The old magen could actually be useful both defensively and offensively with the Letani Behemoth. Kind of funny that when a new GF with planetary shields is introduced the new magen replaces "planetary shield" with "structure" in its wording to prevent it being used more effectively.
Maybe the thing that is nice with magen and mechs now is that you can build a spacedock, without needing a pds for planetary shield, and still get a hit on invaders with magen (now an automatic one), so your forward spacedock system is rather strong and wellfortified quickly with construction secondary. Your mech + spacedock is essentially a better spacedock and a better pds + it punches in ground combat as well ... It should also open op for pumping out alot of fighter support, so going carrier II is even better ... Build space docks before POK with Arborec must have been kinda silly, now not so much i think
Good timing for me! These updates for the original factions are great and I appreciate the info about the codex cards. I'm glad there is a lot more Rulebreaker updates in the pipeline with this new series.
I think this is actually a rather significant buff. Sarween gives them essentially a 0 cost carrier or a 2-cost dreadnought every round. Plus, every turn that I'm not maxed on 4 mechs, I'm getting one of those for free also. It essentially gives them a free 4 resources a round, which really helps with their slow early game.
Can you actually just drop in the mech? I thought that it had to replace an infantry you already had? Or is it just replacing the infantry which you would have otherwise placed?
@@Syraphym Fair enough. Still good, just not AS good. Plus, it's not limited to being on a planet - so you could buff units mid-flight on a carrier. I'm not sure if I'd max out my mechs with it though. i might keep 1-2 in reserve to be able to be built via space station.
Another interesting review. I really enjoy listening to you pronounce the names of the leaders! Some comments seem to think the Arborec are NOT very powerful. Hmmm . . . .
In a game where getting "dead" tech is just straight up bad for you (techs that dont help you in anyway) the Arborec obviously start with a red, where their main thing is infantry. That is completely the opposite direction. Their two advantages are the fact that they can produce at the front, and that they will have more infantry than most other factions. But because they are so slow, they cant get on planets before people, then its a situation of having to get your massive stacks of infantry onto planets, and without the techs like I talked about earlier (mainky Carrier II) the most you can bring is only 4 infantry. Infantry factions work well with mobility, Arborec doesnt have that, therefore they are not good. If you are thinking they are, then its probably a gaming group bias (your group plays differently to how the majority play) which is not a bad thing, its just if you go on TTS, and play the same way, you more than likely will get gutted. Thanks for the video, really appreciate going through all of it. Saying everything Ive said, I really want to find something that will make Arborec work well, Im thinking something like Bio Stims, with AIDA and then as many upgrades as possible so you can produce massive amounts of plastic for discounted rates, but Im still theory crafting
You seem to know our stuff and I am not arguing with you on the mobility side at all. It is very possible that my group plays differently to others, and we are by no means elite players. We play often and there are some factions that *never* win and others that get past the line in front. The Arborec have won multiple times with multiple players, so they are definitely one of the best performing factions for us. There is so much that goes into a game of TI, whether that's deals, action card draws, agenda phase outcomes, other factions and players going for each others' throats... For whatever reason, they do well when I'm playing. I see it a lot. I think a slow start in TI is not necessarily terrible either. being in first place at the midpoint is usually a bad sign as everyone gangs up on you, but being in the pack, second or third, while growing... that works well in TI in what I've seen, and the Arborec are great at that. Again - different groups will play in different ways. Would be curious to hear what you think are the best factions. Sol, Jol-Nar? Anyone else?
@@RulebreakerBoardgames to preface all of this, I'm talking from a 6 player perspective, which around the community and high-level scene is seen as the default amount of players. Not saying that anyone who plays other player counts is wrong, in fact I've played quite a few 4 player games recently and had heaps of fun. In the base game, there is lots of tech objectives prevalence, Jol Nar is very strong, just because they score those tech ones so easily, they obviously lack in the control objectives but the fact they can score those so easily which others really struggle to do, like compare Jol Nar with Sardak Norr, it's not even a competition. Sol is good but kinda predictable since everyone knows exactly what they are doing. I think the strongest single ability for scoring is the Naulu "0" token, because you can stay in the pack and have no pressure to pick in the last round based on scoring order, you just score first. Clan of Saar is a honourable mention here, because of the way they can never be stopped scoring public objectives. Going back to Arborec now. I have done heaps of thinking about them, and their tech tree just doesn't pan out, I wish that Nekro and Arborec's starting tech was swapped, that would help just because its a green. Because they start with a red, and then never really want to go down red again, their faction techs are obviously both green (not to mention their non-upgrade faction tech which is in the same spot as Hyper Metabolism) All the infantry factions (Sol, Yin, even Winnu to a degree) have ways (Winnu's case a tiny way XD) to get to planets quickly and then hold them. Because Arborec is so slow and doesn't have anything to help them do that, most of the time, by the time you get close, you are bottlenecked to your capacity in order to attack new planets. In POK they had a minor buff to their start, but they still slow. All of their leaders are about producing units, without knowing if you can even get them. Yes trade goods are more available but that means there are more trade goods for everyone. I saw a really good comment here saying the Arborec are like the Saar but worse in every way and that's true, their whole thing is they can produce on the front, but Saar already does that.
@@KingScal64 I think you're wrong about not wanting to go red again. Both A.I. Development Algorithm and Self Assembly Routines work very well with an Arborec strategy.
@@JayChampagne Going down Red is obviously one tech path you can take, but considering it doesn't help you move your troops around, its less advisable to go down it. The obvious upgrades that you get for going down red are PDS II, Destroyer II and then War Sun, I love Destroyer II, but the other two upgrades I like significantly less. War Sun is interesting sure, you can build it whenever someone attacks you (in POK) But before you get a war sun on the board you are atuck with 1 movement dreads and carriers, I need to test everything out, but overall going down red just seems that while it helps you in fighting space battles, it still doesnt solve your need for consistent mobility. Thanks for bringing it up though, I need to explain my reasoning when I make statements like "you dont want to go down red" so thanks again :)
@@JayChampagne Also, their mechs are kinda broken, I'm going to sound like Im copying SCPT but their mechs seem like they were designed to work with old Magen as opposed to new omega Magen. If their mechs were also structures I could see them be significantly better.
I think the most impactful changes for the Arborec are as follows (haven't played them yet in post-PoK era): Early game- the agent allows you to convert your destroyer to a carrier on Turn 1, giving the player much needed mobility and expansion options Mid game- Mitosis & the Mech allows free mech placement which can then pump out additional units where you need them Late game- Assuming abundant resources or TGs, the Hero allows you to saturate your slice with plastic, which can alter the calculus of control objectives, production objectives or possibly threaten MR itself I agree that the PN has been reworked to become something useful, but is probably more situational than it appears. Thanks again for these vids!🖖
i am really new to the game but these guys seem like a lot of fun, but they seem like it would tae quite some experience to play correctly, is that actually the case?
I think most factions require some experience for you to be very proficient with them. Arborec are probably somewhere in the middle of complexity, in my opinion. Once you understand the way they use Production, you should be okay. That's the main weird thing with them.
One of the best factions in the game? Curious to hear the reasoning behind that. Every pre-POK tier ranking I’ve ever seen placed them dead at the bottom with Winnu, and the initial community consensus seems to be that POK makes them somewhat more playable, but doesn’t shake things up enough to bump them out of the basement. What is everyone else missing?
@@RulebreakerBoardgames Any competent opponent won't allow them to get started. They are super easy to stop and their production doesn't give them an economic boost. They still need the cash.
@@Lukec141 Every faction is the worst faction when you presuppose a militant neighbor dropping pursuit of every objective to buzzsaw you to death in the first five turns--being that singularly aggressive is a good way to lose the game though. Which is ironically (or appropriately?) a thing that competent opponents who ARE playing for points will massively punish you for, afterward. [spends all tactical tokens to steamroll arborec first thing as Sol or whatever] [L1Z1x caps out on dreadnoughts, Letnev gets multiple tiles to their fleet cap] [everyone has triggered multiple strategic secondaries except for you, who is making high profile tactical actions] Ah beans. I wish I had a friend on the board, right now!!!
@@JennyTomg yeah my thoughts exactly, any time someone goes too aggressive in my games no one will team up with them mostly because they're pseudo seeing how weak they're becoming to gut them 🤣
@@JennyTomg Never said anything about early aggression. Not trading with arborec means they struggle to use their production limit effectively. There's so many ways arborec is sadly lacking: Rubbish first tech, with no easy path Poor start, which while fixed by the agent means they lose their crusier and their agent slot. So in the aggregate they still have a worse start than the 2C 4I factions with a bonus agent. Promissory note is decent but incredibly situational. Home system means you can't afford technology round 1 without help. Meta heat, as people know they can (althougu seldom do) snowball.
I really need you to go over the ghost of creuss!!! Primarily, emissary taivra leader and icarus trive paired with singularity reactor. I don't understand taivra's usefulness. Does the icarus drive mech and the singularity drive mean you can move another players home world to a new location????
Thanks. This does make them better, but I'm not sure by very much. Their issue isn't really production, it is affording to produce. So, like you said, trade goods would be huge for them.
Agent for me it's almost like 2 extra trade goods every round, just one turn later. And it have big advantages: surprise element and increased mobility. You can move cruiser a faster then dred, then just morph it to dred. Also it's cheapest carrier in the game if it's morphed from destroyer.
@@RulebreakerBoardgames Yeah, they are always in the bottom tier in our group. Alot of that is their slow start (which seems to have been addressed). Their codex prom note is improved, but they still kinda suffer from great production but they are very reliant on having the resources to produce so much. I think they are better, but everyone got better to various degrees. I'm not sure they improved enough.
I just won today with Arborec. If you can get MR and build a PDS there plus get your mechs in, they will never purge you out from there. They need to build the green top tech. (x89 biological weapon) but not really many people focuses that as I read. I simply hoarded the imperial and scored 2 every round.
X89 Bacterial Weapon is much better if you use the new codex version, where it is no longer an ACTION to use it. However, saying that, Mechs are not affected by it, so you should probably always have a couple of mechs on MR in each game now to keep this strategy alive.
Starting a game as the Arborec next week. thanks for the video's - this + Sarween tools to save me some money on builds should go a long way.
The old magen could actually be useful both defensively and offensively with the Letani Behemoth. Kind of funny that when a new GF with planetary shields is introduced the new magen replaces "planetary shield" with "structure" in its wording to prevent it being used more effectively.
Hmmm, maybe you're right
Maybe the thing that is nice with magen and mechs now is that you can build a spacedock, without needing a pds for planetary shield, and still get a hit on invaders with magen (now an automatic one), so your forward spacedock system is rather strong and wellfortified quickly with construction secondary. Your mech + spacedock is essentially a better spacedock and a better pds + it punches in ground combat as well ... It should also open op for pumping out alot of fighter support, so going carrier II is even better ... Build space docks before POK with Arborec must have been kinda silly, now not so much i think
Good timing for me! These updates for the original factions are great and I appreciate the info about the codex cards. I'm glad there is a lot more Rulebreaker updates in the pipeline with this new series.
Glad you like the channel. Lots and lots of content to come, not just TI stuff too.
I think this is actually a rather significant buff. Sarween gives them essentially a 0 cost carrier or a 2-cost dreadnought every round. Plus, every turn that I'm not maxed on 4 mechs, I'm getting one of those for free also. It essentially gives them a free 4 resources a round, which really helps with their slow early game.
Can you actually just drop in the mech? I thought that it had to replace an infantry you already had? Or is it just replacing the infantry which you would have otherwise placed?
@@DarthRadical It does just replace the infantry instead of getting one for free, but with Arborec you'll usually have infantry to spare.
@@Syraphym Fair enough. Still good, just not AS good. Plus, it's not limited to being on a planet - so you could buff units mid-flight on a carrier.
I'm not sure if I'd max out my mechs with it though. i might keep 1-2 in reserve to be able to be built via space station.
On the Mech you replace an infantry on the board with a Mech instead of placing an infantry.
Another interesting review. I really enjoy listening to you pronounce the names of the leaders! Some comments seem to think the Arborec are NOT very powerful. Hmmm . . . .
I have seen them win frequently. I think they're pretty good!
In a game where getting "dead" tech is just straight up bad for you (techs that dont help you in anyway) the Arborec obviously start with a red, where their main thing is infantry. That is completely the opposite direction. Their two advantages are the fact that they can produce at the front, and that they will have more infantry than most other factions. But because they are so slow, they cant get on planets before people, then its a situation of having to get your massive stacks of infantry onto planets, and without the techs like I talked about earlier (mainky Carrier II) the most you can bring is only 4 infantry.
Infantry factions work well with mobility, Arborec doesnt have that, therefore they are not good. If you are thinking they are, then its probably a gaming group bias (your group plays differently to how the majority play) which is not a bad thing, its just if you go on TTS, and play the same way, you more than likely will get gutted.
Thanks for the video, really appreciate going through all of it. Saying everything Ive said, I really want to find something that will make Arborec work well, Im thinking something like Bio Stims, with AIDA and then as many upgrades as possible so you can produce massive amounts of plastic for discounted rates, but Im still theory crafting
You seem to know our stuff and I am not arguing with you on the mobility side at all. It is very possible that my group plays differently to others, and we are by no means elite players. We play often and there are some factions that *never* win and others that get past the line in front. The Arborec have won multiple times with multiple players, so they are definitely one of the best performing factions for us. There is so much that goes into a game of TI, whether that's deals, action card draws, agenda phase outcomes, other factions and players going for each others' throats... For whatever reason, they do well when I'm playing. I see it a lot. I think a slow start in TI is not necessarily terrible either. being in first place at the midpoint is usually a bad sign as everyone gangs up on you, but being in the pack, second or third, while growing... that works well in TI in what I've seen, and the Arborec are great at that. Again - different groups will play in different ways. Would be curious to hear what you think are the best factions. Sol, Jol-Nar? Anyone else?
@@RulebreakerBoardgames to preface all of this, I'm talking from a 6 player perspective, which around the community and high-level scene is seen as the default amount of players. Not saying that anyone who plays other player counts is wrong, in fact I've played quite a few 4 player games recently and had heaps of fun.
In the base game, there is lots of tech objectives prevalence, Jol Nar is very strong, just because they score those tech ones so easily, they obviously lack in the control objectives but the fact they can score those so easily which others really struggle to do, like compare Jol Nar with Sardak Norr, it's not even a competition. Sol is good but kinda predictable since everyone knows exactly what they are doing. I think the strongest single ability for scoring is the Naulu "0" token, because you can stay in the pack and have no pressure to pick in the last round based on scoring order, you just score first. Clan of Saar is a honourable mention here, because of the way they can never be stopped scoring public objectives.
Going back to Arborec now.
I have done heaps of thinking about them, and their tech tree just doesn't pan out, I wish that Nekro and Arborec's starting tech was swapped, that would help just because its a green. Because they start with a red, and then never really want to go down red again, their faction techs are obviously both green (not to mention their non-upgrade faction tech which is in the same spot as Hyper Metabolism) All the infantry factions (Sol, Yin, even Winnu to a degree) have ways (Winnu's case a tiny way XD) to get to planets quickly and then hold them. Because Arborec is so slow and doesn't have anything to help them do that, most of the time, by the time you get close, you are bottlenecked to your capacity in order to attack new planets.
In POK they had a minor buff to their start, but they still slow. All of their leaders are about producing units, without knowing if you can even get them. Yes trade goods are more available but that means there are more trade goods for everyone.
I saw a really good comment here saying the Arborec are like the Saar but worse in every way and that's true, their whole thing is they can produce on the front, but Saar already does that.
@@KingScal64 I think you're wrong about not wanting to go red again. Both A.I. Development Algorithm and Self Assembly Routines work very well with an Arborec strategy.
@@JayChampagne Going down Red is obviously one tech path you can take, but considering it doesn't help you move your troops around, its less advisable to go down it. The obvious upgrades that you get for going down red are PDS II, Destroyer II and then War Sun, I love Destroyer II, but the other two upgrades I like significantly less. War Sun is interesting sure, you can build it whenever someone attacks you (in POK) But before you get a war sun on the board you are atuck with 1 movement dreads and carriers, I need to test everything out, but overall going down red just seems that while it helps you in fighting space battles, it still doesnt solve your need for consistent mobility.
Thanks for bringing it up though, I need to explain my reasoning when I make statements like "you dont want to go down red" so thanks again :)
@@JayChampagne Also, their mechs are kinda broken, I'm going to sound like Im copying SCPT but their mechs seem like they were designed to work with old Magen as opposed to new omega Magen. If their mechs were also structures I could see them be significantly better.
Good lord that mega build....
Could you please make a video to go over the contents of the Codex?
Yeah, I will do a Codex overview after the faction videos.
I think the most impactful changes for the Arborec are as follows (haven't played them yet in post-PoK era):
Early game- the agent allows you to convert your destroyer to a carrier on Turn 1, giving the player much needed mobility and expansion options
Mid game- Mitosis & the Mech allows free mech placement which can then pump out additional units where you need them
Late game- Assuming abundant resources or TGs, the Hero allows you to saturate your slice with plastic, which can alter the calculus of control objectives, production objectives or possibly threaten MR itself
I agree that the PN has been reworked to become something useful, but is probably more situational than it appears. Thanks again for these vids!🖖
Good analysis, in theory. Would love to hear more when you've played them!
They start with a cruiser t1
i am really new to the game but these guys seem like a lot of fun, but they seem like it would tae quite some experience to play correctly, is that actually the case?
I think most factions require some experience for you to be very proficient with them. Arborec are probably somewhere in the middle of complexity, in my opinion. Once you understand the way they use Production, you should be okay. That's the main weird thing with them.
One of the best factions in the game? Curious to hear the reasoning behind that. Every pre-POK tier ranking I’ve ever seen placed them dead at the bottom with Winnu, and the initial community consensus seems to be that POK makes them somewhat more playable, but doesn’t shake things up enough to bump them out of the basement. What is everyone else missing?
I don't understand why people are so down on them. I've seen them win a lot. Once they start multiplying they can get wildly out of control.
@@RulebreakerBoardgames Any competent opponent won't allow them to get started.
They are super easy to stop and their production doesn't give them an economic boost. They still need the cash.
@@Lukec141 Every faction is the worst faction when you presuppose a militant neighbor dropping pursuit of every objective to buzzsaw you to death in the first five turns--being that singularly aggressive is a good way to lose the game though. Which is ironically (or appropriately?) a thing that competent opponents who ARE playing for points will massively punish you for, afterward.
[spends all tactical tokens to steamroll arborec first thing as Sol or whatever]
[L1Z1x caps out on dreadnoughts, Letnev gets multiple tiles to their fleet cap]
[everyone has triggered multiple strategic secondaries except for you, who is making high profile tactical actions]
Ah beans. I wish I had a friend on the board, right now!!!
@@JennyTomg yeah my thoughts exactly, any time someone goes too aggressive in my games no one will team up with them mostly because they're pseudo seeing how weak they're becoming to gut them 🤣
@@JennyTomg Never said anything about early aggression.
Not trading with arborec means they struggle to use their production limit effectively.
There's so many ways arborec is sadly lacking:
Rubbish first tech, with no easy path
Poor start, which while fixed by the agent means they lose their crusier and their agent slot. So in the aggregate they still have a worse start than the 2C 4I factions with a bonus agent.
Promissory note is decent but incredibly situational.
Home system means you can't afford technology round 1 without help.
Meta heat, as people know they can (althougu seldom do) snowball.
Yes, I agree the Arborec were one of the stronger races and are now among the best. Great video!
Thanks! I like them a lot, personally.
If you use diplomacy on a system does the commander ability fire once for every player or just once?
That's not an activation.
I really need you to go over the ghost of creuss!!!
Primarily, emissary taivra leader and icarus trive paired with singularity reactor.
I don't understand taivra's usefulness.
Does the icarus drive mech and the singularity drive mean you can move another players home world to a new location????
Ghosts are actually up next, already filmed!
@@RulebreakerBoardgames TY!!!
Thanks. This does make them better, but I'm not sure by very much. Their issue isn't really production, it is affording to produce. So, like you said, trade goods would be huge for them.
Just my thoughts! The Commander is pretty underwhelming in my opinion.
Agent for me it's almost like 2 extra trade goods every round, just one turn later. And it have big advantages: surprise element and increased mobility. You can move cruiser a faster then dred, then just morph it to dred. Also it's cheapest carrier in the game if it's morphed from destroyer.
@@grzegorzowczarek3016 True, and It does solve their Round 1 issue of only 1 carrier
I think they can be very strong. Very interested in how people are perceiving them as weak, as that's not my experience at all.
@@RulebreakerBoardgames Yeah, they are always in the bottom tier in our group. Alot of that is their slow start (which seems to have been addressed). Their codex prom note is improved, but they still kinda suffer from great production but they are very reliant on having the resources to produce so much.
I think they are better, but everyone got better to various degrees. I'm not sure they improved enough.
This besides Winnu, is hands down the best buff to a race thus far out of the original races.
You think? I actually already liked the Arborec before.
Mech is END of status phase you REPLACE an already existing infantry - your vid was in error on both accounts btw. Anyways LOVE your vids thanks.
I just won today with Arborec. If you can get MR and build a PDS there plus get your mechs in, they will never purge you out from there. They need to build the green top tech. (x89 biological weapon) but not really many people focuses that as I read. I simply hoarded the imperial and scored 2 every round.
X89 Bacterial Weapon is much better if you use the new codex version, where it is no longer an ACTION to use it. However, saying that, Mechs are not affected by it, so you should probably always have a couple of mechs on MR in each game now to keep this strategy alive.
ty for the link
Saar does pretty much everything Arborec can, but better...
sad faction
The one thing that Arborec does better than Saar is not get banned.