Nicole Rudolf has a video about why many think that people used to be much smaller, and I think this one is an example of a piece that maybe survived because of its small size. maybe it was made for a teenager and didn't get much wear before they grew out of it - and by itself it is not enough fabric to cut it up and remake into anything else. the buttons and some hooks were take off and likely repurposed but the bodice survived in such good condition - maybe purely because it was useless but too nice to just throw out
Or just short. I have several friends thats definitely have that length of their torso because they are short. I My underarm is maybe 8.6 inches at best and 5.4 tall. Hard to measure on your self
I was thinking the same thing about it being for a younger person. Possibly teen or preteen which might account for the different hook and eye placement as they were added at different times as the young lady grew. I was also thinking that might be why the belt piece doesn't have any closure. Maybe they just used pins since it didn't make sense to constantly add closures as they grew
Or maybe the piece originally was for an adult considerably bigger and later worked on to fit a smaller person. I believe that that's why so many small pieces "survived".
That looks about the size my daughter was when she was ten. So the original wearer was probably a younger human who grew out of this lovely bodice quickly.
Timely video....I am making a dress which I was thinking could benefit from a little boning ...in the same place as a massive dart and trying to figure out where to put the channeling...and watching this ...boom! The dart the channel! Thank you!
I love these videos that you do. I have a 1880s Bustle jacket the same size. It so tiny I had to take stuffing out of my Victorian Dress form just to get it on it. It's made from a patterned silk, brown cotton lining, and beautiful handstitched buttonholes, AND the buttons are made from Wood and covered with silk...It's so fragile that I'm afraid of taking it out of the box..Thanks for doing these deep dives... Rose
I am also of the consensus that this was for a Pre to younger teen, due to the size. Though as pointed out as well, it could just as well be a smaller framed adult as well. Whoever owned this dress definitely had a sense of style though. A very beautiful piece. Which we could have seen the skirt and other bits that went with it for a more complete picture.
Yes, please continue this series! 👍 I love history & appreciate your guidance to the details & extra info of times these items "lived". Appreciate you! ❣
"Tarlatan Gone Bad" - new band name?? What a nifty find, thanks for sharing and keep 'em coming!! Love seeing things done by other people and trying to figure out why!
I'm in my first semester of nursing school and for halloween I'm trying to recreate 1 of the 2 only confirmed photos of florence nightingale from the 1850s/60s she seems to love velvet ribbons cuz got dam i gotta order like a ton of rolls just for the trimmings
Since I've been binge watching your channel, there is A LOT to catch up on, I especially love the ones with the really old clothing & how they were made. I just said on one that maybe a child sized dress form would be an option for the tiny clothing? Maybe if you can't find one, you could make one which would be some good content, I've not seen anyone else do that. It amazes me how well clothing was made back then compared to the clothing of today.
I think the small seams on the side of the bodice next sleeves might have been to hold the fabric down as it might have slightly puckered, giving away the smooth back illusion. After all, a meticulously crafted piece 🤩
You are doing great. I like these segments. I make 1840s costumes. Yes, there are one or two bones in the front bodice darts. Side darts too. The hooks in the front at least on mine is a place for my corset laces and to help hold up the skirts. The armscye are so snug. Right under the armpit. The sleeves are a lot more off the shoulder and yes piping everywhere! So, these I believe fed into the 1850s fashions. The two part sleeves are cut not the way we cut our sleeves today. Looks like how the Grinch cut out his costume from cloth... half moon shaped. Really odd but it works. Does that dress have piping on the outer seam of the sleeves? I could not quite tell. That piping is really small. Much smaller than mine. Thanks for sharing that. So helpful to see an extant garment. I am thrilled to watch you make your 1850s costumes. Close enough to my time period so I am sure I will learn a lot. The petticoats are a pain. I have been on film sets in 1840s costumes and the bulky, heavy petticoats are a pain.
Thanks! Were you asking about piping on the long outer seam of the sleeves? If so, no, there's none there. And that's one of the reasons I chose a late 1850s fashion plate -- I get to wear mine over a hoopskirt, so I only have two other petticoats with it. 😉
In Janet Arnold's pattern of a 1855 wedding dress, the centre back lining has a dart with a bone inside. I guess it was pretty standard. Thanks for the video, I am starting an 1850s day bodice and seeing an original so up close will help me!!
My first thought was that the strip was a decoration going vertically up the front and down the back, and it seems to be confirmed. I believe the term is "bretelle" or "revers". Also, I think that *might* be self fringe made from the fashion fabric.
Great find! Not really my era but a pretty one nonetheless. I wondered if that sash piece was part of the skirt that may have gone with it until you found the stitches. Another antique around my size (32B-24W-6.5L), though I’m sure it survived because she outgrew it unlike me at 27. Hehe
Amazing that this piece survived! I am looking forward to the historical series you mentioned. Those are my favorite kinds of videos. Love to see the way fashions change and evolve.
Pure speculation of course, but it seems not as complex as some other of your bodices (minimal piecing) so it might have been for a younger person, say 10-13? But that’s probably why it’s held up so well. Less wear and fewer places for breakdown! Also, with all of the buttons missing on such a well maintained garment, is it possible they were removed for another purpose? Such a fun series!
Yeah, I'm pretty sure the buttons were taken for something else once they realized that this either didn't fit or was no longer in fashion. It's probably for a younger person, but probably a young woman (like teens or so) since there's so much of a size difference between waist and bust.
The only good thing about me being so small is I'm the average size of an 1860s women and my living history friends have a good idea about draping and proportions back then by using my body.
The most center one goes with that little secret hook at the center front of the bodice, but the other one would be turned perpendicular if it was for the skirt, so I'm not sure what it goes with. It could be there used to be a belt or other decoration that attached there.
I thought fringe was super rare because of expense back then because they didn't have machine made trim yet..... not sure who did a video on that, but it might have been Nicole Rudolph or maybe Abby Cox's video on flappers?
I don't think it was rare, but it was considered a very nice embellishment, because it was handmade. You see fringe on a lot of pieces throughout history, though.
So out of curiosity I measured my 11 year old daughter. Her waist isn't even 22 inches, so this lady was teeny tiny. The length would have fit her well, so she wasn't tall either. I'm thinking this was for a pre-teen or very small teenager who was underfed.
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Nicole Rudolf has a video about why many think that people used to be much smaller, and I think this one is an example of a piece that maybe survived because of its small size. maybe it was made for a teenager and didn't get much wear before they grew out of it - and by itself it is not enough fabric to cut it up and remake into anything else. the buttons and some hooks were take off and likely repurposed but the bodice survived in such good condition - maybe purely because it was useless but too nice to just throw out
Yep, survival bias is a thing!
Or just short. I have several friends thats definitely have that length of their torso because they are short. I
My underarm is maybe 8.6 inches at best and 5.4 tall. Hard to measure on your self
Lol, I was going to say the same thing!
I was thinking the same thing about it being for a younger person. Possibly teen or preteen which might account for the different hook and eye placement as they were added at different times as the young lady grew. I was also thinking that might be why the belt piece doesn't have any closure. Maybe they just used pins since it didn't make sense to constantly add closures as they grew
Or maybe the piece originally was for an adult considerably bigger and later worked on to fit a smaller person. I believe that that's why so many small pieces "survived".
That looks about the size my daughter was when she was ten. So the original wearer was probably a younger human who grew out of this lovely bodice quickly.
Timely video....I am making a dress which I was thinking could benefit from a little boning ...in the same place as a massive dart and trying to figure out where to put the channeling...and watching this ...boom! The dart the channel!
Thank you!
I love that you figured out where the trim was fastened. Such a great accent on this fantastic bodice. Thanks for the viewing.
I love these videos that you do.
I have a 1880s Bustle jacket the same size. It so tiny I had to take stuffing out of my Victorian Dress form just to get it on it.
It's made from a patterned silk, brown cotton lining, and beautiful handstitched buttonholes, AND the buttons are made from Wood and covered with silk...It's so fragile that I'm afraid of taking it out of the box..Thanks for doing these deep dives...
Rose
going to enjoy the year by year fashion of the 1850s and 1860s!
I am also of the consensus that this was for a Pre to younger teen, due to the size. Though as pointed out as well, it could just as well be a smaller framed adult as well. Whoever owned this dress definitely had a sense of style though. A very beautiful piece. Which we could have seen the skirt and other bits that went with it for a more complete picture.
So cool getting to see all the construction.
I love the idea that the pagoda sleeves were cut down to make the shoulder strips.
Darn that’s so small! What a wonderful find. Thanks for showing it to us. It’s beautiful.
The cloth is so beautiful!!!!!!
Yes, please continue this series! 👍 I love history & appreciate your guidance to the details & extra info of times these items "lived". Appreciate you! ❣
The proportions strike me as a juniors size, as others have said it may have been a young teen's dress
Thank you for the informative look into the mid-victorian bodice. I never knew it was called a 'fiddle back'.
"Tarlatan Gone Bad" - new band name??
What a nifty find, thanks for sharing and keep 'em coming!! Love seeing things done by other people and trying to figure out why!
I'm in my first semester of nursing school and for halloween I'm trying to recreate 1 of the 2 only confirmed photos of florence nightingale from the 1850s/60s she seems to love velvet ribbons cuz got dam i gotta order like a ton of rolls just for the trimmings
Can't blame her for loving velvet ribbons! 😉 A girl after my own heart!
She is SO PERFECT!!! How exciting. I always love your deep dive looks. Always want more!
Such a lovely garment, it would fit my daughter who is 22 and tiny.
Since I've been binge watching your channel, there is A LOT to catch up on, I especially love the ones with the really old clothing & how they were made. I just said on one that maybe a child sized dress form would be an option for the tiny clothing? Maybe if you can't find one, you could make one which would be some good content, I've not seen anyone else do that. It amazes me how well clothing was made back then compared to the clothing of today.
I think the small seams on the side of the bodice next sleeves might have been to hold the fabric down as it might have slightly puckered, giving away the smooth back illusion.
After all, a meticulously crafted piece 🤩
Love it! Thank you❤️
You are doing great. I like these segments. I make 1840s costumes. Yes, there are one or two bones in the front bodice darts. Side darts too. The hooks in the front at least on mine is a place for my corset laces and to help hold up the skirts. The armscye are so snug. Right under the armpit. The sleeves are a lot more off the shoulder and yes piping everywhere! So, these I believe fed into the 1850s fashions. The two part sleeves are cut not the way we cut our sleeves today. Looks like how the Grinch cut out his costume from cloth... half moon shaped. Really odd but it works. Does that dress have piping on the outer seam of the sleeves? I could not quite tell. That piping is really small. Much smaller than mine. Thanks for sharing that. So helpful to see an extant garment. I am thrilled to watch you make your 1850s costumes. Close enough to my time period so I am sure I will learn a lot. The petticoats are a pain. I have been on film sets in 1840s costumes and the bulky, heavy petticoats are a pain.
Thanks! Were you asking about piping on the long outer seam of the sleeves? If so, no, there's none there. And that's one of the reasons I chose a late 1850s fashion plate -- I get to wear mine over a hoopskirt, so I only have two other petticoats with it. 😉
In Janet Arnold's pattern of a 1855 wedding dress, the centre back lining has a dart with a bone inside. I guess it was pretty standard.
Thanks for the video, I am starting an 1850s day bodice and seeing an original so up close will help me!!
My first thought was that the strip was a decoration going vertically up the front and down the back, and it seems to be confirmed. I believe the term is "bretelle" or "revers".
Also, I think that *might* be self fringe made from the fashion fabric.
It's definitely a different trim that matches well.
Great find! Not really my era but a pretty one nonetheless. I wondered if that sash piece was part of the skirt that may have gone with it until you found the stitches.
Another antique around my size (32B-24W-6.5L), though I’m sure it survived because she outgrew it unlike me at 27. Hehe
That's such a beautiful piece of art and history, and to think it was in the bargain basement. Thanks for having me over!
Amazing that this piece survived! I am looking forward to the historical series you mentioned. Those are my favorite kinds of videos. Love to see the way fashions change and evolve.
I found you by accident, you're exactly what I was looking for, super interesting
Keep up the good work, I'm a fan now
Thank you! ❤️
What a very pretty little lady❤ it was very interesting hearing about her, can't wait for the rest of the series❤
Wow it was amazing to see the bodice… was it for a young lady, hence the fashion change?
It was almost definitely for a young lady based just on the size alone.
She is in absolutely wonderful condition. Such a gorgeous piece. I was wondering if that would be a typical middle class garment or. more upper class?
I would think more middle class, but to be honest, I'm not really sure.
Belt piece could have been a "fichu" collar tacked in place like the "binding" of bodice collar or tied round the waist and brooched.
Pure speculation of course, but it seems not as complex as some other of your bodices (minimal piecing) so it might have been for a younger person, say 10-13? But that’s probably why it’s held up so well. Less wear and fewer places for breakdown! Also, with all of the buttons missing on such a well maintained garment, is it possible they were removed for another purpose? Such a fun series!
Yeah, I'm pretty sure the buttons were taken for something else once they realized that this either didn't fit or was no longer in fashion. It's probably for a younger person, but probably a young woman (like teens or so) since there's so much of a size difference between waist and bust.
The only good thing about me being so small is I'm the average size of an 1860s women and my living history friends have a good idea about draping and proportions back then by using my body.
Thought for the extra piece a detachable collar
The chunky thread loops, could they be the companions to hooks on the skirt? To keep them from separating?
The most center one goes with that little secret hook at the center front of the bodice, but the other one would be turned perpendicular if it was for the skirt, so I'm not sure what it goes with. It could be there used to be a belt or other decoration that attached there.
I thought fringe was super rare because of expense back then because they didn't have machine made trim yet..... not sure who did a video on that, but it might have been Nicole Rudolph or maybe Abby Cox's video on flappers?
I don't think it was rare, but it was considered a very nice embellishment, because it was handmade. You see fringe on a lot of pieces throughout history, though.
I wonder if this was once a larger garment that was cut down to a smaller size. Perhaps for a child/pre-teen?
I don't think it was cut down, but possibly changed for a different style (like how the fringe trim was taken off)
🇨🇦😃
So out of curiosity I measured my 11 year old daughter. Her waist isn't even 22 inches, so this lady was teeny tiny. The length would have fit her well, so she wasn't tall either. I'm thinking this was for a pre-teen or very small teenager who was underfed.
how were under pants evolving or were pantalettes common at this point?
Split-crotch drawers stayed the same for almost the entire Victorian era!
Screaming teenager to me. What a lovely job she did in sewing 🪡 🧵
Same here! Especially with the fringe that would have been pricey but fashion forward.