Well for a start, the engine was tampered with after it left your shop. For me, I would keep well away from it and tell the customer that he'll have to foot the bill (upfront) for any future works to the engine.
Don't honour any kind of claim on this engine, he's pissed around with it so it's his problem from here onwards and that homemade gasket and the ground down bits are a major contribution to the damage. I can't get enough of these warranty stories,they beggar belief most of them, thanks for another great video 😊
Mains bolts have been ground off in-situ, lol. They made a perfect grinding paste resulting in a new oil pump and the bearing damage. Yep the dodgy gasket will reduce the oil flow. The customer knows he dropped a clanger, that's why he's not blaming you.
I am not wise enough to know, but years ago we ran an Essex V6 in a light car with a front well sump, under hard acceleration it would briefly lose oil pressure. After one too many hard launches from the traffic lights the engine started to knock, it did nothing like this carnage. (We made a baffled sump when we fixed it). I realise this engine had a home made pump gasket but chances are it was in one piece when fitted. I think you are right on the money, the swarf from the grinding did the pump in. It would be interesting to know if the original oil pump was damaged too. You have to wonder too whether the remote oil filter assembly was contaminated when it was fitted. A shallow sump on a high revving engine may not be too clever if it has no windage tray and the pickup might have been far from optimal, a shallow sump with a stock pickup will encourage it to pickup crap that would otherwise sit in the bottom of the sump. Was the sump also "clearanced" with a grinder at the last minute? TBH I think there are too many unknowns to reasonably uphold a warranty claim, the wrong viscosity oil is the least of the problems. IMHO you can give a bit of "goodwill" but this engine was damaged by subsequent work, not by the original build......
guy was threatening legal action against his previous engine supplier, why would you take this customer on? high touch clients cost more than they're worth.
@@gowdsake7103 Did he bugger around with the first engine, didn't learn his lesson, refitted old contaminated oil system parts and used his DIY skillz on to this engine and the same thing happened again.
No way would I warranty that engine.The customer has obviously tampered with the oiling system,which most likely caused the bottom end damage.Sorry but it's on the customer.
I've not got a problem with making your own gaskets in principle, maybe a thermostat gasket or at a push a water pump gasket, but on a critical joint where the oil and oil pressure are critical to engine longevity it just doesn't make sense to cobble up a gasket, and for it to be so poorly made, it was just asking for trouble...
funny how the bearing that spun is between the 2 ground stud's, id say it was grinding wheel dust/metal contamination. if the studs needed grinding they should have been removed from the engine, never grind near an open engine, grind wheel dust is the worst thing to have inside an engine.
On top of that, reducing the height of the nut can reduce the tension it is capable of effecting on the bearing caps by reducing the grip length, it gets worse if an angle grinder has been used and the nut hasn't been retorqued afterwards.
I've heard several stories from older mechanics of valve grinding compound not being good either, when customers have annoyed mechanics in some way. From what I've heard if it's added in motor oil, it will run a while before anything odd turns up. Apparently it can't be traced back to the guy who did it either, but it's expensive revenge against the customer !
@@davelead2742 I heard it about 30 years ago, from a couple guys that were in their late 60's then. I'm not sure how it would work with some modern filter technology now. But I can tell you I had a Russian tractor in here with a centrifugal oil filter. It had liner seals go bad so the guy dumped copper seal leak stopper in it being a cheap fix, It didn't fix the leak like he thought. it dumped the coolant again a week later. on inspecting the sump contents I couldn't find the copper color trace in it like you'd see in coolant. when I opened the filter to clean it that's where the copper colored particles were in the carbon and slime in there. It had gone round with the oil/water mix inside the oil galleries/bearings and that filter got it all out. It kind of makes me think the valve grinding compound would go round the same But the paper filter wouldn't get it all out as those centrifugal filters are far more accurate in what they take out and can tell you how hard an engines been working from carbon deposits between services that paper type won't show.
I'd love to see the sump he made/bought, was it baffled? .....and where did he put the pick up? if it's used in a trial car they get to all sort of mad angles, oil starvation , it should have been dry sumped.
I agree with you Dave, he should have dry sumped it, and that grinding dust must have gone everywhere, it certainly would not have helped those bearings/caps etc stay healthy ! the oil from the homemade sump described would not have been good and would've pooled the oil away from everything for too long a time inc' the oil pump leading to insufficient lubrication for too long !!
My thoughts exactly, the modified sump and baffles if any, to many unknowns I like "you broke it you bought it" your a business man you seem to already know the answer time for a divorce. I
I would guess it has been sucking air, either from the crap gasket or due to the poor sump design (most likely cause). Even an oil pump with that much damage will produce good enough oil pressure. The debris damage is consequential in my opinion. I work on off highway engines and anything that needs gradeability (if wet sump) needs / gets a deep well sump. Another thing that would worry me is that the oil pick up pipe has a minimum distance from the sump bottom, beyond that flow can be messed up. And these are usually set close to minimum by design. Messing with the sump clearance would not be good. High level assessment... Would i expect a on highway engine to survive in a off highway application. No!!!. Not without modification. And a shallow sump is not one of those modifications
(1) I would ask the customer who did the grinding (2) also who replaced the oils pump as the gasket has blocking the flow of oil restricting the pressure so changing the pump and leaving the old gasket didn’t sort anything out. (3) who did all this work invalidated your warranty. (4) but as we have the engine in bits we can sort out the problem that’s occurred but in doing so do not accept any liability for damage caused by a third party. Great video it’s nice to see the engines coming in with these problems that have been worked on by so called mechanics. The customer has cocked up but to Embarrassed to admit it. 👍
Here in the usa junkyards do this. They use a metal tab I think made of some form of lead. The main point is to see if the engine overheated or was opened. I'm sure they could also just have custom metal warranty stickers made from silicone or another type of plastic . China sells all types of warranty stickers and are happy to make custom ones for not to much money.
After hearing 5w40 recomedation, all 0w18 cultists had a shitbrake... And NO, your new toyota/honda does not have tighter bearing clearances, they are still 3-4/100 of mm for thermal expansion, no, honda/toyota did not cancel laws of physics. You are just being dupped in to beliving energy saving (0.4% VS engine saving oils 5w30 or 5w40) is good for you. It is energy saving allright, engine longevity be dammed. Your hondas and toyotas drive just fine with, probably, something like 10w40 in OAE or in Saudi Arabia so tighter clearances argument is out of the door.
As has been said before, MAKE SURE that a full disclaimer is included in both the estimate for the work, and subsequent bill, as you cannot be responsible for owner's installation, treatment & maintenance of your engines. And having the decency of taking the engines back for inspection covers your backs, shows goodwill, and both you & the customer can learn from mistakes.
You can’t cover the engine when the sump and other parts are changed. For my money the gasket is the main problem it is a lot easier to pull up air than oil. The engine should always have been dry sump for that type of competition. Good luck with it.
Off-road without dry-sump? Competition use, with owner making their own modifications while altering the configuration of the lubrication system? This isn't a warranty issue, it's a misuse issue. The warranty you offer will be based on 'road-legal' use, on public highways. So all driving must be between kerb stones on tarmacked road surfaces at road legal speeds that exclude drag-racing from a standing stop, or "entertainment" loops at car meetings. Put another way, anything a vehicle insurer will cover them for on public roads. The history to this situation is pretty obvious. Intermittent oil starvation and the use of light oil caused problems with the bearings while being run off-road. (O to 30 oil is only used by manufacturers to improve fuel efficiency.) It's probably why the engine got trashed at the dyno remapping gaff. He's trying to make the lubrication system do something that physics says can't happen. The customer needs to learn how important the lubrication system is, and how "DIY" attempts at trying to rewrite the laws of physics regarding liquid flowrates and viscosity seldom work. They now have made two attempts at 'designing' an oil recirculation solution that has failed both times. Dry sumping isn't cheap, but it would have been a whole lot cheaper than wrecking two engines - with likely a third on the way: the one they are using at the moment. It looks like you have been caught up in a 'design solution' research project. No warranty issue here.
I worked in a machine shop for many years, with each reworked engine we supplied a sheet with running in instructions, the oil to use 'depending' on the engines application & supplied the oil, the onus is then the customer's to follow the instructions to the letter, and if not that was on their head, we also marked all sump & head bolts to deter tampering, and if the markings was found to be disturbed, warranty null and void, it's a minefield now and the reason we sold the business.
In the U.k. And the U.S. You couldnt void a warranty with taper indicating fasteners, not legally. There is the Magnusson moss act in the states and the consumer protection act in the uk. You could try and if the warranty claim was valid and the customer took you to court you would have to show how manipulating the hardware caused the issue. When the customer wins their case, like i said its a valid warranty claim, not only would you have to fulfil all warranty clauses but pay court fees and legal costs of the plaintiff. Even the stickers on consumer electronics that indicate manipulation have no value in court. A, it isnt 100% reliable B, there are nondestructive methods to open electronics C, the sticker doesnt affect functionality. Simply opening something does not break it and the courts in the US and UK have acknowledged this.
@@timothybayliss6680 Granted opening does not mean that it's what's caused the item to be defective, however, I would argue as to the persons abilities, would they have the knowledge to discern or diagnose an issue, & let's suppose it was found they was not, it could be argued as to why it was opened up in the first place, and if they was, why open the unit to then file a warranty claim when it would become impossible for anyone to discern if any tampering was the cause of the issue, and that my friend is why we sold up, the lawyers always get paid win or lose, but come on, opening and modifying parts that clearly should not be is the work of Sunday morning jim under his moggy minor he's been restoring since it was brand new & he's still trying to put it together after changing a flat tyre. Cracking channel by the way.
@@eatsinabeat the last time i had an engine "built" by a shop it pitched a keeper and twisted the oil pump drive during break in. Its probably a good thing it stopped making oil pressure because i shut it down right away. I took the pan off and found a keeper in the bottom. How well do you think things would have gone for the shop if when i walked in with a picture if the valvespring with only one keeper on it and a twisted pump drive and keeper in my hand they told me that because i took the pan off that they werent going to warranty the build? Whats is my responsibility here? It stops making oil pressure so i take it out of the vehicle and return the assembly to the shop? How much of my time do i have to invest? Installing the heads isnt terribly difficult but i cant remove the unit that has a malfunction without voiding the warranty either? Even the inclusion of tamper indicators is potentially a violation of consumer protection act because it assumes that warranty protection is validated based on something that isnt causal to the failure. You make a claim that its Sunday morning Jim that is the one thats going to damage the package through inept modification. That fictional person isnt the customer base of a machine shop of this caliber. Most people involved in the hobby or profession arent grinding mains hardware to fit a pan. Most people that do this and would use this shop for service would know how to swap a cylinder head or pan without causing malfeasance. The evidence of this is the lack of spurious warranty claims.
Lack of oil pressure Spun a rod bearing That debris went through the system and chewed front and rear main journals…….. Simple - lack of oil pressure Not your problem - racing application
Can’t believe anyone would grind a stud with the sump open!! And surely if the issue was clearance then the sump would be in place whilst taking off the visible excess!!!! My money ( in the absence of anything more obvious - Would be air ingress from the poor oil pump seal. A decent slug of air in any high pressure hydraulic system usually results in no consistent pressure at all! Be it water, fuel or oil…. As for the original complaint of low pressure “ Shallow sump in a trials vehicle!! Is just asking for trouble!!! Even a standard sump on a Subaru track car can cause carnage when you add a bit of centrifugal force, , tip it on it’s side and you’re sure to be sucking air, there’s a reason why manufacturers exclude competition use from warranty claims, mechanical abuse, high revs and slow speed, total lack of mechanical sympathy and never getting the full story!!!!… to name but a few!!!!! 🙄
I'd ask to see the non standard sump .. if using the enging in a rock crawler, would need to have the sump baffled to maintain an oil level, for the oil pump.. when the engine is Running Hard at Stupid angles.. Just a Thought .. Or as you said a Dry Sump system would be so much better ... I'd show him the Current bill, for the works done to date, and give him a High repair price to have the work done.. Hopefully he will just scrap the engine and take it away from your shop..... Never to be seen again .. Andy Mac..
I would be interested to see the sump. Wonder if he is having pick up problems if it's that shallow he need to mod the bolts. Is there a pot on it for the pick up and how deep is it? Like you say. Big oil surge issues?
Admire your work but I’ve no idea why you’re taking on jobs like this. An engine that’s already been rebuilt and failed = red flag. An engine that the customers wanting to make their own sump and use for rallying = red flag. Anything modified in the slightest I wouldn’t be touching considering how busy the engine machine places are around here doing standard car engine rebuilds. Just asking for grief surely working on modified old Cortinas 🤷🏻♂️
where is the Oil pan and the Pickup tube... i have run into many issues with poorly designed oil pump pickup tube and oil pickup screens.. the pickup not deep enough in the pan.. had one customer made oil pickup... that was made with perforated sheet metal. the holes were tiny and spaced too far apart unlike a screen with the holes the same size but only the thickness of the wire between the holes so there is a lots more surface area... i also HATE flat oil pickup surface shapes.. i like a nice convex shape.. so there is a low pressure area of oil being pulled up.. a flat surface to the pickup screen or grill allows the oil to slide away leaving the pickup exposed. . since he keeps bringing it back.. and it previously expired on the dyno.. something is wrong in the oiling system.. since the engine was rebuilt twice and the oil pump changed several times.. it leads to the Pickup /oil pan issues. excessively thin oil.. question.. have you ever set up an oil pump dynometer.. so you can check the flow rates and pressure at various pump speeds .. used to have an oil pump rebuilder in los angeles that would also take used oil pumps from warranty returns and flow /pressure test them for you.. i would really like you to measure the end gear clearance of the returned pump.. a JPaydirt on youtube ended up with a Peterbuilt dump truck with a Cummins N14 diesel.. pump specs were 4 to 8 thousands of an inch of gear to case end play.. all the replacement pumps and he went thru several trying to find a good one .. china from several brands.. even factory cummins were china pumps with 0.008" end play.. he had the pump housing lapped to take it down to .005 and ended his low pressure oil problems.. there was a video of another tuber building an N14.. washing the pump... the solvent went thru the pump so fast it was like going down a drain. a comment i made on a Circle track or stock car racing magazine a bunch of years ago.. resulted in somebody reading it and on GM revamp of the LS1 the LT1.. they actually build a swiveling engine dyno.. that rotated the engine at various loads to angles that duplicated the forces changing the oil levels around in the pan during acceleration.. cornering and braking. check youtube for Chevy LT1 tilting Dyno.. i don't know if ford in europe has done like ford in america and replaced the oil pressure sending units with a reversed oil pressure switch... open contacts below 5 psi and closed above 7 to move the gauge up off zero part way.. if you end up building another one of these engines for that person.. weld some 6x1.0 nuts to the side of the oil pump pickup.. so the pickup can't be blocked by the oil pan being pulled up by an incorrect PCV system without a crankcase vent system.. without a crankcase vent system.. using a pcv only.. oil pans have been sucked up and blocked the oil pump pickup screen.. had a friend with a race Honda H22 ... insane build.. 14 to 1 compression drag race engine... had a Vacuum sump set up.. it sucked the front crank and aux shaft seals in.. had to find flanged seals.. and glue the rear main seal in place. ended up going to a GM electric smog pump... turned on as he lit the second stage light.. ran a vacuum/turbo boost gauge hooked up to his crankcase.. to make sure he did not over pressurize or over vacuum the crankcase.. causing issues. thinking of that insane raspy honda.. i did a paper napkin drawing of a tuning tube that fit in at the 3 bolt collector after the flex joint.. it tapered the pipe diameter down from 2.5" to 1 3/4" and was almost a foot long. this increased the speed of the exhaust gasses after the collector.. at 7,000 RPM on the hub chassis dynos.. he went from 265 horse power to 275 by just installing the first try at a tuning tube.. also totally changed the way the car sounded. instead of sounding like a raspy honda.. it sounded like a healthy big block chevy. it was insane the difference a tuning tube caused. he had closed loop fuel injection also. so it could compensate for the change in scavenging on the engine and the change in manifold vacuum,
Theres ya problem buddy....mazda lol. Tell ya client hes lucky it ddnt have volvo written on it. Ive come across a rebuilt v8 scania that had a ground crank then reasembled with standard bearings! Durrr
I had an oil pressure problem on a v6 engine from an 1986 oldsmobile, it was modified for a jeep install, it turned out to be the thickness of the gasket being increased and the sump being elongated. Same damage too. Cork gasket was more than twice as thick as stock, I ended up making a gasket out of a phonebook cover and it worked for years.
It's obviously no fault of your company... But it also seems that the poor bloke has had no luck with that engine... As you already have the engine strip down I would offer to replace the bearing caps and do a dry sump conversion at cost for him... A bit of good will goes a long way plus he is parts of your local racing community and word-of-mouth goes a long way for a small business like your own
Engine has clearly been tampered with since you rebuilt it...advise customer on what you have found and why engine has failed...as it's been tampered no warranty claim....advise him you can rebuild at full cost or put it back together and give it back to him...
Grinding away material from the studs and nuts would surely change the torques plus heat and vibration, then add loads of lovley griding dust. Then then the oil starvation gasket, charge him for all your time and some.
Knuckle draggers and their "projects", don't we just love marvelling at their follies. Also once they've spent loads of money on good parts, and then screwed it all up, their "projects" can become cheap "spares or repair" for the rest of us.
Typical have a go motor sport enthusiast. When will people learn it costs £5k + for a full std. engine build and goes up from there👾 If you don't want to spend that money, buy a used unit and replace it when it goes pop
If you get low oil pressure warning, then you stop as soon as it is safe to do so. Then get it repaired! How long did he drive with no oil ? Never carry on and hope if fixes it self. If you know you have an oil problem and carry on, then it's your own fault when when it gets damaged. He should have brought it back and shown you the oil pressure problem, What exactly was he doing! driving at 45 deg off road with oil all at the wrong end of his sump? Was he using the wrong extra thin oil trying to get more power?
Did not c where u checked the size on your journals to c if u guys were off with your grinding calculations that's where oil pressure happens and Custer stated he never had good oil press. U know dam well that gasket isn't the cause not the grinding of those bolt heads. U should of torn down and checked as soon as he told u low oil pressure. Also u know the 0-30 oil was not the prob. Bottom line fix this man's engine.
Another dimwit customer that thinks he is a engineering genius. That grinding dust definitely went into the engine, that's why the pump rotors look bad. The gasket is a shocker. The crack would cause aeration and the overlap would cause cavitation also damaging the pump rotors. This damage is all the customers own fault.
That’s what an engine looks like after Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck work on it engine after a professional rebuilds it, Why do they even bring it to you in the first place if their going to go in there and play master mechanic, Just smile tell him what’s wrong with it and that now he has an expensive boat anchor 😂
Over the years I have built a few engines, slapping together Nissan/Datsun A12/14 for my Datsun 1200 ute to a couple of stroked 355ci GM V8 not to mention all the sixes and motorbike engines. I'm an not a mechanic I'm a boilermaker by trade and now build guitar amps. My point is some people need to just stay away from engine builds if they are not that technically minded. Manufacturers spend millions of dollars on R and D and typically know best, I just love the way some people seem to know better than the designers. But in this case dry sump warranted and proper gaskets plus recommended oil weight and someone who knows what they are doing.
Just read what you wrote and with all the POOR quality aftermarket parts out there it is near impossible for somebody who does know their trade to do a build. From bad lifters to bad valves, cams and springs. You should not have to machine "new" parts.
Rebuilding car engines are for mugs , with all the millions of cars on the road and the way todays cars are manufactured makes them disposable unfortunately, a bit like today's vacuum cleaners, I have rebuild engines myself, servicing is of course important however vintage cars are of more interest
When I sold turbochargers warranty was the worst part of any given day. People would pop a turbo, bolt a new one on, and pop the new one with all of the shrapnel from the old turbo and then demand warranty. As if it was in place for their mistakes. They rarely would figure out why the old turbo went bad then they would wonder why the new unit only lasted 6 months. It was MY fault every time of course.
Thats kind of what you get for tinkering. He literally fixed it until it was broken. There was nothing wrong with it. My Ford 4.0 has medium low pressure most of the time and it works just fine.
Tell them if it’s a modified engine for racing or any ather performance purposes no warranty,, unless all racing components are used dry sump , racing piston or at least Pro formants parts , then limited warranty,,, only warranty engine if it’s going into ordinary old public bangers,,
Man should learn to change his oil according to use & operating conditions. Shallow sump no matter how wide will limit peak oil pressure especially with stock oil pump🙏
When in this case an engine moves through different hands and possibly different levels of competence and modifications take place you are entering the lions dem, I can understand that you like engines that you have built and have failed to come back to you for analysis but how to attribute blame after the event is almost impossible.
yes, but by doing the forensic analysis he can PROVE it was not done in HIS SHOP. the engines owner can track down who did what, but i'm betting he did it himself.
i don't think you are doowing yourselves enny favours with all the comebacks you have posting on hear the odd one is ok but all the vids you make on customer's complaining on a shit rebuild dus not look good on the work you do and is just you looking to pass the blame on others
Would you ever let an engine that you had rebuilt at whatever cost to you be removed from your premises to take to another engine builder without being paid for your work
I've never seen a spun bearing due to particles they only spin through oil starvation and overheating I've pulled sumps off with an inch of carbon in them and big ends gone but never a spun one, the low pressure could be a relief valve faulty, 0w30 oil is like water when hot I don't like it at all you need high-pressure oil pumps to get the same protection with it 10 w 40 never had a problem with it, why was the pressure not checked when rebuilt the first time around, he said he wasn't happy with the oil pressure why keep driving it with low oil pressure numpty, the cooler will need cleaning out and all the pipes as well, Good advise DON'T GRIND INSIDE AN ENGINE FFS.
Has anyone checked the oil pick up pipe? you say the sump had been modified so the pick up may have modified also ? and if its been modified as badly as the other mods we have seen???
Seems to me the customer has messed about with it after it left the shop but hasn't got a clue and ballsed it up and now is trying to claim on warranty for his incompatence .
Not your problem that engine been missed round with them crank bolts been ground down and not the right oil in l it the oil pump been pissed round with no wonder is scrap probably had some stick are bet to
Modern engine won’t take a shallow sump off-roading. My 1958 landrover has a deep 5litre sump and it has HUGE big end bearings. (Like V8 journal width). As the engine guy said, “it’s not how often you run without oil, it’s how fast it makes pressure again.” (Basically how long before a big ends run dry) So you are spot on with dry sump, I did it to my Rover V8 and it is the right thing offroad. It sat at 28 to 40 psi all day no matter what stupid angle we had it Idling at. Basically the customer tried some tricks and they didn’t work out. (And the outcome seen appears to match the modifications mentioned) (as a weird engineering note; ironically you are better with a narrow sump that carries half the oil than wings that let it hide from the pickup)
I'm with the above. I'm used to marine engines and they are specified with deeper sumps to make sure the pump has a chance to keep the suction submerged when the vessel rolls and pitches, which is basically what happens when you ride trail with a car. They can spent quite some time at odd angles in these stages. I would want to know what the suction arrangement for that lub oil pump is. Further does the owner intent to fit the same sump again/same use?
I wouldn't even bother with a warranty claim, hes been pissing about with it cocked it up and blaming you, chances are when he was grinding those bolts down iron filings went everwhere, also these mazdas need the correct sump and proper location of the filter, you said it was a remote filter which indicates it was piped off somewhere else well that alone will play havoc with pressures take a lot longer to run up to pressure even worse if he's using thin oil.
Without there being enough oil for analysis, it's like trying to solve a crime with the most important evidence missing: the blood. On that point alone it means there's no evidence indicating your being responsible.
Can't tamper with the internals after a rebuild and get a warranty when it rattles.. simple. Soon as you separate that rocker or head it's over to you. ( Unless qualified ) So totally agree with you. The dangers of the hobbiest touching an engine or taking it elsewhere after its rebuild is like Thornton's selling a bag of used Toffees... No chance
We do rebulit engine in my garage , we wouldn't rebulit the engine again unless he pays again, I grantee you from experience he most likely won't accept again, but you car try to help him by offering him discounted price... Good Luck
I like your videos. I am an old mechanic from the US. I would never, ever let someone walk out of my shop with an incomplete engine. In fact, I always made sure we installed any engine rebuild in the car before we let it leave. In addition, I would insist as a condition of warranty that they return the car for inspection and oil change after 2000 miles. There is just so much that can go wrong as evidenced by the warranty claims I have seen here. help me understand why you do that, you must have a good reason as you seem to be a very smart guy.
Do what I do, warranty nothing. I only promise ill do my best work for the customer, if that's not good enough, let them go elsewhere. You never have full control of the engine/installation/run in/driving/maintenance.
Just say bluntly what you think what has happened. Be honest and say what you can do for a honest price. If the customer leave then that's his take. If the customer is smart he will say: go on with the job and phone me when it's ready. Important: just say in the start of the conversation bluntly what your investigation came up with. Don't be diplomatic on an English way.
Great video. There is a difference between oil pressure and volume . No worries with pressure but suffering from lack of volume Wrong pan will suffocate the pump
There is not really a difference. Pressure is an effect of volume. If you have insufficient volume you will never achieve adequate pressure. Pressure is the effect of restriction against the volume of the liquid being moved. Lower the volume and you lower the pressure. Increase the volume and you increase the pressure. Change the viscosity of the liquid and you have to change the volume being moved to maintain the same pressure. Either increase the volume for a thinner liquid or decrease for a thicker liquid. The preceding applies to loss lubrication systems such as the oiling system in an engine. Closed systems the preceding may not apply.
i dont agree it was the spec of the oil . more like the sump he made for it lacks capacity , i do agree a dry sump system is required . also the oil presure relief valve needs to be checked . the split in the gasket would not help but i dont think its the cause at all . the bearing spun because it got hot due to low pressure and not due from the grinding of the bolts
I think you did the right thing taking it back and checking it out. I suspect it is a combination of the problems you mentioned. The flat sump may not be suitable for the highly angled terrain he is using it for. I suspect the the oil pick up is running dry when the vehicle is at extreme angles.
The customer should run a mechanical oil pressure guage and also log oil pressure on ecu. Another bodge with the gasket and all the silicon, plus grinding the studs🤦♂️
Oh Dear Lee. Customer's with a little knowledge can really cause some problems for sure. Don't get me wrong there are some clever self taught people around Burt Munro for starters. Keep the videos coming.
It would have helped to have the oil filter to open up and see how much rubbish is in there and were the remote oil lines to the filter cleaned out after the first engine let go probably not! but I agree with what you said in your video oil starvation due to the poorly made gasket on the pickup, an oil pump would rather suck in air than oil, also a dry sump would have been a much better idea. Many years ago I worked for an engine re-conditioners and we sold short engines which consisted of rebuilt block, pistons, crank and cam shaft, most camshafts were in the block back then anyway we sold a little A series for a Midget about two week later the engine came back under warranty knocking badly customer claimed, we striped the filthy engine to find none of the parts he had removed from his old engine had been cleaned still a layer of sludge in the bottom of the sump he had evan reused the old filter and oil which was black there is no accounting for the stupidity of some people, when he returned he was shown the door very quickly.
Worth asking if he has an oil cooler too. if he has, then it's also likely to be full of debris, and ripe for destroying the next engine too.
Good point.
Was the gasket the main failure point?
😂😂😂😂
@@defresurrection
Ummm, did you watch and listen properly? If not go back and do it again.
@@michaelslee4336 Thanks for the fing help!
This a petrol or diesel engine?
Well for a start, the engine was tampered with after it left your shop.
For me, I would keep well away from it and tell the customer that he'll have to foot the bill (upfront) for any future works to the engine.
As long as he has a signed disclaimer absolutely no liability. The age long story... you try to help someone and...
Don't honour any kind of claim on this engine, he's pissed around with it so it's his problem from here onwards and that homemade gasket and the ground down bits are a major contribution to the damage. I can't get enough of these warranty stories,they beggar belief most of them, thanks for another great video 😊
Make your own gasket = cost saving.
@@forevercomputing Only if you’re _competent._
Note: self-evaluation of this quality is rarely accurate.
Mains bolts have been ground off in-situ, lol. They made a perfect grinding paste resulting in a new oil pump and the bearing damage. Yep the dodgy gasket will reduce the oil flow. The customer knows he dropped a clanger, that's why he's not blaming you.
I am not wise enough to know, but years ago we ran an Essex V6 in a light car with a front well sump, under hard acceleration it would briefly lose oil pressure. After one too many hard launches from the traffic lights the engine started to knock, it did nothing like this carnage. (We made a baffled sump when we fixed it).
I realise this engine had a home made pump gasket but chances are it was in one piece when fitted. I think you are right on the money, the swarf from the grinding did the pump in. It would be interesting to know if the original oil pump was damaged too. You have to wonder too whether the remote oil filter assembly was contaminated when it was fitted.
A shallow sump on a high revving engine may not be too clever if it has no windage tray and the pickup might have been far from optimal, a shallow sump with a stock pickup will encourage it to pickup crap that would otherwise sit in the bottom of the sump. Was the sump also "clearanced" with a grinder at the last minute?
TBH I think there are too many unknowns to reasonably uphold a warranty claim, the wrong viscosity oil is the least of the problems.
IMHO you can give a bit of "goodwill" but this engine was damaged by subsequent work, not by the original build......
guy was threatening legal action against his previous engine supplier, why would you take this customer on? high touch clients cost more than they're worth.
My thoughts exactly I suspect he buggered around with it when he got it back
@@gowdsake7103 Did he bugger around with the first engine, didn't learn his lesson, refitted old contaminated oil system parts and used his DIY skillz on to this engine and the same thing happened again.
No way would I warranty that engine.The customer has obviously tampered with the oiling system,which most likely caused the bottom end damage.Sorry but it's on the customer.
I've not got a problem with making your own gaskets in principle, maybe a thermostat gasket or at a push a water pump gasket, but on a critical joint where the oil and oil pressure are critical to engine longevity it just doesn't make sense to cobble up a gasket, and for it to be so poorly made, it was just asking for trouble...
funny how the bearing that spun is between the 2 ground stud's, id say it was grinding wheel dust/metal contamination.
if the studs needed grinding they should have been removed from the engine, never grind near an open engine, grind wheel dust is the worst thing to have inside an engine.
On top of that, reducing the height of the nut can reduce the tension it is capable of effecting on the bearing caps by reducing the grip length, it gets worse if an angle grinder has been used and the nut hasn't been retorqued afterwards.
He said that in the video.
I've heard several stories from older mechanics of valve grinding compound not being good either, when customers have annoyed mechanics in some way. From what I've heard if it's added in motor oil, it will run a while before anything odd turns up. Apparently it can't be traced back to the guy who did it either, but it's expensive revenge against the customer !
@@super6954 old retired mechanic here and never heard that one
@@davelead2742 I heard it about 30 years ago, from a couple guys that were in their late 60's then. I'm not sure how it would work with some modern filter technology now. But I can tell you I had a Russian tractor in here with a centrifugal oil filter. It had liner seals go bad so the guy dumped copper seal leak stopper in it being a cheap fix, It didn't fix the leak like he thought.
it dumped the coolant again a week later. on inspecting the sump contents I couldn't find the copper color trace in it like you'd see in coolant. when I opened the filter to clean it that's where the copper colored particles were in the carbon and slime in there. It had gone round with the oil/water mix inside the oil galleries/bearings and that filter got it all out.
It kind of makes me think the valve grinding compound would go round the same But the paper filter wouldn't get it all out as those centrifugal filters are far more accurate in what they take out and can tell you how hard an engines been working from carbon deposits between services that paper type won't show.
I'd love to see the sump he made/bought, was it baffled? .....and where did he put the pick up? if it's used in a trial car they get to all sort of mad angles, oil starvation , it should have been dry sumped.
I agree with you Dave, he should have dry sumped it, and that grinding dust must have gone everywhere, it certainly would not have helped those bearings/caps etc stay healthy ! the oil from the homemade sump described would not have been good and would've pooled the oil away from everything for too long a time inc' the oil pump leading to insufficient lubrication for too long !!
My thoughts exactly, the modified sump and baffles if any, to many unknowns I like "you broke it you bought it" your a business man you seem to already know the answer time for a divorce.
I
I would guess it has been sucking air, either from the crap gasket or due to the poor sump design (most likely cause). Even an oil pump with that much damage will produce good enough oil pressure. The debris damage is consequential in my opinion. I work on off highway engines and anything that needs gradeability (if wet sump) needs / gets a deep well sump. Another thing that would worry me is that the oil pick up pipe has a minimum distance from the sump bottom, beyond that flow can be messed up. And these are usually set close to minimum by design. Messing with the sump clearance would not be good. High level assessment... Would i expect a on highway engine to survive in a off highway application. No!!!. Not without modification. And a shallow sump is not one of those modifications
(1) I would ask the customer who did the grinding (2) also who replaced the oils pump as the gasket has blocking the flow of oil restricting the pressure so changing the pump and leaving the old gasket didn’t sort anything out. (3) who did all this work invalidated your warranty. (4) but as we have the engine in bits we can sort out the problem that’s occurred but in doing so do not accept any liability for damage caused by a third party. Great video it’s nice to see the engines coming in with these problems that have been worked on by so called mechanics. The customer has cocked up but to Embarrassed to admit it. 👍
100% warranty void.
Would be nice if you could fit some sort of warranty seal to all joints/gaskets to cover yourselfs in the event of silly claims.
Here in the usa junkyards do this. They use a metal tab I think made of some form of lead. The main point is to see if the engine overheated or was opened. I'm sure they could also just have custom metal warranty stickers made from silicone or another type of plastic . China sells all types of warranty stickers and are happy to make custom ones for not to much money.
@@linuxlinux9914 uv indelible ink. Wax seal.
After hearing 5w40 recomedation, all 0w18 cultists had a shitbrake...
And NO, your new toyota/honda does not have tighter bearing clearances, they are still 3-4/100 of mm for thermal expansion, no, honda/toyota did not cancel laws of physics. You are just being dupped in to beliving energy saving (0.4% VS engine saving oils 5w30 or 5w40) is good for you. It is energy saving allright, engine longevity be dammed.
Your hondas and toyotas drive just fine with, probably, something like 10w40 in OAE or in Saudi Arabia so tighter clearances argument is out of the door.
i place this on installer thick fuckery
As has been said before, MAKE SURE that a full disclaimer is included in both the estimate for the work, and subsequent bill, as you cannot be responsible for owner's installation, treatment & maintenance of your engines.
And having the decency of taking the engines back for inspection covers your backs, shows goodwill, and both you & the customer can learn from mistakes.
You can’t cover the engine when the sump and other parts are changed.
For my money the gasket is the main problem it is a lot easier to pull up air than oil.
The engine should always have been dry sump for that type of competition.
Good luck with it.
Off-road without dry-sump? Competition use, with owner making their own modifications while altering the configuration of the lubrication system? This isn't a warranty issue, it's a misuse issue.
The warranty you offer will be based on 'road-legal' use, on public highways. So all driving must be between kerb stones on tarmacked road surfaces at road legal speeds that exclude drag-racing from a standing stop, or "entertainment" loops at car meetings. Put another way, anything a vehicle insurer will cover them for on public roads.
The history to this situation is pretty obvious. Intermittent oil starvation and the use of light oil caused problems with the bearings while being run off-road. (O to 30 oil is only used by manufacturers to improve fuel efficiency.) It's probably why the engine got trashed at the dyno remapping gaff. He's trying to make the lubrication system do something that physics says can't happen. The customer needs to learn how important the lubrication system is, and how "DIY" attempts at trying to rewrite the laws of physics regarding liquid flowrates and viscosity seldom work. They now have made two attempts at 'designing' an oil recirculation solution that has failed both times. Dry sumping isn't cheap, but it would have been a whole lot cheaper than wrecking two engines - with likely a third on the way: the one they are using at the moment.
It looks like you have been caught up in a 'design solution' research project. No warranty issue here.
I worked in a machine shop for many years, with each reworked engine we supplied a sheet with running in instructions, the oil to use 'depending' on the engines application & supplied the oil, the onus is then the customer's to follow the instructions to the letter, and if not that was on their head, we also marked all sump & head bolts to deter tampering, and if the markings was found to be disturbed, warranty null and void, it's a minefield now and the reason we sold the business.
In the U.k. And the U.S. You couldnt void a warranty with taper indicating fasteners, not legally. There is the Magnusson moss act in the states and the consumer protection act in the uk. You could try and if the warranty claim was valid and the customer took you to court you would have to show how manipulating the hardware caused the issue. When the customer wins their case, like i said its a valid warranty claim, not only would you have to fulfil all warranty clauses but pay court fees and legal costs of the plaintiff. Even the stickers on consumer electronics that indicate manipulation have no value in court. A, it isnt 100% reliable B, there are nondestructive methods to open electronics C, the sticker doesnt affect functionality. Simply opening something does not break it and the courts in the US and UK have acknowledged this.
@@timothybayliss6680 Granted opening does not mean that it's what's caused the item to be defective, however, I would argue as to the persons abilities, would they have the knowledge to discern or diagnose an issue, & let's suppose it was found they was not, it could be argued as to why it was opened up in the first place, and if they was, why open the unit to then file a warranty claim when it would become impossible for anyone to discern if any tampering was the cause of the issue, and that my friend is why we sold up, the lawyers always get paid win or lose, but come on, opening and modifying parts that clearly should not be is the work of Sunday morning jim under his moggy minor he's been restoring since it was brand new & he's still trying to put it together after changing a flat tyre. Cracking channel by the way.
@@eatsinabeat the last time i had an engine "built" by a shop it pitched a keeper and twisted the oil pump drive during break in. Its probably a good thing it stopped making oil pressure because i shut it down right away. I took the pan off and found a keeper in the bottom.
How well do you think things would have gone for the shop if when i walked in with a picture if the valvespring with only one keeper on it and a twisted pump drive and keeper in my hand they told me that because i took the pan off that they werent going to warranty the build?
Whats is my responsibility here? It stops making oil pressure so i take it out of the vehicle and return the assembly to the shop? How much of my time do i have to invest? Installing the heads isnt terribly difficult but i cant remove the unit that has a malfunction without voiding the warranty either?
Even the inclusion of tamper indicators is potentially a violation of consumer protection act because it assumes that warranty protection is validated based on something that isnt causal to the failure. You make a claim that its Sunday morning Jim that is the one thats going to damage the package through inept modification. That fictional person isnt the customer base of a machine shop of this caliber. Most people involved in the hobby or profession arent grinding mains hardware to fit a pan. Most people that do this and would use this shop for service would know how to swap a cylinder head or pan without causing malfeasance. The evidence of this is the lack of spurious warranty claims.
Lack of oil pressure
Spun a rod bearing
That debris went through the system and chewed front and rear main journals……..
Simple - lack of oil pressure
Not your problem - racing application
Looks like signs of rust on the crank webs, any chance the oil got contaminated with water and he flushed engine before bringing it in?
The engine's been opened and messed with, walk away!
Can’t believe anyone would grind a stud with the sump open!! And surely if the issue was clearance then the sump would be in place whilst taking off the visible excess!!!! My money ( in the absence of anything more obvious - Would be air ingress from the poor oil pump seal. A decent slug of air in any high pressure hydraulic system usually results in no consistent pressure at all! Be it water, fuel or oil…. As for the original complaint of low pressure “ Shallow sump in a trials vehicle!! Is just asking for trouble!!! Even a standard sump on a Subaru track car can cause carnage when you add a bit of centrifugal force, , tip it on it’s side and you’re sure to be sucking air, there’s a reason why manufacturers exclude competition use from warranty claims, mechanical abuse, high revs and slow speed, total lack of mechanical sympathy and never getting the full story!!!!… to name but a few!!!!! 🙄
I'd ask to see the non standard sump .. if using the enging in a rock crawler, would need to have the sump baffled to maintain an oil level, for the oil pump.. when the engine is Running Hard at Stupid angles.. Just a Thought .. Or as you said a Dry Sump system would be so much better ... I'd show him the Current bill, for the works done to date, and give him a High repair price to have the work done.. Hopefully he will just scrap the engine and take it away from your shop..... Never to be seen again .. Andy Mac..
I would be interested to see the sump. Wonder if he is having pick up problems if it's that shallow he need to mod the bolts. Is there a pot on it for the pick up and how deep is it? Like you say. Big oil surge issues?
Put an engine on a dyno and already my brow is on its way up 😂
Admire your work but I’ve no idea why you’re taking on jobs like this. An engine that’s already been rebuilt and failed = red flag. An engine that the customers wanting to make their own sump and use for rallying = red flag.
Anything modified in the slightest I wouldn’t be touching considering how busy the engine machine places are around here doing standard car engine rebuilds. Just asking for grief surely working on modified old Cortinas 🤷🏻♂️
where is the Oil pan and the Pickup tube... i have run into many issues with poorly designed oil pump pickup tube and oil pickup screens.. the pickup not deep enough in the pan.. had one customer made oil pickup... that was made with perforated sheet metal. the holes were tiny and spaced too far apart unlike a screen with the holes the same size but only the thickness of the wire between the holes so there is a lots more surface area...
i also HATE flat oil pickup surface shapes.. i like a nice convex shape.. so there is a low pressure area of oil being pulled up.. a flat surface to the pickup screen or grill allows the oil to slide away leaving the pickup exposed. .
since he keeps bringing it back.. and it previously expired on the dyno.. something is wrong in the oiling system.. since the engine was rebuilt twice and the oil pump changed several times.. it leads to the Pickup /oil pan issues. excessively thin oil..
question.. have you ever set up an oil pump dynometer.. so you can check the flow rates and pressure at various pump speeds .. used to have an oil pump rebuilder in los angeles that would also take used oil pumps from warranty returns and flow /pressure test them for you..
i would really like you to measure the end gear clearance of the returned pump.. a JPaydirt on youtube ended up with a Peterbuilt dump truck with a Cummins N14 diesel.. pump specs were 4 to 8 thousands of an inch of gear to case end play.. all the replacement pumps and he went thru several trying to find a good one .. china from several brands.. even factory cummins were china pumps with 0.008" end play.. he had the pump housing lapped to take it down to .005 and ended his low pressure oil problems.. there was a video of another tuber building an N14.. washing the pump... the solvent went thru the pump so fast it was like going down a drain.
a comment i made on a Circle track or stock car racing magazine a bunch of years ago.. resulted in somebody reading it and on GM revamp of the LS1 the LT1.. they actually build a swiveling engine dyno.. that rotated the engine at various loads to angles that duplicated the forces changing the oil levels around in the pan during acceleration.. cornering and braking. check youtube for Chevy LT1 tilting Dyno.. i don't know if ford in europe has done like ford in america and replaced the oil pressure sending units with a reversed oil pressure switch... open contacts below 5 psi and closed above 7 to move the gauge up off zero part way..
if you end up building another one of these engines for that person.. weld some 6x1.0 nuts to the side of the oil pump pickup.. so the pickup can't be blocked by the oil pan being pulled up by an incorrect PCV system without a crankcase vent system.. without a crankcase vent system.. using a pcv only.. oil pans have been sucked up and blocked the oil pump pickup screen..
had a friend with a race Honda H22 ... insane build.. 14 to 1 compression drag race engine... had a Vacuum sump set up.. it sucked the front crank and aux shaft seals in.. had to find flanged seals.. and glue the rear main seal in place. ended up going to a GM electric smog pump... turned on as he lit the second stage light.. ran a vacuum/turbo boost gauge hooked up to his crankcase.. to make sure he did not over pressurize or over vacuum the crankcase.. causing issues.
thinking of that insane raspy honda.. i did a paper napkin drawing of a tuning tube that fit in at the 3 bolt collector after the flex joint.. it tapered the pipe diameter down from 2.5" to 1 3/4" and was almost a foot long. this increased the speed of the exhaust gasses after the collector.. at 7,000 RPM on the hub chassis dynos.. he went from 265 horse power to 275 by just installing the first try at a tuning tube.. also totally changed the way the car sounded. instead of sounding like a raspy honda.. it sounded like a healthy big block chevy. it was insane the difference a tuning tube caused. he had closed loop fuel injection also. so it could compensate for the change in scavenging on the engine and the change in manifold vacuum,
I think the best thing for that is throw it in the skip and tell him to collect it .
Theres ya problem buddy....mazda lol. Tell ya client hes lucky it ddnt have volvo written on it. Ive come across a rebuilt v8 scania that had a ground crank then reasembled with standard bearings! Durrr
I had an oil pressure problem on a v6 engine from an 1986 oldsmobile, it was modified for a jeep install, it turned out to be the thickness of the gasket being increased and the sump being elongated. Same damage too. Cork gasket was more than twice as thick as stock, I ended up making a gasket out of a phonebook cover and it worked for years.
Definitely not your fault.
It's obviously no fault of your company... But it also seems that the poor bloke has had no luck with that engine... As you already have the engine strip down I would offer to replace the bearing caps and do a dry sump conversion at cost for him... A bit of good will goes a long way plus he is parts of your local racing community and word-of-mouth goes a long way for a small business like your own
Engine has clearly been tampered with since you rebuilt it...advise customer on what you have found and why engine has failed...as it's been tampered no warranty claim....advise him you can rebuild at full cost or put it back together and give it back to him...
Grinding away material from the studs and nuts would surely change the torques plus heat and vibration, then add loads of lovley griding dust. Then then the oil starvation gasket, charge him for all your time and some.
Knuckle draggers and their "projects", don't we just love marvelling at their follies. Also once they've spent loads of money on good parts, and then screwed it all up, their "projects" can become cheap "spares or repair" for the rest of us.
Typical have a go motor sport enthusiast. When will people learn it costs £5k + for a full std. engine build and goes up from there👾
If you don't want to spend that money, buy a used unit and replace it when it goes pop
If you get low oil pressure warning, then you stop as soon as it is safe to do so. Then get it repaired! How long did he drive with no oil ? Never carry on and hope if fixes it self. If you know you have an oil problem and carry on, then it's your own fault when when it gets damaged. He should have brought it back and shown you the oil pressure problem, What exactly was he doing! driving at 45 deg off road with oil all at the wrong end of his sump? Was he using the wrong extra thin oil trying to get more power?
Did not c where u checked the size on your journals to c if u guys were off with your grinding calculations that's where oil pressure happens and Custer stated he never had good oil press. U know dam well that gasket isn't the cause not the grinding of those bolt heads. U should of torn down and checked as soon as he told u low oil pressure. Also u know the 0-30 oil was not the prob. Bottom line fix this man's engine.
Another dimwit customer that thinks he is a engineering genius.
That grinding dust definitely went into the engine, that's why the pump rotors look bad.
The gasket is a shocker. The crack would cause aeration and the overlap would cause cavitation also damaging the pump rotors.
This damage is all the customers own fault.
That’s what an engine looks like after Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck work on it engine after a professional rebuilds it, Why do they even bring it to you in the first place if their going to go in there and play master mechanic, Just smile tell him what’s wrong with it and that now he has an expensive boat anchor 😂
Over the years I have built a few engines, slapping together Nissan/Datsun A12/14 for my Datsun 1200 ute to a couple of stroked 355ci GM V8 not to mention all the sixes and motorbike engines. I'm an not a mechanic I'm a boilermaker by trade and now build guitar amps.
My point is some people need to just stay away from engine builds if they are not that technically minded. Manufacturers spend millions of dollars on R and D and typically know best, I just love the way some people seem to know better than the designers. But in this case dry sump warranted and proper gaskets plus recommended oil weight and someone who knows what they are doing.
Just read what you wrote and with all the POOR quality aftermarket parts out there it is near impossible for somebody who does know their trade to do a build. From bad lifters to bad valves, cams and springs. You should not have to machine "new" parts.
Rebuilding car engines are for mugs , with all the millions of cars on the road and the way todays cars are manufactured makes them disposable unfortunately, a bit like today's vacuum cleaners, I have rebuild engines myself, servicing is of course important however vintage cars are of more interest
When I sold turbochargers warranty was the worst part of any given day. People would pop a turbo, bolt a new one on, and pop the new one with all of the shrapnel from the old turbo and then demand warranty. As if it was in place for their mistakes. They rarely would figure out why the old turbo went bad then they would wonder why the new unit only lasted 6 months. It was MY fault every time of course.
Thats kind of what you get for tinkering. He literally fixed it until it was broken. There was nothing wrong with it. My Ford 4.0 has medium low pressure most of the time and it works just fine.
Tell them if it’s a modified engine for racing or any ather performance purposes no warranty,, unless all racing components are used dry sump , racing piston or at least Pro formants parts , then limited warranty,,, only warranty engine if it’s going into ordinary old public bangers,,
Man should learn to change his oil according to use & operating conditions. Shallow sump no matter how wide will limit peak oil pressure especially with stock oil pump🙏
When in this case an engine moves through different hands and possibly different levels of competence and modifications take place you are entering the lions dem, I can understand that you like engines that you have built and have failed to come back to you for analysis but how to attribute blame after the event is almost impossible.
yes, but by doing the forensic analysis he can PROVE it was not done in HIS SHOP.
the engines owner can track down who did what, but i'm betting he did it himself.
You're wasting your time with this type of customer. For instance, the pump gasket tells the story about him.
That cracked homemade oil pickup gasket would be more than enough for me to tell him to pound sand on any warranty.
i don't think you are doowing yourselves enny favours with all the comebacks you have posting on hear the odd one is ok but all the vids you make on customer's complaining on a shit rebuild dus not look good on the work you do and is just you looking to pass the blame on others
Would you ever let an engine that you had rebuilt at whatever cost to you be removed from your premises to take to another engine builder without being paid for your work
I've never seen a spun bearing due to particles they only spin through oil starvation and overheating I've pulled sumps off with an inch of carbon in them and big ends gone but never a spun one, the low pressure could be a relief valve faulty, 0w30 oil is like water when hot I don't like it at all you need high-pressure oil pumps to get the same protection with it 10 w 40 never had a problem with it, why was the pressure not checked when rebuilt the first time around, he said he wasn't happy with the oil pressure why keep driving it with low oil pressure numpty, the cooler will need cleaning out and all the pipes as well, Good advise DON'T GRIND INSIDE AN ENGINE FFS.
Has anyone checked the oil pick up pipe? you say the sump had been modified so the pick up may have modified also ? and if its been modified as badly as the other mods we have seen???
Looks like the customer is extracting the urine , a quick go forth and multiply should do the trick .
Looks like he had oil scavenging fault caused from the pick up gasket, don't realy think the studs caused anything apart from the obvious swarf issue
Seems to me the customer has messed about with it after it left the shop but hasn't got a clue and ballsed it up and now is trying to claim on warranty for his incompatence .
Not your problem that engine been missed round with them crank bolts been ground down and not the right oil in l it the oil pump been pissed round with no wonder is scrap probably had some stick are bet to
Modern engine won’t take a shallow sump off-roading. My 1958 landrover has a deep 5litre sump and it has HUGE big end bearings. (Like V8 journal width). As the engine guy said, “it’s not how often you run without oil, it’s how fast it makes pressure again.” (Basically how long before a big ends run dry) So you are spot on with dry sump, I did it to my Rover V8 and it is the right thing offroad. It sat at 28 to 40 psi all day no matter what stupid angle we had it Idling at. Basically the customer tried some tricks and they didn’t work out. (And the outcome seen appears to match the modifications mentioned) (as a weird engineering note; ironically you are better with a narrow sump that carries half the oil than wings that let it hide from the pickup)
You again? Are you following me?? Hahah hi from Milo's chat
@@JimLahey21 There’s probably only ten of us commenting on ‘engine in bits’ channels :D I bet you post on Binky and fabrats as well? ^-^
@@teamidris Struth mate you here also!
@@stephenhunter70 I can smell off-highway engine problems :o) It’s the combination of burnt oil and melted white metal :D
I'm with the above. I'm used to marine engines and they are specified with deeper sumps to make sure the pump has a chance to keep the suction submerged when the vessel rolls and pitches, which is basically what happens when you ride trail with a car. They can spent quite some time at odd angles in these stages. I would want to know what the suction arrangement for that lub oil pump is. Further does the owner intent to fit the same sump again/same use?
I wouldn't even bother with a warranty claim, hes been pissing about with it cocked it up and blaming you, chances are when he was grinding those bolts down iron filings went everwhere, also these mazdas need the correct sump and proper location of the filter, you said it was a remote filter which indicates it was piped off somewhere else well that alone will play havoc with pressures take a lot longer to run up to pressure even worse if he's using thin oil.
Shallow wide sump for a trial car...
Oh, and lets add some ground metal too !
I rearly don't think this job is for you , you look down in the dumps all the time , just look at the start of the vidio
Without there being enough oil for analysis, it's like trying to solve a crime with the most important evidence missing: the blood. On that point alone it means there's no evidence indicating your being responsible.
Can't tamper with the internals after a rebuild and get a warranty when it rattles.. simple. Soon as you separate that rocker or head it's over to you. ( Unless qualified )
So totally agree with you.
The dangers of the hobbiest touching an engine or taking it elsewhere after its rebuild is like Thornton's selling a bag of used Toffees... No chance
be worth you looking into security seals must be a way to install under a bolt or connect two together < heads or oil pans>
Very interesting. Thanks for sharing
Just tell him that you are sorry for his misfortune and how much it will cost him to make the engine right.
If you go and buy a drill and unscrew one screw on it, then there goes it's warranty.
I have to ask why did you even get involved with an engine someone else rebuilt wasting your time
My guess is a sex aid of some kind. If it's a nut or bolt I will be disappointed
These guessing videos do not clear any thing up especially regarding the title.
the split gasket would of been sucking air and theres ya loss of oil pressure
They are taking the piss, modified your work so no warranty on this m8
Give the engine back to him along with a bill for inspection report.
If they used a grinder the disc on grinder produces a lot of abrasive dust
Looks like a sump problem plus obvious gasket and bolt grinding
We do rebulit engine in my garage , we wouldn't rebulit the engine again unless he pays again, I grantee you from experience he most likely won't accept again, but you car try to help him by offering him discounted price...
Good Luck
Total crazy why do these people mess around with engines
Then you would find more in the bottom of sump or drain plug.
Even if he paid you....its got problem written all over it now.id avoid.
I'm glad we are not the only ones who deal with these muppets :D
Seems like more often than not, the customer is their own worst enemy.
Looks like the customer fudged that motor himself.
i would wont to see sump & pick-up. prime place to look when these items get diy'ed
I like your videos. I am an old mechanic from the US. I would never, ever let someone walk out of my shop with an incomplete engine. In fact, I always made sure we installed any engine rebuild in the car before we let it leave. In addition, I would insist as a condition of warranty that they return the car for inspection and oil change after 2000 miles. There is just so much that can go wrong as evidenced by the warranty claims I have seen here. help me understand why you do that, you must have a good reason as you seem to be a very smart guy.
Do what I do, warranty nothing. I only promise ill do my best work for the customer, if that's not good enough, let them go elsewhere. You never have full control of the engine/installation/run in/driving/maintenance.
Just say bluntly what you think what has happened. Be honest and say what you can do for a honest price. If the customer leave then that's his take. If the customer is smart he will say: go on with the job and phone me when it's ready.
Important: just say in the start of the conversation bluntly what your investigation came up with. Don't be diplomatic on an English way.
Catalogue of errors by customer which your not responsible for
First up, this is a great channel and your an excellent presenter, second, this engine failure is not your problem as I see it. 🇳🇿
Hah why would you not just unscrew the stud?!
Great video. There is a difference between oil pressure and volume . No worries with pressure but suffering from lack of volume
Wrong pan will suffocate the pump
There is not really a difference. Pressure is an effect of volume. If you have insufficient volume you will never achieve adequate pressure. Pressure is the effect of restriction against the volume of the liquid being moved. Lower the volume and you lower the pressure. Increase the volume and you increase the pressure. Change the viscosity of the liquid and you have to change the volume being moved to maintain the same pressure. Either increase the volume for a thinner liquid or decrease for a thicker liquid. The preceding applies to loss lubrication systems such as the oiling system in an engine. Closed systems the preceding may not apply.
I don't get the idea he is trying to pull one over.
I think I would be asking to see the sump …
Is it even the same engine he's given you to look at?
i dont agree it was the spec of the oil . more like the sump he made for it lacks capacity , i do agree a dry sump system is required . also the oil presure relief valve needs to be checked . the split in the gasket would not help but i dont think its the cause at all . the bearing spun because it got hot due to low pressure and not due from the grinding of the bolts
New Car, 0W16 added from factory and everything is peachy, the owner was doing something horrible with that engine it was not designed to do.
Thanks for watching Nakatsu 👍
The costumer is always right round the bend in this case probably a friend said to him we can mode this for next to nothing and that won’t he has now
I think you did the right thing taking it back and checking it out. I suspect it is a combination of the problems you mentioned. The flat sump may not be suitable for the highly angled terrain he is using it for. I suspect the
the oil pick up is running dry when the vehicle is at extreme angles.
The customer should run a mechanical oil pressure guage and also log oil pressure on ecu. Another bodge with the gasket and all the silicon, plus grinding the studs🤦♂️
Oh Dear Lee.
Customer's with a little knowledge can really cause some problems for sure.
Don't get me wrong there are some clever self taught people around Burt Munro for starters.
Keep the videos coming.
That "gasket" is bloody horrible.
As for grinding the studs in situ...😱
It would have helped to have the oil filter to open up and see how much rubbish is in there and were the remote oil lines to the filter cleaned out after the first engine let go probably not! but I agree with what you said in your video oil starvation due to the poorly made gasket on the pickup, an oil pump would rather suck in air than oil, also a dry sump would have been a much better idea. Many years ago I worked for an engine re-conditioners and we sold short engines which consisted of rebuilt block, pistons, crank and cam shaft, most camshafts were in the block back then anyway we sold a little A series for a Midget about two week later the engine came back under warranty knocking badly customer claimed, we striped the filthy engine to find none of the parts he had removed from his old engine had been cleaned still a layer of sludge in the bottom of the sump he had evan reused the old filter and oil which was black there is no accounting for the stupidity of some people, when he returned he was shown the door very quickly.