a decent level with the octatrack? (Even the digitakt can do that - but that one lacks even the basic sample editing capabilities of the octatrack such as zoom). Great channel btw. - honest and profound statements from one who really uses the machines.
Thank you for convincing me not to buy the Octatrack. I will buy a Digitakt instead. I used to own an OT but ended up selling it so I could buy different Elektron gear, the OT gave my nightmares. I must admit, I am still slightly tempted in a masochistic way.
Ok, but what stuff would you recommend instead of Elektrons to drive at least 8 audio an 8 midi tracks? MPCs have many other issues. Maybe PolyEnd Play?
What's holding me back is I already have Model:Cycles, and even though I haven't full learned or explored it yet, I recently bought the Digitone. I fell down the Elektron's rabbit hole, at first I wasn't sure whether this is for me, and now I have two devices, and I know it won't end here. So for now I won't be getting new gear until I will learn and use what I already have to it's full potential, and there is a lot to delve into. By the way now I'm at the stage where I'm not sure whether I need a sampler, but who am I kidding? Octatrack is I what I need... eventually.
I really wish all parameters had a higher resolution to fine tune. I have to use scenes just to get fine increments. It's annoying because obviously the engine is more than capable, just not available on the encoders.
Hi, sorry for my English. I use Octatrack MK1. When I play live looping, it always compresses or stretches the recorded loops. It always a hindrance. How to disable it? I tried all the settings, it doesn't help! Maybe I didn't quite understand the instructions. Tell me, if you know. Thanks for your videos!
My main hesitation on buying an Octatrack is I can't find a video there gives me a thorough breakdown of the features and precisely what it does besides 'sampler mangler and arranger' comments. So, let me ask a question this way: If the OT is so difficult to use and takes a lot of commitment, what makes it worth the frustration? What are you getting done on the OT that you haven't been able to get done on other devices? I love Elektron gear and have a Digitone and Model Samples, but I haven't gotten the OT yet because I can't figure out exactly WTF it does! lol :)
that's a video I've thought about making, something titled along the lines of 'WTF is the Octatrack??" - none of the videos I've seen explain the overall concept succinctly or effectively to someone that's never used an Elektron - certainly not something easy to do though! The biggest strengths of the Octatrack for myself are that it's very open-ended and modular, making for a very effective electronic music sketchpad, while at the same time it encourages performing your musical ideas - it's designed as an instrument and is not just a production tool.
Update over 1 year later: been a happy OT owner for quite some time. Learning curve is not that bad using Merlin’s Guide to understand it conceptually before digging in. Some of the workflow is tedious and it can be frustrating when wanting to work quickly but it’s worth the ride to expand your ideas to areas they otherwise would have never ventured to.
Not for the sunday musician, it took me years! I do have a question; I keep hearing these morph between a synth and human voice (start as synth ends with human ), how do you make that? is it a feature of high end synth costing fortune? I did try few morphing software but mitigated success. any tips? cool channel!
if you're talking MDUW then it should reduce it a substantial amount, but there are still significant differences between the devices as OT goes much deeper and is a bit more abstracted. Octatrack was the first Elektron I bought, but I was able to borrow a friend's MDUW for a few weeks before and although learning OT was still very challenging borrowing the MDUW first definitely helped me get into the 'Elektron mindset' and smoothed out the initial learning curve
the appeal and the frustration of the OT are one and the same. It is from the frustrations that general new ideas are born... it is truly a mysterious love affair.
Hi great video! You perfectly summed up the entire range of WTF moments I have been experiencing since I got mine 9 months ago. I believe you didn't mention that the OT can't record Direct-To-Disk. I does play back in streaming mode using static machines, but doesn't record in that mode. My Akai S5000 from 1998, (besides having 128 voices of polyphony and velcity layers, great time stretching, 32 parts multitimbral) records 26 minutes in RAM and unlimited size to disk (I have currently 23 hours of stereo 44.1 16 bit recording time left on the internal drive.) I ended up deciding to forget about the midi sequencer at all and got a Pyramid (which has its own limitations but we can expect at least another firmware update). I use the OT as a live looper, and for mangling live sound using scenes (but am bummed by the pickup machines and the automatic BPM adjustment which is too unpredictable to use in concert, and we cannot disable this functionality). So I only use the OT for scenes, and the sequencer for chopping up stuff. Not as a production center, which it is not its primary use, imho. It's more something like a construction set with lots of elements to choose from: use the ones you need, combine them perhaps (that's usually where the WTF journey starts), and don't force yourself to use all of them at once......
Man where are you? Miss your vids and would like your take on the latest OS. I was hoping a stereowidth parameter would be added to the Amp and a frequencyshifter to the fx section but that'll be the day i guess. So how do you like the anniversary OS?
I think you just gave elektron a roadmap for a new much better updated machine
just one point of view really - the Octatrack is a very open-ended box and not easy to categorize, so it's difficult to say what would make sense going forward - is mostly a matter of taste and goals. My assumption is that the original concept for OT probably had rather modest goals in comparison to the feature greed I champion in this video, and the final featureset most likely far exceeded initial expectations
@@maxmarco I feel like you summed it up very well and some of these point, if "solved" would open up the machine for a lot of ppl that want to enjoy the OT. Like myself, and a whole lot more folks it seems like. Anyways, super intressting videos, really like the music your producing too, great work!
@@maxmarco I'd just like to see a polyphonic, full note range flex machine added in an OS update. With some features disabled if CPU is the issue.
motoboy6666 yes
max marco That sums it up pretty well. It’s hard not to want it all with today’s tech and prices though, lol. I have an MPC Live that definitely competes on many levels and a Digitakt yet I’m still tempted to trade up. My main hesitation is that, also having a Squarp Pyramid for MIDI sequencing, I may get more out of the Analog Rytm, but I would like a more capable sample mangler than the Digi has, and I think the Octa far exceeds the Rytm there.. lol. Granted, I could have skipped the squarp and used the Live for sequencing everything else, but I don’t love it, while a big screen is nice, I end up wishing I had a mouse and keyboard and then realize I’m just using a limited DAW with a smaller screen, not going dawless. Maybe selling the live and digi in favor of the octa and rytm is my answer. The Live, on paper, is so lovable though..
I had no idea that several of the effects degrade the signal when dry, but this solved some of the mysterious audio quality issues I’ve noticed. Thanks!
Currently trying to save up some money and get a brand new OT Mk2. Things previously holding me back were the lack of polyphony and the fact that I have always found samples, or rather the process of sampling, uninspiring. But then I stopped thinking about the OT as a sampler in the traditional sense and realized it is an 8-track recorder, or rather 8 interlinked recorders, that you can mess around with. I also like the thought of recording stuff from my synths directly into the OT: no need to sit in front of a computer. Although I love Ableton Live and the flexibility of having a DAW and a bunch of plugins available, all that power also distracts me from actually CREATING things, because the possibilities are limitless and eventually I lose my vision into the ocean of choices. The OT encourages you to find a way to make it fit your needs - even though it is "authoritarian", as you put it. But I've grown to like that with the Rytm and the A4. I like limitations and trying to get around them - and hardware sets you hard limits.
Everything in this video is undeniably true, and yet watching it jsut makes me want to turn on my Octatrack and spend the rest of the evening messing with it.
Just over a minute in and i'm already writing this to thank you for saving me money! The way you explain ''if you have trouble visualising...'' yep, 100%. I wish more music tech reviews told it like you do here.
The manual requires previous experience with the machine, in order to understand it. TRUTH
Synth & Sundry Well I guess I’ve got a lot of reading to do with that and the merlin’s guide.
Oh, so much truth. The good thing, though, is that with growing experience, the manual becomes more and more useful. And hey, that's better than IKEA manuals which... never become useful. ^^
I have bought the mk2 and I learned from tutorials and was easy peasy lol.
Really good for its price. What would u buy a pioneer mixer and link it via internet cables?
"If you have a poor working memory and experiencing difficulties visualising and internalising abstract networks of functionality...." yep that's me! Thanks for giving words to what holds me back from such devices
I have same problem.
Thats why I take Sample Model
This is the semi exact line I say to students learning subnetting, and programming in linux... lol.... great phrase...
@@vadimzitsermusicianvlogcha3870 The new overlay makes me want one. I didn't realize the Modal is like an electribe
schipbreukeling Ha ha ha this is definitely me especially as I’m getting older but I’m constantly challenging myself / my brain.
Greater complexity does not mean deeper functionality. The thing that kills me every time I use the OT is the complete inconsistency of the UI. The same functionality will require different key combos depending on what you are doing. It's not abstract, it's just poorly designed UI. You have to learn it brute force before any flow comes.
it's a shame you dont post new videos man, really like your takes
I like the Octatrack MK 2 much and it is for me the best music device so far. But I think it is time to design and produce
an Octatrack 2 (actual to today’s Technology) and not reduced cheap Model S or low priced music boxes or a MK 3.
that is what I am waiting for since having my Octatrack MK2 for four years and just got Roland SP 404 MK2 to keep me happy until then.
@@GuitarsAndSynthswhat are your thoughts on both? I'm stuck between them.
Have had mine for less than a month and enjoying it already. Its not nearly as hard as I thought it would be (lots of youtube videos help with the steep learning curve), but I've been using DAWs for 20 years and I have an MPC Live and I was going to get a cheap mk1 for live sets, but a cheap mk2 popped up, so I snatched that one cause of the 2 year warranty that came with it.
As much as I like the OT, the points being made, are spot on.
The MPC Live sounds better and that is not because of the FX and EQs and compressors and what not, I transferred the sample sample (16bit 44.1k) and played it back at the same peak level and the MPC Live just sounds better and I am talking blind test between me and my Mrs, both always selected the MPC DACs as the better sounding ones, in the blind test.
And that is before we get to the OT effects which are decent...by 1998 standards. It is a digital box and its not transparent, at all. It has a sound...if you like that sound is up to you.
Having said that, it is great to have on stage and its very easy to control and assign the basic stuff you'd use for a techno set, so unless it breaks on stage, I am happy.
IF you want flexibility and are serious about finishing tracks, a DAW runs *circles* around the OT and MPC Live, combined.
If you want a fun sampler to jam (I've been using samplers since the AKAI S1100) and mangle up stuff, without caring much about "hi-fi" sound, this is a good option.
You sort of laid you how the Octatrack is not a center-piece for purely making tracks, that is easier with a DAW indeed. After all IMO the Octatrack is relatively far off of being a DAW.
It's could be viewed as the Ableton clip-view but lacks a lot of a DAW's immediate editability.
I’d say the Digitakt if you don’t mind it’s own limitations is a more direct and simpler approach to being a sample based instrument and sequencer than the Octatrack but it really comes down to what your expectations are and what you want to do.
The whole DAW in a box title and desire of a lot of people seems out of place when considering Elektron as you should probably just go with some sort of tablet if that’s what you really want since the MPC Live is so expensive compared to a pc tablet that would give you a literal Daw in a box approach. And for that reason I’d say from my experience it’s best to explore your desired workflow as cheaply as possible and once you figure out what workflow approach is best for you dropping a grand or so on a so called ‘all in one’ machine can just be a headache and disappointment. So take your time, watch the big walk through video’s on what your considering before taking any major financial plunge as most times unless you happen to snag a piece at a killer price point you’ll just end up losing money in the process, though that is sometimes un-avoidable.
When I was looking to get a higher quality sampler to move up to from a Volca Sample the Octatrack was to expensive for me and the Digitakt really looked like it would crush not just the volca but my beatstep pro. And it does! I prefer actual gear over software and I like touch screen apps at times but I really love having a dedicated piece of gear over that so having a hardware device is a part of my preferred method. It may not be yours and that’s up to you to decide what’s best for you at the end of the day is all that really matters.
I usually have the most time to play oddly enough at my job. The Digitakt is smaller than the Octatrack so porting it with me is great.
I’m a novice when it comes to composing my songs and I still haven’t even gotten to my imagined method of composing my ideas from my beatbox recordings to sample and slice them into the Digitakt. And replacing the sliced parts with samples but I know I can do it that way and it will be so awesome when I get my method into practice and get comfortable with the process.
Yeah, the Octa and Digi have their gripes and weaknesses but there are plenty of options for consideration to those who can’t get past them.
I’d say the Digitakt is a much cleaner and simpler machine so as to keep you from being so overwhelmed when it comes to the Octatrack’s menu system and additional options and approaches.
For me the Digitakt is my favorite all in one instrument regardless of it’s flaws or limitations especially since I have yet to use it’s massive sequencing capabilities to create more IDM like compositions and I like that the only intimidating part to doing so is just my willingness to take the time to work over a track to do it rather than the ‘how to’ do it as it’s really flexible in the ‘how YOU want to do it’ freedom to approaching it by either live recording of parameter movements or per step micro editing to perfect your composition.
I can chain the 16 sequences set at their max length and live record the whole thing one part at a time. If you can play more than one thing at a time you can do that too.
So for me I don’t even create songs on a level that need 8 tracks let alone the 11 I can have at max using the midi tracks with my 3 synths so I’ll never run out of creative freedom even if or when I get my composing method mastered.
There are plenty of newer and older options for anyone who prefers to do things differently than Elektron’s approach. But for me I love the thought provoking programming along with the clacky computer key style of the machine that it really helps me to go from my wild imagination to an organized and detail oriented approach that gives me a sense of transforming those IDM like chaotic ideas into an actual reality in a way that I obsessively enjoy losing myself in everytime.
I still have a ways to go in getting comfortable with my method of approach but it’s so rewarding regardless of my snail like pace in getting to the greater depths of more full and complex compositions.
thanks for sharing your thoughts! the Digi line are excellent designs and popular for good reason, my impression is that they have been smash hits for the company and substantially outselling the older machines
Sold the Octatrack after 4 years of heavy use and lots and lots of learning. Got an Akai Force now and couldn’t be happier. Never missed the OT since.. don’t get me wrong - I love being limited to challenge my creativity but working mostly with field recordings I found the OT unnecessary complicated and distracting where as the Force is way more spontaneous and allows me to focus more on actually making music..
OT with better MIDI, better architecture (like a beefed up DT instead), and Overbridge capability, higher resolution of parameters, as well as native 24-bit would be amazing
I sold my version one before V2 was announced. My main reason was menu-diving and frustration with my own personal memory. I tend to shift around a lot on gear, and the OT requires constant use to maintain muscle memory and a good mental map of all the multiple button-press features.
100% legitimate arguments here. I wished the OT was more fluid. It is robotic, rigid and limiting.
B U T ......the reason why I like the OT overall though is EXACTLY because of its limits. Reminds me of the early 1990s when I had a Fostex cassette 4-track recorder with a crappy Gemini 8-sec mixer sampler and an even shittier Alesis rack effects unit. How about ZERO visual reference - you had to put full trust in your auditory instincts. I had to make damn sure that all 4 tracks were optimized to creativity beyond mechanical capability and this has made me appreciate my beats from the 1990s even more. I had no sequencer, I had to tap in every drum, every sample. Oh and forget about a quiet line...all the auxiliary cables created a 60hz orchestra all by themselves. In the 1970's and 80's I made pause tapes - so that was an entirely different world of manual sampling and extending your favorite breakbeat parts!!! We had 2 boxes facing each other with NO RCA cables! Wore those play, rewind and pause buttons the hell out!1! So the OT just reminds me of a time when I worked with a limited palette of technology. Same for the OP-1, only 4 shitty, buzzy and noisy tracks and flattened overdubs carefully patterned out - but overall inspiring experimentation and creativity. I have made some of my best shit on an OP-1 and an OT because I was limited and had to push the envelope further. This made me accept a beat's "completion" because I could take it no further. With my MPC Live I want to add 12 effects to a sample and make a 4-layer snare drum!! Too many options. 24 exposures on a roll of film rendered the best, well though-out choices before you hit the shutter release button as opposed to infinite digital snapshots and filters on a 64 GB SD card. Too much variety. Renaissance masters painted with only 8 pigments, sometimes only 6. Sometimes limitation is good, too bad I didn't practice what I preach by limiting this long-ass post! Ha!
my first recording device was an entry-level fostex when i was about 15, never recorded anything worth a damn with it but that was my fault and not the 4-track's :D
"Roll of film". Yes! Absolutely true. Having to consider composition and such helped make me a decent photographer. These days, who cares? I never even look at most of the photos I take.
thank you for sharing 💯
I"m working with a Digitakt+Octa2+Digitone.
You aren't wrong it is a beast to learn and isn't the best for production or for live performance. It is however unique in many of the things it can do and does them well. I mostly use them to accompany my Serato controller and find them useful for performing live remixes and some "brainstorming" original productions. I wouldn't tell someone not to buy one, but I think it's good that you have pointed out most of the flaws.
you prolly dont care at all but does any of you know of a way to get back into an Instagram account?
I stupidly lost my password. I love any tips you can give me
@Rohan Brady instablaster :)
@Aldo Melvin Thanks so much for your reply. I got to the site thru google and I'm waiting for the hacking stuff atm.
Seems to take quite some time so I will reply here later with my results.
@Aldo Melvin It worked and I now got access to my account again. I'm so happy:D
Thank you so much you saved my ass!
@Rohan Brady No problem =)
I was using octatrack for 2 years, quite extensively. I did read the manual and learned it to use to its fullest potential. After 2 years I sold it, angry and depressed, how limited and complicated this device is. It is still creative, but annoying, Your interview is honest. I like it.
You've covered most of my criticisms. I have sold mine but what I remember is (1) the person who wrote the manual index decided to omit any term that is in the Contents list so major topics simply don't appear in the index at all (2) when using it as a DJ there is no track time elapsed/remaining indication and no shuttle facility.
yeah! that index is worthless - mostly I just search through the PDF manual on my computer now, but the hardcopy manual has been very nice to have - is a shame they didn't include an actual manual with the mk2
Just finally got chance to get an mki last week. I can't be any happier :) loving it's editing, resampling, sequencer, filters and compression. Pretty straight forward for an already elektron user but I can already see how much deeper it can gets. So much fun and big sounding! Thanks for your guides and videos about elektron equipment, helps a lot!
This is quite deep and really useful critique. Not so many people have so much patience to dig through all the menus and push the machine to those limitations. It's good that you mentioned nearly all of them . Thanks for sharing!
so many things got left out of this video, but I decided I wanted to be able to finish it during this lifetime - just aggregating the comments on this one so far I think I have enough meat to do a part 2 if I wanted :D
I am a fairly contented ARMkii and Digitone owner and have been waiting for a new OT 2nd Gen design before buying. I know the beauty of OT is DAWless, but I think a clever implementation of OverBridge could solve some problems at least for menu diving issues, although I’d still want a bigger, higher res screen with better workflow for my working memory issues when using it as a standalone instrument. I’m greedy that way too!
Had mine for 2 years, but sold it, since I could not get used to the fact that if I didn't use it for a week I almost had to relearn the entire machine all over again. You have this feature inside there somewhere but you just forgot where they had put it, in their completely non user friendly menu layout. I loved the machine for what it could do but hated it with intense passion for it's lack of a simple user interface. These menus drove me of the walls. Replaced it for an mpc force in conjunction with an mpc x and never looked back since. Both those machines even when not having used them for a longer period feel like coming home to something you know. Everything is almost intuitive, something you couldn't say about elektron machines. I love to hate elektron machines but I can't because of what they can do, if you remember how to, but they are just not for me. I gave them 2 years of my life, but damnit, elektron why so counter intuitive.
Our misery is elektron's mission with 8ta thats why it made digitakt in a way.. but i still prefer my mpc live
Then buy a Digitakt, sold my OCTrack too.
I've never enjoyed working with the OT for studio work. The OT is best used as a DAW replacement for live use or jamming. It's right in the name: "Performance Sampler". When I need to do real studio work and intricate sample manipulation, I use Live. Then when it is time to perform I bounce stems into the OT for live manipulation.
depends quite a bit on how you like to approach things, I've spent enough time with the Octatrack where most of what I tend to do with it is much slower for me to do on a computer. Either way though I find Live a bit tedious for what I like to do with samples/sampling and I'm more likely to use max/msp or Reaktor if I want to work with samples in the computer beyond basic editing/arranging
yeah true, there's a million ways to use the OT, everyone has their own flow. I can totally see how someone at your skill level with the machine would prefer it over a computer
A latch or "hold" switch is my number 1 request for Elektron gear in general, or even as a mode.This would be useful for the function button as well
I had an OT mk1 for about 6 months. I was warned that it had a steep learning curve before buying one but I had previous experience with other Elektron boxes so I figured that it would be no problem. The OT wasn't as hard to learn as I expected probably due to knowing the Elektron way already, but that said, it is definitely the most difficult of all of their boxes. The manual helps but it is confusing and I think was written by someone on the autism spectrum. UA-cam tutorials are far more useful. I ended up selling the Octatrack because for some reason it never imprinted on me. I had to always reach for the manual to remind myself how to do something that I have already learned at one point. For me it is by far the least fun Elektron machine to use. It's fun to jam on once you've already put something together using scenes and doing some knob twiddling but actually putting it together is tedious and annoying. The Digitakt is so much more user friendly and intuitive even if it is more limited. The Octatrack has amazing potential and is nuts in the hands of someone who is an OT wizard but I'm just way too impatient and scatterbrained to benefit from it.
and the Roland SP 404 MK2 is far easier and fun to use!
i’ve owned an mkii for a year and a month..
i read the manual over the course of a month and barely grasped my foothold.
the first feature i really latched onto was the infinite re-trig of a sample, and then tweaking the start time at the same time as the re-trig time.
Adjusting the scene crossfader to engage lofi options (whatever the upper right and lower right settings are to about 35 each) and then fading over.. while using a vocal sample creates some fun magic.
the internal recording feature is great. after ive recorded samples off of youtube. and then i layer and do live tweaking. I record and create some new really weird and unique sample.
normalizing seems to be a must because a lot of what i record isn’t loud enough to use consistently with all my other samples..
temporary major con..
when i do normalize a sample..
i can’t play it back without it being too loud for my monitors.. therefor id have to turn down my monitor volume output..
so i end up saving my sample.. and then id assign it to a track and then listen to it and it’s fine.. I havent figured out the problem i’m having with this.
I havent cracked into anything midi with it.
my Audio work is. Jam band with a buddy of mine and we call ourselves Lake Party
there are some vids on my channel. as well as tracks on band camp.
Increase the volume on your recordings?
my device is straight forward left hand side on my desk, I use it primarily for looking TV (sound of the dvbt receiver moves into AB and then opening project just for replaying my TV signal!!!) When I received that goal I was the luckiest alien on earth. I NEVER will sell my Mark One, everyday we look at each other and we find that we fit together as one. My next project will be: finding some white noise from my arturia microbrute, record that and try to make some sounds.(well you are a god, Sir, Respect!!!). And my third project will be a random slicing of a cool drum track from cubase or ableton drum loops, this will open some musical doors, all that because of your cool stuff. Thank you Sir.
As a Model:Samples owner, the Digitakt looks like too little of an upgrade to me. The Octatrack comes next, but I feel like it’s RAM limitations, outlandish storage format, lack of Overbridge and other useful USB integration are too much to justify the price.
But most importantly, having never used one, I feel like it’s too complicated for what it offers, and doesn’t « earn » its complexity.
If there is ever a Mk 3 and it’s just Overbridge and more RAM, I may still get it someday. However, I think a really fantastic news would be a new box with Octatrack functionality (and more!) taking cues from the Digi series in terms of clarity and ease of access.
Anyway, thanks a lot for sharing those points that are great to know before whipping out so much money. The lack of CTRL ALL would really hurt my habits haha.
The most annoying one for me (appart from the ones you've mentioned) is the inability to select a sample destination folder. That drives me insane. Say I have a breakbeat folder in my machine, I then sample a breakbeat from a record, I can't say "put this sample in that folder", it has to be by default in either the project folder or the audio pool. Great. And if I was to think "oh well, I'll just play with it for now and tidy up later when plugged to the laptop" => no no no no, because then the link would be broken for what I have created in the mean time :)
OctaEdit would be the solution but I'll see what comes with V2 before investing.
Other things that I'd like to see :
- The ability to easily chose one of the 4 outputs for each tracks, instead of the studio mode+panning workaround.
- A shortcut to activate or deactivate "quantize live rec"
- Not retrig for midi tracks, other than with the arpegiator
- Being able to play midi trigs in track mode (the same way you can play the audio tracks live by pressing 9 to 16, well this but with midi tracks, next to the audio ones.
Maybe some of these already exists and I just never found them...
- no retrig for midi tracks...are you sure...i thought that was a Digitakt limitation.
@@manne3d AFAIK as I know, there's no retrig per se, as in a proper retrig with two buttons : one for the number of repetition and one for the rate. You can simulate that behaviour with the arpegiator but it's way less straight forward.
@@MarcDupuis50400 Oh, that is a shame...but i guess clogging the one midi port with all that retrig data could have been a problem anyway (esp. since only 1 midi out port). But i am pretty sure i read that the note retrig on midi tracks was a Digitakt limitation. ..(from the many Octatrack vs Digitakt threads i have read)..maybe it was another retrig type (i think there is one in the note nudge page also? (is it Function + left-right arrow?)). But the arp looks like a good option, if it stay tight when modulating the speed.
This sums up why I keep trying to use the OT and end up using a DAW instead 99% of the time. DAWless is supposed to be fun and intuitive.
Youre right. I think an acoustic guitar isnt that fun either if you dont know how to hold and play it, so just keep experimenting with the OT and you will learn more and more about it. i learned a decent amount of features by accident. maxmarcos videos are a great source of info too. best regarss
The OT, is a very challenging and frustrating to say the least. You really made many many great points about this egmatic machine
I have a Analog Keys and love it to death, I bought it the day it was released. It too had a learning curve with the manual being a must. I’ve wanted a Octatrack forever, but when I was ready to buy the MK ii dropped and I decided to wait. Hope the MK III is a actual upgrade or they replace it with something better. I was pretty bummed when the MK ii came out with almost no improvements except cosmetic changes, I thought for sure they would have Overbridge for the MK ii!!!!! That’s why I don’t own one yet, simply the lack of effort on the MK ii. The whole MK ii line for that matter.... Great video 🥇
thank you! re-building the Octatrack from the ground up on a new platform would require a substantial commitment of resources, in many ways it's surprising the Octatrack even exists in the first place
I’m about to sell my OT after 5 years off and on. I love it in many ways, but I hate not using it for a week and forgetting how to do some obscure function that I once knew how to do.
I’ll be running with the Akai Force & ER-301 as my hardware sequencing setup from here on out.
I feel your pain on that one!!
>Akai Force & ER-301
I think those two in the same box would be enough for me to dump the OT as well.
Make sure you look hard at the force before purchasing. Its got a lot of potential if firmware updates are done right, but its very crippled at the moment
@@wakopaco I'll do research but what makes you say it's crippled?
@@robertsyrett1992
Dont remember all the details. I had one earlier in the year, it was bad. Good place to read about it: c.getsatisfaction.com/akai_professional/categories/akai_professional_force
I feel like a basic DB meter in the Mixer page or on the Master channel would help a lot and would not be much to ask, just even a db number that updates a few frames a second would be great.
would be nice, I don't think the LCD screen of the mk1 supports an adequate refresh rate though, and not sure about the mk2 OLED
+1 on your wishlist for upgrades adding a stereowidth option at the AMP menu and a frequencyshifter in the FX. Personally i find the Octatrack very tedious to use but very rewarding when the pre-production is done.
Keep the Octatrackvideos coming!
Another vid cementing you as the elektron "bad boy"! I appreciate how you walk the line of being one of the more interesting content creators using their products while coming across as an enemy
haha, thank you! I think it says a lot about the electronic music hardware niche that simply not being a milquetoast shill automatically equates to 'bad boy' and is somehow viewed as adversarial :D :D :D Often it seems like many people willfully disregard all nuance as they desperately seek to have their purchasing decisions justified and validated by others.
chaotic good
That neighbor amp thing is SO true! It makes not sense to me at all and has tripped me up multiple times. Not to mention the departure from the Monomachine way of FX tracks where it is its own track freely assignable where you have the send play anywhere but have the fx be panned however along with its own track properties(including filter/amp/and track fx of its own) very sad.
Another limitation that always prevents me from going wild with the OT is the limitation of 4 parts/kits per bank. In a machine so full of possibilities, I have to really narrow down which random assortment of configurations are THE parts/kits. Not usable across other banks
Thank you so much for this comprehensive and dense video. You just gave me some ideas to play with some parameters to alter the sound which to my ears often just sounded "not round" enough. (Compared to an MPC 1000 and especially an EPS).
I own and love the Octatrack, but this video is an EXCELLENT criticism of the device. It’s all the little things I wish would be different about it. That said, it’s still a one-of-a-kind device that is second to none when it comes to creative live sample manipulation.
The around 5ms latency using audio thru tracks seems like a limitation that will stop me from using monitoring/mixer with realtime FX on the octatrack...should be like 1-2ms.
Money is what’s holding me back
I got my Octatrack MK1 for under a $1000 CAD on reverb, which isn't exactly "cheap", but is a much cheaper than the mk2
Thanks for the many tutorials. I'm going to pick up a second hand OT MK1 tomorrow. Can't wait! :)
my pleasure, will be making more of them! sounds like you have good taste :D Octatrack is an amazing machine, but you definitely have to be willing to meet it on its own terms and take your time; there's nothing else quite like it
@@maxmarco Thank you! I'm not in a hurry and I know what I'm getting into. One topic at a time and slowly expand my knowledge. Shouldn't be too difficult, just a lot ;)
In my opinion (pretty close to yours) ELEKTRON cheaped out on the MK2:
- the CPU/DSP-power
- cf-card-reader
- small OLED
- no industry standard battery power
- proper pitching-algorithm (CPU/DSP?) and having to re-sample to get more than -12semis is sad af.
- also so sad not being able just to loop some sample-area infinitely without any trigger (beside the first initiating one) interrupting
- another wish would be to take a sample-area and say those are 1,2,3,4, etc. whatever bars and it sets the bpm accordingly or warps this sample-area to the already set BPM (like ableton live does)
- simple and not enough LFOs
...and most of those things just to increase the profit margin, instead of giving us a true legend, but many people would even pay any price up to 3k for a truly uncompromising machine.
I had the MK1 many years ago, but the cf-card-reader broke after using it a couple of times (I didn't switch cards or anything). It took them weeks to repair it and after that I could not trust it any more. The bad pitching/no non-trigger-based-looping and all the other compromises because of weak CPU/DSP made me sell it. It is so close to be legendary, yet so far.
Maybe MK3 will be the real Octatrack?
Great video. The Octratrack leaves so much to be desired but that is also why I love it LOL.
All the pitfalls force you to pre-plan, improvise, go down side roads and focus on whats important
I so so agree about the lack of a gain stage with the neighbor tracks though
Neighbor tracks could have been so much more useful.
They could have also let them be a way to get around the post effect mute thing that people always complain about, but they don't let you mute the sending track either.
-pitch only on octave up and one octave down... no decent envelope section... I would love some kind of dynamic way to create parameter automation between 2 locks and so accurately control the parameters in the sequence.
You just about said it all. I thought I just didn’t know what I was doing so im glad you brought up the points on the fx.....this is the first piece of gear I ever bought that truly intimidated me, and still gives me anxiety, but it’s helped me learn a lot about things. Not sure if it matters in the long run, because it’s suppose to be about making music, but at least it feels rewarding when you figure things out.
Most electronic musical instruments have nowhere near the depth of an actual musical instrument, and true instruments require a significant period of learning and practice before you can attempt to use them to make even somewhat decent music - no one expects to pick up a guitar and start immediately shredding like Eddie Van Halen. Well, maybe some people do, but they're obviously morons :D
I love my OT and have any plans for giving it up, but I've surprisingly found this video particularly interesting in learning things that are likely to avoid, eg. filter and eq issues. Thanks!
my pleasure! I have demo'ed those types of issues here and there in some of my Octatrack info videos as well - ua-cam.com/video/JSRFMsFwRXs/v-deo.html addresses gain/clipping and non-transparent FX, and putting together this video - ua-cam.com/video/c5OiVlGZWiY/v-deo.html - really taught me a lot about some of the weirdness/filth lurking in the reverbs
@@maxmarco what are your thoughts on the Octatrack vs Roland SP 404 MK2? Would love to see you demo the differences
Haha you almost convinced me to sell mine BUT. I have been through the learning pain and I really don't want to miss it's benefits any more, it does work well for the kind of live improvisation stuff I want to do. But you are right, it is very idiosyncratic. Not quite perfect but also uniquely unmatched and good enough. Indeed more IO would be awesome.
My biggest gripe is about having to manually assign recorded samples after recording them. It would cool if you can copy/drop the eight recorded loops into a new pattern with one button press.
That "Assign to Free Flex Slot" command should also select that slot for the current track. Instead I have to hunt it manually.
If you think the Octa has a small screen wait until you feast your eyes on an MK1 Rytm or Analog Four. Oh boy. Also, I think a 'why you shouldn't buy a machinedrum' video is in necessary in order to further balance things out around here ;)
The lack of inputs and outputs is by far my biggest gripe. An Octatrack with 8 in and outs would be so versatile. Or at the very least, an option to use the headphone out as a totally separate out.
I literally have had dreams that Elektron just randomly drops a brand new Octatrack. I want a new model so badly, but alas, it's still the best sampler out there.
Just curious why everybody ignores Akai.
Robert Syrett I think a few reasons. Aesthetics, unresponsive touch screen, and too similar of a work flow to a computer to name a few. Those are my reasons at least. I like the elektron ecosystem and the music they inspire. I love the old mpc’s though.
@@EZBOT_ 1 year later, Akai has released the MPC One with tons of dedicated buttons and added synth engines and linear arranger mode. Elektron has given us a paint job and a sample pack for the same old design. What's weird is I'm not even tempted by the MPC, since putting in the time to get to know the OT it's become irreplaceable.
Interesting video. Thanks. I think I’ll stick with my MPC for now and wait for the Octatrack MK 3 to come out.
Max Marco- You are the glutton for punishment and I always enjoy your depth of understanding and explanations when it comes to the Elektron methodology. Keep up the great and helpful work for those who have the curiosity to approach the Octatrack.
I had a mk1 like 10 years ago when there wasn't much documentation or videos to reference. Reading the manual was quite possibly the most frustrating thing I ever put myself through and I came out with twice the amount of questions than I started with. I sold it pretty quickly.
10 years later, I feel pretty competent with my Rytm Mk2 and I'd like to give OT another chance. But, I've been seeing some cryptic comments lately, so maybe gonna hold and see if a mk3 drops.
do you like the rytm ? i want one or maybe a syntakt (mk2)
The digitakts new 1.5 OS now has slicing and looping functions of the octa so perhaps its worth investigating as an alternative?
@@aikighost I have played with the Digitakt a couple of years ago and I liked it a lot. I read about the new update. I'm actually thinking about trading in the Rytm for a Digitakt for that very reason and using the extra for a couple more Eurorack modules.
I really like the title...it's almost sacrilegious to suggest such mischief about the Octa.....for me an "oh no" pops and I start listening.....as a result another elektron masterclass was offered. Great teaching technic my friend. I believe you are ready for Paetron platform and get something for your effort. As a working class person I understand and value honest work. Young man keep on keeping on.
If were to ask your opinion about a setup are you able to share your two cents?
hehe! I felt a need to bring some balance to the force... :D Thanks much!! I'm happy to share my perspective on a setup - as always these things are very personal though, so my opinion might be irrelevant
@@maxmarco very true. I should figure it out myself and deduce from what worked ....honestly I don't use scene function optimally :)
I view the Octatrack's functions as being a collection of tools for solving musical problems, sometimes they are simple problems, other times they are complicated - no wrong way to use scenes as long as they are helping you get closer to your musical goals
@@maxmarco true...its the realization thru watching demos that cause the issue of the redundancy concern....will figure it out ...thank you. a good weekend to you.
max marco title is a bit click-bait (more than “OT limitations” guess), but the video is worth it :)
You could have mentioned mutes that cut eg the reverb tails.
The step sequencer aspect could have been better explained, and it’s worth mentioning that on Digitone it was improved.
Other limitations: the A1 and A#1 notes used as transport.
No FILL button on mk2 is a shame: the shortcut is stupidly unnatural and different from the other boxes.
Parts are my main grip. All other boxes have Kits and you can have a Kit per Pattern.
So much valuable information in here. Thanks marco!
I always viewed OT as the best compact instrument for techno and ambient music. Especially for techno, that raw sound of OT and artifacts make it sound pretty underground.. and looks too of course (mk1) :) So the features I really would love to have in OT:
1. A setting that makes 8 midi tracks 8 audio tracks. Yes this would require more processing power but we are not always using all the RAM or the effects on all tracks. So sometimes having extra audio tracks just to play short samples would be great.
2. Grouping. Like in DAW. For grouping multiple tracks and then do FX only on those tracks.
3. No kill of reverb tail when muting track.
4. Sidechain parameter for compressor.
Yeah, that's all :) I actually think these things can be done by simply a software update too.
Get a midi controller and controlle amp volume as mute so you are not cutting dly and rvb tails
My biggest gripe about the octatrak is I cannot copy and paste a pattern to a empty pattern spot before switching to it. It’s especially disappointing because this is basic functionality with the pocket operators and volca sample.
definitely want this!!
Had a OT MK2. Tried to replace my Mac with Ableton live for live setup. After a year of rtfm sold it. Not a big deal
The only thing that really annoys me is that the compressor does not have a sidechain feature.. I know ways around this but a true sidechain would be so dope..
Also my knobs are yellow after 12 years of usage and I can’t get new ones..
As someone who has owned a monomachine and Machinedrum and grown to know them fairly well. How hard would you say it would be to learn the Octatrack from that position?
Thanks for a great vid!!
thanks man! In my opinion the initial learning curve of the Octatrack is actually pretty shallow, and especially so if you are familiar with other Elektrons. It's once you really start to realize the possibilities and start digging into the deep functionality that the learning curve suddenly takes a sharp turn towards near-vertical and the potential for frustration and confusion increases dramatically. This is where having a solid mental map of the OT becomes essential in order to troubleshoot/solve issues and you will begin to dig into the manual for nitty-gritty details. I can see some users never really going past that initial shallow learning curve though (and never bothering to open the manual), since even at that level there is so much you can do with OT.
Very easy. It's actually simpler than those devices in my opinion, probably due to the fact that there are fewer possible "machines" a track can be.
@@maxmarco Exactly !
I used the MD for years, and using the OT as a sampler/slicer sound design machine is fun and quite easy.
It's when you want to use the arranger, sample your tracks or compose entirely with it as the center piece that things start to get tricky. A lot of work goes into keeping things organized and trying to fit the limitations
I know this is going to sound silly. But i got it because of the scenes. Absolutely genieus idea and baring copy right laws, i cant see why no other company has copied this idea. I really enjoy the digitakt but the scenes are epic in song structure. I would love an updated 2020 OS upgrade or new OT MK3 with an easier and simpler OS. Keeping fingers crossed.
not silly at all, imo the crossfader + scene functionality is the killer feature of the Octatrack and what ties everything together very nicely - really wish they had put scenes into more products than just OT and Rytm - if they had combined AR and A4 into one do-it-all analog box with lots of performance features I would definitely have one!
Very informative. Excellent and honest advice which really helped me decide. I'm now buying an acoustic guitar.
Nice Vid. You obviously have a lot of knowledge and experience with the Octatrack (way more than me). Do you have any recommendations for alternatives that have stereo capabilities, FX, and a macro control(s) for performance type stuff? Are there any samplers / sample players that tick most of your boxes? Thanks.
this video is just to balance out all the free Octatrack advertisement I provide :D but essentially the subliminal punchline of this video is that I don't currently consider anything to be an alternative, other than perhaps a nice modular case set up with some sweet modular samplers. I got into Elektron coming from modular gear, Octatrack is very much a modular sampler - the only other hardware samplers I've owned (other than Machinedrum UW) are eurorack modules. A modular equivalent to the Octatrack will cost a ton of money and be way bigger! The Octatrack exists in its own class.
If you really want a no-compromises approach to what the Octatrack paradigm can offer, you'll have to re-build the concept in software (I'd recommend max/msp) and make a custom controller for it
@@maxmarco Thanks man. Wow, it is a joy to chat with someone who is so honest and knowledgeable. And you make a great point. I have a 104 hp eurorack specifically designed for one synth voice (loquelic Iteritas) and a line in for PC or microbrute to then feed a bunch of distortion, filter and feedback modules to make things really gritty and dirty. I am in love with the idea of DAWless performances so don't particularly enjoy the idea of an Ableton or laptop based setup. I have a Digitakt and Octatrack, hopefully for creative performances, and I have had a lot of success working on the two together, but more so with the Digi. Coming from a DAW environment (Cubase) I just can't seem to get on with the workflow of the Octa. Things are so far from immediate on the Octa that it kinda feels pointless to try, even though I really want to get into the loop mangling capabilities. I think this is why I really want a simpler loop player with mangling capabilities. Oh, and with un-compromised sound quality, which I now know the Octa doesn't quite respect after watching your video, and reading in forums that the Octa tends to make samples sound worse on default settings. But you are right... for the money, and the physical footprint, the Octa is kinda unmatched. And the other boxes of similar ilk all seem too basic. Cheers man.
they succeeded in making a true instrument with the Octatrack - which also unfortunately means it demands a lot of time investment. It took me about the first 2-3 years to feel legitimately comfortable and even now I'm still always learning something new just about every time I sit down with it
My friend has an octatrack. It’s pretty fricken cool. But I’m happy with integrating my synths with my DAW so it seems a little redundant for my style of working.
this is a great video man, and I agree with 99% what you stated here. I guess most of the OT limitations comes from limited processing power. Still it's one of the best and deepest machines out there, love mine.
And i was so stoked to buy one...😢
Nice analysis! My biggest problem with the OT is what you mentioned about the MIDI tracks being so simple that you can't even record your own playing into it. Not to mention the fact that you're always locked into a pattern-oriented workflow. I wish it had linear sequencing tracks that would let you record for arbitrary amounts of time. I guess that could be mostly solved by simply allowing for patterns that are longer than 4 bars, like 128 bars or something. Then you could use that track-step-length-decoupling (or whatever you call it) feature to set a track to be really long in comparison to the other tracks.
Finally someone with the same reaction to Roland boxes as mine. Thanks :))))
I think it works great as a sampler and the midi sequencing is a bonus. But you are right when you start trying to squeeze the extra features out of it, it starts to get hairy. I love using it but always tell myself it is a sampler and midi sequencer. I really use as a sampler more then a drum machine or any other feature. It has some nice features I really like allot but feel if get a cirklon or a pyramid it be on the chopping block. Tough in allot ways.
Respect. Hats of to the knowledge you deliver in all your vids. Yes, you do have your own style which might putt off a few . . but I am alwasys floored down with how you deliver and share THE “how to...” ...not talking about production, editing, script etc. Superb. If Elektron is looking on for anyone who knows and cares in community and users . . rather then wanna beees, you should be on their payroll already .... I would hire you in a minute. ...... now, I belive I will need a month to get to each of your comments. Q are you sripting your lines or are you talking off your head. Thanks
thanks a lot! for this type of video essay where I talk in front of the camera it's mostly scripted - when I take time to shoot footage I like to be able to do it as efficiently as possible, and it saves on editing time also
Honestly I think I just had a flash back to your reaction about the *roland groove boxes. And fkn yes. Yes same. Even with ppl I respect pushing that product. Happy to have enough experience / general music knowledge to not be swooned by rgb TINY SCREEN. honestly I’m actually curious about how the *oled screen does in daylight. Most underrated video my guy but also niche price points my guy.
I never understood the lack of Midi over USB implementation and therefore you cannot integrat the OT into your DAW beside Audio in
while there are better options for each of its individual functions, it still is a heck of a machine. especially once you understand its concepts and use the sample chain method. the speed with which you can remix your own creations and make its elements exchangeable is mindbogling still.... the sampling resolution is a little underwhelming though, you need external FX and mixing options and you d probably need a tablet with IO and modstep to have proper chords in the mix... i wish some freaks would start coming up with modifications for this before this ingenious approach disappears from the market.
What alternative would you recommend for a sampler that has many modulation capabilities like the Octatrack but lets you arrange your tracks with a separate sequencer or DAW?
not sure if there's anything outside of modular samplers that's comparable, so I actually have to say Octatrack; it has an incredible amount of functions exposed to external MIDI control so there's no need to use the internal sequencer at all
awesome - there's also the needing to clear the sample record buffers each time the OT is turned on, is that just me?
the default behavior of the buffers is that they are cleared when you turn off OT - however it sounds like you have assigned a file to the record buffers, and the OT will load the assigned file to the record buffer when loading the project. You can remove the association between the file and the record buffer by func+clear on the record buffer in the flex slot menu, and I think there's also a clear command in the audio editor file menu. Record buffers are basically just flex slots you can also record into
The other thing is not being able to trigger slices via midi and AFAIK only the single selected sample per track can be triggered.
Not owning a digitakt, I recently saw that it supports locks for sample start/end and program changes, too bad that the octatrack does not have this. The Digitakt also stores mute states and tempi per pattern.
How you feel about the new update? Tempo per pattern finally on the OT
Great video, you're right about the shortcomings. But.....I ain't ever selling my OT!
Octatrack produces very quiet samples, even when driven into "red" in the inputs. That way I have difficulties to re-use the samples or loops elsewhere. I went over to record and slice with MPC1000 and then put it into the octatrack. If its not about time stretching or polyrhythm I tend to stay within the MPC :) Is there a way to record samples at a decent level with the octatrack? (Even the digitakt can do that - but that one lacks even the basic sample editing capabilities of the octatrack such as zoom). Great channel btw. - honest and profound statements from one who really uses the machines.
watching this in 2022. Does the MKII still not have scenes for midi tracks?
Thank you for convincing me not to buy the Octatrack. I will buy a Digitakt instead. I used to own an OT but ended up selling it so I could buy different Elektron gear, the OT gave my nightmares. I must admit, I am still slightly tempted in a masochistic way.
Ok, but what stuff would you recommend instead of Elektrons to drive at least 8 audio an 8 midi tracks? MPCs have many other issues. Maybe PolyEnd Play?
What's holding me back is I already have Model:Cycles, and even though I haven't full learned or explored it yet, I recently bought the Digitone.
I fell down the Elektron's rabbit hole, at first I wasn't sure whether this is for me, and now I have two devices, and I know it won't end here.
So for now I won't be getting new gear until I will learn and use what I already have to it's full potential, and there is a lot to delve into.
By the way now I'm at the stage where I'm not sure whether I need a sampler, but who am I kidding? Octatrack is I what I need... eventually.
I really wish all parameters had a higher resolution to fine tune. I have to use scenes just to get fine increments. It's annoying because obviously the engine is more than capable, just not available on the encoders.
Thanks for this. does it do/handle stereo samples? more menu diving than the other eletkron boxes?
Thanks for this !
I was just about to impulsivly buy it
Hi, sorry for my English. I use Octatrack MK1. When I play live looping, it always compresses or stretches the recorded loops. It always a hindrance. How to disable it? I tried all the settings, it doesn't help! Maybe I didn't quite understand the instructions. Tell me, if you know. Thanks for your videos!
My main hesitation on buying an Octatrack is I can't find a video there gives me a thorough breakdown of the features and precisely what it does besides 'sampler mangler and arranger' comments. So, let me ask a question this way: If the OT is so difficult to use and takes a lot of commitment, what makes it worth the frustration? What are you getting done on the OT that you haven't been able to get done on other devices? I love Elektron gear and have a Digitone and Model Samples, but I haven't gotten the OT yet because I can't figure out exactly WTF it does! lol :)
that's a video I've thought about making, something titled along the lines of 'WTF is the Octatrack??" - none of the videos I've seen explain the overall concept succinctly or effectively to someone that's never used an Elektron - certainly not something easy to do though! The biggest strengths of the Octatrack for myself are that it's very open-ended and modular, making for a very effective electronic music sketchpad, while at the same time it encourages performing your musical ideas - it's designed as an instrument and is not just a production tool.
max marco Make that video! :)
Check out Cuckoo's videos
Update over 1 year later: been a happy OT owner for quite some time. Learning curve is not that bad using Merlin’s Guide to understand it conceptually before digging in. Some of the workflow is tedious and it can be frustrating when wanting to work quickly but it’s worth the ride to expand your ideas to areas they otherwise would have never ventured to.
Not for the sunday musician, it took me years! I do have a question; I keep hearing these morph between a synth and human voice (start as synth ends with human ), how do you make that? is it a feature of high end synth costing fortune? I did try few morphing software but mitigated success. any tips? cool channel!
How much will the OT learning curve be reduced by first learning and mastering MD?
if you're talking MDUW then it should reduce it a substantial amount, but there are still significant differences between the devices as OT goes much deeper and is a bit more abstracted. Octatrack was the first Elektron I bought, but I was able to borrow a friend's MDUW for a few weeks before and although learning OT was still very challenging borrowing the MDUW first definitely helped me get into the 'Elektron mindset' and smoothed out the initial learning curve
Love my Octatrack even though it was steep learning curve compared to my SP 404 MK2. Love it for cool sampler stuff.
I wonder if you have or going to make an update on your vision on the octatrack given the updates to the device.
i wish these boxes came with mystery encoders
Like Zoiks Scoob! Then it could be a total Mystery Machine!
Like the novation circuit. I fucking hated that aspect..
Hey ! Wondering what are your thoughts about the new and latest OS upgrade released recently by Elektron?
brother you are jacked! this gives hope to my goal of balancing my tech-nerd cavedwelling secret lair of music production with BOOSTING UP my physique
just make sure to have some lifting equipment in your cave too, that's what I do 💪
the appeal and the frustration of the OT are one and the same. It is from the frustrations that general new ideas are born... it is truly a mysterious love affair.
Hi great video! You perfectly summed up the entire range of WTF moments I have been experiencing since I got mine 9 months ago. I believe you didn't mention that the OT can't record Direct-To-Disk. I does play back in streaming mode using static machines, but doesn't record in that mode. My Akai S5000 from 1998, (besides having 128 voices of polyphony and velcity layers, great time stretching, 32 parts multitimbral) records 26 minutes in RAM and unlimited size to disk (I have currently 23 hours of stereo 44.1 16 bit recording time left on the internal drive.) I ended up deciding to forget about the midi sequencer at all and got a Pyramid (which has its own limitations but we can expect at least another firmware update). I use the OT as a live looper, and for mangling live sound using scenes (but am bummed by the pickup machines and the automatic BPM adjustment which is too unpredictable to use in concert, and we cannot disable this functionality). So I only use the OT for scenes, and the sequencer for chopping up stuff. Not as a production center, which it is not its primary use, imho. It's more something like a construction set with lots of elements to choose from: use the ones you need, combine them perhaps (that's usually where the WTF journey starts), and don't force yourself to use all of them at once......
Man where are you? Miss your vids and would like your take on the latest OS. I was hoping a stereowidth parameter would be added to the Amp and a frequencyshifter to the fx section but that'll be the day i guess. So how do you like the anniversary OS?
With all the limitations I have never been more inspired to make tunes on anything else.
Love u max, donde quiera que estes