9 MEDIEVAL CROSSBOW DEVICES - How do they work?
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- Опубліковано 12 тра 2019
- Medieval crossbows!!!
From hand spanning a crossbow with no stirrup, to using a goats foot lever and onto the really powerful systems of the cranequin and the windlass; just what power can these devices employ? The answers are not just calculated from some designs, they are measured from the actual working medieval crossbows.
If you are interested in medieval crossbows have a look at my site here todsworkshop.com/collections/...
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The results are below
Hand Span 1:1 Max 150lb
Sitting Span 1:1 Max 300lbs
Stirrup 1:1 Max 250lbs
Spanning Belt 1:1 Max 320lbs
Doubler Belt 2:1 Max 450lbs
Goat's Foot Lever ~5:1 Max 550lbs
6 Pulley English Windlass 78:1 +1500lbs
Cranequin 182:1 +2000lbs
Screw Jack 47:1 +1000lbs
Apologies for the sub standard audio quality, the lapel mic didn't record properly so we had to use the camera audio.
If you are interested in medieval replica weapons take look at my websites todcutler.com for budget medieval knives and todsworkshop.com for custom knives, swords and crossbows
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todtodeschini
When I was ten my grandfather made a crossbow for me in his basement workshop using half of a steel hoop for a barrel that had not been heated and bent and he used the other half as the stirrup and the stock of an old shotgun as the body. It was a thing of beauty. I promptly put a bolt through the red metal flag on the mailbox and was about to nail the tin rooster weather vane on top of the barn when my mother, my grandmother, my aunt and the housekeeper flew out like outraged bats and confiscated my bow. Never learned how the thing worked and this video was great! Thanks, on Christmas Day.
Tod please write your own book on crossbows. Payne-Gallwey's book needs to be superseded with new research and modern thinking like yours.
@@tods_workshop in many ways, these videos could serve as a valuable reference. I'd love to see some more technical videos concerning the specifications and manufacture of each Bow. Although, I realize that as a tradesman, you might be wary of sharing all your secrets.
I'm sure some would pay a pretty penny for such a series!
@@tods_workshop You can collaborate with others, present what you know, have a independent writer put it all together in a coherent fashion. I'm sure if you put the idea out there to your peers they would be interested.
"Mess of crossbows"
Is that the collective noun for crossbows? Like a flock of birds, a school of fish and a mess of crossbows.
:)
I thought it would have been a murder of crossbows, like how you have a murder of crows :P
A murder of crows, a mess of crossbows.
@@operator8014 Are two crows considered attempted murder?
@@RawkL0bster No, but one crow who's bros all bailed on party night sure is.
A murder of crossbows sound better. Like a murder of crows.
I always draw crossbows with a pencil 😏😅 Amazing video and a book worth considering!!
Nice one, lol
I knew somebody would say it 😂
OOOOSNAP
Time for you to write the new crossbow bible.
@@tods_workshop I would buy that book.
@@ironpirate8 so would I.
@@tods_workshop As would I
I would, if only to support his work. But I'd definitely end up making something
@@tods_workshop I don't know if you're still listening to this reply chain, but I also would by that book - in a bloody heartbeat, too.
I was first introduced to the lamb's foot mechanism on your channel and it amazed me. It would be cool if you could attach a scale to the lever and record the draw weight through the entire draw.
Although it doesn't have the greatest mechanical advantage the goats foot lever seems to be the fastest and most intuitive to use.. I'm assuming a longer handle would result in a greater mechanical advantage??
"I'm assuming a longer handle would result in a greater mechanical advantage??"
You're right. It would.
If you do mechanic work, you might be familiar with a 'cheater bar'. AKA putting a big pipe over your breaker bar or other tool. I had a crankshaft bolt one time where I had to put a spanner wrench on the crank and dig a 6 inch diameter steel pipe into the ground to hold it against the force of me using a 6 foot pipe over the breaker bar. I bench press around 360 pounds and box... I barely broke it free with almost 7 feet of leverage. With a long enough goats foot you could theoretically cock almost any sized crossbow, it's just a matter of practicality that limits it. If you watch his range of arc and the movements required it would be tough to make use of large amounts additional length for a person of standard size.
You would, but there is maximum length of lever that would be practical, depending on the user's arm length. If the end of the lever is longer than the user can reach comfortably, any additional length is wasted, and just adds weight and awkwardness.
also,i dont know the exact word,but the material strength of the goats foot is a factor,unless you want a really thicc one wich would get in the way of the cocking maybe
The most I think about this the better a question it gets to be, and what the most practical answer for 'speed spanning' the highest possible crossbow draw weight, using simple medieval components, might actually be?
(Also if memory serves Tod has also demonstrated at some point a bow with a built in lever that was not especially impressive for draw weight but wow could you recock it quickly.)
I find the maximum ratio of the goat's foot much more relevant than the average. Thanks for including an estimate of it.
Wouldn't the minimum ratio be the more relevant thing?
@@Elrog3 the minimum doesnt really matter because the bow is really weak at low tension, and it can even be pulled back a few cm by hand. The whole point of the goat's foot is to make it easy when the bow is strong while not slowing you down needlessly when it's weak...
Concerning the goat's foot lever, personally I think it would be more useful to describe the mechanical advantage at it's peak, rather than the average. Earlier in the draw, obviously, it sacrifices mechanical advantage that it doesn't need (yet) for quicker distance, but I think the last few inches are more representative of the system as a whole than a base mean. Great video though, wonderful content showcasing wonderful pieces.
I have been waiting 3-4 years for you to make a video like this one. Thanks for getting around to it! You have inspired all of my interest in crossbows, and the interesting variety of spanning techniques always fascinates me.
historical minded blacksmith here...I've never cared about weaponsmithing, or remotely about making a crossbow, until I came across your channel. Great work!
"It's basically the bible of crossbow making... but don't take it as gospel" you have to stop and appreciate the english language sometimes that saying such a thing makes perfect sense.
@Sunbro Adresse no it doesnt
Its like a bible without Christ.
@Sunbro Adresse no it doesn't
"Det är i stort sett armborst-tillverkningens bibel... men ta den inte för gospel"
Swedish
Oh, and one more thing.
"Just because you're ignorant doesn't mean you're right.". =D
Such a funny quote! XD
"É basicamente a bíblia das bestas, mas não à encare como o evangelho."
Portuguese. Exactly the same thing as well.
Well that was just awesome! Thanks Tod all your videos, especially the ones about crossbows, are always so educational!
I learn so much about crossbows from these videos! I had been completely unaware of the doubler belt method. Neat! :)
Tod, I love the bollocks dagger and eating knife sets I got from you a couple weeks ago. I've received several compliments on them at recent events. Hopefully I can save up enough to get one of your crossbows soon.
I have only just discovered your channel and I am enjoying some binge watching. Thank you for creating such an educational and entertaining format.
thanks a lot . this video really help me a lot to understand the crossbow
Great work again!
Yesterday i looked at ur video of the "Arrows against Armour" - it was the very first video of ur channel i was looking at. Now i saw this one and think it would be very interesting to see an "Bolts against Armour". Crossbows have much higher power so i think they would do much more damage to an armour :)
we enjoyed this informative presentation. we enjoyed the medieval musiick cheers : )
Wonderful and complete video, good job!
I was just watching this again. Incredible thanks so much Tod!
Magnificently explained, and fascinating. Thank you.
This was super informative, especially since so many people only seem to want to discuss the windlass!
Awesome information! I've made several pvc recurve bows and crossbows but you can really only get to about 150lbs draw out of a single bow with that material. When I switch to steel limbs I'll probably have to start using one of these various mechanical advantages :)
Another brilliant video, very educational!
I’ve really come to like your channel. You are very knowledgable of medieval weaponry. I myself am a bowyer of 12 years, but I only replicate North American Native archery such as the Sudbury bow or the Cherokee D style bow. I would love to attempt an english yew war-bow in the future, but yew is tricky to get ahold of. I own a fiberglass crossbow and i’m always impressed on how powerful even a 150# crossbow is. Absolutely lethal. The only disadvantage in a combat situation is that you would certainly have to be behind cover to reload the bow or you would be cut down. A traditional longbow can be nocked on the go.
Cheers!
This was interesting and educating video! Helpful for my own project! :D
But I noticed there was a thing which made me ponder: what about gaffe lever, build-in lever and gastraphetes? Will you do video about their mechanical advantage in future?
In terms of practicality it seems the goats foot is the simplest to use and maintain. Although the Cranequin seems to have that beat (I’m assuming it’s more of a later 15th century innovation?)
Is there a particular reference to where or when specific draw methods were used/created? Or were certain methods preferred based on circumstance?
That’s a broad question but any help would be wonderful:)
Great vid cheers!
I would think the spanning belt or stirrup are most practicall, yes no mechanical advantage so a lower draw weight, but easy to use, as you just wear the belt and the stirrup is attached to the crossbow.
What a interesting video! I appreciate your works.
Well done 👍 always informative
Thanks for your work!
Interesting video. I bought that book back in 2001 and I found it to be very good. Cheers from Norway :)
Love your videos and your approach to the various subjects, keep up the good work.:-)
Tod, have just discovered you during my lunch break, and will be coming back to your fantastic videos again and again. I'm a miniature sculptor, and a keen military historian, so read a lot on these subjects and visit a lot of museums and armouries, but what is hard to come by are the practical insights which you can only really get by handling weapons and armour in person, coupled with historical knowledge.
I've actually got that same edition of the Payne-Gallwey book in my library, his views on siege engines and composite bows are dated now, but curious where, other than depictions of weird bolt designs, you think he goes wrong on crossbows? He was something of a pioneer in actually making, and firing replica weapons (or real museum pieces in some cases!), and my feeling is that he now seems dated because he was swayed, and limited, by the academic authorities of his day, more than anything else?
The goat’s foot is a cam, such as is used on modern compound bows and crossbows. The draw weight changes (lightens) over the course of the draw.
could you build a two ton cranequin crossbow?
Excellent for hunting Police Helicopters.
I wouldn't want to be near that kind of thing if the limbs ever snap.
@@seneca983 Well... You wouldn't want to be near an early gunpowder weapon if something goes wrong, either....
How large a crossbow would you end up with? Would you need to mount it to shoot it? That sounds like one big beast! I wonder what size of ammunition you would need for it?
I wonder how much that prod would weigh? I recall, in Sir Ralph-Payne Gallwey's book, (pg 150), he quotes Alonzo Martinez Del Espinar, 1644, who made a generalized statement that the prod should weigh no more than the tiller. "It should be seen therefore that the stock is of the same weight as the steel bow." How accurate a statement that really was, or how closely it was ever followed, i have no idea :)
You'd have to use aluminium or something for the body, i wouldn't trust wood for that
Ok, so if I'm working with yew then the double belt is my best choice for a heavy wooden bow. Thanks Tod 👍
Good overview, thanks :D
Love the new intro mate
This is my go-to medieval crossbow channel.
You're doing a damn good job convincing me to get a crossbow
great work, fantastic vid
Great vid Tod
This video is amazing
3:50 and 5:00
That is super weird, wouldn't it make more sense to keep the stirrup on the ground and use the power of your legs and back to draw with the belt, using movement similar to deadlift or squat? Also, you could hide behind pavise because you crouched, instead of standing on one leg and then straightening, showing upper parts of the body above the pavise. This way, in three-person squad loading guy and pavise holder would be hidden at all times, only shooter would show up for a moment.
At first I never believed how a crossbow could pierce plate armor but now that I see that a crossbow can have 2000 lbs of force behind it it starts to make sense.
As the guy above me said, they really can’t pierce plate much. They might make a hole, but the guy wearing it would be fine. The reason for this is because crossbows have an extremely short power stroke. Thats the distance the bow is accelerating the bolt. A long bow can produce a similar amount of damage as a cross bow because it has a power stroke 2-3 times longer.
@@Specter_1125it also needs to move 2.5 kilos of metal + the string. So there's some force loss there
Great video
Very interested in the gastraphetes mechanical advantage as well. Such a clever machine that thing is
The mechanical advantage for that is 1:1. It's a straight "push" and maximum draw weight is determined by the shooters weight!
For all things Tod click 'ere and, of course, loads of videos ...
todcutler.com/
yo - tod. fine video. thanks from texas.
Glad you showed the the cranequin crossbow, but there is another even better one, its like the Cranequin or crank is how we call it here, but instead of one arm, you use your two feet on a pedal system like that of a bicycle.
Great video.
Loving these vids. I have one fact that beats all facts in your shows Todd. You look better with your beard
the goat's foot reminds me of the Cobra r9 sytem, but i dont know how they do, the mechanism is integrated to the crossbow
Great video, as always. I have barely high school shop level skills (enough to do good maintenance), so actually crafting arms and armor looks like magic to me. "The Book of the Crossbow" by Ralph Gellway, on my reading list. Thanks! Also for the warning about the accuracy of the other books on the topic. Is there one that is less inaccurate than the others?
I want that ballestrino!😍😍❤
Great video.
It would be very interesting to see a maximum range comparison of these different crossbows.
The range of a crossbow does not change significantly along with the draw weight, once you have gone beyond models that can be drawn with two fingers. After that, it is almost the same through the entire spectrum, with only very slight increase. However, the weight of the bolts goes up, both necessary weight in order for the bolts not to break, as much as possible maximum weight, which dramatically increases the energy that is delivered upon impact.Check out WARBOWS by Mike Loads for more on crossbow range and use: amzn.to/2VgGWD3
@@rattazustra7607 does he go into depth on crossbows?
Thanks
Yes, he does. The book covers longbows, composite bows, crossbows and asymmetrical bows quite extensively.
Спасибо Вам за интересные видео. Люблю Ваш канал!
Откровение 14:12 12 [а] Здесь терпение святых: здесь соблюдающие заповеди Божии и веру в Иисуса.
Tod, have we seen you shoot a cranequin crossbow? I'd love to see a speed comparison compared to the windlass crossbow. Also I was very surprised the Cranequin had such a crazy ratio advantage, all this time I thought the Windlass was the most powerful system!
ua-cam.com/video/ErQrmmYSWGM/v-deo.html
Type 16 thanks mate! An actual Tod video I must have missed!
I subbed your channel some time ago. No regreats.
I'm used to the foot stirrup method.
Although I did use the book to make the lightweight hunting crossbow. It turned out very well
when you do the sitting span you should lift your feet off the ground and push away with your legs, that gives the sitting span the power of the belt hook one at least.
I don't want to sound harsh with this criticism. I don't even mean it as such, only as a suggestion for improvement. (because I've been looking at your channel for about 2 hours or less, and yet still love it XD)
Measuring multiple rotations, and a longer distance, would improve the exact maths. But I know these specifically aren't intended as exact science measurements.
I was thinking about the same thing.
The goat's foot is simply awesome!
Tod, you need to write a book documenting this
Doubler Pulley: Double the weight (Of pull) is also double the distance. The pull distance on the bow doesn't change, unless you build the bow specific to the pulley. The draw-weights he listed were estimates of course, you might have a stronger or weaker back, for example, but there's also variables in the bow you can adjust, and with a longer pull, you can do without as much pull weight. (You need a longer bolt, and typically broader arms as well.)
guy congratulations you really have a lot of wisdom with medieval weapons what a pity that i am not in a condition to buy here in brazil things are difficult our currency is low but i will make some savings for purchase
You can use the spanning belt better, by making a squad motion: using both legs and drawing the string by getting up in a standing position.
Although the power stroke would remain woefully short, could the high mechanical advantage on the screw jack allow for much more powerful assassin bows?
10.Be a strongman competitor and shoot it like a regular bow
Why didn't they build the stirrup for two feet outwards from the centre? Almost like a T shape. That way you would be central, balanced and it would be far easier to draw. Is there some reason I'm not considering?
There were large 'siege' crossbows made with iron stirrups wide enough to take both feet, thus presumably giving greater stability and allowing more strength to be applied to the draw. Although I can't quote any off the top of my head, there are some contemporary depictions of these in use which I have seen.
In the Islamic world flexible, leather stirrups were often used, and these could sometimes (going on the art of the era) be large enough to take both feet too, although obviously, care needs to be taken when interpreting medieval art.
It's probably a construction, or forging issue. A T-shape would probably be a bit more difficult than a U-shape to forge, not to mention how the crossbow is constructed to begin with, as it is at its most base form a wooden rectangle, and I don't think hammering a spike down the middle would prove a decent enough structural integrity for a crossbow with a T-shaped stirrup.
Standing with your feet together puts you significantly off balance. It was probably for this reason and the general discomfort of such a posture that it was avoided.
@@baronprocrastination1722 Not at all. Not in the slightest. You'd just chisel a cut into it instead of bending it around. With the workmanship that goes into the decorations etc of even the lowliest of crossbows adding a chisel into the mix and probably still about the same amount of hammer blows would not stop anyone.
Might have to do with balance. It would be a pain to shoot a crossbow with that much steel out in front - unless you added a counterweight in the back and made it even heavier, in which case it would be a pain to march with.
Do you think you could apply a ratchet lever from a ratchet strap onto a crossbow? It seems to be very similar to Cranequin.
Great video ! Does a 3edged bolt work better than a 4 edged bolt for armor penetration ? Just curios .
I would think that the largest advantage of the stirup is keeping the arms clean/dry and not getting them scuffed up and cut with the gunk on the bottom of a person's footware.
I see that goat's foot are usually operated with a single hand, and usually lever is kind of short.
What if we used a bigger goat's foot, with a longer lever, and we used it both ands to leverage.
Could we apply greater force this way? Could we reload more powerful crossbows this way, let's say 1000lb?
I think you can do it combined with sitting span technique.
Great video. Do you think you could pull the goat-foot lever with a luggage scale to see how much strength is required at the hardest part of the exercise?
I'd like to see a big powerlifter or strongman try to span different crossbow by hand. Make a collab with Eddie Hall.
Also, I'd like to see a comparison in the time it takes to load each one and other consideration that need to be taken into account (like having to sit down, having to stand up, not being able to run, being able to reload on horseback, etc).
Have you though about constructing a rapid fire crossbow such as the one designed by Leonardo da Vinci?
Tod, Thanks for the wonderful video. I wonder if you can tell me why the crossbow string contacts the top rail? I can understand the necessity with regard to traditional bows. As the limbs would otherwise obstruct the projectile. But having looked at modern Crossbows with limbs on each side of the rail. the cable is still in contact with the rail. I have always set up my cable to the height of the center of the bolt. It appears to make no difference to accuracy. But the cable { bow string } lasts twice as long. I would really like to know. Cheers.
Oh! Got it. Goats foot and compound cams are working on the same principle. Lovely how geometry works
Tod your videos are great. Question on crossbows, why are the stocks so long? They protrude so far past the trigger, like you said using the stirrup, it can get awkward. Why not cut it down some or make use of it and extend the draw length. Its not like you would need to brace it against ur shoulder like you would a rifle. The mechanisms used to draw the string either don’t go to the end of the stock or i don’t see why it cant be made shorter. So why not have the whole stock end right after the trigger/hand space need to use the trigger?
ty
What if you modified the stirrup so that instead of a loop to put one foot through, it's a T-piece to put both feet on (or maybe a double loop?) Then you wouldn't be off-centre.
Tod's Workshop vs JoergSprave would a battle of the ages worthy of saga and song
Awesome
You should try to make a reverse limb midevil crossbow that would be cool mix modern with midevil styles
Tod do you have any interpretation that in which century the steel nuts came around? I'm making a 12thC crossbow but don't know if steel nut is good for that...
perhaps they stepped on the stirrup, similar to the spanning belt, just with your hands doing the belt part. seems like it'd be easier than what you do in the video.
That's like trying to draw a bow while having your left arm already outstretched. You can get more power from distributing the load onto two muscle groups working in opposing directions.
Did any crossbows have a built in goat’s foot like spanning lever? The screw jack was built in but it takes a while to reload.
The goat's foot moves along an anchorpoint and is not fixed in place, so you'd need a new, probably less efficient, system. Another problem would be the unnecessary extra weight from having a big metal lever on it, as well as that being a weakness that would need to be repaired often.
Seems to me that the Goat's Foot (or something like it) could be incorporated into the crossbow itself, making for a very quick-shooting weapon. Could also be made to do two strokes in sequence with consequent increase in draw weight.
Could a full sized war bow be put on a crossbow stock and use a multi stage goats foot type mechnism draw the bow in stages all the way?
It seems there is a strong correlation between how long a crossbow type takes to reload and how much power it has once loaded. More time; more power: I wonder what was preferred in what scenarios for crossbow-wielding warriors choosing between fire rate and penetration/impact?
My understanding is that they had to opt for ever higher penetration because amor was getting so much better. Higher fire rate was rather pointless if you couldn't get through the amor of your opponent. Then again I have seen tests which seem to suggest you cannot get through plate armor with a crossbow bolt anyway. So honestly I would have loved to see more tests and discussions around these choices myself. The crossbows kept getting stronger and slower, and there must have been a reason for it.
You should rename it "Tod's Armoury"
Very good, thank you for sharing. Now begs the question, why not have a stirrup big enough to accommodate both feet? That would then allow one to draw as much as in the sitting position, surely.
It could potentially weigh down the front to much making it harder to aim
The Olde Handgonne had the exact same thought. a T shape would allow using both feet yet be very small, even smaller than the standard type.
What I'd like to see is a comparison between the crossbows in shooting speed in relation to shooting power. So we know what gives us the most "bang for your buck", where bang is draw force and buck is reload time.
I would say the goatfoot one.
Tod did you ever try to span a crossbow with a stirrup and a spanning belt doing a squat-like motion? You seem to always span it by lifting your leg like if you were walking up the stairs. Squatting can produce much more force and unless you have a back problem, that would seem like a natural way to span a crossbow with a belt.
So, in a modern context, could we now lengthen the draw of a medieval style crossbow and keep the insane draw weights? As I understand that would drastically increase the bolt speed.
There are three ways to increase draw length of a bow.
First, make the bow limbs out of a material with higher ductility. The greater the ductility, the more the limbs can bend before being permanently deformed. However, there is a tradeoff. Materials with higher ductility have lower tensile strengths and cannot withstand the same amount of draw force as more brittle materials.
Second, make the bow limbs longer. A longer bow limb will be able to displace farther at the tip. However, by increasing bow limb length, you increase the limb inertia with the cube of length. That means more elastic energy is being consumed just to accelerate the bow limbs.
Third, make the bow limbs thinner. A thinner bow limb can have a smaller bend radius without yielding and can therefore be drawn a lot farther than a thicker bow limb. However, a thinner bow limb will be weaker, and therefore will not withstand the same amount of draw force.
So in summary, it is not possible to increase draw length without sacrificing either draw force or propulsion efficiency.
@@johnbarron4265modern crossbows with carbon fibre+pulleys
What method is the quickest?
3:45
Ladies and gentlemen, I present you what I call
*_Crossbow yoga_*
Excellent video with great information. I'm developing a realistic game system for medieval times and your videos have had all the super-niche information that I never thought I'd find anywhere! Thanks for the help!
Hows that game going and what is it called or do you have a beta test version?