"Are Christians Delusional?" Richard Carrier Skepticon 3
Вставка
- Опубліковано 8 лют 2011
- New Richard Carrier Interview here:
• Richard Carrier Interv...
Filmed and edited by Rob Lehr of Hambone Productions. Re-uploading any portion of this video is not allowed unless consent is given by Hambone Productions. If you would like to use some of my footage, please send me a PM and we can most likely work something out.
Please visit Skepticon.org
Purchasing calenders and making donations enable us to keep Skepticon 3 free to the public. If you liked the videos and/or the event, please consider donating or purchasing merchandise.
I was a Christian for 20ish years. My life became much better when I got rid of the self-delusion.
The parallels to grifting is what Carrier pitches, just like televangelists do. Grifters are all about the sell. I was sitting on the porch the night the Hale Boppers were supposedly riding the comet. I tipped my bottle of Bud. lol
Mine too. I now think of myself as a Believer. But generally keep that to myself. I don't think any of my close friends are Believers. We never talk about religion.
"Self-delusion"...Interesting that the delusion was yours and not Christian....blaming an abstract concept, hmmmmm
@@ceeemm1901 Christianity is largely harmful self-delusion. No different than most other cults and God(s) religions on the planet.
Life becomes so much easier to navigate without the victim complex and warped beliefs about reality that Christianity foists on believers.
you are delusional now
Christian don't care about this there is too much thinking involved. Donkeys and snakes talk and that is the truth. They don't care that the entire underpinning of Christianity is that God decided to punish the entire human race for a situation that they were not involved in, because two people they never meet were deceive by a creature God himself created. This makes sense to their small heads.
Completely agree with you, but Slayer is really douchey and gay. Like an angsty teen's wet dream.
Sith Lord Palpatine says the "sith lord"....
Wow, you have a really limited view of modern Christianity.
adam2aces
"This makes sense to their small heads."
As a Christian with a theology degree, and a former scientist (of 30 years) with two degrees and a postgrad in science, who spent his career in research and education, teaching chemistry and latterly cosmology and astronomy, are you stating here that I have 'a small mind'?
If so, then I would be more than happy to debate these issues with you and wipe the floor with you in argument. I have done so here several times (see the top message) and so far NO atheist has ever got further than the third state of a 20 stage argument without running home to mummy in tears. Most fall at the first hurdle.
If you wish to take this comment back, then you will hear no more from me. But if you do not, then if you also refuse to debate these issues, that will say a darn sight more about you and your cowardice than any "small headed" Christian.
Understood?
***** I have now posted it around 30 times, idiot.
Check John Polkinghorne, and the number of times HIS papers have been peer reviewed, pal.
When you have refuted it, then you have some credibility. Until than you continue to be a brainless dolt.
Atheists are listening to this entire vid, saying "Hell ya!", while God-Fearin' folk be like "I didn't listen to one word of this, but I'm going to comment as if I did".
Religion has ever been anti-human, anti-woman, anti-life, anti-peace, anti-reason and anti-science. The god idea has been detrimental not only to humankind but to the earth. It is time now for reason, education and science to take over.
Madalyn Murray O'Hair
@@AmitKumar-qz2us take over what ?
@@kennethkimbroug8087 Take over the role that religion has been filling in determining human thought and deed.
When the majority of scholarship disagrees with the man, I don’t give a rats ass where he got his degree. The people who love him are impressed because they don’t believe.
@@AmitKumar-qz2us, are you still here spouting 1/2 truths and untruths? Get a life and some facts
Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.
Denis Diderot
Love that quote.
UberTheRandom Randomizer I love reading a lot of his works
Wow!!!!, that is a super quote!!!, wow, I've never had my mine blown by a quote like that, outstanding, thank you sir
An't that right
Then we can all be free in the likes of China, Russia and North Korea.
To believe without evidence is delusional.
abi you are evidence friend.
@@daughteroftheking7617 :
Abi is evidence that Abi exists. Abi is not evidence that aliens or gods exist.
Vrej Egon Spengler abi, is evidence of a creator.
@@daughteroftheking7617 Abi's creator is proof that abi's creator has a creator. Where does it end?
Movie ost God is a being who always was & always will be. He created humans. Look at your anatomy. Humans have seeds that grow once planted, we blossom, we are in our prime, then we shrivel & die, similar to a flower that starts from a seed, grows old & shrivels & dies. God created all life. All life starts & ends the same.. A Big Bang & evolving from moneys makes NOOOOOO sense. Don’t debate. No other explanation to me tho 🤷🏽♀️
It sounds like there are a lot of angry delusional Christians posting comments. If you are mad at what Richard is talking about then he is probably right.
+backcue I'm neither angry or delusional, just very well informed. Richard is correct on a few points, regarding religion and history, but his main thrust, content and conclusions are incorrect and deeply flawed.
@Star Trek Theory: Who is a Jew, and what difference does that make?
@Stacy Caruso Of course, he's CHRISTIAN.
@Star Trek Theory So was Jesus. Also Einstein.
No they think of those that could miss out on Eternal Life In Christ, they are were mad whch I don't believe they are it would maybe be if it means one soul is lost, also there is a lot of irreverence in the way he talks the way he mocks Christianity with mocking laughter. Born Again Christians KNOW he isn't right.
btw every historian with a phd doesn't agree with this man , only one other does with a phd and he's also an atheist.
Wait... the Bible says I can have sex slaves? I was an atheist but... I guess I'm a christian now. Now all I have to do is convince my wife.
Just because you can have morals, doesn't mean that you are obligated to have morals.
The National Razor lol
Yes but only if they are christian sex slaves.
Convice her? Just take the biblical route and beat her near to death with a stick the thickness of your thumb.
.
.
.
.
.
Don't actually do that. The bible sucks.
just as long as you're happy she can have some as well,good to go....
An atheist does not need to ridicule religion. Religion ridicules itself. Nor does an atheist need to disprove god. The bible does a decent job of that for you! Still, for an atheist, it is always best to remember: Logic and reason are two places, "the faithful," seldom go.
What is the correct angle to which a fedora should be tipped?
Atheists do ridicule religion though don't they.
@@stuart3178 Many do... it is such low hanging fruit... how can you not? We are ONLY HUMAN AFTER ALL!
@@stuart3178 anyone will, cause its ridiculous
No, religion doesn't ridicule itself. It has survived in multiple forms for hundreds if not thousands of years, rebutting and in some cases suppressing ridicule and dissent. It is incumbent upon any anti-theist to do the mocking and debunking, because 99% of religious people sure as hell will not get there on their own by simply reading their scripture or listening to their clerics. It's a self-contained, self-perpetuating system of belief. You cannot expect it to crumble from the inside. Would that it were so, but it just isn't. External voices are needed to reveal the contradictions and inaccuracies. Also, the sort of smug attitude displayed in your comment does turn off a lot of christians or even casual non-observers. You may scoff at that and say who cares, and on one level you're right: it's NOT rational to dismiss someone simply because of their tone, but it happens. All the time. It's human nature. And if you're interested at all in persuading people and not just circlejerking one another into irrelevance, you need to take that into account. I want to see atheism spread and ridiculing believers is not the way to make that happen, even if the content of that ridicule is accurate.
The outsider test of faith is what led me to leave Islam , it literally saved my life.
You deserve an atta boy!
@Alpha Omega don’t tell him that 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Religion to control you smh
A horrible religion. I’m glad you are safe
Good, but I'm afraid most people aren't like you, their cognitive dissonance is in full-force.
I have been an atheist for over 20 years. I have recently discovered Dr. Carrier. He is now one of my new heroes. I purchased his new book, "On the Historicity of Jesus: Why We Might Have Reason for Doubt" on Audible and I'm fascinated with the extent of the evidence supporting his claim. It is rather obvious to me, and to anyone else who isn't brainwashed to resist, how Christianity is a total fabrication. I will continue to support him and his work as much as possible. Thank you Dr. Carrier.
Dude, you don't make any sense. I study people and why they believe in such nonsense. You are more evidence of delusional thinking. Thanks.
This guy's your "hero", even though he cheated on his wife and basically screws hookers and heifers because he can't get enough, and resorts to begging for dates online (not kidding, you can look for yourself). Not to mention his ego the size of a cathedral. The best thing the atheist community can do honestly is to not keep stroking Carrier’s ego. He’s a self-promoting sjw, hypocrite, and a narcissist who thinks anything he writes on anything is gold despite those who are more studied and better informed than he in all areas constantly point out his flaws (and when he debates, he resorts to ad hominems and blatantly disrespects his opponents or anyone who criticizes him - even fellow atheists), and this is not just Christians doing this. Online, you can find atheists correcting Carrier on Bayes’ Theorem, science in the medieval ages, and the historical Jesus (as if the "Jesus-was-a-mythical-celestial-being-before-he-was-historical" conspiracy theory ever had any water). It takes quite a lot of mental gymnastics to be a mythicist.
"I will continue to support him and his work as much as possible. Thank you Dr. Carrier.", you sound just like his new fans who are impressionable enough to find him even remotely convincing. I'm beginning to wonder if he pays people to write that on his vids.
This is a guy you want representing you? He's basically the Ray Comfort of atheism (except Carrier is actually smarter, but no-less an embarrassment to his ideology). I cannot fathom how any honest sincere truth-seeker would trust this clown (unless they have heavy anti-Christian bias). Sorry for the rant, but it just irks me when a wannabe-scholar tries to butcher history and gets praise for it, let alone be called a "hero" of any kind. MLK was a hero, Ghandi was a hero, even Che Guevara was a hero (albeit a controversial one). And they all actually made a beneficial difference.
+Andy LH
As I said, those who are better informed on the subject than he could ever be (actual scholars - who have devoted their lives to the study of the life of Jesus; Christian, agnostic, atheist and Jewish alike) have come to the rational conclusion, that Jesus did in fact walk the earth, was baptized by John the Baptist and was crucified (though his divine status and various other things he did are subjective and divided among the various scholars who study his life); this is a rather tired analogy but mythicism is about as credible as young earth creationism and holocaust/climate change denial. All Carrier does is recycle arguments from the early 1900s that have already been debunked. Mythicism is essentially no different than any other crackpot conspiracy theory (that's the best way to describe it really) - one that only the staunchest of anti-Christians would buy into (but curiosity on the other hand is perfectly understandable, Jesus is -and always has been - the most controversial person in the history of the world).
"That a Jesus character walked on water, rose from the dead, is as ridiculous as Mohammed flying into the skies on a winged horse.", not at all, seeing as Jesus was (according to Christianity) God incarnate, it's perfectly reasonable that he'd be well able to do such things. And everybody knows Muhammad died of a fever (speaking of which, I heard he's planning on trying to disprove his existence as well). And you wonder why he only speaks at atheist conventions instead of history seminars.
Anyway, "In fact, if one accepts we're animals, the instinctive desire to mate with multiple members of the opposite sex is apparent in most species", that justifies his adultery? No wonder he's trying so hard to make his case. Either Jesus existed and was the savior (in which case, he'd be accountable for his wrongdoings, not only his adultury but being a colossal douchebag in general) or he didn't exist at all; an all-or-nothing kinda deal I guess.
"At least Carrier hasn't butchered witches, gays, non-believers and believers of other faiths as Christians and Muslims have abundantly done over centuries", nah but people like him have done all that and more/worse in the last century than the past centuries combined (Soviet Russia was packed with mythicists and other ego-maniacal anti-Christians...just replace witches with priests & nuns or anyone associated with the church...or God in general). But let's stop pointing fingers. "I think this is the reason, Catholic clergy who are not allowed to have spouses, frequently engage in paedophilia and are inclined to bugger choirboys", and that was their choice. Do believers in general condone THEIR actions? Nope. "If your sanctimonious hypocrisy wasn't so funny it would be pathetic", how am I a hypocrite again? And seeing as you find any of this "funny", tells me a bit about you.
Anyway that's all beside the point. Back to the matter at hand; do you realize how far removed other ancient historical works are from the dates they actually happened? Some by hundreds of years, but we don't doubt that they are true, do we? Same for other certain figures. So if you're gonna advocate the fringe mythicist viewpoint that Jesus didn't exist, why don't you start compiling a whole list of people from thousands of years ago who we generally agree existed, yet can't triangulate or come up with enough "proof" to satisfy application of the scientific method?
It's only fair, isn't it? I mean, why pick specifically on Jesus unless you have some kind of biased agenda (oh wait, you do). Trust me, if you put half as much effort into trying to "disprove" them, you'll come to the same conclusion for them as you do Jesus, I promise you. But I will say that the fake white-skinned, light-brown-haired, blue-eyed Jesus (who generally comes to mind when it comes to this) certainly did not exist. But the olive-skinned Hebrew Yeshua (but we'll just call him Jesus) certainly did. Anyway, I apologize if I sounded rude, it's been a long day.
+Andy LH The Flood wasn't global, but it was based on the Tigris/Euphrates region, one of epic proportions that ended up in over 200 ancient writings, almost all of which all depict a man or a king on a boat. No there's no evidence for the Israelites in Egypt (which is understandable, given the circumstances) and I wouldn't expect there to be any traces of anyone in the desert (let's say you drop something in the sand and you return a week or even a few days later, it's gone forever). Anyway, I was just talking about Jesus lol. As for Eden, the Flood, the Exodus, I mostly just consider them allegorical myth and exaggeration, respectively.
"Also, consider this: The closest extra-biblical accounts of the resurrection was from Tacitus, 50 years or so after the alleged event. Can you imagine, simply the biggest story in all humankind’s existence, and no external reports until many decades afterwards. So, in conclusion, there is only speculation and anecdote. And a body of historical “fact” based on anecdote is not particularly plausible", let's clear something up; how much evidence would we expect to find that a radical preacher from rural Galilee existed in the first century? None (it's not something the Romans would care about). So a lack of evidence about Jesus would just confirm that. And the Jews mostly had oral tradition. Correct me if I’m wrong, but the general theory that Jesus never walked the earth is that some people made up some sort of fictious divine being called Jesus, God-knows-when for God-knows-what purpose, which later people mistakenly thought was a real person, right? I need to see some credible evidence that this conspiracy actually happened and is entirely the case before I will even entertain the idea of taking mythicism seriously. A lack of evidence that Jesus was a real person does not suggest he was a mythological invention. I mean wealso have to take into account of various other historical figures who weren't mentioned until decades - even centuries after they lived. I mean the first emperor of China wasn't mentioned until more than a hundred years after his death (and look at all the larger-than-life feats he accomplished).
"the bible (i.e. your god's word) displayed no understanding of chemistry, physics, biology, astronomy or geology", and why would it? For one, that would spoil discovery. Two, what would the Israelties do with that information? They were mostly uneducated. It would likely just confuse them more. And the whole "6 days" thing could be better explained in various commentaries, of course it wasn't actually 6 days or nights in our perspective. The OT was pretty gruesome, but it mostly chronicled what people did back then. People took it farther than it should have so God came as a human/man to not only walk among humans but set things right (but that again got out of hand eventually, but that's result of people's choices). And as I'm a history buff, I just get fired up when people try to rewrite it (even before I found God, I was always against the theory that he never walked the earth). If Carriers "morals" are found wanting, what does that say about his bias? You can tell how hard he tries (and clearly he's not sincere).
The fringe theory, mythicism, is that he never walked the earth. Not that he just wasn't the son of God (which is just about every belief outside Christianity and Messianic Judaism). That was kinda my point as well. Christians and people of just about all other faiths and beliefs, even agnostics and most atheists, know he existed as a historical figure. Except Christians and Messianic Jews accept he was the son of God. And the fringe among atheists (mythicists) assert he never existed at all.
"Gullible" means you'd believe anything without question. I've struggled with that question for a long time before I came to the conclusion that he must be the son of God (but I've always been against the Christ-myth theory even as an atheist). And basically The Egyptians' defeat by the Hittites...the Egyptians weren't known for admitting their defeats (the pseudo-historical Exodus has well-implied this), that's one reasons they stayed so powerful for so many centuries. "Many Christians have gone to lengths to fake evidence, in an effort to propagate the myth, and have been found out", that's dishonesty on their part. And history has had it's fair share of atheist liars (but let's not point fingers).
So basically you're saying "prayer doesn't work because I didn't get what I want". Prayers are always answered, even if the answer is no. You operate under the premise that miracles are impossible, let me share my examples which science cannot explain. First, there's a woman who swam a mile from a boat to shore in the sea off of Antarctica. It took her 20 minutes in water that was 33 degrees Fahrenheit. Second, there was a man who flew in the wheelwell of a jet for about 11 hours at 35000 feet at temperatures of -35 degrees Fahrenheit with little-to-no oxygen. Third, there was a window washer man who fell 30 stories in NYC and landed on the sidewalk and lived. Fourth, there is a picture of a man in India who is on his hands and knees, bare-chested, and wearing only a cloth around his waist. His head is buried in the sand. Money was being donated in a dish near his neck. Preemptively he still lived. Lastly, a baby fell from a 10-storied window, and was unharmed. Also I heard of a guy crossing the Grand Canyon on a trip-wire (but I need to look more into that). Please scientifically explain how these things are humanely possible. "no mention of N.Europe, The Americas, Far East, Australasia etc.", why would it need to? As I've implied, that would spoil discovery. As for sciences, they weren't at that stage yet. Your argument just falls down to "God would do this, God would do that" and cry bs. You're not God, are you?
"No, it all points to a parochial god of the bible written by a people ignorant of the sciences and geographies beyond their own epochI don’t know if you’ve invested heavily (emotionally, financially, time) in this belief system, but it doesn’t appear to hold up to any level of scrutiny or logic.", not if you actually take the time to try and learn more about it instead of looking only to what can be seen - while dissecting everything that doesn't fall under your standards - or try to understand the circumstances. Yours is one (rather one-sided) conclusion, not the only one.
I'd like to hear more about the damage caused by Christian delusion. I've considered lots of instances where, ironically, the delusion facilitates, if not propagates immorality; vilifying critics, thinking the environment is "in God's hands", science as a conspiracy, homosexuality as evil, men as superior, etc. It can be used to validate any immoral act.
Yup.
Pseudoscience (like miracles, prophecies, Noah's Ark, Adam & Eve, Creationism, talking serpents, splitting of the moon)..along with homophobia, sexism witch trials, crusades, inquisitions, caliphates.
The list never ends with religious cults and their ramifications.
@@FactStorm
I was a devout believer for many years but over time rational thought, logic and common sense slowly sank in. Earlier this year I reached a threshold realizing what I believed is just fantasy.
@@lloydtucker5647 Too bad most people aren't like you and are too indoctrinated to rise above religion
_"I'd like to hear more about the damage caused by Christian delusion"_
King James, who gave the world his King James Bible Translation, conducted witch hunts in the late 1500s into the 1600s because he believed witches were using curses and spells to assonate him. A lot of people were tortured and murdered because of his delusional insanity.
you probably dont care but does anybody know a way to get back into an instagram account??
I stupidly forgot the login password. I love any help you can give me.
This right here says it ALL! Dr. Carrier has become one of my heroes and I don't care if my family thinks I'm nuts for being an Atheist and a Mythicist. Their beliefs are as kooky to me as finding a clown out on the street dancing to music in his head while reciting Edgar Allen Poe backwards.
ua-cam.com/video/gfHZJq-pV8M/v-deo.html
"If you did pray this would be a proof of answered prayer" Love Carrier.
Really enjoyed this video. He made it easy for none scientific minds to understand.
Entertaining and educational . Thank you for posting.
Religion has ever been anti-human, anti-woman, anti-life, anti-peace, anti-reason and anti-science. The god idea has been detrimental not only to humankind but to the earth. It is time now for reason, education and science to take over.
Madalyn Murray O'Hair
he does an excellent job at that I agree. I wish everyone could be introduced to him and learn from him.
@@AmitKumar-qz2us well, you poor American Judeo-Christian devils; should get aquatinted with Classical Greek mythology...it would help you what religion could be, the fuc...ki...ng jew-christian relgious virus poisoned everything
God=Magic.
Science=Understanding.
Children and the ignorantly simple and the delusional believe in magic.
+TEXP32 And that has what to do with the primitiveness and stupidity and murderous nature of the Christian God?
The Christian God likes to go door to door personally murdering babies and
the only way He knows not to kill the babies of his followers is if they wipe
lamb blood on their front doors. Naw, nothing absurdly primitive about
this all knowing God right? It's perfectly explainable why a God who
knows everything about everyone would need a front door blood marker to stop
Him from killing the wrong baby, right?
Exodus: 12:7 And they shall take of the blood, and strike it
on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they
shall eat it. (12:7) "They
shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper
door post of the houses" 12:8 And they shall eat the flesh in that night,
roast with fire, and unleavened bread; and with bitter herbs they shall eat it.
12:9 Eat not of it raw, nor sodden at all with
water, but roast with fire; his head with his legs, and with the purtenance
thereof.
12:10 And ye shall let nothing of it remain until
the morning; and that which remaineth of it until the morning ye shall burn
with fire.
12:11 And thus shall ye eat it; with your loins
girded, your shoes on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and ye shall eat
it in haste: it is the LORD's passover.
12:12 For I will pass through the land of Egypt this
night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and
beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the
LORD. (12:12a) "I will pass through the land of Egypt this
night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and
beast; "
12:13 And the blood shall be to you for a token upon
the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and
the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of
Egypt.
+Eddie Adams you demonstrate the same attitude as the Nazis did towards the Jews believing one religion to be evil thinking your belief is in the right over everyone's religion. I would say you are just as fundamentalist as any religiin in claiming you hold the superiority exclusivity. Maybe insteading of trolling how about improving on the human condition in giving to charity, volunteer at a soup kitcheen or give to the homeless.
That you would even try and compare an anonymous opinion on the bible on a comment board to Nazis slaughtering millions of Jews in a World War demonstrates lack of common sense and education.
"I could say sir you hold the same traits of lack of education and common sense in comparing Christians"
-------------------
No you can't. Both Christians and Muslims worship warring, murdering, torturing, misanthropic middle eastern sky fairies. In fact, it's technically the same sky fairy. Both have committed atrocities on grand scales in the name of their God. Both the bible and the Koran have their Gods ordering the most horrendous of crimes. It's called analogy.
Your God is a sociopathic mass murderer and torturer. Face reality.
Leviticus 25:44-46New Living Translation (NLT) 44 “However, you may purchase male and female slaves from among the nations around you. 45 You may also purchase the children of temporary residents who live among you, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, 46 passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat them as slaves, but you must never treat your fellow Israelites this way.
Exodus 15:3King James Version (KJV) 3 The Lord is a man of war: the Lord is his name.
Numbers 25:4New International Version (NIV)4 The Lord said to Moses, “Take all the leaders of these people, kill them and hang them in broad daylight before the Lord, so that the Lord’s fierce anger may turn away from Israel
Exodus 21:1-11 7 “If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as male servants do.
Luke 19:27New International Version But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and kill them in front of me.'"
Then Eddie in you infinite wisdom ,if we eliminated God and both Muslim and Christian religion all together, then what explanation can you give to who is responsible for the atrocities committed by the Vikings, the Roman Empire, the Aztecs, the Mongolian Empire, the million to perish under the atheist states of Russia, China and North Korea, war crimes committed by the Japaneses military to civilians in War World Two or the violence committed by gangs in North America where there no belief of the Christian or Muslim God. Who is responsible for these actions?
Grow your own Dope ... Plant a Christian
Grow your own Dope... Plant an Atheist.
Who doesn't believe in a God and believed everything came from nothing.
@@stuart3178 #1. No one believes that. A simple Google search will explain what the means
#2 Obviously you believe everything has a creator... you're rule... then who created your God? Let me guess... you BROKE YOUR RULE... right?
#3 If there is a God, prove to me it is YOUR GOD and not any of the hundreds or thousands of others. Oh... you can't? What a shock!
Some intelligent people are Christians or believe in God yet just follow a different religion.
Do you stand for such blanket statements against other groups? Or just Christians.
A few of the biggest problems I had was that deep down I knew something was wrong with being a Christian. I wasn't really very christlike at all. As a Christian I had to be very judgemental of others & 'look down' on unbelievers. I had to look at others as a 'them' that needed rescuing from their lives. I had to always be ready to 'help' everyone else - to be constantly unselfish. I was told by pastors - I had to be more compassionate, more generous, more, more, more - I was never enough. But, when I became bipolar - the most abusive to me were a lot (not all) of the Christian pastors. I am very glad to be really alive now & away from all the endoctrinations I had to 'live' the bible - I had to be at church at least 3-4 times a week. It is worse than a delusion to me, as I look back. It can literally ruin your thinking!!! Thank you....
yes... belief in God is no different than believing in magic
+Gerald Reynolds ... Quite different: (christian type) God is nonsense; magic is unexplained science. Magic will become science at some point, God won't.
Martin Verrisin you're contradicting yourself
And by the way get your own argument
Gerald Reynolds In what way do I contradict myself? What argument do I miss on?
I don't mean fairy tale magic, btw. I mean magic there is evidence for: stuff that is unexplained by science.
Some magic is obviously nonsense: of course, no sane person believes that. Other is just unexplained. - All I said literally followed from definitions.
This is incredible. I'm a social science student and I'm really impressed with Dr Carrier. Many thanks to all who worked to pull this lecture together!
Kapt'n Pee You online name is "Kapt'n Pee," and you're laughing at social science. Sure.
That's religion, not science. You're really not sure what you're talking about, huh? Fine, let the atheist explain the Bible yet again: Proverbs 18:18, Acts 1:26, 1 Sam. 10:20-24, Luke 1:9, Neh. 11:1, Num. 26:52-56
Sure. The point is Christianity, Islam, Judaism, is nothing more than a mythological club. I like its members very much. However, wouldn't it be nice to have a club for folks who are not so into the "alternative facts" for a change?
I wished I had stumbled upon this video 7 years ago! Great performance and I will buy the books.
When bullshit is hammered into vulnerable minds of kids endlessly they will go on believing that for a pretty long time.
So what is your definition of bullshit? Is it humans are the highest being or God is God? Why to God, or why to humans? If humans, then how do you deal with the Hebrew history of God? If God, then how do you deal with humanism and other God besides the one God and his son Jesus? You see, how you deal with the definition of bullshit is how you deal with what is traditionally good parenting or define abuse. Please explain yourself. Bullshit is hammered into every child's mind - some is beneficial and some is not.
I don't even think it needs to be hammered onto their minds, as children are very impressionable. Whatever their parents tell them during their formative years, they'll believe without question.
halfthefiber
Well, I grew up Roman Catholic and at age 18 I tossed it all out and rebuilt my mind and ideas to be historical Jesus and I did leave much behind of my formative years. I questioned them since they were based on Humans rules and not on Jesus teaching. simple, easy to do since why base my life on rules and false laws?? so, out they went and new laws of Love took there place.
It would be more convincing if you grew up Catholic and became muslim; or even better: an atheist. Christianty in one form or another. You were taught to believe in a god. Which is what you are doing. Basing your life on false laws.
Danie Nel
Changing from Catholic to any other faith is amazing. I could easily be an atheist if history is wrong. But the historical Jesus is well attested but never 100% since all the eyewitnesses are very dead.
Great speech but it will unfortunately fall on deaf ears amongst Christians.
it doesn't fall on deaf ears entirely. intelligent people, including some christians, have certainly clicked on this video and watched it.
as a christian, i will tell you that i watched the whole thing. the mockery and joking jeering that has nothing to do with the actual information being presented (joking about prayer in the beginning when the projector wasn't working, for example) nearly caused me to just move on. if you are trying to actually reach people it regarding anything, certainly something so sensitive as faith, you would do better to leave your smirk filled countenance behind.
gridcaster Believe me I understand how you feel. I grew up a Roman Catholic and if I watched this 5 years ago it would have pissed me off to absolutely no end. The reason that atheists sometimes mock the bible is because we realize now that it is completely ridiculous. I don't mean to offend, I understand as a Christian the Bible is a serious thing to you. The best way I can explain the Bible in the view of an atheist is like this. We were raised through this holy book and told to believe everything in it or go and burn in hell for all eternity. Then we go to school, learn some realities of the world, come back home and find that the book we were taught our whole lives is basically an ancient version of Harry Potter, and people take it seriously, base laws off of it, and force others to believe it. Try and imagine a world where everybody worships Harry Potter, or Big Foot. That is basically how the world is to an atheist. So frankly, the people who believe the stuff are easy to make fun of.
Speeches like this aren't intended to be listened to by Christians. I doubt there's a single Christian in that audience. The whole thing would've been worded differently if religious peeps were the target.
We Christians love keeping liars like this guy in check! Just another poison peddler like his mentor, Professor Richard Dawkins!
How would you know? I can see you're limited!
Okay can i put him in my pocket and take him home? He is the most adorable doctor i have ever been privy to. He's also so smart and i love his lighthearted delivery
What an outstanding and fascinating presentation. Just bought the book because of it.
Fearing spiders is irrational? Clearly this man has never had a surprise encounter with a Brown Recluse.
I think it was phobia of spiders. Not fear of spiders. And phobias affect ones life in a negative manner. And are much more intense than a simple fear of something.
Brown recluse?
Pfff amateur hour.
Atrax robustus.
Thats a fkn spider to be feared.
*does not apply in Australia
I can only Imagine how smart I would be if Richard were my friend.
This is by far one of the BEST richard carrier documentary I've seen yet! Btw, what books are the slides from? Help me out here somebody🤔
Hi richard you challenge me is there any way i can talk to you personally on the phone maybe you can help me with my questions?
I will have to buy the book when I get the extra cash and check it out. I enjoyed watching.
Books like his make great toilet paper or you can give it to the eternally damned for an Xmas present! LOL
Jim Robertson Is that why we say "holly shit"?
Only if it applies to you, and if you're blessed of course!
Jim Robertson You mean blessed like the thousands of children that where raped while your all powerful, all loving, and always there god did nothing but watch over them?
With blessings like that, who needs enemies?
ive come up with this mind blowing site will open every ones eyes just to let you know
www.earlychristianwritings.com/index.html
this is really good, do you have a download for the slides?
Was sup Jesus?
44:55 what book? screen is not shown.
Once upon a time no one knew what happened. So they made up some shit. The end.
Joe Turner yep, and they called it evolution
Joe I take it you are aware the William Lane Craig pissed all over Carrier.
I knew someone that happened to when I was in the RN. Poor bugger hated sleeping in a mess after that.
TheLastCheezCurd
No, that came later when they figured out what REALLY happened.
TBOTSS
Only idiots imagine that was true.
Excellent presentation and an all encompassing overview of the insanity of Christian beliefs. If atheism can accomplish a 10% reduction in religiosity per decade then stone-age dogmas can be eliminated within a hundred years.
Thankyou Richard from humanity.
Gary Bell The top 3 countries in the world:Norway-82% belong to Christian denominations.
Denmark-State religion is Christianity
Australia-61.1% of the Australian population declaring some variety of Christianity.
Atheist here on UA-cam suffer from a deep psychosis.
Idiot atheist
Norway 82% Evangelical Lutherans, 22% believe in a god. Denmark 78% Evangelical Lutherans, 28% believe in a god, you are confusing social customs with belief in gods.
Australia 61% Christian mostly Catholic down from 95% in 1950, churches are closing in record numbers, again belief is mostly through social customs, I know because it is my home country. The last census where these Australian figures come from were asking what religion you were born under, the next census where the question is being revised to what religion you are practicing, we're expecting that figure to be 30% and falling rapidly.
There is no correlation between religiosity and prosperity, Sudan 99% religious = a shit hole, Nigeria 99% religious = a shit hole. My figures say the religion ruins your country, your comment is pointless and fallacy.
Gary Bell The top 3 happiest countries in the world:
Norway-82% belong to Christian denominations.
Denmark-State religion is Christianity
Australia-61.1% of the Australian population declaring some variety of Christianity.
Atheist here on UA-cam suffer from a deep psychosis.
Sudan 99% religious = a shit hole, Nigeria 99% religious = a shit hole
both of these countries are Muslim.
"your comment is pointless and fallacy." my facts are true and you can't deal with the facts.
Idiot atheist
No I showed you that census figures can be worded in many different ways and belief in a god (24%) was very low in Norway and Denmark, in fact they believe in spirit beings 70%, not only that but there are 41,000 different Christian cults (see Wikipedia for a list).
You were making a fallacy that religion corresponds with being "top?" and now happiness after I showed the error in your thinking.
The census figures in Australia were completely false because the census asked which religion you were born under. Polls show that religious belief in Australia is around the 35% mark down from 95% in the 1950's. There are extinct churches all over the place and they're shutting every week, we use them for coffee houses, art galleries, private homes and even local museums. In Victoria alone 450 churches have closed in the last decade.
Gary Bell because you are ignorant of the facts: www.forbes.com/pictures/mef45ejmi/the-worlds-happiest-and-saddest-countries-2/
CHRISTIANITY DEFINED!
The belief that a supernatural deity, had sent himself to this earth, as His own Son, to have Himself sacrificed to Himself, by being crucified and killed, and then resurrected for the sins of an imperfect, inconsequential primate creature, so that He could teach them a lesson about their own faltering indiscretions. Then, the Son of God, who is God The Father Himself, would send Himself upward into the cosmos above to Himself, to be reunited with Himself, in an ulterior supernatural dimension, where He awaits His own return, so that He could be unified with Himself, to sit by the side of Himself The Father, as the Holy Spirit, who is also The Father God. Sinfulness, was the punishment preordained to have been given to this primordial race of primate species, as penance for their insolence. The first created, unclothed, leaf clad free willed offenders, that had besmirched the honor of this almighty deity would suffer the consequences for their non-compliance and non-observance of this Deities' wishes. From this day on, and until the final days of humanity, the offspring of the human race would suffer the pangs of painfulness and death, for as long as they are born onto this earth. But, rejoice, there is still hope. By praying, and praising The trinity of God, and offering endless invigilation, upon death, the human being will be reconstructed and sent to a heavenly paradise, to live in complete harmonious blissfulness, with the deity that so lovingly placed this suffering upon him for eternity.
@Star Trek Theory 😂😂😂😂
@Star Trek Theory ??? you okay? yuou seem rather uneducated if that is your best argument. Go back to school.
@Star Trek Theory ??? again you make no sense why are you here what is the purpose? are you just venting? Religious people are so peculiar.
Insane
Did you watch this whole video?
What were the names of all the books referenced in this talk? Thanks
Thanks for dressing up for the lecture
we attack all forms of myths when they derange people :)
TTbagger Yup, just like Christians claiming that atheism is a faith.
The definition of Christianity - however crazy and light-hearted - doesn't take into account that Christians don't believe they eat Christ's flesh symbolically. They claim they eat the ACTUAL flesh of Jesus - at least the Catholics, who believe in Transubstantiation, whereby the wafer literally gets transmogrified into Christ's living flesh, which they gladly consume. So the definition doesn't do justice to the insanity that actually goes on there.
+KJV1611 Only Of course they are Christians, just look up the definition. There are hundreds of denominations of Christianity. They just believe slightly different types of nonsense than you do.
+KJV1611 Only
First of all, I never said what I believe. But I definitely don't need to "believe in evolution" just as I don't "believe that the Earth orbits around the Sun" (because I'm not in the habit of arguing with scientific fact - while still being open to any new scientific consensus which might emerge, including the earth not orbiting the sun). Secondly, if you "believe in the God of the Holy Bible", then you're not a Christian by most definitions and in most Christians' perception, because you don't believe in Christ's divinity (as he never said he was God), and you definitely don't believe in the so called "Trinity", an idea which was never once mentioned in the Bible (and would be considered sacrilegious by the Jews, probably including Jesus himself) and was concocted later and officially incorporated into the doctrine by Constantine in the 4th century (another "Catholic" invention). Not to mention that you probably believe that this "God" is quite a bit of a maniac, as vividly depicted in the Bible.
KJV1611 Only you morons don't get the irony.
Pawel X In addition , "magically impregnated" should be "magically raped". God and the patriarchs get to impregnate whomever they wish without concern for consent.
16:29 what movie is he quoting? Google really didn't understand what I wanted from it
It's from the movie "Cool Hand Luke" starring Paul Newman. I haven't seen it, but the book "The Christian Delusion" is one of my favorite ones.
my
girlfriend, who've I've known for six or seven years, is schizophrenic,
and what i learned within a few days of hanging out with her is that if
you say "that's not really happening" she never goes "oh yeah, you're
right, I'm having a delusion"
what makes life interesting is she can be batshit insane.
I lived with my schizophrenic gf (rip 😢) for 8 years. She was aware she was having a hallucination when it was pointed out to her. She had solid understanding and accepted it after the dr explained it to her. The medication worked well for her. which was good coz she stopped regularly trying to kill me. She was a sweet lady once she got some control over what was happening in her head
@@sugarnads but.... free will!
@@itoibo4208 go fk yourself.
Schizophrenia is a terrible disease and gronks like you joking about it make me sick to my stomach.
She didnt ask to be like that. But you have a choice to be a cnut or not a cnut.
Try to not be cnut.
@@sugarnads sorry that you had to experience someone you love trying to kill you, even though it wasn’t even from her own will (the delusions forcing her). 😢 I’m sure it left a scar, but I hope you’re doing well 😄
Richard Carrier seems like a very pleasant person.
True. But I'm quite sure that Christians must view him as the Anti Christ.
Truth is unpleasant
He’s always been super-pleasant every time I’ve interacted with him...
@Daniel Eyre you can be a bad person and still be pleasant
@Daniel Eyre u should make a video about...
"I know of what I speak"
Darn right Richard!
Hmmm, this was 9 years ago! I want to buy the book, if it’s still out there!
For sure.
Google him he has a blog you can order it from there and his other books too.
@@sugarnadsthanks!
@@sugarnads😊😊
It’s like my sister in law that goes 7days a week to church and giving her money
fools must part with their money
Because God loves gold!
He should have just walked on stage said 'yes' and dropped the mic....
Thank you UA-cam Algorithm for bringing me this gem. BRILLIANT!
Which books did he recommend he buy?
Speaking of cognitive dissonance. I am still waiting for a response to the following comment I made after a long exchange with a believer.
""things are going according to Gods plan..." "it was not part of God's plan.."
You cannot have it both ways."
Randy.... Every System is contingent on something indivisible . " Faith without works is dead" applies to the Atheist also.
@Star Trek Theory "According to standard biographies, the principal Nazi leaders were all born, baptized, and raised Christian." churchandstate.org.uk/2016/04/the-great-scandal-christianitys-role-in-the-rise-of-the-nazis/
@hatter00 Thanks, Hatter!
@SigmaTauri2 Ineffable, yet you speak about it.
@@markwise2824 Sorry for the late reply. My wife had had dementia this time 3 years ago. Mar will be the 3vyear anniversary of Her death. Life wasn't pleasant. How would "faith without works" apply to atheists?
I never get tired of Richard Carrier...watch everything he does.
Are you saying you watch everything he does? Like a voyeur? Or are you telling us to watch everything he does?
Are you still as creepy as you were a year ago?
This guy is 44 years old. I thought he was like maybe 25. Atheism is the key to eternal youth apparently.
For sure! I even think it's strange to think this "boy" has a Doctor degree. =P
***** How should I have said? English is not my native language. =P
Very well thought out and convincing presentation
It makes me happy, and hopeful, as a Louisiana bound atheist, to notice that the number on the license plate is a New Orleans area number.
The breaking of Christianity into a PIZZA was spot on LOL
He definitely is 100 percent spot-on from all I've seen and heard
we need video! Can he say may I have a video please?
Such a great presentation
religion is a wonderful example of just how powerful indoctrination can be
This guy is killing me with his constant, and perfectly audible, gulps of water. ugh. Good speech nonetheless.
The sound is so *bad*. Please make the sound come out evenly for either headphone side.
Very good stuff!
Are they delusional? I would have to say yes.
I have read most of the comments people have made on this mans work . It's amzaing to see how many of you seem to think you know more or better than the Dr. So to those who feel they know better where are your degrees , and associate degrees ? I swear slap people in the face with senceability and still they know more .
Why not post the date this was recorded?
Very entertaining presentation. Farts at 48:18, but please, I don't want a "whoever smelt it dealt it" debate.
Imagine believing in god in 2020☠
imagine living in a country in 2020 where 40% beleive in talking snakes and Noah
Yes don't call trump a talking snake !!! L. O. L.
I’m just amazed people still believe in Christian . Lots of my relatives post f b Jesus will save you! Almost every day .I tell them I study Bible and even more can’t understand why they still believe that bullshit.
Dear Rob Lehr of Hambone Productions, who edited this video. I have watched this fucking thing for 4 minutes and the guy hasn't started his presentation yet. Nice editing man (dripping with sarcasm).
As an ex-Christian, I'll save you the time of watching the video. Yes, we are.
Whatever you do don't call the bible or religion an opinion as they're very insecure about their faith and any little question or jab at it will get them into a frenzy, in my experience at least trying to debate my youth group, as i found out they don't know shit bout the bible nor rational thinking, as told by one of the youth organizers "these kids weren't ever taught to think for themselves about these questions they were taught just to believe", so their not even hiding their contemt anymore.
@@ELISainta I get what you're saying, but people need to realize what they're book really says and be asked important questions about God. I'm grateful to my non-religious friend for asking me questions about Christianity. He asked me stuff like, "If God is real, then why do insects exist that can go into children's eyeballs in Africa and eat them from the inside out?" I didn't give him a bullshit answer out of defending my ego. I simply said, "I don't honestly know. I'm going to need some time to think about that one." That's when I started questioning things about my faith as well.
Richard Carrier is just too good at logical thinking and empiricism - he clarifies things more than expected.
Chapiro against Carriere, now that would be a fur flying and spit producing debate,
Chapiro against Carriere, now that would be a fur flying and spit producing debate,
He’s also good at promoting conspiracy theories.
when I was unlawfully incarcerated I was forced into a unit where there was only 14 other inmates and about two of them knew how to interpret the laws and file actions with the courts and I dropped out of school after I somehow completed eight grade. I knew I was being held unlawfully due to a false interpretation of a law that allows inmates time off their sentence for good behavior by the prison staff. And when I went to these inmates that understood the laws they continuously disagreed with my interpretation of the law that controls how time is deducted from an inmates maximum release date. Because they kept disagreeing with my interpretation i researched more to show I was right. I researched for about two years and was told by the courts and prison staff and inmates I was wrong? I was released at the stated maximum release date and two years later I wrote the governor of my state explaining my interpretation of the good conduct early release law and told him there was more inmates unlawfully being held because of the misinterpretation of this law. A month later 13 inmates were released, one man was four years over his release date? Some people are not allowed to see and understand what others are allowed to.
Richard is brilliant.
I find that definition of a Christian hilarious! Are there also such funny and true definitions of other religions? Would love to hear them!
Christianity is about sun worship, the stories about Jesus are symbolic.
He is just a personification of the sun.
The sun "dies" for 3 days on December 22nd, the winter solstice, when it stops its movement south, to be born again or resurrected on December 25th, when it resumes its movement north.
In some areas, the calendar originally began in the constellation of Virgo, and the sun would therefore be "born of a Virgin"
The sun rising in the morning is "the saviour of mankind"
The sun "walks on water" is just the reflection of the sun on water/the sea.
"He cometh in the clouds" is just sun rays.
The sun's "followers", "helpers" or "disciples" are the 12 months and the 12 signs of the zodiac or constellations, through which the sun must pass.
The sun at 12 noon is in the house or temple of the "Most High": thus.."he" begins "his Father's work" at "age" 12.
The sun enters into each sign of the zodiac at 30 degrees, hense, the "Sun of God" begins his ministry at "age" 30.
The sun is hung on a cross or "crucified", which represents its passing through the equinoxes.
The vernal equinox being Easter, at which time it is then resurrected.
The reason why saviour myths are so similar with a godman who is crucified and resurrected, who does miracles and has 12 disciples, is that these stories were based on the movements of the sun through the heavens, an astrotheological development that can be found throughout the planet, because the sun and the 12 zodiac signs can be observed around the globe.
In other words, Jesus Christ and all the others upon whom this character is predicated are personifications of the sun, and the Gospel fable is merely a rehash of a mythological formula revolving around the movements of the sun through the heavens.
. .
Richard, would it be rude (or correct) to ask the old JW lady that knocks on my door monthly (for the past 8+ years) if her master pays her medical insurance for her to spread his message, or is she paying him to protect her seat on the sky bus.
She is paying for herself.
I understand the need to engage in dialogue with people of faith but to insult their God is something an educated well manner person would NOT do.
The speaker could learn to respect individuals right to worship or believe in ANY God they wish.
I am a Muslim and I am disgusted with the language the speaker uses to Insult Christian God.
I AM SORRY MY CHRISTIAN BROTHERS!!!!
Blasphemy is a victimless crime.
And get over yourself. Your supposed understanding nature provides weak consolation for an equally weak offense.
Just like Richard Carrier I'm a lover of Science. Bill Nye and Neil Degrasse Tyson are my heroes. I can remember growing up watching Bill Nye the Science Guy
His real name is William Nye the Science Gentleman, but, yeah, he cool. Also Beakman from Beakman’s World.
@@katarishigusimokirochepona6611 Well I want to be a Scientist one day. I like the Royal Institution channel. And Bill Nye and Neil Tyson are inspirations. I want to visit the University of Nottingham it's on my bucket list
I was just noticing had applicable this lecture is to events currently going on today (1/17/2021).
stuck with it. good video.
There are only three types of " believer " : The deluded, the delusional, and the criminal.
Most people in a cult are.
my girlfriend is schizophrenic and autistic, i have a carers certificate (not much i know but i did no homework and passed with 93%, just on intuition) and i've not only been in therapy (voluntarily), but i've known my GF for six years, i realised within days of going out with her that whenever she behaved erratically saying "you're imagining things" was never going to get the response "yes, you're right, i'm having a delusion". religious people act this way, their god is real, it's me that's not seeing things right, they can't possibly be mistaken, i'm the one who is evil and out to get them, god talks to them if i can't hear then it's my fault.
"Faith is the concious suspension of rational thought".
Religion poisons everything.
The most depressing part of the "atheist v. religious" situation is that most people on both sides are stupid.
Almost everyone in the world lacks the intelligence and - more importantly - self-awareness necessary for meaningful discussion.
By virtue of being a skeptic about most things, you’re automatically going to more intelligent than the populations who don’t indulge in skepticism.
This stuff is pretty entertaining. Funny in some parts. I'm agnostic, used to be hard core atheist. I find his arguments funny but not hugely compelling. Most of it it sort of a historian's attempt at being scientific accompanied by a good dose of "proof by ridicule". But the Jewish Zombie thing had me laughing!
I think you meant "and is boring".
Loved the video, great research, look forward to purchasing the book, but gosh I wish there was a way to slow him down. He seems so rushed to make a point that he trips over his thoughts. Richard, your awesome, take a few public speaking courses.
What are the books he is mentioning. He talks too fast
If this video cannot convince people religion is evil then they are truly and literally delusional
All right! everybody pray!!!😁
Nah , not me I’ve tried and it’s like talking to one’s self , there’s nothing there !
@@michaelharris4651 Then if there's no god,how can you exist?
thanks RC!
19:20 Lol. They’re just words, but so hilarious! I think I laughed for about 10 minutes straight whilst my teenaged sons looked at me like I was insane. I’ve never heard anybody call God a dickhead before.
I remember this was one of the first videos I watched on my way to identifying myself as an atheist.... Had only just opened my mind enough to at least listen to what this side had to say. Was a long and difficult road of cross referencing, checking citations/sources and most difficult of all, ceasing to be willfully ignorant, but WOW: Life has never been sweeter and I have learned sooo much along the way. Actually know the bible better now lol
Excellent. Buy the book.
Who is this surgeon?Hes a healer in a spot.Thank you Dr Carrier.
Does his book cover all the psychology he talks about in this video?
I prefer brainwashed.
One sided twisting of facts to fit within limited worldview. Welcome to atheism.
I'm not sure why I thought this would be intelligent with a title like that... My bad.
"One sided twisting of facts to fit within limited worldview? I think your getting atheism confused with religion there buddy, but hey your probably brainwashed so i'll let you off :)
Sounds like projection to me. We see this all too often.
Clint Eastwood
_you're_ probably brainwashed
*****
Is that a projection?
Petar Stamenkovic If you were born in Afghanistan you'd be praising Allah and saying the exact same thing about Christianity.
Is that a projection?
"Because religious beliefs are rooted in faith and understood to be an expression of faith, there is little expectation that they will abide by the constraints of observed reality. The content of faith can thus be held as true within the mind, sealed off more or less hermetically from the broader context of cognitive understanding and daily experience." Ben Abelow
This guy actually proves what the Bible says by his lack of understanding.
I am very happy to welcome Jesus into my life.
I have a spare room with a nice bed that he can use for free.
I will provide free bread and wine for him at no cost.
When he arrives, I will expect him to have a shower and change his clothes.
tell jesus i said hi and to quit fucking around and answer some prayers and do something worthwhile..hes about as bad as his old man..all talk and no do
@@markcongleton9533
But he saves !
so mockery is now considered an intellectual forum?
Borne Atheiste
lmao owned
Jarlaxle Daerthe and you consider yourselves intellectually superior to the bible thumpers??
Borne Atheiste you seem to think so. lol
Jarlaxle Daerthe who is it exactly that believes in a flat earth? or zombies?
I assume the snake you refer to is satan and the garden of eden? you realize that most Christians consider this a metaphor, and that even those who take it literally do so out of the belief in divine creation.
Jarlaxle Daerthe Ever heard of metaphoric speech? Believe in a flat earth has never been the norm in Christianity.
Regarding the question about geographic religions and their counter argument, when believers try to deflect your reasoning and put it back on you, respond by showing how powerful religious influence can be on your minds, and how violent and ruthless it can be to maintain that influence, and if given the freedom to think, they will be able to confidently separate themselves and objectively look at their convictions. Once you have the room to critically analyse your views, without the threats and tactics used by believers, arriving at this point of realization is inevitable. People are not stupid, but as it was pointed out, emotions and peer pressure plays a big role in choosing your lifestyle. Yet just as water does so naturally in our world, so too will people go with the path of least resistance when encouraged, but I tell you now friends, no amount of false comfort or community will come close to the overwhelming joy of self respect and honesty achieved with thinking for yourselves.
I have a bunch of friends, obviously older than I am, who were former gang members, drug addicts, drug dealers, etc
.. I have one in particular, Art Blajos author of the book Blood In Blood Out. Art Blajos before becoming a Christian was a former hitman for the California's Prison Gang, The Mexican Mafia.
So my question to Richard would be if an ex Mexican Mafia hitman, or for that matter even ex drug cartel members who are now Christian, are they delusional now as Christians? And if so, would it be better for them to return to the state of their first being?
If I could answer in his stead:
(1) I do not know anything particular about Art Blajos himself or your former gang-member friends, but I would say, yes, they are delusional. A delusion is not determined by the effect that it has on a person, i.e. whether it improves or worsens their quality of life, but whether it is discordant from reality. As Christianity is discordant from reality (as demonstrated in this talk), it is delusional.
(2) Would it be better if they reverted to being drug dealers? No. Society would be worse off if these people committed social ills. However, what would be optimal would be if they could leave Christianity, but with the positive morality they had acquired during their time as Christians. If that is not possible, it is better that they continue to stay in the delusion where they are less of a danger to themselves and society at large.