Challenger: A Rush To Launch
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- Опубліковано 7 вер 2024
- An Emmy Award winning documentary about flight STS-51-L and what all lead up to the Challenger explosion and the loss of 7 Astronauts.
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I myself am an engineer, and I can empathize. Management never listens to us engineers, they are all about making the crazy deadlines they put in place without consulting us first, and then blame us when we fail to meet that insane deadline.
I bet the same thing happened with the MCAS system on the Boeing 737 Max.
I call bullshit on you being an engineer.
@@bp2352 Why say that ? ...he's got no reason to lie about his profession.
@@bp2352 Go find someone who cares dolt
@@bp2352 -- You sound like a manager.
RIP Allan J. McDonald. A man who did the right thing even when it could have cost his job.
"Always, always do the right thing for the right reason at the right time with the right people and you will have no regrets for the rest of your life." Allan J. McDonald.
May his soul rest in peace. His wisdom, knowledge and bravery will live on in the next generation of engineers.
That's some pretty amazing life advice. I like it!
Same for Boisjoly considered as a whistleblower. He lost his job and died of cancer.
Oh he passed, sorry to hear this, he was a good man who did the right thing
Right but what is right and wrong in a world of ifs and buts ?
Allan McDonald passed away on March 9th, 2021. Thank you for all your service to our space program, and may this serve as a reminder to listen to those with the knowledge and the experience that could save lives.
NEVER BE IN A HURRY .
i will remember you always,,, such a gentleman. you family shoudbe so proud xxx
Just a legendary human
What a guy he was. I never knew he passed.
I read about that to, may he rest in peace . He was brave enough to stand up against the management and recommended against launching but his superiors overruled him.
"A delay is better than a disaster"
Not when it comes to big business and their worthless greenbacks...
not if you do not have investors! if you are founded by government..delay is not an option!
Computer User What a joke. As if Republicans are the only ones. Both parties are fucked, and you have been fooled into trusting one, bastardizing the other.
What a sheep.
Not for US-Americans. Business has always trumped lives.
Arguing with Ignorance Big business wasn’t in charge of the space shuttle. Big government was.
This is an occurring theme throughout every industry. Management always thinks they know better than the Engineers.
tenshi7angel I will second that.
management thinks with dollar signs in their eyes, and little regard for safety - that shit just slows things down and increases costs.. Good reason the greedy fucks should be burned alive.
C'est la vie...
@@whitesquirrel4131 Usually management is far away from the place where deaths usually happen.
should have listened to the engineers!! this did not have to happen!!
I'm so happy Allan's story was recorded before he passed, what a good guy.
Saddened to hear of Mr. Allan McDonald's passing. What courage this man had for not being forced to agree to launch and for being brave enough to reveal what happened.
The Earth is flat.
Don't be a sheep.
@@111highgh This is a joke, right ?
@@111highgh
The earth is a globe.
Don't be a mong.
@@111highgh The earth is not flat, it has been proven. Stop posting nonsense you conspiracy theory nutjob
😂🤣😅
Adding insult to injury: Allan McDonald and the other engineers thought that if Challenger did explode it would blow immediately upon ignition of the SRBs, right on the pad. When that didn't happen and she appeared to lift off normally, they breathed a sigh of relief thinking they'd dodged a bullet. Imagine the agony of seeing her explode a minute later.
I remember Roger saying he still expected it to blow he was just saying he thought it would happened right on the pad sooner but he was waiting for it cause he was checking the seconds on his watch or some whatever he said engineers used he said it was still going to blow regardless if it didn't happened right away.
Actually they were surprised and relieved when it didn't blow up on the pad itself, but eventually it did, and they knew exactly what happened.
I'm sure a lot of the management and the people who still called for the launch had an arrogant: “I told you so,” thought when it launched without problems.
Then probably planned to play the blame game.
wasnt a normal lift off was slow looked roll started early to me at leaast mb wrong
I am a retired Electrical Engineer; I designed FM and TV stations, microwave links, and did human exposure to radio frequency energy safety studies. I just read Allan McDonalds's book Truth, Lies, and O-Rings: Inside the Space Shuttle Challenger Disaster." He says he never felt that he was a hero, but he was. He was. I see that he recently died, on March 6, 2021. Rest in peace, Mr. McDonald, you WERE a hero.
That’s a great book! He 100% was a hero. He did what was right. Sadly NASA leadership was sloppy again in 2003 which lead to the Columbia disaster. That also could have been prevented
with the columbia and challenger shuttle disasters, I wonder how the big and mighty ever sleep at night.....
@@lonelypigeon7562 Given the general contempt the big-shots have for the 'little people'? Like babies, honestly.
I remember the cover of Discovery Magazine. "Were the odds really 1 in 32?"
the truth lies and o-ring very shocking how managment over ruled the engieers just like they did with columbia 17 years latter.read the book bring columbia home
The people who ignored the engineers should have been duct-taped to the outside of the next Shuttle so they could make close-up launch safety observations.
Thank you for this comment !
I was feeling low after watching and reliving in memory this tragic event and your comment brought a great uplift to my dark mood :-)
"Duct-taped to the outside of the next Shuttle"... PRICELESS !!
LOL! Okay Guys, keep a close eye on those O-rings. Scream as loud as humanly possible if you see fire coming from these seams...we'll catch you...
BOOM!!! best comment ever.
amen to that
why didnt any off the Nasa people who overruled the engineers at Morton Thiokol recommending not to launch were held legally accountable for the negligent deaths of the astronauts?
As far as I’m concerned, Allan McDonald and his engineers are heroes. I just wish NASA had listened and there would’ve been a happier ending.
How often do politicians listen to scientists. Pretty common problem.
Had anyone listened the lame goose program would have never started. A fantastic waist of money more political than scientific.
@@keithparkhill8546 I'd say that depends on how you define political. Without Politics the space agency would have never happened to begin with. Politicians didn't care about the science of going to the Moon - they wanted to beat the Russians.
Space Shuttle allowed scientific endeavors that would have never been possible without it, but again, the Reagan Administration didn't actually care about science.
Reagan had some weird idea that the government would actually be turning a profit off commercialization of space using NASA. That has worked to some degree, as a private company that wants to launch a satellite will pay large sums to do so.
But the sums paid to NASA to do such operations has never actually covered the cost.
In a way it could be argued that tax dollars operating NASA have supplemented the capitalization of space.
Of course there's nothing unusual about that. Most advances in technology happens because of governmental demands and endeavors.
Jarod Strain well boris Johnson was taking his scientists too seriously
@@notmelegacy6185 not really sure what Boris Johnson has to do with the topic. Care to elaborate?
It's really sad that this documentary almost eliminated the role of Roger Boisjoly. He was the Morton-Thiokol engineer who inspected recovered SRMs and had the data on the after-launch condition of the rocket O-rings. Mr. Boisjoly was the one who made the correlation between launch temperature and O-ring erosion, i.e., as the launch temp approached freezing there was more damage to the O-rings. He let his people at Morton-Thiokol know this in no uncertain terms. He went to the mat with it (he was a hot-head) because he knew he was right. This event was not an accident, but it was not intentional either. It was a preventable incident that was caused by NASA managers with "Go-fever" and Morton-Thiokol managers who gave-in to business pressure. Also eliminated from the soft news doc was the brilliance of Dr. Richard Fineman and his frozen O-ring demonstration at the hearings. Lesson: Listen to the engineers and heed the data.
When you read the testimony, specifically the February 10 testimony, in the Rogers Commission Report, it doesn't quite play out the way the film implies. What he says to the Commission was:
1. There was a phone call on the 27th, which he was on.
2. On this phone call, Morton Thiokol made a no-fly recommendation based on blow-by data.
3. Morton Thiokol then reversed this recommendation after a short meeting taken off the phone call because NASA stated that the data were "inconclusive" (this is MacDonald's own word, and he states that the data *were* inconclusive).
4. MacDonald cannot explain the reversal of recommendation, as he was at Cape Kennedy, and not at Morton Thiokol, and states essentially that "you'd have to ask the people in that part of the meeting". Rogers himself cautions the commission that any testimony provided by MacDonald on what happened at the meeting anywhere but Cape Kennedy is hearsay.
This is where Roger Boisjoly comes in. He was at Morton Thiokol ("Wasatch" in the testimony), and he could directly testify to what occurred on that end of the phone call. Further, he was able to testify directly to the Commission on the blow-by effects seen in testing.
There were two shuttle launches where blow by occurred in the joints during very warm temperatures on launch day. This is the argument that NASA gave Thiokol. This meant that Thiokol’s assessment of low temperature launches leading to O ring erosion was inconclusive. Thiokol had no argument in response.
Yeah I remembered when I was watching documentaries they spoke more on Mr Boisjoly was really the one that was the no nonsense on the management decision to launch.
I agree. I think that is a disappointing oversight in this documentary.
I cannot imagine any circumstance why Your comment is so far down and has that less likes. To me You summed up right to what happned according to what we just heard and seen.
Be well and keep on doing such nice comments.
The fact that Al McDonald was removed from his position at MT speaks *volumes* .... The managers had absolute blatant disregard for human life. Seven human lives. Shameful.
They should have been responsible for thier deaths...
Reagan pressured NASA to launch...he's responsible
Ken Brownfield
Lol
@@kenbrownfield6584 He did not.
Ken Brownfield Fake news.
It is sad that both Shuttles lost were when managers decided they knew more about engineering than engineers and overrode the engineers decisions.
Why even hire engineers?
They are the legally bound professionals.
Just a pain in the ass, I guess...
I'm not an engineer and I know good and damn well that cold temps makes rubber hard and un-pliable. Who the hell doesn't know that? LOL
Reminds me of talks with my late dad. He was an engineer (supervisor & quality control) who worked on the Abrams tank. Often told me his bosses would sometimes override his concerns about QC. Seems like this problem is part of corporate culture
Implying the "managers" weren't engineers as well...
dingo By that time, they had obviously let their manager hat take over from their engineer hat.
It's quite chilling seeing the crew walk out smiling and waving knowing what's about to happen.
The Crews of the Challenger and Columbia thought that those at NASA was looking out for them...How WRONG they were!
They hit the firmament. Everything is lies and cover up. My opinion, of course. I'm not a rocket scientist. I do however, have eyes.
This loss was not nessesary!
Props to Allan McDonald for standing up and doing what's right.
And don't forget Roger Boisjoly!
..No Truer Words Spoken
glad he refused to sign off on the launch stood up to those idiots
Correct!! Ashame they never listened to him! There's another interview with him where he mentions Columbia! Talks about ethics
@@jamesbonde4470 go take your wild conspiracy theories somewhere else mate...
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled"
- Richard Feynman
Neil Amadeus Yudhistira Oh man... this quote shook me. Never heard of it but it shook me man, even more so because it is from Mr. Feynman
Right on point.
Tesla > cult of Feynman
A Nobel prize in physics
I was a child watching that launch in elementary school so excited because a teacher was going to space. I will never forget seeing the challenger go down and everyone asking what happened to the brave astronauts. I think for many of us, it was our first experience with the loss of human life.
I was in 6th grade, sad news over that weekend.
"A major malfunction"... that must be the mother of all understatements.
Major malfunction = clusterfuck
True but the information comes with a couple seconds delay so when the Challenger blew up it took a couple of seconds in the control room before everything became chaos
They knew that something had happened, but didn't know WHAT had happened at that point.
diatonix2 you can’t claim it was inaccurate or untrue to say there’d obviously been a major malfunction
He was speaking on a Public Address system, he was hardly going to scream ‘What in shitting Christ has just happened, the shuttle has just been thundercunted, rip in pepperonis’ at the top of his lungs.
When the man in charge of "signing off" will not do it the launch should have been scrubbed.
Allan McDonald has to be one of the bravest men I've ever seen.
Rest In Peace Allan and Roger, thank you for being honorable men who tried to stop the Challenger from launching. This tragedy happened on my birthday, I will never forget.
Allan McDonald is a perfect example of what using your brain should look like! Takes a lot of courage to stick to your convictions despite everyone around you saying otherwise. Don’t follow the crowd!
Allan Mcdonald was a fucking legend. Not many people would have the balls to stand up to such high ranking officials like he did, let alone come forward in a national court hearing with information that could have possibly end his career right there just because he felt he had to do the right thing
I cant believe they survived the explosion. Died on impact of hitting the water. I think i would rather die in an explosion. Than being scared shit less falling out the sky knowing ur going to die any second
@Robert Hall They were concious, they even wore the oxigen masks trying to survive, it was a 2 and half minutes fall.
@Robert Hall I read a NBC report today about this question, and the fall was actually very stable, they fell into a ballistc arc trajectory, they were not even spinning, acording to the investigators, it is very probable that they were concious until their last seconds.
@F P
Glass houses.
@Ef77
You too.
So much to learn.
@F P Hughes probably had to go to college for that. Nobody is born that stupid.
Engineers: we need to wait a few more hours PLEASE JUST GIVE IT TIME
Managers: IT WILL BE FINE DONT BE STUPID LAUNCH THE DAMN SHUTTLE
*ship explodes*
*Nasa suspends engineers*
Was that before they knew the truth?
@@JerryAsbury1985 After actually. Boisjoly was fired and black balled after blowing the whistle at the congressional hearing, and many others got quickly shuffled off. To my knowledge no NASA or Thiekol administrator was ever prosecuted for the criminal negligence, or sued and held civilly accountable. Most of the top NASA brass would resign, but many in the higher decision making tiers remained even after Columbia.
Like 99
@@phoenixrising4573 Bingo. Lawrence Mulloy - the primary NASA manager bullying Thiokol (holding the next contract over their heads) - should have been charged with negligent manslaughter at minimum. Just got shuffled off to a less public assignment.
The engineers was overpowered by the managers. They warned them that they shouldn't launch because of the freezing cold weather. The management should have been imprisoned for this killing
18:41 that mans reaction makes my heart drop. I can’t imagine what the workers felt when they realized they lost their crew.
I still cry when I watch videos of the Challenger. I was in 6th grade, 12 years old, when I watched this happen on TV with my science class. We, or at least, I didn't understand what had happened at the moment we saw the Challenger explode, but after the TV was turned off my science teacher said that it didn't seem like a normal launch. It wasn't until got home that I found out that the Challenger actually exploded. My parents didn't let me watch a lot of the news coverage but they did let me watch Regan's address to the nation and I cried through the entire address. I think that was the first time I realized not only how brave those astronauts were, but how fragile and precious life is.
Me too
Same here, exact experience
I remember standing in front of my TV, watching the launch live. When the accident occurred, I was dumb-struck. I couldn't believe my eyes. I never left the TV the rest of the day. So tragic.
I was 9 years old, and here in the UK I was doing a school project about space so I took a big interest in the Challenger launch. I think for many people, there's an incident in the news that happens when you're young when you suddenly realise the world really isn't as nice as you think it is and it leaves you feeling shocked and unsettled. The Challenger disaster was that for me.
Well said, Columbia accident and 9/11 was what did that for me
Gotta go with your gut. Guy had intuition to not sign a paper that would haunt him forever
I would never, never, never sign anything that I know would harm humans, I don't care if I got fired because of it. I would have never given the go.
It was completely the contrary. He took a cold hard look at the information from the previous low temperature launches and concluded that launching in even colder weather was heading towards a cliff even if they couldn't precicely predict at what temperature the cliff was. It was the managers that made a "gut" decision that since previous launches in cold weather had gone okay that there was enough redundancy build into the system that there wouldn't be a catastrophic event. Just a burned out O-ring or two and that was nothing to delay a mission over.
His gut had nothing to do with it . His decision was based on the technical data , the performance of seals under cold conditions and other known factors as it should be .
However he did have the balls to go against what must have been pressure from management . What I’d call a stand up guy .
Nasa had grown slack , and caved under pressure to launch from the media , for their funding budget , the shuttle program ran massively over budget and behind schedule .
The design was not the best from very early . Their was a much better design put forward but I’ll not go into it here .
@@Galactis1 In fact, the fact of being fired because of not wanting to harm humans, and as a result of them going ahead with something that caused harm to humans, is very good grounds to sue the fucking shit out of them and along with it press criminal charges upon them for what they actually did.
No gut was involved. They wanted to fly outside of the engineering parameters and he didn't want to say that was ok
R.I.P. Mr. McDonald we need more like you in this world.
It's maddening to watch how 7 lives could have avoided death and then somebody decided to fool nature - it is still so heart wrenching to watch after so many years.
Rest in Peace, fearless astronauts. Rest in Peace 😔
I remember thinking, after seeing the early pictures of the shuttle/rocket with ICICLES hanging off it, that it would be a very bad idea to launch. I just had an overwhelming feeling of trepidation about it. Sure enough, it was a disaster! And the aftermath, when all the "bigwigs" were trying to explain it away because of this or that, and Feynman asked a page to bring him a glass of ice water. He dropped a sample of the o-ring into the water for a few minutes, then pulled it out and SNAPPED it. All the bigwigs had nothing much to say after that. It was proven that this "accident" SHOULD NOT have happened. But because of their "shortsightedness" and arrogance, 7 people lost their lives that day.
@Cheryl Thorpe: Your on the right track with your concern about "icing", but, your looking at the wrong component. Morton Thiokol had done many full live static tests of the SRB's in extreme cold weather with no failures. Lets start by asking the right "?"... What happens if the fuel line between the fuel pump and the motor of your car is cut?
Mr McDonald explains it all very simply and very clearly- no over the top technicalities.Very very easy to understand what he is talking about.Good job.
What would be the point of having more people like Mr. McDonald ?....They, too, would just be ignored by the know-it-alls!
Two critical points that are too often forgotten with tragic results:
Haste makes waste.
Nature is the boss.
I remember EXACTLY where I was when this happened, I took my daughter for an eye exam to Kingston Ontario, there was tv in the waiting room and I watched this in shock with 2 innocent faces looking at me wondering why I was crying .
The blood of the astronauts are on the hands of those managers!!! The engineers did the best they could. The explosion is not the appropriate "I told you so" moment, but it's a very terrible and harsh teachable moment. The worst part is that this wasn't completely out of anyone's control. The managers chose the outcome for the astronauts by ignoring the *engineers* who made the rocket. It's mindblowing really..
The managers should have had to walk around for the rest of their lives with " I TOLD YOU SO!" tattooed on their forehead as a punishment.
Oh I would've done more than an I told you so, I would've laid into them so hard for what they did.
Christa Mcaullife's backup and fellow teacher Barbara Morgan flew to the International Space Station in 2007 aboard Endeavour on STS 118. Notice how STS 118 had none of the publicity or recognition that STS 51 L had prior to launch. After Challenger, even after Columbia, NASA finally put a teacher in space. and almost no one knows about it. and in one of those moments that when you hear about it you think "that's how it should be", Barbara Morgan aboard the International Space Station taught children that had gathered at the Challenger Center for Space Science and Education. thus completing and honoring the mission of Christa Mcaullife .
The reason it wasn't a big deal by the time she flew was because several other non astronauts had flown by then. Of course by the time Morgan flew she was a certified astronaut. On paper of course. She flew once and quit. She was a fish out of water and should have stayed in the class room.
she was still a teacher and she still flew in space and she still taught children while in orbit, which is what Mcaullife was supposed to do.
***** agreed
After seeing her friend's Shuttle blowing into a million pieces and knowing her awful fate.. it took balls of steel for Morgan to climb into one and blast off. Takes some guts that
She flew after both Challenger and Columbia had been lost. But while she was brave, so was every other astronaut that flew after watching their friends die, some of them at least having watched their friends die twice on missions. Every astronaut is a hero for what they're willing to risk to advance science and knowledge, in hopes of bettering humanity.
I may have enjoyed this as much as any Challenger documentary I've seen. Have to purchase McDonald's book now - he is impressive. Great work.
My father worked at sea world in orlando during this time. They would all walk out into the crowd to look up and watch a lift off. I use to be able to watch lift off on tv and walk slowly to the back door of the house and see the shuttle coming up over the trees. Daddy said that the sea world visitors that day applauded when it exploded because they thought it was part of lift off. Dad said he had seen so many lift offs that he knew that something horrible had happened. I was a senior in high school. What a horrible day.
Its not mentioned here. But one of the huge limits of the shuttle was from its booster's size. The diameter and the length of each segment was restricted by the railroad they used to transport them. There were four segments. They were built, fueled, and refurbished in Utah. This is why they had to assemble them as pieces in the first place. Thus why they had to use O-rings at all.
A company called Aerojet had already built a much larger solid rocket motor that was taller heavier and more powerful than the shuttle SRBs, It didn't need to be put together and it arrived by barge as one piece. This would have negated the possibility of a Challenger altogether, No O-rings at all. No limits to the temperature they could launch at. It would have also increased the payload and range of the shuttle by a colossal amount. This motor was built in the mid 60's and called the "AJ-260" It is to date the most powerful rocket motor ever test fired.
The reason they didn't use it or even consider it (it was offered in proposals by aerojet) was and still is because the boosters on the shuttle and now NASA's SLS were built in Utah by Thoikol. By coincidence Utah's senator heads the congressional comity over space budgets for NASA. This is one of his jobs as a senator for Utah. So you can guess who always kicked, screamed and bitched when anyone ever mentioned building shuttle boosters outside of Utah. Aerojet's boosters would have been built in Florida. They would have been superior to Thoikol's (now Orbital ATK) boosters in every single way.
*committee
nasa is a joke
are you correcting typos on the youtube message board@@fourk_
Crazy how politics can always eff things up
I remember watching it live on teleision when I was in Eighth Grade. Anytime I watch a documenary about thr space shuttle an show the footage of Challenger exploding, and President Reagan's address to the nation that evening, and even 30 years on. I still shed a tear of profound sadness. that in the space of 73 seconds we lost Seven brave indiviuals whose sole purpose was to explore and understand space, and our place in the universe. R.I.P and God speed the crew of STS-51-L
Life can be interesting...I was in a hospital bed watching the shuttle on TV close to death as a young teenager from a car accident. Who would have thought I would be working the Space Shuttle program 8 years later and worked the program until it retired in 2011. Allen was a true champion to risk his career to expose this.
I watched the Challenger accident from my backyard. I was just a kid, but now at 41 my lifetime of nightmares have eased a bit. Christa McAuliffe inspired me; I became a middle school and high school teacher, and my daughter's middle name is Christa. Every year on January 28 I share my memories and the details of Challenger with my students, hoping they will always remember.
Really cool. I always remembered the bumper stickers that came out after the accident, I forget by who, that said, "I touch the future. I teach.", and the name Christa McCauliffe underneath.
Youre an example of that by how you ended up living your life, and choosing to teach as well. I think thats great, and its nice to know atleast something good came from what was such a tragedy.
Bless you and your family.
they rolled the dice and gambled with peoples life's and lost. People should have went to Jail.
kevin Jhonson ABSOLUTELY 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
@@somacoma2219 you're 100% wrong. this incident was completely avoidable.
absolutely! If this was an accident where no one knew of any risks it would be a different story, but both Challenger and Columbia were pushed to go with sever flaws that lead to the deaths of both missions. RIP to both crews of Challenger and Columbia, they are all traveling the stars together.
@@Lord_Thistlewick_Flanders You are right. I honestly don't remember posting that muddled comment, half-ass of an excuse. I found this documentary moving the first time I saw it. I am so shocked by the comment in my name, I am wondering if it was someone else? and why.
@@TehAuroraWolf I suppose the line from Hot Fuzz comes to mind "The word 'accident' implies no-one's to blame."
If my teacher was giving lessons from outer space on a Saturday/Sunday, I would have gone to school.
Plus I remember they had VCRs in 1986. The lessons would have been taped anyway and rebroadcast over and over again.
I would have to and we would have seen it on the news too and you can watch that at home
This was my very first disaster I experienced as a young adult. I was very traumatized by it for many months if not years , and to this day, I still have that poster your see in the first few seconds of this documentary. I remember it like yesterday. I was pulling into a small mall listening to the pre launch chat on my car radio thinking , it’s amazing how we can do this sort of thing and their has never been an accident. By the time I got in the mall I was walking pass the then, Radio Shack and noticed many people gathered watching it on TV. I don’t remember anything after that day. But I remember I was so upset that I made a memorial at a print shop where I worked at a time to hang on my wall, of course, I was very young then. I think the most hurtful thing for me at the time was, that the very first civilian, a Teacher, was onboard and a lot of emphasis leading up to it was in the news all the time. Looking back, I think I was really proud and happy for her and I did not even know her. Then as I grew older, it seems one disaster after another came from Concord, Atlantis and in other areas around the world. Then came 911 that was the change factor of not just my life , but the life we all live to this day in 2019.
It's real easy to have courage when your own life is not on the line.
The real courage here was trying to say NO when others in charge could bite back. Even if it fell on deaf ears.
Its like, what pressure was the ones who signed off on it, under? WHY ignore your Engineers?
Outstanding video. Perfect example of why you never put deadlines over safety.
Al McDonald a true Hero in the challenger Aftermath. Thank You Al McDonald to holding to your convictions, your Faith, and to the truth way back when!!!!!!
Yep, great guy, if there would be a hero, that would be him. His attitude is the one of a hero.
Or Arnie Thompson.
@sykprop
Thank you and the 3 others that responded to your post. I will add that a good manager knows both when and when not to override an engineering judgement. The military has overridden engineering decisions many thousands of times. However, those decisions were based upon recognition of the risks associated with both following the engineering assessment and not following that assessment. Sometimes, rarely outside of military actions, is the risk of following the engineering assessment recommendations greater than not doing so. But it does, and has happened.
For a hypothetical example, suppose that astronauts on the space station were themselves in danger of dying if the shuttle did not launch when it was scheduled to launch. That risk could reasonably alter the decision matrix. That, of course, was NOT the sort of factor that resulted in the shuttle disaster!
People like Al McDonald, Roger Boisjoly, and Arnie Thompson are indeed heros. These guys stuck to their conviction that a launch would endanger the shuttle crew (and indeed the whole program) even though they knew that they were risking their own careers!
I eat at McDonald’s
Don’t forget KFC and Popeyes
There’s no shame in delaying any venture. If it means saving lives, delay it for weeks or months, until it’s guaranteed safe travels
You have to appreciate McDonald's desire to do the right thing, even though he knew that he would suffer career-ending consequences. Without him, we might never have truly known what happened, and the utter hubris and irresponsibility behind the accident.
This is certainly the best documentary concerning the disaster, just a shame that those named were never prosecuted in relation to the deaths of seven astronauts. How can anyone give their agreement to flight when their own engineers were telling them that it was not safe, and that a flight may well lead to disaster. If the engineers say it is not safe to launch, you don't go ahead and sign a bit of paper that says it is safe. It was not an accident.
+100SteveB A little thing called pressure from a government agency like NASA. Deadlines and commitments. Engineers knew a problem existed, but they were overruled by the higher-ups. No one saw the dangers of what they were doing until something like this happens. Astronauts knew the risks, but they didn't think about the danger and thought it was just another routine flight, except a civilian was among them. Some paid the price with their jobs or wound up reassigned within their organization.
*****
It really is amazing that Nasa did not learn from the Challenger disaster - listen to your engineers, and listen carefully. Once again those higher up the chain decided to ignore those further down, even though it is those people further down the chain that know when there is, or could be a problem. If the people that know say they need photos, get the damned photos.
+Richard H. Shores
Wasn't Columbia a slightly different form? and that they couldn't save the crew? If they'd registered the strike as a serious problem, so then what? Without any tile repair materials and the resources for EVA exits, etc, I think they told the Columbia crew of the strike but not it's deeper significance. Theer was no point as no-one could do anything.
I think it was chalked up to the perils of space flight.
Yeah, should definitely have been some people in jail over this
They could have extended the mission by putting Columbia in a lifeboat mode, got Atlantis ready to launch - it was being readied already - and rescued the crew, brought them home safely, and then attempted to land Columbia remotely.
"Sigh of relief when it cleared the tower". Says it all. They knew they were playing russian roulette with the crews lives, launching at temperatures that were outside of engineering limitations.
They were playing Russian roulette alright - with a fully-loaded gun.
One would think the crew would question the launch,it would prob end their career but saved their lives.These people are the best and brightest,they had to know the certain conditions could be trouble,to much wind,temperature ,thunderstorms and other weather conditions might be risky.Just saying.the flight commander should be able to pull the plug without repercussions.
@@jerrymarshall2095 I don't think Scobee even knew of the problem with the O-rings.But based on what his widow June said in another documentary,he definitely wasn't his usual self before the launch.He'd usually be enthusiastic and fired up before launch.But before the launch of STS 51-L,there was nervousness and doubt in his voice when he called his wife.The title of the documentary is "Challenger:The Untold Story" if you want to watch it.
I was in fourth grade. Standing on a local pharmacy watching the launch on the TV. And when the explosion happened, we all looked at each other. No words. They knew not launch that day. They knew there were problems. But stupidity took over. May God keep their souls close to his heart.
Imagine good lord what those astronauts would have gone through, utterly utterly incomprehensible 😢, god bless those 7 crew, the families, utterly brutal
Yes Jay. It's so terrible and sad 😪Columbia and the Challanger crew (1986) R. I. P. Never, never forgetting 😪😪❤️❤️
I'm just imagining a nightmare scenario where all of the astronauts survived the breakup, and had the full 2 minutes before impact with the water to realize there was nothing they could do and had no possible way of surviving. We know at least 3 were conscious and thinking clearly enough to turn on their emergency air. God man, if they survived until the water impact then that would have been the most brutal last moments a person is capable of having. I can totally imagine how awful that would have been, Christy suddenly having the joy and wonder on her face turn to terror in a split second. Maybe she looked to the other crew members for some sort of instruction or escape protocol, only to see them as scared and confused as she was. From then, it would have been the most agonizing and hopeless feeling in the world, knowing you have a 0% chance of survival and are just waiting for the inevitable end... i'm really hoping they all lost consciousness within a half minute or so and didn't have to experience the nightmare plunge to their deaths. Evidence seems to show though that isn't the case unfortunately, and some if not all of the crew would have been awake and alert for a decent period of time following the explosion. The only way you could ever get me to travel into space like this would be if I could carry a handgun with me so that I could shoot myself and end it instantly if anything like this ever happened.
@@tankmaster1018 😢the way u described it, I imagined it like it was a movie.
@@tankmaster1018 That's why I really, really hope that the cabin lost pressure and they lost consciousness immediately. Two minutes in that scenario would feel like hours.
@@tjhookit It's literally incomprehensible. The hopelessness of the situation those 7 astronauts would have found themselves in if they all stayed conscious between the breakup and impact with the water actually makes me physically sick to my stomach if I try to imagine myself in any one of their shoes... And we are talking about some of the most badass and well trained humans that ever existed here, which would have just made it that much worse for them knowing that despite the fact that they were as close to real life superhero's as a person could possibly get, it didn't mean a damn thing since a total breakup was never even considered, and therefore there was no contingency or escape plan to even give them a fighting chance.
The only other scenario I can think of that even comes close in terms of the pure horror of the realization that not a single thing in the world is going to prevent your brutal death would be being trapped in one of the World Trade Center buildings above the point of the plane impact, and having to make the impossible decision between burning to death, or jumping and ending it right then and there. Pure nightmare fuel dude
Nobody remembers that the urgency driving the need to launch was the fact that the State of the Union address was scheduled for the evening of the 28th of January, the same day as the launch. Reagan had planned to have a live conversation with McCauliff during the speech.
And the Reagan administration was insistent that NASA "pay for itself." The payload was everything.
35 years ago today on that fateful Tuesday morning on January 28, 1986.
RIP to our 7 astronauts🙏🏻❤️🔭🌌🌹🕊🇺🇸
This brings back a bunch of memories. I worked at MSFC and set up the teleconferences mentioned in this documentary. I even worked along side George Hardy's son at MSFC.
The Shuttle contractors were never ready to launch. It was always a 'game of chicken' to see who would ask for a launch scrub! None of the major contractors wanted to get on the bad side of NASA for being honest and jeopardize the contract.
What a shame the NASA guys mentioned in this documentary 'retired' after their bad decisions and contractor intimidation techniques. Meanwhile, seven brave people lost their lives.
Whistle blowers along with concerned and honest engineers got penalized and pushed aside. Spineless managers up the line would not back them up because of political and business reasons.
I was there listening to it all unfold. The descriptions and wording are highly accurate!
Ken Wells Ken, after living in Cocoa for several years, I am seeing the same stories in SpaceX employees where they are fearful of reporting problems or admitting there are problems due to launch schedule expectations. I've heard from no less than 3 employees that they feel forced to make results, even if they have to do Jerry Rigging to meet these final production/tests at SLC39A. No one was surprised for Sept 2016.
Ken Wells My God I did the same job u did at the Kennedy Space Center. I worked for Lockheed Space Operations and our office worked right alongside NASA literally. Everything u said is spot on. I remember feeling very intimidated by NASA and just came to despise NASA. I wasn’t an ass kisser, which the contractors wanted.
J D OMG I grew up in Rockledge which as u know is right next to Cocoa. I worked at Kennedy Space Center for Lockheed Space Operations and I also set up our teleconferences.
All about finding a manager with ambition, but more integrity than ambition. Needs an attitude that says, "If the engineer says no, then I say no. Not even the fucking POTUS can make me do it until the engineer says yes."
Shame on the mess. None of the key management officials were ever held personally accountable
The engineers knew precisely how the accident would occur if they were allowed to launch. That's truly sad that the engineers were ignored. I was 11 years old going on 12, I remember it like yesterday.
The largest understatement of all time “obviously a major malfunction”. Was marching back from chow at Navy boot camp when it happened and saw the cloud in the sky. Horrible.
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I will never forget , I was South Korea, had just woke and turned on the TV to watch the launch. I cannot tell you the grief I felt watching that live to have witness such an unfortunately tragedy.
I was in the 4th grade when Challenger blew up. Our Phy Ed teacher ran into our classroom and told us all to get into the media center. All I do remember was the looks of horror on my teachers faces when the news showed the replay. I also remember when they did a special Punky Brewster episode where in her school they watched this tragedy. 34 years later it is still hard as hell to watch this.
I understand your pain
The last transmission from Challenger was pilot Mike Smith''s "UH OH!" He was in the right seat and the SRB that failed was on his side. I'll wager he saw the SRB just as it separated from the EFT.
And, all of you are correct, Alan McDonald was a principled, courageous man. God bless him.
Yeah, he probably saw the tip of the booster being loose and crashing into the tip of the external tank.
my uncle was part of the rocket booster engineering team, he was one of many who said dont launch but they chose to anyway.
That's what happens when management refuses to listen to the workforce.
@@mattjohnston7686 Its strange that this is a re-occuring patern among all higher ups. The people in suits that have all the power are the ones that make the most stupid decisions, while the people that have an actual understanding in their field get belittled. Human ignorance at its finest.
Its like the amateur tells the professional what to do.
Crazy world
What was his name?
@@WIDBAU john sucher
That must have been unbelievably heart-wrenching for your uncle!! How horrible!!
I recently went to the Kennedy Space Center, probably my favorite part, and most somber, was the memorial for both the Challenger and Columbia crews. The "entrance" had displays of artifacts/memorabilia that were personal to each crewmember.
I saw them both launch for the first time, and my innocence about space travel died with the Challenger. I remember Colombia's inaugural launch. You never saw a classroom filled with more excited children and adults! As I lay in my bed that fateful Saturday morning, the radio announcer said with tears in his voice, "We lost Columbia on reentry. God help them and us." I knew that space exploration as I had known it ended not with fanfare and cheering, but a fireball and tears.
Misty L. Maybe you worded it wrong or something, but the inaugural Columbia launch definitely didn’t disintegrate on reentry. It did disintegrate on STS-107, but Columbia’s first launch would be STS-1.
As a kid when I went to the Kennedy Space Center in 1969, there had in recent history been a tragedy at the Space Center. The most poignant memorial was for the Apollo 1 astronauts Gus Grissom, Ed White and Roger Chaffee, who in 1967 were burned inside their capsule on the launch pad during a trial run. Later it was said the men suffocated to death first before burning, however, Roger Chaffee’s voice is heard on a tape saying “Flames!”. Ed White then said, “We’ve got a fire in the cockpit!”. Chaffee then yelled, “We have a bad fire!”. Then there was yelling until it went silent. The door could only be opened on the capsule inward and had latches that needed ratcheting open. Also cabin pressure held it closed and full venting had to be done before it could be opened. Well, the oxygen during the trial had permiated everything and allowed the flash fire. By the time it was opened, the three men had perished from smoke inhalation and burns..
"there's obviously been a malfunction" as the entire Rocket erupts into a fiery ball of flames, no kidding-
You're the first person to ever say this.
He would have had flight data in front of him, not the pictures everyone else was seeing
I remember well when the challenger exploded. I was sitting in civics geography class and our teacher had wheeled in a tv and tuned it to the launch. A room full of teens that are so over quiet and sitting there with there jaws down to there chest is a very rare event but thats what we all did. you could hear a pin drop next door when that blew.
I remember watching this on TV. After the explosion there was an unusually long silence... then the announcer said "Something has obviously gone seriously wrong" - i remember thinking "Wow: brilliant deduction!!", lol.
He wasn’t necessarily watching what we all saw on TV.
That crew was slaughtered, bc of incompetent people! Even to this day, it was horrifying what happened that day.
Middle management being dismissed by upper management.....infuriating. Good documentary. First time I've seen this one.
Judy Resnick used to baby sit for my mom as a kid. This hits home. I remember when this disaster happened. I was 4 years old and my Mom was crying all day and I didn't know.
No way,did your mom know her?I think Judy Resnik was sweet,she was so pretty
She is still alive and well.
Censorship may be accepted as normal where you come from but it is a bitter pill in this country. I named nobody and made no threats. UA-cam can practice censorship at their own peril. A big internet with search engines and lots of information & entertainment forums. You sound Jewish. If the shoe fits, wear it. The truth is the truth. A bunch of billionaire zionist influencing the US government with an agenda. People need to look closely at 9/11. I have argued rudely with many on these sites. I never flagged anyone crying to UA-cam. I guess men are just made different where you come from.
I was in 4th grade and eating lunch when Challenger was lost. I’ll never forget it.
one of the major case studies in my engineering ethics course.
20:48 Sounds like a pretty good reason to delay it by 3 days instead of 1. Or, ya know, 4 days or 5 or whatever. A weekday isn't a hard target to hit.
looks like instant gratification isn't a new problem for human beings!
also: They'd have had to bring the teaching lesson in via satellite. Therefore it could've been played on television, which works on saturdays as well. I for one don't care about the day of the week when a launch livestream is announced nowadays and I think the kids back then would not have either.
“Take off your engineering hat and put on your management hat”. Has the quote been reversed, the disaster may be avoided after all
Allen McDonald is a fine engineer!
agreed but i dont like his restaurant that much
Was.
Best documentary on the Challenger I have seen. Thanks Allan.
The contractor who refused to sign off on the launch is a hero and he is right when he said that was the smartest decision he'd ever made
Deeply saddened by all of this, my 💓 broke but one thing I'll say, Mr. Allan McDonald, you're the man!!!!, It's so too bad that they never at all listen to you and you're extreme knowledge and doing what was right.
I was only 4 years old when it happened so of course i dont remember it. But all these years later i finally understand it. And watching this just made me feel so saddened for our astronauts. I kept thinking please i hope it was quick and they didnt feel a thing. Until i seen the part about the cabin and they possibly survived till water impact. This happened so many years ago and here in 2019 getting a full understanding and education from this video my heart breaks. Losing our fellow friends on challenger and Columbia.. Wow. Just wow. Im at a loss for words
I was a freshman in college. I remember watching this on a TV in the back of the library. This was indeed something that could have been avoided if they had just waited.
I was in kindergarten and we watched it on TV in the classroom. I never really understood what had happened at that time. Now, I'm 40 and when I watch the videos I have grieved.
18:50 Oh man, the look on Richard Covey's face is absolutely heartbreaking.
Rest In Peace to Allan MacDonald. He passed away this year on March 9th 2021 at the age of 83. Rest well sir 🙏🏿
I remember seeing this on TV. I feel sorry for all those lost and their families and loved ones. I feel sorry, too, for Christa McAuliff's student and indeed any student who watched the launch and explosion. I imagine that the shock and sadness must have been enormous.
I've always been angry about the disaster because it was completely unnecessary. Some people at the Kennedy Space Center knew about the problem with the O-Rings but let the launch proceed. One of the engineers even warned higher-ups, but they paid no attention and seven lives were needlessly snuffed out.
Oh I've just learnt that Allan has passed away earlier this month after reading some of the comments here.
RIP ❤️
This has more detail than the Netflix documentary
I remember when it happened. I was at work and my office mate was listening to his radio. He turned pale as a ghost, took off his headphones and said, "The Space Shuttle just blew up."
This was at Bell Labs, so I was in a building full of science geeks. Most of us spent the rest of the day either crammed into various conference rooms watching the TV or wandering the halls looking dazed. Most of us were in tears.
No work got done that day.
Such a sad day in History.
best sentence by Allen McDonald: "... and wirebrushed the hell outa them..." just great. Allen my deep respect.
Was never much of a Reagan fan, but, I cannot imagine a more eloquent response to this tragedy, by a chief executive. Nailed it. 🤗💖🙏
Well he was actor right? ...an actor.
oh the dread expression on the man's face saying the 'throttle up' function is heartbreaking 💔😢
#NeverForgotten #Challenger #Columbia
blatant disregard for safety & human life. period.
they had to get the teacher up to keep funding from congress
no because they are all still alive
Plus lying about it afterwards
Psychopaths.
Like when you have a few drinks and get into your car and drive. Dont be so quick to point fingers.
38 years ago on this day, this terrible accident happened. RIP to those 2 women & 5 men that perished whilst flying.
I remember when I was in middle school, a former Nasa Astronaut came in to talk to us. Inevitably, he received questions about the Challenger disaster. He answered a general question regarding the cause by saying it wasnt an accident, it was a prediction. Then he went on to explain the malfunction of the o-ring.
I love that! Eloquent, precise, nuanced, and easily understandable by an adolescent audience. Clearly it made an impression on you because you remember those words, not an accident but a prediction. I'm sure he'd given similar talks a thousand times before, but I just love it that he made that impression on you.
Much respect for those who lost thier lives trying to reach the sky. Thier lives were not lost in vain. We are still reaching the sky. Eventually the stars with in mind all those who before us were brave enough to try. Rest in peace the crew of Challenger.
I saw an interview with Roger B & I felt so sickened by the way he was treated, he was a hero in my eyes, he did all he could to stop that launch. It was gut- wrenching to hear how he felt afterwards.
It’s sad that whistleblowers usually pay with their careers, especially where lives are lost.
Hardesr thing for me was learning that it wasn't instant. That it was likely the water impact that killed them. Had me in tears hearing that.
The company my grandfather worked for made some 9f the components, and I remember him talking about what happened, after it was determined what had failed, and how hard it hit him. On one hand, relief that it wasn't something he had made on the huge lathe he ran.
On the other, feeling mad at himself for feeling that relief, when 7 people lost their lives that day. First time I saw him cry, one of the strongest people I've ever known.
May they have eternal peace, and may God continue to help those they left here heal.
that's a guess and not a very good one, anything which could survive the explosion would survive the impact at a fraction of the velocity.
@Psycandy Not sure what you mean. Could you explain? The impact with the water was orders of magnitude more violent than the initial breakup of the shuttle stack.
@@PsycandyA remarkably ignorant comment. You don't know what you're talking about.