Got that sweet, sweet Patreon support locked in! Been loving your content and energy, and it's both educating me and motivating me to revisit a game I didn't finish for ludum dare earlier this year!
This stuff looks advanced. Great work. At the moment I make only simple games, so I can only try to imagine how hard this Voxel thing is. Congrats on making it work. Keep up the good work ;) - Dan
I am making a voxel game in Bevy too, what I do is I have a .draw() method on my Chunk struct, that returns a Bevy Mesh, and then I draw it with PbrBundle.
The progress is very cool! I see that the mesh generation is a bit slow, I noticed that you're using hash map structures, and I was wondering if it would be possible to avoid those, since they cause a lot of memory cache misses (especially if you have very large ones). Or maybe having a lot of smaller ones so they fit inside the L2/L1 caches would be enough!
Nice video! Might I suggest making your voiceover track mono in future uploads? Something about the phase of your mic makes it really hard (personally) to listen to with headphones. Cheers!
Do you need some kind of hysteresis, so if you step back and forward over the edge of one area you're not constantly loading and unloading the same boundary tiles?
like, you are in area B, next to areas A and C, so you have ABC loaded. you move from B to C, so it unloads A and loads D so you have BCD loaded. then you step back from C to B and it unloads D and loads A to give you ABC again. then you make one step forward again - back to BCD... so you need to have a sensibly wide boundary where it doesn't change anything so you don't get this thrash
Like some other commenters, I notice that you're using hashmaps to keep track of things. I don't know if they are a performance bottleneck for you, but did you know that the default hashing algorithm used by Rust hashmaps is slow? You can replace the hashing function with a crate like FxHasher, and net performance gains from a simple find/replace :) (The default hashing algorithm is slow because it was chosen to be DDOS-resistant, but for graphics code that doesn't matter.)
If you're still looking for something to do with the LOD misalignment you can look into adapting the surface shifting technique described in the Transvoxel paper in ch 4
Bevy has been so interesting to work in. I've been working on a multiplayer FPS similar to Quake Arena using GGRS for networking. When Bevy works, oh boy it's so nice. Writing a system that just does what it needs to is so awesome. When things don't work tho...it's... interesting
Ray Tracing looks great in voxel games, I would love to see you implement ray traced (software-based of course because of your GPU) lighting/shadows/GI etc as an option!
@@thefurry7165 all rendering is software-based because you need to write software to run on the GPU. I think this term is not good to be used, unfortunately. GPU rendering is a better term overall.
@@patrykszewczuk8741 since its a voxel game, some simple raytracing can be done on the cpu, however if you want it super realistic a gpu is needed yes. Also don't quote me on this I'm not 100% certain
@@patrykszewczuk8741 op probably meant implementing ray tracing without relying on hardware ray tracing cores that are exclusive to modern NVIDIA and AMD gpus, like how Teardown and Minecraft shaders do it
you can probably force your world preview to be behind your voxel mesh in shader code by adding some offset before writing to the depth buffer, but i know neither bevy or rust, so that could be hard to do
Your VisitStatus type looks oddly similar to what you return in a Future, I wonder if async can be used with a helper crate to simplify the loading and rendering pipeline for chunks
This project speaks to me! Do you know if criterion take data allocation into consideration for its benchmarks? I think you could save some cycles by considering the data allocations at 1:00 (its seems to me that the positions could be placed on the heap, (*edited*) thus accessed linearly by the computer). Do you have any profiling exempels uploaded? Note: Im a bevy rockie, have never used a game engine and do not condone premature optimization ;)
Level of detail is ideally done with octrees, that way you can have massive render distances. In your current setup, it seems you still keep the same sized chunks?
Do you think octrees could be applicable in a voxel engine that does not use ray tracing? I've been reading online in many places saying that it isn't necessary, but in those cases, level of detail is not implemented I believe...
Octrees are not often a good solution for visual LoD because you can only scale detail by a factor of 2. They're mostly useful only as an implementation detail for large volumes with low entropy. For LoD, a good approach (and one that we use in Veloren) is to artifically stretch the LoD mesh in the vertex shader such that more detail naturally appears close to the camera and this detail reduces gradually with distance from the camera.
@@Tantandev Yep. I've written voxel engines with rasterisation and octrees to store the data. That way you can have exponentially larger chunks as the chunks aren't all the same size in the world. It's a lot of work however to get it all working, so it isn't something one should take lightly.
@@jsbarretto I'm not sure I understand your approach. How do you start with the LoD mesh in the first place that you are to stretch? and what does stretching even entail to add more detail? Is there an article that I could read?
I'm trying to port my wip game to bevy, since i love rust but it seems there is no easy and nice way to do something like nested assets where you have a filepath to an asset inside another one.
Like a compressed file? Or more like a giant blob of data like a .pkg or .dat file? Unsure if thats supported out of the box, however you can certainly write your own handler for it. Shouldn't be that difficult even
wow, after those rendering improvments the game looks soooo good. I have a few questions though. Based on the video I saw that you use bevy renderer but write shaders yourself. Is that true? What are the benefits of writing them. And second one, how long does your project compile? I'm getting pretty annoyed at how slow my projects compile but maybe it's normal...
@@maxplayerone9565 for that reason I recommend setting up wsl2, with pulseaudio and a windows x server. It can be quite a bit of work, but it works great ^^
It's insane to me that you first thought of implementing the thing yourself instead of immediately scavenging around for an existing implementation of anything close enough to your needs
The suggestions are absolutely crazy and if implemented would probably hurt the rust community in a very noticable way. So I'm not a big fan... Luckily ThePrimeagen, GamesFromScratch and Theo have all spoken up
The reality is that everyone's first videos will 99% chance be garbage, and that's fine because you won't get good until you have failed many times. We are all scared of judgment, looking like a fool etc... But everyone who has achieved success have all looked like fools at some point. 2 books that personally have helped me overcome fear/procrastination: 1. war of art 2. do the work. Both are written by steven pressfield. Actually check out some of his interviews on YT, pretty dope :)
The lod where you double the size of the blocks (the one at the end of your vid and outlined in that one 0fps blog post) looks pretty bad IMO. Surely you've seen lots of screen shots of implementations at this point. While it makes sense from a technical perspective. I've never seen an implementation of it that doesnt fuck with your sense of scale and distance. I really wanted to see the height map lod explored further. Maybe that with billboarded trees or something.
for LOD why not just use a Quadtree? Very simple logic, make 1 giant chunk, then if the player is inside that chunk, Subdivide that giant chunk into 4 smaller chunks. Then repeat until you are satisfied with the number of LOD. Also to generate the LOD you shouldn't do just the Mesh, you should also generate lower-resolution chunk data. Otherwise, you run out of memory at larger view distances, and giant LOD chunks will need Massive amounts of data. Instead, each chunk should always Generate a fixed resolution regardless of its size. This way you can easily have massive view distances, like 16km without memory or rendering issues.
I hope you're still ending up with a performance improvement, if your changes will also cause chunks to have to load in different detail levels more often!
I think youtube is racist. It gave me an IKEA advertisement on your video. Greetings from the other Sweeden, also known as Switzerland by insiders. I agree that graphics are hard. At least that is my opinion after not having tried it. Voxel games sound cool to make and I'd rather watch other people do it for me.
I've been watching you for quite some time now, I'm wondering, though, if you have a 10 year old computer. Why not get a new one? I'd say your channel is successful enough to buy it as a business expense? So you can get back taxes as well, it would help your dev work as well. So why not upgrade?
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
This man is singlehandedly porting Veloren to Bevy.
Wait veloren doesnt use bevy ??
@@cocowwd i was about to type the same, I'm pretty sure it uses bevy-ecs
@@onelikeandidie I believe veloren uses their own ECS
I went to fact check myself at this point. It uses the specs crate for ECS, I was pretty sure it used bevy oh well
@@onelikeandidie At one point, I think Bevy used specs, switched to hecs, and now has its own ECS implementation.
Genuinely my favorite programming channel. I love coding in Rust, and watching these videos is super interesting to see how you structure all of this
PBR, Shadows, and LODS oh my! Really interesting to hear the different problems you encountered with each steps and the solutions. Great work!
Nice Video, I've never done anything with Graphics Programming. So this is really impressive!
Without this video I wouldn't have discovered you could import shader code! It's helped my project, thank you :)
glad that could help, luckily the bevy/shader examples are pretty good if you need to figure out some shader stuff.
Got that sweet, sweet Patreon support locked in! Been loving your content and energy, and it's both educating me and motivating me to revisit a game I didn't finish for ludum dare earlier this year!
This stuff looks advanced. Great work. At the moment I make only simple games, so I can only try to imagine how hard this Voxel thing is. Congrats on making it work. Keep up the good work ;)
- Dan
Fascinating to see what problems you've been running into! Great video Tantan.
I am making a voxel game in Bevy too, what I do is I have a .draw() method on my Chunk struct, that returns a Bevy Mesh, and then I draw it with PbrBundle.
Love a Tantan video. Thanks for uploading!
very nice pasta Tantan yumyum
When are you uploading?
The progress is very cool! I see that the mesh generation is a bit slow, I noticed that you're using hash map structures, and I was wondering if it would be possible to avoid those, since they cause a lot of memory cache misses (especially if you have very large ones). Or maybe having a lot of smaller ones so they fit inside the L2/L1 caches would be enough!
Nice video! Might I suggest making your voiceover track mono in future uploads? Something about the phase of your mic makes it really hard (personally) to listen to with headphones. Cheers!
will do :)
Do you need some kind of hysteresis, so if you step back and forward over the edge of one area you're not constantly loading and unloading the same boundary tiles?
like, you are in area B, next to areas A and C, so you have ABC loaded. you move from B to C, so it unloads A and loads D so you have BCD loaded. then you step back from C to B and it unloads D and loads A to give you ABC again. then you make one step forward again - back to BCD... so you need to have a sensibly wide boundary where it doesn't change anything so you don't get this thrash
BABE wake up Tantan uploaded a video!!!!!!
Like some other commenters, I notice that you're using hashmaps to keep track of things. I don't know if they are a performance bottleneck for you, but did you know that the default hashing algorithm used by Rust hashmaps is slow? You can replace the hashing function with a crate like FxHasher, and net performance gains from a simple find/replace :)
(The default hashing algorithm is slow because it was chosen to be DDOS-resistant, but for graphics code that doesn't matter.)
If you're still looking for something to do with the LOD misalignment you can look into adapting the surface shifting technique described in the Transvoxel paper in ch 4
ah thanks for the article, interesting stuff!
For LOD you could arrange the chunk data like a .png, where the spaced out blocks come first and the next data fills in the gaps
Bevy has been so interesting to work in. I've been working on a multiplayer FPS similar to Quake Arena using GGRS for networking. When Bevy works, oh boy it's so nice. Writing a system that just does what it needs to is so awesome. When things don't work tho...it's... interesting
0:43 I can feel you 🥲😐
6:00 Damn I feel your pain! I spent couple weeks to do it right in my game and it still have some issues.
Nice work. And theres a also a cool game that is written in rust its called veloren its very amazing
Nice continue the nice work!
Hello really liked your video! Could you share what you use to make your drawings like @6:29 :)
Ray Tracing looks great in voxel games, I would love to see you implement ray traced (software-based of course because of your GPU) lighting/shadows/GI etc as an option!
wouldn't that be too much for a cpu? I don't know much about ray tracing but I think there is a reason it runs on a gpu
@@patrykszewczuk8741 software rendering in general is a very bad idea even if you have a decent CPU
@@thefurry7165 all rendering is software-based because you need to write software to run on the GPU. I think this term is not good to be used, unfortunately. GPU rendering is a better term overall.
@@patrykszewczuk8741 since its a voxel game, some simple raytracing can be done on the cpu, however if you want it super realistic a gpu is needed yes.
Also don't quote me on this I'm not 100% certain
@@patrykszewczuk8741 op probably meant implementing ray tracing without relying on hardware ray tracing cores that are exclusive to modern NVIDIA and AMD gpus, like how Teardown and Minecraft shaders do it
-> touch some_grass
`touch`: cannot touch ‘some_grass’: Permission denied
Если ты завершишь разработку игры, и будешь ее развивать - это будет невероятно круто
Det här var rätt coolt hörredudu... Försöker lära mig Rust först innan jag ger mig på något ens nääääääääära det här haha
Very cool work! You are an inspiration to us all. :D
you can probably force your world preview to be behind your voxel mesh in shader code by adding some offset before writing to the depth buffer, but i know neither bevy or rust, so that could be hard to do
Vad roligt!
I actually have one of those scary books. If only I got the time to reading any of it :D
new tantan video, the world is saved
Your VisitStatus type looks oddly similar to what you return in a Future, I wonder if async can be used with a helper crate to simplify the loading and rendering pipeline for chunks
This project speaks to me! Do you know if criterion take data allocation into consideration for its benchmarks? I think you could save some cycles by considering the data allocations at 1:00 (its seems to me that the positions could be placed on the heap, (*edited*) thus accessed linearly by the computer). Do you have any profiling exempels uploaded?
Note: Im a bevy rockie, have never used a game engine and do not condone premature optimization ;)
If the terrain is far enough away you could try rendering it just as points instead of cubes, like a point cloud they can look pretty good
It's stupid that Minecraft still doesn't have LOD
Level of detail is ideally done with octrees, that way you can have massive render distances. In your current setup, it seems you still keep the same sized chunks?
Do you think octrees could be applicable in a voxel engine that does not use ray tracing? I've been reading online in many places saying that it isn't necessary, but in those cases, level of detail is not implemented I believe...
Octrees are not often a good solution for visual LoD because you can only scale detail by a factor of 2. They're mostly useful only as an implementation detail for large volumes with low entropy. For LoD, a good approach (and one that we use in Veloren) is to artifically stretch the LoD mesh in the vertex shader such that more detail naturally appears close to the camera and this detail reduces gradually with distance from the camera.
@@Tantandev Yep. I've written voxel engines with rasterisation and octrees to store the data. That way you can have exponentially larger chunks as the chunks aren't all the same size in the world. It's a lot of work however to get it all working, so it isn't something one should take lightly.
@@jsbarretto I'm not sure I understand your approach. How do you start with the LoD mesh in the first place that you are to stretch? and what does stretching even entail to add more detail? Is there an article that I could read?
It's very humbling to see you work with such an old GPU
Man you are amazing
Do you livestream in twitch? Or anywhere
So much beauty
0:21 what's the title of the music?
it's from opengameart! here is a link:
opengameart.org/content/hyper-ultra-racing
Thanks!
wait a second since when did wgsl have import directives? Is this a feature bevy adds? I can't find it in the wgsl spec
Yes its a feature of the bevy preprocessor, not wgsl itself
I'm trying to port my wip game to bevy, since i love rust but it seems there is no easy and nice way to do something like nested assets where you have a filepath to an asset inside another one.
Like a compressed file?
Or more like a giant blob of data like a .pkg or .dat file? Unsure if thats supported out of the box, however you can certainly write your own handler for it. Shouldn't be that difficult even
OMG Why didn't I learn this earlier
wow, after those rendering improvments the game looks soooo good. I have a few questions though. Based on the video I saw that you use bevy renderer but write shaders yourself. Is that true? What are the benefits of writing them. And second one, how long does your project compile? I'm getting pretty annoyed at how slow my projects compile but maybe it's normal...
Have you tried enabling the dylib feature of bevy? I found it improved my compile times a lot
@@davawen9938 I've been looking into it but I think I heard that it's not available on windows
@@maxplayerone9565 for that reason I recommend setting up wsl2, with pulseaudio and a windows x server.
It can be quite a bit of work, but it works great ^^
Hmm, gonna look into that. I've used wsl for a while but I didn't see how it would help me so I just stopped :P
@@maxplayerone9565 wsl supports windows out of the box now, since a few weeks i think. Idk hoe good it is doe
It's insane to me that you first thought of implementing the thing yourself instead of immediately scavenging around for an existing implementation of anything close enough to your needs
What are your thoughts on the rust foundation drama?
The suggestions are absolutely crazy and if implemented would probably hurt the rust community in a very noticable way. So I'm not a big fan... Luckily ThePrimeagen, GamesFromScratch and Theo have all spoken up
I watched this video just after taking a walk and now you tell me to touch grass 😤
have you seen Veloren?
nice one
i love bevy
So when are you going to make nanite 🙃
How do you manage to develop Rust on 10 year old PC :O
Mine is ~6 years old and when I compile Rust even the goddamn Spotify starts lagging.
your videos are so inspiring
I hope I muster the courage to start a channel too😢
I wanna build a small community and share what I love
The reality is that everyone's first videos will 99% chance be garbage, and that's fine because you won't get good until you have failed many times. We are all scared of judgment, looking like a fool etc... But everyone who has achieved success have all looked like fools at some point. 2 books that personally have helped me overcome fear/procrastination: 1. war of art 2. do the work. Both are written by steven pressfield. Actually check out some of his interviews on YT, pretty dope :)
The lod where you double the size of the blocks (the one at the end of your vid and outlined in that one 0fps blog post) looks pretty bad IMO. Surely you've seen lots of screen shots of implementations at this point. While it makes sense from a technical perspective. I've never seen an implementation of it that doesnt fuck with your sense of scale and distance. I really wanted to see the height map lod explored further. Maybe that with billboarded trees or something.
for LOD why not just use a Quadtree? Very simple logic, make 1 giant chunk, then if the player is inside that chunk, Subdivide that giant chunk into 4 smaller chunks.
Then repeat until you are satisfied with the number of LOD.
Also to generate the LOD you shouldn't do just the Mesh, you should also generate lower-resolution chunk data.
Otherwise, you run out of memory at larger view distances, and giant LOD chunks will need Massive amounts of data.
Instead, each chunk should always Generate a fixed resolution regardless of its size.
This way you can easily have massive view distances, like 16km without memory or rendering issues.
supporting tantan with seks
checks out
I hope you're still ending up with a performance improvement, if your changes will also cause chunks to have to load in different detail levels more often!
I think youtube is racist. It gave me an IKEA advertisement on your video.
Greetings from the other Sweeden, also known as Switzerland by insiders.
I agree that graphics are hard. At least that is my opinion after not having tried it. Voxel games sound cool to make and I'd rather watch other people do it for me.
Why are you drawing triangles when they should be squares?
awesome :)
Implement nanite and lumen using rust!
kul
Hey, hey !
So real
I'm very sorry, but I am not going to touch grass right now, as it snow-rains 😨 (yes, the mixture of them both)
But nice progress on the engine 😊
You're so Swedish !! (no?)
please source code github link
I love me some CHUNKS
I've been watching you for quite some time now, I'm wondering, though, if you have a 10 year old computer. Why not get a new one? I'd say your channel is successful enough to buy it as a business expense? So you can get back taxes as well, it would help your dev work as well.
So why not upgrade?
Cool video! I've implemented a voxel engine with 100km of render distance and have a video talking about it if you are interested :P
This was nice to watch, but what has been achieved here that is "pushing the rendering limits"? You mean *your* limits?
His engine rendering limits
me have gtx 630 no worry
:)
:)
;)
Qzeq?
Wtf did i just watch
Shhhhhhhh, don't mention the R word ...
I mean... CRAB LANGUAGE!!!
Why don't you use Unreal Engine 5 for graphic design? Your game look trash compare to UR5 game tbh
its not for production purposes, more like a learning experience.
Cliche editing, primitive problems, unimpressive results
what's wrong with you bud
@@javierflores09 They didn't get enough love as a child, I guess