Michael Kruger: Q&A #2 (Session 3)
Вставка
- Опубліковано 24 лип 2024
- Dr. Michael J Kruger is the President of Reformed Theological Seminary in Charlotte
Recorded at Christ Community Church in Wilmington, NC on October 6, 2017. Filmed by Philip Varvaris.
How does an omniscient being become jealous, Nick?
How does an eternally existing and omniscient/omnipotent creator god create a universe without predestining everything?
How is it moral, just or right to punish the innocent progeny of a wrongdoer?
How is it moral, just or right to punish anyone for infinity for having committed a finite crime?
How is it moral, just or right to scapegoat an innocent person for the transgressions of guilty people?
And, lastly, why, besides being an obvious human command to 'get in line,' is a belief in the existence of God even a part of the equation?? What would an omniscient god care whether or not a human being believed that he or she or it existed?? And if it did care so very, very much about humanity 'believing in its existence,' why all the games?? Why hide? Is it not telling that the command to believe - against all that you see and learn - is at the core of it all??
Christianity is an absurd ancient superstition. It's self-contradicting and it's illogical. And, for me, it's ..unbelievable.
This was painfully bad. 🤣😆
Because it was the Demiurge that becomes jealous, not the All
Thank you for not being offensive or abusive and simply stating the questions that puzzle you about God.
I am in no way a biblical scholar - nor will I attempt to be judgmental on your world view as I attempt to answer a few of these with nothing but respect for your views. I ask only that you read them with the same sense of respect even if we disagree. You have six questions and I will respond to what I can based on the numbering them 1 to six from top to bottom:
1. Jealous God - Start with the basis that there is only one correct road (Street #1) to get to your destination - say Disneyland - and that you have to buy a ticket to enter the park. If Disneyland were to advertise that there only true road to get to Disneyland is by taking Street 1, and that the only way I will allow you to enter the gates of Disneyland is to follow this one road. I also will not honor the tickets you used to get into Six Flags to get into Disneyland. Couldn't you describe this as 'jealous?' Maybe 'strict' is a more apt word but again we are dealing with words passed down by oral traditions, through multiple languages to invoke understanding. They Beyonce' song Irreplaceable is a great metaphor I think - The guy chose to sleep with someone else so she said hit the road. He could describe that she was just acting out of jealousy but did the guy do something he shouldn't and pay the price for it? He may think he is right and should be allowed to continue to ride on the Beyonce amusement park - but she is explaining that isn't how life works. Ask your significant other if saying you cannot sleep around on them is jealousy or just a strictly enforced rule. Again not a biblical scholar but trying to explain something in basic context as I believe those passages were meant to convey.
2. Creator without predestination. I spend LOTS of time on this throughout my life and the best I came up with so far that I am fairly comfortable with is - Have you ever picked up a mystery book or watched a mystery movie on DVD? You literally could start either at the end and know "who dun it" and then sit down to watch the movie or read the book. You have that power. But instead you allow the story to unfold in front of you and are, for lack of a better word, "entertained" by it. The movie Titanic made billions of dollars - people enjoyed going to see that movie. Did ANYONE who went to see it not know the ship was going to sink in end? But even though they knew what would ultimately happen - people went to see what happened to the individual characters as they travelled on what to us was a predestined path. God may know how everything is going to end - but the paths we take and the choices we make along the way to that path are all ours. Again not a biblical scholar but someone like you who has asked this question millions of times to myself and never happy with "It just is" being the final answer.
3. Progeny of a wrongdoer. - This would help if you had included specific passages - which I might not be able to answer. However, I can think of a few examples that I can. I have no doubt I am missing the mark on ones you mean - sorry this is not me dodging it is me having no point to which you reference. That said... All the children of Adam and Eve were denied paradise because of the sins of their parents. In this case, that punishment was because Adam and Eve forever changed the nature of man and all that followed suffered under that evolutionary change. If you believe Darwin then humans come from a long line of creatures that started as water-breathers. Today we drowned if we try to breathe water without some sort of device not a part of ourselves. We are being punished by our evolution. I would note that the New Testament resolves a large part of your question. Jesus does not accept that people are punished for the deeds of their parents. See John 9:1-5 as an example. Just because we would judge something as a punishment doesn't make it so. Jesus's teaching were to be proclaimed to the whole world, not just the Jews, that Heaven was accessible to all, meaning the Gentiles also. I suspect you have an Old Testament passage or two you are referring to but I ask you to look at that passage in John and see if perhaps it was mankind not understanding God and the rules that might be why it is written as it was.
I will start another response for the other three if I can try to answer them.
(Part 2) Punishing anyone to infinity for committing a finite crime. This one is neat because different branches of Christianity believe different things on this. Obviously, I do not know the truth of any of them but I can provide a few as I too have wondered things like this. First, some parts of Christianity believe that a sentence to Hell is much like a prison sentence - a specified period of time that must be worked off before being release to Purgatory or Heaven. They can be very long sentences as we judge them, but we use different rulers to measure than God does.
If that one does not agree with your basic question. Next let's look at the question of "infinity." I actually was a math geek and this term is very hard to comprehend. So trying something completely off the wall. Drug company X comes up with a new drug that promises both eternal life and stops aging. Unfortunately, if you take the drug you have 24 hours of the most horrible pain you have to endure.... is it worth it? What if it is a year of pain? Ten years? a lifetime? When you judge how much time in pain you have to endure against infinity - that fraction, no matter the period of time, is incredible small. (Think on how long you will live vs the life of the universe so far.) If you judge from the universe's perspective a lifetime means nothing. It is all a question of scale.
But, you could be asking about those that believe in eternal damnation for sins on Earth. So to go to that extreme let's go back to my Disneyland example from question #1. If you take the road to Six Flags and choose to buy their lifetime guest pass - can you honestly complain that Disneyland will not let for your lifetime because you bought a Six Flags pass not one from Disney? Our choices (free will) decide our future. We may not think it is fair, but it is true. And Disneyland is there saying, drop your Six Flags pass, take Street 1 and buy a life-time ticket with us and you are welcome here forever. But you don't think it is fair you had to buy two lifetime passes so you refuse. Is that Disneyland punishing you for your lifetime or are you merely suffering under the results of your decision? Just one way to look at it.
Question #5: Scapegoat - (Again this would be great to have the passages you are referring to.) I would tell you the New Testament for sure does not endorse that view. Without knowing your specific passages in question I would point back again to John 9:1-5 for the concept of punishment for others' sins. The disciples ask Jesus - There is a man born blind from birth, who sinned the parents of the child. Jesus says neither - why do you assume it is a punishment? We like to think of things that we consider unfair as punishments all the time. I will never get a chance to date Halle Berry. I may see I am being punished, but I assure you she does not.
As for punishment, sometimes we simply are lying to ourselves. It is unfair that I got an F on my pop quiz because I went out drinking the night before instead of studying - so it's not a punishment but the results of a choice I made. Well if the teacher had said there was going to be a pop quiz then I would not have gone out drinking so the fault is that I wasn't informed. People love to make others responsible for the consequences of the decisions they make instead of taking responsibility for themselves. Is it fine to go out with someone who has a history of cheating on their significant others and physically abusing their partners? You can - but then it's pretty hard to get sympathy if it happens to you as well. And if you see your sone or daughter is getting into that situation and you tell them not to - are you punishing them in the short term or helping them in the long run? Again - just some things to consider.
Question #6: Why is belief in God is essential? In part this has been covered by the buying a Disneyland ticket to get into Disneyland example. It is only essential if you want to get into Disneyland. If you are satisfied not getting into Disneyland then the ticket is not required. *I am not going to get into a debate on the moral argument of should a person have to pay for any good or service as that is not a question for religion/theology.
So "Why do I have to believe? Why hide? Why all the games?" I mean the next with absolutely no insult. Is God hiding or do you have your eyes closed? If the person you are looking for is standing behind you, are they hiding from you, or are you just not looking in the right direction?
And for you last part "...command to believe - against all that you see and learn - is at the core of it all??" Yeah science has certainly explained many things, but not all of them. If you truly want an answer to this particular question and have a truly open mind to considering that maybe your eyes are closed or you are looking in the wrong direction for you answer, I would point you to the dozens of UA-cam videos that focus on the Oxford Mathematician John Lennox who does a far better job than I ever could. You want proof? Here is a man whose life is focused on the complex equations in the world and universe and he quite elegantly explains why what all you have seen and learned is such a small part of what is true in this magnificent world around you. C. S. Lewis also has some great lessons on understanding all of this as well.
I hope you and whoever comes behind us sees that at no point was I at all disrespectful to you or to anyone else, even Ms. Halle Berry who still refuses to date me (which is to my wife's liking anyway.) I can't blame Halley for having good taste! I have no intentions of making this my new life of responding to challenges on faith. I am on my own path as I assume all of you are, and ultimately my decisions will result in my final destination. If you are right and there is nothing after this, then I may have wasted my time here in something you consider foolish, but I have not harmed you with my belief. (I acknowledge that there are Christians who do cause others distress or harm for their lack of belief and like you I believe they are wrong as well - they are not following the basic teachings.) But, humbly, if the world view I have presented is correct - and you have chosen not to buy the pass to Disneyland, whose responsibility is it for your choice? I can respect your free will choice even if I personally wish better for you (like the friend seeing you choosing to date someone I think is bad for you). Hopefully, you can likewise respect the choices of others that differ from your own.