Melissa Dougherty on the Word of Faith: My Response
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- Опубліковано 30 тра 2022
- Responding to Melissa Dougherty's comments attempting to link Word of Faith teaching to New Thought and the Law of Attraction. Includes links to previous videos addressing the issues she raised.
Source Video - • Video
My Video on Little Gods - • The Little Gods Doctri...
My Previous Video on Melissa - • Melissa Dougherty on t...
My Video on Prosperity and the Bible - • What Does the Bible Sa...
My Video on The God Kind of Faith - • The God-Kind of Faith:...
My Video on The Roots of the Word of Faith (part 1) -
• Did Kenneth Hagin Take...
My Video on The Roots of the Word of Faith (part 2) - • Did E. W. Kenyon Take ...
Little Gods Discussion - • Controversial Doctrine...
Rebutting Melissa on Joel Osteen - • Melissa Dougherty on J...
My Video on Benny Hinn and WoF - • What Benny Hinn said i...
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👏 You nailed it. It's so frustrating that they keep passing around wrong information. When you said not It's not new thought It's New Testament 🤣
THANK YOU JESUS! Even though I’m still struggling to put groceries in the refrigerator. I STILL TRUST YOU LORD! Faith is trusting in God durning hard times. Faith is what is getting me through my hard situation. I’m still struggling to providing for my two autistic children since losing my job over declining the vaccine. I declined due to my pre existing health condition (Lupus) and Heart disease. I was denied my medical/religious exemption from Forsyth Hospital. My husband passed away three years ago, so I’m all alone. Both of my sons are non verbal so things are more hard on me. Every month I don’t know how we are going to make it through. Every month is a struggle, a battle to not end up on the streets. I’m so depressed and embarrassed by my situation. I’ve been put down and mocked over my circumstances. I’m so ashamed and overwhelmed. BUT because of my faith God shows up every month and provides. He has even sent strangers to help me, thank you Father. Even as I face homelessness with two young children seemingly every month!
I know that God will provide abundantly. Thank you Jesus. I BELIEVE in you!
Dear Mousey, in Jesus name, i speak life to your two sons. Jesus stripes at the whipping post have already healed them. I bind down all the power of the enemy and loose the life of Abba Father into their bodies. They shall be perfectly well and their minds shall function perfectly well NOW in Jesus name!
You can try to listen to the divine healing series from the john g lake ministries to live in divine health.
I’m all in favor of health and wealth.
Like the Mormons, those Calvinists don’t like accurate research and objectivity, and because they don’t want to be found wrong.
True
I shared a link to this video in the comments on her video and it got deleted.
Shocking!😳
Thank you for sharing this video on Melissa video as this is where I saw the link and decided to come and listen this video so very much that is how truth get shared and taught Amen .... Thank you to you Jew and Greek something just doesn't sit right with me about all Melissa speaks about and I learnt some really good information and teachings on this video please do more 🙏✝
@@lalalee8269 Oh good! I shared the link in her community post, in a comment on the video, and in a reply to someone. I think the reply is the only comment of mine that didn't get deleted.
@@Melkhi Yes isn't it terrible that things get deleted ..!! I constantly speak scripture and I became very concerned when I saw her video although I don't agree with Melissa on all things. It is good to hear Rod discuss what Melissa said and also we are able to research it ourselves. I also watched the one he did on Joyce Meyer with DOreen that was also great I am grateful I came across this channel Thanks to you so keep sharing have a wonderful day Ps118:24
GOOD JOB BROTHER ROB, I HAVE BEEN UNDER DAD HAGINS TEACHINGS WELL OVER FORTY YEARS, THE WORD WORKS,ONE OF THE FEW MEN OF GOD TEACHES AND SHOWS YOU FROM THE WORD HOW TO LIVE AND MOVE AND HAVE OUR BEING IN CHRIST ACTS 17:28 BLESSED BE GOD!!!
“We should reach out positively to express our concern and love for those with whom we disagree,” and Rod does with this wonderfully on Jew and Greek
I'd like to go listen to how she comes to these conclusions, but my guess is that she belongs to a denomination that does not permit a woman to teach a man and I'd like to respect her beliefs.
Kenyon was not Pentecostal…he was a Free Will Baptist
I really don’t know why she refuses to correct this error if she supposedly seeks truth!
Wow brother; I don't know how you do it! I often tremble when I listen to Melissa and her ilk, realizing they are slandering (and often, libeling) fellow believers in Christ. You are truly fulfilling the old adage, "I do this so you don't have to." Thank you for stating and restating the truth in such a systematic manner, and also, thank you for your interviews, teachings and Musical Mondays. Keep up the good work, and may God multiply your tribe!
As far as modalism goes, I think she means some Oneness Pentecostals are modalists. She just has a really bad understanding of theology in general. She just doesn't seem to be able to distinguish between how some groups use words differently.
As far as I can tell all Oneness Pentecostals are modalists. It's kind of implied in the word Oneness. But I don't know what that has to do with the subject of little gods. She's just not making any sense.
Thank you for being a voice for truth. I love your channel and am enriched by it.
There is such a massive misunderstanding by self-proclaimed (self-righteous?) "discernment ministries." I have much to say, but will keep to just this little nugget. Knowing that the enemy specializes in deceit and counterfeit, why is it so hard to understand at least the possibility that the new age/new thought is a distortion/counterfeit of sound biblical understanding and scripture rather than more charismatic leaning doctrine always being contaminated by new thought?
This is exactly my thought on the matter. The enemy can't create anything. He can only pervert what God has created.
Great video rod! Question, do you believe in pre or post trip rapture?
I used to be pre-trib but now I'm pan-trib
@@JewandGreek Ah I see, cool! I'm post myself.
Brother Rod I am thinking now a days just like that Bible says that People will not walk in sound doctrine but rather gather teachers around them to satisfy their itchy ears to hear what they want. Somehow i feel J P and people from his group are such teachers that people have gathered around them. 😑
"but rather gather teachers around them" - Precisely. UA-cam seems to be the go-to tool with which to do this. 95% of the 'Christian' Content on YT magnifies ignorance and fills an ocean of doctrine with misleading winds. I view WOF a lot like the land of Canaan. Its where God ordained His people to live, to flourish, to grow and to prosper. Thats also why it was filled with tribes of giants. Interesting to note THEY called 'Joshua a robber.' It makes perfect sense to me that the core of Faith Teaching at the center of WOF is surrounded by giants and false agents. In fact, I'd be worried if it didn't.
@@haraldhusefest5273 Justin Peters
Sir, you are the real deal. Thank you so much for exposing this anti-teaching.
Thank you for this video. Oddly I was think about this the other day. I found that Miss Dougherty claims not to be a Calvinist and I was going to ask her why she follows their explanation of WOF and if she would re research her previous video and understand more about the subject. Well I guess not. In her video she never shows actually examples of her claims. She doesn’t even quote Kenneth Hagin to show us he taught new age. I remember a long time ago as a teen in a denomination, our class asked the pastor about about some of these passages about the Holy Spirit. He said the it is like a fish, the parts that we don’t understand are like the bone we put aside. Imagine this is still being taught today.
I looked in Hebrews chapter 11. I do not find where it says that creation came by faith. Maybe I overlooked it. What verse in Hebrews 11 is it? Thanks.
Hebrews 11:3
@@JewandGreek You said, 'The first act of faith is creation.' Which verse is that? Thank you.
Great analysis once again, thanks Rod!
Thank you Brother for yet another amazing explanation. Just love the details you provide, which help us cement what we believe!
Very good! Thank you!
Hey how's it like going? Haven't seen you comment in like a while.
I think a good rule of thumb is: define your terms, then we'll debate . I have been in Pentecostal/Charismatic churches all of my life. And, I'll certainly admit that we have had more than our share of "granola" Christians (Fruits, flakes, and nuts); However, I think many people make the mistake of throwing all pentecostals into the same basket. There are lots of differences of opinion among pentecostals just as there are among Baptists.
The Baptist Churches have all kinds of splinter groups; Southern Baptists, Missionary Baptists, Freewill Baptists, Primitive Baptists, etc. etc. I don't think any of these groups are heretics; they just have different opinions on certain teachings. The pentecostals are the same way. The United Pentecostal, Charismatics, Word of Faith, Apostolic, Assemblies of God, and independent pentecostal Churches are the same way. They have some things in common, but disagree on certain doctrinal teachings. That does not mean they're heretics . I've seen fringe groups in the Baptist churches,, Pentecostal Churches, Methodist Churches and several others that PROBABLY WERE HERETICS. In fact, the Methodist denomination had a huge split because of heretical teaching. The liberal faction of the Church began accepting homosexual marriage as normal Christian conduct, and ordaining homosexuals into the ministry. NOW THAT IS HERESY!!!
Well done Rod! Thanks for responding to the (inaccurate) critique. Learnt lots from you. Thanks.
.Many persons strangely confound this strange anti-Christian error with Divine Healing, "
AB Simpson 1890
Quoting the founder of the Christian and Missionary Alliance, AB Simpson in his FOURTH edition of "The Gospel of Healing" published in 1890 has an appendix called "So-called Christian Science"
It seems like the confusion still continues.
Alot of the faith principles are in that book and that long predates Kenyon.
The book is available in pdf Online'
Will check it out. I would love to read more about him. Any books you recommend?
@@spn2240 I have a pdf. Of Gospel of Healing that I attempted to send you the link.. but couldn't. Just search Canadian Alliance Gospel of Healing pdf
Or look for the book
Thanks Rod I have found your videos very helpful and have helped me to have a balanced view on many of the excesses and errors we have in some of our charismatic/pentecostal church movements we have today, you have an excellent way of presenting truthful and informative videos with much scripture to support your thoughts, keep up the good work God bless you.
Amen brother!!
Maybe she was talking about OJ Simpson. Great video Rod! I learned a lot.
Forgot about the juice. LOL
Its the prison of single non-variable ideas & 2 dimensional thinking. Its either A or B. Because it can never be all of the above and even more. 2 things can be true at the same time. However, that doesn't mean that both things which are true are ordained in their purpose and function by the Father. Law of Attraction presents a CONGRUENCY. I've watched heathens operate in FAITH and accomplish more than Word of Faith people. A law is a law and a property is a property. The sun doesn't just set on sinners and rise on saints. Its rises and sets on us all. So, it is with many Spiritual Laws and Properties.
I have a question how do WOF believers believe Job 22: 28 ?
I'm not sure I follow your question.
28You will also declare a thing,
And it will be established for you;
So light will shine on your ways.
What would be the issue for WoF people here?
@@Telkor Im not trying to be smart I came across this channel and this is the first time researching WOF I was taught that this scripture has been misused it was not actually God who spoke this but one of the men with Job, this scripture is often used a blessing scripture but should we when God didn't actually say it
I've heard some people teach that as a proof text for speaking something in faith, but I think if you consider that the man speaking was later rebuked by God you can't rely too much on what he said in this passage.
why is Melissa (and others) offended by a statement like "you don't have enough faith? of course, she is strawmanning and caricaturing WOF teaching, but why should it be a problem for us Christians to admit that sometimes we simply do not have "a strong enough faith", or that we do not have "enough faith"? to freely admit a lack of faith when there is a lack of faith is Biblical and a humble attitude, the same goes for admitting that we do not have "strong enough" faith in certain circumstances, ... what else are the Scriptures talking about when Jesus said to his disciples: "where is your faith?", or "Why are ye so fearful? how is it that ye have no faith?" ?, or when He "upbraided them for their unbelief", or exclaimed "ye of little faith", or when He said He had not found "so great faith"?? and *why* did He at all say "be unto thee according to thy faith"? and why talk about "faith to be healed" if there's no such thing as a lack of faith to be healed?? at one occasion Jesus let His disciples know that they could not cast out a demon "because of their unbelief", and did He not say that "whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, *believing* , ye shall receive"? so, what if we ask in prayer, *not* believing? ... but what is wrong, is to have a spirit of *condemnation* about it , that may not be so Biblical... so if there has occurred a spirit of condemnation in WOF circles, it certainly is not the only Christian context in which that has been found.... :)
I will say this about brother Kenyon. I believe he did speak with tongues. He wanted to be ordained through the assemblies of God when they were formed, and on the application when it asks if you speak in tongues he did say yes. Though his daughter said she never heard him speak in tongues, it certainly does not mean that he didn’t. It is true though that he was a free will Baptist. I just say this to say that he definitely did not believe that the gifts of the spirit had ceased even though he did not believe in the initial evidence doctrine of the AOG, thus not going through with ordination in the assemblies of God. I have a friend who passed away around a year ago who grew up in Angeles Temple. If my memory serves me correctly, she told me that Kenyon ministered at Angeles Temple.
✝️🔥❤️
Hey brother, one remark.
Hebrews 11: 3
Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
Never in my life will someone be able to convince me that this verse talks about God having faith. That goes to the top 3 silliest things I have ever heard someone say. It talks about us by faith understanding that the things which we see are made by the word of God.
Listen closely,
12For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
13¶And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
Faith is what we need now before that which is perfect comes. Since we cannot see (understand, know) all things like God, we need to have faith. Later (when that which is perfect comes) we might not even need to have faith, like God does not need to have faith...who knows.
2Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
I've heard it before and it's always wrong. Terrible hermeneutics to say the least. I've read many serious commentaries on this verse and chapter and none of them say this. Only WoF teaching/preaching and books say this. SMH.
wow... that should do it... if people listen, of course... but hopefully, there they had their ears fluttered, provided that it does not go into the one ear and out the other :) ... when Melissa complains that WOF people are calling faith "power", or are saying that faith "is power", she is partly right, it has sometimes been stated that "faith is a spiritual force"... but the more correct language i suppose would be that "faith *has* a spiritual force or power", for it is faith that moves mountains and you cannot move a mountain without any power.... faith causes things to change, i thought that was fundamental Christian theology... :-)
I said this up top but I'll say it here one more time. Faith isn't something that just holy and righteous people tap into. Faith is what you BELIEVE. Any human being can tap into the principles of faith and believing. I personally know of vile and wicked people who did this. They used the laws and properties of faith and believing to achieve their dreams, acquire wealth and even destroy lives along the way. What makes faith different in the Kingdom is we have the Power of GOD working with our faith which is why the powers of darkness work so heavily and mightily against us while aiding those under their direct dominion. The Principalities and Powers and Rulers of darkness bless and curse also. In fact, that was part of the reason they were set up as 'kings' over the kings and rulers of nations. Its also why Jesus had to defeat them. The problem with people like Melissa is she doesn't understand the elements that comprise the conflict on which she is building a premise to 'expose.' Simply, it would be like attempting to expose 'Flat Earth' absurdity BUT you've never seen the earth, you're ignorant of Geometry, you've heard of gravity but you're really not quite sure how that works either, you're confused about what planets do and how the solar system and galaxy works but you're going to EXPOSE 'flat earth.' Well, you can't You can't attack that which you don't have a good grasp of. If you dont understand even the basics and fundamentals of a thing you are not qualified to critique it. Thats what these people are doing. IGNORANCE MAGNIFIES IGNORANCE & INCREASES TOLERANCE of even GREATER IGNORANCE. Its UNACCEPTABLE.
You blew by modalism. What are the percieved problems with it? Do you have a video on it?
Keep up the good fight Rod.
Wow. She has no idea what she’s talking about. There are so many things she’s gotten wrong. Not only is she wrong about WOF, but about most things she said about Pentecostals/Charismatics. Very unfortunate.
Rod, Great Job as usual!! Thank you. Mellisa is so so wrong, that is difficult to listen to her.
Copeland teaches that faith is a "force." What are you thoughts on this?
I disagree
@@JewandGreek ok. Thanks.
I just dropped a link to this video on Melissa's video. I hope she does do more research. She's so wrong to repeats wrong information.
God opened my eyes to the wof false doctrine, the sad part is the only ones that are exposing wof, new age, NAR teachings are Calvinist, Baptist and OSAS...so they are jumping from one false doctrine to the next false doctrine.
From what I understand, the New Covenant, was a covenant Christ made with the, Father, before He was born a man. Somewhere in the Scriptures, it says that Jesus had faith in His Father, that His Father would keep His side of the covenant they made. When Jesus said, "It is Finished", He was speaking to the Father. He had kept His part of the Covenant. Now, it was up to the Father to keep His part. Raise Him from the dead, and seat Him at His Father right Hand, Hallelujah!!! He did, and He is, making many, many, brothers in Christ, amen!!!! I'm about to cry for the goodness of God. There is none like Him, amen!!!!
1 John 4:17-21, "Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of Judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world." I think they hate that verse the most, lol.
We are not (=). He is the Firstfruit of many brethren. He is our Eldest brother. He will forever be the First, who made Himself Last for us, so we could be like Him, glorified, praise God!!!
We will forever bow at our Most Holy Brother's feet, amen!!!....If they knew this, they'd be more humble, IMO.... Deceived, and don't know it....... May God open their eyes to their own ignorance, and heresies, amen!!!
Guy please respond if the word of faith movement is of God and why does it have deep ties into the new age?
It doesn't. People like Melissa are misleading everyone on that. ua-cam.com/video/SZ4JjyYoNvk/v-deo.html
Melissa really should find something else to do in the Body of Christ other than “discernment” ministry.
If only you knew the havoc being wrought by the Word of Faith movement here in Africa! Did I hear you right that the reason a believer may be sick, die or poor is that they do not know how to exercise faith? Here in Africa, the major word of Faith preachers have made Christianity to be made a mockery by the general public...from faking miracles ( a famous pastor here in Kenya invited his congregation in a public stadium to pray and raise from the dead 4 of his pastors who had died in a road accident, oops sorry they did not ressurect and was duly instructed by the government to allow funeral proceedings). Others have been involved in money laundering trying to manifest the millions they confess.
Why didn't Paul rebuke or challenge the faith of the church in Thessalonica who gave sacrificially out of their deep poverty ....or the poor church in the book of Revelation which is commended yet the rich Laoedisian church is rebuked by Jesus Himself.
Let's leave this OVER realised doctrine aside, until the fullness of the Kingdom in future no matter how much faith you claim to have or the "faith principles" you have mastered trials, financial challenges, sickness and ultimately physical death will come upon ALL believers.
I always knew she was fake. I don't like people who portray themselves smart and slick but really they aren't.
At 14:45-47 or there abouts, you state that the "first act of faith, was creation itself." That is not correct. It is the Word of God which framed the worlds, not the words or word of faith. We are in need of faith to please Him and that to access salvation. He is not in need of it because He always is and knows all things. If you know all things there is no need of faith. It is we who are in need of faith to gain access to His grace and all things by Him through inheritance. If I've misunderstood your meaning please clarify. As it stands, if you insist that God needs or speaks from faith then He is no more God than you nor I. And that is damnable heresy. A different God and so by a different Jesus and thus a corrupted gospel. And a corrupted gospel cannot save. These are deceptive days indeed. TJBreen in Christ 🕊✝️❤️🔥🔥🔥🙌🙏
As I explained in the video, the Bible tells us that the object of faith is the Word of God. God and His Word are one. (John 1:1) So faith in God is faith in His Word and vice versa. God has faith in His words. (Is. 55:11) So this is essentially a distinction without a difference.
@@JewandGreek Thank you for replying.... God does not have faith in His Words. God KNOWS His word WILL/HAS complet(ed)/finish what He speaks it to do. He IS HIS WORD. There is no faith involved as He knows all things, sees all things from the beginning unto the end. You are in error. Please CHANGE YOUR MIND. We operate through faith trusting in things we see not as though they were, walking by faith not by sight (where our Father speaks of things that be not as though they were, KNOWING the end from the beginning, no faith involved). As far as John 1:1 is concerned, there is no inference that God believes in His Word(s) as He IS HIS WORD(S), He SIMPLY always was, always will be, no faith involved He simply ALWAYS IS, when you know all there is no need for faith. He IS the One Lord Almighty, again KNOWING ALL THINGS FROM THE BEGINNING UNTO THE END. You are in error. PLEASE CHANGE your mind. With love for the BODY, TJBREEN in Christ🕊✝️❤️🔥🔥🔥🙌🙏Remember Thomas? Oh ye of little faith? He no longer needed faith to believe as he saw the risen Lord Jesus. He KNEW the truth. Remember Romans 8:24, KJV: For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope (read faith): for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? PLEASE CHANGE YOUR MIND...
Tedious cessationists
At about 18 minutes 26 seconds in you state that some word of faith teachers have unwisely said that if you’re not getting the results you’re wanting in the practice of Faith, then you just dont have enough faith. You elude to these teachers as if they are out there on the edge or apart of some fringe word of faith movement. I would like to state that every word of faith teacher I have ever listened to has stated this, and that it is main line in our present time. It may not be what Kenneth Haggin taught, and perhaps that is what you are trying to preserve on this UA-cam channel. You must accept though that the majority of what people hear and see in the Charismatic Movement, and more specifically in the word of faith movement in the present day is more insanity and idolatrous teachings and behaviors than balanced New Testament perspectives on Faith. The grass just isn’t that green dude. There may have been a time when Kenneth Haggin was alive that more balanced teachings were available. You also need to spend a lot more time calling out Copeland for the insane things he does and says since he his a pretty prominent fellow in the word of faith movement. Like I said, the early days of word of faith may have been better and more balanced, but those days aren’t today.
I'm familiar with most of the well-known WoF teachers over the past 40 years, and none of them stated what you just claimed. Maybe you took their statements that way, or maybe you heard some critic claim that they said it and that filtered everything you heard as a result, but the prominent WoF teachers emphasized not only the need for faith but the need for a biblical understanding of how faith works, which is really the bigger problem. For example, Kenneth Copeland (likely one of those you were referring to) says ... _"A lot of Christians think they understand what faith is. They think that if they’ve read their Bibles a few times, understand the message of salvation and believe that God can heal them (or deliver them or save them), then they are living by faith. They’ve made a decision that God loves them and so they believe they are in faith. They fail to understand that faith is more than that. It is a definite, purposeful act of the heart. It is not a mental exercise. If you want to learn how faith works in your life, then you need to know exactly what faith is and how to develop it."_ The conventional understanding of faith varies from mental assent to essentially fatalism, thus the need for a movement to move people away from the conventional toward the biblical. The critics tend to skip over all of this, but if you're honest you'll acknowledge it rather than going by a knee-jerk reaction to what your selective hearing tells you.
What????a woman teaching ???….isn’t that blasphemy?….thinking through it…maybe the cessationist are on to something ?
Like all newagers this guy attacks the person,DO NOT LISTEN TO THIS GUY ,HE IS LEADING YOU AWAY FROM JESUS NOT TO HIM,GOD'S WORD IS NOT A MAGICAL FORMULA
That's not true. I was not attacking Melissa I was responding to her video. It's called a rebuttal.
@@JewandGreek as always the truth hurts doesn't it
@@merrivoelker2531 Ask Melissa
Merri you are talk utter nonsense!!! Rod has presented TRUTH!