Precision Belt Tensioning On EASY Mode! (PF Makes Meter)
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- Опубліковано 18 тра 2024
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In this video we take a look at an awesome community made tool that lets you check the tension of your belts without the need of an app. This might not be so important on printers that arent being pushed, but for performance builds having your belts set within a correct range will help ensure you get the most out of them. We cover what the tool is, how it works, and use it to tension belts on two of my printers!
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I bought mine about 6 months ago. Spent about $30 on overnight shipping alone when I got pissed off with the phone apps lmao
They are so frustrating. A few times I’ve used them without any issue and other times it’s like they don’t register the strums. The mk4 build was kind of my last straw.
Using these apps made me dread touching my belts or doing anything that needed me to mess with the belts. Now I don't care with this tool. One of my favorite tools
The apps are worthless outside a quite room. Just try them while a couple other printers running.
We are one of the official kit vendors, I wondered why things were kicking off. Many thanks @ModBot for this video. - Ax @ Viper Worx
Nice work, I couldn't have demonstrated proper use of the meter any better myself! I'm glad to hear it is working well for you and thank you for your support! Enjoying your content as always. -PF
The man himself! Thank you very much. Its an awesome tool and it should help a lot of people. :)
As a metrologist, this makes me happy.
7:58 If it helps, the frequency for a string (or belt) is governed by “Mersenne's laws”, so frequency is inversely proportional to the square root of tension, and inversely proportional to length.
The readout on the meter is based on the deflection of the belt which comes directly from the sin component of belt tension and the spring constant. Since we can definitely assume small angles here, we can say that the output of this tool is linear with respect to belt tension. So a 1.2x increase in desired frequency will correspond to a 1.44x increase in tension as read by this tool
Very timely video. I broke down and built mine two days ago after the phone apps didn't work for me.
Assuming the belt is an ideal string (reasonable assumption) and as far as I can tell the tensiometer works as a spring with a lever, so a linear relationship between tension and the scale readings (not 100% sure on this but it seems so)
The VZ bot tension most probably is as follows:
*Printed (157 Hz avg ~ 2.05x Voron spec): 4.1 on the scale at 150mm*
*CNC: (169 Hz avg ~ 2.37x Voron spec): 4.7 on the scale at 150mm*
I used the Mersenne-Taylor equation which is the vibration frequency for a string given length, tension, and mass/unit-length (material)
It seems outside the range of the tool so you could probably calibrate it to measure half of the actual values via the piano string and divide the values I provided by 2.
Another simpler option would be to measure at 100mm instead and use the following values:
*Printed (157 Hz avg): 2.7 on the scale at 100mm*
*CNC: (169 Hz avg): 3.1 on the scale at 100mm*
_(Still outside the scale but just above 3 would do)_
Never had a Vzbot so I don’t know if this sounds right, the tension seems rather high but the math indeed does maths. Correct me if I made any mistakes.
I just finished assembling mine. Decided to do it from scratch. Not hard at all, you just need to take your time and not skip any steps. One little detail for those who choose the DIY route: The instructions call for an M3x6 or M3x7 BHCS for the needle pivot. M3x6 is too short and M3x7 is an unusual size. I went for an M3x8. It sticks out the back of the base a bit but that's a not an issue.
Now this is why I love this channel. This applies to all printers not just the newer ones. Thanks
That's why I love my old good Ender 3. You just tension 'em belts in some way. And it prints. I actually do just a little tension so it just works and that's it. No any 'bass' guitar strings or such.
Just a note: When you DIY your own version, you can use the alternate method of calibration if you do not or are unsure if you have the correct music wire on hand to use. It's literally using a jug of water, but this should technically be as accurate, if not more so, since it's a direct weight measurement.
I have one and I love it, worth every penny even for the fully assembled kit, esp if you're not printing in ABS/ASA
i have one and it is a must own! it took an hour or two on my v0 the first time to do belts and still ended up with improper tension. i bought this tool and did my trident belts in 5 minutes!!!!
MASSIVE HEADACHE trying to tension belts for days on my first printer. This is great
Frequency tension measurement is a perfect way to do it, however here is a couple of tricks:
1) select segment of the belt which is longest distance between 2 solid points, where distance is easy to measure between them and also where this distance is easy to replicate (put gantry into one of its limit positions).
2) I dunno why, but printer designers will give you the length and part of the belt, which is not easy to setup and even milimeters play a role - but you dont need to follow this, because the belt is equally tight along its whole length. Use #1 instead.
3) frequency is inverse function of belt length (of the oscilating segment). All other variables, such as belt tension, belt mass per unit of length, remain the same. If printer OEM tells you it has to be 170 Hz on a segment 150mm long and your easily constrained segment is 360mm long, aim for 170Hz / 360mm * 150mm = 70.8Hz. Use your preferred segment and recalculate accordingly.
4) prusa tends to measure and reproduce the results very well, when it comes to longer belt segments and frequency around 50-100
I got mines like 2 months ago. Is a great investment to make sure your belts are correctly tighten, mines were over tighten not by much but now I can be sure that my belts will last longer.
Cool, I also plan to upgrade my Ender 5 Plus to a Mercury One. Good to know that the tool works there too.
... and West3D is sold out 😆
lol they were sold out when I went to buy mine. I had to wait a week or two for a shipment. They seem to have been gaining popularity for some time.
Kit it is I guess 😅
thanks for sharing this, I am going to go down the DIY route and purchased a parts kit from vyper workx in the uk.
Thanks for the video Daniel. Great review, very informative. Looks like my projects list just got one item longer 😆
Thanks buddy!! Haha at least this is a relatively small one. I know that all too well though 😂. The ever growing list.
I bought the DIY kit a couple months ago. Ironically, at the build stage of my 2.4 where I need to do the AB belts. Have to print and get this thing built! 😂
nice review
Thank you :)
I think this isn't quite correct: If i'm not mistaken, you should tune only one belt, in a core xy (and try to make the same adjustement on the other one, so half a turn on each), and then you adjust the other belt to eliminate the induced racking, regardless of the tension this will provide. Please let me know if this is wrong or not
I think frequncy actually varies with the square root of tension so you would have to square the ratio of frequencies to get the ratio of tensions
Finally - could never get the tone apps to show anything close to deterministic results.
This fancy tool needs idler gears for the outside pegs, since you have to tap it to make it settle that tells me friction from the lack of rolling harware on the belt is skewing its measure. However, perhaps its all insignificant, i dont know how much it matters. Since you have to adjust so preceisely where the gantry is you might as well just use a basic small pull scale and you will have a more accurate measurement. Using a pull scale is the offical means that no one does in the automotive industry, its rare though for the vehicle manufacturer to release specifications on belt deflection anyway.
Thats a really interesting idea. I could see having idlers on the two outer teeth helping it to "slip" into place. It seems to lock in pretty well with the tap and after using it once or twice you get the hang of it but I like this idea. I think I was being a little anal with the positioning. The instructions make it seem like as long as you have 150mm of belt your good. I am probably carrying over a bit of the need for precision from the strumming method.
Rollers would probably help, but i guess then you would need to have the plunger part on an airbearing too, as that thing is sticking to the walls inside the outer shell and can't move freely in and out... In all seriousness tho, this is not a super high precision tool to begin with, so no need to overengineer to the whazoo. It's good enough to give you a decent idea of how tight or loose your belt is, and that is fine. If you need to have super precision, build a tensioner wheel with a load cell, so you can actually measure the force in static as well as dynamic load to really see what happens to the belt when a motor starts to jerk on it.
@@ModBotArmy
the belt must be allowed to slip at the two anchor points as there is actually a deflection in the belt caused by the middle probe-- you do not want the belt to stretch between these two points but rather allow more belt to come in to account for that deflection. if there is high friction at the two anchor points, then the tension will be higher inside the anchor points than outside (the true belt tension) because of this deflection. tapping the tool allows this slip to happen by overcoming static friction at the anchor points, ensuring that you are measuring tension for the whole 150mm rather than just the length between the anchors.
i'll do the above comment better by saying that the probe itself should also be a free pulley (not possible for this application, but a 1mm steel dowel would be perfectly ok). that way the tool can be inserted, spring released, and the entire thing be free to run up and down the measured area to allow the entire belt inside the tool's area to equalise in tension to the rest of the 150mm. but this is starting to get unnecessary in terms of cost when at the end of the day an elcheapo tool like this is already overpriced as it is (see Ali for a $5 version using an electronic depth gauge which is superior).
regarding 150mm, the voron specs do stipulate the recommended 2.2lbs +-10% for AB and 2.65lbs +-5.7% for Z, beyond which the % deviation will indicate a tension too high or too low. because the tension in that span is proportional to the length according to the 3 point flexural test methodology, that means you should keep your span measurement error within 5.7% or 10% of 150mm. that means you have 8 to 15mm allowance before your tardiness becomes an issue. in any case, 10% or 5.7% are arbitrary anyway. in other words, it's not really important if you get 150mm down to the millimeter but you should try to minimize the error because that's all you can do before you leave the rest to the tool. in principle though, you want the belt to be as long as possible to increase your error tolerances. note that the tool itself will introduces an error on its own because it applies a deflection to the belt which increases the tension in the same belt it is trying to measure. in practice, 150mm was probably chosen because of several good reasons and i will list a few:
1) you can measure this with a 6 inch ruler
2) this is roughly where the toolhead would be in the center of a voron 350.
3) the tension of 150mm will give a strumming frequency that is not too low (doesn't strum) or too high (attenuates too quickly to be measured).
4) anyone who subsequently makes a tuning guide will pick 150 for the sole reason that voron did it first.
Early in development I did have a version that used a stack of small 6m OD bearings for the outer pegs . While there was a very slight improvement for speed in acquiring the measurement the end results were the same. For the release candidate I wanted to keep the BOM and assembly as simple as possible to make self-sourcing and assembly easier and more accessible.
@diyshift Since nothing is turning very fast.I don't think the device would need full-fledged.Bearings just using 3 d printed rolling bushings would be good enough. I'm sure using pet g would be quite slippery enough for such pushing's.And it could even be a little snap fit or something over a ridge to the bottom of the pegs so no hardware to secure them. small details can improve operational dependability, even though you didn't have problems it's possible a less savvy user or a tired user of the product might not think or remember to settle the device on the belt, so if you can eliminate the need for such conditional operation the user experience will become more favorable.
Are you sure you are using EPDM belts? Afaik they are usually black on both sides. With 1.9 you are still in the range of both. You might want to adjust the values so that nobody is confused.
Sold out.
The distance between pulleys should be be completely irrelevent for this. The tension meter uses deflection between the two pegs to measure tension so as long as you can fit it on it will work. Vibration or sound testing uses deflection between the idlers to measure tension so of course it needs to be a fixed distance as vibration frequency changes with length. The distance between the pegs on the tension meter does not change.
The values for different printers will only really vary based on belt thickness. They all use roughly the same motors, belts and hardware. The different recommended values just show its not a critical fixed number but instead having it uniform for each of your belts is what is important.
I agree. The best way would probably be to position the X-Y gantry in different positions and test the tension to see how much variability you get. If the tool offers a good degree of repeatability, and there is no mechanical issue with the printer, the tension should not change much with the different gantry positions.
you can get digital belt tenioning meters for 3d printers for much cheaper, they're using digital tire gauges with addon
Never seen or heard of a digital one. Got a name?
RatOS for Rat Rigs has a belt tension macro that so far works rather well, but it's a rather tedious process because you have to have it run, tighten/loosen, repeat until they're matched up. Might look into one of these to at least speed things up.
Hello Daniel will this be applicable on a bambulab p1s ?
In theory yes, however, they have a built in semi automatic tensioning system so unless there is a specific reason that isnt working I would opt to just stick with that on the P1S.
since you have your printer tuned with the tester, can you please test on longer belt segments to see if that matters? My guess is that it won't as it's testing the distance the belt moves between the two pins on the tester, but it would be good to have confirmation that you don't need to fuss about the 150mm belt segment
(for the sound based testing, it makes sense that the length matters, for this it shouldn't)
Will this work on the Magneto-X?
And now they are sold out! 🤣Good job, ModBot! 🤣 Now I want one, but can't have it! 🤣
UPDATE: I broke down and sourced all of the parts. Gotta love Amazon! 🤣
I love the way bambulab deals with this! but this is useful :)
How do they deal with it?
@@Valintone they just have a simple spring putting a predefined amount of pressure that's equal to both idlers, you lose the idler, move the gantry around so it moves around, then lock the pulley again.
could i ask you to look into the ender 3 ng project?
That b roll is amazing. Mod bot
Any idea on using this for a Rat Rig Vcore 3?
Can you use these on the Creality Ender series and Elegoo Neptune 3 and 4 series?
What printer was that at 2:40?
Sold out at reseller, project owner paused his etsy store, so far only one way is try and self source
Just relisted, the maker does these himself and pumps out a lot but the demand certainly outpaces supply :)
So this won't work on a Bambu Labs p1s?
I wish you had first tuned the belts using the strum test and then used the tool to show how close the app test got and if its at least good enough.
I mean calibrating on known Violin string only works if outcome is calculated to exact belt you own. So given that every one uses Gates 6mm belts this device may measure properly. Or Designer of that device checked other belts and is giving calculation tables for then too. Otherwise this work just for one belt type
The recommended values are with different belts, yes they are gates- but there are values for rf, epdm, gt3 (I believe)
The belt material affects the frequency... They have had tool like this since the V-belt days
Wouldn't a Loos Gauge do the same thing?
I use a highly precise measuring device called a fingerometer👀 It's accurate to +/-0.5NM and hasn't let me down yet🤷♂
As someone who has needed to use a tension meter professionally... The sound meter method for checking 3d printer belts has always made me cringe a bit.
When moving an assembly that sits in the middle of a tensioned belt, you want to check the tension on each side. Depending on the direction you moved the assembly, the tension may be a bit higher on one side than the other. You can average the measurement for better accuracy. This may not be as much of an issue with the relatively lighter weight and smaller size and belt paths in a printer though.
Love it when they do reviews on something I want, but it's always out of stock with no preorder, which tells me that it isn't coming back I guess? 😭
I just put some back in stock, we do restocks every week or two. We don’t pre-order because we like to deliver a high standard of service and when things slip so does the experience.
Just out of curiosity went to the site and they gone... Guess i caught the video a bit late lol ..
The phones apps suck and prusas in particular is hot garbarge. It picks up the strumming exacting 10% or less of the time
Stratasys did this 20 years ago
Even worse, I've seen belt tensioned so tight it bent the machine frame! Be careful with those belts.
Its completely sold out. Nice job....
Przerost formy nad treścią.
Do tego koniecznie trzeba kupić miernik stężenia freonu i ozonu w komorze drukarki.
Oczywiście trzeba zmierzyć ciśnienie atmosferyczne pod dyszą drukarki.
Why ABS/ASA though?
Thats a great question. I didn't see an obvious answer or reason for this.
Durability over time. PLA will creep more under load, that tenioning spring is a constant load.
But also it was designed and tested in ABS/ASA so using another material with different shrinkage properties could lead to tollerance issues.
@@ModBotArmy i have printed and assembled this few weeks before (great tool), i can try to print in PLA and compare it , but my guess would be model tolerances(gear meshing) compensated for shrinking of ABS a tiny bit of ABS durability (PLA change over time with stress forces)
PLA creeps under load, so this tool may not remain calibrated if printed out of that material. ABS is a lot better for long-term dimensional stability.
Every plastic creeps under load. PLA with the higher stiffness would probably be a better option imho. However, the tool should come with a mode to relax the spring for storage. Every torque wrech (with a few special exceptions) has to be untensioned before putting it back in to storage too, as the spring that sets the torque "creeps" over time too if it's constantly loaded, so your wrench would move out of specification faster if you always keep the spring tensioned.
The fact that this belt tension tool comes with a calibrator is actually nice, as you know where the tool is just before you use it. With a torque wrench, you usually don't have a calibration tool that can test the torque before using it, unless you work in a bigger workshop that has torque references.
I made 6 of these for a whopping $18 USD.
Never thought to use a guitar tuning app to tension the belts on a printer... just sounds like a bunch of nonsense..glad this tool exists now though, will probably be picking one up in the future
The moment you said the way to measure belt tension was with the _phone microphone based on pitch.._ yeah no thanks hahah, I recently got recommended a belt tensioner on ali for ~10$ and they mostly seem based on generic digital calipers. I might buy one and try it out honestly, as I've also always wondered over the years "how tight should my belts be?"
Sadly, it doesn’t work for 9mm belts.
According to docs it does
@@ModBotArmy not gt3
meh, i give it the doupt of being more exakt. But most will be enough with the "simple version" of it on printables...
Do you have a link to the simple version you're referring to?
@SmrimpyMaster None of the belt tension testers on Printables measure a unit and value, so unless you’ve compared with a calibrated tool you have no idea if your particular print is within spec. As far as giving advice to the masses, this tool will be accurate for 999/1000 people that use it, whilst the same cannot be said about others.
Edit: corrected 999/10,000 to 1,000
@@TheOfficialOriginalChad not the statistic you were looking for, i think
@@ejenda9909 haha yes thanks.
Cool tool but it definitely isn’t a new concept. Car mechanics have used these for many many years and call them a belt deflector tool
A digital one costs 3 dollars on ali, this is homemade thing isnt cutting ir.
Most of the ali ones are just tire gauges/calipers. I have both that style and this printed one from west3d.
On the ali one, the plunger is a sharp point instead of something rounder and more fit for the profile of the belt, which makes actually using it to get a reading difficult.
There is no way to reliably "zero" it.
There is no guide for calibrating it s that you can match deflection to a specific hz of tension.
It seems like it should be better but in practice, the ali one is useless.
The printed one is calibrated, can be re-calibrated easily, fits on the belts properly, and is easy to use.
If the ali one wa more developed to overcome these issues, it might be the other pick. But as is it is hard to recommend.
The feedback I have seen on the Ali ones are horrible. Both from the quality of the tool/it arriving damaged, to it not working well due to the shape of the arms/prong on the tool. If you can find one that works well for you then by all means, but if its not reliable or repeatable then its worthless.
@@caramelzappa the ali ones have a bit too little area for the belt to grab onto as well, iirc by the reviews
I used them and having no problems, i think allot of people have a opinion about them without trying them. Digital always beats analog in measuring, only dummies think otherwise.
@@TheOneAndOnlySatan
How do you reliabley "zero" yours for repeatability?
How do you convert your measurement in MM to HZ?
How do you handle the sharp point wanting to slip off the belt?
I would love to make some use out of mine.
0 print tests.
?? It’s just a tensiometer? That’s just a regular tool lol, like a torque wrench
A quality one can be north of a thousand dollars. The feedback I have seen on the cheaper ones is awful. From just arriving completely damaged to not being suited to work with belts due to the point on the probe this one has been designed specifically to overcome these issues.
Your comments about the similar and cheaper existing alternatives without trying them makes you sound a little bit biased towards this project, probably it's not your intention but as I really like your content I kinda felt like giving my feedback, who knows if there would be a follow up video showing people that the alternatives are that inferior or not 😅
Are you referring to the apps that I mention in the video? Or are you talking about the digital Ali meters a few have mentioned?
First comment
I was expecting to see print comparisons BEFORE and AFTER using the tool. Without them this video is just an ad supported by just your words. That's not enough. 👎
An ad, for what exactly? The completely open source tool?
@@UloPe yes. The tool which is being sold. Do you have any idea on why there is completely zero comparison of the print results "before" and "after"?
@@paragongamecom2497 It's only being sold as an option for people that don't feel up to the task of assembling one themselves...
I have no idea why there is no comparison but I would imagine because it's very difficult to see minute belt tension changes in print results in an otherwise well tuned printer.
@@UloPe my point exactly. Why to spend time on making a video and attract attention to a tool (sounds like an advertisement) and not show ANY influence of the tool to the print results.
To me it is misbehavior. An attempt to make some positive impression not backed up by... Anything.
Case closed.
@@paragongamecom2497 To me the point of this video is to show an alternative to using apps for getting proper belt tension. It’s well documented that improperly tensioned belts can lead to both poor prints and increased wear.
This tool is crap. 2 Essential object missing in this tool.