Great talk about a GREAT symphony. It took me back nearly 50 years to the first time I encountered this masterwork. I had bought the Dorati & Philharmonia Hungarica box set - a revelation from beginning to end. I don’t think any other piece of music has ever intoxicated me on first acquaintance as much as this brilliant and inventive symphony. (I was teetotal at the time!) Sheer Genius!
Dave, I do enjoy your sense of humor ("nicknames make life easier" and other considerations) as I do enjoy symphonies sublimating the use of harmonic sequences inherited from baroque music. These symphonies are : 48, 44, 42, 51 and 65. So exciting !
Only commenting here to say that I have finally embarked upon the crusade. I realized that 104/2 = 52, the number of weeks in a year, so my only resolution was to finally get to know every Haydn symphony one week at a time, and using your videos as a guide. So I’m up to 4 and won’t get to this until I think the first week of December. Really enjoying it so far.
Thank you Dave, I love a good tune and this is the earliest Haydn symphony that really grabbed me by the throat, I'm grateful you could explain why. BTW I love Capella Istropolitana , I have all the big sets but there is something rough but innately gutsy and musical about their string playing that keeps me coming back to them. Also I have heard you say a couple times but pretty sure Maria Theresa/Theresia is the same old bat, they called Marie Antoinette (her daughter) "Maria Antonia" in German-speaking countries for similar linguistic reasons, this was the era were you changed the spelling of your name depending on where you were.
Thanks for your perceptive analysis of a favorite Haydn symphony (at least it's one of my favorites). The amazing thing is that with all the extensions, diversions and pauses, the music never loses its continuity. How is that possible? Can't wait to hear your exposition of No. 49.
What a wonderful lecture, Dave, thank you once again! Haydn 48 (more than its 20, 38 or 41, I guess) is possibly the earliest and deepest root in symphony history of Mozart's Jupiter and Beethoven's Fifth afflatus. After the 48, no symphony in C (minor/major) sounded like before. See you next with "La Passione"!
The approach at the start of the first movement (a sort of 'introduction', followed by a restatement of the opening idea) is similar to that used by Mozart at the start of the 'Jupiter' Symphony some 19 years later, with the difference that the two statements in the Haydn both start out loudly, whereas in the Mozart, the first one is loud and the second one is softer. Here are two masters using similar strategies at the same points in C major symphonic masterpieces.
I’m so glad we have these talks. I was inspired to look up your Haydn book- $70 used on Amazon! I’m going to order some others before they suffer the same fate…
Hi Dave, an exhilarating symphony; I have a thrilling if slightly manic versio by Maksymiuk. It's just a little two fast for me and am contemplating the old Janigro recording (I like my Haydn to sound heavyweight) but he used an alternative opening with a lower octave on the horns which I rather like, but you and many others may regard as heresy?
@@DavesClassicalGuide I anticipated that response and respect it but might just have it as a guilty pleasure! Thanks for switching me on to Haydn symphonies, all started by your enthusiasm for Bernstein's superb Paris set
@@DavesClassicalGuide if it was available as a single cd I would opt for the excellent Marriner version. I thought guilty pleasurrs could be a good playlist subject! I will submit my recording of Dvorak New World symphony played on classical guitar by Yamashota!
Your commentary here makes me wonder whether a development section is a transition between exposition and recapitulation sections OR whether the development section is the core of a sonata allegro movement with the exposition basically a preparation for the development while the recapitulation is a summarising wind-up of the foregoing proceedings. If the rounded binary form is the forerunner of the sonata allegro form, then the development would be primarily a magnified transition. However, maybe sonata allegro form goes somewhere well beyond rounded binary form. At least in some sonata allegro movements is the development the point of the whole rather than a transit?
It can be either. Rules are unhelpful. You need to take each work as it comes. Haydn's movements are developments at all stages. Mozart's, often, are not. Beethoven because more like Mozart and wound up more like Haydn, but as I said, you can't predict. The form should be dictated by the material and the composer's vision, and the fun lies in figuring that out.
I would like to know your opinion about max goberman's quasi-integral on odyssey....to know...? essential...? curiosity...?...max goberman, it was he who conducted the music for the film west side story (1961)
Have you given up on the Bach Cantata Schlep? I am sure there are thousands of disappointed fans who are getting desperate to increase their knowledge of Lutheran liturgical music 😊😊😊
Regarding Haydn's symphony#48, I prefer Adam Fischer's version. Fischer's tempo, enthusiasm, precision, and articulation are superior to all others. Dave, the first movement version you played is awfully slow and unexciting.
Please. I have the whole set, have heard it a zillion times, and that's so not the point of this discussion. Sometimes Fischer is better than others, sometimes not.
Agreed that focus was on Haydn's genius as such. By the way, I like the Pinnock's version on Arkiv: vigorous yet lively and - thanks God - complete with trumpets and timpani!
@@claudiofornasari1263 Yes, Pinnock is a good choice, so is Orpheus Chamber Orchestra on DG (also with trumpets and timpani) for those who prefer modern instruments but still with some historically-informed performance influence.
Great talk about a GREAT symphony. It took me back nearly 50 years to the first time I encountered this masterwork. I had bought the Dorati & Philharmonia Hungarica box set - a revelation from beginning to end. I don’t think any other piece of music has ever intoxicated me on first acquaintance as much as this brilliant and inventive symphony. (I was teetotal at the time!) Sheer Genius!
Dave, I do enjoy your sense of humor ("nicknames make life easier" and other considerations) as I do enjoy symphonies sublimating the use of harmonic sequences inherited from baroque music. These symphonies are : 48, 44, 42, 51 and 65. So exciting !
Only commenting here to say that I have finally embarked upon the crusade. I realized that 104/2 = 52, the number of weeks in a year, so my only resolution was to finally get to know every Haydn symphony one week at a time, and using your videos as a guide. So I’m up to 4 and won’t get to this until I think the first week of December. Really enjoying it so far.
That's great. Take your time and enjoy the view!
Thank you Dave, I love a good tune and this is the earliest Haydn symphony that really grabbed me by the throat, I'm grateful you could explain why. BTW I love Capella Istropolitana , I have all the big sets but there is something rough but innately gutsy and musical about their string playing that keeps me coming back to them. Also I have heard you say a couple times but pretty sure Maria Theresa/Theresia is the same old bat, they called Marie Antoinette (her daughter) "Maria Antonia" in German-speaking countries for similar linguistic reasons, this was the era were you changed the spelling of your name depending on where you were.
Thanks for your perceptive analysis of a favorite Haydn symphony (at least it's one of my favorites). The amazing thing is that with all the extensions, diversions and pauses, the music never loses its continuity. How is that possible? Can't wait to hear your exposition of No. 49.
What a wonderful lecture, Dave, thank you once again!
Haydn 48 (more than its 20, 38 or 41, I guess) is possibly the earliest and deepest root in symphony history of Mozart's Jupiter and Beethoven's Fifth afflatus. After the 48, no symphony in C (minor/major) sounded like before.
See you next with "La Passione"!
The moment the horns enter in the second movement is fantastic!
The approach at the start of the first movement (a sort of 'introduction', followed by a restatement of the opening idea) is similar to that used by Mozart at the start of the 'Jupiter' Symphony some 19 years later, with the difference that the two statements in the Haydn both start out loudly, whereas in the Mozart, the first one is loud and the second one is softer. Here are two masters using similar strategies at the same points in C major symphonic masterpieces.
So good to have audio clips! Bravo Dave and Naxos,
I’m so glad we have these talks. I was inspired to look up your Haydn book- $70 used on Amazon! I’m going to order some others before they suffer the same fate…
Oy! I hate my publisher.
Oy - indeed!
I can't wait for the next installment! Why are Haydn's string quartets identified by their opus numbers and they symphonies not?
That is how they were published.
Is the crusade set on hold? Didn't see any newer than #48.
Not at all.
Hi Dave, an exhilarating symphony; I have a thrilling if slightly manic versio by Maksymiuk. It's just a little two fast for me and am contemplating the old Janigro recording (I like my Haydn to sound heavyweight) but he used an alternative opening with a lower octave on the horns which I rather like, but you and many others may regard as heresy?
It's disgusting. C alto means C alto.
@@DavesClassicalGuide I anticipated that response and respect it but might just have it as a guilty pleasure! Thanks for switching me on to Haydn symphonies, all started by your enthusiasm for Bernstein's superb Paris set
@@stradivariouspaul1232 My please. Just keep those C altos alto (and don't tell anyone about your guilty pleasures!).
@@DavesClassicalGuide if it was available as a single cd I would opt for the excellent Marriner version. I thought guilty pleasurrs could be a good playlist subject! I will submit my recording of Dvorak New World symphony played on classical guitar by Yamashota!
Your commentary here makes me wonder whether a development section is a transition between exposition and recapitulation sections OR whether the development section is the core of a sonata allegro movement with the exposition basically a preparation for the development while the recapitulation is a summarising wind-up of the foregoing proceedings. If the rounded binary form is the forerunner of the sonata allegro form, then the development would be primarily a magnified transition. However, maybe sonata allegro form goes somewhere well beyond rounded binary form. At least in some sonata allegro movements is the development the point of the whole rather than a transit?
It can be either. Rules are unhelpful. You need to take each work as it comes. Haydn's movements are developments at all stages. Mozart's, often, are not. Beethoven because more like Mozart and wound up more like Haydn, but as I said, you can't predict. The form should be dictated by the material and the composer's vision, and the fun lies in figuring that out.
I would like to know your opinion about max goberman's quasi-integral on odyssey....to know...? essential...? curiosity...?...max goberman, it was he who conducted the music for the film west side story (1961)
Have you given up on the Bach Cantata Schlep? I am sure there are thousands of disappointed fans who are getting desperate to increase their knowledge of Lutheran liturgical music 😊😊😊
No, but schlep is a schlep. It's schlepping. Big time. You gotta be in the mood.
Isn’t THAT the truth. With that said however, I’d love to learn about another cantata to tie me over for the next few months.
Regarding Haydn's symphony#48, I prefer Adam Fischer's version. Fischer's tempo, enthusiasm, precision, and articulation are superior to all others. Dave, the first movement version you played is awfully slow and unexciting.
Please. I have the whole set, have heard it a zillion times, and that's so not the point of this discussion. Sometimes Fischer is better than others, sometimes not.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Yes-I agree. The point of your video is the particular Haydn composition and NOT the version.................
Agreed that focus was on Haydn's genius as such. By the way, I like the Pinnock's version on Arkiv: vigorous yet lively and - thanks God - complete with trumpets and timpani!
The thing he has the permission by Naxos to put music samples. He can't just put them online without consent (well, to be legally ok) ;)
@@claudiofornasari1263 Yes, Pinnock is a good choice, so is Orpheus Chamber Orchestra on DG (also with trumpets and timpani) for those who prefer modern instruments but still with some historically-informed performance influence.