I am a big fan of Vito's and was interested to see what you had to say and show. I agree poolish at room temperature is the better way to go. He and you rarely mention the temperature of the water to use which I think is an important piece of the process. I personally like higher hydration doughs like 70% or even higher for a focaccia style. Not sure if it was your oven temperature or time in then oven, or as you hinted, the pizza was out for a while before slicking and eating but I missed hearing a " Wow! Soft and Crunchy" with enthusiasm! Thanks for the video. Good to see Vito commented.
Sorry man, Vitos is way superior. The double cold fermentation for 48hrs is so worth the time and effort. My dough tastes great and always is airy puffy and crunchy. 70% may be a little hard to work with but it just takes practice. But man are the results worth it. I used to make pizzas using your method but its like taking a few steps backward once I found his double fermentation recipe. Cheers!
I achieved the best results last night using the double cold ferment but I am going to try this out next.. curious how much more "yeasty" flavor I will get doing warm ferm
This is my second time baking the pizza recipe you gave, it has been great👍 it’s nice to work with a dough that’s not overly hydrated. Making that dough is enjoyable…. Thank you a thousand times again😁 God bless.. to you and yours
Cool ideas man, I thought the 5g of honey and yeast was overkill as well. Glad to see I wasn't alone, I will give this recipe a try! I prefer the higher hydration, shaping is not a problem for me at those higher %'s but I really like the idea of poolish out at room temp for a day.
The pizzas made from this recipe were divine! Soft and chewy inside with some bite on the outside. So good! I used King Arthur 00 flour, active dry yeast, and no sugar/honey. For the longer knead I did slap and fold to get some air into the dough and make it less sticky. I will be trying this recipe again soon!
Fantastic..Thank you so much! As good as at is I can’t quite pass the window pane test like you on the second knead. I’d love to get any ideas what I’m doing that could be better.
I’m making this right now! I find letting it sit out at room temp is easier for me to keep track of time and proofing. As opposed to taking it in and out of the refrigerator
I tried both recipes several times now. Patio is right about doing the first poolish fermentation at RT. Still, have to stick with Vito's recipe. 70% hydration for life.
Thanks for sharing! From the looks of your pizza, your crust is way less crunchy and more chewy than Vito's. From my own experience and a bunch of additional genuine Neapolitan recipes, the choice here is btw working with preferment poolish/ biga (longer partially in fridge) or with direct mixes (typically 24h outside). In many of these real joints they simply use yesterday's leftovers to kickstart the next round, without little of nothing else.
Vito uses the fridge for the Poolish because its a standarized enviroment for everyone (every country , every weather etc). Leaving the Poolish or any yeasty dough to ferment naturally requires a controlled enviroment like 18-20 C all the time. Thats why Vito uses lots of yeast and puts it in the fridge.
If room temp fermentation is a concern why bother with a poolish at all? If you’re going to be cold fermenting why not just do a direct dough and ferment longer at cold temp? The biggest benefit of a poolish is a bunch of tasty yeasty esters from a warm fermentation. You don’t get those during a cold ferment, in my opinion.
@@PatioPizza Because of texture probably. Direct dough is more elastic and doughy. Poolish dough and prefermented doughs in general is like making a French Baguette, crunchy crump and airy .
@@lioubinos99yeah, I just don’t think you’ll really get those benefits either without a super active warmer pre-ferment. However, sounds like a great idea for a future comparison video! Cheers
By looking at the final result i dont see your pizza any better nor neraly close to Vitos final pizza result, im not saying it doesnt taste good, but doesnt look as airy as crunchy as Vitos.... looks more like a dense chewy dough to me. Def not better then Vitos.
@@PatioPizza because if you cold ferment you get a different flavor and different texture profile. As you can see in your video, the crust and pizza are totally different than with cold fermentation. It's a personal preference i would say, neither is better than the other. i always cold ferment because i think it gives more flavor and a better texture (70% h). and to be frank i think it is really disrespectful to Vito. We're all pizza lovers and to me your quote "i can already tell this has more flavor than the original recipe" discredited the entire video for me. You legit used a man's recipe, made some minor changes and than disrespects him and calling it better afterwards. Low blow from my perspective.
Alright tried this recipe and method out, as well as a basic dough from ooni...this recipe is the best dough I've tasted, far better then my favorite pizza spot I would get wood fired from! Big props and many thanks to you for this video as well as your other video showing how to stretch it!
@@TacoTuesday4because sometimes when you have issues with your hand it's better to use the mixer and not all of us have space in our freezer to be stockpiling food items especially if your single a little goes a long way
Question for the inter web. I’ve done Vito’s fridge polish with honey and love it. I live outside Denver where altitude can mess with rising times. I’m thinking about trying no honey, less yeast in the basement where it’s usually cooler than room temp. Anyone else bake above 5000 ft (1500+ m)?
Just writing after shaping a dough ball from the recipe, you gave me. That recipe is good so far, dough has a nice feel and it came together great. Thank you again. God bless and take care.👍
Most pizza cooks vary the yeast/temp/etc. depending on how tasty vs time to eat they want. It's 3:30pm now. If my wife wanted me to make good pizza for her at 8pm I would use 5-6g of yeast and warmed flour and water. If she wanted great pizza she'd know it was going to take 2-3.5 days till the pizza was going to be perfect with cooler temps and .2g of yeast. Then again when my wife wants great pizza the same day I just make her a cracker crust pizza and it's ready in 7 hours. Make the dough at noon and pizza goes into the oven at 7+pm and ready in 12 min. I make enough dough for 10-12" diameter crusts and parbake 9 of them for 3-4min and freeze them so it takes only the time to heat the oven and bake the pizza. My home oven takes 45 min to heat and my Ooni takes 30 min. Ooni in the spring, summer, and fall time when I don't want the heat in my kitchen. The winter time in Jan/Feb I use the indoor oven because it gets down to 40F.
Do you add more yeast in the final dough before bulk fermentation? The dough ball that you made into a Pizza looked a little bit stiff not double volume increase, after pouring in the poolish I like to add a 1% of yeast to help volume increase, the poolish provides the elasticity and flavor, and a little bit more of yeast (1%) helps with volume growth, just my observation good that you want to continue improving things, great video!
I've been using Ken Forkish's 12 -24 Pizza Dough recipe for a while, but had decided to try Vito's way a few weeks ago. That dough was better, but I wanted to try your version tonight because your comments made sense about yeast proportion, hydration, refrigeration, etc. I'm in the SF Bay Area, so ambient temps are reasonable and I felt fermenting the poolish outside the fridge would be more effective. I did the recipe exactly (almost) as you had it. Due to reasons the poolish was in the fridge for about 20 hours (not 8 - 12) and dough balls only had a few hours in the fridge between portioning and being pulled out to warm up prior to stretching. All that said, dough turned out fantastic, my best yet. Very flavorful, easy to stretch, with crispy exterior and a chewy, fragrant interior - this is what I've been working towards for a few years now and with this one tonight I'm feeling like I'm very close. I didn't get quite as much rise in the outer crust as you did, but now I've got a new goal. Thanks again, keep it up!
I did that next level recipe to and pizza came out fine, i think we all learned a lot from Vito, but i find it very hard to stretch the dough when following the recipe from Vito, the high amount of yeast make so much air in the dough so it take so much time for me to stretch it, and another thing is if you make lots of pizza's the point of fermentation is hard to keep to the end, the window is to small before dough collapse, using less yeast like you do here makes it a lot easier as less air and window is way bigger, nice video.
His original recipe just doesn't allow enough time for the dough to relax after you ball it (in my opinion). Makes for a super hard to stretch dough. Thanks so much for checking out the video!
That’s the exact problem I had with that particular recipe. Difficult to stretch. I don’t fully understand the need to bulk ferment-what’s the downside of cold fermenting balled dough from the start?
Mix manitoba flour with farina and you will have easier job,plus you need atleast 70 percent hydra dough if cooked in normal oven that are up to 250 celsius, even if it no poolish douhh it will be great to eat, but leave it atleast 18 hour dough and few more like balls
@@PatioPizza The key for Vito's recipe is to let the balls proof for 4-5 hrs.He only does for 1-2 hrs. They are way easier to stretch if you wait a few more hrs. 😊
I've been using Vito's poolish recipe for 18 months and I haven't had too many issues with stretching or working with my dough, other than it being so sticky but that's a factor of my learning curve. It takes a lot of skill to work with high hydration doughs. I do let my balls sit and rest in my dough boxes for a few hours at room temp before using but they are always supple and easy to work with. I do add a little more flour to decrease the hydration level a bit. As a learning aid, it helps to work with a little less hydration. I think they taste even better if they go another day in the fridge, for example if I have leftover balls and I want to make pizza again the next night. I bake a lot of sourdough and I think a key is to use high quality flour and use a blend of Manitoba (which is simply high quality Canadian bread flour) and all purpose. King Arthur bread flour and their all purpose are both excellent and have higher protein contents than cheap grocery store flours. I use Dakota Maid, which is another high quality miller. Their grains are from ND and their protein contents are much higher than the cheap stuff. My point is that if you can dial back on the hydration a little bit, use high quality flours, and let your dough balls rest for at least a few hours, the results are amazing with Vito's recipes. As a hobbyist pizza/bread/pastry/cake baker, I've learned that there are a million variables that can influence the outcome. It's never the recipe. It's us and the baking environment. When did you open your bag of flour? How much humidity has the flour absorbed in the bag? What is the temp of your kitchen? What is the humidity level of your kitchen? Then there are the million tiny influences that are introduced by my own hands and techniques vs you working with the same ingredients side by side with me in my own kitchen. We will have slightly different outcomes even though we are in the same kitchen using the same recipe and same ingredients. So now take two people in different states, using different ingredients, in different environments, and you can see how hard it is to duplicate the outcomes. Anyway, this is a fun take on the original recipe and I'm looking forward to trying it. This is definitely a lifelong hobby. Cheers!👍🔥🍕
First try at pizza was with the King Arthur Recipe. This was the second recipe we tried and were really impressed. Everyone loved it. Thank you so much for putting this together.
I love the room temp fermentation method for the Poolish! If the second fermentation was done at room temp as well, would that be a negative result? I just found your channel, I’m real excited to explore the rest of your vids. thank you for your channel!
Hello Jessie, sure appreciate your educational, short, concise videos. This improved Vito (love that guy!) pizza did you cook in a home oven or pizza oven?? Thanks for your great videos.
Due to less yeast and no honey thus less air in dough. Also less hydration and non Neapolitan stretching technique. This is why his crust is flat and chewy rather than airy, soft and crunchy.
I tried both! Nice try but i will stick with Vitos. Especially the recipe for one pizza ball dough is extremely successful and easy. I find the honey inside poolish very helpful and i wouldnt omit it. Half gram of yeast made your recipe very very flat and in general id say it didnt work out for me!
Thanks for the “thanks”! Yes, you might just want a little more than half the yeast to jump start things. The “pizza app” is awesome for converting recipe sizes based on percentages too. Might be worth checking out. Thanks again!
Poolish turned out great. However if I only add 700g of flour after I melt the Polish it's a wet jiggly mess not resembling a ball at all. I have to add an additional 500 g of flour to even get it to resemble a dough ball. The original vito recipe calls for 300/300 for poolish. Then 700g water and 1250 g of flour for the dough. I'm going to assume when you say additional 700 you've already added some flour in? When I look at the video, the part where you're adding the flour into the dough, it already looks like there was four in the bowl?
Just found your channel love how you explain the reasons behind things you do lot of other channels dont do that. I live in Australia and summers a really hot, what is your room temperature you ferment your poolish at so I can try and emulate. Thank you
Thank you for the video. I find Vito’s videos full of inconsistencies. I always thought 5 gr of yeast to be excessive. Your results speak for themselves and can’t wait to try it.
Same here. There will be like 10 different videos on making poolish or biga and they all have me jumping around from video to video to find out the rest of the recipe
Vito gets excited but I have been following his recipes with great success and never had any issue with inconsistency or recipes. If you have a specific question on one of his videos just send him a note and he will respond. Or leave a question in the comments and someone will clear it up for you. Anyhow, hope you guys have awesome success with your pizzas!!
Wow that's really interesting I do the exact same thing. 70% was just too moist and 65% seemed to work alot better. I do the exact same thing with the poolish but i let my dough bulk ferment for 6-10 hours at room temp and then ball it up for the cold ferment for 1-2 days
awesome video. Newbie question: how do you scale this recipe up, say I wanted to double it, would you just double all the amounts and carry on? or is there something else to consider when using larger quantities?
Love the video. Definitely want to give it a try. What is the flour you use? I know it says high protein but id like to replicate as close as possible. Thanks!!!
Looks great, I am gonna try this out, but the crust does look way less soft and puffy then Vito's. I wonder if the dough flavour is better though, gonna check and comment back with my personal opinion.
Your dough is lower and not to much air bubble as in Vito’s recipe. It’s not a atomphysics: Yeast and honey. I dont believe this recipe is better, maybe for you, but different. I stay at Vito recipe.
Agreed with you on some points. Vito’s Recipe is too hydrated, i reduce it to 62-65%. Other than than I don’t change anything other than increasing the refrigeration time on the bulk dough from 24 to 48 hours as I find his recipe is too flat after 1 day in fridge. Either that or ferment for 24 hours in fridge and additional half day on bench.
I notice in this modified version you don't add yeast in the dough portion, just the poolish, is this better than your earlier poolish version? Thank you for improving this pizza dough. :) :)
When did you add the 10 grams of oil? That part was left out. Can it be added when your mixing the poolish and the flour, or do you add after, and knead the oil into the dough after it's first autolyzation?
Very interesting video! There is something though that it is not clear, how to scale the ingredients according to the number of pizzas I want to make? * Should the poolish total weight be below a certain % of the total dough weight?
@@PatioPizza but does the amount of yeast change if I do 10 balls? If I'm 10 balls with 30% flour in poolish, that would be 466 g flour and 466 g water in poolish, but would the amount of yeast in the poolish stay at 0.5 g ADY or does it increase?
Hi Jesse, Thanks for the video, I had a bit of trouble with my first attempt. I kept everything as per your recipe, only changing using a KitchenAid stand mixer with a dough hook. Everything looked fine till I came to ball and bulk ferment. It was just waaaay too sticky to use my hands without them being covered in dough. Only thing I can think is that the table top you kneed on is absorbing a bit of moisture and the stainless mixing bowl isn't. Just wondering if you know if I can reduce the water a bit to make it the correct consistency and still keep the stand mixer? Interested to hear your thoughts. Cheers
I also use a KitchenAid stand mixer and just added 1T extra flour, 1/2T at a time while it's doing its thing with the dough hook. You can also try adding the water more slowly (like, REALLY slowly), but I'm not a fan of that option considering how long it takes. Happy pizza-ing!
Is it common for the poolish to double in size quickly and then go back to normal size 13 hrs later? Should I place in a container that does not allow light to go thru? How do you know when the fermentation is done between the 18-24 hr timeline?
you have to admit, Vito goes into more detail such as which side to have the strong gluten facing, how to fold it etc etc. I will try yours however but knowing a few littile things vito describes will be in my head as I do it. cheers m8
Very interesting, thank you for this. At the home pizza scale, is there an advantage to using a poolish as opposed to just making a direct dough? Commercially, making a poolish could save a lot of space, but that is not important for a couple of pizzas at home.
Also space saving. I don’t have a lot of fridge space for dough, so the poolish is very helpful for that. And it’s just an easy way to add some extra flavor. Poolish is a lot easy to manage then a multi stage direct Dough, in my opinion.
I do a lot of dough, for larger batches in my food trailer. You don’t detail that here, so just to have a formula for this recipe- if making a 10-12” pie, what is the yield for this recipe? Thanks
For 10 to 12 inch pizzas you can make about 8 of them before you’re out if you like them thinner you can get like 10 maybe but I just triple the recipe and put them on steel pans
I need cups and tablespoons. I tried to do this and now everything is off like I think I made the Moochie thing or whatever it’s called correctly but then after I added flour and salt and I let it sit overnight it’s been way more than 12 hours and it inflated and now it’s like hard on the top I don’t even know if I should try using it.
When I mixed the poolish into the flour and water all I got was a sticky mess that wouldn’t work into a ball. I left it to rest, I added a bit of flour, I tried to kneed the dough more but nothing worked! Ended up binning the lot. Where did I go wrong?
So I'm going to use this recipe tomorrow I just got the king Arthur's pizza dough however I will say there is one difference in this recipe and Vito's recipe his crust has way more rise and bubblyness to it whereas this one doesn't really have a nice border around the crust
hello, just a 2 quick questions, what type of flour do you use? Can I use 00 flour or do you suggest something else. One more question, nobody has fresh yeast so it has to be the dry type. Regular active or the quick one (I have both). thank you, Larry
Will try this, been using the Vito recipe and was wondering why so much yeast. I want to do 10 dough balls, do i use the same poolish and just add more flour and water to the second part?
I made a pizza recipe love it love it thank you so much. I’ve tried others. This is the best. One. My other pizza I made from other people other person got stuck the way you did it with the paper. Awesome. Gonna make another one tonight and leftover dough God bless thank you so much for this.❤😊
Could i skip the second fermentation in the fridge, and after kneading the dough for the first time, let it rest at room temperature for 6 hours, then make the balls, let the balls at room temperature again for 2 hours, then cook?
I don't know if you care after 3 weeks but I had the same question. Scrolled through the comments and they replied to someone else saying they used Instant Dry Yeast
If I want to freeze some of the balls. Would you recommend doing that after making the balls after the bulk resting or 24 hours after keeping those balls in the fridge first?
I have made this recipe 3 times , and I have only had it come out once. I followed it exactly to the gram , the only thing I can figure out is not letting the dough balls sit long enough. I usually let them settle for 8ish hours in the fridge, they really must need to rest longer (you quote 12-24). Could you just let the balls rest at room temp for a shorter time ? Not sure, I'm going to get fresh yeast and start the poolish a day earlier next time.
Hey man, just curious what your camera setup is? I need to improve my shots a little. Currently just using my phone with an external mic. Light setup too? Thanks dude. Great content as always
Thanks for checking it out! This is what I do most of the time for a neopolitan-ish pizza ua-cam.com/video/qegfmiDeOno/v-deo.html but I’m always tweaking and experimenting
While I do use Vito's recipe I also routinely deviate "from the script". Sometimes just to try something different, other times due to time constraints. I like your recipe. Riddle me this... I routinely make 24 pizzas at a time. What would your poolish and dough recipe be for that many pies? I'll "buy you a coffee" if you reply. Thanks!
I’d do 400g of flour and 400g of water with 1.5 grams of yeast for poolish for 24 hours at room temp. Then 3600g of flour and 2100g of water for the main dough. 100g of salt and a few ounces of olive oil. Hope that’s helpful, no coffee needed. Thanks for watching.
It lacks yeast. I suppose so, since - despite according a lot of time for the dough to develop gluten liaisons - the dough isn’t rising as the balloon it should mimic. Hence, I would double the weight of regular dehydrated yeast in the poolish (1g). After fermentation, I’d add less than a gram of instant yeast into the mix, along with the 700 grams of flour needed to transform the poolish into pizza dough. Remarkably, I find that his take on fermentation is A-1, all along the video. Within the first 24 hours, you won’t want to decrease the fermenting process. Especially if its done in a fresh and shadowy environment (like a basement) while summer is raging out there.
The answer to your question, regarding why he puts the poolish into the fridge and not leave at room temp is because exactly what you said leaving the poolish at temp does. You said it creates more of a sourdough flavor. Vito DOES NOT LIKE SOURDOUGH.
ITS NOT CROUNCHY OR ALIVE I don’t see any difference. In or out of ref is no big deal You just took out honey and lessened yeast. But the honey and yeast works for me. My dough is happy. This recipe is like Jim Lahey recipe which I just did yesterday. 22 hrs room temp The crust was not interesting enough to crounch on. It’s not airy and light
Good video! I'm also glad you pointed out that the 70% hydration isn't necessary. That's for gourmet pizza. Classic pizzas are only 50-65% (Neapolitan is only 62% at max.) It seems the gourmet hydration level has almost become a common fad for upcoming pizzaiolos.
How does the dough perform after freezing? Using a small amount of yeast could mean it’ll take another 12-24 hours for the yeast to puff up the dough again after thawing
What is the room temperature in your kitchen ? How would you adjust this recipe if the room temperature is 30-32 degrees with a humidity of 68-72% ? Thanks
you mention RT at the beginning but didnt state what this was. My RT is 17-18oC. Also why 12 -24hrs for final proof ? What difference would this make in terms of flavour and oven spring? Thanks 🙃
As for Poolish I do the same, less yeast and fermented at room temperature. The step where people make a big mistake is the salt. Salt is always added after flour, yeast and water have been mixed together. The salt should be the last ingredient.
I looked a bit into the salt thing and it turns out it doesn't really make a difference, salt takes awhile to actually kill the yeast, so I wouldn't worry too much
@@gobcityAgreed. If you watch Vito make his dough, he always adds the salt to the water so you can make sure it's fully dissolved. Then he slowly adds that water in small increments to the dough as it's mixing. He also says the quantity of salt can vary depending on how soon you need to use the dough and what the temperature is. Salt will slow down the fermentation process so he uses it to help regulate his dough when doing huge catering events. He explains it in a lot of his catering videos.👍
that was amazing
Thanks Vito! I’d love any insights you might have or if there is anything you think I got wrong?!?! Cheers
Props to Vito for responding! Def. a stand-up guy.
You're a class act maestro. I wish I could be as generous as you.
Vito is still the pizza champion! 🍕🏆
Love Vito
I am a big fan of Vito's and was interested to see what you had to say and show. I agree poolish at room temperature is the better way to go. He and you rarely mention the temperature of the water to use which I think is an important piece of the process. I personally like higher hydration doughs like 70% or even higher for a focaccia style. Not sure if it was your oven temperature or time in then oven, or as you hinted, the pizza was out for a while before slicking and eating but I missed hearing a " Wow! Soft and Crunchy" with enthusiasm! Thanks for the video. Good to see Vito commented.
Sorry man, Vitos is way superior. The double cold fermentation for 48hrs is so worth the time and effort. My dough tastes great and always is airy puffy and crunchy. 70% may be a little hard to work with but it just takes practice. But man are the results worth it. I used to make pizzas using your method but its like taking a few steps backward once I found his double fermentation recipe. Cheers!
Oh please! There wasn’t any steps backwards as you say by these adjustments. It’s actually a good critique and makes sense.
That you Vito, lol?
I achieved the best results last night using the double cold ferment but I am going to try this out next.. curious how much more "yeasty" flavor I will get doing warm ferm
Agreed 100% and I always use Vito's double fermentation method along with his poolish, a far better pizza in the end.
@@SmilesNFunhow did it go?
This is my second time baking the pizza recipe you gave, it has been great👍 it’s nice to work with a dough that’s not overly hydrated. Making that dough is enjoyable…. Thank you a thousand times again😁 God bless.. to you and yours
Cool ideas man, I thought the 5g of honey and yeast was overkill as well. Glad to see I wasn't alone, I will give this recipe a try! I prefer the higher hydration, shaping is not a problem for me at those higher %'s but I really like the idea of poolish out at room temp for a day.
The pizzas made from this recipe were divine! Soft and chewy inside with some bite on the outside. So good! I used King Arthur 00 flour, active dry yeast, and no sugar/honey. For the longer knead I did slap and fold to get some air into the dough and make it less sticky. I will be trying this recipe again soon!
Seems to have less “crunch” and is only soft and chewy, that’s not really proper Neapolitan style but yeah it’s a creative take on it
Fantastic..Thank you so much! As good as at is I can’t quite pass the window pane test like you on the second knead. I’d love to get any ideas what I’m doing that could be better.
I’m making this right now! I find letting it sit out at room temp is easier for me to keep track of time and proofing. As opposed to taking it in and out of the refrigerator
I tried both recipes several times now. Patio is right about doing the first poolish fermentation at RT. Still, have to stick with Vito's recipe. 70% hydration for life.
Thanks for sharing! From the looks of your pizza, your crust is way less crunchy and more chewy than Vito's. From my own experience and a bunch of additional genuine Neapolitan recipes, the choice here is btw working with preferment poolish/ biga (longer partially in fridge) or with direct mixes (typically 24h outside). In many of these real joints they simply use yesterday's leftovers to kickstart the next round, without little of nothing else.
Vito uses the fridge for the Poolish because its a standarized enviroment for everyone (every country , every weather etc). Leaving the Poolish or any yeasty dough to ferment naturally requires a controlled enviroment like 18-20 C all the time.
Thats why Vito uses lots of yeast and puts it in the fridge.
If room temp fermentation is a concern why bother with a poolish at all? If you’re going to be cold fermenting why not just do a direct dough and ferment longer at cold temp? The biggest benefit of a poolish is a bunch of tasty yeasty esters from a warm fermentation. You don’t get those during a cold ferment, in my opinion.
@@PatioPizza Because of texture probably.
Direct dough is more elastic and doughy.
Poolish dough and prefermented doughs in general is like making a French Baguette, crunchy crump and airy .
@@lioubinos99yeah, I just don’t think you’ll really get those benefits either without a super active warmer pre-ferment. However, sounds like a great idea for a future comparison video! Cheers
By looking at the final result i dont see your pizza any better nor neraly close to Vitos final pizza result, im not saying it doesnt taste good, but doesnt look as airy as crunchy as Vitos.... looks more like a dense chewy dough to me. Def not better then Vitos.
@@PatioPizza because if you cold ferment you get a different flavor and different texture profile. As you can see in your video, the crust and pizza are totally different than with cold fermentation. It's a personal preference i would say, neither is better than the other. i always cold ferment because i think it gives more flavor and a better texture (70% h).
and to be frank i think it is really disrespectful to Vito. We're all pizza lovers and to me your quote "i can already tell this has more flavor than the original recipe" discredited the entire video for me. You legit used a man's recipe, made some minor changes and than disrespects him and calling it better afterwards. Low blow from my perspective.
Alright tried this recipe and method out, as well as a basic dough from ooni...this recipe is the best dough I've tasted, far better then my favorite pizza spot I would get wood fired from! Big props and many thanks to you for this video as well as your other video showing how to stretch it!
Now I just need you to do another video for a single serve pizza and do it with the stand mixer
Why? This stuff freezes really well and you can just put it in the fridge the day before using it to thaw out.
@@TacoTuesday4because sometimes when you have issues with your hand it's better to use the mixer and not all of us have space in our freezer to be stockpiling food items especially if your single a little goes a long way
Question for the inter web. I’ve done Vito’s fridge polish with honey and love it. I live outside Denver where altitude can mess with rising times. I’m thinking about trying no honey, less yeast in the basement where it’s usually cooler than room temp. Anyone else bake above 5000 ft (1500+ m)?
Just writing after shaping a dough ball from the recipe, you gave me. That recipe is good so far, dough has a nice feel and it came together great. Thank you again. God bless and take care.👍
Thanks! Let me know how it turns out!
This was perfect for me the 65% hydration was less sticky and so much easier to handle. Thanks for this video
When it's 80%, it's almost self-mixed, no effort.
Most pizza cooks vary the yeast/temp/etc. depending on how tasty vs time to eat they want. It's 3:30pm now. If my wife wanted me to make good pizza for her at 8pm I would use 5-6g of yeast and warmed flour and water. If she wanted great pizza she'd know it was going to take 2-3.5 days till the pizza was going to be perfect with cooler temps and .2g of yeast. Then again when my wife wants great pizza the same day I just make her a cracker crust pizza and it's ready in 7 hours. Make the dough at noon and pizza goes into the oven at 7+pm and ready in 12 min. I make enough dough for 10-12" diameter crusts and parbake 9 of them for 3-4min and freeze them so it takes only the time to heat the oven and bake the pizza. My home oven takes 45 min to heat and my Ooni takes 30 min. Ooni in the spring, summer, and fall time when I don't want the heat in my kitchen. The winter time in Jan/Feb I use the indoor oven because it gets down to 40F.
You nailed it! Temp makes such a difference.
Do you add more yeast in the final dough before bulk fermentation?
The dough ball that you made into a Pizza looked a little bit stiff not double volume increase,
after pouring in the poolish I like to add a 1% of yeast to help volume increase,
the poolish provides the elasticity and flavor, and a little bit more of yeast (1%) helps with volume growth, just my observation
good that you want to continue improving things, great video!
I've been using Ken Forkish's 12 -24 Pizza Dough recipe for a while, but had decided to try Vito's way a few weeks ago. That dough was better, but I wanted to try your version tonight because your comments made sense about yeast proportion, hydration, refrigeration, etc. I'm in the SF Bay Area, so ambient temps are reasonable and I felt fermenting the poolish outside the fridge would be more effective. I did the recipe exactly (almost) as you had it. Due to reasons the poolish was in the fridge for about 20 hours (not 8 - 12) and dough balls only had a few hours in the fridge between portioning and being pulled out to warm up prior to stretching. All that said, dough turned out fantastic, my best yet. Very flavorful, easy to stretch, with crispy exterior and a chewy, fragrant interior - this is what I've been working towards for a few years now and with this one tonight I'm feeling like I'm very close. I didn't get quite as much rise in the outer crust as you did, but now I've got a new goal. Thanks again, keep it up!
That’s awesome, thanks! I actually saw Ken do a keynote once. Good guy, super knowledgeable
I did that next level recipe to and pizza came out fine, i think we all learned a lot from Vito, but i find it very hard to stretch the dough when following the recipe from Vito, the high amount of yeast make so much air in the dough so it take so much time for me to stretch it, and another thing is if you make lots of pizza's the point of fermentation is hard to keep to the end, the window is to small before dough collapse, using less yeast like you do here makes it a lot easier as less air and window is way bigger, nice video.
His original recipe just doesn't allow enough time for the dough to relax after you ball it (in my opinion). Makes for a super hard to stretch dough. Thanks so much for checking out the video!
That’s the exact problem I had with that particular recipe. Difficult to stretch. I don’t fully understand the need to bulk ferment-what’s the downside of cold fermenting balled dough from the start?
Mix manitoba flour with farina and you will have easier job,plus you need atleast 70 percent hydra dough if cooked in normal oven that are up to 250 celsius, even if it no poolish douhh it will be great to eat, but leave it atleast 18 hour dough and few more like balls
@@PatioPizza The key for Vito's recipe is to let the balls proof for 4-5 hrs.He only does for 1-2 hrs. They are way easier to stretch if you wait a few more hrs. 😊
I've been using Vito's poolish recipe for 18 months and I haven't had too many issues with stretching or working with my dough, other than it being so sticky but that's a factor of my learning curve. It takes a lot of skill to work with high hydration doughs. I do let my balls sit and rest in my dough boxes for a few hours at room temp before using but they are always supple and easy to work with. I do add a little more flour to decrease the hydration level a bit. As a learning aid, it helps to work with a little less hydration. I think they taste even better if they go another day in the fridge, for example if I have leftover balls and I want to make pizza again the next night.
I bake a lot of sourdough and I think a key is to use high quality flour and use a blend of Manitoba (which is simply high quality Canadian bread flour) and all purpose. King Arthur bread flour and their all purpose are both excellent and have higher protein contents than cheap grocery store flours. I use Dakota Maid, which is another high quality miller. Their grains are from ND and their protein contents are much higher than the cheap stuff. My point is that if you can dial back on the hydration a little bit, use high quality flours, and let your dough balls rest for at least a few hours, the results are amazing with Vito's recipes.
As a hobbyist pizza/bread/pastry/cake baker, I've learned that there are a million variables that can influence the outcome. It's never the recipe. It's us and the baking environment. When did you open your bag of flour? How much humidity has the flour absorbed in the bag? What is the temp of your kitchen? What is the humidity level of your kitchen? Then there are the million tiny influences that are introduced by my own hands and techniques vs you working with the same ingredients side by side with me in my own kitchen. We will have slightly different outcomes even though we are in the same kitchen using the same recipe and same ingredients. So now take two people in different states, using different ingredients, in different environments, and you can see how hard it is to duplicate the outcomes.
Anyway, this is a fun take on the original recipe and I'm looking forward to trying it. This is definitely a lifelong hobby. Cheers!👍🔥🍕
First try at pizza was with the King Arthur Recipe. This was the second recipe we tried and were really impressed. Everyone loved it. Thank you so much for putting this together.
Thank you!
I love the room temp fermentation method for the Poolish! If the second fermentation was done at room temp as well, would that be a negative result?
I just found your channel, I’m real excited to explore the rest of your vids. thank you for your channel!
I wonder if the bulk ferment is even necessary or if you could just ball and cold ferment that way for the duration. Had you experimented with that?
I'm also wondering. Any results after 11 months?
Hello Jessie, sure appreciate your educational, short, concise videos. This improved Vito (love that guy!) pizza did you cook in a home oven or pizza oven?? Thanks for your great videos.
Pretty sure this was in a pizza oven, should work fine in a home oven too. Checkout my latest video for home oven tips. Thanks for watching!
The crust seems not as high as Vito's is that due to less hydration or?
Due to less yeast and no honey thus less air in dough. Also less hydration and non Neapolitan stretching technique. This is why his crust is flat and chewy rather than airy, soft and crunchy.
I tried both! Nice try but i will stick with Vitos. Especially the recipe for one pizza ball dough is extremely successful and easy. I find the honey inside poolish very helpful and i wouldnt omit it. Half gram of yeast made your recipe very very flat and in general id say it didnt work out for me!
Thanks, could i cut all the portions in half if I'm only making say 1 or 2 pizza's?😊
Thanks for the “thanks”! Yes, you might just want a little more than half the yeast to jump start things. The “pizza app” is awesome for converting recipe sizes based on percentages too. Might be worth checking out. Thanks again!
Poolish turned out great. However if I only add 700g of flour after I melt the Polish it's a wet jiggly mess not resembling a ball at all. I have to add an additional 500 g of flour to even get it to resemble a dough ball. The original vito recipe calls for 300/300 for poolish. Then 700g water and 1250 g of flour for the dough. I'm going to assume when you say additional 700 you've already added some flour in? When I look at the video, the part where you're adding the flour into the dough, it already looks like there was four in the bowl?
Try a stand mixer if you have one. You may not be mixing it enough. The more you mix and kneed the more gluten development and less sticky it will be
Just found your channel love how you explain the reasons behind things you do lot of other channels dont do that.
I live in Australia and summers a really hot, what is your room temperature you ferment your poolish at so I can try and emulate. Thank you
Thank you for the video.
I find Vito’s videos full of inconsistencies. I always thought 5 gr of yeast to be excessive.
Your results speak for themselves and can’t wait to try it.
Same here. There will be like 10 different videos on making poolish or biga and they all have me jumping around from video to video to find out the rest of the recipe
Vito gets excited but I have been following his recipes with great success and never had any issue with inconsistency or recipes. If you have a specific question on one of his videos just send him a note and he will respond. Or leave a question in the comments and someone will clear it up for you. Anyhow, hope you guys have awesome success with your pizzas!!
Yes, I to wish there was a calculator out there when making a poolish style Pizza for smaller portions.
Bravo :) :) :)
Wow that's really interesting I do the exact same thing. 70% was just too moist and 65% seemed to work alot better. I do the exact same thing with the poolish but i let my dough bulk ferment for 6-10 hours at room temp and then ball it up for the cold ferment for 1-2 days
awesome video. Newbie question: how do you scale this recipe up, say I wanted to double it, would you just double all the amounts and carry on? or is there something else to consider when using larger quantities?
Try en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baker_percentage#:~:text=Baker's%20percentage%20expresses%20a%20ratio,and%2050%25%20for%20the%20water.
Having omitted the olive oil, this was a very wet dough to work with. But it does taste great.
Love the video. Definitely want to give it a try. What is the flour you use? I know it says high protein but id like to replicate as close as possible. Thanks!!!
Looks great, I am gonna try this out, but the crust does look way less soft and puffy then Vito's. I wonder if the dough flavour is better though, gonna check and comment back with my personal opinion.
thats just down to stretching
did you use the ball cold?not let it get back to toom temp?
Thanks for the insight. What does the olive oil in the dough offer?
Slightly softer dough and better browning
Your dough is lower and not to much air bubble as in Vito’s recipe. It’s not a atomphysics: Yeast and honey. I dont believe this recipe is better, maybe for you, but different. I stay at Vito recipe.
I just tried this recipe and my dough was so sticky/wet after mixing the poolish with the water and dough. Any thoughts as to why?
Is it fresh or active dried yeast you use in the poolish??
Would you still add the olive oil if you're baking in an outdoor, high-temp pizza oven?
I wouldn’t
Agreed with you on some points. Vito’s Recipe is too hydrated, i reduce it to 62-65%. Other than than I don’t change anything other than increasing the refrigeration time on the bulk dough from 24 to 48 hours as I find his recipe is too flat after 1 day in fridge. Either that or ferment for 24 hours in fridge and additional half day on bench.
Здравствуйте,😊 вы не поделитесь пропорциями гидрации 62-65%?
Thanks! So far, this has been the best recipe I've tried. Very tasty, too.
If nothing else, thank you for doing a slomo explanation of the ball making technique! I’ll try this recipe next : )
I notice in this modified version you don't add yeast in the dough portion, just the poolish, is this better than your earlier poolish version?
Thank you for improving this pizza dough. :) :)
Great video. I already had found 65% hydration better than 70% . Thank you and Vito great work
I prefer to use cornmeal for dusting the dough ball. It doesnt remain sticky and easily removed from the pan after baking.
Recipe looks good. What parameters do you change to modify the chew to crunchy factor?
When did you add the 10 grams of oil? That part was left out. Can it be added when your mixing the poolish and the flour, or do you add after, and knead the oil into the dough after it's first autolyzation?
Any insight into this? Wondering the same thing. I took it as when he kneads the dough but that sounds like a mess lol
@TacoTuesday4 Mix it in the bowl til it's combined, then Mix in the oil and take it out to knead last 🙂
Very interesting video! There is something though that it is not clear, how to scale the ingredients according to the number of pizzas I want to make?
* Should the poolish total weight be below a certain % of the total dough weight?
I do 30% of total flour weight in the poolish
@@PatioPizza but does the amount of yeast change if I do 10 balls? If I'm 10 balls with 30% flour in poolish, that would be 466 g flour and 466 g water in poolish, but would the amount of yeast in the poolish stay at 0.5 g ADY or does it increase?
Love this recipe!. Been making a very similar recipe.
Hi Jesse,
Thanks for the video, I had a bit of trouble with my first attempt.
I kept everything as per your recipe, only changing using a KitchenAid stand mixer with a dough hook. Everything looked fine till I came to ball and bulk ferment. It was just waaaay too sticky to use my hands without them being covered in dough.
Only thing I can think is that the table top you kneed on is absorbing a bit of moisture and the stainless mixing bowl isn't.
Just wondering if you know if I can reduce the water a bit to make it the correct consistency and still keep the stand mixer?
Interested to hear your thoughts.
Cheers
Please let me know as well. I want to use my stand mixer too
I also use a KitchenAid stand mixer and just added 1T extra flour, 1/2T at a time while it's doing its thing with the dough hook. You can also try adding the water more slowly (like, REALLY slowly), but I'm not a fan of that option considering how long it takes. Happy pizza-ing!
What do you consider a good room temp for room temp fermentation method?
68 degrees Fahrenheit
Got my revised poolish made, how many pizzas will this make? Having some friends over.
I think this recipe is 3… but I would have to go back and watch to remember, might be 6
I got 4 @350g. And 1 at 260g; 18" and 12" pizzas respectively.
Is it common for the poolish to double in size quickly and then go back to normal size 13 hrs later? Should I place in a container that does not allow light to go thru? How do you know when the fermentation is done between the 18-24 hr timeline?
My poolish did the same thing. I was coming back to ask this very question. How did yours turn out?
vito is the grand master 😉
you have to admit, Vito goes into more detail such as which side to have the strong gluten facing, how to fold it etc etc. I will try yours however but knowing a few littile things vito describes will be in my head as I do it. cheers m8
Would the same amount of yeast (0.5g) apply if you are using active dry yeast?
Is there a version of this recipe that I can used after the 24 hour Poolish fermantation?
Very interesting, thank you for this.
At the home pizza scale, is there an advantage to using a poolish as opposed to just making a direct dough?
Commercially, making a poolish could save a lot of space, but that is not important for a couple of pizzas at home.
Also space saving. I don’t have a lot of fridge space for dough, so the poolish is very helpful for that. And it’s just an easy way to add some extra flavor. Poolish is a lot easy to manage then a multi stage direct Dough, in my opinion.
I do a lot of dough, for larger batches in my food trailer. You don’t detail that here, so just to have a formula for this recipe- if making a 10-12” pie, what is the yield for this recipe?
Thanks
For 10 to 12 inch pizzas you can make about 8 of them before you’re out if you like them thinner you can get like 10 maybe but I just triple the recipe and put them on steel pans
I need cups and tablespoons. I tried to do this and now everything is off like I think I made the Moochie thing or whatever it’s called correctly but then after I added flour and salt and I let it sit overnight it’s been way more than 12 hours and it inflated and now it’s like hard on the top I don’t even know if I should try using it.
Love the video :). Can we get a similar result with a cast iron pan?
Thanks for checking it out! I actually haven’t done much pizza in cast iron, but I’d love to know how it turns out if You give it a try!
When I mixed the poolish into the flour and water all I got was a sticky mess that wouldn’t work into a ball. I left it to rest, I added a bit of flour, I tried to kneed the dough more but nothing worked! Ended up binning the lot. Where did I go wrong?
Which recipe do you prefer? This one or your video “Better pizza using polish dough? Do they essentially provide the same end result?
So I'm going to use this recipe tomorrow I just got the king Arthur's pizza dough however I will say there is one difference in this recipe and Vito's recipe his crust has way more rise and bubblyness to it whereas this one doesn't really have a nice border around the crust
hello, just a 2 quick questions, what type of flour do you use? Can I use 00 flour or do you suggest something else. One more question, nobody has fresh yeast so it has to be the dry type. Regular active or the quick one (I have both).
thank you,
Larry
Will try this, been using the Vito recipe and was wondering why so much yeast. I want to do 10 dough balls, do i use the same poolish and just add more flour and water to the second part?
I made a pizza recipe love it love it thank you so much. I’ve tried others. This is the best. One. My other pizza I made from other people other person got stuck the way you did it with the paper. Awesome. Gonna make another one tonight and leftover dough God bless thank you so much for this.❤😊
Could i skip the second fermentation in the fridge, and after kneading the dough for the first time, let it rest at room temperature for 6 hours, then make the balls, let the balls at room temperature again for 2 hours, then cook?
How many pizzas can you make from this recipe? Thanks
Are you using instant, active dry, or other yeast?
I don't know if you care after 3 weeks but I had the same question. Scrolled through the comments and they replied to someone else saying they used Instant Dry Yeast
@@PapaHaynes Thanks
Would this work in a crappy home oven?
Yep. Max temp with a stone or steal. Preheat for an hour. Broil the last minute
@@PatioPizzaawesome, thanks!
If I want to freeze some of the balls. Would you recommend doing that after making the balls after the bulk resting or 24 hours after keeping those balls in the fridge first?
I like to freeze after the balled rest period. I do have a full video on freezing dough somewhere on this channel. Thanks for watching!
I have made this recipe 3 times , and I have only had it come out once. I followed it exactly to the gram , the only thing I can figure out is not letting the dough balls sit long enough. I usually let them settle for 8ish hours in the fridge, they really must need to rest longer (you quote 12-24).
Could you just let the balls rest at room temp for a shorter time ? Not sure, I'm going to get fresh yeast and start the poolish a day earlier next time.
Why is my dough always wet and sticky after I mix it without the poolish? Even after I let it rest.
Hey man, just curious what your camera setup is? I need to improve my shots a little. Currently just using my phone with an external mic. Light setup too? Thanks dude. Great content as always
Checking out your channel too!!
Thanks for checking it out! A shoot with a Sony A7iv and a sigma lens. I’m using a DJI lav mic. Couple of neewer lights. It’s overkill…
@@PatioPizza appreciate it. Keep it up.
what type of yeast to use? dry or fresh?
Good video! Question: do you like this dough better than Tony G’s Neapolitan?
Thanks for checking it out! This is what I do most of the time for a neopolitan-ish pizza ua-cam.com/video/qegfmiDeOno/v-deo.html but I’m always tweaking and experimenting
How much balls does this make for a 10-12inch pizza
Can you use fresh yeast?
Back in the 80s I worked at a pizza place named “patio pizza”
how many pizzas do you get with this amount of ingredients?
Did you try to use Caputo yeast for your recipes? It's much stronger than any other yeast and stable results without pre-ferment.
While I do use Vito's recipe I also routinely deviate "from the script". Sometimes just to try something different, other times due to time constraints. I like your recipe. Riddle me this... I routinely make 24 pizzas at a time. What would your poolish and dough recipe be for that many pies? I'll "buy you a coffee" if you reply. Thanks!
I’d do 400g of flour and 400g of water with 1.5 grams of yeast for poolish for 24 hours at room temp. Then 3600g of flour and 2100g of water for the main dough. 100g of salt and a few ounces of olive oil. Hope that’s helpful, no coffee needed. Thanks for watching.
It lacks yeast. I suppose so, since - despite according a lot of time for the dough to develop gluten liaisons - the dough isn’t rising as the balloon it should mimic. Hence, I would double the weight of regular dehydrated yeast in the poolish (1g). After fermentation, I’d add less than a gram of instant yeast into the mix, along with the 700 grams of flour needed to transform the poolish into pizza dough.
Remarkably, I find that his take on fermentation is A-1, all along the video. Within the first 24 hours, you won’t want to decrease the fermenting process. Especially if its done in a fresh and shadowy environment (like a basement) while summer is raging out there.
Can the dough balls be frozen?
So no more yeast after you make the poolish?
The answer to your question, regarding why he puts the poolish into the fridge and not leave at room temp is because exactly what you said leaving the poolish at temp does. You said it creates more of a sourdough flavor. Vito DOES NOT LIKE SOURDOUGH.
Love Vito's recipe but you did get my attention. Gonna give it a try
Let me know how it turns out!
ITS NOT CROUNCHY OR ALIVE
I don’t see any difference. In or out of ref is no big deal
You just took out honey and lessened yeast. But the honey and yeast works for me. My dough is happy.
This recipe is like Jim Lahey recipe which I just did yesterday.
22 hrs room temp
The crust was not interesting enough to crounch on.
It’s not airy and light
You must have missed that the poolish was out at room temperature not the fridge for 24 hours.
could this recipe be scaled down by 50%? 6 dough balls have to be eaten fairly quickly, and freezing them degrades the flavor
Good video!
I'm also glad you pointed out that the 70% hydration isn't necessary. That's for gourmet pizza. Classic pizzas are only 50-65% (Neapolitan is only 62% at max.) It seems the gourmet hydration level has almost become a common fad for upcoming pizzaiolos.
How does the dough perform after freezing? Using a small amount of yeast could mean it’ll take another 12-24 hours for the yeast to puff up the dough again after thawing
High amount of yeast ensures that the dough only needs 1-2 hours of final rise before it is ready especially after thawing.
What is the room temperature in your kitchen ? How would you adjust this recipe if the room temperature is 30-32 degrees with a humidity of 68-72% ? Thanks
Usually 69-70f. Hope that helps and thanks for watching!
you mention RT at the beginning but didnt state what this was. My RT is 17-18oC. Also why 12 -24hrs for final proof ? What difference would this make in terms of flavour and oven spring?
Thanks 🙃
@patiopizza What flour did you use?
I think this was caputo blue, buts it’s been a while since I did this video…
@@PatioPizza awesome thanks!!
As for Poolish I do the same, less yeast and fermented at room temperature.
The step where people make a big mistake is the salt. Salt is always added after flour, yeast and water have been mixed together. The salt should be the last ingredient.
I looked a bit into the salt thing and it turns out it doesn't really make a difference, salt takes awhile to actually kill the yeast, so I wouldn't worry too much
@@gobcityAgreed. If you watch Vito make his dough, he always adds the salt to the water so you can make sure it's fully dissolved. Then he slowly adds that water in small increments to the dough as it's mixing. He also says the quantity of salt can vary depending on how soon you need to use the dough and what the temperature is. Salt will slow down the fermentation process so he uses it to help regulate his dough when doing huge catering events. He explains it in a lot of his catering videos.👍
What is the average ambient temperature of the place?