I own and operate over 20 of these locks. I have yet to come across a single one that contains this metal lever, which allows a magnet to bypass the lock. So as far as I'm concerned, this is a much-hyped defeat of this lock, which doesn't really exist.
This will not work on models made after 2010. Non-ferrous materials are used in the newer locks. Also, this will only work on the 1041 locks. Not 1011s or 1021s.
Bill we have alot of these locks where I work and literally just today I was searching for videos on how to open them because I've already opened every other lock I could find and I come home and bammm there you are to save the day once again awesome man !
Oh lawd, I'm learning how to defeat a Kaba Simplex, and I get directed to a Bosnian Bill video. :) How great. Haven't been here in years. Thanks for all the great videos. I know I'm going to learn something here soon.
I have fitted and changed the combination on so many of these locks, I couldn't even guess at the number but I didn't know that could be done, thanks Bill.
I have rebuilt and repaired tens of thousands of these, and I have only seen two that have this part. Both of them were special function locks. They have a "passage" function knob on the inside plate. ..
Bill - just a little more information on this lock.... This only works on models made before 2010. since then they have ised stainless steel for this plate that is non ferris and non magnitic so tis will NOT work on newer models. Also KABA has sent out thousands of upgrade kits to fix older units with the stainless steel plate.
+Wayne Winton So then all you would need is a small battery operated electromagnet that is pulsed on and off to cause the flag to have an induced eddy current as well and the trick would still work even if the new metal is non magnetic since it would still conduct electricity.
+Papa Gleb I have seen it. as well as Tobias video showing the same basic concept. his video and lawsuit caused kaba to make the stainless steel replacement part.
I've never picked a lock before, yet I found myself watching atleast 5 hours of your videos the past few days. Definitely getting a set of Sparrows kick starter and I've got a few masterlocks lying around. Definitely will not buy those for security from now on or kwikset. I'm anxious to feel the tensioning.
That flexible tab that moved when you placed the magnet there is installed only when you have a bypass function on the lock. A thumb turn on the inside plate fits into the oblong hole and when turned it allows the outside to be in passage mode. It is generally not installed. I always check for the factory default combo as many times the customer doesn't set it. Or try 135, 531 or any three button combo as people get lazy using this lock.
Thanks Bill, First time I've actually seen this "magnet attack". I believe Kaba, due to lawsuits etc, have changed this component to "non magnetic". However there's millions of the original versions out there .....Regards, Brian.
+LynxSnowCat . Thanks for the link, I'd heard of this method ages ago, but until Bill actually showed it, I'd never seen it happen. Some cheap "home" safes with solenoid locking can also be compromised in the same way. Regards, Brian.
We did a security assessment at a major Washington DC university, I used the magneto to test 8 doors with the KABA lock, it worked on three but the magnet is so powerful it will grab the door, if it's metal, and will proved very hard to get off the door (it tends to grab the metal door, especially if the lock has the brass finish. It oworks so keep the fingers clear!
The Sparrows magnet has a pulling power of 95 pounds and on their web site a cut-away shows that the "sticky" part of the magnet is on the side. Harbor Freight sells magnet item number #36904 for $9. It has 150 pounds of "sticky", and is about 8 inches long and 1 inch thick and two inches high. Probably would do just as well on these locks. ALSO I use it when I drop a small nail or screw on the floor that I cant see to pick up, this magnet finds it., Also picks up roofing nails from the gravel driveway. Bob L
I have a 3" round by 1.5" thick N52 magnet. I put it in a leather sheath I made because all the socks I used to wrap it in just got eaten up. The leather has last several years of fairly regular use. The extended sides and handles I incorporated into the sheath makes it a lot easier to move it around and remove it from steel.
Technically, if you don't have the magnet, couldn't you just drill a small hole on the side and pull that lever thing without grinding the whole thing?
Wrap the magnet in electrical tape or heat shrink, save the magnet , save the door finish, and make it easier to clean metal from it. Lastly, makes it easier to remove
Is it possible or wrong ideal for a company to put a simplex door combination lock on the outside of the building if someone was to figure out the code and get inside? Has it ever happened before? Just curious one of the guys here at my job saw some reconstruction going on and they noted they be putting a simplex door combination lock on the outside for certain employees to get in
Product of Canada (2010). I think that this design is older than I am, and at the time they justified allowing this vunerability on the assertion that powerful magnets would remain too expensive for criminals to have.
Does only work on the unicans that have that bypass lever on the combination sleeve? I worked on a ton of these, and have only seen that one time. I believe it comes with the ones that have the option to leave the door unlocked.
Removing the steel "Flag" as he calls it, and the magnet will no longer unlock the lock. That part is to make it work like a passage lock, and it is not needed. It can be very easily lifted out and removed and will not affect the lock and the push buttons will operate normally.
Thanks for the tip! I was thinking of asking The manufacturer’s to replace the parts with a non magnetic stainless but your idea will be easier because I don’t have the passage option on mine.
Hi Bill, I never heard the term “insecure side” used in security. We use Exterior vs Interior; and locked side vs inside are the two I have seen over over 30 years. The word insecure has a totally different meaning, as in worrisome.
Watch out for metal doors! That thing will stick like you will not believe, sock or glove may not help. Many current locks are protected and this magnet is sort a little late into the field.
Does anyone know if this applies to the 6200? They're still being sold for north of $250 and the listings I find claim it's "vandal resistant" but I don't know if that's addressing this specific flaw.
So they need to swap out that flag with stainless steel and the magnet trick will no longer work. In any case, I'd love to see how it manages the combinations you describe. I assume it's completely mechanical.
Just found your channel and been watching your videos , Never knew anything about picking locks before but now I kind of want to try it ! How hard / expensive is it to get into as just a weekend hobby kind of thing ?
Cool trick. Don't really want to be dubbed as a grammar nazi but I do believe the reverse side of this lock would be the unsecured side not the insecure side. Unless of course it was anxious or unsure of itself.
that will only work on the models that have a passage function. (knob on the inside that can be turned to keep door unlocked from outside)... in 14+ years I've only seen 2 or 3 out of 200 or so.
Bill, there's a similar lock used in the Titan Gun Safe pistol vault except it doesn't have the side pivoting lever, and has a small knob you turn after entering the combo. It retracts a shaped plate into a short end. Can you or LPL review this safe? I asked him/you for a review on it on one of his videos as well.
@@danielgoodman3578 Sure, but before you do that you might want to look at other people's reviews on UA-cam, especially some of the "gun" channels. You might find the answer you are looking for without having to go into debt.
+johnny blaze hi Johnny, i got one from ebay, a rare earth neodymium magnet for about £5. it's about the same size, maybe slightly thinner but seriously powerful nonetheless....works a treat and shit loads cheaper than sparrows are selling them :)
Duhhhh. Because I'm WEARING my socks? Jeez. And my OTHER pair (yes, I have TWO pair) is in the laundry. 😁 Seriously, I ended up using one of my wife's old hose. That does work pretty well, you're right!
I have been in the alarm business for 40 years. Like all products there is always room for improvement and this has been done. You have amateurs and professionals in the business. It all depends on who you choose and how much you want to spend. Consumers would spend $99.00 to protect their $100,000.00 + cars. Then they wonder why it was stolen. I have installed residential and commercial high security systems and they are extremely expensive. You get what you pay for. Just remember, in the state of Illinois and most other states you must be licensed by that state to sell, service and install security systems. In Illinois it's the IDFPR that monitors alarm company's. You will be arrested and charged with a class x felony if you get caught. Do your homework! One last comment, a true professional burglar does three jobs on average in his lifetime.
Jeff Moss it is commonly known to locksmiths and maybe criminals. Hardly anybody else I think. Maybe people who registered their locks were notified. Small businesses, churches etc all over the place still have these locks in their original form!
Never saw a Simplex mechanical pushbutton lock you could use a number more than once. You can use combination of numbers but not a number more than once.
I can only imagine that those who didn't like this video are those who use this lock for themselves or their businesses...OR the company themselves. Naturally, I suppose. Stay legal guys. Not worth exploiting this type of information for use that'll wind you up in jail or prison.
Should say Kaba Simplex lock with passage mode defeated with magnet. It's just a bit misleading because this will only work on the passage mode model and most Kaba 1000 lock installations don't require a passage mode so the bracket isn't there..
The part that the magnet is moving is called the chamber release. It is used to put the lock in bypass mode. He either added that part to the lock later or removed parts from the back cover that would prevent the chamber release from moving under magnetic force.
+Papa Gleb In bubble wrap or some foam. That is also how they ship them The magnetic force drops exponentially with distance. Most modern electronics don't mind magnetism much, btw.
+Papa Gleb In bubble wrap or some foam. That is also how they ship them The magnetic force drops exponentially with distance. Most modern electronics don't mind magnetism much, btw.
+Papa Gleb Large neodymium magnets are stored with foam or rubber or wood on all sides, and then it has a steel plate on top and a steel plate on bottom (a few centimeters apart). This kind of short-circuits the magnetic circuit trough the metal plates). An all of this is in a wooden crate (or a metal one.. it would work as a magnetic short circuit even more)
You know the codes are all the same when it's coming out of the box if they didn't change the code from Factory it's the same every other lock under series I'm not telling you the combination but I know it cuz I had to do it at work everyday to get into work
+Sub Ripper This one should work, for about $12. www.banggood.com/N52-40-x-40-x-20mm-Strong-Rare-Earth-Neodymium-Magnet-Square-Block-Magnet-p-981280.html
Kaba didn't like this video...
Where can I buy this magnet? Everywhere I go it’s out of stock.
I own and operate over 20 of these locks. I have yet to come across a single one that contains this metal lever, which allows a magnet to bypass the lock. So as far as I'm concerned, this is a much-hyped defeat of this lock, which doesn't really exist.
@@feger481 I think Kaba changed the design long time ago. The one in the video is quite old.
This will not work on models made after 2010. Non-ferrous materials are used in the newer locks. Also, this will only work on the 1041 locks. Not 1011s or 1021s.
Bill we have alot of these locks where I work and literally just today I was searching for videos on how to open them because I've already opened every other lock I could find and I come home and bammm there you are to save the day once again awesome man !
Oh lawd, I'm learning how to defeat a Kaba Simplex, and I get directed to a Bosnian Bill video. :) How great. Haven't been here in years. Thanks for all the great videos. I know I'm going to learn something here soon.
These used to be everywhere when I was a kid! I miss seeing them
I have fitted and changed the combination on so many of these locks, I couldn't even guess at the number but I didn't know that could be done, thanks Bill.
I have rebuilt and repaired tens of thousands of these, and I have only seen two that have this part. Both of them were special function locks. They have a "passage" function knob on the inside plate. ..
Correct
Bill - just a little more information on this lock.... This only works on models made before 2010. since then they have ised stainless steel for this plate that is non ferris and non magnitic so tis will NOT work on newer models. Also KABA has sent out thousands of upgrade kits to fix older units with the stainless steel plate.
+Wayne Winton So then all you would need is a small battery operated electromagnet that is pulsed on and off to cause the flag to have an induced eddy current as well and the trick would still work even if the new metal is non magnetic since it would still conduct electricity.
Well if you make a video that would be great but I don't think that would work
+Wayne Winton I read a great article by Tobias about this entire issue and the class action law suit. I'll try to find a link.
+Papa Gleb I have seen it. as well as Tobias video showing the same basic concept. his video and lawsuit caused kaba to make the stainless steel replacement part.
+Wayne Winton I didn't get to see the vid for obvious reasons but his article sure opened my eyes. He is one interesting and powerful guy.
I've never picked a lock before, yet I found myself watching atleast 5 hours of your videos the past few days. Definitely getting a set of Sparrows kick starter and I've got a few masterlocks lying around. Definitely will not buy those for security from now on or kwikset. I'm anxious to feel the tensioning.
That flexible tab that moved when you placed the magnet there is installed only when you have a bypass function on the lock. A thumb turn on the inside plate fits into the oblong hole and when turned it allows the outside to be in passage mode. It is generally not installed. I always check for the factory default combo as many times the customer doesn't set it. Or try 135, 531 or any three button combo as people get lazy using this lock.
100% correct
Funny. We have two of this where I work on the same building. Code is 513
Thanks Bill, First time I've actually seen this "magnet attack". I believe Kaba, due to lawsuits etc, have changed this component to "non magnetic". However there's millions of the original versions out there .....Regards, Brian.
+Brian Hignett more info: www.thesidebar.org/insecurity/?p=761
+LynxSnowCat . Thanks for the link, I'd heard of this method ages ago, but until Bill actually showed it, I'd never seen it happen. Some cheap "home" safes with solenoid locking can also be compromised in the same way. Regards, Brian.
We did a security assessment at a major Washington DC university, I used the magneto to test 8 doors with the KABA lock, it worked on three but the magnet is so powerful it will grab the door, if it's metal, and will proved very hard to get off the door (it tends to grab the metal door, especially if the lock has the brass finish. It oworks so keep the fingers clear!
The Sparrows magnet has a pulling power of 95 pounds and on their web site a cut-away shows that the "sticky" part of the magnet is on the side. Harbor Freight sells magnet item number #36904 for $9. It has 150 pounds of "sticky", and is about 8 inches long and 1 inch thick and two inches high. Probably would do just as well on these locks. ALSO I use it when I drop a small nail or screw on the floor that I cant see to pick up, this magnet finds it., Also picks up roofing nails from the gravel driveway. Bob L
UA-cam needs a “love” button
I have a 3" round by 1.5" thick N52 magnet. I put it in a leather sheath I made because all the socks I used to wrap it in just got eaten up. The leather has last several years of fairly regular use. The extended sides and handles I incorporated into the sheath makes it a lot easier to move it around and remove it from steel.
changing the combo is very ez on these. great video bill
Brilliant spend a fortune on these expensive locks just to be defeated by a strong magnet!! thanks for sharing
Easy fix. Ask Kaba for non magnetic stainless replacement part! Bingo!!!
your videos are so great very helpfull. I am a bigner in lock picking and your videos help me a lot thank you buddy
I get my sick kicks off for this kind of knowledge xD
Technically, if you don't have the magnet, couldn't you just drill a small hole on the side and pull that lever thing without grinding the whole thing?
+Boris Kozo had the same idea. should also work and it is faster than grinding
A good way to counteract is contacting Kaaba and ask for a non magnetic stainless or brass replacement part! Problem solve!
that`s a rare earth magnet bill , cool video
I LOVE that magnet. I’ve got 2 of them but can’t seem to get them apart.
Wrap the magnet in electrical tape or heat shrink, save the magnet , save the door finish, and make it easier to clean metal from it. Lastly, makes it easier to remove
Is it possible or wrong ideal for a company to put a simplex door combination lock on the outside of the building if someone was to figure out the code and get inside? Has it ever happened before? Just curious one of the guys here at my job saw some reconstruction going on and they noted they be putting a simplex door combination lock on the outside for certain employees to get in
Product of Canada (2010). I think that this design is older than I am, and at the time they justified allowing this vunerability on the assertion that powerful magnets would remain too expensive for criminals to have.
Goated intro
hahhahaha saw this trick on a defcon video
amazing how simple some of the solutions to these locks are
Thanks Bill, great video you always have great info. take care.
thanks you just taught someone how to break in my house lol
00:25 - "But they all look pretty much the same, and they look the same."
Uh huh.
Does only work on the unicans that have that bypass lever on the combination sleeve? I worked on a ton of these, and have only seen that one time. I believe it comes with the ones that have the option to leave the door unlocked.
I have work on 1000 series as old as the early seventies and have never seen that piece of metal. In any case kaba corrected that flaw a while back.
Thank you sir
This also only works on simplex locks with the passage kit. Most (in my experience) do not have this.
Exactly. I was going to post that myself.
@@jclinton5 Yes correct on locks with passage mode only.
This metal flag is not there on other locks.
Removing the steel "Flag" as he calls it, and the magnet will no longer unlock the lock. That part is to make it work like a passage lock, and it is not needed. It can be very easily lifted out and removed and will not affect the lock and the push buttons will operate normally.
Thanks for the tip! I was thinking of asking The manufacturer’s to replace the parts with a non magnetic stainless but your idea will be easier because I don’t have the passage option on mine.
I was wondering about these,,,thanks again bill
I wonder if they already revised the simplex locks to prevent this? Does part# 101126d41 also do this?
Will only work with a lock that has the passage option. Unless you can show us otherwise ?
Great Video Bill
What Pound is that magnet 🧲 rated at??
Also great video thank u
Nice demo thanks
Hi Bill, I never heard the term “insecure side” used in security. We use Exterior vs Interior; and locked side vs inside are the two I have seen over over 30 years. The word insecure has a totally different meaning, as in worrisome.
1:29 - “...this is the insecure side...” - I’m quite sure all of your locks have an insecure side! ;)
I wonder if you can protect it by puttng a reverse field magnet on the flag that will repel instead of being attracted?
Watch out for metal doors! That thing will stick like you will not believe, sock or glove may not help. Many current locks are protected and this magnet is sort a little late into the field.
It's interesting because this lock didn't have the passage function on the back plate but it did have that lever on the chamber
They come from the factory that way. Just remove or tie down that part.
Would this magnet work on Alarm Lock Trilogy T2?
That's ingenious!
Does anyone know if this applies to the 6200? They're still being sold for north of $250 and the listings I find claim it's "vandal resistant" but I don't know if that's addressing this specific flaw.
could you try and see if a neodymium hard drive magnet will do the same thing?
Are most of these locks nowadays made of aluminum?
So they need to swap out that flag with stainless steel and the magnet trick will no longer work.
In any case, I'd love to see how it manages the combinations you describe. I assume it's completely mechanical.
Just found your channel and been watching your videos , Never knew anything about picking locks before but now I kind of want to try it ! How hard / expensive is it to get into as just a weekend hobby kind of thing ?
Cool trick. Don't really want to be dubbed as a grammar nazi but I do believe the reverse side of this lock would be the unsecured side not the insecure side. Unless of course it was anxious or unsure of itself.
I wonder if they made the piece out of brass now?
ihave one made in 2003 with a lever handle , and it wont work on that one. only the ones you demonstrted
Cool !!
Bill, does that work with any other types of locks??
Any other tricks you can share with us ??
Kaba changed the design to eliminate this vulnerability years ago.
Yes, but if security managers were too lazy to make the retrofit to prevent it, then it still works.
What I would like to know is what's the minimum pulling strength the magnet must have in order for this to work?
324 Yektapuzules, no less. Heck, how am I supposed to know or measure THAT? Try asking Sparrows how much their Magneto exerts.
Well, bugger. I have these on "secure" areas in work because their electronic locks were so shoddy. Every day's a school day.
that will only work on the models that have a passage function. (knob on the inside that can be turned to keep door unlocked from outside)... in 14+ years I've only seen 2 or 3 out of 200 or so.
weird thing is that yours doesn't have the passage 'lug' on the the back page... goes in where that hole is.
Is the simplex 9600 line this easy to defeat?
Bill, there's a similar lock used in the Titan Gun Safe pistol vault except it doesn't have the side pivoting lever, and has a small knob you turn after entering the combo. It retracts a shaped plate into a short end. Can you or LPL review this safe? I asked him/you for a review on it on one of his videos as well.
Dan, I’d love to but at $369 it is well beyond my budget, sorry.
@@bosnianbill Understood. If I assume the CC debt for the good of those who want these for their beds, cars, etc, would you do it?
@@danielgoodman3578 Sure, but before you do that you might want to look at other people's reviews on UA-cam, especially some of the "gun" channels. You might find the answer you are looking for without having to go into debt.
@@bosnianbill I'll look more.
I was trying to avoid buying this along with every thing else sparrows sells but I think I may give in
+johnny blaze hi Johnny, i got one from ebay, a rare earth neodymium magnet for about £5. it's about the same size, maybe slightly thinner but seriously powerful nonetheless....works a treat and shit loads cheaper than sparrows are selling them :)
+crispey bear that's really good to know! you may have just saved me a bundle thanks
+johnny blaze my pleasure :)
Bos, why don't you just put it in a sock? more efficient than a rag
Duhhhh. Because I'm WEARING my socks? Jeez. And my OTHER pair (yes, I have TWO pair) is in the laundry. 😁 Seriously, I ended up using one of my wife's old hose. That does work pretty well, you're right!
I need to know how to change the pin without the key.
Where did you get that aluminum screwdriver?
would this work with any neodimium magnet?
So this magnet is made by the company which makes lock picks also, and it's 'NEW'.
Neodymium magnets are around for ages, and not new. At all.
use wooden door wedge to move it away from the lock 1 less thing to deal with
I have been in the alarm business for 40 years. Like all products there is always room for improvement and this has been done. You have amateurs and professionals in the business. It all depends on who you choose and how much you want to spend. Consumers would spend $99.00 to protect their $100,000.00 + cars.
Then they wonder why it was stolen. I have installed residential and commercial high security systems and they are extremely expensive. You get what you pay for.
Just remember, in the state of Illinois and most other states you must be licensed by that state to sell, service and install security systems. In Illinois it's the IDFPR that monitors alarm company's. You will be arrested and charged with a class x felony if you get caught. Do your homework!
One last comment, a true professional burglar does three jobs on average in his lifetime.
I’m a thief thank you for this
Got a fishing magnet that has 85jg of pulling force. That didn't work. It didn't even stick. It got a non magnetic stainless steel outer case.
that's a rare earth magnet so basic science wins out again
This is a very commonly known bypass, Kaba has made a retrofit kit for these locks.
Jeff Moss it is commonly known to locksmiths and maybe criminals. Hardly anybody else I think. Maybe people who registered their locks were notified. Small businesses, churches etc all over the place still have these locks in their original form!
Ever tried putting it in a sock
Magneto? More like Mag-Neato!
Never saw a Simplex mechanical pushbutton lock you could use a number more than once. You can use combination of numbers but not a number more than once.
Casing is NOT IRON/STEEL, otherwise the magnetic field would not penetrate. It must be some non-ferro probably Al-based allow.
The metal "flag" was only on units that had passage mode, A VERY SMALL percentage of these. They are good locks !
only works with privacy option
i don't believe it works on the newer models with dual levers
I can only imagine that those who didn't like this video are those who use this lock for themselves or their businesses...OR the company themselves. Naturally, I suppose. Stay legal guys. Not worth exploiting this type of information for use that'll wind you up in jail or prison.
Wow
This was neto.
Should say Kaba Simplex lock with passage mode defeated with magnet. It's just a bit misleading because this will only work on the passage mode model and most Kaba 1000 lock installations don't require a passage mode so the bracket isn't there..
The housing is zinc. Also, if it was steel, the magnetism would not make it to the internal mechanism.
I don't remember our Unican locks having that flag?
The part that the magnet is moving is called the chamber release. It is used to put the lock in bypass mode. He either added that part to the lock later or removed parts from the back cover that would prevent the chamber release from moving under magnetic force.
How the heck do you store such a powerful magnet without killing your electronics or magnetizing all of your tools.
+Papa Gleb In bubble wrap or some foam. That is also how they ship them The magnetic force drops exponentially with distance.
Most modern electronics don't mind magnetism much, btw.
+Papa Gleb In bubble wrap or some foam. That is also how they ship them The magnetic force drops exponentially with distance.
Most modern electronics don't mind magnetism much, btw.
+Daniel Wallace WARNING-it may cause you to repeat yourself!
What a strange bug...
+Papa Gleb Large neodymium magnets are stored with foam or rubber or wood on all sides, and then it has a steel plate on top and a steel plate on bottom (a few centimeters apart). This kind of short-circuits the magnetic circuit trough the metal plates). An all of this is in a wooden crate (or a metal one.. it would work as a magnetic short circuit even more)
Why would you cut the whole steelplate off? Simply drill a hole in the side and pull the flag then?
You failed to mention that this lock is equipped with a passage function. Anybody who is a professional knows what I’m talking about.
Explain please :) My google fu is not turning up what the passage function actually is
The simple fix is to jam something between the lock and the side. Done, that flag will never move
Too bad they didn't make that crucial piece of the lock out of titanium huh? ;) ;) Insert patent here...
1 dislike??? ok. who's the nob? lol
Mr. Kaba? xD
You know the codes are all the same when it's coming out of the box if they didn't change the code from Factory it's the same every other lock under series I'm not telling you the combination but I know it cuz I had to do it at work everyday to get into work
do not pay $30 for that. you can get high strength Neodymium magnets (this) on eBay and Amazon for way cheaper.
+Sub Ripper a harddrive also contains 2 very strong neodymium magnets.
+EDHKilian Not this strong, though. Also, hard drive magnets are designed in a way that reduces their influence range.
+Sub Ripper This one should work, for about $12.
www.banggood.com/N52-40-x-40-x-20mm-Strong-Rare-Earth-Neodymium-Magnet-Square-Block-Magnet-p-981280.html
Takes a little while to get here, but they're pretty beefy.
(And N52 is pretty much the strongest you can get.)
+Nicholas Feeley Thanks for the link, looks great!
Made in Canada...
so nobody should use this "lock" ever again