A number of people have asked if they can help support my channel - I don't have any adverts on my channel (and don't intend to) but if anyone wishes to help defray the expenses of making these videos in some small way, they can buy me a cup of coffee! www.buymeacoffee.com/MarkJohnMaguire paypal.me/MarkJohnMaguire?country.x=GB&locale.x=en_GB
Another banging video my friend. Great story. My uncle worked in the Texas oil fields back in the late 70s, and he met that guy Mack Herring. He said that guy was a human-shaped hole in the universe. I remember that phrase vividly. He said that guy simply wasn't there, even when he was standing right in front of you.
You gave this poor girl far more compassion than she ever got from her peers. Aside from her killer, there is a long held standard amongst teenage boys and men that if a girl doesn’t actively object to being used, than it’s alright to use her, even if that consent was gained by tricking her into thinking she’d receive some sort of love and affection from it. And then it was required to look down on her. She had so much to offer, but because she wasn’t cynical enough to not trust boys, she was deemed worthless. Thank you for showing compassion to this girl. You set a better example, not for those willing to kill her, but for those bystanders that do nothing.
I imagine Betty in the moment before her death, desperate for attention and affection, thinking the cold and emotionally distant boy she’s in love with won’t actually pull the trigger. “He’ll look at me while pointing the gun and then throw it down saying ‘I just can’t do it, no matter how much you want me to! I love you! I love you so much I could never hurt you!’” Don’t know, of course, but that’s what popped into my head. I can see her asking other students to kill her for attention and to give the impression that she was serious about it- so as to goad the boy and set up the dramatic scene at which she died. The wrong girl fell for the wrong boy. She said the wrong thing and he did the wrong thing.
As heinous as Herring's actions were, it's the community's readiness to aid and celebrate him that should've deterred anyone from setting foot in Odessa for a long, long time.
Makes you wonder, doesn't it? Not least whether for a psychopath growing up in such a sick society and their treatment of Betty for being 'different' they are not as culpable. Yet as usual they saw nothing wrong in the behaviour. Strange place, Hicksville, Baptist America. I kept thinking 'Stepford'
So. This guy blows a girl’s head off, Disposes of the body, gets caught, shows cops where the body is, recovers the body…. Told cops how he did it (premeditated)…and gets away Scott free? In ‘61. A mere 62 years ago. That’s very recent.
It's a sobering reminder of just how much society has changed, and how much it hasn't, especially in the south... (For the record I grew up in Texas, I'm not bashing the state or it's people, just expressing my opinion.)
Astonishing case. I'm a 76-year-old true crime reader from Texas, and I've never heard of this. You did a very good job of grasping the circumstances in a locale so distant from your own in place and culture.
Thank you very much indeed! I did my best and spent a lot of time reading about the social and cultural mores of mid-20thC US life! I intended to say something in my intro along the lines of - "I apologize to any of my friends on the other side of the pond if I have misunderstood some aspect or misused a term... etc." !! Many thanks again.
@@TheyGotAwayWithMurder Mr Maguire, the only thing that wouldn't sound right to a local is that west Odessa is/was a good side of town. It's working middle class. Basically it goes like this here: east is our upper crust, north is older, established citizens, west is blue collar, and south Odessa is the lowest economic area. We also have a community outside the city limits called West Odessa, just to keep it interesting.
@@dagmoon Many thanks for putting me right - when I come to write this up I will ensure I amend it accordingly - and will note the social nuances of the various parts of Odessa!
@@TheyGotAwayWithMurder I, too, am American; although I live on the east coast near Philadelphia. The rural/small town south was and still is to a certain degree, a vastly different place than it is elsewhere. Either way, you did a fantastic job as usual and the work you put into your videos definitely shows.
ONE of my favorite things about this channel is the part where he "breaks it down" for us. With his discernment, he clears away confusion in regards to the facts and the weight and relevance of things. He is always respectful of the victim etc. I also love the music, drawings, photos and his voice too!
Sir, your narrations are second to none! What an incredibly sad story. Elizabeth J. Williams was not only a victim of a sociopath, but a victim of the cultural taboos and times in which she lived. I can’t help but wonder what she would have accomplished had she lived beyond her small little world.
Thank you, Mark, for this bone chilling account of what happened in 1961 in Texas. I was 13 years old at this time and not living in Texas. My dad was in the USAF and we were stationed at Harlingen AFB in 1958 but transferred away in 1960. This is such a horrible and, thank goodness, unusual murder to hear about happening in those fairly innocent days. Mack truly was a psychopath and I think your idea of what may have really happened with and to Betty is more than likely correct. You did your usual wonderful job of telling this story.😊
Thank you, Margaret - it has been very windy here, also - but I have just noticed it is silent now: the wind has dropped. Earlier it was blowing the smoke back down my chimney and I had to open a window it got so bad - which defeats the object of lighting a fire in the first place! :)
How horrible for her parents and her siblings. To lose a loved one in such a cruel and tragic way and being denied the justice they truly deserved. So sad.
I think it’s easy to underestimate how badly sexually active females were treated in that place and time. Other women would have treated her with hostility and self-righteous revulsion, while boys would want to spend time with her, but be ashamed of associating with her in public. Even in the 70s and 80s, girls who were simply rumored to be “fast” were treated as trashy and of less value. I think it might have been a big factor in this case, but things were far too repressed and misogynistic to for someone to stand up and speak openly on her behalf. This is so sad, and I wish I had been her aunt or older sister.
That is a very astute & accurate comment. It certainly reflects my memories of life in the North of England. So many girls simply tried..."Too hard" to find their life partner..... the result being, they ended up with the worst possible. Leading to a life of drudgery and abuse at the hands of the worst possible man for them. It's still happening. (Maybe worldwide)..... But I find it all so sad....in this day and age....60+ years later. I could weep.
Yes, I remember my father pointing out females as easy girls or loose women, and calling them awful nicknames - even actresses like Elizabeth Taylor! It was all so unnecessary, and made us daughters far more curious! 🤔
This lasted even into the'70's when I was in high school. I'm Latina and had a curvaceous figure event when younger. So I had a bad reputation even while being chaste. Now however, things are just as bad with girls, even tiny ones, singing vile lyrics and dressing inappropriately. They are not taught self-respect or manners. That is a problem. Just look around.
Another great video. You are right on in your analysis. As I listened, I kept thinking: the key issue is "why would this guy have agreed to do this?" He wanted to kill someone and this was his chance - so he did it! That seems very obvious, and the verdict in this case is shameful and baseless. For her part, it is so sad that she played this game. We all do stupid things when we are young, and this was extremely stupid. Wish she had lived past it.
The fact he hid her body says it all. If he thought this wasn't wrong why hide the body. The fact he had rope and weights shows it was premeditated. Also he showed no compassion to her, why didn't he or someone else tell her parents she was asking to be killed / that she wanted to die. I know back then Girls like her were considered to be bad girls and it was ok to use these bad girls by boys for their own gratification, it was also ok to deride and be quite nasty to them. His total lack of compassion and empathy is horrifying.
"Be careful what you wish for" runs through my mind as I listen to this. Nonetheless, how many times, present and past, have we seen murderers with no remorse- so much so, to the point of, in their dysfunctional mind, a certain degree of justification for the unimaginable?
if he hid her while he was "temporarily insane" then he knew what he was doing was wrong ...and goes against what he said "i still thought it was right at the time".
Mr. Maquire, your episodes are expert from the subject matter, the writing, the illustrations and narration of wonderful articulation. You enrich this member of your audience like no others. This case tragic and you ask all the correct questions.
what a tragic waste of a real writing talent and obviously delightful girl. Moral: Don’t make dramatic gestures and enlist friends, because you might accidentally pick a psychopath. -Off to embroider that on a pillow. Thank you yet again, for another beautifully written and narrated episode!
This is the saddest and largest miscarriage of justice I have heard of to date. I cannot understand how Mack could have lived with himself all those years let alone go through with murder. He benefited from the good old boy network.
I don't know how you slipped a new one in on me without my noticing,but here we are. I've been expecting to hear about Sir Harry Oakes since you always seem to post new ones about what i have been thinking about recently. 😂 Excellent, as usual 💯
I am watching all of your stories over and over again , as I can’t get enough …Hope we will be fortunate enough to listen to you for many years to come .. 🎉😊
Such a sad story and you tell it with compassion, thank you. I am glad you also many times bring up the prejudices of the "upright citizens", which must have played a huge role in these verdicts. What is totally alright and even admired behaviour in boys/men, is immoral and condemning behaviour for girls. There is still much of this attitude even today. - Greetings from your Finnish fan
Like attracts like, they were both outsiders, and everything is so intensely serious when you are a teenager, someone female should have been there for her to talk with during this time of anxiety and desparation! He wasn't insane, he really considered her worthless!
Yes so true. Her death is a testament to the utter despicable behaviour of society in making women feel shame for having the same sexual desires as men . If society had been different she would be alive, and he would have murdered someone else at some stage and shown to be the psychopath he obviously was.
I just love your content.. really really do! Did you get your book in audio form yet? I know some of us were kinda hoping that you were going to narrate it 😁😁 I haven’t caught any more news on it, (I might have just missed it somewhere) so I’m asking 😅 I’d love to get your book that way.. I haven’t had time to “read” in ages, but I manage to listen to YT and audio books a good bit instead.. Thanks for all the incredible work you put into these for us to enjoy, I know it’s considerable time just in research, nevermind the writing and then video creation.. your work is appreciated! And it’s awesome! ATB 😊 From Western MA
Thank you, Ruth - I have actually recorded the first book - 'The Murder of Madame X: The Limeslade Mystery, 1929' - but have to work out how to get uploaded onto a suitable platform... As soon as I get a free couple of days I will investigate!
@@TheyGotAwayWithMurder Oh AWESOME!! Thanks so much! I’m really looking forward to it 😁😁 I’m sure a bunch of us are.. since we just love listening to you already 😊 lol Keep us posted!
Dear MJM, I arrived here after 1,763 people had viewed! I remember being the first to view some of your wonderful tales. So thrilled many others have joined the family. We salute you. And, do you take milk with your coffee 😊 (rhetorical).
Thank you, Peter - indeed, I recall there were so few visitors to my channel for the first few months, I used to think "I'm talking to myself"! I am grateful for your support then, as I am now. :)
What came across is the amount of work you put into this episode. It requires the effort in expressing the right moral sentiments because his (Mack's) peers, the legal system and his town surely didn't at the time and allowed him to get away with murder. A person cannot excuse their own murder in advance. At most it's a disturbed act which follows on from their own distress or lack of balance at the time. More likely Betty wanted to have a romantic connection with Mack and this was a disturbed way of getting it. All told it's a very, very sad case, with the loss of life of a young woman with so much to live for had it not been for a romantic entitlement with someone who took advantage of her distress when at her lowest ebb.
Mack resembles a young version of the actor Farley Granger. My thoughts on this are based my career as a high school teacher. Adolescents sometimes live in a somewhat unreal world of their own making, often rotating around the normal preoccupation with how others view them. It is difficult to explain some of the extreme things they do unless we stop using our adult standards of normal behavior. A highly intelligent and emotional girl, finding value through drama and acting roles, tries to draw others into her strange fantasy. Of course, most of them will laugh it off as another dramatic game from Betty. The sad thing was that Betty found a friend who lacked the mental and emotional ability to see absurdity in her game.
@@johnnyonenote376 I meant the actor himself. In my mind I was visualizing him in Strangers On A Train, but not as that character. An excellent movie! Rope is good too. Well, all of Hitchcock's movies are great.
@@ImCarolB Ah, I see. Well, I suspect in another setting you and I could have a fabulous conversation on Hitchcock films...hard for me to pick a favourite really - as you say, they are all great.
I watched this story on ‘Netflix’ I think. Very sad. Thank god we don’t still have those views that women are easy and men are just sowing their wild oats and patted on the back. Well told, it’s nice to have another view on the outcome of the trial. Thank you.
Another well-told tale! I know my prejudices are showing, but this seems like a very Texas story. I agree that Matt was given the benefit of the doubt by one and all because Betty was such a social deviant for that time and place. It is a shame that her family wasn't able to do more for their troubled daughter than pray. Matt comes off as a pretty cold-hearted person. BTW, your best drawing in the video is the fore-shortened view of Matt aiming the shotgun at us. Kudos Mark.
It was clearly murder but she didn't help her case by asking people to kill her and the judges decision to only have one opinion rendered about him was appalling. It was a case of the judge deciding the case before evidence of the opposite could be presented
It does not matter if she asked people to kill her, mercy killing is still not legal in a lot of countries today, let alone back then! They have prosecuted husbands and wives for doing it.
I think he wanted her out of the way, she had become annoying and he couldn't play the "respectable" field while Betty could lure him easily and had no qualms probably to interrupt him while with "respectable" girls. I'm glad Betty wrote the letter and his reputation did not recover but I'm sure she wanted his Declaration beyond anything else.
@@alisonj9533 Maybe later on in life. I know what I heard at the end of the video so that would be a contradiction. I sure hope that he did just the same.
These stories are well told and fascinating in that they delve into the workings of the human mind of all those involved in each tragedy. Even so, these tales give me no pleasure. They are depressing.
Another great narration. I believe that Betty a troubled girl was desparate to be given demonstrations of love. She appears to be an object, because of her social class, in a country that describes itself as a classless egalitarian society, which is demonstrately not. She is being rejected because she is from the wrong side of the tracks. By asking boys to kill her, she was wanting the boys to break down refusing to carry out the deed in a outpouring of the love that she craved in the best traditions of Hollywood. Her main target, Mack was indifferent to her. She failed to realise that his mental state and predisposition to murder her was stronger than any emotional feelings to her. I'll also suggest he was incapable of any emotions. He was infact what I would suggest a Zombie.
She allowed her infatuation with him send her down a river of no return. Had she just moved on and taken up with any of the other boys who were friendly towards her and toned down her attention seeking she most likely would have been fine. It's a heart breaking story.
I believe that Betty achieved her goal in disturbing Mack by dating another boy, but not in the way she intended. I think he considered her beneath himself and merely exploited her. He was likely incensed that she, a social pariah, embarrassed him publicly. Yes, dating another girl was a total rejection of her. But Betty was the one who provided the opportunity for him to express what hostility he truly felt for her & her attempt to make him jealous. IMO, it is the more likely reason he complied. I believe it was a bigger offense to Mack because he thought so little of her & he felt public humiliation, being bested by someone he, & the rest of his peers, had so low opinion of. He certainly had the ability to conceal compassion extremely well. Why not hostility?
I suppose the poor girl thought that Mack Herring would turn around at the last moment and tell her that he loved her and could not do without her. I am sure she never thought things would end as they did.
I don`t think he was temporally insane, I think he was permanently insane. You summed it up when you said he was a psychopath. What a tragic story. Just because she had loose morals, doesn`t mean her life was less important than anyone else`s. You told that story so well, with lots of detail. Thank you so much for the time put into making these videos.
That's where the language around these things gets tricky. I agree with you that he was likely a psychopath and therefore insane in the sense that we typically use the word. At the same time I don't think he was insane in terms of the law. At the time Texas (and virtually every other state) defined sanity (in the context of criminal law) by the standard of the M'Naghten rule. In simple terms, did he understand what he was doing? And did he understand that it was wrong? I think it's pretty clear that he did understand that he was killing her and obviously was aware that it was wrong (he took steps to conceal the crime and lied about it). Therefore I think he was sane enough to be found guilty. I wish there was a more precise vocabulary we could use, I think it would make these kinds of cases much simpler or at least more straightforward..
Matt hmmm. I don't think he was insane at all. Being a psychopath is far more common and not all of them are killers. Betty Williams was truly suicidal there is a plant in this region would have done the job. It's very common and easily grown but extremely poisonous. It's much harder to get a person to do the job.. Matt is a psychopath and to me he wasn't insane. As for killing animals it is not unusual practice in poor families in Texas. Meat back then was a luxury and families hunted to off set the cost of food. Odessa TX isn't the mostly desert and shrub land.
I got a mature content, age confirmation window to watch this video. It also put up a window for su ici de consoling info. Just a heads up. This was a first for any of your videos and I've probably watched nearly all of them by now. Also great video yet again.
Thank you - yes, I know. I found it a little puzzling, as I have dealt with the subject before in cases... Perhaps it was the mention of the word once too often? I don't know!
Such a sad case. Poor Betty, she was deluded that she could control a psychopath by playing Juliet, in a way. It's also a tale of small town America closing in on itself, to protect a favoured son; not the first time it had happened I am sure.
So DAMN true. They choose Jack loved Betty because She was a , Slut"? That town and its Fefensebof Macknthe sociopathic killer. If I hadvtobtravel a million miles out of my best I would not crossv1 inch ofvthevstatevofvTexas. Not much has changed there since the Alamo in attitude. Sad story and justice denied.
I feel sorry for the parents, having their daughter dissected in the court like that it must have been painful, Betty was intelligent pretty and naïve thought that Mack would make a grand gesture and save her, unfortunately this was not the case. He wanted her gone and planned everything, even getting her to write that note, he was treated like a super star while Betty was trashed in court 😩
Poor girl. It's so easy at that age to become obsessed over a boy and misjudge the situation. It takes time to develop a sense of proportion, and know that life goes on and there will be other boys, but she never got the chance. It's bizarre how the town rallied behind someone who had shot someone dead under those circumstances. Surely no one really believed he was insane.
Insane or not....he indeed got away with Murder. If he was insane...he should have been incarcerated. If he wasn't it was 1st Degree Murder. Weird how, in a so-called classless society (as the USA is keen to remind us)....it was lamentably obvious this town had a "class division"....."Wealth-v-poorer people." Makes you wonder what the racial divisions were like. ("Colour Division" I suppose....white people of many races seem to do OK......eventually.)
This case is appalling. I don’t like to reveal my background but in this case I will make an exception. I was a combat medic, I joined the military to pay for medical school and went on to become a trauma surgeon. The letter she wrote, statements she made where a plea for help. She was a typical teenage girl, their moods change on a daily bases. If he had any compassion he would have gotten help for her. She had her whole life ahead of her. He could have help her yet he chose to take her head off with a 12 gauge shotgun. He’s a cold blooded killer. What a waste of a young girls life. I was born in 1961 the year her tragic life was taken. Thank you for sharing this story but what a sad waste of a confused teenager! I knew a girl in high school, she was going through a difficult time, very depressed and she used to cut herself and had thoughts of suicide. I was able to get her in contact with people that could help her. I certainly didn’t help her commit suicide and she is a happy woman today married with two children and 2 grandchildren.
Many thanks for sharing your background, John - I quite agree with you. So many teenagers go through difficult times yet with a little help from their friends they come through these and go on to live fulfilling lives. I think Betty could have had every opportunity of following the same course, had she been given the chance to.
Mack Herring was NOT insane. He just wanted his problem girlfriend to go away. She was so desperate for his attention and affection that she wanted to die. What a creep he is to have done this to her. Her poor parents.
Yeah, I doubt Betty thought Mack would go through with it, but would drop the gun, fall on his knees, take her in his arms, kiss her passionately and tell her how much he loved her. Yeah, that fantasy came to an abrupt and opposite end. Mack was sane and probably happy he got rid of that pest that kept chasing him. He probably never expected to get caught, either, and thought the letter/note she wrote would exonerate him if he was.
This is so sad. Betty was such an intelligent and vivid personality. She was like many teenagers, self dramatising, but did she really want to die? Mack was definitely a psychopath, killing her and then dragging her out of the pond like that. We only have his view of what happened between them. I think he simply wanted to get rid of a difficult ex girlfriend. This is another master class, Mark, and I really enjoyed your retelling of this disturbing case. I feel full of indignation at the waste of a young life and angry that Mack got away with such a cold blooded murder.
Thank you very much, James - it is especially nice that you recognize it! I know it takes me a great deal longer than others to produce my works! Thanks again.
Well, this one was extraordinary Mark. "...Deprived of the power of applying logic..." Really? One psychiatrist's opinion (Grice) that a person can have a temporary episode of insanity and then recover so quickly to normality doesn't pass muster. The prosecution then being denied the opportunity to put forward another psychiatrist's alternative opinion on the basis that the defense was saying that Herring could not be assessed now as he had recovered ? I think it is Grice and presiding Judge Olsen who were deprived of the logic here.
I kept thinking of things like Stepford and Lord of the Flies. Betty was the black sheep , the one that didn't follow the herd, the one that might shame it Herring, apart from his love of killing things, fitted right in. hey needed to justify his behaviour, to justify their own.
Oh what a treat from the best storyteller with the great voice. This time from my favorite era, way 1960s. This made my day I can't wait to relax and listen!
A number of people have asked if they can help support my channel - I don't have any adverts on my channel (and don't intend to) but if anyone wishes to help defray the expenses of making these videos in some small way, they can buy me a cup of coffee! www.buymeacoffee.com/MarkJohnMaguire
paypal.me/MarkJohnMaguire?country.x=GB&locale.x=en_GB
I know you don't have advertisements and I love it. If I want to watch more commercials than the actual show, then I'll watch TV 😂
Your channel is top notch and your class, plus integrity is impressive. I, gladly, intend to "buy you a cup, or cuppa" -as you English say.
You should add adverts, it's a small thing to support your channel.
🎉 bought coffees for you, I appreciate all you do and thoroughly enjoy these essays without adverts. Thank you.
Another banging video my friend. Great story. My uncle worked in the Texas oil fields back in the late 70s, and he met that guy Mack Herring. He said that guy was a human-shaped hole in the universe. I remember that phrase vividly. He said that guy simply wasn't there, even when he was standing right in front of you.
You gave this poor girl far more compassion than she ever got from her peers. Aside from her killer, there is a long held standard amongst teenage boys and men that if a girl doesn’t actively object to being used, than it’s alright to use her, even if that consent was gained by tricking her into thinking she’d receive some sort of love and affection from it. And then it was required to look down on her. She had so much to offer, but because she wasn’t cynical enough to not trust boys, she was deemed worthless.
Thank you for showing compassion to this girl. You set a better example, not for those willing to kill her, but for those bystanders that do nothing.
“…Without a scintilla of compassion.” So beautifully stated. You’re such a gifted storyteller, Mark. Thank you for posting this case.
Thanks for listening - you are very kind!
I imagine Betty in the moment before her death, desperate for attention and affection, thinking the cold and emotionally distant boy she’s in love with won’t actually pull the trigger. “He’ll look at me while pointing the gun and then throw it down saying ‘I just can’t do it, no matter how much you want me to! I love you! I love you so much I could never hurt you!’” Don’t know, of course, but that’s what popped into my head. I can see her asking other students to kill her for attention and to give the impression that she was serious about it- so as to goad the boy and set up the dramatic scene at which she died. The wrong girl fell for the wrong boy. She said the wrong thing and he did the wrong thing.
Agree! she just wanted to be loved.😢😢😢😢. I saw here in Brazil🥲🥲🥲🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷 Very very sad!!😢 poor girl!😢😢😢
As heinous as Herring's actions were, it's the community's readiness to aid and celebrate him that should've deterred anyone from setting foot in Odessa for a long, long time.
Makes you wonder, doesn't it? Not least whether for a psychopath growing up in such a sick society and their treatment of Betty for being 'different' they are not as culpable. Yet as usual they saw nothing wrong in the behaviour. Strange place, Hicksville, Baptist America. I kept thinking 'Stepford'
Mr Maguire you always tell the best stories, thank you. Poor Betty, God bless her🙏
Thank you, Finola!
So. This guy blows a girl’s head off, Disposes of the body, gets caught, shows cops where the body is, recovers the body…. Told cops how he did it (premeditated)…and gets away Scott free? In ‘61. A mere 62 years ago. That’s very recent.
It's a sobering reminder of just how much society has changed, and how much it hasn't, especially in the south...
(For the record I grew up in Texas, I'm not bashing the state or it's people, just expressing my opinion.)
Astonishing case. I'm a 76-year-old true crime reader from Texas, and I've never heard of this. You did a very good job of grasping the circumstances in a locale so distant from your own in place and culture.
Thank you very much indeed! I did my best and spent a lot of time reading about the social and cultural mores of mid-20thC US life! I intended to say something in my intro along the lines of - "I apologize to any of my friends on the other side of the pond if I have misunderstood some aspect or misused a term... etc." !! Many thanks again.
@@TheyGotAwayWithMurder Mr Maguire, the only thing that wouldn't sound right to a local is that west Odessa is/was a good side of town. It's working middle class. Basically it goes like this here: east is our upper crust, north is older, established citizens, west is blue collar, and south Odessa is the lowest economic area. We also have a community outside the city limits called West Odessa, just to keep it interesting.
@@dagmoon Many thanks for putting me right - when I come to write this up I will ensure I amend it accordingly - and will note the social nuances of the various parts of Odessa!
@@TheyGotAwayWithMurder :) Then your essay will be perfect even all the way across the pond.
@@TheyGotAwayWithMurder I, too, am American; although I live on the east coast near Philadelphia. The rural/small town south was and still is to a certain degree, a vastly different place than it is elsewhere. Either way, you did a fantastic job as usual and the work you put into your videos definitely shows.
ONE of my favorite things about this channel is the part where he "breaks it down" for us. With his discernment, he clears away confusion in regards to the facts and the weight and relevance of things. He is always respectful of the victim etc. I also love the music, drawings, photos and his voice too!
Ah - thank you very much, Darlene. It is nice to know such things are appreciated! :)
Sir, your narrations are second to none! What an incredibly sad story. Elizabeth J. Williams was not only a victim of a sociopath, but a victim of the cultural taboos and times in which she lived. I can’t help but wonder what she would have accomplished had she lived beyond her small little world.
Thank you very much, Aracelis - it occurred to me also, how different her life could have been in different circumstances...
I agree 100%. I also appreciate his sketches. Excellent work 👍🏻
@@TheyGotAwayWithMurder yes, there is such sadness in an unfulfilled life especially in one so young.
Amazing talent, should have been a narrator all his life, but probably has many other strings to his fiddle.✊
@@julielevinge266 he’s amazing that’s for sure.
Fantastic...I didn't expect a new video so soon. Thanks Mark. Got my bedtime story for tonight!!
I hope you like it, Michael! :)
@@TheyGotAwayWithMurder I'm sure I will. I was just listening to your last video last night.
Enjoy and have a good night 😊
Thank you, Mark, for this bone chilling account of what happened in 1961 in Texas. I was 13 years old at this time and not living in Texas. My dad was in the USAF and we were stationed at Harlingen AFB in 1958 but transferred away in 1960. This is such a horrible and, thank goodness, unusual murder to hear about happening in those fairly innocent days. Mack truly was a psychopath and I think your idea of what may have really happened with and to Betty is more than likely correct. You did your usual wonderful job of telling this story.😊
A storm blowing here in Ireland ,and a new tale from an old friend, what more could a caillin ask for 🇮🇪❤️🇮🇪
Thank you, Margaret - it has been very windy here, also - but I have just noticed it is silent now: the wind has dropped. Earlier it was blowing the smoke back down my chimney and I had to open a window it got so bad - which defeats the object of lighting a fire in the first place! :)
How horrible for her parents and her siblings. To lose a loved one in such a cruel and tragic way and being denied the justice they truly deserved. So sad.
I think it’s easy to underestimate how badly sexually active females were treated in that place and time. Other women would have treated her with hostility and self-righteous revulsion, while boys would want to spend time with her, but be ashamed of associating with her in public. Even in the 70s and 80s, girls who were simply rumored to be “fast” were treated as trashy and of less value. I think it might have been a big factor in this case, but things were far too repressed and misogynistic to for someone to stand up and speak openly on her behalf. This is so sad, and I wish I had been her aunt or older sister.
That is a very astute & accurate comment. It certainly reflects my memories of life in the North of England.
So many girls simply tried..."Too hard" to find their life partner..... the result being, they ended up with the worst possible.
Leading to a life of drudgery and abuse at the hands of the worst possible man for them.
It's still happening. (Maybe worldwide)..... But I find it all so sad....in this day and age....60+ years later. I could weep.
Yes, I remember my father pointing out females as easy girls or loose women, and calling them awful nicknames - even actresses like Elizabeth Taylor! It was all so unnecessary, and made us daughters far more curious! 🤔
This lasted even into the'70's when I was in high school. I'm Latina and had a curvaceous figure event when younger. So I had a bad reputation even while being chaste.
Now however, things are just as bad with girls, even tiny ones, singing vile lyrics and dressing inappropriately. They are not taught self-respect or manners. That is a problem. Just look around.
Another great video. You are right on in your analysis. As I listened, I kept thinking: the key issue is "why would this guy have agreed to do this?" He wanted to kill someone and this was his chance - so he did it! That seems very obvious, and the verdict in this case is shameful and baseless. For her part, it is so sad that she played this game. We all do stupid things when we are young, and this was extremely stupid. Wish she had lived past it.
Thank you, Paul - I agree with all you say here.
The fact he hid her body says it all. If he thought this wasn't wrong why hide the body. The fact he had rope and weights shows it was premeditated. Also he showed no compassion to her, why didn't he or someone else tell her parents she was asking to be killed / that she wanted to die. I know back then Girls like her were considered to be bad girls and it was ok to use these bad girls by boys for their own gratification, it was also ok to deride and be quite nasty to them. His total lack of compassion and empathy is horrifying.
Mr Maguire should narrate a lotta other stuff.
His voice is most pleasing to the ear. 🤩
Soft Scouse.
Thank you very much - I would if I had the time!
"Be careful what you wish for" runs through my mind as I listen to this. Nonetheless, how many times, present and past, have we seen murderers with no remorse- so much so, to the point of, in their dysfunctional mind, a certain degree of justification for the unimaginable?
Only channel on UA-cam that I have watched every single video of.
Wow - that is wonderful to hear, Tina! Thank you. :)
Foolish Histrionic young girl messed eith the wrong Narcissist 😢
Your Chanel is unique as you present a documentary with a beautiful language it takes time, effort and cost you deserve every respect and support
Thanks a lot, Dina - such comments as your make it worthwhile putting the effort in.
@@TheyGotAwayWithMurder thank you Sir by the way the theme music is great 👍
Thank you kindly sir. I just love hearing you cover these cases,
Thank you!
if he hid her while he was "temporarily insane" then he knew what he was doing was wrong ...and goes against what he said "i still thought it was right at the time".
Thank you for another great narration Mark.
Glad you enjoyed it, Shiloh.
@@TheyGotAwayWithMurder 🙏🏾
You have a very natural voice that is very easy on the ear, which embellishes your stories and storytelling. I thoroughly enjoy them. Thx!
If this not plain corruption or perhaps the must stupid legal precedings and trials. How this creep got away with it is beyond me
Mr. Maquire, your episodes are expert from the subject matter, the writing, the illustrations and narration of wonderful articulation. You enrich this member of your audience like no others. This case tragic and you ask all the correct questions.
Thank you once again, Bill, for your wonderful comment!
I have heard a couple of other people talk about this case, but you definitely gave me a different perspective on Mack.
That is nice to hear - many thanks!
what a tragic waste of a real writing talent and obviously delightful girl.
Moral: Don’t make dramatic gestures and enlist friends, because you might accidentally pick a psychopath.
-Off to embroider that on a pillow.
Thank you yet again, for another beautifully written and narrated episode!
Great 9bservation. Kibsterr very clear of Fake people and people who have no 😮feelings" empathy. Very Sad force family. I hoped they movedcl away.😢
Many thanks, Peri!
Your narration is absolutely brilliant. Many thanks....regards from Rome, Italy.
This is the saddest and largest miscarriage of justice I have heard of to date. I cannot understand how Mack could have lived with himself all those years let alone go through with murder. He benefited from the good old boy network.
Your productions are very well written, researched and presented. Excellent work!
Thank you very much, Jenna!
I don't know how you slipped a new one in on me without my noticing,but here we are. I've been expecting to hear about Sir Harry Oakes since you always seem to post new ones about what i have been thinking about recently. 😂 Excellent, as usual 💯
Thank you, Steve - Sir Harry Oakes is certainly underway, and I expect to cover it this year!
I am watching all of your stories over and over again , as I can’t get enough …Hope we will be fortunate enough to listen to you for many years to come .. 🎉😊
The contents of your podcasts are brilliant - the best on you tube. I've watched them all at least three times!
Absolutely superb.
Thank you very much indeed!
Such a sad story and you tell it with compassion, thank you. I am glad you also many times bring up the prejudices of the "upright citizens", which must have played a huge role in these verdicts. What is totally alright and even admired behaviour in boys/men, is immoral and condemning behaviour for girls. There is still much of this attitude even today. - Greetings from your Finnish fan
A new TGAWM video is a cause for celebration! Thank you
Thank you, Beth!
Like attracts like, they were both outsiders, and everything is so intensely serious when you are a teenager, someone female should have been there for her to talk with during this time of anxiety and desparation! He wasn't insane, he really considered her worthless!
Yes so true. Her death is a testament to the utter despicable behaviour of society in making women feel shame for having the same sexual desires as men . If society had been different she would be alive, and he would have murdered someone else at some stage and shown to be the psychopath he obviously was.
Thank you Mark! Love these old cases!
Glad you like them, Tara - thank you!
Another great video! Please keep 'em coming 🙂
Thank you! Will do!
I just love your content..
really really do!
Did you get your book in audio form yet?
I know some of us were kinda hoping that you were going to narrate it 😁😁
I haven’t caught any more news on it, (I might have just missed it somewhere) so I’m asking 😅
I’d love to get your book that way.. I haven’t had time to “read” in ages, but I manage to listen to YT and audio books a good bit instead..
Thanks for all the incredible work you put into these for us to enjoy, I know it’s considerable time just in research, nevermind the writing and then video creation..
your work is appreciated! And it’s awesome!
ATB 😊
From Western MA
Thank you, Ruth - I have actually recorded the first book - 'The Murder of Madame X: The Limeslade Mystery, 1929' - but have to work out how to get uploaded onto a suitable platform... As soon as I get a free couple of days I will investigate!
@@TheyGotAwayWithMurder Can't wait for the audio book........LOVE your voicing of these stories.
@@TheyGotAwayWithMurder
Oh AWESOME!!
Thanks so much!
I’m really looking forward to it 😁😁 I’m sure a bunch of us are.. since we just love listening to you already 😊 lol
Keep us posted!
I remember hearing a policeman saying, regarding insanity pleas..." would they do it if there was a police man beside them, do they tear up money"
Hello, Mark! I hope you're doing well! Thank You for another Excellent video!
Thank you very much, Renee - I am doing well and hope you are also!
What treat just got off work and this will be my before bed 🛌 story that’s for your wonderful work!
Thank you very much, Bill!
Dear MJM, I arrived here after 1,763 people had viewed! I remember being the first to view some of your wonderful tales. So thrilled many others have joined the family. We salute you. And, do you take milk with your coffee 😊 (rhetorical).
Thank you, Peter - indeed, I recall there were so few visitors to my channel for the first few months, I used to think "I'm talking to myself"! I am grateful for your support then, as I am now. :)
Thank you for your great research and presentations of these crimes, I always look forward to All of your videos! 😊❤
Thank you Mark, looking forward to your next upload!
Well done, Mark. I’ve heard about this case before but your telling is somehow more chilling.
Thank you very much - I am glad you liked it.
What came across is the amount of work you put into this episode.
It requires the effort in expressing the right moral sentiments because his (Mack's) peers, the legal system and his town surely didn't at the time and allowed him to get away with murder.
A person cannot excuse their own murder in advance. At most it's a disturbed act which follows on from their own distress or lack of balance at the time. More likely Betty wanted to have a romantic connection with Mack and this was a disturbed way of getting it.
All told it's a very, very sad case, with the loss of life of a young woman with so much to live for had it not been for a romantic entitlement with someone who took advantage of her distress when at her lowest ebb.
oh boy!! TWO IN A MONTH! So excited- off to get a glass of St Emillion 82, sit by the fire and listen!
Oh you are a lady of sophisticated tastes! Thank you, Peri!
Damn.
Moral: Be careful whom you challenge.
I think the moral is don't commit murder whether or not the person insists they want to die.
Great Commentary,Thoughts & Words.!!!
Thankyou !!!
Thank you very much indeed!
Most Welcome.
I always.. Enjoy.. 😀
Just Me.. 🐸👋👋🕺
If only MJ McGuire had been the prosecutor in these cases, not one of them would have *_Got Away With Murder!_*
Love your work. Thank you
Thank you for your stories.
My pleasure - thank you, Jess.
Excellent video ... thank you for producing and posting it.
Glad you enjoyed it, Rod - and thank you.
It IS cold!
Outstanding! A study in freewill vs destiny.
Thank you
Many thanks, Deb!
I still never understand why there were girls who dated him and went to court in support of him and regarded him as a sex symbol.
Morality is often weak in small towns because of weak, unimaginative leaders; therefore, conformity is strong
RIP, beautiful girl!
She didn't think he'd do it. He did. Got away with it!
Mack resembles a young version of the actor Farley Granger. My thoughts on this are based my career as a high school teacher. Adolescents sometimes live in a somewhat unreal world of their own making, often rotating around the normal preoccupation with how others view them. It is difficult to explain some of the extreme things they do unless we stop using our adult standards of normal behavior. A highly intelligent and emotional girl, finding value through drama and acting roles, tries to draw others into her strange fantasy. Of course, most of them will laugh it off as another dramatic game from Betty. The sad thing was that Betty found a friend who lacked the mental and emotional ability to see absurdity in her game.
Do you mean Farley Granger himself, or the parts he and John Dall played in Hitchcock's film 'Rope' ?
@@johnnyonenote376 I meant the actor himself. In my mind I was visualizing him in Strangers On A Train, but not as that character. An excellent movie! Rope is good too. Well, all of Hitchcock's movies are great.
@@ImCarolB Ah, I see. Well, I suspect in another setting you and I could have a fabulous conversation on Hitchcock films...hard for me to pick a favourite really - as you say, they are all great.
I watched this story on ‘Netflix’ I think. Very sad. Thank god we don’t still have those views that women are easy and men are just sowing their wild oats and patted on the back. Well told, it’s nice to have another view on the outcome of the trial. Thank you.
Another well-told tale! I know my prejudices are showing, but this seems like a very Texas story. I agree that Matt was given the benefit of the doubt by one and all because Betty was such a social deviant for that time and place. It is a shame that her family wasn't able to do more for their troubled daughter than pray. Matt comes off as a pretty cold-hearted person. BTW, your best drawing in the video is the fore-shortened view of Matt aiming the shotgun at us. Kudos Mark.
Thank you very much, Beth - and for the compliment on the point of view shotgun drawing!
thank you. so excited listen tonight. btw: utube states 0 Comments - wrong.
Oh yes - you are right... I don't believe it is my fault!
Thank you
It was clearly murder but she didn't help her case by asking people to kill her and the judges decision to only have one opinion rendered about him was appalling. It was a case of the judge deciding the case before evidence of the opposite could be presented
It does not matter if she asked people to kill her, mercy killing is still not legal in a lot of countries today, let alone back then! They have prosecuted husbands and wives for doing it.
Good Ole Texas, eh?
I think he wanted her out of the way, she had become annoying and he couldn't play the "respectable" field while Betty could lure him easily and had no qualms probably to interrupt him while with "respectable" girls. I'm glad Betty wrote the letter and his reputation did not recover but I'm sure she wanted his Declaration beyond anything else.
It was said in the video that he remained popular amongst his friends and classmates.
@@yvettefortinkeyser2222 he lost his standing within the community
@@alisonj9533 Maybe later on in life. I know what I heard at the end of the video so that would be a contradiction. I sure hope that he did just the same.
Love this channel
Thank you!
Yes a new video!
These stories are well told and fascinating in that they delve into the workings of the human mind of all those involved in each tragedy. Even so, these tales give me no pleasure. They are depressing.
Another great narration. I believe that Betty a troubled girl was desparate to be given demonstrations of love. She appears to be an object, because of her social class, in a country that describes itself as a classless egalitarian society, which is demonstrately not. She is being rejected because she is from the wrong side of the tracks. By asking boys to kill her, she was wanting the boys to break down refusing to carry out the deed in a outpouring of the love that she craved in the best traditions of Hollywood. Her main target, Mack was indifferent to her. She failed to realise that his mental state and predisposition to murder her was stronger than any emotional feelings to her. I'll also suggest he was incapable of any emotions. He was infact what I would suggest a Zombie.
She allowed her infatuation with him send her down a river of no return. Had she just moved on and taken up with any of the other boys who were friendly towards her and toned down her attention seeking she most likely would have been fine. It's a heart breaking story.
Yayy new video
Thank you, Federico - I hope you will enjoy it!
👍
Edit: This case has always infuriated me. I can't imagine the hell her parents went through.
I believe that Betty achieved her goal in disturbing Mack by dating another boy, but not in the way she intended. I think he considered her beneath himself and merely exploited her. He was likely incensed that she, a social pariah, embarrassed him publicly. Yes, dating another girl was a total rejection of her. But Betty was the one who provided the opportunity for him to express what hostility he truly felt for her & her attempt to make him jealous. IMO, it is the more likely reason he complied. I believe it was a bigger offense to Mack because he thought so little of her & he felt public humiliation, being bested by someone he, & the rest of his peers, had so low opinion of. He certainly had the ability to conceal compassion extremely well. Why not hostility?
I suppose the poor girl thought that Mack Herring would turn around at the last moment and tell her that he loved her and could not do without her. I am sure she never thought things would end as they did.
I don`t think he was temporally insane, I think he was permanently insane. You summed it up when you said he was a psychopath.
What a tragic story. Just because she had loose morals, doesn`t mean her life was less important than anyone else`s.
You told that story so well, with lots of detail. Thank you so much for the time put into making these videos.
Thank you very much, Margaret - I agree with you.
That's where the language around these things gets tricky.
I agree with you that he was likely a psychopath and therefore insane in the sense that we typically use the word.
At the same time I don't think he was insane in terms of the law. At the time Texas (and virtually every other state) defined sanity (in the context of criminal law) by the standard of the M'Naghten rule. In simple terms, did he understand what he was doing? And did he understand that it was wrong?
I think it's pretty clear that he did understand that he was killing her and obviously was aware that it was wrong (he took steps to conceal the crime and lied about it). Therefore I think he was sane enough to be found guilty.
I wish there was a more precise vocabulary we could use, I think it would make these kinds of cases much simpler or at least more straightforward..
Matt hmmm. I don't think he was insane at all. Being a psychopath is far more common and not all of them are killers. Betty Williams was truly suicidal there is a plant in this region would have done the job. It's very common and easily grown but extremely poisonous. It's much harder to get a person to do the job.. Matt is a psychopath and to me he wasn't insane. As for killing animals it is not unusual practice in poor families in Texas. Meat back then was a luxury and families hunted to off set the cost of food. Odessa TX isn't the mostly desert and shrub land.
Why on earth hide a body he felt no guilt over if he really was out of his mind? Cold-blooded slaughter, open and shut case.
I got a mature content, age confirmation window to watch this video. It also put up a window for su ici de consoling info. Just a heads up. This was a first for any of your videos and I've probably watched nearly all of them by now. Also great video yet again.
Thank you - yes, I know. I found it a little puzzling, as I have dealt with the subject before in cases... Perhaps it was the mention of the word once too often? I don't know!
@@TheyGotAwayWithMurder Most likely, the algorithm is plain weird sometimes.
Such a sad case. Poor Betty, she was deluded that she could control a psychopath by playing Juliet, in a way. It's also a tale of small town America closing in on itself, to protect a favoured son; not the first time it had happened I am sure.
So DAMN true. They choose Jack loved Betty because She was a , Slut"? That town and its Fefensebof Macknthe sociopathic killer. If I hadvtobtravel a million miles out of my best I would not crossv1 inch ofvthevstatevofvTexas. Not much has changed there since the Alamo in attitude. Sad story and justice denied.
Whatever Betty said she wanted it still came
down to murder by him
I always thought that she asked him in the hope he would see her value and she called his bluff, but he wasn't bluffing.
I always look forward to your stories .You always go the extra mile to get so much information on the cases you cover thank you 🇨🇦
I appreciate that - thank you, Patricia!
Mac was an ahole He saw Betty as a problem So he took this opportunity to rid himself of this problem
I feel sorry for the parents, having their daughter dissected in the court like that it must have been painful, Betty was intelligent pretty and naïve thought that Mack would make a grand gesture and save her, unfortunately this was not the case. He wanted her gone and planned everything, even getting her to write that note, he was treated like a super star while Betty was trashed in court 😩
Unfortunately she unknowingly called a psychopath's bluff, RIP Betty
Love your videos, always excited to see of your videos pop up in my subs!
Thank you, Jennifer - I am delighted you like them!
Poor girl. It's so easy at that age to become obsessed over a boy and misjudge the situation. It takes time to develop a sense of proportion, and know that life goes on and there will be other boys, but she never got the chance. It's bizarre how the town rallied behind someone who had shot someone dead under those circumstances. Surely no one really believed he was insane.
Insane or not....he indeed got away with Murder. If he was insane...he should have been incarcerated. If he wasn't it was 1st Degree Murder.
Weird how, in a so-called classless society (as the USA is keen to remind us)....it was lamentably obvious this town had a "class division"....."Wealth-v-poorer people."
Makes you wonder what the racial divisions were like. ("Colour Division" I suppose....white people of many races seem to do OK......eventually.)
This case is appalling. I don’t like to reveal my background but in this case I will make an exception. I was a combat medic, I joined the military to pay for medical school and went on to become a trauma surgeon.
The letter she wrote, statements she made where a plea for help. She was a typical teenage girl, their moods change on a daily bases. If he had any compassion he would have gotten help for her. She had her whole life ahead of her. He could have help her yet he chose to take her head off with a 12 gauge shotgun. He’s a cold blooded killer. What a waste of a young girls life.
I was born in 1961 the year her tragic life was taken.
Thank you for sharing this story but what a sad waste of a confused teenager!
I knew a girl in high school, she was going through a difficult time, very depressed and she used to cut herself and had thoughts of suicide. I was able to get her in contact with people that could help her. I certainly didn’t help her commit suicide and she is a happy woman today married with two children and 2 grandchildren.
There is obviously more to this girl’s background & homelife. If we knew all, there might be obvious beginnings to her “racy” behavior.
@@johnsonjohnson4725 yes, I thought the same thing. It would have be beneficial to understanding her.
Take care and stay safe.
Doc
Many thanks for sharing your background, John - I quite agree with you. So many teenagers go through difficult times yet with a little help from their friends they come through these and go on to live fulfilling lives. I think Betty could have had every opportunity of following the same course, had she been given the chance to.
If you don’t want an animal to suffer, you would not shoot it in the first place!!
My favorite channel on YT
That is so kind of you - thank you, Bella!
You have good taste Bella
Mack Herring was NOT insane. He just wanted his problem girlfriend to go away. She was so desperate for his attention and affection that she wanted to die. What a creep he is to have done this to her. Her poor parents.
Yeah, I doubt Betty thought Mack would go through with it, but would drop the gun, fall on his knees, take her in his arms, kiss her passionately and tell her how much he loved her. Yeah, that fantasy came to an abrupt and opposite end. Mack was sane and probably happy he got rid of that pest that kept chasing him. He probably never expected to get caught, either, and thought the letter/note she wrote would exonerate him if he was.
This is so sad. Betty was such an intelligent and vivid personality. She was like many teenagers, self dramatising, but did she really want to die? Mack was definitely a psychopath, killing her and then dragging her out of the pond like that. We only have his view of what happened between them. I think he simply wanted to get rid of a difficult ex girlfriend. This is another master class, Mark, and I really enjoyed your retelling of this disturbing case. I feel full of indignation at the waste of a young life and angry that Mack got away with such a cold blooded murder.
Many thanks - I share your indignation, I assure you!
What a lovely comment.
A cold blooded killer got away with murder due to the social understandings of 1950s - 60s America
You are the most hard working man in the true crime business!
Thank you very much, James - it is especially nice that you recognize it! I know it takes me a great deal longer than others to produce my works! Thanks again.
Woo-hoo! Just got the notice....can't wait to watch this tonight! Thanks!
Well, this one was extraordinary Mark. "...Deprived of the power of applying logic..." Really? One psychiatrist's opinion (Grice) that a person can have a temporary episode of insanity and then recover so quickly to normality doesn't pass muster. The prosecution then being denied the opportunity to put forward another psychiatrist's alternative opinion on the basis that the defense was saying that Herring could not be assessed now as he had recovered ? I think it is Grice and presiding Judge Olsen who were deprived of the logic here.
I completely concur with you Johnny!
@@TheyGotAwayWithMurder Mind you, that is a rather unfortunate photo of Grice isn't it. Doesn't quite look the full ticket does he Mark...
I kept thinking of things like Stepford and Lord of the Flies. Betty was the black sheep , the one that didn't follow the herd, the one that might shame it Herring, apart from his love of killing things, fitted right in. hey needed to justify his behaviour, to justify their own.
Oh what a treat from the best storyteller with the great voice. This time from my favorite era, way 1960s. This made my day I can't wait to relax and listen!
Many thanks indeed, Michael - I do hope you enjoy it!
I wonder how much Grice was paid for his "temporary insanity" nonsense.