Pretty sure that since removing and adding the -1/-1 counter are both costs, you can keep comboing in response to removal regardless of ooze's toughness. Also you can cast the spikeshot with the infinite mana from the ooze having the other two abilities. Doesn't need to be in your graveyard.
Yes exactly, you can even win through split second removal, since you never actually have to pass priority if you respond to your own devoted druid activation. Just make infinite mana and then put thousands of spikeshot activations on the stack. I guess Sudden Death would stop it, since it would reduce Ooze's power to 0.
He did mention timing out, I don't know about the online play, but if there's a timing restriction he would have to go through the combo in theory 4x as many activations to actually complete and give an opponent a chance to respond purely based on the mechanics of this online format. Of course such a restriction wouldn't exist in a cardboard tournament setting and that would remove the risk in casting it outright if there is one.
@@OdinMagnus He can't use the spikeshot ability or the devoted druid ability. Only the Morsel hoarder ability can be used during split second. - thus no combo during split second.
17:35 if you have inf mana with devoted druid and morselholder, you dont need Spikeshot on grave if you have it in hand, you can just cast spike from hand
btw, I had this deck in paper at one point with Orzhov Guildmage as the finisher- you definitely want him over Spikeshot Elder to stay in 2 colors, get around hexproof/Ring protection, etc.
I might build this deck just to have something to bring play for Modern nights at my LGS. That seems like it would make the deck a good amount stronger and make the manabase even cheaper.
@@evanshaner991 btw you can actually hold priority all the way through the infinite mana combo not even in the yard yet with the "Discard: " creatures until the lose life portion
@@Nightinglass discarding off Lotleth troll and Noose constrictor is a cost and can't be responded to. If you resolve the Necrotic Ooze, you can put any part of the combo into the graveyard from your hand, immediately make mana from a mana ability that can't be responded to, etc. Basically, your opponent can't respond until you have the infinite mana already.
Am I misunderstading the rules or can you make mana with Ooze on the Battlefield and Devoted Druid and Morselhoarder in the GY without your opponent having the opportunity to respond? Putting a -1/-1 counter from Druid is a cost, so they can't respond to it. Morsehoarder's ability is a mana ability, so again they can't respond to it. You should just be able to hold priority and make infinite mana. Then you can activate the Spikeshot's ability (or whatever else) still holding priority and only then, with everything on the stack, can the opponent respond.
36:02. You didn't have to concede, your opponent is locked out of white mana and you can hardcast morselhoarder and still get devoted druids out for fixing, and you still might topdeck something nice
If someone had a second removal spell. Couldn't you just remove a counter in response to add the mana and the start the combo again. Making it almost uninteractable
I had this deck in paper at one point with Orzhov Guildmage as the finisher- you definitely want him over Spikeshot Elder to stay in 2 colors, get around hexproof/Ring protection, etc.
Semi spoiler - match 2, 2 nut draws, its so nice... ive done it once in my life, innastrad + rtr standard, boros perfect t3 kill back to back games... so rare but it feels like hitting a straight flush in poker. Royal flush is having in your starting 7 twice, you had to top deck an untapped land but good god is that a good feeling. With the mulligan rate you mentioned in the second match - power creep and players understanding their own deck on a deeper level and your match ups - you play dredge a lot, you know a good dredge starting 7 game 1 on the play or draw. The new eldrazi decks also have a lot to consider game 1 keep/mull on the play or draw.
Against the Boros deck that got Blood Moon out on you - why not cast the Morselhoarder that was in your hand? You can remove the counters to cast Druid or Nightmare, and then you have a 6/4 beater that they have to deal with in the process. (Around 35 minutes in.) Beating with Craw Wurm is still a 3-turn clock.
Hi Seth…. Just a heads up that at about @40:00 the banner on the side is move to the middle of the screen and is blocking the view of the game…. It gets fixed @ 44:30 ish
Right...such a quirky card that they probably won't put in standard just because of the tracking issue. It's also kind of a feel bad for new players when they play it wrong, or get mana screwed because they need black mana but didn't draw a land lol.
You can combo through almost any removal because removing a counter is a mana ability. The only ways to stop it are split second and Night Soil in legacy
You can make buried alive+reanimation spell (persist in modern's case) as a 2 card combo. That's a thing in penny dreadfull for a while. You need oriq loremade+any haste giving creature (usually Thornling, because it has an usefull protection giving ability also). You make a pile of ooze, loremage, haste creatature. Give haste to ooze, tap it to entomb devoted druid, untap it with druid's ability, tap it to entomb morsel, then do the combo. There's probably better finishers than spikeshot elder also, but the finisher creature is not all that important. The oriq loremage package actually makes the deck much more flexible.
i mean, in modern you can also do griselbrand stuff with ooze, which is a whole unexplored thing in Penny Dreadfull (aside from lists with Asmodeus+Skirge Familiar)
Is there a reason to use spikeshot elder and not walking ballista? Ballista can ping enemy dorks early, and can 'discard' itself for X=0 if it is in your hand.
There's definitely more mulligans, because the old Paris Mulligan was actually so bad that keeping a 6 card hand was better than anything a 5 card hand could be unless you were playing a hand dependent combo deck and it was your first game of the match.
Haha...but this one both parts are sorcery speed and pretty much all in on the combo. Twin's hidden skill was boarding out the combo and switching to a UR midrange/control deck. That said, with the insanely powered decks in 2024, there is 0 good reason Twin is still banned!
I wonder if this list wouldnt benefit from a 1 of bloodghast. It would be a creature that you can buried alive and make a land drop for a body to use with your renanimation package since both victimize and nightmare require sac fodder.
Saffron Olive is back again with yet another attempt to make a Necrotic Ooze deck. For the kinds of people who like that sort of thing that's the kinda thing those people like.
you definitely cannot beat this combo with any number of removal spells lol. in fact, since devoted druid's abiluty puts the counter on as part of the cost and morselhorder's ability is a mana ability, you can generate infinite mana and then put 1000 spikeshot triggers on the stack without ever passing priority.
For the game at 45:00, wouldn't the correct line have t2 Druid > t3 Buried Alive (other 2 combo pieces plus ooze) >turn 4 victimize (saccing the druid)? You'd get back the ooze and the dude that damage payoff, so you could go infinite that turn and would just have to put up with only dealing 1 per activation.
Why did Seth concedee around the minute 36? Woudn't be possible for him to hard cast the Morselhoarder next turn and try to win by attacking instead of the combo?
wouldn’t walking balista also work instead of spike shot elder? i know id would require a bit more clix and you need to sequence your combo a bit different but it would over all be a better card
Why that red creature? Aren't there better ones? Like isn't there a dragon that does something similar but the activation is cheaper since it's more expensive to get down?
I feel like eldritch evolution is really missing here, which is confusing considering its a $4 card and really wouldnt break the budget, and persist over victimize would have won you the breach game, at literally $1 per copy right now.
Sorry, but is the side screen added after the fact? I’ve never played MODO, so I’m going to guess yes, since he refers to not knowing the name of the opponents deck. Is it gotten after the fact from league record?
Good thing he says out loud everything that's being played, down to the lands. With so many videos he makes, it's a surprise these kinds of mistakes are so rare.
You lost the winning record because Magic is a game with variance. Pretty cool a budget deck can at least hang somewhat with the OP MH block constructed decks.
@@rasen7721 In paper sure, but online it's enough extra clicks that it could be a problem. 180 clicks to kill an opponent from 20 instead of 35 with spikeshot elder
It is much easier to put in the graveyard than spikeshot elder. If you draw it, cast it for 0 or use it as a removal spell/chump blocker. Also makes you able to go full Golgari.
Seriously, can you PLEASE stop complaining about The One Ring not getting banned EVERY match intro! If you feel the need to make your thoughts known about it over and over and over again, at least just do it at the start of the video, during the intro, then just play after that. We get it! We know your feelings about it. As you would say “Jeeezzumm…” I’m stopping this video at about the halfway point, and I think I’ll just skip your modern content for now. I’ll still be there for other formats, but your obsession with The One Ring has gotten old.
I feel the exact opposite. Everyone is on arena and Seth never does Modern anymore. I started watching years ago because I loved his modern content but now he mostly plays fake arena only formats.
Pretty sure that since removing and adding the -1/-1 counter are both costs, you can keep comboing in response to removal regardless of ooze's toughness.
Also you can cast the spikeshot with the infinite mana from the ooze having the other two abilities. Doesn't need to be in your graveyard.
yep...seth is more cautious then needed 😂
Yes exactly, you can even win through split second removal, since you never actually have to pass priority if you respond to your own devoted druid activation.
Just make infinite mana and then put thousands of spikeshot activations on the stack.
I guess Sudden Death would stop it, since it would reduce Ooze's power to 0.
He did mention timing out, I don't know about the online play, but if there's a timing restriction he would have to go through the combo in theory 4x as many activations to actually complete and give an opponent a chance to respond purely based on the mechanics of this online format. Of course such a restriction wouldn't exist in a cardboard tournament setting and that would remove the risk in casting it outright if there is one.
@@simonr6268 they are mana abilities so he can do it still through a split second effect.
@@OdinMagnus He can't use the spikeshot ability or the devoted druid ability. Only the Morsel hoarder ability can be used during split second. - thus no combo during split second.
17:35 if you have inf mana with devoted druid and morselholder, you dont need Spikeshot on grave if you have it in hand, you can just cast spike from hand
spikeshot elder can also work on the battlefield. its less damage, but with infinite mana that doesnt really matter
And to speed up the combo you can use the first activation to shoot itself putting it in the graveyard
@@michaellogan2780 bro genius
Gotta say there’s something so unique about lorwyn block cards that really have never been replicated
btw, I had this deck in paper at one point with Orzhov Guildmage as the finisher- you definitely want him over Spikeshot Elder to stay in 2 colors, get around hexproof/Ring protection, etc.
Yeh, that seems great in paper! I might try that.
For MTGO I would guess the timing matters more
I might build this deck just to have something to bring play for Modern nights at my LGS. That seems like it would make the deck a good amount stronger and make the manabase even cheaper.
@@evanshaner991 btw you can actually hold priority all the way through the infinite mana combo not even in the yard yet with the "Discard: " creatures until the lose life portion
@@TheMCGamer2012 I’m not sure I follow you here. What are you holding priority for if you don’t have the finisher in the yard?
@@Nightinglass discarding off Lotleth troll and Noose constrictor is a cost and can't be responded to. If you resolve the Necrotic Ooze, you can put any part of the combo into the graveyard from your hand, immediately make mana from a mana ability that can't be responded to, etc. Basically, your opponent can't respond until you have the infinite mana already.
Against breach, the decklist is randomly in the middle of the screen instead of on the side
I wonder why this happens in some goldfish videos...
41:14
Am I misunderstading the rules or can you make mana with Ooze on the Battlefield and Devoted Druid and Morselhoarder in the GY without your opponent having the opportunity to respond?
Putting a -1/-1 counter from Druid is a cost, so they can't respond to it. Morsehoarder's ability is a mana ability, so again they can't respond to it. You should just be able to hold priority and make infinite mana. Then you can activate the Spikeshot's ability (or whatever else) still holding priority and only then, with everything on the stack, can the opponent respond.
Nah you are right. Seth is just struggling to understand a game plan that isn't chalice of the void
Hes right in the wrong way, yes the line he describes kills ooze. But you are correct in how to simply not punt lol
36:02. You didn't have to concede, your opponent is locked out of white mana and you can hardcast morselhoarder and still get devoted druids out for fixing, and you still might topdeck something nice
If someone had a second removal spell. Couldn't you just remove a counter in response to add the mana and the start the combo again. Making it almost uninteractable
Yes
Hmmm, yeah. Not sure how Seth missed that unless we missed something.
I have so many nectrotic oozes. One of my fave cards back in the day. No reason just loved it. I needed this video
It's just a cool card
Like Soul Flayer version 1.0, another great against the odds and budget magic build around card.
@@mattm7798 I love soulflayer too. One of my fave cards. I think it all started with argothian wurm. It’s janky but it is fun when it works
If you're playing Nooze on MTGO anyway, come play Penny Dreadful. We do this for $2 and less :)
YESSSSSSS thank you Seth. I’ve missed MBMs so much
Spikeshot is easy to get into the graveyard, activate and target itself. :)
LOL true, that is one way
I had this deck in paper at one point with Orzhov Guildmage as the finisher- you definitely want him over Spikeshot Elder to stay in 2 colors, get around hexproof/Ring protection, etc.
Semi spoiler - match 2, 2 nut draws, its so nice... ive done it once in my life, innastrad + rtr standard, boros perfect t3 kill back to back games... so rare but it feels like hitting a straight flush in poker. Royal flush is having in your starting 7 twice, you had to top deck an untapped land but good god is that a good feeling.
With the mulligan rate you mentioned in the second match - power creep and players understanding their own deck on a deeper level and your match ups - you play dredge a lot, you know a good dredge starting 7 game 1 on the play or draw. The new eldrazi decks also have a lot to consider game 1 keep/mull on the play or draw.
Against the Boros deck that got Blood Moon out on you - why not cast the Morselhoarder that was in your hand? You can remove the counters to cast Druid or Nightmare, and then you have a 6/4 beater that they have to deal with in the process. (Around 35 minutes in.) Beating with Craw Wurm is still a 3-turn clock.
Probably didn't see the line in the moment tbf
@@ave_maria323 Probably! (... better known as SaffronOlive...)
... couldn't resist :D
a cool idea could be to update all past modern decks and try those to the new meta. i think we would see some amazing surprises
YES!!!! Especially all the old tribal decks.
I really missed a non-budget list by the end of the article. Nonetheless, a pretty fun concept!
It would just be the mama base, basically
The list is already budget (for modern standards)
I raised my arms in triumph when you drew the 4th land for the win!! Whew! Suck it Tron!
LOL...rule 1 of playing Modern: Never feel bad when Tron loses...never.
Hi Seth…. Just a heads up that at about @40:00 the banner on the side is move to the middle of the screen and is blocking the view of the game….
It gets fixed @ 44:30 ish
$100 in September 2015 (when this series started) is equivalent to approximately $130.28 today, considering inflation.
You had me at Necrotic Ooze.
Seth be adding an extra vowel to Saaaaaaaaaaffroooooooooon Ooooooooooliiiiiiiiiive with each video
I really like the post ban modern brews, hope to see more!
River of Tears.
Right...such a quirky card that they probably won't put in standard just because of the tracking issue. It's also kind of a feel bad for new players when they play it wrong, or get mana screwed because they need black mana but didn't draw a land lol.
This deck would absolutely pop off if Faithless Looting was legal
LOL, alot of decks would pop off :)
I ran this deck back when Faithless Looting was legal- think I went 3-1 at FNM
You can combo through almost any removal because removing a counter is a mana ability. The only ways to stop it are split second and Night Soil in legacy
ooze was an all-star in my jarad cedh deck.
You really wanted us to see that decklist near the end
Modern, Timeless, and Pioneer are my favorite formats!
You can make buried alive+reanimation spell (persist in modern's case) as a 2 card combo. That's a thing in penny dreadfull for a while.
You need oriq loremade+any haste giving creature (usually Thornling, because it has an usefull protection giving ability also).
You make a pile of ooze, loremage, haste creatature. Give haste to ooze, tap it to entomb devoted druid, untap it with druid's ability, tap it to entomb morsel, then do the combo.
There's probably better finishers than spikeshot elder also, but the finisher creature is not all that important. The oriq loremage package actually makes the deck much more flexible.
i mean, in modern you can also do griselbrand stuff with ooze, which is a whole unexplored thing in Penny Dreadfull (aside from lists with Asmodeus+Skirge Familiar)
I’ve been waiting for a modern budget brew for modern since mh3 came out. Can’t wait to watch this brew going off !!
Is there a reason to use spikeshot elder and not walking ballista? Ballista can ping enemy dorks early, and can 'discard' itself for X=0 if it is in your hand.
Before I press play, continuing from the intro, I just want to say this one is going to take some Endurance.
Remove Combonian Nightmare and the creatures that mill for seed of hope and rumble, then putting good lands in the deck would make this a lot better
There's definitely more mulligans, because the old Paris Mulligan was actually so bad that keeping a 6 card hand was better than anything a 5 card hand could be unless you were playing a hand dependent combo deck and it was your first game of the match.
Iconic combo that goes 3 drop into 4 drop to win the game in modern, where did I see that one before?
Haha...but this one both parts are sorcery speed and pretty much all in on the combo. Twin's hidden skill was boarding out the combo and switching to a UR midrange/control deck.
That said, with the insanely powered decks in 2024, there is 0 good reason Twin is still banned!
I wonder if this list wouldnt benefit from a 1 of bloodghast. It would be a creature that you can buried alive and make a land drop for a body to use with your renanimation package since both victimize and nightmare require sac fodder.
Necrotic Ooze fans assemble. I have been waiting for it to be good in modern. What a time.
Seth forgets that ooze can attack and pressure karn
"GoS is doesn't need to be banned"
30:02 Guide of Souls winning at turn 3ish
Saffron Olive is back again with yet another attempt to make a Necrotic Ooze deck. For the kinds of people who like that sort of thing that's the kinda thing those people like.
you definitely cannot beat this combo with any number of removal spells lol. in fact, since devoted druid's abiluty puts the counter on as part of the cost and morselhorder's ability is a mana ability, you can generate infinite mana and then put 1000 spikeshot triggers on the stack without ever passing priority.
For the game at 45:00, wouldn't the correct line have t2 Druid > t3 Buried Alive (other 2 combo pieces plus ooze) >turn 4 victimize (saccing the druid)? You'd get back the ooze and the dude that damage payoff, so you could go infinite that turn and would just have to put up with only dealing 1 per activation.
Obviously, this still would have lost to Emrakrul, but this would have given you a much higher chance of winning
I am waiting for the mulligan rates video essay now Seth...
I just prefer the worst fear deck in the 8 rumbles and squirming emergence shell.
Conley Woods would be so proud.
It COULD go infinite for just $15 of photo printing at FedEx
I must have Asmodeus in all of my Necrotic Ooze decks.
Why did Seth concedee around the minute 36? Woudn't be possible for him to hard cast the Morselhoarder next turn and try to win by attacking instead of the combo?
Should we be running Shifting woodlands?
Would soul cauldron be a good non-budget include? What about priest of fell rites if you can support the mana base?
spike shot is fine on the battlefield it doesn't need zo be in your graveyard
Better mulligan rules also means a bigger reason to mulligan overall. Blind 5 is far far far worse than draw 7 and put 2 to the bottom.
wouldn’t walking balista also work instead of spike shot elder? i know id would require a bit more clix and you need to sequence your combo a bit different but it would over all be a better card
can we get some Multani's Presence self counter spice! I loved the video!
Why that red creature? Aren't there better ones? Like isn't there a dragon that does something similar but the activation is cheaper since it's more expensive to get down?
There's definitely been a huge increase in the number of mulligans since the game began.
Modern brew time. Yes!
Is there a reason other than adding an annoying amount of clicks to play spikeshot elder over vampire opportunist?
Actually... Just make it mono green and make it a shifting woodland deck lol
I feel like eldritch evolution is really missing here, which is confusing considering its a $4 card and really wouldnt break the budget, and persist over victimize would have won you the breach game, at literally $1 per copy right now.
Is a card like blood hustler better than spike shot because it’s black so you don’t have to splash red? Or is it too many clicks in mtgo lol?
I miss Grief 😢
Hello there Miss Grief, sorry about your banning
Sorry, but is the side screen added after the fact? I’ve never played MODO, so I’m going to guess yes, since he refers to not knowing the name of the opponents deck. Is it gotten after the fact from league record?
Never played modern but wouldnt this deck benefit from having a boseiju or two? Since most graveyard hate pieces are artifacts.
Morsels but no Quillspike?
this is kinda unrelated, but I so can't wait for soulflayer on arena... why wotc why...
leaving the delist in the middle was so hard to watch
Good thing he says out loud everything that's being played, down to the lands. With so many videos he makes, it's a surprise these kinds of mistakes are so rare.
@@ElianaMCP it was only one game in one match it happens
I don't see why you want 3 morsal hoarders/ spikeshots/ devoted druid. You don't want to draw them.
seems like persist might be better than victimize, a lot of the time you really just wanted to reanimate the ooze
I wonder how someone woud upgrade this deck with more money past the manabase
no monored agro played against - doesnt count :D
this is the kind of jank i signed up for. day 2 of asking for Darksteel Reactor beatdown 2024 edition.
I think your modern play needs to go without a budget.
*Thanks for the Content!*
Does anyone else just *hate* Magic Online's interface in 2024?
You lost the winning record because Magic is a game with variance. Pretty cool a budget deck can at least hang somewhat with the OP MH block constructed decks.
Can't wait for this one!
Hall Michael Anderson Christopher Young Shirley
ZoMg nEcRoTiC oooO0oO0ze!!????!!!!1!!!!
Modern is just becoming less and less budget friendly. That’s why I just use counterfeits lol. I can play a $1000+ deck for under a $100
would this combo also work with walking ballista in the graveyard?
Yes, but it'd be way slower. 4 mana for 1 damage instead of 3 mana for 4 damage
@@liorramati265 doesn't really matter how slow it is it's infinite
@@rasen7721 On mtgo it's relevant due to the chess timer
@@rasen7721 In paper sure, but online it's enough extra clicks that it could be a problem. 180 clicks to kill an opponent from 20 instead of 35 with spikeshot elder
It is much easier to put in the graveyard than spikeshot elder. If you draw it, cast it for 0 or use it as a removal spell/chump blocker. Also makes you able to go full Golgari.
If you're not first, you're last
"Zero's the Hero. First is the Worst. 2nd's the Best!"
-Elementary School Wisdom
Seriously, can you PLEASE stop complaining about The One Ring not getting banned EVERY match intro! If you feel the need to make your thoughts known about it over and over and over again, at least just do it at the start of the video, during the intro, then just play after that. We get it! We know your feelings about it. As you would say “Jeeezzumm…” I’m stopping this video at about the halfway point, and I think I’ll just skip your modern content for now. I’ll still be there for other formats, but your obsession with The One Ring has gotten old.
Well, when one card warps a format like the ring does...
I get you love modern but for the love of God please less MTGO content nobody is playing on MTGO
I feel the exact opposite. Everyone is on arena and Seth never does Modern anymore. I started watching years ago because I loved his modern content but now he mostly plays fake arena only formats.
wrong also L also ratio also stop posting
MTGGoldfish, You're amazing! Let's be friends and have fun together!