@@3DPrintedTabletop I laughed that you said not to 3d print trees yet one of the big reasons I bought your Lost Adventures set last week was for the the trees. They are awesome and I have the last one printing right now.
Oh believe me...all of the reasons why Jeremy listed for NOT crafting trees are why I just print mine. We talked about it, but got cut from the final video (we filmed for about an hour in real life). Printed trees are pretty much my favorite at this point too - the number of times my kids have dropped them. They've survived it all :D Still, that being said: I acknowledge my bias. When you're a hammer, the world is a nail, and that's why I love talking about stuff like this. :)
@@3DPrintedTabletop I actually started watching Black Magic Craft before your channel so it was nice to see the collaboration. It was well presented why you would either print or craft. There is a time and a place for both sides.I think Black Magic Craft's bias came out a little more in the video but that is because he has the passion for the crafting. There is nothing wrong with that, his stuff is amazing. I thought the column discussions really showed the reality of things. Building 8 columns is simple cheap and cool to do, but building 32 is agonizing and will never get done even though he wants them.
@@Kay0Bot Not necessarily. There are so many free files for scatter pieces and other objects on various websites that the amount of 3D design skill necessary is pretty negligible.
@@Kay0Bot I guess that's kind of a third path. A majority of people who print are doing it with free/purchased files. But yeah if you enjoy the process of 3d modeling and/or just aren't that good at crafting with your hands then sculpting your own stuff definitely seems like its own thing.
I scratch built a custom house for a scenario last year. I spent a lot of time on building it and am proud of it. I recently got a 3d printer and printed off a house from thingiverse, my mother in law took one look at it and said "wow, that looks way better!" hahaha
Try mixing parts. Like partially hand made the terrain then mix parts that with 3d printed so they would have the best of both world. Also they won't over power each other, a 3D house and a hand made house will look vastly different next to each other. I did something similar with MDF terrain, hand made parts, and resin cast parts. It look way better then both the MDF and hand made terrain if I done them individually.
Yes to everything Underworlddream said. I think one thing UWD meant to say but it wasn't 100% out there, is that house STL might be available, but how many of the exact same house do you want on your table? If you start with 3d printed houses and then cut them up, glue them back together, make a couple 2-storey, you can use one STL to make a whole village look different - but of course that means crafting work on top of the 3d printed objects. I want to add that if you 3d print, it can be more durable than handmade, depending on the materials you use to craft. But it will also cost more money in PLA or resin (and wear on your printer), but much less time. I think where 3d printers are really gonna shine is greeblies. When hand crafting that house, if you can get premade parts to stick all over it, that's really going to help. Especially so with dioramas and dungeon tiles.
So I worked in my Universities 3D printing lab processing print requests. The amount of shit that was sent to us to print that was just a flat block with a few holes in it.. these are Bachelor's and Masters engineering students... Absolutely stupid. We have 3 industrial laser cutters..
Just practice your skills and enough money for practice material and in a couple months you will have something like it or better.... see, simpler and faster than 3d print it hahahaha
You should check out all pf the Tabletop Crafters Guild. They all produce informative and inspirational content that will have you chomping at the bit to get crafting!
One time I spent an entire afternoon trying to design a tar pit in blender. Suddenly I stopped and said out loud, "Why am I doing this? I could just use hotglue on black construction paper.
My answer to just about all of the items featured here is "Why not both?" I just started 3d printing this past year, but I came from a long history of hand-building. One of the biggest frustrations I ran into while hand-building was getting the right materials. There were so many times where if I had the right materials for a project, I could get better results, or get the same results a lot faster and easier. And while 3d printing something does comes with it's own complications, it now gives me a whole new option when it comes to hand-building. Heck, I even saw where someone figured out a way to 3d print grass flock. GRASS. FLOCK. That's just crazy. I feel that, for a lot of people like me who've been gaming and building for a long time, there will always be some element of hand-building in what we make. Either using 3d printing as an option to improve or speed up our builds, or incorporating hand-building to refine and improve on the projects we print.
I feel there should be 3 groups. Hand made, resin printing and fdm printing. Minis and resin is a for sure. Scenery, terrain, buildings etc are much better for fdm than resin.
Oh my gosh! Thanks for the shoutout guys! I was wondering where all the new visitors to my video came from! I would NOT recommend fully 3d printing the wave echo cave to anyone lol.
For me the reason why I'm now printing a lot of terrain (including buildings), is that while the printer is making the terrain, I can do something else. I win a lot of time this way. I can make a house like Jeremy does. But it would take me more time than I have available => it takes me months to build a house in my free time. In that same time, my printer will have printed a whole village.
There's also a lot of ways to do things in a hybrid style? Like as he said printing details like windows for a house. Or even a detailed door with? Making a strong frame even. 3d printing is just a tool and we can do so much.
So the simple answer - Big complex things - no. Little complex things - Yes. Big simple things - No. Small simple things - Maybe. :) Great vid! Love both you guys
My favorite way to play instead of dungeon tiles is a TV with a image of my map. Then I add 3d printed elements on top of that. Like buildings, bushes, fire pits, and so forth. My players have really been enjoying it!
Great Debate I like what Jeremy said, "if your're thinking whether to build it or print it. Print it because you didn't say right away I can build that!"
OMG. So this. So very this. So many people seem to insist you have to pick a 'side'. You either hand craft everything OR your 3D print everything and if you do anything from the 'other side' you've somehow done it 'wrong'. I've been following both these guys for a while and I'm so very glad to see this tackled. Kudos to both of you. Much love.
Great video! Thanks to both of you guys, I have a good bit of experience with both printing and crafting. I will say, one point you didn't bring up is that once you've bought a 3D printer, you're going to want to justify getting your money's worth out of it. There are lots of things I probably should craft instead, but the printer is right there, just looking at me with those jealous eyes.
This is totally true. I print stuff that I could probably craft just because I've got a tool ready to make it happen while I work on something else. I craft much less these days as a result (not including basing for minis, etc.)
This was fun! I started watching BMC years ago as I was wanting to craft for fun. Then that got me onto the path of dnd. Then I eventually took the plunge into 3d printing and discovered your stuff. I find I have less time in my life for crafting and I am very appreciative of 3d printing. I tend to use both skills to get what I'm after. For me the benefit of 3d printing is I can be painting minis while the machine is doing its thing. But there is definitely a different satisfaction from crafting.
As a crafting DM turned 3D printer I loved this video! Learning how to make stone dungeon tiles from Jeremy all those years ago to learning good 3D print settings for FDM miniature printing from Danny, this is an awesome video of worlds colliding! Great advice, I love using 3D printing as a tool to assist my crafting so I can focus on the aspects of crafting that I really enjoy
Another option though less available is milling/routing. I use a cnc router to carve tiles from the stl files, a 24x24 in area can be carved in foam in under an hour.
With my FDM I have printed mostly tile's. Specifically for the fact I print open-lock and connect them. Wood, stone, cavern, volcano, swamp, I'm sure more that I have forgotten. Pre-make up a set-up and keep pieces covered with paper or a sheet. Resin printer for miniature's and accessories with detail.
You're living the dream, Da Vinci! THE DREAM! I know a lot of folks who do this as well though. In fact, the tile printing community is what started the growth we see today in our community.
The Lost Adventures Kickstarter has trees that you should 100% 3D print. I've made a small forest just using 3D printed trees because of that Kickstarter and trees similar to it!
As the guy who put that KS together - I have to wholeheartedly agree :) When Jeremy was describing the kind of trees that he wouldn't want crafted...it was all the reasons why I love those trees too. I actually don't own any handmade/bought trees - printed is perfect for me and the way I play!
Really great video. The only thing I'd add is that I think BMC views crafting as an artistic process, whereas he views 3D printing as a production process, printing out a model you've downloaded from the Internet. I'm an architect in real life, and whilst I enjoy a bit of terrain crafting from time to time, my skill level is nowhere near as high as his. I can't scratch build a house that looks as amazing as that one. But I sure as hell can 3d model it. My printer allows me to actually print it out into a physical piece. For someone like me it's a game changer, I can bring my ideas to life in a way that wasn't possible before. And it's still a unique piece that nobody else has, which I made myself. I just used a different tool to make it.
Whenever one of them was holding the other's build, the other one hovered over it oh-so protectively. It's the fiercest instinct of maker-of-things and collectors, and I could not stop chortling 😊 Watch their hands and their faces whenever the other person readjusts their grip.
The chat has been blessed with this comment :) I made sure to leave in Jeremy's caveat about the big reasons why you'd want to print them (hint: they're exactly the kind you make) :D of course, I am of the same mind
I have to disagree as well, although I do a mix of both worlds. I use a lot of your models Devon and they are wonderful, but recently I created my own foam tiles similar to dwarven forge's edges and ledges to create negative space builds. They go so well with 3d printed tiles!
I agree! Neither of us are designers, but we both agree that it's definitely a form of crafting. And I think it's assumed: if you're making it, it's probably worth printing (at least for yourself)
This is like having mom and dad giving the best. In a strange but happy dungeon family. I crafted following BMC tutorials for a long time. I got my 3d printer mainly because of Danny. True respect.
Gotta be honest I'd use bit of resin to make rocks etc rather than getting into crafting my own terrain. That's probably because I don't have a typical hobby space, instead I have all of my miniature stuff in my recording studio, which is separated from my main house via a door. Like my studio is pretty small so I don't have unlimited space for foamboard and other stuff like that so I'll just print the stuff out in my house and just paint it in the studio. Basically my entire hobby space for painting etc is one table with lights in the corner of the studio.
I think print or craft boils down to what you personally enjoy. If you enjoy crafting but don't enjoy 3d printing you should always craft. Only if you enjoy both it makes sense to have this conversation. If you enjoy neither and just want the product there is also another answer: Buy it. Crafting and 3D printing both take considerable amounts of your personal time. After all this is a hobby, if you do not enjoy the process its probably cheaper to just buy the stuff.
honestly, for most of these i'd suggest doing both...craft whatever is decently doable to craft, and print the tiny things that require more details. want a fountain? craft the base, maybe print some ornaments to put on it. want to build a house, craft the house, maybe print the smaller details (translucent resin/filament for the windows, print door handles or maybe full door,...) these can also be combined, create 1 version of detailed things either by crafting or printing them, then turn those into a mold for resin or green stuff or... no need to think about crafting VS printing. if you have a printer and love to craft, use them to support each other ^^
This was a lot of fun to watch. The comparison between 3D printing and crafting always keeps me busy, not just for D&D stuff but also for stuff I make for work: should I design the 3D model and print it or do I just shape it from wood, plastic or any other material? I love to make stuff with my hands so what I can do by hand, I often will. Terrain pieces and building is something to be done by hand but doors, windows and detailed pieces that are easy to design in 3D; those I will design myself and print. Designing miniatures needs a complete set of skills that I do not have so those I download an print. One of the big advantages, for me, of 3D printing miniatures is that I can print the same mini multiple times and try different techniques on them to see what works best for me.
I think a lot of it comes down to time and detail. Some details you can't get in one form of creation over the other. Some don't have time to hand craft an item, then paint it. Some have time to put a job on to print and then come home and use their free time to paint it. There's going to be some that don't have the patience to hand craft (and would get frustrated or have a room full of half finished project because they aren't turning out the way they want it to).
Great video guys! This is a really important consideration; how to integrate crafting and 3Dprinting. Personally, I'm getting an SLA printer soon and I'm really looking forward to being able to combine the two. Crafting say, a building, is mostly pretty easy, but certain bits - doors and windows for example - are time consuming. Other bits - intricate chimney pots, weather vanes, decorative carvings, etc - are very challenging to hand craft. With both approaches working together the sky is the limit!
To make connecting dungeon tiles. 1. Just cut a small slit in the side of the tiles 2. Cut to length a small piece of a popsicle stick 3. Slide it in one side and glue it or just slide them in and out
Really good video. Really liked this video. As someone who has made terrain for years, done resin casting, and even has some award winning pieces - a lot of what said here certainly resonates. I love the problem solving and creativity of making a piece. But that is the first piece. If I need 10 of them - print them. Heck, if it is something simple, and I can find a model - print it. Also, if sci-fi - 3d printing is a lot easier - fantasy can have rough edges (wood, stone etc.) where as sci-fi is a lot more straight and clean lines, and 3d printing works well. On sci-fi building pieces, I like to make the base building out of foamcore, and use TONS of 3d printed doors, vents and other greebles. (the best of both worlds). thanks for the video guys!
I think one thing that you guys forgot to mention (unless I missed it) is that printing can be much easier for people who dont have time and/or space to craft. With printing you can just import and press a button and not worry about it until its done, whereas crafting it takes some dedicated time away from other things. Plus crafting can be much messier and some people dont have dedicated space to get covered in glue and styrofoam. I really want to get into hand crafting terrain though, just gotta find the time
There was a lengthy convo about the time that got cut out (due to time :D), but we didn't cover space. I'll be honest, I find myself using the floor or cardboard boxes pretty often and just clean up afterwards. Sometimes it's harder to just do it than anything, even with the materials. Thanks for the comment, Velrock!
"if you're asking yourself if you should craft it or print it then print it" Great quote! Because its true, if you dont want to spend the time crafting something, even if it makes more sense, then its not worth it. And Vise versa, it might be a million times easier to print something but if you want to craft it, the satisfaction is worth the impracticality of it.
3d printing is a crafters friend. It's a tool that can make special tools like custom texture rolling pins or printing small props to go in bigger pieces. Creating frames for buildings to make them sturdier.
@Black Magic Craft - Love the point about print vs. build. My process is to ask myself, will I be happier when I have reached the goal? Sometimes it's about learning new skills, expressing creativity, or the satisfaction of meeting the challenge. Sometimes it is just too much of a hassle given the joy received from the result. Solid wisdom for makers Jeremy.
I had flashbacks of when I worked at a hobby store when I saw those little trees. I distinctly remember stocking those things saying, "$27.99… whuuuuuuut?"
you could very much both consider learning how to 3d model as it is in my mind the closest thing to a cross over between both the crafting and printing sides and adds an extra tool to your arsenal for instance those dumpsters he made could be modeled so that he could go trough the problem solving phase and then you have a unique creation all on your own that could easily be turned into an army of pieces that are identical because now you have the unique master file forever but you aren't limited to only making it when you have the motivation to repeat the process again
To me, 3d printing has opened a world of possibilities while saving a lot, but I mean a LOT of time. I used to craft everything and I got good at it (I even sold my crafts and made a living with it). But now, I got a kid, a full time job and other stuff I want to do, so printing terrain and minis is just the way to go. I still craft some stuff (like rocks and outdoors stuff) and I still have to paint everythinig, but now my between games time is spent on improving my world, NPCs, maps, etc. instead of worrying about a single encounter that I want to have in 3d.
funny how when you live in Winnipeg, December is still runners and hoodie weather if your just running out for a bit(couple of hours) If your from Miami a few more layers are required. Great watch guys, the wife is the crafter I'm the 3d printer and gamer this got us really thinking about how we approach stuff in our respective hobbies.
3d modelling your own stuff is a nice balance between coming up with stuff and "crafting" them and just pressing a button and printing multiple copies of the same thing without the tedium of repeating the steps over and over yourself. Just the painting part alone is enough "hands on" crafting for me.
Should you print or craft something? Yes. I have rarely been happy with a printed object on its own, but printing gribblies for a crafted project... that's pretty much spot on.
There is a critical factor that didn't come up here: time. It's a serious limitation for a lot of DMs who also have jobs and families to worry about. Every hour I spend hand crafting awesome terrain is time I don't have for housework, parenting, game prep, game play, or sleep. I'm in no way trying to put down or demean the people who prefer hand making things, because I have incredible respect for the love and effort they put into it, but we all have to make choices about how we prioritize our time. Would I love the artistic process of hand building beautiful houses, pillars, scatter, and tiles? Yes, I would. I did sculpting for years when I was young, I enjoy problem solving, and making unique artwork is very appealing. I'm a creative person; that's why I love DMing in the first place. However, I can set my 3D printer going before bedtime using files I downloaded, and by the time I get home from work I have a pile of terrain ready for a quick cleanup and paint. I can shave hundreds of hours of work out by printing, which means I can spend more time being a parent, friend, and DM for my group.
I absolutely agree, Cristia! These are my exact feelings. Some things I still do craft by hand, but these days I print a lot of it. I love what I print just as much, and after painting it and using it on the table...it's still incredibly fulfilling for me. That being said: I also love how interconnected so many hobbies are here with tabletop games - and I think most people gravitate towards the ones they enjoy the most. Thanks again for the comment , and happy printing!
I'm not into table top gaming but this was very interesting to watch. I was just thinking of an idea though. For the 12x12 (or whatever size) tiles, how about including a sheet metal layer close to the surface. With that, you can imbed small magnets (neodymium would be best) into your set pieces so that they'll stick to the tiles and won't get bumped around. With this method you could also pre-make a room and move it around without worrying about all the little bits and bobs falling off or shifting out of place. And it'll help with pieces that are really light and easily blown over.
Great video & super helpful for newbies. I was listening to this whilst folding laundry & wearing headphones & jumped when Luke popped in with his "How do guys?!" lol.
Such a good convo. Same thing in the drone world... Sometimes it's not worth 3D printing something when you can modify a dollar store item quickly and effectively.
I got my 3d printer last Christmas. It could have been glorious. But every game I've played since then has been via roll20. That said, my group has actually managed to pass 12 consecutive weeks of gaming sessions, which I personally haven't managed with any group since I left school.
Dungeon tiles, what you can print is the foam rollers. They have the patterns on the roller and you just roll it on the foam. Finish with paint clear coat to harden.
This is such a cool conversation between two people totally passionate about their crafts. I appreciate this video a bunch, thanks for talking it out for us!
I'm a new DM so I'm watching this trying to figure out if I should delve head first into some of the pre made 3dp dungeon stuff, but i do appreciate the perspective of a crafter that is willing to look at things from the other side. He's able to separate pride over practicality which I feel is hard to do when you're talking about things that you created with your own hands and if people should take the shortcut over that craft.
I kinda disagree on dungeon tiles if you are using the openlock with spherical magnets, because they snap together, but they surely cost more than the foam tiles. And on the buildings, while they are breath taking, a lot of the buildings made by patreon's and companies are modular with interiors. So the buildings are lovely for world building and setting a theme, but if an enemy flees into a one of them it's nice to just take it apart piece by piece and keep the game going.
I'm with you on the buildings, also I'm not that creative, so could never get even close to what Jeremy has modelled. However, the City of Tarok building serve that purpose beautifully.
this is about your passions and interests. I agree with each perspective. you guys like to make imaginary worlds. and you both use different tools to achieve this goal. and each way is a unique challenge to overcome or adapt to. Keep up the good work and love the stuffs! :P
This video is perfect for me. Long time BMC watcher and terrain crafter, still developing my 3d printing skills/bits. This helps me triage which projects to out into my "craft" queue and which into my "print" queue.
My Dwarven Forge collection is why I wanted a 3d printer. Print add on pieces and pieces that Dwarven Forge doesn't have, and for all the dungeon scatter, little fiddly bits, and of course for miniatures :)
Here is my tree formula. When ebay started I was the first person to sell N and z scale flexible trees here is the formula. Copper phone wire, latex mold builder, latex paint and flocking or foliage. Twist wire into tree forms, add green brown paint to latex rubber and brush on wire, let dry glue on foliage. They are flexible so transport easy and you can bend branches to suit the setting you build. :)
I think it depends a lot on whether you want to design your own 3d model using something like blender to actually make a 3d design not only can you very easily change something about it, but you also get into the mindset of what's going to happen during the battle as you're designing it
🤣 Seriously though, that's fair, but they are a bit heavy if you tend to travel, and they don't often come with conveniently flat bottoms. Also my players might be tempted to throw them at each other if they were real rocks.
My crafting goes back decades, just getting close to pulling the trigger on a 3D printer. Back in the day a couple decades ago, I started buying Hirst Arts molds, which I would consider a precursor to 3D printing terrain. I still cast pieces in dental plaster for terrain to this day.
One thing for me personally is that I like 3D modeling as a form of that maker craft similar to doing it by hand but I also appreciate messing with physical making I'm actually torn and I'm glad the video fell that way
Asking one of the greatest UA-cam crafting personalities whether you should craft or print objects seems like a conversation that you don't really need to watch a video to know.
Good vid, some things I didn't consider when it comes to creating with 3D printer or crafting. One thing I thing was lost in this video though, especially when talking about buildings, is the 3D modeling process. Didn't seem like CAD was a factor in this discussion. Maybe Im wrong though. But people should keep the time and skill to use CAD in mind as well when making these decisions.
I made some trees, and some dead trees. the dead trees are so much more useful, you can pretend they have leaves (we're playing dnd for christsake! lol) and they dont crowd the board and you can see everything. So I started just gluing the armatures I bought for cheap on ebay onto little bases and bam, nice looking dead trees.
The best thing said in the vid: Building them again is not problem solving, it's just repeated work. Im going to have to remeber that, it maybe the reason I don't like building the same things over again.
Big fan Danny but pretty much everything on this list I would rather print anyways. Looks cooler and having plug and print printers makes it that easy for me, the craft aspect is a different hobby entirely now aside from painting kind of thing for me
I just finished building the menagerie section of module S2 White Plume Mountain, out of foam and plexiglas. There's NOOO way I could've 3d printed that! It would've weighed a TON, then I'd have had to have glued it together, etc.
One of the nice things about printing huge layouts like that is that you can use clips, and reuse those modular pieces. So you could have more than just the menagerie section. It would definitely weigh and take time though! Your players are lucky to have you!
@@3DPrintedTabletop Thank you! One day, soon (as in, the next couple of months) I'll pick up a 3d printer. Most likely a Creality Ender 3. UA-cam recommended your video on it to me (which is how I found your channel) and you showing what a then $300 (now $169) 3d printer could accomplish just floored me. Don't know if I'd have the patience for a huge piece like the menagerie, tho :D
I’m not sure I’m emotionally ready to watch this pre 2020 conversation between these two innocent boys.
It's wonderful hearing you talk about 3D printing like this actually (and seeing all the minis you actually HAVE printed since then)!
Also wonderful to see the shift in games you're playing, and thus crafting you're doing, lately too
@@3DPrintedTabletop I laughed that you said not to 3d print trees yet one of the big reasons I bought your Lost Adventures set last week was for the the trees. They are awesome and I have the last one printing right now.
Oh believe me...all of the reasons why Jeremy listed for NOT crafting trees are why I just print mine. We talked about it, but got cut from the final video (we filmed for about an hour in real life).
Printed trees are pretty much my favorite at this point too - the number of times my kids have dropped them. They've survived it all :D
Still, that being said: I acknowledge my bias. When you're a hammer, the world is a nail, and that's why I love talking about stuff like this. :)
@@3DPrintedTabletop I actually started watching Black Magic Craft before your channel so it was nice to see the collaboration. It was well presented why you would either print or craft. There is a time and a place for both sides.I think Black Magic Craft's bias came out a little more in the video but that is because he has the passion for the crafting. There is nothing wrong with that, his stuff is amazing. I thought the column discussions really showed the reality of things. Building 8 columns is simple cheap and cool to do, but building 32 is agonizing and will never get done even though he wants them.
dudes. this is super useful.
Goobertown is a village (town?) that we all should strive to become a citizen of.
@@jeremiahbachmann3901 even the local Yetis are nice and helpful.
Rule of thumb:
If you want to craft it, craft it. If you don't: print it.
But...you designed and created the CAD...soooo
Gods I wish I could afford a 3d printer.
I guess I'll invest in molds, plaster of paris and styrofoam, along with resin to recast models with.
@@Kay0Bot Not necessarily. There are so many free files for scatter pieces and other objects on various websites that the amount of 3D design skill necessary is pretty negligible.
@@Kay0Bot I guess that's kind of a third path. A majority of people who print are doing it with free/purchased files. But yeah if you enjoy the process of 3d modeling and/or just aren't that good at crafting with your hands then sculpting your own stuff definitely seems like its own thing.
“If you’re asking that question, you just innately don’t want to build it.”
Take away from and moral of this video.
I scratch built a custom house for a scenario last year. I spent a lot of time on building it and am proud of it.
I recently got a 3d printer and printed off a house from thingiverse, my mother in law took one look at it and said "wow, that looks way better!"
hahaha
Try mixing parts. Like partially hand made the terrain then mix parts that with 3d printed so they would have the best of both world. Also they won't over power each other, a 3D house and a hand made house will look vastly different next to each other. I did something similar with MDF terrain, hand made parts, and resin cast parts. It look way better then both the MDF and hand made terrain if I done them individually.
Yes to everything Underworlddream said. I think one thing UWD meant to say but it wasn't 100% out there, is that house STL might be available, but how many of the exact same house do you want on your table? If you start with 3d printed houses and then cut them up, glue them back together, make a couple 2-storey, you can use one STL to make a whole village look different - but of course that means crafting work on top of the 3d printed objects.
I want to add that if you 3d print, it can be more durable than handmade, depending on the materials you use to craft. But it will also cost more money in PLA or resin (and wear on your printer), but much less time.
I think where 3d printers are really gonna shine is greeblies. When hand crafting that house, if you can get premade parts to stick all over it, that's really going to help. Especially so with dioramas and dungeon tiles.
Lol I am looking at some of the destroyed houses and buildings in thingyverse, compelled me to get a fdm printer
So I worked in my Universities 3D printing lab processing print requests.
The amount of shit that was sent to us to print that was just a flat block with a few holes in it.. these are Bachelor's and Masters engineering students... Absolutely stupid. We have 3 industrial laser cutters..
Hahahahahaba. Thats funny. I could make that with a nail.
Engineers... that's all! :D
Acceptable
Well, they are students... Someone is supposed to teach them there you know?...
If you design your own 3D print, isn’t it still a one of a kind as long as you don’t give the design away?
8:40 "Why would you print something this basic?"
Because I totally lack manual skills?!
Its easier than you think it is
Just practice your skills and enough money for practice material and in a couple months you will have something like it or better.... see, simpler and faster than 3d print it hahahaha
I watched this and felt the need to learn more crafting skill for terrain. Black Magic Craft earned my subscribe.
It goes so wonderfully with 3D printing if you are making stuff for tabletop games. Have fun - he's got so many great tutorials and builds!
been watching BMC since day 1, great content! Go Canada!
You should check out all pf the Tabletop Crafters Guild. They all produce informative and inspirational content that will have you chomping at the bit to get crafting!
@@kallisto9166 Been watching all of them since day one. (and other crafting/RPG) channels. I consume as much as possible.
One time I spent an entire afternoon trying to design a tar pit in blender. Suddenly I stopped and said out loud, "Why am I doing this? I could just use hotglue on black construction paper.
My answer to just about all of the items featured here is "Why not both?"
I just started 3d printing this past year, but I came from a long history of hand-building. One of the biggest frustrations I ran into while hand-building was getting the right materials. There were so many times where if I had the right materials for a project, I could get better results, or get the same results a lot faster and easier. And while 3d printing something does comes with it's own complications, it now gives me a whole new option when it comes to hand-building. Heck, I even saw where someone figured out a way to 3d print grass flock. GRASS. FLOCK. That's just crazy. I feel that, for a lot of people like me who've been gaming and building for a long time, there will always be some element of hand-building in what we make. Either using 3d printing as an option to improve or speed up our builds, or incorporating hand-building to refine and improve on the projects we print.
Where's this 3d orinted flock? Rather interested actually, probably just easier to buy some but I'm just curious.
I feel there should be 3 groups. Hand made, resin printing and fdm printing.
Minis and resin is a for sure. Scenery, terrain, buildings etc are much better for fdm than resin.
True that, although I get good results on larger minis
Oh my gosh! Thanks for the shoutout guys! I was wondering where all the new visitors to my video came from! I would NOT recommend fully 3d printing the wave echo cave to anyone lol.
That pop up of Luke had me in stiches "How do guys?!"
The rally cry of Luke watchers everywhere :D
BMC's eye roll at the mention of dwarven forge is priceless
For me the reason why I'm now printing a lot of terrain (including buildings), is that while the printer is making the terrain, I can do something else. I win a lot of time this way.
I can make a house like Jeremy does. But it would take me more time than I have available => it takes me months to build a house in my free time. In that same time, my printer will have printed a whole village.
There's also a lot of ways to do things in a hybrid style? Like as he said printing details like windows for a house. Or even a detailed door with? Making a strong frame even. 3d printing is just a tool and we can do so much.
I agree. I literally spend that time prepping and planning my DND games.
Big thanks to Jeremy for having me! For awesome crafting goodness, check out his channel here: ua-cam.com/channels/2Rlv-ug-mtnXuMwlpcqFgg.html
So the simple answer - Big complex things - no. Little complex things - Yes. Big simple things - No. Small simple things - Maybe. :) Great vid! Love both you guys
Why not just call the video should you 3D print these?
did you guys take time to do a one shot? I have been thinking more and more about one shots.
So, how was our canadian winter for you? im not poking fun; have you ever been in a full winter?
My two favorite D&D crafters in one go?! Yes, please.
Nerdgasim!!!!!!!
My all-time 3 favorite channels are Black Magic Craft, Miniac, and you the 3D printing DM.
Cool to see you guys collaborating
Dreaming of the day we can get together with Scott (AKA Mr. Moist). Thanks for the comment, Spencer!
My favorite way to play instead of dungeon tiles is a TV with a image of my map. Then I add 3d printed elements on top of that. Like buildings, bushes, fire pits, and so forth. My players have really been enjoying it!
This is what we want to do
@@brandielee7971 excellent!!!
Great Debate I like what Jeremy said, "if your're thinking whether to build it or print it. Print it because you didn't say right away I can build that!"
"HOW DO GUYS!" lmao that was hilarious
I luv, luv, luv'd it.
No, no, you pronounce it "OW DO GUYS!" :P
OMG. So this. So very this. So many people seem to insist you have to pick a 'side'. You either hand craft everything OR your 3D print everything and if you do anything from the 'other side' you've somehow done it 'wrong'. I've been following both these guys for a while and I'm so very glad to see this tackled. Kudos to both of you. Much love.
Great video! Thanks to both of you guys, I have a good bit of experience with both printing and crafting.
I will say, one point you didn't bring up is that once you've bought a 3D printer, you're going to want to justify getting your money's worth out of it.
There are lots of things I probably should craft instead, but the printer is right there, just looking at me with those jealous eyes.
This is totally true. I print stuff that I could probably craft just because I've got a tool ready to make it happen while I work on something else. I craft much less these days as a result (not including basing for minis, etc.)
This was fun! I started watching BMC years ago as I was wanting to craft for fun. Then that got me onto the path of dnd. Then I eventually took the plunge into 3d printing and discovered your stuff. I find I have less time in my life for crafting and I am very appreciative of 3d printing. I tend to use both skills to get what I'm after. For me the benefit of 3d printing is I can be painting minis while the machine is doing its thing. But there is definitely a different satisfaction from crafting.
As a crafting DM turned 3D printer I loved this video! Learning how to make stone dungeon tiles from Jeremy all those years ago to learning good 3D print settings for FDM miniature printing from Danny, this is an awesome video of worlds colliding!
Great advice, I love using 3D printing as a tool to assist my crafting so I can focus on the aspects of crafting that I really enjoy
This is such an amazing video. Danny you are such a good interviewer! You should do more of these.
Another option though less available is milling/routing. I use a cnc router to carve tiles from the stl files, a 24x24 in area can be carved in foam in under an hour.
With my FDM I have printed mostly tile's. Specifically for the fact I print open-lock and connect them. Wood, stone, cavern, volcano, swamp, I'm sure more that I have forgotten. Pre-make up a set-up and keep pieces covered with paper or a sheet. Resin printer for miniature's and accessories with detail.
You're living the dream, Da Vinci! THE DREAM! I know a lot of folks who do this as well though. In fact, the tile printing community is what started the growth we see today in our community.
@@3DPrintedTabletop I'm just glad the price of decent printer's are as low as they are.
The Lost Adventures Kickstarter has trees that you should 100% 3D print. I've made a small forest just using 3D printed trees because of that Kickstarter and trees similar to it!
As the guy who put that KS together - I have to wholeheartedly agree :) When Jeremy was describing the kind of trees that he wouldn't want crafted...it was all the reasons why I love those trees too. I actually don't own any handmade/bought trees - printed is perfect for me and the way I play!
Really great video. The only thing I'd add is that I think BMC views crafting as an artistic process, whereas he views 3D printing as a production process, printing out a model you've downloaded from the Internet.
I'm an architect in real life, and whilst I enjoy a bit of terrain crafting from time to time, my skill level is nowhere near as high as his. I can't scratch build a house that looks as amazing as that one. But I sure as hell can 3d model it.
My printer allows me to actually print it out into a physical piece. For someone like me it's a game changer, I can bring my ideas to life in a way that wasn't possible before. And it's still a unique piece that nobody else has, which I made myself. I just used a different tool to make it.
3D print whatever sparks joy. I *really* don't enjoy the feeling of foam, so building my own terrain was always something I absolutely dreaded.
Whenever one of them was holding the other's build, the other one hovered over it oh-so protectively. It's the fiercest instinct of maker-of-things and collectors, and I could not stop chortling 😊 Watch their hands and their faces whenever the other person readjusts their grip.
Imma disagree on tiles for obvious reasons ;-)
The chat has been blessed with this comment :)
I made sure to leave in Jeremy's caveat about the big reasons why you'd want to print them (hint: they're exactly the kind you make) :D of course, I am of the same mind
I have to disagree as well, although I do a mix of both worlds. I use a lot of your models Devon and they are wonderful, but recently I created my own foam tiles similar to dwarven forge's edges and ledges to create negative space builds. They go so well with 3d printed tiles!
This comment🤣
Imma disagree on buildings for obvious reasons too! :D
A thing I missed is you can 3D print and still be involved in the design. You don't need to print other people's models, you can make your own
I agree! Neither of us are designers, but we both agree that it's definitely a form of crafting. And I think it's assumed: if you're making it, it's probably worth printing (at least for yourself)
This is like having mom and dad giving the best. In a strange but happy dungeon family.
I crafted following BMC tutorials for a long time. I got my 3d printer mainly because of Danny.
True respect.
Gotta be honest I'd use bit of resin to make rocks etc rather than getting into crafting my own terrain. That's probably because I don't have a typical hobby space, instead I have all of my miniature stuff in my recording studio, which is separated from my main house via a door.
Like my studio is pretty small so I don't have unlimited space for foamboard and other stuff like that so I'll just print the stuff out in my house and just paint it in the studio. Basically my entire hobby space for painting etc is one table with lights in the corner of the studio.
As a crafter and a 3D printer user, this video is awesome.
My favourite thing to craft are buildings, while I print miniatures. :D
I think print or craft boils down to what you personally enjoy. If you enjoy crafting but don't enjoy 3d printing you should always craft. Only if you enjoy both it makes sense to have this conversation. If you enjoy neither and just want the product there is also another answer: Buy it. Crafting and 3D printing both take considerable amounts of your personal time. After all this is a hobby, if you do not enjoy the process its probably cheaper to just buy the stuff.
honestly, for most of these i'd suggest doing both...craft whatever is decently doable to craft, and print the tiny things that require more details.
want a fountain? craft the base, maybe print some ornaments to put on it. want to build a house, craft the house, maybe print the smaller details (translucent resin/filament for the windows, print door handles or maybe full door,...)
these can also be combined, create 1 version of detailed things either by crafting or printing them, then turn those into a mold for resin or green stuff or...
no need to think about crafting VS printing. if you have a printer and love to craft, use them to support each other ^^
Jeremy and Danny you guys are awesome!!!! Thanks so much for all you do!
This was a lot of fun to watch.
The comparison between 3D printing and crafting always keeps me busy, not just for D&D stuff but also for stuff I make for work: should I design the 3D model and print it or do I just shape it from wood, plastic or any other material? I love to make stuff with my hands so what I can do by hand, I often will. Terrain pieces and building is something to be done by hand but doors, windows and detailed pieces that are easy to design in 3D; those I will design myself and print.
Designing miniatures needs a complete set of skills that I do not have so those I download an print. One of the big advantages, for me, of 3D printing miniatures is that I can print the same mini multiple times and try different techniques on them to see what works best for me.
I think a lot of it comes down to time and detail. Some details you can't get in one form of creation over the other. Some don't have time to hand craft an item, then paint it. Some have time to put a job on to print and then come home and use their free time to paint it. There's going to be some that don't have the patience to hand craft (and would get frustrated or have a room full of half finished project because they aren't turning out the way they want it to).
Great video guys! This is a really important consideration; how to integrate crafting and 3Dprinting. Personally, I'm getting an SLA printer soon and I'm really looking forward to being able to combine the two. Crafting say, a building, is mostly pretty easy, but certain bits - doors and windows for example - are time consuming. Other bits - intricate chimney pots, weather vanes, decorative carvings, etc - are very challenging to hand craft. With both approaches working together the sky is the limit!
Great video! Another thing I like about crafting is recycling.
Two of my favorite UA-cam crafters in one room... How the HECK did I miss this and why the heck hasn't UA-cam recommended this video sooner????
To make connecting dungeon tiles.
1. Just cut a small slit in the side of the tiles
2. Cut to length a small piece of a popsicle stick
3. Slide it in one side and glue it or just slide them in and out
Really good video.
Really liked this video.
As someone who has made terrain for years, done resin casting, and even has some award winning pieces - a lot of what said here certainly resonates.
I love the problem solving and creativity of making a piece.
But that is the first piece. If I need 10 of them - print them.
Heck, if it is something simple, and I can find a model - print it.
Also, if sci-fi - 3d printing is a lot easier - fantasy can have rough edges (wood, stone etc.) where as sci-fi is a lot more straight and clean lines, and 3d printing works well.
On sci-fi building pieces, I like to make the base building out of foamcore, and use TONS of 3d printed doors, vents and other greebles.
(the best of both worlds).
thanks for the video guys!
I think one thing that you guys forgot to mention (unless I missed it) is that printing can be much easier for people who dont have time and/or space to craft. With printing you can just import and press a button and not worry about it until its done, whereas crafting it takes some dedicated time away from other things. Plus crafting can be much messier and some people dont have dedicated space to get covered in glue and styrofoam. I really want to get into hand crafting terrain though, just gotta find the time
There was a lengthy convo about the time that got cut out (due to time :D), but we didn't cover space. I'll be honest, I find myself using the floor or cardboard boxes pretty often and just clean up afterwards. Sometimes it's harder to just do it than anything, even with the materials.
Thanks for the comment, Velrock!
I can craft faster than I can troubleshoot or babysit a machine. Neither venture’s time sinks are exactly what they seem on the surface.
With space. I have prints taking up more space than stuff I have crafted. I set the printer and go do something else, so I end up with stacks.
Pro tip, Da Vinci: Filament boxes usually fit stacks of tiles perfectly. Label em, and boom.
@@davinci3259 true, but I was more referring to a space where you could do the crafting, not necessarily where you store the pieces ;)
"Its spaghetti" - my favorite line from this video.
"if you're asking yourself if you should craft it or print it then print it" Great quote! Because its true, if you dont want to spend the time crafting something, even if it makes more sense, then its not worth it. And Vise versa, it might be a million times easier to print something but if you want to craft it, the satisfaction is worth the impracticality of it.
Awesome video, thanks for sharing!
3d printing is a crafters friend. It's a tool that can make special tools like custom texture rolling pins or printing small props to go in bigger pieces. Creating frames for buildings to make them sturdier.
@Black Magic Craft - Love the point about print vs. build. My process is to ask myself, will I be happier when I have reached the goal? Sometimes it's about learning new skills, expressing creativity, or the satisfaction of meeting the challenge. Sometimes it is just too much of a hassle given the joy received from the result. Solid wisdom for makers Jeremy.
Amazing video, this has reduced my anxiety and being overwhelmed with all the options for 3d print.
I like to supplement crafting with 3d printed components.
I would print smaller things, and them put them together like lego. And then add extra craft.
I had flashbacks of when I worked at a hobby store when I saw those little trees. I distinctly remember stocking those things saying, "$27.99… whuuuuuuut?"
you could very much both consider learning how to 3d model as it is in my mind the closest thing to a cross over between both the crafting and printing sides and adds an extra tool to your arsenal for instance those dumpsters he made could be modeled so that he could go trough the problem solving phase and then you have a unique creation all on your own that could easily be turned into an army of pieces that are identical because now you have the unique master file forever but you aren't limited to only making it when you have the motivation to repeat the process again
Sculpting is absolutely its own form of crafting IMO! It's on my ever growing to do list :)
3D Printing is awesome for mold making. Print it one time, make a mold and duplicate it when you need it whit plaster or resin.
To me, 3d printing has opened a world of possibilities while saving a lot, but I mean a LOT of time. I used to craft everything and I got good at it (I even sold my crafts and made a living with it). But now, I got a kid, a full time job and other stuff I want to do, so printing terrain and minis is just the way to go.
I still craft some stuff (like rocks and outdoors stuff) and I still have to paint everythinig, but now my between games time is spent on improving my world, NPCs, maps, etc. instead of worrying about a single encounter that I want to have in 3d.
funny how when you live in Winnipeg, December is still runners and hoodie weather if your just running out for a bit(couple of hours) If your from Miami a few more layers are required. Great watch guys, the wife is the crafter I'm the 3d printer and gamer this got us really thinking about how we approach stuff in our respective hobbies.
3d modelling your own stuff is a nice balance between coming up with stuff and "crafting" them and just pressing a button and printing multiple copies of the same thing without the tedium of repeating the steps over and over yourself. Just the painting part alone is enough "hands on" crafting for me.
Should you print or craft something? Yes. I have rarely been happy with a printed object on its own, but printing gribblies for a crafted project... that's pretty much spot on.
There is a critical factor that didn't come up here: time. It's a serious limitation for a lot of DMs who also have jobs and families to worry about.
Every hour I spend hand crafting awesome terrain is time I don't have for housework, parenting, game prep, game play, or sleep.
I'm in no way trying to put down or demean the people who prefer hand making things, because I have incredible respect for the love and effort they put into it, but we all have to make choices about how we prioritize our time.
Would I love the artistic process of hand building beautiful houses, pillars, scatter, and tiles? Yes, I would. I did sculpting for years when I was young, I enjoy problem solving, and making unique artwork is very appealing. I'm a creative person; that's why I love DMing in the first place.
However, I can set my 3D printer going before bedtime using files I downloaded, and by the time I get home from work I have a pile of terrain ready for a quick cleanup and paint. I can shave hundreds of hours of work out by printing, which means I can spend more time being a parent, friend, and DM for my group.
I absolutely agree, Cristia! These are my exact feelings. Some things I still do craft by hand, but these days I print a lot of it. I love what I print just as much, and after painting it and using it on the table...it's still incredibly fulfilling for me. That being said: I also love how interconnected so many hobbies are here with tabletop games - and I think most people gravitate towards the ones they enjoy the most. Thanks again for the comment , and happy printing!
I'm not into table top gaming but this was very interesting to watch. I was just thinking of an idea though. For the 12x12 (or whatever size) tiles, how about including a sheet metal layer close to the surface. With that, you can imbed small magnets (neodymium would be best) into your set pieces so that they'll stick to the tiles and won't get bumped around. With this method you could also pre-make a room and move it around without worrying about all the little bits and bobs falling off or shifting out of place. And it'll help with pieces that are really light and easily blown over.
Great video & super helpful for newbies. I was listening to this whilst folding laundry & wearing headphones & jumped when Luke popped in with his "How do guys?!" lol.
Such a good convo. Same thing in the drone world... Sometimes it's not worth 3D printing something when you can modify a dollar store item quickly and effectively.
For most of these I would resin 3D print one unit then make a mold and cast any more I need then you get the best of both worlds.
I got my 3d printer last Christmas. It could have been glorious. But every game I've played since then has been via roll20.
That said, my group has actually managed to pass 12 consecutive weeks of gaming sessions, which I personally haven't managed with any group since I left school.
I love how much interaction I see between all these guys, not just in the videos but like, the comments and stuff.
Dungeon tiles, what you can print is the foam rollers. They have the patterns on the roller and you just roll it on the foam. Finish with paint clear coat to harden.
This is such a cool conversation between two people totally passionate about their crafts. I appreciate this video a bunch, thanks for talking it out for us!
I'm a new DM so I'm watching this trying to figure out if I should delve head first into some of the pre made 3dp dungeon stuff, but i do appreciate the perspective of a crafter that is willing to look at things from the other side. He's able to separate pride over practicality which I feel is hard to do when you're talking about things that you created with your own hands and if people should take the shortcut over that craft.
I kinda disagree on dungeon tiles if you are using the openlock with spherical magnets, because they snap together, but they surely cost more than the foam tiles. And on the buildings, while they are breath taking, a lot of the buildings made by patreon's and companies are modular with interiors. So the buildings are lovely for world building and setting a theme, but if an enemy flees into a one of them it's nice to just take it apart piece by piece and keep the game going.
I'm with you on the buildings, also I'm not that creative, so could never get even close to what Jeremy has modelled. However, the City of Tarok building serve that purpose beautifully.
I specifically said printing dungeon tiles makes sense when utilizing locking mechanisms or wanting slots for magnets.
scratch build, hand craft, kitbash and now 3D print
the possibilities are endless with all the options available aren't they?
this is about your passions and interests. I agree with each perspective. you guys like to make imaginary worlds. and you both use different tools to achieve this goal. and each way is a unique challenge to overcome or adapt to. Keep up the good work and love the stuffs! :P
Wow two of my favorite UA-cam posts and one show love it!
Hope you will in some time in the future make a challenge with @Black Magic Craft Would like to see you on the foam cutter. :-P
This video is perfect for me. Long time BMC watcher and terrain crafter, still developing my 3d printing skills/bits. This helps me triage which projects to out into my "craft" queue and which into my "print" queue.
My Dwarven Forge collection is why I wanted a 3d printer. Print add on pieces and pieces that Dwarven Forge doesn't have, and for all the dungeon scatter, little fiddly bits, and of course for miniatures :)
Here is my tree formula. When ebay started I was the first person to sell N and z scale flexible trees here is the formula.
Copper phone wire,
latex mold builder,
latex paint and flocking or foliage.
Twist wire into tree forms, add green brown paint to latex rubber and brush on wire, let dry glue on foliage. They are flexible so transport easy and you can bend branches to suit the setting you build. :)
I enjoy the fact that you guys take the time to travel and meet each other for your collaboration. Keep up the good work guys.
I think it depends a lot on whether you want to design your own 3d model
using something like blender to actually make a 3d design not only can you very easily change something about it, but you also get into the mindset of what's going to happen during the battle as you're designing it
There is a place outside of your house where to can find actual rocks of any size for free.
🤣
Seriously though, that's fair, but they are a bit heavy if you tend to travel, and they don't often come with conveniently flat bottoms. Also my players might be tempted to throw them at each other if they were real rocks.
Back before there were dungeon tiles, we used posterboard with a grid drawn on it
My crafting goes back decades, just getting close to pulling the trigger on a 3D printer. Back in the day a couple decades ago, I started buying Hirst Arts molds, which I would consider a precursor to 3D printing terrain. I still cast pieces in dental plaster for terrain to this day.
Don't forget guys, that there's craft in making your own 3D models as well - for one-off pieces, your mind will wander as you model that arch.
Thank you much. I enjoy both your channels for a while now. I basically only print miniatures and craft the rest...
One thing for me personally is that I like 3D modeling as a form of that maker craft similar to doing it by hand but I also appreciate messing with physical making I'm actually torn and I'm glad the video fell that way
Asking one of the greatest UA-cam crafting personalities whether you should craft or print objects seems like a conversation that you don't really need to watch a video to know.
Good vid, some things I didn't consider when it comes to creating with 3D printer or crafting. One thing I thing was lost in this video though, especially when talking about buildings, is the 3D modeling process. Didn't seem like CAD was a factor in this discussion. Maybe Im wrong though. But people should keep the time and skill to use CAD in mind as well when making these decisions.
I made some trees, and some dead trees. the dead trees are so much more useful, you can pretend they have leaves (we're playing dnd for christsake! lol) and they dont crowd the board and you can see everything. So I started just gluing the armatures I bought for cheap on ebay onto little bases and bam, nice looking dead trees.
The best thing said in the vid:
Building them again is not problem solving, it's just repeated work.
Im going to have to remeber that, it maybe the reason I don't like building the same things over again.
I like the idea of crafting buildings and printing things like windows, doors, etc. Now where can I find those things to print?
At the very end, when you were playing with Jeremy's toys, I was envious.
Just a really fun video to watch. Thanks guys!
Big fan Danny but pretty much everything on this list I would rather print anyways. Looks cooler and having plug and print printers makes it that easy for me, the craft aspect is a different hobby entirely now aside from painting kind of thing for me
Awesome video guys - adult discussion.... run for president or a world leader somewhere....
Love seeing a new 3DPT video!. Thanks Danny!
I just finished building the menagerie section of module S2 White Plume Mountain, out of foam and plexiglas. There's NOOO way I could've 3d printed that! It would've weighed a TON, then I'd have had to have glued it together, etc.
One of the nice things about printing huge layouts like that is that you can use clips, and reuse those modular pieces. So you could have more than just the menagerie section. It would definitely weigh and take time though!
Your players are lucky to have you!
@@3DPrintedTabletop Thank you! One day, soon (as in, the next couple of months) I'll pick up a 3d printer. Most likely a Creality Ender 3. UA-cam recommended your video on it to me (which is how I found your channel) and you showing what a then $300 (now $169) 3d printer could accomplish just floored me. Don't know if I'd have the patience for a huge piece like the menagerie, tho :D