Seems Poorhammer have also done a 'ranking terminators' video on the same day! ua-cam.com/video/HyGsI8ZsGGk/v-deo.html&ab_channel=Poorhammer Theirs is a bit more of a 'every faction's heavy elite equivalents' video, so there's surprisingly little unit overlap. It's well worth a watch (and as usual is far higher production value than the likes of me and my slides :D )
@@auspextactics LOL Sure is. The audio listeners get it the day before the video launches so a bunch of them were spoiled in advance. The video is up now though.
I presume we can expect some DRAMA with declarations from both Auspex and Poorhammer that they’re STEALING EACH OTHERS CONTENT. Jk. Here for the synced up termi content!
@@richarddixon1450 because they're not Assault Terminators. Though I did initially buy them as Relic Terminators, then they got sent to Legends, but I built them all with Lightning Claws so I could use them as both until the upscale hit.
@zap54312 im holding out for upscaled versions. Two add a second 10 man unit of terminators to my 40k Iron warriors. I've already 10 of the current kit. Think 10 dudes in super old armour would look great aswell
He may have, but any right proppa ork Meganob isn't gonna be caught dead using a combi-weapon. The kustom Shoota is far superior in the event he has to shoot
If World Eaters Terminators could just get a character to attach to (Like one of the TWO TERMINATOR LORD MODELS GW ALREADY MADE) they would shoot up. They have the damage, they just don't have anything more than that.
I have just noticed the wolf guard storm bolter looks like it has a little piggy snout and am now wearing a big smile imagining the oinks and squeals as it fires blowing holes I random xenos lol
I know it's not the point of the video, and perhaps it's just a unique phenomenon in my community, but I have found that a 10-man unit of Terminators in the Vanguard Spearhead detachment with a character using The Blade Driven Deep for infiltration is pretty great. Deploy them in the mid-board, ideally on an objective with a bit of terrain to prevent shooting, and the unit essentially starts the game in the position they want to be in. Use Armor of Contempt against AP-3 shooting to marginally improve the saves if you happen to go second.
Grey knight paladins also hit on 2+ btw. and can take way more special weapons. (3 psycannoms hitting on 2+ for 5 models) I think that lifts them to 9/10
I will say, Gladius Wolf Guard Terminators do not get nearly the recognition that they deserve. It is not every day you get to make your opponent take 50+ saves at AP -1 ignoring cover out of a single unit.
I think you seriously underestimate Chaos Terminators. You get sustained hits 5+ with slaanesh on 6 power fists/2 chain fists... Auto re-rolling failed hits as well. You're more often than not hitting more times than the attacks you even have, to the point where it's more like you have 10 power fists and everything else is extra.
I just don’t know what role they want for DWK. If they wanted them to deal less damage and be more in line with tanks. Then actually make them tankier. Fuck it, give them a 3+ invulnerability save, or keep the 4+ then add a 4+ FNP. Otherwise, give us our damage back. They’re supposed to be the most elite melee fighters for space marines. I feel like some higher up at GW played against DA index and had no out to the 10 man blob of DWKs and held a vendetta ever since.
If i had a penny for the amount of times my friend brags about the Votann Hearthguard having the ability to disregard any modifiers AND -1 to wound AND strength 6, i would have enough to buy a Warlord Titan. As a Dark Angels Player, i was ecstatic to see T5 termies, but then they just arent great this far into the edition. Mortal Wounds do not come around enough since the Dev Wounds issue "fix". And then my precious DW Command Squad is just removed with my Apothecary ;-; Honestly, Termies should feel more specialized, im fine with a 5-man squad, but make them alot stronger, heck, give a FNP to them so they feel like the tanky special elite unit they are supposed to be. Ive run Termie blobs and while fun, their slow movement and mediocre ranged weapons mean that other factions just walk around them or outgun them. Also. Deepstrike is worthless unless you had the DW Command Squad with a Captain in Termie armor to ensure charges.
I also love to build my Allarus without a Helmet on but this is 100% stupid ^^ I mean a Custodes can take nearly any hit and his body will kinda fix the wound but a boltershell to the nose is kinda beyond repair xD
Yeah DWKs are not very great to use. Hard to make their points back. The game has too many dev wounds to make them worth it on top of their melee got gutted to subpar levels. DWTs are definitely not 6/10. Terminators in general are a good way to have a weak list in 10th. Way too expensive for the output they have to pay for their points consistently. I don't even have them fire the storm bolters anymore since it's just wasting time. I've won so much more dropping Terminators from my SM lists.
@@blackvalordragoon They are not mortal wounds. The model is simply destroyed. Not mortals = no fnp vs mortals. (Hazardous only deals mortals to vehicles/monsters/characters - instead of destroying them - but the termies with hvy weapons are neither)
@oldmangames9292 but if I add a terminator librarian? He is a character I could add to the unit with hazardous weapons. And you get to select the model that takes the hazardous effect
@@blackvalordragoon I guess you could.. I think.. but would you really want to risk losing a character and using up a 1-per-game ability just to use an inferior weapon? Instead you could just use a CML, do more damage and don't worry about hazardous.
Yup. Haven't managed to summon the desire to play 40K since the codex dropped due to the sheer disgust at the pathetic parody for a codex supplement we got. An I only played a single game since the january leaks.
honestly what pisses me off more is that space wolves still get a terminator lieutenant and we lost ours. Like its the deathwing, THE terminator company in the dark angels and the space wolves do it better??? our codex really was written by space wolves
Man. Dark Angels really got done dirty by their Codex release. Imagine getting your Codex and coming out the other side WEAKER than you were before you had it.
Pretty common for the those first 4-5 codices into a new edition... Look at Chaos Marines & Death Guard as recent examples; CSM's: 1st or 2nd codex of 6th edition. A couple months of being average, then basically 2 whole editions of being dumpster fire tier. 1st or 2nd codex again in 8th edition, were barely playable. Death Guard: 3rd or 4th codex of 8th edition, got power crept out of the game within a few months. 4th or 5th codex of 9th edition, basically spent the entire edition bottom mid/top low tier. Being an early codex is so often such a gakshow. Best time to get your codex is across the middle of an edition as typically the devs have a better handle on how the game really plays & all the various special rules interact. End of edition, those final 6-10 months or so can still lean towards having a top end codex, but it can also equally mean you only get maybe 6 months or so to enjoy your codex before it's nuked out of existence, OR, you get a dysfunctional "designed with the new edition in mind" deal which is really just a hybridized bastard codex which only sorta functions in both the current + new upcoming edition.
I just hope the design team is willing to amend the datasheets. They've come pretty close to doing that already. The army is locked behind a pay wall for app subscribers. If people buy the book, they've got their money, so what do they care? They should've done better with the DA and they really could fix it if they wanted to.
Especially when they ridiculously upped the price of the MoE and nerfed the crap out of bezerker glaive. Idiotic GW not realising it was the only points effective infantry character and wargear that was available to us
I feel like terminators could be brought up quite a bit by giving them bolter discipline back on their storm bolters, making them 4 shots at all ranges. This as well as having them not take a penalty to hit for thunder hammers would make them feel more like elites
Agree with the grey knight paladins as a side grade, just surprised that their shooting wasn't mentioned. 3 of the 5 can have special guns and they hit on 2. Terminator group has 1 out of the 5 with a special gun, and 1 missing a gun, with shooting on 3. The loss of the narthecium when going to paladins is rough.
One thing I'd like to clarify as a Chaos player: the Undivided strategem now only gives a wound reroll and can only be used on units with that mark. The reason they still get full re-rolls is their passive ability.
They're fun, but way too expensive, in squads of less than 10, they are not lethal or survivable enough, and in squads of 10, they are too expensive for their toughness
The insane thing is that Deathshroud Terminators came down 5 points in the most recent balance dataslate, while Blightlord Terminators received no buffs of any sort. As usual, it's a complete mystery what GW was thinking.
I love my Assault Termies in my Templars army! Big blob of them + Captain w/ T-Bones and an Ancient. Expensive, but 52 wounds at T5, 2+/4++, 5+ FNP makes them crazy hard to shift. Maybe not super competitive, but dang are they fun!
@@thelonesomedrummer351the deathwing knights aren’t too hard to convert, as long as you have some bits to replace the aquila on the chest. The mauls can stand in for thunderhammers, and you could probably use the old lightning claws
@@thelonesomedrummer351 I'm really hoping we get new Assault Termies soon! The new Captain looks hilariously huge next to the old Assault Termies. I'd love to see Sword Brethren Termies!
Riiiight… let’s take the Deathwing rules away from the Deathwing and give them to everyone else instead. Guess that does make the Deathwing different and special compared to all the rest of the terminators out there. At least the whole company only deploys in terminator armor. Oh, wait…
I've been using Terminators in Sons of Sanguinius lead by a Chaplain and it can get quite silly. Against your Oath target you're almost always hitting and wounding on 2s in melee.
I really think the worst part about the dwk is the 5 man squad. At oc 1 it will not hold an objective against any horde, the unit footprint is very small so they are poor wall for screening against charges, and their attack potential is pretty low so they don't act like a great distraction carnifex. At 235 points they are mainly there to bog one thing down FOREVER, because they are so hard to kill.
Honestly maces needed to stay damage 3, but what the power weapons *really* needed were more attacks. And I don't just mean this for DA as well. It feels like there are way more optimized anti MEQ options than anti horde out there.
CSM Terminators have access to full reroles and exploding 6s on the combi weapons, with a Lord they get to use the AoC strat for free and can benefit from normal cover aswell, I'd argue some of the best in the game.
5/10 for Blightlords lol, how the mighty have fallen. I admit I was getting sick of hearing about Blightlords in previous editions but it still seems like GW can't just bring a unit back ro the middle. Although I suppose 5/10 should be the "middle"??
In Righteous Crusaders with Tännhausers Bones you can give a brick of 10 Terminators a 5+++ FnP. Which is very unique and powerful to Black Templars. 4 Wound Models with 2+, 4++ and 5+++ break Math quite hard!
lol, the BEST terminators in 40k were in 2E, when you had a 3+ save....but had 2d6 to do it LOL. Termies could shrug off lascannons. 10E is such trash it is literally making me yearn to play 2E....and 2E was hot garbage compared to 3/4/5E
Lightning Claws were always a little disappointing for me. Ditch twin-linked, and give it Sustained Hits 2 and +1 base attack to REALLY drive home the fact they murder MEQs and down. Right now it feels too similar in usage to the other options. Units should have their own niche. Make the fists/hammer Str 9 to better hurt Medium vehicles/monsters. Give the hammer Dmg 3 and remove Devastating Wounds. It will still lose to the Chain Fist vs heavy tanks, and the power fist vs MEQs and Lighter. But it will do slightly better vs medium tanks, Monsters, and especially Gravis. You can toss the Devastating Wounds the Chainfist's way if you want to keep it a superior vehicle basher, though you may want to drop the anti-tank to 4 in that case. What you'd end up with is Lightning Claw Assault Terminators out meleeing fist's into most things infantry shaped, Chainfists being king vs vehicles, and hammers being a Gravis and vehicle/monster slayer. Slap on a Primaris level bolter in place of the current storm bolter (so, AP -1, Assault, Heavy to the current stat block. I'd also say +6 inches of range, which Bolt Rifles should have kept), and maybe dare to up the heavy weapons to 2/5 in regular terminators, and you have a shooty hybrid terminator, and a dedicated melee terminator with two distinct modes. Throw in a few other changes, like a slight buff to the Assault Cannon and Heavy Flamer to better compare to the Cyclone, and the units would be fantastic.
As much as I want to agree on the level you've given the Scarab Occult, in their current point-cost level they're just not worth it. Slow, not so tanky - even with the -1 to wound with higher strength weapons, and rather pillowfisted ranged weapons - all hitting on 3's. In an edition where cover is almost always applied, they're never worth dumping the 2 CP/1 cp + 6 cabal on to 'boost', which is probably why they're so high costed. Forget that the squad leader CANNOT fire his psychic attack and his combi-bolter at the same time unlike almost every sorcerer we have; whilst the solo term sorc can do both. 330 points with the combo char+squad. They're just bottom tier. Almost worse than Deathwing.
Giving Deathwimg Knights 6/10 is absurd to the 9/10 to the allerus. Especially because of price. A 5 man allerus is 325 points and they do not get -1 to damage, which makes the Deathwimg arguably just as good al things considered. They have the same saves and the same wounds only toughness splits them. Also they are not as commonly taken as wardens and guard, and definitely not in numbers. But with 4 custodes units to chose from we don't really have all that much of a choice. Anyway, no matter how you look at it, 230p is not expensive for Deathwimg Knights. Allerus are generally overrated for the actual cost you have to pay for them but lack of choice almost force them into the team.
Dang no love for the Abberants? JK i know they have no armor. Personally I’ll give them 7/10. Since they are the only unit in the GSC index with staying power and hit like a truck, but still squishy.
I’m biased. I have played grey knights since like 2006 so those have been the best in my mind for 18 years now. I know they aren’t actually the best, I have gotten overconfident plenty of times and had my terminators get wiped on the charge against other terminators. Something about fielding 20-40 silver terminators will always bring a smile to my face though and they do pretty well. Custodes terminators though… I will avoid those like the plague. They are like an ex girlfriend, stay away. I don’t care how much I think I can handle it, I can’t. They will chew me up and spit me out crying. I’ll just keep my distance and take shots.
Way off the mark on the differences between a brotherhood terminator squad and paladins. 1. Paladins don’t get access to the apothecary and thus are less durable overall not being able to restore models 2.they’re OC1 opposed to OC 2 in BTs, making them objectively worse with the banner than standard terminators 3. They don’t get access to lethal hits on the charge, making them less efficient in melee than standard terminators 4. They cost most for what is a worse ability and profile So with all that in mind, how can you rank them 8/10 like brotherhood terminators? They’re a less efficient, more expensive unit.
im rather sad i didn't see any abberants, as they are the gsc's terminators, and i think they could rank rather high (4+ FNP with 3 wounds and -1 to wound if S>T is pretty powerful, and they are pretty hard to bring down, plush 3 damage per weapon at ap -2 and T6)
I love the fact you and poor hammer cover the same topic on the same day. That said, I feel like terminators don't fit my playstyle. Too slow, and I have better luck with my death company (they survive better by getting into combat so they can't be shot, and eliminate the enemy so there's nothing meaningful to strike back). Love the models, hate how slow they are. Even deep striking they don't have a great chance of landing a charge, and as a blood angels player not missing charges is very important. Sure, I could rapid ingress them, but say I ri 12" out to keep them safe. I move, and it's a 7 inch charge. If the unit i intend to hit with the terminators charges a unit further away, I'm back to most likely not going to land the charge again. They are just too many pts to be worth it. Could maybe use them as a durable home objective holder, but too expensive for that. As slow and as many points as they are they should at least have much higher DMG output at range (their melee is fine). A squad of 5 terminators doesn't have the DMG output of 3 aggressors. They are terminators, they should terminate things both at range and up close.
This is horrifying, Deathwing knights are kinda shit… they should be lore wise scarier than any other marine varient terminator in combat… any of them, Kaldor Draigo remarks of the Deathwing they would be terrible opponents to have to face… and they aren’t even the peak of the dark angels terminators… how badly GW have cocked up their rules is frankly outrageous… hell i would suggest Blood angels terminators are better… god damn wolf guard are just better by virtue of being able to configure like old Deathwing could and just forget about with the deathshroud and the scarab occult guys they are much stronger…. Hell heir fucking weapons are god damn embarrassing…those maces are soft and those swords are lame, super fucking lame… the master of the deathwing is an embarrassing character…
I absolutely don’t understand the point of underestimating a unit when there is a stronger one in the army. How is this supposed to give a clear assessment for a person whose army, for example, does not have that very alternatively best unit? To me this looks like a deliberate damage to the rating. After all, no one will ever put terminators on the Blightlord table, for example. "Only 5 out of 10! Disgusting! Terrible! Better without terminators at all... So what other units are there?" At the same time, this is a very good unit for tanking damage and engaging the enemy in melee for their points.
Ruleswise, GK termies need to seriously be head and shoulders above everyone elses termies... an elite army that is conceptually built around termies... doesnt really field anything special in that regard... pillow-fisted is the term. Their units sit in between space marines and Custodes in price, but are outperformed by both for the cost, and do not have nearly enough ways to boost their output... I just want our termies to be terrifying... rather than annoying... is that to much to ask?
@@oldmangames9292 you are guessing that GW won't release a Terminator LT model in the future? I think it's just a matter of time. And the more we ask. The sooner it becomes. Gravis LT aswell.
@@richarddixon1450 Can only really guess based on the direction they seem to be heading in - which looks to be removing them from those codices that do(did) have them. Perhaps they will add them back at some point in the future, but I can't see it being in 10th ed - given that we already have marines codex out, and DA codex - neither which has them. (They were originally on the DA index). I'd guess SW will lose theirs when their codex comes out too - in line with DA.
Seems Poorhammer have also done a 'ranking terminators' video on the same day! ua-cam.com/video/HyGsI8ZsGGk/v-deo.html&ab_channel=Poorhammer
Theirs is a bit more of a 'every faction's heavy elite equivalents' video, so there's surprisingly little unit overlap. It's well worth a watch (and as usual is far higher production value than the likes of me and my slides :D )
Love Poorhammer, but your videos are straight to the point. Sometimes too much yapping get to my nerves
Do you want us to go beat em up for ya?? jkjk XD
@@DefaultProphet who? About what? I'm out of the loop herr
@@pandab13r Major Kill Weshammer drama reference
@@ossi1091then don’t watch them sissy
WE ARE FINALLY COMPLETELY IN SYNC! Together we will pilot a Jaeger and defend the world.
I'm going to guess by that and the other comments the next oneis a terminator flavoured podcast? Will look forward to having a watch :)
@@auspextactics LOL Sure is. The audio listeners get it the day before the video launches so a bunch of them were spoiled in advance. The video is up now though.
Forget yesterday's solar eclipse, we've got the Auspex-Poorhammer eclipse today
On my way to watch yours next!
I presume we can expect some DRAMA with declarations from both Auspex and Poorhammer that they’re STEALING EACH OTHERS CONTENT.
Jk. Here for the synced up termi content!
I'm using Cataphractii Terminators all armed with lightning claws as proxies for Assault Terminators.
How are they proxies? Lol
@@richarddixon1450 because they're not Assault Terminators.
Though I did initially buy them as Relic Terminators, then they got sent to Legends, but I built them all with Lightning Claws so I could use them as both until the upscale hit.
I use mine as chaos terminators
@zap54312 im holding out for upscaled versions. Two add a second 10 man unit of terminators to my 40k Iron warriors. I've already 10 of the current kit. Think 10 dudes in super old armour would look great aswell
Terminator Tuesday is a thing now.
You've posted this at 4am where I live. Also glad you counted Meganobz as terminators, as you should have
He may have, but any right proppa ork Meganob isn't gonna be caught dead using a combi-weapon. The kustom Shoota is far superior in the event he has to shoot
@@MrShukaku1991 I fibd myself strongly prefering the kombi weapon for the targets I find myself actually wanting to shoot
Hey lets go, first i listen to the poorhammer podcast on termies now this?? I must have rooled a six somewhere...
I was about to comment on the comedic timing of seeing this right after listening to the newest episode lmao
Hearing the phrase "deep strike" so many times got me thinking...maybe a tier list of deep strike units/models?
let him sleep first😭
Daemons popping in from the warp be like:
If World Eaters Terminators could just get a character to attach to (Like one of the TWO TERMINATOR LORD MODELS GW ALREADY MADE) they would shoot up. They have the damage, they just don't have anything more than that.
I don't care if the Deathwing Knights suck, they're still the coolest terminators by far.
I love them so much and I wish I was skilled enough to kitbash them into Black Templars Terminators.
I personally like the Deathshroud more, but I can see where you're coming from
I swear they are not that bad..
Unpopular opinion but Terminators need more strength in melee. 5 strength doesnt cut it for Assault squads and for the two who use power weapons.
I have just noticed the wolf guard storm bolter looks like it has a little piggy snout and am now wearing a big smile imagining the oinks and squeals as it fires blowing holes I random xenos lol
Bonus points for including the Meganobz!
I know it's not the point of the video, and perhaps it's just a unique phenomenon in my community, but I have found that a 10-man unit of Terminators in the Vanguard Spearhead detachment with a character using The Blade Driven Deep for infiltration is pretty great. Deploy them in the mid-board, ideally on an objective with a bit of terrain to prevent shooting, and the unit essentially starts the game in the position they want to be in. Use Armor of Contempt against AP-3 shooting to marginally improve the saves if you happen to go second.
I love my MegaNobz. Throw 5 + a Big Mek in a Battlewagon/Killtank (Preferably Kill tank) and you're having a good day Krumpin' dem 'umies!
Grey knight paladins also hit on 2+ btw. and can take way more special weapons. (3 psycannoms hitting on 2+ for 5 models)
I think that lifts them to 9/10
I love terminator so much.😢
Always use it in my list.😊
I will say, Gladius Wolf Guard Terminators do not get nearly the recognition that they deserve. It is not every day you get to make your opponent take 50+ saves at AP -1 ignoring cover out of a single unit.
CSM Termies are the best. Full RR and lethal on 5s. Oof. I add a sorc to tzeentch and just shoot apart knights. Or khorne just rips them to pieces.
I came here to see if Meganobz made the list and was not disappointed!
If you go for Terminator-equivalent, you could have also included smaller wraiths
I think you seriously underestimate Chaos Terminators. You get sustained hits 5+ with slaanesh on 6 power fists/2 chain fists... Auto re-rolling failed hits as well. You're more often than not hitting more times than the attacks you even have, to the point where it's more like you have 10 power fists and everything else is extra.
Unintentional Poorhammer synergy, gotta love it
Interesting you didn't consider wraith blades/guard as TEQ despite include much of the other xenos.
My poor blightlords, I wish they didn't get done so dirty
Wraithguard could be seen as terminators!
Wraithguard
I just don’t know what role they want for DWK. If they wanted them to deal less damage and be more in line with tanks. Then actually make them tankier. Fuck it, give them a 3+ invulnerability save, or keep the 4+ then add a 4+ FNP. Otherwise, give us our damage back. They’re supposed to be the most elite melee fighters for space marines.
I feel like some higher up at GW played against DA index and had no out to the 10 man blob of DWKs and held a vendetta ever since.
If i had a penny for the amount of times my friend brags about the Votann Hearthguard having the ability to disregard any modifiers AND -1 to wound AND strength 6, i would have enough to buy a Warlord Titan.
As a Dark Angels Player, i was ecstatic to see T5 termies, but then they just arent great this far into the edition. Mortal Wounds do not come around enough since the Dev Wounds issue "fix". And then my precious DW Command Squad is just removed with my Apothecary ;-;
Honestly, Termies should feel more specialized, im fine with a 5-man squad, but make them alot stronger, heck, give a FNP to them so they feel like the tanky special elite unit they are supposed to be. Ive run Termie blobs and while fun, their slow movement and mediocre ranged weapons mean that other factions just walk around them or outgun them.
Also. Deepstrike is worthless unless you had the DW Command Squad with a Captain in Termie armor to ensure charges.
Auspex ranks with the brain. Poorhammer ranks with the heart.
Allarus are legit.
I also love to build my Allarus without a Helmet on but this is 100% stupid ^^
I mean a Custodes can take nearly any hit and his body will kinda fix the wound but a boltershell to the nose is kinda beyond repair xD
If space wolf terminators are a 6 then chaos is definitely a 6 or a 5
I almost forgot world eaters had terminators
Now this is a video
Wraithguard/blades?
Terminators are way too expensive for me to bother using them tbh, I’d rather have Heavy Intercessors.
Hvy Ints are compelling, but they do sacrifice melee and inv save. So, their roles are quite different. It'll be nice to have both. :D
Thanks.
Yeah DWKs are not very great to use. Hard to make their points back. The game has too many dev wounds to make them worth it on top of their melee got gutted to subpar levels. DWTs are definitely not 6/10. Terminators in general are a good way to have a weak list in 10th. Way too expensive for the output they have to pay for their points consistently. I don't even have them fire the storm bolters anymore since it's just wasting time. I've won so much more dropping Terminators from my SM lists.
MegaNobz*
Now rank them on coolness please.
Doesn't the watcher in the dark prevent wounds from overcharging the plasma cannon on deathwing terminators?
No
@cheeks5388 why not?
@@blackvalordragoon They are not mortal wounds. The model is simply destroyed. Not mortals = no fnp vs mortals. (Hazardous only deals mortals to vehicles/monsters/characters - instead of destroying them - but the termies with hvy weapons are neither)
@oldmangames9292 but if I add a terminator librarian? He is a character I could add to the unit with hazardous weapons. And you get to select the model that takes the hazardous effect
@@blackvalordragoon I guess you could.. I think.. but would you really want to risk losing a character and using up a 1-per-game ability just to use an inferior weapon?
Instead you could just use a CML, do more damage and don't worry about hazardous.
SECOND
Wraithguard and Wraithblades...
awful lot of ork propaganda going on here
Dwarves have better terminators than Dark Angels now. These are dark times lads.
Just play the original 10th data sheets like every other dark angel player. First week post codex was a 38% win rate WITH ironstorm.
Yup. Haven't managed to summon the desire to play 40K since the codex dropped due to the sheer disgust at the pathetic parody for a codex supplement we got. An I only played a single game since the january leaks.
I could troll but I sense great pain in this comment.
Lorewise, as it should be(dark age tech)
honestly what pisses me off more is that space wolves still get a terminator lieutenant and we lost ours. Like its the deathwing, THE terminator company in the dark angels and the space wolves do it better??? our codex really was written by space wolves
Grey Knights Brotherhood Squads look great and I've seen people kitbash them with the Deathwing Terminators to a great homebrew refresh of the range.
i hope that GK gets a full refresh, they only got 3 boxes and each is like a 20 years old
It's a travesty though that you need to buy two $60 kits for one unit
Like don't get me wrong I love to kitbash, but I play orks so I can buy one kit and then throw spare bits and plasticard on it
@@onlyhc7792 They really need it, I love grey knights but their models are so shit that It puts me off collecting them.
Man. Dark Angels really got done dirty by their Codex release. Imagine getting your Codex and coming out the other side WEAKER than you were before you had it.
Pretty common for the those first 4-5 codices into a new edition...
Look at Chaos Marines & Death Guard as recent examples;
CSM's: 1st or 2nd codex of 6th edition. A couple months of being average, then basically 2 whole editions of being dumpster fire tier.
1st or 2nd codex again in 8th edition, were barely playable.
Death Guard: 3rd or 4th codex of 8th edition, got power crept out of the game within a few months.
4th or 5th codex of 9th edition, basically spent the entire edition bottom mid/top low tier.
Being an early codex is so often such a gakshow. Best time to get your codex is across the middle of an edition as typically the devs have a better handle on how the game really plays & all the various special rules interact.
End of edition, those final 6-10 months or so can still lean towards having a top end codex, but it can also equally mean you only get maybe 6 months or so to enjoy your codex before it's nuked out of existence, OR, you get a dysfunctional "designed with the new edition in mind" deal which is really just a hybridized bastard codex which only sorta functions in both the current + new upcoming edition.
I just hope the design team is willing to amend the datasheets. They've come pretty close to doing that already. The army is locked behind a pay wall for app subscribers. If people buy the book, they've got their money, so what do they care? They should've done better with the DA and they really could fix it if they wanted to.
I don’t have to imagine it, I’m living it lol
Poorhammer and Auspex put out videos about terminators in the same day what a great day for Terminator fans.
World eater terminators suffer greatly from having literally no leaders to attach to
Welp, nothing left for us to do but pray to Khorne for the second half of their launch range, lol
No leaders, no real special rules.
WE being half an army
Free the "Red Butchers"!
Especially when they ridiculously upped the price of the MoE and nerfed the crap out of bezerker glaive.
Idiotic GW not realising it was the only points effective infantry character and wargear that was available to us
@@IamElChapoKharn was ok but even he took a hit
I feel like terminators could be brought up quite a bit by giving them bolter discipline back on their storm bolters, making them 4 shots at all ranges. This as well as having them not take a penalty to hit for thunder hammers would make them feel more like elites
The datasheets are okay IMO, they just need points cuts.
Terminators have always been some of my favorite units in 40K. So many great sculps and I have been bring 5 in almost every game for about a decade.
Agree with the grey knight paladins as a side grade, just surprised that their shooting wasn't mentioned. 3 of the 5 can have special guns and they hit on 2. Terminator group has 1 out of the 5 with a special gun, and 1 missing a gun, with shooting on 3. The loss of the narthecium when going to paladins is rough.
I run 2 paladin squads with brother captains feels good.
I am literally building the Deathwing Assault Box and this comes up, thank you Auspex XD
One thing I'd like to clarify as a Chaos player: the Undivided strategem now only gives a wound reroll and can only be used on units with that mark. The reason they still get full re-rolls is their passive ability.
Poor hammer and auspex reviewing termies the same day? A miracle for my full terminator custodes list😂
I realy like the Look of the Primaria Terminators, im a Bit sad that they arent that usefull
Recently tried a brick of assault termis in black templars. Pretty dope. Did use the death wing knight models though
10 with 2 cyclones and a attached librarian offer a respectable amount of firepower. Especially if they fish for sustained against the Oath target.
You see, you forgot the guardsman termies, the mighty BULLGRYN!
Breaks my heart to see my beloved DWK in such a state. On the + side, they look amazing on my display shelf !
Man I really need a video "Why play 40k" most battle reports I watch it just seems like a chore to pla
Scarab occult terminators are great and yes i am biased
They're fun, but way too expensive, in squads of less than 10, they are not lethal or survivable enough, and in squads of 10, they are too expensive for their toughness
The insane thing is that Deathshroud Terminators came down 5 points in the most recent balance dataslate, while Blightlord Terminators received no buffs of any sort. As usual, it's a complete mystery what GW was thinking.
I love my Assault Termies in my Templars army! Big blob of them + Captain w/ T-Bones and an Ancient. Expensive, but 52 wounds at T5, 2+/4++, 5+ FNP makes them crazy hard to shift. Maybe not super competitive, but dang are they fun!
I'm hoping the Assault Termis will be released with the Templar Codex, but I would also love some Sword Brethren with combat shields :)
@@thelonesomedrummer351the deathwing knights aren’t too hard to convert, as long as you have some bits to replace the aquila on the chest. The mauls can stand in for thunderhammers, and you could probably use the old lightning claws
@@thelonesomedrummer351 I'm really hoping we get new Assault Termies soon! The new Captain looks hilariously huge next to the old Assault Termies.
I'd love to see Sword Brethren Termies!
Riiiight… let’s take the Deathwing rules away from the Deathwing and give them to everyone else instead. Guess that does make the Deathwing different and special compared to all the rest of the terminators out there. At least the whole company only deploys in terminator armor. Oh, wait…
the best terminators are the tau crisis suits, change my mind
I've been using Terminators in Sons of Sanguinius lead by a Chaplain and it can get quite silly. Against your Oath target you're almost always hitting and wounding on 2s in melee.
Sounds gnarly, how do you deliver them to the fight?
I'd assume Deep Strike+Rapid Ingress
I really think the worst part about the dwk is the 5 man squad. At oc 1 it will not hold an objective against any horde, the unit footprint is very small so they are poor wall for screening against charges, and their attack potential is pretty low so they don't act like a great distraction carnifex. At 235 points they are mainly there to bog one thing down FOREVER, because they are so hard to kill.
Honestly maces needed to stay damage 3, but what the power weapons *really* needed were more attacks.
And I don't just mean this for DA as well. It feels like there are way more optimized anti MEQ options than anti horde out there.
CSM Terminators have access to full reroles and exploding 6s on the combi weapons, with a Lord they get to use the AoC strat for free and can benefit from normal cover aswell, I'd argue some of the best in the game.
5/10 for Blightlords lol, how the mighty have fallen.
I admit I was getting sick of hearing about Blightlords in previous editions but it still seems like GW can't just bring a unit back ro the middle.
Although I suppose 5/10 should be the "middle"??
Great video as always. Would you consider Paragon Warsuits a type of terminator? If so, how would they stack up?
I feel like terminators have been done dirty across the board with piss-poor OC stats.
In Righteous Crusaders with Tännhausers Bones you can give a brick of 10 Terminators a 5+++ FnP. Which is very unique and powerful to Black Templars. 4 Wound Models with 2+, 4++ and 5+++ break Math quite hard!
Attaching Chaos Termies to Abbadon is a rookie mistake. His aura allows rerolls for hits and a 4+ invuln, which the Termies already get.
I'm glad you made this video, because maybe now GW will see how ugly and old GK Terminators are and give them new models.
I’m a grey knights player, and I was the 666th like. It’s all coming together…
lol, the BEST terminators in 40k were in 2E, when you had a 3+ save....but had 2d6 to do it LOL. Termies could shrug off lascannons. 10E is such trash it is literally making me yearn to play 2E....and 2E was hot garbage compared to 3/4/5E
I ran 5 Assault Termies with a Termy Chaplain, and absolutely mulched an undamaged Ghost Keel battlesuit.
Lightning Claws were always a little disappointing for me. Ditch twin-linked, and give it Sustained Hits 2 and +1 base attack to REALLY drive home the fact they murder MEQs and down. Right now it feels too similar in usage to the other options. Units should have their own niche. Make the fists/hammer Str 9 to better hurt Medium vehicles/monsters. Give the hammer Dmg 3 and remove Devastating Wounds. It will still lose to the Chain Fist vs heavy tanks, and the power fist vs MEQs and Lighter. But it will do slightly better vs medium tanks, Monsters, and especially Gravis. You can toss the Devastating Wounds the Chainfist's way if you want to keep it a superior vehicle basher, though you may want to drop the anti-tank to 4 in that case.
What you'd end up with is Lightning Claw Assault Terminators out meleeing fist's into most things infantry shaped, Chainfists being king vs vehicles, and hammers being a Gravis and vehicle/monster slayer. Slap on a Primaris level bolter in place of the current storm bolter (so, AP -1, Assault, Heavy to the current stat block. I'd also say +6 inches of range, which Bolt Rifles should have kept), and maybe dare to up the heavy weapons to 2/5 in regular terminators, and you have a shooty hybrid terminator, and a dedicated melee terminator with two distinct modes. Throw in a few other changes, like a slight buff to the Assault Cannon and Heavy Flamer to better compare to the Cyclone, and the units would be fantastic.
As much as I want to agree on the level you've given the Scarab Occult, in their current point-cost level they're just not worth it. Slow, not so tanky - even with the -1 to wound with higher strength weapons, and rather pillowfisted ranged weapons - all hitting on 3's. In an edition where cover is almost always applied, they're never worth dumping the 2 CP/1 cp + 6 cabal on to 'boost', which is probably why they're so high costed. Forget that the squad leader CANNOT fire his psychic attack and his combi-bolter at the same time unlike almost every sorcerer we have; whilst the solo term sorc can do both. 330 points with the combo char+squad.
They're just bottom tier. Almost worse than Deathwing.
Giving Deathwimg Knights 6/10 is absurd to the 9/10 to the allerus. Especially because of price. A 5 man allerus is 325 points and they do not get -1 to damage, which makes the Deathwimg arguably just as good al things considered. They have the same saves and the same wounds only toughness splits them. Also they are not as commonly taken as wardens and guard, and definitely not in numbers. But with 4 custodes units to chose from we don't really have all that much of a choice. Anyway, no matter how you look at it, 230p is not expensive for Deathwimg Knights. Allerus are generally overrated for the actual cost you have to pay for them but lack of choice almost force them into the team.
Dang no love for the Abberants? JK i know they have no armor. Personally I’ll give them 7/10. Since they are the only unit in the GSC index with staying power and hit like a truck, but still squishy.
I’m biased. I have played grey knights since like 2006 so those have been the best in my mind for 18 years now. I know they aren’t actually the best, I have gotten overconfident plenty of times and had my terminators get wiped on the charge against other terminators. Something about fielding 20-40 silver terminators will always bring a smile to my face though and they do pretty well. Custodes terminators though… I will avoid those like the plague. They are like an ex girlfriend, stay away. I don’t care how much I think I can handle it, I can’t. They will chew me up and spit me out crying. I’ll just keep my distance and take shots.
Way off the mark on the differences between a brotherhood terminator squad and paladins.
1. Paladins don’t get access to the apothecary and thus are less durable overall not being able to restore models
2.they’re OC1 opposed to OC 2 in BTs, making them objectively worse with the banner than standard terminators
3. They don’t get access to lethal hits on the charge, making them less efficient in melee than standard terminators
4. They cost most for what is a worse ability and profile
So with all that in mind, how can you rank them 8/10 like brotherhood terminators? They’re a less efficient, more expensive unit.
im rather sad i didn't see any abberants, as they are the gsc's terminators, and i think they could rank rather high (4+ FNP with 3 wounds and -1 to wound if S>T is pretty powerful, and they are pretty hard to bring down, plush 3 damage per weapon at ap -2 and T6)
I love the fact you and poor hammer cover the same topic on the same day.
That said, I feel like terminators don't fit my playstyle. Too slow, and I have better luck with my death company (they survive better by getting into combat so they can't be shot, and eliminate the enemy so there's nothing meaningful to strike back).
Love the models, hate how slow they are. Even deep striking they don't have a great chance of landing a charge, and as a blood angels player not missing charges is very important.
Sure, I could rapid ingress them, but say I ri 12" out to keep them safe. I move, and it's a 7 inch charge. If the unit i intend to hit with the terminators charges a unit further away, I'm back to most likely not going to land the charge again.
They are just too many pts to be worth it. Could maybe use them as a durable home objective holder, but too expensive for that.
As slow and as many points as they are they should at least have much higher DMG output at range (their melee is fine).
A squad of 5 terminators doesn't have the DMG output of 3 aggressors.
They are terminators, they should terminate things both at range and up close.
What about the Tau? Broadsides or enforcer battlesuits? Heavy weapons, 2+ save, multi-wound models
Love my sculpts but feels bad having DA and loads of reason Custodes termies :-( rule of cool yes, but really feels bad actually playing them!!
This is horrifying, Deathwing knights are kinda shit… they should be lore wise scarier than any other marine varient terminator in combat… any of them, Kaldor Draigo remarks of the Deathwing they would be terrible opponents to have to face… and they aren’t even the peak of the dark angels terminators… how badly GW have cocked up their rules is frankly outrageous… hell i would suggest Blood angels terminators are better… god damn wolf guard are just better by virtue of being able to configure like old Deathwing could and just forget about with the deathshroud and the scarab occult guys they are much stronger…. Hell heir fucking weapons are god damn embarrassing…those maces are soft and those swords are lame, super fucking lame… the master of the deathwing is an embarrassing character…
I absolutely don’t understand the point of underestimating a unit when there is a stronger one in the army. How is this supposed to give a clear assessment for a person whose army, for example, does not have that very alternatively best unit?
To me this looks like a deliberate damage to the rating. After all, no one will ever put terminators on the Blightlord table, for example. "Only 5 out of 10! Disgusting! Terrible! Better without terminators at all... So what other units are there?"
At the same time, this is a very good unit for tanking damage and engaging the enemy in melee for their points.
Ruleswise, GK termies need to seriously be head and shoulders above everyone elses termies... an elite army that is conceptually built around termies... doesnt really field anything special in that regard... pillow-fisted is the term. Their units sit in between space marines and Custodes in price, but are outperformed by both for the cost, and do not have nearly enough ways to boost their output... I just want our termies to be terrifying... rather than annoying... is that to much to ask?
Auspex and poorhammer both posted Terminator ranking videos within hours of each other... Are they in cahoots? 🤔
Upvoting for dwarf terminators. ROCK AND STONE!
Poorhammer: “you will never be better than Auspex”
Also Poorhammer: loses to Auspex by 5 hours on the same topic
Ought to have included the wraith guard, and the aggressors.
Terminator Lieutenant model and rules please GW
I'm guessing unlikely since they actually removed it from the Dark Angels in their recent codex release.
@@oldmangames9292 you are guessing that GW won't release a Terminator LT model in the future?
I think it's just a matter of time. And the more we ask. The sooner it becomes.
Gravis LT aswell.
@@richarddixon1450 Can only really guess based on the direction they seem to be heading in - which looks to be removing them from those codices that do(did) have them. Perhaps they will add them back at some point in the future, but I can't see it being in 10th ed - given that we already have marines codex out, and DA codex - neither which has them. (They were originally on the DA index). I'd guess SW will lose theirs when their codex comes out too - in line with DA.
Ahem..., Wolf Guard, ignore any or all modifiers and +1 to hit oath of the moment targets making thunder hammers a bit more fun.
I find it hard to warrant running any terminators, honestly. The only ones I've ever consistently run were Deathshroud
the best terminators are the BULLGRYNS end of discussion
You forgot to mention that WE Termies don't have any character support.
I love terminators but I don’t think they are “worth” it this edition…still using them thiugh
Where would wraithblades be ranked? Basically aeldari termies…