Elden Ring Lore ▶ Melina: An Identity Crisis
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- Опубліковано 9 чер 2022
- Who is Melina? That's it. That's the question we try to answer in this video.
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It would help to get attached to our maiden if she didn't dissapear for 30 hours until you progress the story. Why you can't summon her at bonfires for leveling up is beyond me, the mechanic is right there.
yep i totally agree but i presume they did it for convenience, but i feel sometimes convenience comes at a cost of immersion. Its sad since "technically" she is the on leveling you up until the capital, you just dont see it which hurts the experience imo. They literally created the best of both worlds. Level up anywhere and with a maiden , yet they didnt utilize it
agreed
She's not your finger maiden, she's just playing the role
@@montgomeryfitzpatrick473 Not very good, apparently.
what about the times you can talk to her at sites of grace
Oh wow, the claw mark being from the beast eye is something I missed. If she IS the Gloam Eyed Queen, or a de-powered version being used by Marika, it would make sense that she got the injury in a fight with Malaketh
Her being burned and bodiless could also work for maliketh as his attacks are a sort of black and red flame
@@Sleeper_6875 right, and perhaps a malformed or nonfunctional form of death would leave Melina without her body or memories, but her “spirit” would be intact. Perhaps maliketh not being able to kill her spirit or soul is tied to Ranni’s night of black knives. I love the mystery of the conspiracy around Ranni, Marika and Melina.
I don’t believe so, due to the sole reason that if this is the queen eye Melina wouldn’t have a eye at all, her eyes is their just closed,
Another thing people theorize about is that it’s a tattoo of a crow’s foot (associated with the death birds, crows being symbols of death, blah blah blah). I don’t subscribe to it 100%, but I like the idea.
Totally. It’s interesting to see she don’t remember her true identity. Marika put a spell on her for sure and using her as a puppet. That’s why Melina calls her mother because marika is just using her as a pawn.
I do think she's an offshoot of Marika. The way she channels her words like the finger crone does. When the crone in the roundtable tells us Marika's words her voice changes presumably to Marika's. She's crucified inside of the erdtree and wishes for death. Confined godlike beings sending messages out into the world is very GRR.
Yeah… I wonder if the spirit of Death (I dunno if it’s the Gloam Eyed Queen, or the Twin Birds, or something. I’m just gonna call this one Death) is like an outer god or even a sycophant; maybe Melena, in this blending of all life into one giant flame of death, was taken over by the Destined Death housed within, and ready to fight back truly and justly. It’s kinda like when Malenia blooms; in a moment of intense emotion and conflict, the torrent of power rushing through her is finally unleashed, showing in her other eye opening, revealing the Gloam underneath. It would make sense, and could even explain why she doesn’t have a body; every Empyrean has some unique physical traits, Melena’s could be that she doesn’t have a body, but is housed in spirit. It could also explain why she doesn’t quite know the experience of having a mother; she wasn’t raised with one, since she didn’t exhibit any real power (like Godwyn or Miquella and Malenia, or even Mohg and Morgott), at least not initially, but since she can’t be killed, at least not in the physical sense, she was instead abandoned. That’s my theory anyway.
For sure. I think she was a finger maiden she refers to her body as burnt. I think Marika , using what little agency she has, has created Melina to help us, enact her plan.
@@monroerobbins7551 I believe there could be outer god to it. Since we have the dlcs coming soon. Goldwyn is their god for death. Melina will be important role for sure. If you let her live for the frenzy ending
She seems to fit the trope of characters within Elden Ring that are “offshoots” who are seeking their own purpose. Melina, Millicent and Rodeika all share similar traits. They wear the traveling attire and all explicitly state they seek purpose. Melina and Millicent both seem to understand they are descended in some way from their respective “parents” and the blacksmith states Rodreika’s eyes and talent with spirits remind him of someone. And her name starts with an R.
That I’m wondering of Roderika and who’s her parents. It’s so interesting to see more of her identity. It’s also cool to see she’s inspired by Beserk too.
she is inspired by berserk? @@darlingxluxii7977
It wasn’t until Melina pleaded for me not to take the Flame of Frenzy as I explored every inch of the capital that I truly warmed up to her and felt committed to the goal of becoming Elden Lord. Her speech about preserving life was moving to me and I was very sad to see her sacrifice herself to burn the Erdtree.
Melina's sacrifice is very sad. I have decided in my next playthrough I am going to to let the 3 fingers touch me and I will burn the Erdtree myself. I will then use Miquella's Unalloyed Gold Neddle in Farum Azula to cleanse myself of the Frienzed Flame and avoid the Lord of Chaos Ending. This way Melina will still hate me but she will get to live, and I can choose a positive ending like Age of Stars or Goldmask's Perfect ending.
Nerd🥸
I've heard the theory her 3 toed mark could mean a punishment. When you read the story on the four toed fowl foot, it mentions 3 to signify a bad omen.
"Foot of a four-toed fowl.
Material used for crafting items.
In the Lands Between, having three digits is seen as a bad omen.
As such, the rarer four-toed fowl's is a gift of great luck indeed"
For me, the most damning piece of evidence that she is a child of the separated Marika and Radagon is the recurring theme of hair color = parentage. She is the only key figure in the game without blonde, white or red hair - her hair is somewhere in between. For me that is the game telling us that there is a physical resemblance between her, Marika and Radagon.
Also her name begins with “M” and there’s a common theme of children sharing the first letter of their parent’s name in this game (assuming that is her actual name)
That's true, the game has no mistakes doing that stuff. Although what is interesting is that her hair changes to black, a new color different from the main characters. This cold mean that she was a prison for the soul of someone else? (the gloam-eyed queen), and she has a dual-type soul like Radagon/Marika. And I don't know why (this is merely interpretative) but when she says "to deliver you what is yours", is a deadh threath, she is going to deliver destined death. The Rune of Death went back into the lands, but back into its original vessel as well: the gloam-eyed queen. Now with no Maliketh or any other demi-god powerful enough alive to stop her, she can take over the lands.
@@kexaman No, Millicent is also M and has red hair but obviously not a child of Radagon and Marika.
It is heavily implied that millicent is malenia’s daughter. The names are a lineage thing.
That’s what interest me the most and when her eye is open. She has black hair. Clearly the power controlled her physical appearance.
Of all the mysteries remaining in Elden Ring, for me Melina is the greatest of them, because as you said, she's tied to so many different concepts in the Lands Between, and you didn't even mention her connections to Ranni. It's honestly insane, right up there with the mysteries of Miquella, although his are more ties to a lot of cut content.
Even I can't say which theory I fall on the side of. Is she a piece of Marika? Well, that would certainly explain why she's the one relating Marika's own words to us. And why she asks the odd question of what it means to be born of a mother.
Is the the Gloam-Eyed Queen? Would explain all those times she mentions Destined Death, and how the Lands Between is in need of death indiscriminate. Also her 'gloam eye' , the crow's foot/beast claw, and why it only becomes unsealed after we release Destined Death from Maliketh.
Is she one of Marika's children? The butterfly theory seems to support it, what with the other two butterflies being tied to the 'M' siblings. This would fit with Marika's offspring coming in trios, see the 'G' and 'R' siblings, and would fit neatly with Melina being 'cursed' in some way, same as Miquella and Malenia.
Honestly, if there is one character I would love to see return in some way, it is Melina.
Wait G R R M… George RR Martin
plus you find your original handmaiden dead at the start, i always wondered if she had any part in it, so she could become someones maiden and achieve her own goal. Atleast i believe the woman dead at the start to be our own maiden, no info found on her otherwise but i think she had similart clothes to melina
Regarding your point about Melina possibly being one of Marika’s children because it fits with the naming scheme and the fact that her children come in trios, you say to see the “G” and “R” siblings but the only problem with that is the fact that Marika has only 1 confirmed child that starts with a “G”… The children of Marika and Godfrey (that we actually know about) are Godwyn, Morgott and Mohg… The only confirmed children of Marika and Radagon are Miquella and Malenia… Ranni, Rykard and Radahn are Marika’s step-children… Godrick is a distant descendant….
@@DustyBlitzkid420 I think Varre is actually behind the dead maiden, as he awaits you outside where you wake up and knows you have no maiden
@@glick200 Ranni, Rykard and Radahn's parents were Rennala and Radagon. Since Radagon is also queen Marika, that make them direct descendants, not step-children.
Wild to think I’ve been with you since your first video on Rosaria 6 years ago.
Everyone praises Vaati and that’s great, but you’ve always presented your theories and videos in a way that feels more like we’re hanging out by a campfire and we’re chatting like friends.
Keep doing great things !
Woah, that's super cool! And thank you for the kind words, that means a bunch! Glad you've stuck around! =D
She might actually be all of the above, Ziostorm brought up a good point on her too, with relation to the celtic deity the Morrigan. And interestingly enough looking into the Morrigan in stories she can take the form of different beings such as a maiden, an old crone, a warrior queen, or a crow. So maybe technically speaking she's probably is alot of things innately hecne the confusion and no single identiity because she might have multiple. But I do think it's possible she has ties to another separate outer god too like the other demigods and their butterflies yeah
You want an angle on Melina that hasn't been overly mentioned already ? She clearly states that she wants Death to come back to the Lands Between, but on the other hand she also absolutely defends life when you approach the Frenzied Flame. She's not a force of pure Death, more like someone who wants a balance and a life and death cycle. Who also mentions this cycle in their item descriptions ? Ancestral followers. Who is also seemingly related to Regal Ancestors ? Torrent. Melina and Torrent, probably the Gloam-Eyed Queen or at least the things she represents, are likely related to the Ancestral followers and the Uld/Uhl ruins.
As a plus, the restoration miracle she uses when summoned uses the Primeval Erdtree symbol. What else is (surprisingly) using that crest ? Maliketh's Black Blade incantation. Life and Death.
Ashen Hollow: "She was Velka the whole time."
Tbh, i think Melina WAS the Gloam Eyed Queen, but when she fell, her body or soul was returned to the Erdtree.
But when Ranni stole a fragment of Destined Death, it brought Melina back in a weakened, unaware state, only remembering that her purpose is tied to the Greater Will.
I have a theory that ALL Empyreans can serve as Kindling. So, because of losing her memories, all she knew was her purpose as Kindling.
Melina does have her memories tho, she knows a lot of what Marika said even when she was still at war with the giants.
About the Ranni stealing tue rune of death, doesnt make much sense, but is true that souls return to the Erdtree to be reborn, so Melina could be the Gloum-eye Queen reborn.
@@ShirakiAkarin While I do think she still has her memories, she doesn't know Marika's words from memory. Whenever she speaks those words, she prefaces it with "Spoken echoes of Marika's words linger here", so it's more likely she can hear those words and doesn't actually know them
@@LowIntSpecimen great point
I've played through the whole game five times now and I had no idea that you can summon Melina for Morgott...
Use a furledfinger calling remedy and her summon sign will be at the top of the stairs right next to the mist door
@@jeffreykopec8309 you don't need to use Remedies to see NPC summons.
The golden order is very tree oriented. Grafting is possible (just like trees), perhaps shes a Marika sapling?
Similar to how melicent is sort of a offshoot of Melania? Birthing seems to work differently with the demigods and isnt restricted to the traditional ideas of how things are born in our world.
Doubt you'll see this but. Perhaps The gloam eyed queen after being defeated was taken back to the erdtree before Marika rebirthed them as her daughter Melina. She was burned because without the rune of the unborn those who are reborn don't last long. Now her purpose I feel was to have a tarnished worthy of being lord accept the Frenzied Flame so she could kill them and thus get rid of that, but she went against it and decided to be burned to burn the tree thus helping us become elden lord. So all in all the lord of Frenzied Flame ending when we see her is what her purpose was supposed to be allow it to happen then kill the lord of chaos.
I see this! And it's an interesting thought for sure, perhaps future DLC will shed more light on this enigmatic maiden!
@@TheAshenHollow I also like to think that renna the snowitch was the gloam eyed queen in hiding due to well the ghostflame being connected to death, enimes who wield it are found in snowy areas. The ghostflame and blackflame are also connected through death or the rune of death which connects both back to Melina. The snowwitch is also implied to be the original owner of torrent.
@@thenobody7509 wow, this makes a lot of sense asctuallu
*actually
in the world of elden ring dying seem to separate the body from the soul hence she died and is now burned and bodyless, she was probably brainwashed and that is what the 3 finger mask on her eye does it seals her memories, when destined death unleashed it returns to her (if she is alive) and the seal fades returning her to gloam eyed queen state
Eyes are probably one of the most important aspects in the game. Mohg and Morgott's eyes mirror that of Melina and Ranni, Mara-gon may also have a pair similar to them. The fact that our eyes change depending on our paths may also tie into this theme.
- Melina's hair changes in the lord of frenzied flame ending
- Official's attire and Marais robe look similar
Melina is the missing link to a lot of questions in this world.
When Queen Marika became the vessel for the elden ring she was allowed to alter the ring, and as such, allowed to alter reality. She removed the rune of death from the ring to ensure that she had life everlasting for herself, her children, and her empire.
All great runes need a shard bearer to protect them from those that would seek their power.
Marika created her first child, Melina, to serve this purpose. She gifted her daughter the Rune of Death, so that it might be used to topple gods and bring together the lands between.
Melina served her purpose well, creating beings to bear her power. The power of destined death.
The Godskinned utilized the god killing black flame to great success. Firmly securing the foothold that Marika would use to launch her great enterprise.
Soon though, Melina’s followers; as well as Melina herself, began to see that Marika was no better than the gods they had felled. They began to see that an age without death would create an age of misery.
Hearing of her daughter’s plot, Queen Marika sent her faithful shadow, Malekath, to put an end to the Godskinned, and their Queen.
As the fight was closing, Melina ordered her children to burn her body and stop the rune from being stolen by the shadow.
They arrived however, too late.
Melina’s body, charred by the black flame, became an unfit vessel for her soul. The soul of a demigod. So she wandered.
Without a purpose she watched as her name was stricken from the world in all but the farthest reaches. Only hints of her true nature survived, protected by her children.
As she wandered she met Ranni, an empyrean with disdain in her heart for the Golden Order, and a hatred for Queen Marika.
She taught the young empyrean the rites of death, and how to use the rune of death to kill a body and a soul, allowing Ranni’s soul to be freed from the shackles of her body, while bearing the brand of the rune.
Melina finds a tarnished, who follows the grace of gold, defeated by Godrick’s monstrous child.
A tarnished who is now maidenless.
And so she sets the tarnished along the path to burn the Erdtree, and in the process releasing destined death.
A few more things to back up Melina being a Demi god as well
Have you noticed that the only Two Fingers you find alive is located in the roundtable hold? As the two fingers’ lives are directly attached to the SOUL of the demigod they serve…why then would one be living in at the roundtable?
Because that two fingers is the one that serves Melina.
She would not have a Divine Tower, as each Divine Tower is directly linked to a rune that once belonged to the Elden Ring. Since the Rune of Death was not included in Marika’s ring; there would not be a tower associated with it.
This is further backed by the Rune of the Unborn, as it can be powered without the need of returning it to a tower, as it was not a part of the Elden Ring.
In short, Melina was the first demigod. She carried the rune of death, and the whole game is a long con manipulation of your tarnished to restore death to the world.
Nice, very nice theory...explains a lot but ITs just took much yo think
So it's your argument then that the Two Fingers found dead at the Divine Towers had _just_ died recently, when you killed the demigod of the related rune? Interesting idea.
@@abydosianchulac2 it does make a lot of sense, I always wondered why they were all already dead
@@calliecalamity8787 I think the 2 fingers in stronghold are not Melina 2 fingers, because the gloam eyed queen (i.e. Melina) fingers wanted her to overthrow Marika, while the 2 fingers in the hold wants you to marry Marika
@@fredscoffee Im not sure what the basis for that is, if any, but that would be pretty important if true. Im pretty sure all the two fingers are loyal to the golden order, which is why ranni had to kill hers (why she needs the fingerslayer blade)
I always thought the marks on her eye represented the three fingers. This stuff about the gloam eyed queen and the beast eye makes a lot of sense though. Seems there could be a connection between the gloam eyed queen and frenzied flame considering what Melina does to burn the tree looks a lot like frenzied flame.
RageGamingVideos did a really good video on the subject linking Melina to the Gloam eyed Queen. I believe she is the Gloam Eyed Queen/Dusk Queen trying to restore the natural order. My theory is during the fight with Malaketh she knew she couldn't win so used destined death to sever her physical body and spiritual body, which is what she later teaches to Ranni only instead of taking a puppet form like Ranni does, Melina stays spectral for ease of moving about to put all her pieces into motion. The burns are remnants of the damage destined death did to her body, look at Ranni's physical body to see it was also left a burned husk when she used it to sever her physical and spiritual form. I think she went into the battle with Malaketh knowing she'd lose and all of this has been a long game by her to set things right in the end, befriending Ranni in the guise of the frost witch, teaching Ranni everything she knows then nudging Ranni in just the right ways to make Ranni think this is all her plan and spring the trap as it were to put things back in order and take down the Golden Order.
But every ruler needs their consort, their champion. So that is where Melina comes in again, to nudge you in the right direction but in the end you are also the biggest wildcard in her plans. I believe that the Ranni ending and not just because cute waifu is the "Proper" ending if you consider the plans all going right. If Melina is the Gloam Eyed Queen then she is also referred to at least once as the Dusk Queen and this makes sense. When she burns the the tree she effectively brings dusk, the transition from the golden order(The sun, the day) into the night, when you defeat the beast and raise up Ranni to start the age of the moon or night. Going from an age of Faith and control to an age of Enlightenment and freedom. Anyway that is my theory, lot more details and items to cite but this is already so long I feel citing all the sources would be insanely long. Let me know if this makes sense or if I am batcrap nuts.
Nah, that theory video was pretty poorly sourced and made large jumps in logic.
The biggest issue with that is that if she could get ranni to steal the rune of death she (assuming she's the gloam eyed queen) wouldn't need ranni at all, and could just take it back and strengthen the black flame the godskins use again
Rather marika is probably the one that helped ranni
I agree except for the Ranni ending being the proper one. Melina clearly wants you to become Elden Lord. Ranni wants the whole system removed. Melina speaks specifically of Destined Death being restored, yet Ranni’s ending removes the ring entirely, leading to the unknown. I would say the Age of Order is the proper ending. It restores the Elden Ring to the form the Greater Will originally had for it and then stops anyone from messing with it, restoring nature to the way that it should be. It is intelligence and logic that leads to Goldmask’s conclusion, not blind faith. However, faith is still a part of it as one must trust the Greater Will
@@josiahgarber3761Age of Order or Age of Dusk. Dusk would be ironic for Ranni, but also Melina, twin bird and Gloam-eyed queen all fit in with purple, dusk, death ruling. Also it is one of the Good endings morally
I have no theories, questions shall linger on through the years and in those questions the magic happens. But we may never truly know.
Great video, I think you hit the nail on the head about the enigma surrounding Melina. In a way, I am personally glad you didn't espouse any one specific claim as to her identity, because I genuinely think that's not the point of her character at all. I really believe Melina is SUPPOSED to be a grand mystery within the narrative of Elden Ring's core story, maybe THE primary mystery along with Marika's own design and will within the world and the journey of the Tarnished that she potentially orchestrates, something that Melina is obviously closely intertwined with. I think figuring out Melina completely is basically constructed to be an impossibility, she'll always be one of these figures that is shrouded in uncertainty and open to various interpretations, that's the very nature of how Soulsborne lore works its magic, nuance and longevity, after all. I particularly liked how you touched upon the mark on Melina's eye, and what it could imply. I think it is most definitely linked to Destined Death, of course, and the further tying of it to the Deathbird lore and a possible outer god from before the Greater Will's influence is really astute, though hard to substantiate beyond conjecture alone. Thematically, there's no doubt that Melina is at the core of some vital story and lore details, and obviously her identity is a massive part of any discussion about her role in the history of the Lands Between and Marika's Golden Order.
If I may be so bold as to try and contribute to the discourse of this topic, my personal theory on Melina is as such, as it currently stands:
I think Melina is indeed a child of Marika's with her other self, Radagon, born of a single god like the twins Malenia and Miquella, just as you contemplate in the video (the butterfly theory is a pretty fitting expression of this symbolism, I'd say). I think Melina was a "secret child" of Marika's, born for the sake of her design to rebel against the Greater Will and her own Golden Order, due to some kind of disillusionment or other reason that led to her sorrow and despair over the state of affairs in her world. Perhaps it was merely hatred of the outer god's influence on her Order and existence? Either way, my guess is that Marika took part in, at least to some degree, Ranni's conspiracy that led to the Night of the Black Knives, and that the Numen that comprised of the assassins were linked to her, as their set strongly implied. Melina's own similarities to these assassins thus makes sense, as Melina was possibly also involved in the plan, at least from Marika's side. Much like Ranni sacrificed her own flesh after stealing a fragment of the Rune of Death/Destined Death, to push her plan into motion as Godwyn's soul was simultaneously killed, so too did Melina burn so as to obtain her own mark of Destined Death, and therefore be capable of accessing the Rune of Death via the fell flame of the Giants and burning the Erdtree down when necessary. Perhaps this was Marika's side of the plot, and it could explain the parallelism between Ranni and Melina's closed, marked eyes, as both are magically and thematically labelled by Destined Death due to their actions on that fateful night, or event (if it did not happen at the same time).
Regardless of the minutiae, I think Melina was burned for a purpose relating to Marika's own grand designs, but through the process she also became bodiless and forgot her goal, while Marika moved forward and eventually precipitated the war of the Shattering by shattering the Elden Ring itself, and then being imprisoned and crucified for her transgression by the Greater Will. However, her plan for the Tarnished had already been set in motion a long time before, with Godfrey's banishment, and Melina was compelled in some way to seek a Tarnished to help facilitate Marika's scheme, all under the guise of the Two Fingers and Golden Order requiring a new Elden Lord (coopting the Golden Order's desires and use of the Roundtable Hold AGAINST them, in a way). So much of this is learned through Melina's direct dialogue, talking of Marika's words, that it really fits the bill that she was instrumental in this entire complex set of plans, perhaps even from the very beginning. This is why she plays the role of a maiden, and eventually comes to figure out her mother's true intent as we play through the game's main plotline. She does eventually note that she doesn't completely align with her mother's will, and chooses to follow through with burning the Erdtree of her own volition, so that is an interesting aspect of her characterization worth noting. Suffice it to say, however, she does still seemingly follow her purpose, and I think one of the pieces of speculation you touch upon, that Melina may be an aspect of Marika HERSELF, is also worth noting as a distinct possibility, though I personally think it's about as likely as her being the Gloam-Eyed Queen or tied to her, so not very (or at the very least I don't think either identity is necessary for my theory to function on this matter, so I'd rather not ascribe that Melina is secretly someone else).
So yeah, I think Marika and her likely daughter Melina, the Kindling Maiden, were involved in the events that transpired leading to the Night of the Black Knives and culminating in the Shattering of the Elden Ring, and Melina was burned so as to be marked with Destined Death and drawn towards the fell flame of ruin so that she could burn the Erdtree to help the propagation of the chosen Tarnished's journey to slay a god (Marika also had Hewg in the Roundtable Hold as one of her pawns specifically for this reason as well), defeating the Greater Will's hold upon the world and Golden Order, just as Marika wanted. I think Melina became her own person throughout her journey with us, this was vital to her progression as a character and her relationship to us. However, she still chose to follow through with her destined path, closely intertwined with the use of Destined Death not just upon the Erdtree, but upon the Greater Will's deeper hold on the world's Order.
So yeah, that's my two cents, for what it's worth. Great video again, as I said above, I think you really had some fantastic points and it's great to see someone as significant yet purposefully ambiguous as Melina be discussed with such care, interest and passion! Well done, and all the best for future content, I look forward to it!
So I have a theory that Marika once tried to battle the Elden Beast herself, perhaps in the moments immediately following the shattering of the Elden Ring. It could explain why she is trapped in the position we find her in, given that it is very similar to one of the attacks the Elden Beast does to us during our battle with it, as well as why the Beast seems to already have a scar of some sort on its torso (This could also tie into Hewg's storyline, with him having forged a weapon for this fight and falsely promised her it would be strong enough to kill a god)
Maybe it was during an event like this that Melina was first burned, but it too was not enough. She was born or created for a singular purpose, to fulfill the prophecy of the one who walks with fire and burn the Erdtree to the ground. But the flame Marika used was only enough to burn Melina's body, and not her soul. Only the Flame of Ruin is hot enough for that
Thankfully, Marika had already set into motion her backup plan with Godfrey and his Tarnished...
Also, in regards to Melina's eyes, I wonder if the idea is that demigods whose bodies have died but whose spirits linger on have one eye looking at the world of the living and one eye looking at the world of the dead, and that is why Melina and Ranni both have one eye that is marked somehow and seems always closed? It could be something like that. And Melina's purple eye at the end could be more a sign of her as the NEW inheritor of Destined Death, rather than a reclaiming of a previous title. She doesn't have to be the old gloam-eyed queen in order to become the next one, and she's certainly the most qualified and most willing candidate
Speaking of the twin bird. It could have been a envoy like the Elden Beast but for the gloam eyed queen. And the GEQ could potentially now be the Fingerslaying blade.
Great stuff as usual!
You're too kind, Sin!
Good point. Never thought about it..
Ah this is what the streets been waiting on . Gd to see you back in quality form bro
Thanks dude, means a bunch! =)
I feel as though Melina is an Empyrean, and that you are her champion, much in the same way Marika and Radagon are linked, as even though she claims to leave you, you can still level up and use her powers, so she is a part of you.
good video; very informative and interesting. thanks for doing this!
I hope one day they put a book about all the lore. Love the videos
Great video!
My theory is that Melina had been created directly by Greater Will itself to aid many tarnished in order to restore The Golden Order not offspring to Radagon and/or Queen Marika, because Melina doesn't inherit Radagon's red hair or Queen Marika's Blonde hair like Melania and Miquella. Remember that she wants to specifically guide you to become Elden Lord, and in doing so can restore The Golden Order.
See I think she killed the maiden at the beginning of the game that we loot. I think the maiden was supposed to be ours originally, but she needed us, or someone did. How else would she find us vulnerable and ready to make an accord?
I thought I was the only one who though that Melina could be the one who killed the maiden.
That's certainly something to ponder on!
I always thought it was Varre. Considering he seems to know exactly where you are at the beginning of the game, it seems likely that he had something to do with it, unless he's just waiting for people to walk out.
@@Jacaerys4life Combine that with the knowledge that Mohg's forces were in recruitment drive mode, it only makes sense that one of Mohg's people would try removing the maiden early to increase the chances of new tarnished becoming applicants.
Man the more I think about this the more obvious it starts to feel. The Four Belfries location, where one can teleport to the Chapel of Anticipation, is visible from the Rose Church. Also, there is an Imbued Sword Key at the 4 Belfries already. Narratively, the move is convenient for him. Quest design wise, we adventure to the land mark and make our way up. Summitting the area and getting the key we can teleport to a boss fight that sorta caps that adventure and then we can get the maiden's blood.
Also, in the beginning we wake up after the Grafted Scion inside First Step, doors closed. Unless the tide rises high enough to swallow most of southern Caelid there is no way the sea washed us there. Someone put us there. The scene with Torrent sniffing our unconscious hand happens there. When we emerge who is there to greet us as if he knew someone was going to come out of that closed up tomb? Varre!
Without a maiden to encourage us and constantly extol the virtues of the Two-Fingers it is a lot more likely we will be confused and questioning of what we witnessed in the Roundtable Hold. The Two-Fingers are hideous and decrypted. A maiden would have spun that as "This is the form of divinity" or some crap and "Those are the scars of wisdom". Instead, I'm sure some come away thinking the two fingers look gross and Varre shows up to give you a bloody-high-five of agreement. It's one of the first things he brings up at the Rose Church actually.
I don't think that's the case. It seems that she doesn't actuqlly have a physical body(at least outside of Leyndell). Notice how she only moves together with the player or via Torrent.
Or she is basically Emerald herald 2.0 and all the lore is cut.
Thank you for this video good sir just like you i love talking about Melina i love the mystery that shrouds her but here is my points i want to say about. First is that Melina's first tarnished could not be bernahl or maybe could be but the thing im sure about is that Vagram the raging wolf is the first one before us also one thing to note is that if we face vagram and the errant sorcerer (iirc) we could summon Bernahl and Vagram is wielding the godslayer's greatsword. His armor states that he aspires to become a wolf a.k.a shadow . If we look at blaiid's sword his adorns the look of the carian lineage and has the power of cold just as his empyrean which is Ranni. So if Melina is the gloam eyed queen it would make sense why Vagram wields the sword for MAYBE he is her shadow, her wolf. Also if we agree to the fact that Melina was a daughter of Marika maybe she was made to become the vessel of destined death to end the immortality of Ancient Dragons?(a very wild speculation indeed). That would then explain the crucible knights fighting up there and why there are 2 godskin duo and the point that the keeper of death which is Maliketh is in there. Until maybe one day Marika thought that Melina could be a possible threat as we know that the gloam eyed queen is also an empyrean choosen by her fingers. She then bind the power of destined death to Maliketh instead. And another big MAYBE is that her true form was binded to the spectral calling steed ring which as we know calls upon torrent. How? Godfrey , Godfrey has serrosh who controls his very ache for blood his lust for war. What if similar to serrosh and Godfrey the moment the ring was burnt we can say Torrent is dead and that moment is when Melina's real form was awakened. Also i do not know what Marika is really but she herself is acquainted with killing of the gods with what master hewg said MAYBE Marika is the gloam eyed queen? This game made me fell in love with the characters not just because of how they look but because of their mysteriousness and the perfect example is Melina. Oh and one more thing this is not a theory but rather more of a question we can't proceed to age of stars ending without giving the dark moon ring to Ranni right? If yes, MAYBE the dark moon ring is used to summon the dark moon in someway? Anyways that's all to all who read it to the end thank you and in the end all is but a theory.
Is it worth adding that bernahl is summonable for the godskin duo fight at farum azula?
Just a few thoughts, i may be wrong or not, but it may inspire someone else to take parts of them and dig deeper :D
I think she is an "envoy" or a "child" ( in a sense Millicent is a child of Malenia, so not really but connected to her) to Gloam Eyed Queen.
In the Frenzied Flame ending maybe she does not even become Gloam Eyed Queen but only looks like the queen through the whole game because she is an envoy to her.
( again i am kinda drawing parallels with Millicent how she resembles more and more Malenia in her path )
As far as i know in Frenzied Flame ending everything and everybody in lands between, but not outside where outer gods are, should be burned, so no way anybody other than outer god or empyrian can appear there...
She was probably Vyke's "maiden" the same way she is our maiden but not real maiden, Vykes real maiden is dead in that church as is ours in other church at the beginning of a game.
When Vyke tried to "go for the Frenzied Flame ending" she somehow got burned but luckily Vyke failed to awaken the Frenzied Flame and Melina acquired a severe distaste for that path.
But then again, i cant shake off the feeling she is somehow connected to Ranni. Probably the shut eye and connection to Torrent.
Maybe they are both "envoys", each with their two fingers but governed by different forces, Ranni by Marika and Melina by Gloam Eyed Queen.
Ranni abandoned her path and killed her two fingers and we serve Melina's two fingers. That would make Melina an empyrian alongside Melania ( which is an empyrian of The God of Rot ) and Ranni ( which is an empyrian by Greater Will, but she rejected it ) and Miquella ( which is an empiryan of The Formless Mother, not willingly but it is via Mohg ).
Anyway...just thinking out loud :D
Edit: also it occured to me that fingers are specific to Greater Will, so i may be wrong in the last thing i said and Melina is "replacement" for Ranni because she went rouge basically.
If both Marika and Radagon have runes that are a part of the Elden Ring, could removing the rune of Destined Death from the ring also have removed a piece of Marika herself, and that rune has coalesced into Melina? Might this also explain why Marika looks so broken and incomplete while in the tree?
This might also explain how Radagon and Marika were joined into one being, the Greater Will chose to use Radagon to make a rune and add it to the ring, making the two beings into one.
we saw 2 people being turned into runes so you might be right
I think she is a finger maiden (thus kindling maiden) to three fingers and captured by Marika for her new mission as she opposed three fingers of frenzied flames. She changed the mission to free the world from both golden order (aligning with Marika) and frenzied flames. So she decided to help a new lord to arise to help the world from both influences. She may have encountered Ranni and learned spiritual magic as well and helping her to retrieve death rune and injuring herself in the process.
The claw mark on Melina's eye could be a beast claw, instead of a death bird one and that would maybe be part of why the beast eye has it's name. Provided it's her eye.
Maybe the mark on her eye was let behind when Malakath took destined death from the Gloam eyed queen and he took her eye then too. Assuming Melina is the Gloam eyed queen in this instance.
wow that actually makes sense
True, Melina is a projection of Queen Marika, the same way Sorceress Sellen is able to project her spirit to the waypoint ruins while her body is in "captivity" in a similar fashion to Marika's body. Also notice how Melina is immobile and needs the aid of the tarnished / torrent to get around the Lands Between. Sorceress Sellen also shares a similar handicap.
I wish that we learn more about her in the DLC
An easily missed section hints at a prisoner who was to be kindling. When you take the lift from the Capital to the Forbidden Lands, take it back up. You should see a lit torch and door you can jump to as soon as the lift begins to rise.
This could be her, or her mother. I also believe she mentions her mother a lot, as if she remembers the words herself as a witness. Not just as an echo.
The mark is on the opposite side of her to that of Ranni. This would imply a connection to the Prince of Death, the first Elden lord.
The weapon and armor found there. I believe you already found the weapon.
It seems like children in ER have similar names to their parents in some cases. Malenia and Miquella both have the M at the start and A ending thing that Melina has as well which is shared with Marika
This is late on this, but what if she's the half of Ranni tied to the fingers, that Ranni needed to be free of, since a piece of her was deeply tied to the fingers in such a way she had to die to be free.
She could very well be Empyrean, or was at some point and, like Ranni has no Empyrean body. It's possible she had no choice (unlike Ranni who chose to destroy her own body) and Melina is very much a tool to bypass the Greater Will. I think its important to mention how often Melina drills into your head that when she decides to burn the tree it's because she wants to not because she has to. If she is Empyrean and she is Marikas offspring that makes four Empyreans right? Well cant ignore the significance of things in sets of four in the soulsverse.
Being related to Marika is the only theory that can fit imo. All the others can't explain away or give a reason to why someone as important as the Gloam Eyed Queen/Dusk Eyed Queen or one of the Three Sisters would just choose to kill themselves for some random a spectral horse liked. Abandon everything they were before for someone us? Without understanding our intentions at all. On top of that you'd have the GEQ choosing to only speak with you when resting in churches made to worship her enemy, where she'd for some reason repeat her enemies own words back to you... or why would she have gotten her purpose in the Erdtree? Why are we going back to it if she supposedly spent a large portion of her life at the Three Sisters with Ranni, why isn't that the goal?
It doesn't make any sense.
Melina is the Queen, there's too much in-game lore tying them together. Let's review the evidence
1. Melina says that the Lands Between is in need of "death indiscriminate" aka the Rune of Death which was once the Godlslaying Black Flame the Queen once wielded before Maliketh took it and sealed it into his sword.
2. Her being burnt is possibly a reference to her no longer possessing the black flame.
3. Melina is also strongly associated with maternity. She mentions her mother, Boc's mother, and if we seek the Frenzied Flame, asks us why we do not see the beauty in the cycle of births and death. We know that the Gloam-Eyed Queen was the mother of the Godskin Apostles, the guardians of Destined Death, and from what I've mentioned above, this is perfectly consistent with Melina's character.
4. There's absolutely nothing that says she can't be the GEQ AND be related to Queen Marika, these are not two mutually exclusive things. The developers clearly intended this as Melina is likely a key figure in Marika's past
@@pranavbharadwaj521 The only solid evidence in the game is the eye everything else speculative. For example the "destined death" quote at the end of the Frenzied ending, she could only be saying that because true death is now possible considering that being burnt to ash. So why wouldn't she use this opportunity to kill you? Since 3 Fingers needs to fulfill its plan.
None of your examples answer why she kills herself for a random tarnished. Instead of letting someone else die in her place so she witnesses Malikeths death and return to power again. It doesn't make sense to give the GEQ that much history then end on a suicide that is completely out of character with zero indication that this would happen. its impossible to cover the time between her defeat and to the return of the tarnished, but its ludicrous to go even further back before her defeat to try and connect the burning of the Erdtree. At that point you'll be writing her entire biography.
Shot in the dark but what if Melina is in the same situation as radagon and marika but with melina and ranni. They were split two bodies two souls but used to be one body two souls. That also would explain why she knows the black knife move set as they were hired y Ranni in the night of the black knife.
She's def the gloam eyed Queen. That description on it fits her perfectly. The obsession with wanting a purpose with the flames. And her eye def fits the word "gloam" cause her eye color def fits a twilight/dusky color.
I had a crazy theory about Melina but I discarded it because Marika is listed as Melinas mother in the game file variable names.
Melina has gold hair with a red tinge when she becomes our defacto maiden, she is burned and has one eye sealed. That would lend us to believe that her father and mother have red and golden hair. Her mother would have full access to the Erdtree, meaning she was someone of royal family and empyrean status.
When I first put these together I assumed that her mother was Ranni, and her father was Godwyn. Ranni’s dead body having patches of red hair and godwyn of course having golden hair. We can assume that the greater will or Marika would have wanted Godwyn to be Rannis consort. It is very G.R.R. Martin Esq to have a forced relationship within his stories.
I believed at the time that Melina was separated from Ranni by Marika, raised with the other Numen woman close to Marika. That is why she knew their fighting style and golden order incantations. Being with her all the time would explain why she knew all of her words at her churches.
During the ritual Ranni performed, she also sacrificed Melina. Burning herself and Melina with the Fel gods flame, which Adan(found in the evergail to the south of the lakes), had stolen from the mountain top of the Giants. Melina’s body being a non Empyrean burned completely away while Rannis body remained. Rannis body appears to be positioned in such a way that she is spooning someone. The ritual Imparted Melina with both the knowledge to become the Kindling Maiden and also imparting her with the fragment of Destine Death Ranni stole, sealed within her eye. When Marikith is killed, (either by us or burned with the frenzied flame) Destined Death wishes to become whole again and joins with the fragment sealed in Melina's eye.
This theory also helps to explain why Ranni would kill Godwyn, if she was in a forced relationship/raped by him. She would be enacting both revenge and furthering her goals. After all she could have sacrificed anyone to kill her body but not her soul.
It was a fun theory.
I swear the eye malaketh gives you is an eye from Goldwyn’s roots that have spread. That’s why they vibrate when you are close to death root.
I think it's correct that she becomes the glow eyed Queen if she's alive when the frenzied flame ending happens.
Not sure if she's already that at the start of the game tho
This is what i think.
marika was the gloam eyed queen, that was a secret. like your other video states, when maliketh got forced to take destined death and seal it, he killed marika. she was inheriting the elden ring at the time so the betrayal that maliketh is talking about is the fact that when maliketh did this he shattered the elden ring. when he cut marika down. To fix this radagon hastily withdrew from liurnia and left his wife to fuse with marikas body and try and repair the elden ring. he had alot to prove since he had the curse of the giants, in the eyes of the golden order the giants were enemies and he had his red hair that he carried with shame.
i think the fusing used fire untill petrification somehow
this fusing somehow pushed marikas soul out of her body, and an aspect of this soul is melina and the greater part is inside of the erdtree, eaten.
when you do the frenzied flame ending and you see the gloam eyed queen there its because when the erdtree gets eaten by the frenzied flame it releases all the souls again into the world. that combined with the fact that we restored the elden ring hence repairing marikas body, body and soul combined creates marika again, though she was inside of the burning tree and it turned her hair black. or every iteration we have seen of marika has been after the sealing/she died. and when she is imbued with the destined death she has black hair.
when she was taken over by radagon he fucked himself in a bit of a panic to create new empyreans because the golden order were desperate. this caused the children or have defects because it was unnatural.
since they lacked the guidance of a god mother they were easily taken advantage of by other outer gods.
yeah thats pretty much it.
thanks.
Took me a few years to get the lore down for DS1,3, and BB. Elden Ring will be no different. So much damn information. Thank god for lore videos like these to help sorting it all.
I personally believe she might be connected to all of what you suggested,Agtjake I think made a theory that the Gloam Eyed queen might be the embodioment of the rune of death,which we could use as an anchor,we know both Ranni and Melina have a connection to Torrent,as they both know him and suprise Ranni will only appear to you in the church of ellah after you take Torrent from Melina,and would claim she knew Torrent's old master,also,Ranni's spirit face is identical Melina's face,and if you put them side by side you'll notice it right away,then you have the Theories(more likley facts) that Marika wanted to end the golden order,and that she helped Ranni steal the Rune of Death,and since the Black knight Assasins seem related to Marika,this pretty much tells us the following : Marika,wanting to defey the Greater will and get rid of it's influnce,helped Ranni steal the Rune of Death,and before she was imprisoned in the Erdtree she fused part of her and Ranni's soul with a third part of The Rune of Death that they stole,reincarnating The Gloam Eyed queen as Melina (explaining why she knows a lot about what Marika said,and Ranni's spirit face being identical to her face,and still make Marika her mother,Just not by normal means)and her purpose was to find someone who will change the lands betwean,and destroy the Golden Order,guied them through their Journey and rekindle the flame for them,First she thought it was Bernal,which could explain her being Burned and bodyless,as she either sacrificed her self to save bernal or tried to rekindle the flame which faild,either way she created an astral body for herself after her phsiycal one was burned,or it could be Ranni that created that astral body,or it could be a memory of her Ranni part since Ranni's body seems burned when we fined it,either way she continued her search to find someone who was eligbel to become a lord,and found us the player.
This also explains why she becomes like that in the Flame of Freinzy ending,death was unseald and she didn't rekindle the flame leaving her alive,awakining the gloam Eyed queen again.
Don't talk about the less superior and plagiarist Jake on this channel. Thanks! =)
Hey so in a vid from ziostorm they discussed how queen marika is pieced though her womb,
which was no doubt cause by the elden beast, and the question they had was why,
maybe Melina is the reason of marika pierced womb, queen marika was going to use her to set the tree ablaze and the elden beast figure this out so it try to kill her as a infant womb,
but she still survived due to their not being death in the lands between but her body/would be body was burned to nothing,
this could also explain why she has a purple eye for the elden beast had used a shard of Destin death to kill her,
but due to it failing it cause her to be altered by it, which we know it can do, evidence by the black knives blades,
And maliketh when it altered his mind causing him to go partially insane.
She also has a connection with Ranni through their relationship with Torrent. So somehow, her identity needs to tie together associations with Marika, Ranni, and Destined Death/Gloam-Eyed Queen as well as her burned and bodiless state. Tricky.
My pet theory is that she is the result of some kind of ritual intended to purify Ranni's flesh to make her into a suitable Empyrean. A fragment of Ranni that was burned away for the purposes of the Two Fingers and then subsequently repurposed by Marika as part of her grand scheme. And if Marika was the GEQ before her ascension to godhood, then Melina's connection to Destined Death could just be through Marika.
I have an off the wall theory that she's Ranni's child from before the Erdtree was sealed off from the rest of the world.
Her being the Gloam-Eyed Queen could explain why she is burned and bodiless because the Gloam-Eyed Queen was defeated by Maliketh wielding Destined Death. As we see with Ranni, coming into contact with death can have that effect of burning the body but leaving the soul intact. After having failed her quest of becoming the new vessel and reintroduce the concept of death into the world she offers her soul so a new set of Empyreans can have a go at it
One counterargument I see people have regarding Melina being related to Destined Death or the Gloam Eyed Queen, is if she is responsible for transporting us to Farum Azula to defeat Maliketh and release the Rune of Death, how does that work if the Tarnished takes the Frenzy Flame and Melina left you before the burning of the Erdtree?
My answer to this is, assuming Melina is indeed responsible for that, she might have still done the same and teleport the Tarnished after we burned the tree. Since if she wants to kill us for taking the Frenzy Flame, she would need the power of Destined Death again, which requires someone to defeat Maliketh. That someone being the player Tarnished, and she could be using us to achieve that.
It should be noted that unlike the other Great Runes, the Rune of Death doesn't come into the Tarnished's possession, and is instead released onto the world. It wouldn't be too far fetched to think that Melina can then harness that power as her own again, so she can kill you in the Lord of Chaos ending.
Duality/Triads in Elden Rin is a recurring theme. I actually believe Melina, the third child of Marika/Radagon is inhabiting Ranni's Empyrean body the same way Shabriri inhabits Yura's. Godwyn has two bodies (or heads at least), and I suspect Hyetta is inhabiting Irina's body too despite two distinct bodies being present.
Maybe she served Vyke in the past and saw what the Flame Of Frenzy can do to the Tarnished
My interpretation while playing was that Ranni and Melina are the same person in the way that marika and radigon are the same person. After Ranni slays herself with the rune of death, her body splits either from the obligations she has as an empyerion waiting for godhood and the conflict her own motivations for free will or something else. This is why Ranni is interested in your ability to ride Torrent and Melina is obsessed with the rune of death. At the end this is why Melina’s eye is open, inverse Ranni, as well as her motivations for killing you at the end of the chaos ending. She hates the fingers much like Ranni does. And it is possible that the gloam-eyed queen is Ranni/Melina, as the queen is an empyrion “chosen by the fingers”.
Also Melina’s form could be what Ranni originally looked like as we’re never actually given an image of Ranni. Ranni herself says that she took the form of her previous master.
Identity crisis 😂 Melina's a mood now
It feels remarkably like she was once 2 characters who got smashed together in production at the last minute... DLC will probably try to cobble together the story in a way that makes sense.
Dusk eyed queen is ranni and glome eyed is Melina, its not that deep they are the only ones who have the eye pattern and are key elements to the story.
But if you follow vyke in taking on the frenzied flame, that triggers her hunting you.
Unrelated question: How and why does Knight Bernahl gets to Farum Azula? Its so strange that he is there, and not only help us kill the Godskin Duo but turns against us after.
You could say the same thing for iron fist alexander, they both most likely just wanted an honorable death. Also bernahl is the one who gives you the letters at volcano manor to go fight other tarnished, he was probably testing you to see if you are a worthy challenge. I have no idea how they got to farum azula tho
In support of the Gloam Eyed Queen theory, cut dialogue shows that the flame that engulfs the Erdtree was originally going to be a black flame.
I think Miquella is portaying Melina in some astral form or projection like Morgott does when we first see him. I dont think marika is good in any way shape or form anymore and dont think she would aid the tarnished in this specifc quest. Maybe the form he is using is based off Malenia before the rot took her as they look similar and her voice is kinda of young sounding. He is supposedly a prodigy at golden incantations and she too uses them during the fight when you can summon her. Kinda eliminates ranni or gloam eyed queen as a possible identity too because I doubt either of them would use/know these spells.
Even though all of this theories make sense, I do believe that she is the Gloam Eyed Queen mostly because for someone that had so much impact on the world we don't see her anywhere, also she being the Gloam Eyed Queen would also make sense why she would be burned after the fight with Maliketh and then would be imprisoned but what settles it for me is that if you choose the Flame of Frenzy ending every time she talks to you after that including the ending cutscene she vows to deliver destined death to the tarnished, something that the Gloam Eyed Queen used to deliver in the past.
nothing about her voice actor being the same for Rani?
i cant remember who said it... but someone theorized that Radagon WAS one of the runes... turned living... Order ... they also said that Melana was most likely the Death Rune given life by rani, so.. born in the Erd Tree, same voice as her "mother" and.... damn. i cant remember the other points they made lol. but its remained my favorite theory. I love that one about the eye tho... that was amazing.
I really miss the story summaries. They were what I subscribed for. FromSoft lore videos are EVERYWHERE but I really appreciated being able to run through the stories of games I either wouldn't have been able to play, or wanted to know if the story was good before buying the game and having it in a reasonable, digestible video instead of as part of a 3 hour video essay.
This video is 10 minutes long, my guy.
I'm with you! For being the most main npc with us along the way she is the most enigmatic. I'm totally down to try to work this out.
I only just yesterday decided Marika was the old snow crone. Only, Renna could've been that. Melina could've also been Renna and the old crone, an older sister reborn. Seluvis' rise was not Seluvis' to begin with and there is a 3rd sister... Renna/Melina/Marika/old crone/gloom-eyed queen, all of them are contenders to be each other so we might be able to widdle them down. We know Ranni can't be the old crone because she was mentored by her. She is also likely not the gloom-eyed goddess who predates the golden order and so predates her birth. Ranni also cannot be Marika, because she was being prepped to replace her and is arguably marika-as-radagon's daughter. Ranni could however, share the doll with another spirit, I'll speak on that. But let's talk Melina...
We say that it doesn't feel like Melina would've been the goddess of the god-skins. I agree but the nature of the god-skins may have also been different before. When destined death was part of the Order. And her one eye in the ending is super-gloom imo. The old crone was... "old". soooo since the models of both Marika and Melina are not elderly we CAN let that go as an option for argument's sake (I also like to think the heretical frost witch was actually the painter of this world i.e. the painting lady but that's for the fun of the shared universe theory). Ranni also technically has a physical body. And we know Melina is "burned and bodiless". There's also unique qualities of how they summon themselves. We call spirits. We call Torrent. But those two ladies can seemingly go anywhere they want and appear whenever they want. Can only would-be Empyreans freely maneuver their spirit form? But there is a distinct difference. Ranni has to inhabit something. A doll. A miniature. Melina can straight up appear anywhere. So this divergence and the disctinct voice acting/character permanently separates these two. So it's looking like Melina and Ranni have independent relationships to the remaining npcs we named, Marika/Gloom-Eyed/Renna.
(not touching on the missing 3rd sister)
If Melina were Marika, why hide her identity in the first place, she is after all still lauded as the ruler of the Lands and with everything broken, there's almost no reason to hide intentions anymore. Being bodiless she wouldn't have anything to fear regarding being hunted down and killed... right? Well, there's Seluvias/Pidia's craft of controlling spirits as muppets. Also, did the Tree lose it's ability to consume souls? Even Heroes who accomplished their tasks would drop dead, having completed their service for the Tree... Likely every single gladiator arena was simply a culturally established norm for feeding the Tree, perhaps even when it was still a sapling. A little digression but the consumption of souls vs the freedom of souls is definitely relevant to both Ranni and Melina.
Let's speak on some of the odd similarities/connections btwn Ranni and Melina. Both Ranni's and Melina's left eyes are closed and clearly affected. They are both burned and bodiless. Melina's right eye shows the influence of the Erd Tree. Her left eye is safely sealed with a crow's foot. Which may be tongue-in-cheek for "crows feet" implying she's the old crone omfg my brain, moving on.
Melina's gloomy eye in the coolest ending ever seems to me to represent the antithetical color of gold. The color of the moon? the color of the cosmos? Magic vs holy? Earth vs Outer God? Gold itself is created by processes, so those processes may be primeval forces older than the Greater Will. Thops proved there is a magic that can repell all forms incl incantations. And the gold in her right eye has faded completely. (how amazing would a ng+ be where either we have to start a fresh character and face our self at the end. Guided by mad-max Melina. Or more traditionally, normal ng+ style but with a twist! Melina actively hunts us down like Nemesis from Resident Evil)
Her hair is a faded red, so was Ranni's. Although their shades may have been different and that may be important. The fact that her hair turns black may imply that once the Greater Will's influence left her body, her true hair from Rennala shows thru? Idk. There's evidence that both Marika and Ranni were key in the "night of the black knives". Only, some point after Ranni reveals her plan to remake reality, Blaide goes nuts and the Black Knives kill all her key people and even target us. I don't recall any animosity toward Ranni from Melina during this time. Tho I can't think of anyone else, Marika out of commission, who could have ordered the Black Knives to ace their former conspirator and perhaps co-leader even if never known directly. Is it possible that Marika, Ranni, and Melina all took part in the black knives without knowing each other's role? Likely, Marika was the only one aware for security reasons but... that might prove Melina isn't Marika, unless amnesia plays a role in recycling souls. Or if Melina is an intentionally split soul, if that's even possible/precedented. Perhaps Marika had to break off a branch, so to speak, in order to protect an incarnation of herself from possession by the elden beast; and likely with the goal of protecting the secrecy of the plot. That could explain Melina's lack of knowledge (and this may help answer that very bizarre red line through Marika's womb? probly not). We know Marika isn't present anymore, in her original capacity, physically. She is a husk and her body has been made into Radagon by the Elden Beast. Despite Godwyn's death I don't think death has returned to the order until we ourselves reunite the runes incl. the death rune. So her soul is most likely still immortalized to some capacity. So yes, now her being Melina makes perfect sense to me. I just heard something pop in my skull...
What you're saying about Melina possibly being the godly-kindling is super interesting and makes her one of the first bonfire keepers in a way... (there I go again *sigh*). Melina seems to be the only one capable of ordering the black knives to prevent Ranni's nihilistic "we're all stardust in the end" ending. But I DON'T RECALL HER SPEAKING ON THIS WHYYYY!! perhaps not to break ties with the player inadvertently? Subterfuge always has a roll in From games but I feel it's to the max with their latest.
Old Crone aside... After watching your video I think Melina is actually Marika's free soul, renamed as oft happens. I don't think she's Renna, All Rennala's children start with an RRR (or radagon if you prefer, i don't). That may seem superficial but consider all direct offspring of Marika start with MMM. Nary a pattern is a coincidence and this is a big deliberate pattern.
Ranni and her (2) sister(s)... Ranni doesn't just introduce herself as Renna. She later states "I believe" I said my name was Renna. This may just be a matter of politeness in her character, but there are other inconsistencies with her dialogue that seem to imply actual duality if not duplicity; or at least a complication with her possessing the doll. Although she is voiced by one voice actor there were times her voice seemed distinctly other. When she introduces herself as Renna for one. Also when she is talked to in Ainsel River it's as if she is speaking to us for the first time. Again, this may be a humorous and very human type of play if we consider we just outed her hidey-spot and caught her royal highness off guard, slightly embarrassing her in her helpless little mini-self lol. Is that what she meant when she said "the name of Ranni the Witch is already sullied by thee"? She also cannot stay and chat for long and has to rest often due to (game-play restraints) the doll she inhabits. Not to mention she clearly isn't entirely inside the body. Does the body also hold another spirit? It was made after the image of the old crone after all no? Lastly, to speak on that. The doll has 4 arms. I don't think that's just for giggles, or even just because it was the style to give medieval robots 4 arms. Seriously who else has 4 arms??? D???? okay the last brain vessel just popped and I've gouged out my eyes to make the madness stop.
Thank you Ashen Hollow for sharing and compelling me to share my oddservations, a good morning indeed!
P.S. I don't think I helped to widdle anything down lol
P.P.S. the crow-foot over her eye-lid... obv this is Velka we're dealing with yo... jump on that unified theory prequel-status stat
I'd like to compare Rode(rika)'s model to Ma(rika)'s. The radical barnacle-ridden blacksmith who was ordered by Marika to create the god-slaying weapon, has an affinity for Roderika, something in her eyes. Roderika is also the most talented and naturally gifted Spirit-Tuner. We haven't much considered "bastard" offspring. Interesting to note, the old crone was also very adept at spirit-tuning. And may very well be the reason the Elden Beast inhabited her, if she's Marika. May be why Hewg is also so protective, if he had served her mother. The strangest spirit "tuning" phenom is the lion on Hoarah Loux... Like, did they not quite figure it out yet when he did it? This is another example of a soul partially inhabiting a body, or partially materializing.
I also really want to work out the mystery of the 3 sisters. and how the old crone relates to all the above.
I believe the
Melina Ranni and Blaidd theory to be better
It makes a lot more sense a lot of more things point to this and supports the cycle of the erdtree choosing
Jake Ash will you be doing a full lore walk through?
Bird's talon? Like a crow? Velka confirmed!
Im going for the theory that she was apart of Ranni. Born when ranni went away from the golden order, a side of her spirit that wanted to continue the family lineage. Im gonna stick with that theory. We do see her spirit face next which is like melina. Maybe the puppet face is a reverse, meant to show she is the reverse of what she once was.
Melina and Ranni both have an eye closed in every cut scene. I saw the video about the gloam-eyed queen and Maliketh and the eye he gives us. That has to be something Ranni's body is burned so what exactly are we interacting with ? The description of that mimic's veil makes me think both Melina and Ranni are aspects of Marika ? Melina says she was testing us before taking us to round table hold. Ranni knows we can summon Torrent before we meet her. It's too much to be unrelated.
I have a theory on consorts and emperyans. My theory is that radagon being marika is normal. Thats what it means to be a consort. You become one with your emperyan. My evidence for this is when you enter mohgs arena, he leaves miquella to fight you. 2 cases where the emperyan and consort share a body. Lastly, when ranni offers you her hands in the age of stars ending, it is reminiscent of the pose miquella makes when Mohg leaves his hand. You become part of ranni or more likely since ranni is a doll she becomes part of you
I feel like Melina is the gloam eyed queen and a daughter of marika the way she mentions destined death and talks about the lands between in need of repair and death indescrimanent also it mentions she is an empyrian born from a god but it seems she was wiped from the history when she was defeated by maliketh so that is why she has no reference by that name in the lore. That is my theory anyway.
I always thought that melina is some sort of an envoy of an outer god, sent to find a being who would help her bring back balance upon the world by bringing back death and burning down the erdtree and eliminating the demigods
I just can't understand this character she's linked to Marika and the propper death dudes and the gloam eyed queen, but also is identical to ranni's second face linked by the closed eye on the doll. Duuuuude...
On the Lord of Frenzied Flame cutscene, she says “I will kill you, as sure as NIGHT FOLLOWS DAY.” NIGHT FOLLOWS DAY = DUSK. Might be another clue to her being the Dusk-Eyed Queen, plus her Dusk colored eye.
Pretty sure she's part of Ranni or split from her which explains the eye color and closed eye that is the opposite closed eye from ranni.
My theory is that melina is both the daughter of marika and the gloam eyed queen. Shes one of the first children of marika and was deemed an empyrean but this was before marika had begun to question the greater will (or marika was playing 10th dimension chess) and she lead the godskin apostles and harnessed death. Possibly to take over after the death birds' outer god no longer held sway. During this time marika either veiws her as a threat, or knows shell need her later on. And thus sicks her dog on her which also gives maliketh a weapon able to hurt anyone else who threatens her order. Melina is then not fully killed, but somehow forcibly turned into a spirit not like ashes but like torrent. All of this to get someone who has a gentle but implacable outlook on death. All so marika can have her failsafe. But its important to know that Melina desires this as well. She even says she will do this regardless of her mothers will (soon after morgot but before forge) and shes doing it out of a love and care for the people of the lands between. In a way shes on par with ranni to be one of the best demigods. Because she too knows that things have to change. Sorry if this is scattered but i love melnia's character and she is my fave level maiden of all from soft (sorry plain doll) because of how much she seems to have her own plan and goals.
what if gloam eyed queen and melena is like marika/radagon 2 entities in 1 body? where in The queen got Sealed with that tatto on the eye and then marika created the persona of Melena.
Its impossible to know anything other than she is related to death, her burned body could appeal to Ranni's body, marika her mother to the dead soul of godwin, her violet eyes to maliketh, kind of like a medley of the direct victims of the black rune of death. Maybe she just don't like the frenzied flame because a world without life wouldn't kinda sucks for death so she asks you to follow her agenda like everyone else.
i think when the gloam eyed queen was defeated by maliketh she was turned into a puppet created by marika and the end product is melina. Then burning the erd tree releases her mind control or seal
My question about Melina if she (also) has or had four arms? Maybe her spirit form has 2 and her other form had 4?
Melina is Fya, Maiden of Death. When she sends you to the round table hold, Notice she never greets you, but you are embraced by Fya. In order to continue understanding death you have to finish Fyas quest in order to make sure Melina is born again at the root of the Erdtree.
This restarts the Lore of Elden Ring in general. It’s a cycle that circles around over and over. Melina will be born again in Miquellas abundance after completing the ritual with Fya giving birth to the Gloam Eyed Queen, Melina rises via her final bloom as the Goddess of Rot, Ranni Rises as the Witch of the Dark Side of the Moon
Tarnished are only Pawns in the big ritual
Unrelated.. I just came across an NPC summon in the swamp.. Polyanna, Adopted Daughter... When did she get added? Or did I just miss her my past two playthroughs?
One theory is that gloam eyed queen took over melina once she died in the fire with Bernal. Like shabriri took over yura and irina alike. An outer god manipulating us. But torrent believes in us (a servant of the world) and in melina. I just feel she is good
Melina and Yorshka from DS3 are the same voice actor. If you listen to how they use a more medieval type of English is uncanny. Could there be a link.
I know it sounds dumb but what if one of the ways Melina could become a God is to sacrifice herself to the flames?
My only theory is she's a mix of these types of theories, she isn't our maiden since we are still "maidenless" throughout the game's story technically (We ultimately can't choose our maiden, but the game offers a few possibilities if we choose to do so if there was such like a dating system). Melina is in my opinion the means to an end. Someone who wasn't betrayed, but ultimately created and related to the Black Knives to end the cycle persay since she honestly votes to burn the Erdtree almost instantly once it was impassable for us, then tosses you to Faruum Azula to bring back Destined Death so Radagon/Elden Beast can fully die and for us to officially take our throne. She has to be related to the Black Knife Sisters.
Don’t forget the physical attributes of hers! It seems only gods or their heritage have gold / eyes, specifically Marika and radagon. She also has pink hair, which could be a mix between red and blonde hair. If she truly is numen, and even has faith based attacks, she seems more connected to Marika than anyone. Maybe she was one of the numen assassins?
I think that she is somehow godwyn. She’s got the eye thing, which is reminiscent of ranni, and references the 2 halves of the tune of death and the night of tears. And she was born at the foot of the erdtree, which may not mean leyndell, but at its roots. The only person who is in the erdtree and is female is marika, so marika must be her mother. Connection to the night of tears (specifically ranni), power of death (prince of death) (which she references should you take the frenzied flame route, that destined death is coming for you), born at the root of the erdtree (where godwyn was), and is the child of marika. Sounds like godwyn to me
What about the connection between her fighting style and Maleketh the black blades? I think the beast is significantly more important than we know.
He brings up in the video that her fighting style is the same as the black knife assassins, which themselves are likely inspired by Maliketh considering their tie ins with Destined Death.
i wonder why melina's right eye clouds over when her left eye opens in the frenzy ending....
What if the burns marks are from her trying to gain the power of the frenzied flame but failed and she lost her bodie