Mobile Ham Radio Grounding and Bonding Electric Car!
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- Опубліковано 16 лис 2019
- I've been quite happy with my Yaesu ATAS-120a & FT-891 HF ham radio installation. Let me show what I did to bond the hood, doors and the back hatch to reduce the RFI into the radio. Bonding is important for a mobile install reduce your ambient noise
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I think this install video is brief but ground breaking. Not many people are daring enough to set up an HF rig in an electric car. I would add "electric car" somewhere in the video title because I am sure this series is going to be a youtube reference. Great job!!
Thank you for the kind words.
Very good video! Thanks for the grounding tips. I plan to install my FT-891 in my vehicle and use the ATAS 120 antenna.
Pure gold, Josh! Thank you so much. I'm adding an ATAS-120A that I picked a few months back to my motorhome this weekend. Keep up the good work.
Great tips to share! Working commercial radio for over 25 years couldn't agree more on bonding all parts of the body. Many people don't realize that many times car doors are removed from the car body during certain phases of assembly and those areas missed during the initial color spray are touched up before final assembly. This results in doors electrical insulted from the main body. Another tip, keep a close eye out at the ground straps on doors that are opened continuously, they WILL wear out and break. One common complaint on police cruisers was "the radios quit working". Check out the ground straps on the trunk lid where most antennas are mounted, most often the straps failed after a few years. Once replaced problem solved.
I love the "tower mount" used on the instal with remote heads but if you have passengers in the front seat make sure they wear their seat belts. One officer I knew of had a bad collision and met Mr. Tower the wrong way. Mr Tower was equipped with full size radios. Many months of rehab but he was to blame as well, did not wear his seat belt.
This is the best grounding explanation video I have seen.
Early Sunday post! Great job and very interesting!
All my HF contacts have been mobile with a FT-857D and ATAS-120.... Best thing ever!!!!.. I have yet to set up a home base.
Nice!
Great video, really interesting. I would have never thought all of that grounding was needed.
Its not needed for VHF/UHF, but it helps for HF.
Nice clean install!👊
4:35 - Best line, "When you have an electric vehicle and hit the 'gas' it creates noise."
Thanks. Very interesting.
I have not an electric car but a cargo trike where I recently installed an ebike conversion kit to. I have a Jensen AM/FM motorcycle radio on it. Often times, though not consistently, the radio reception goes out when I open the throttle for the motor. I've been experimenting with braided shields to put over various wires and cables to try to filter out the noise. They have noticeably helped, but have not completely eliminated the problem. Still figuring things out and learning as I go.
Great job on the ground straps. The stock grounding wires if any are actually there are so minimal and frail. When I use to design demob vehicles for Alpine, we went just a couple steps further;
* Ground from battery to chassis
* Ground from engine to body
* Ground from engine to frame
I understand yours is electric, just wanted to add for those with gas engines.
ps... received my license yesterday: KN6FQZ, hard to say, trying to get something easier
Like the comments, good additions. The EVs actually do have battery to chassis ground and to the motor. It does help alot I feel.
Another great video, Josh! I asked you in another video for HF antenna recommendations and I guess I should have been listening better as you described using The Yeasu TOS antenna. What if you didn’t have the Yeasu radio though? Just point me to some manuals or reading material. I am planning on bonding everything to my truck frame as well. Again, thanks for the video. You are so good at explaining radio to us noobs!
I had the ATAS-120 on my Ram 3500 but it didn’t handle the all season travel well. I wouldn’t recommend leaving it on in the rain or if you drive in the winter in an area where they treat the roads with an anti-ice solution. These antennas can be serviced if you search the web for others that have done it. I have not taken mine apart yet but I will eventually. This antenna is really the best for the YAESU radios.
Good luck with the movie setup!
Luckily we have no rain and no winters. 🤣
I have mine installed on my ram 2500 on a right front fender bracket the bracket is grounded to the body with the bolt but i ran a ground wire to the under hood ground bolt. I’m going to take the negative off the battery and see if it helps get that noise floor down a little. I can transmit like crazy from Texas to east and west coast. Its really hard to receive low power signals though. I think I’ll try some of these straps on the doors, hood and bed. Ive noticed weird issues with static getting quieter when i touch the 891. Or pull on the mic cable.
An antenna you can’t use in the rain mmmmmm
No electric car here, but bonding is VERY important for the ATAS120A. I've put it on my Chrysler Town&Country with my Yaesu 857D. I live in San Antonio TX and can talk with both East and West coasts virtually back to back. Good antenna if well bonded.
Friend of mine has that antenna, his only complaint is lack of 80 meters. To not have an extra box in the vehicle though is nice.
I want that 891 so bad!
Super
Nice Bonding. Now just quadruple the amount of bonding you have done. The antenna will become more efficient and you will see the impedance drop before the matching coil to verify the effect. 73, Dan KM6CQ
Great when you get a beer delivery lol
Nice little Easter egg in there for you all.
@phục êwê Power of the internet my friend
I'm using a little tarheel and have a tough time tuning below 3swr. I thought it was ground related and am getting told by old timers that the cure is drilling into my 2yo 4Runner. Something I really don't want to do. I'm told that once a ball mount has good metal to metal body attachment the grounding will be good. I'm also using an mobile autotuner that requires one to three points on each band for the tuner to learn. I have a significant time and financial investment in this and wont give up. I was even out in 19 degree snowstorms in Michigan trying to add extra 12 ga wire grounds in addition to all the door, hood, hatch, and body/ frame/ muffler grounds so that I could work HF on the 11 hour drive home but no dice. I was just trying to tune one spot using a nano vna on a one band back then using the supplied rocker switch. Trying to tune by the noise the radio generates (loudest noise is on band, suggested by Tarheel saying autotuners are not needed) is a dumb idea since you cant hear squat in a moving vehicle. They probably were referring to tuning while parked but even that isn't a great idea since the VNA shows several dips in the swr across the HF, 1.6 to 45 mhz on the VNA. I know that 6m is not HF, no need for corrections, just stating that I had a wide window to look at swr set up on the vna. You could get fooled into thinking the tuning was correct unless seeing the entire spectrum. This was my experience and it may be unique and not representative of anyone else's experiences. It's time to scratch that itch again and fiddle with it some more tonight. Cheers.
Here are some tips. Never use an auto tuner with a tar heel or coil tuned antenna. It’s suppose to be manually adjusted to find the match. The easiest way to tune these is to have something that gives a constantly updating swr display then adjust the antenna up or down to move the curve.
You could turn your tax power down on your transceiver in a mode like fm or am and begin adjusting the Tar Heel while watching the swr.
If you want to reduce noise and ground loops in a mobile radio connect the positive line to the battery. Obviously you will have a fuse in this line. Then connect your Radio GROUND TO A GROUND inside the car, like a seat mounting bolt. Do not connect the negative power lead to the battery. Doing it this way will reduce noise and you won’t have ground loops.
You can always use the antenna as a lightning arrester and charge your battery really fast.
Only when travelling 88 MPH
1.21 Gigawatts!!!!
What luck! We have the same car... And you have dissuaded me from putting an hf rig in it. Great video though!
I have the Yaesu FT7900 in my car with a mag Aentena on the roof.
Hey did you ever do the second video on how you wired the rig to cut down noise?
I also bonded my muffler to the car body.
That is less of a problem for an electric vehicle.
@@HamRadioCrashCourse lmao, I bet you wrote that with a straight face :)
I was going to mention the noise floor effect from an electric car vs a gasoline engine seems like it would be measurably different but I’m definitely not an expert.
Btw, I just subbed! 👍🏻
Christian Hoffman I think you can get cream for that.
Exactly what Lido Mount do you have? I can't find that model on the Lido site.
Bond EVERYTHING to ground that hangs down, sticks out, opens or closes. They ALL are antennas!
Dave K8WPE
Dang, I'm a truck driver in a company truck, I thought I could get away with just bonding the mounts... I really don't want to go through that work on a vehicle that isn't my own.
Hey Josh do you have plans to make or release the footage of the radio install you mentioned here? I would be interested in seeing it.
I guess that’s a new meaning to Crash Course.
Yeah man. I just got it rigged up. Really loving life then, wham. Out of hffor a three weeks.
Ham Radio Crash Course that’s rough. I’m sure your insurance was interested with the equipment in there! I hope you got a chance to de-rig it before getting it fixed.
I had an ATAS 120 and for my situation (running it as a base) it did not fit my needs the radio I was using with it was the ft857d and due to how close I am to a shipyard I get alot of noise and running any verticle would be a sure noise gatherer so I switched to running ham sticks in dipole configuration then to 102 inch whips in dipole configuration now I am looking at running something that will get me on 80 meters and not be to long in doing so as I have limited space and hooking that to my TS2000
Fun, didn't know you had a Leaf too.
If we put enough of them together we’d have a tree!
I’ll see myself out.
could you make a review with the Nagoya UT106 and UT108 antenna?
For those interested, I'm using the Lido car seat arm
www.lidomounts.com/catalog/item/8254956/10317177.htm
I also purchased the extension bracket for two Yaesu headunits. You will need to purchase a second yaesu ball mount for the second head unit.
www.lidomounts.com/catalog/item/8254956/8951881.htm
www.lidomounts.com/catalog/item/8254956/9123566.htm
A hacksaw cuts through the seat mount easily to get the height you want.
Did nissan say anything about it I am running a 15amp battery in trunk of my new one cause I don't want nissan voiding the warntey
Must have been a re-Leaf to see it working.
I'll get my coat
lol
That antenna is soooooo new to me. What do you consider the best? I need one now lol
My UPS guy just tosses my stuff from the truck. Nice Sunday Treat video. KJ7IEA
Reviving an old video, but I’m researching what is needed for installing HAM in a Tesla. Bonding is a good topic, what about a hanging bonding strap to drag the ground like what you see on welding rigs? Would the dragging introduce more noise than it eliminates,
Having tried it for a few years, I don’t believe it does a damn thing. 😅
My Prius hatch is carbon fiber. Not sure how the grounding might be done. I'm contemplating a bracket for the antenna mounted to a tow hook through the bumper, though haven't found too many examples of this having been done.
Yes, I have a friend that did that. Hitches work well with screwdriver antennas.
What is a good way to do this? I have 2x 3.5mm audio in feeds, out to 1 headphone, while prioritizing 1 of the feeds then auto switiching back to the other feed when the priority side has no traffic? Prioritize scanner feed then switch back to audio on my motorcycle. TY and subbed
What is your end goal?
@@HamRadioCrashCourse End goal is headphones in my helmet auto switching between HF and music . I have 2 in feeds(3.5mm). 1st is radio traffic that i would like to prioritize, 2nd is audio feed(low priority) music from youtube. I want the radio side to be prioritized when active and then automatically switch back to music. Some kind of tiny mixer that can be adapted to my motorcycle?
Wonder if this would work on a Prius 2019.
Nice work, but is it safe (all this grounding) with electric vehicles? What will happen if car (and main power cable) would be damaged in a accident?
Probably an electrical short. The chassis is already bonded to the major electrical components. If there was an issue, the addition of my bonding and radio would not change anything.
Aren't the doors and hatch bonded by the bolts that hold them to the body? Or does paint effect it too much?
Yep. The coatings, hinges and fasteners all get in the way. Some are better than others of course. Try it out yourself. My car need the bonding, or else I would not have done it had the noise been lower from the start of the install.
@@HamRadioCrashCourse Thanks :)
Hi, whats the average (long distance)QSO you made with that setup? and using which band?
Average? Idk. Few minutes to over ten minutes. Duration really isn’t an issue. 20 meters and 40 meters are more active, so I generally use those.
Have you found any benefit or need to put a choke on the feedline to prevent common mode current?
Oh yeah chokes all over. Go see my mobile radio install video.
@@HamRadioCrashCourse - I watched and saw your mention of chokes on the power lines, but I didn't see any mention of one being on the coax. To be clear, I'm referring to the ATAS-120A coax. Keeping a choke OUTSIDE of the car with a lip mount is tricky business. HAHA! Thanks! -Scott, KE4WMF
@@StealthGTI I have toroids on both power and feedline.
How are the; hatch, hood, and doors not bonded to the passenger compartment already? Are the bolts for the openings too powder coated on the threads.
Some hinges are poor conductors or
painted.
J R. I wonder if a multi meter could be used to assess electrical conductivity of the hinges? Josh did you need to drill new holes? If so did you tread the holes for the bolts?
@@douglasdreger3852 DMM would measure DC resistance, not AC impedance.
Josh what is the part number for the Lido mount for the two faces.
I'm using the seat bolt mount and extenstion bracket for two head units. I suggest calling Lido to place your order so you can make sure to get the two Yaesu ball mounts you need to complete the kit.
www.lidomounts.com/catalog/item/8254956/8951881.htm
Does the serrated lock washer bite in to the paint/metal enough for the needed connection instead of removing paint or do you need to do both?
That is specifically why we use the serrated washers, they bit in enough without having to sand and compromise the vehicles finish.
@@HamRadioCrashCourse last question! That serrated washer goes behind the hinge against the body? Or is the hinge itself already connected to the body? (Are pieces individually painted so technically the hinge is not connected to the body?) Would putting it between the hinge and body make the door close funny?
You put them on both sides of the hinges. The ideal being that between the flanges and the bolts you’re making electrical connection somewhere.
Did you bond the exhaust system to the body as well? ;)
@Chuck Finley yes i know, i was just joking :)
K0lwc should take note. He has a tesla
Led wreak havoc on receive
Will an MFJ-336T Goliath Tri-Magnet Mount base be strong enough to use with this antenna?
Should be. But you might want to see if anyone has actually done it online.
After having it a couple years how has this set up turned out? I'm Currently looking at the same exact hardware but in a different vehicle.
Zero issues.
What mounting system is that for the radio?
Its the Yaesu seat mount and extension backet.
Did you ever do a follow up? Post a link?
I did, its focused on my mobile radio setup.
I have an aluminum body Ford F-150. Any suggestions on how to ground to it.
Kevin I'm in the same boat/truck - 2018 F-150. I haven't installed a HF rig yet. I have installed a VHF/UHF radio with no noticeable issues ... other than getting the power source wire through the fire wall! It took some doing but eventually I found a smart-clean route from the battery to the radio. As far as bonding for HF, I'm guessing the aluminum body will be the same as a steel body truck. When in doubt, BOND BOND BOND!
I had a friend do this in a similar vehicle, he bonded all of the doors and tailgate everything he could to the main body, then bonded the body to the frame with a couple straps he got great results
What about the swr tho ? Do you get 1.1 in all bands with atas120a with this bonding ?
It’s not all about SWR. With that said, it’s a good mobile hf antenna.
What about adding a grounding strap to the pavement from the body?
I tested it. It doesn’t do anything appreciable.
What about a noise filter on the power wires
I use toroids. Check the link to my other video.
Ive heard that hybrids and radios dont mix? Im about to pick up a prius and put a gmrs unit… will i come across any issues?
You might. You’ll need to do a lot of bonding if you do run into issues.
@@HamRadioCrashCourse i will be using a mag mounted antenna, how do i do the bonding? Sorry for the questions
@@DPascual2011 happy to answer questions, but in this case, the video is about how to do the bonding.
Do you recommend ferrite chokes in a mobile installation
Yes of you need them.
Where do you recommend applying them
Can install KW level TRX
I have a Tesla it would be real hard on a model 3 cause aluminum body
Star Washers
So you literally put the "crash" in ham radio crash course, huh?
And I and another ham in my area recently got my own vehicle ground-bonded.
Nice Nissan Leaf Ham mobile setup Josh. Recommendation for future video: how to view and participate in DISCORD. Mike N6IMY
Send me a message somewhere if you’re having any issues.
How do you hit the gas in an electric car? 🤔😁
Lol
What is that car?
2013 Nissan Leaf
@@HamRadioCrashCourse wow
"Dirty car." LOL dude, you have no idea what dirty means. Hunting trips lead to real dirt everywhere.
@Nunya Dibness Because when you're pulling the T-Case to install a slip yoke eliminator so that you don't bust another U-Joint next time you're out in the boonies, it's kinda nice to not have all of that dried mud that you picked up falling in your face.