Cleric is Bonkers now in One D&D! - Player’s Handbook Playtest 6 UA

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  • Опубліковано 22 лис 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 292

  • @PackTactics
    @PackTactics  Рік тому +112

    I showed the wrong domain spell list at 8:02 ... Sorry... I also misspoke about the wish thing. I meant resistance to all damage types, not immune.

    • @Zoddlander
      @Zoddlander Рік тому +3

      Why remove Polymorph for Trickery Domain??? Love the Addition of Invisibility! the Cupcake scene from Critical role will not happen with this one, but I'm ok with it!
      I agree that the war cleric should get some sortof feature equal to War caster! but more like being able to cast spells and make weapon attacks!

    • @Razdasoldier
      @Razdasoldier Рік тому +3

      See They said "Fuck you" to the half of all class in the game (until Artificer) that got the subclass before level 3 (Sorcerer, Cleric, Warlock, Druid, and Wizard vs Barbarian, Bard, Fighter, Ranger, Paladin, Rogue)

    • @M9Seradon
      @M9Seradon Рік тому

      ​@@Razdasoldierit's part of the really badly done testing they did in previous UAs where because people didn't really realize they were testing standardized subclass progression the results became skewed towards standardizing subclasses to level 3 and leaving the rest of progression the same. As a Sorc main all I can say is to hell with that.

    • @eliascabbio7598
      @eliascabbio7598 Рік тому +1

      The subclass choice has returned as original in 5e, but first step is all at 3rd level, they said it in the interview.

    • @SmokeSolo1975
      @SmokeSolo1975 Рік тому

      Moon druid is even more tanks as ever. Use level 5 feature to swap spell slots to wildshape.
      Every wildshape a moon druid does grant a minimum of 3 x druid level in temp hp.
      Take a bit of barbarian and you have 15 temp hp every spell slot with reaitence to damage.

  • @1.21jiggawatts2
    @1.21jiggawatts2 Рік тому +277

    This UA is getting out of hand. We need to have a *Divine* Intervention with the game designers

    • @JJV7243
      @JJV7243 Рік тому +3

      Freaking awesome comment - get my thumbs up.

    • @joshuakanapkey6570
      @joshuakanapkey6570 Рік тому +1

      💯

    • @samuelbroad11
      @samuelbroad11 Рік тому +2

      what are they doing with all their time? learning to spell em oh en kay?

    • @tomerw2783
      @tomerw2783 Рік тому

      Amen to that

  • @macromondo8026
    @macromondo8026 Рік тому +182

    Whoever's in charge of writting the Full Caster Classes should be in charge of writting the Martials, maybe then they could get some awesome features/much-needed buffs (Looking at you Monk!)

    • @josephpotter5766
      @josephpotter5766 Рік тому +59

      Oh my sweet summer child! The person in charge of writing the full casters probably IS in charge of the martial classes, that's WHY they've been so nerfed. Designer favoratism is a tradition in D&D, you never let people who like casters write non-casters, or visa versa, it's a surefire way to ensure that the classes they don't have a preference for get hammered into the ground.

    • @macromondo8026
      @macromondo8026 Рік тому +26

      @@josephpotter5766 We've Been Tricked, We've Been Backstabbed and We've Been Quite Possibly, Bamboozled!

    • @nickm9102
      @nickm9102 Рік тому +3

      @@josephpotter5766 So they need to find someone who likes Gish Characters that way we get one of two things. Good classes all around, or total garbage as they try to compensate weapons over spells on one class and something totally inverted on the next.

    • @artallaudo2034
      @artallaudo2034 Рік тому +6

      Martial classes feel good at early levels, but scale so low when comparing to full casters spells. I always say that it should be applied an ability check when trying to cast magic, using high level spells should be hard and require materials, only a last resource choice. Most campaigns do not keep the amount of daily fights so high as it is recommended in the DM book, causing all casters to be OP.

    • @nickm9102
      @nickm9102 Рік тому +2

      @@artallaudo2034 I understand your argument but it is inherently flawed. You are saying that magic users are too powerful because players choose to ignore the number of recommended encounters for an adventuring day. Also the Idea that you should only use your most powerful tools as a last resort isn't the best strategy for every environment.
      While there are real world examples let's look at this from the PoV of your character. You come across 6 kobolds and they attack the party you will be concerned for your safety but you have very little doubt that your party will be ok after the fight. Now come across an Ancient Dragon, now you know it can easily kill you, are you going to use the same level of force you did against the Kobolds now or are you going to try to end the threat before it ends you? Now for a situation where scaled escalation seems appropriate an Illithid and 6 Intellect devourers. You are inclined to think one guy and a few dogs should be an easy fight until the Psionics are realized and/or you realize the brain dogs are eating you brains then you realize that you need to end this fight yesterday.
      Now I understand that I won't find anything a martial class can do that companies to Meteor Swarm 40d6 save for 1/2 (140/70 dmg average) for 1 Action
      Now let's look at Fighter 20 (we are talking about high power abilities) with a great sword.
      4 attacks with STR 20 and great weapon Master you are looking at 8d6+60 no save ( 88 dmg average)
      Now round 2 Abi-Dalzim's Horrid wilting 12d8 save for 1/2 (52/26)
      Fighter repeats Round 1 (88 dmg)
      So 192 dmg for wizard,172 for fighter
      Now Round 3 since most combats reach it.
      Wizard: Finger of Death 7d8+30 (62/31 dmg)
      Fighter: repeats Round 1 (88 dmg)
      So 254 Wizard, 264 fighter at round 3
      Disintegrate is 75/0 dmg so fighter out paces damage at round 3 and continues to gain ground.
      Barbarian with GWM and max STR is a consistent 46
      Monk w/h max DEX (21 dmg, monk needs help)
      Rogue 42 with sneak attack 62 w/h sharpshooter
      Ranger/Sharpshooter (41 dmg)
      Paladin/GWM (43 dmg)
      Sorcerers can match the wizard spells but warlock is worse with
      power word kill (100/0 Dmg)
      Maddening Darkness 8d8 (36/18 dmg)
      Finger of Death 62/31 dmg)
      Circle of Death 8d6 (28/14 dmg)
      Other casters are worse as bards have no 6th ot 8th lvl Offense spells Druids have no 9th lvl Offense spells and clerics have no offensive 9th or 8th lvl spells and in all of their cases upcasting the best Offensive spell is worse than the Wizard counterpart.
      So casters might be able to put out the biggest punch but it's once a day and can be outpaced easily after a few rounds of combat by most of the other classes.

  • @charmandenator5686
    @charmandenator5686 Рік тому +161

    The designers decided to not only stop standardizing, but also keep subclasses at level 3, thereby annoying everyone simultaneously

    • @nickm9102
      @nickm9102 Рік тому +5

      But getting your subclass at level 3 is a good thing because now you can't take a single level MC and get anything that might be mediocre. 🤣

    • @josciety5579
      @josciety5579 Рік тому +17

      How the hell do warlocks and sorcerers not get their subclass until level 3 when their subclass is what gives them their powers??

    • @Merilirem
      @Merilirem Рік тому +6

      @@josciety5579 I can only imagine sorcerers don't manifest or discover the source until level 3. Warlocks? No idea.

    • @burnpisces7733
      @burnpisces7733 Рік тому +3

      @@nickm9102 You can simply make the rules so that when you take this class at player level 1 you get your subclass. Otherwise you don’t get the subclass until level 2 or 3 to make multiclassing a little weaker.

    • @anthonywalden239
      @anthonywalden239 Рік тому +9

      ​@@josciety5579Your bloodline and pact give you access to magical abilities. As you grow stronger the abilities grow as well moving from generic magic to somewhat thematic abilities and continuing to grow as you level (with you subclass features)

  • @000Dragon50000
    @000Dragon50000 Рік тому +11

    In the sorcerer playtest I was mainly focused on telling them to stop turning features into spells and basically begging them to base the Sorcerer's spell list on their bloodline like how PF2e handles it.

  • @mythicalthings1796
    @mythicalthings1796 Рік тому +85

    Here at OneDND we have
    1. Less flavor!
    2. We finally gave crumbs to the martials! Not enough to actually make them good, but hey!
    3. Clerics have Infinite wish!
    4. Wizards have infinite concentration!
    5. Absolutely 0 quality of life changes! In fact we made it harder!

    • @Simon-Sax
      @Simon-Sax Рік тому +8

      Sounds way worse then what we got with 5e tbh

    • @mohammadmurie
      @mohammadmurie Рік тому +22

      6. You thought we were just going to give martials crumbs, nah we still going to be nerfing them just this time there is also going to be new ways we do it

    • @CreamCakes420
      @CreamCakes420 Рік тому +9

      @@mohammadmuriethey stole are bread then gave back crumbs

    • @mohammadmurie
      @mohammadmurie Рік тому +7

      @christiandidonna8808 yes exactly, martials used to be just given bread while spellcasters were getting food made by a Hell's Kitchen winner, now martials are justing getting the crumbs of their old bread while spellcasters are upgraded to being served by Gordon Ramsey himself

    • @stephaniehonaker3335
      @stephaniehonaker3335 Рік тому +6

      there is one silver lining, people are curious about pathfinder 2e so they are trying new systems.

  • @mr.m4302
    @mr.m4302 Рік тому +19

    I hope Wish be VERY REVISED, because they really want Clerics and Sorcerers cast it frequently.

  • @nadirku
    @nadirku Рік тому +13

    In some of the design commentary videos they released on the UA's they specifically called out that "shifting all classes to get their subclass at level 3" was a separate thing from "standardizing subclass levels for all subclasses", at least in their minds, and that they were intending to continue with that change to subclass progression.

    • @VimyGlide
      @VimyGlide Рік тому +10

      so they literally got rid of the best part of the subclass leveling change and kept the worst part of it.
      very WOTC, tbh.

    • @josciety5579
      @josciety5579 Рік тому

      Meaning classes like warlock, sorcerer, and cleric that all have their subclass as the source of the power now don’t have a source for their power until three levels of having power
      Fuck WotC

  • @Sangtrone
    @Sangtrone Рік тому +5

    Classes should get a feature at every level with ASI/Feats and subclass features being a bonus on top of that. The key is to make 5 or so core class features that get upgraded at every tier (about every 5 levels). Full spell casting can take up 9-10 levels, essentially replacing 2 features every tier. For half casters, 5 levels, replacing 1 feature every tier. This gives a lot of room to do interesting things for non-casters. Since ASIs would no longer interfere with class features, you could go back to making ASI/Feat progression independent of class levels and tie it to overall character level so multi-class characters don't miss out on them like in previous editions. You could even expand that to subclasses, tie it to character level, but you only get to take one subclass. This would be a convenient place to stick features that you don't interact well with multiclassing.

  • @ZeoffArcaneOfficial
    @ZeoffArcaneOfficial Рік тому +19

    I know it'd be a buff, but I absolutely wish they kept more of the Scholar option in Divine Order. Being able to pick 2 skills to power with wisdom was a lot better than just 1 and being forced on religion.
    I'd be happy enough if it was just religion and one more of your choice at least.
    Also, you definitely put the war domain spell list on the Light cleric

    • @barcster2003
      @barcster2003 Рік тому +1

      I gotta agree I think the religion check should be default. keep protector the thurmaturge should be a magical choice and maybe have that 3rd option be skills like what scholar was doing.

    • @ZeoffArcaneOfficial
      @ZeoffArcaneOfficial Рік тому +1

      @@barcster2003 yeah, religion, a cantrip, and one other skill would be good. It'd be more inline with what the non-heavy armor subclasses got at the least

  • @TheRealFacemanguy
    @TheRealFacemanguy Рік тому +86

    I really don’t like the direction of replacing class features with spells that just kinda sucks.

    • @TheGloryXros
      @TheGloryXros Рік тому +14

      I agree, it just makes Mages seem alot more powerful in general since their gameplay is what everything else hinges on.

    • @PackTactics
      @PackTactics  Рік тому +25

      I'm usually fine with it like the way they do it with Glamor bard but I understand you. New things is better.

    • @SilentSooYun
      @SilentSooYun Рік тому +13

      I'm willing to bet pounds to pesos that the reason why they're doing it this way is specifically to make it easier for D&D Beyond to track.
      No gameplay reasons, just this

    • @barcster2003
      @barcster2003 Рік тому +4

      I think you are discrediting commune. It's basically ask 3 and reasonably up to 6 questions daily and potentially up to 9 because the way commune is written means it doesn't lie you just get nothing if it fails so the worst that happens is you waste time.
      For example
      Is ________ trustworthy? You can also phrase it as should i trust _______ ? Any answer other then yes means I should be cautious.
      Is _______ in danger today? (Maybe my character could cast a death ward spell on them monitor them, ect)
      Is ________ against your will? (I'm kind of asking the deity if I should deal with it)
      Will _____ guard take bribes?

    • @catalin2766
      @catalin2766 Рік тому +2

      Yeah, it's the more boring option from a game design perspective.
      Why create new and interesting stuff when you can just slap a spell that is often used by the class? That's their logic, it's easier.
      That's pretty much the reason why I hate the idea of buffing martials by giving them spells

  • @Etropalker
    @Etropalker Рік тому +9

    WotC to martials:"That single good feature you had was to strong, we had to nerf it, sorry. It will happen again."
    WotC to casters:"You get stress-free wish! And you get stress-free wish! Everyone gets stress-free wish!"

  • @fandomonium3789
    @fandomonium3789 Рік тому +6

    One thing I'd love to see for the Cleric (whether as a capstone feature or something you develop as you level up) is to become a priest, prophet, emissary, or even an Avatar for your deity, elevating your connection to your deity beyond mortal limits. Being blessed with a great deal of your god's divine power. The idea of a high-level Cleric becoming the mouthpiece or the enforcer of their god's will on the Material plane is a fun idea to have baked into the class at high level. Perhaps this could give the Cleric access to unique spells based on which god it is specifically. Like a Cleric of Sune would get charm spells, or a Cleric of Umberlee would get water spells. A way of giving the emissary of your god a power without having to build a whole subclass around something. Especially since it seems we'll never get a Love Domain or Ocean Domain. Plus, it adds some variety. Sune is listed as a Light Domain deity, but worshipping her should be different than worshipping Lathander or Heliod. And sea gods really don't seem like they should allow their clerics to fly and throw lightning when their domain is over water. It's not perfect, but it's certainly better than just having Commune as a feature.

    • @darkmoon2503
      @darkmoon2503 Рік тому +5

      Unique spells or features for Clerics of individual deities would make things so much cooler. I understand there are too many deities for every Cleric to get a unique thing, but the devs could at least do it for the Forgotten Realms pantheon.

    • @fandomonium3789
      @fandomonium3789 Рік тому +2

      @@darkmoon2503 Maybe repurpose the piety system from Theros? Imagine building a Cleric of Sune that casts with CHA instead of Wisdom or adds their WIS to CHA checks. Picking up charm spells, and getting expertise in Persuasion and Deception checks. Imagine getting proficiency with a musical instrument or an artistic tool kit of your choice because Sune is the patron goddess of artists. Is it a bit Bard Lite? Sure, but *gestures at Divine Soul Sorcerer and Hexblade Warlock* If I'm praying to the goddess of love and beauty, I would expect her clerics to be good faces for their parties. All while still being a life or light cleric that smites evil or heals the downtrodden as Sune would. They don't have to make a love domain, just give her clerics a way to get those charm spells. I shouldn't have to play a Divine Bard to play as a Cleric of Sune.

    • @ZarHakkar
      @ZarHakkar Рік тому +3

      Fluff and mechanics deeply integrated together without relying on the player to reflavor and the DM to homebrew? Not in my 5.5E!

  • @ShadowLink38
    @ShadowLink38 Рік тому +7

    The wording in Divine Intervention is a bit ambiguous but technically you begin Casting a Spell when you take the Action but it doesn't take effect until the Casting Time finishes. This is why you can Hold your Action tocast a spell around a corner, then walk out and release it, to avoid Counterspell since you've already "cast" the spell. It's also why you lose the slot if you are hit before you can release the Held spell.
    With all that said, Divine Intervention doesn't have the same clause as Wish ("You don't need to meet any requirements in that spell, including costly components. The spell simply takes effect.") meaning they may have intended to not circumvent the casting time.
    TL;DR - Divine Intervention needs clarification because it's technically unclear if it works like Wish (Action to cast, ignoring casting time) or if it works like Holding a Spell with a Readied Action. There are arguements for both sides and I for one will no be giving it the Wish treatment until lvl 20.
    Also also, the 5e version of 20th level Divine Intervention was basically already Wish so they haven't technically buffed it.
    Edit: This is also how Ritual Casting works with the "casting" of the spell happening immediately but you concentrate on it until it takes effect (casting time)+10 min later.

  • @EpicRandomness555
    @EpicRandomness555 Рік тому +6

    Polymorph is fitting for Trickery because messing with other people by turning them or yourself into and animal. Like the little story Thor told in Thor: Ragnarok about Loki turning into a snake before stabbing him. Actually Loki in general is a good reason for Polymorph to fit the Trickery domain.

    • @d_andrews
      @d_andrews Рік тому +3

      Yeah I've also been puzzled when seeing this opinion around. Maybe it's because people are thinking "oh yeah, Polymorph, that spell that turns your allies into Giant Apes" rather than considering the fact that it can turn enemies into animals which is perfect for the trickery theme

    • @Merilirem
      @Merilirem Рік тому +2

      People don't think SHAPESHIFTING should be trickery? Its almost as tricky as illusion!

    • @jonathanrich9281
      @jonathanrich9281 Рік тому +1

      In mythology, many trickster deities and entities are shapeshifters, and use that ability in their schemes.

  • @FrostRose
    @FrostRose Рік тому +4

    You should look into the very silly stealth rules in oneD&D where you become invisible for hiding

  • @lightyagami77777
    @lightyagami77777 Рік тому +3

    I completely overlooked hallow when I read it years ago. I just reread it and that is ridiculous. Even with 24 hour casting and 1,000 gp cost, that spell would be mind blowing in some niche situations.

  • @johncostello4565
    @johncostello4565 Рік тому +15

    Just a theory, but all of the changes (and non changes) make sense if you assume two goals:
    1) Discourage multi-classing optimization
    2) Limit big nova strikes

    • @yuvalgabay1023
      @yuvalgabay1023 Рік тому +1

      Tbh. This good

    • @arealhumanbean3058
      @arealhumanbean3058 Рік тому +4

      Then why not just ban multiclassing in general?

    • @yuvalgabay1023
      @yuvalgabay1023 Рік тому +1

      @@arealhumanbean3058 a .the idea of multi classing isnt bad by nature. But its being abused for purely min max and rarly for character development reasons. Its because in 2014 the designer didn't balance for it .
      B. You cant any more .the cat is out of the bag. They will have to make a new hole system for it to happend .

    • @mythicalthings1796
      @mythicalthings1796 Рік тому +6

      ​@@yuvalgabay1023Because multiclassing is dogshit otherwise. You're weaker than the rest of your party, there's little to no mechanical benefit UNLESS you're abusing mechanics in an unintended way, and the flavor sucks. Cause you don't *get* anything for it.
      There's no special features, special feats, etc.

    • @yuvalgabay1023
      @yuvalgabay1023 Рік тому +1

      @@mythicalthings1796 a..there js many good multi classing builds that ate not deep hoes (and yes this is the name i given to this kind of builds).they not amazing powerful but they are good .which is good.
      Multi classing should be for :
      Character growth.
      Versitliy
      Or cool unque idea.
      Not abusing the mechanics to there tipping point to become dpr /skill/defence god.. sadly in 5e its mainly the last .
      And now whit most classes getting more goodis in later levels .and the features are more spread out i hope to see an environment where more committed multi classing is around

  • @gyletre675
    @gyletre675 Рік тому +51

    I read the immunity to the stress of wish to be the part where your character gets weakened after using it.

    • @ATMOSK1234
      @ATMOSK1234 Рік тому +22

      "Finally, there is a 33 percent chance that you are unable to cast wish ever again if you suffer this stress."

    • @gyletre675
      @gyletre675 Рік тому +13

      @@ATMOSK1234 So you basically just remove the cause of the 33% roll. I now see why that's a problem

    • @ATMOSK1234
      @ATMOSK1234 Рік тому +4

      @@gyletre675 Because they can cast wish for anything and never have a chance to lose it.

    • @M9Seradon
      @M9Seradon Рік тому +1

      This is like the UA Sorcerer capstone where you can't lose the ability to use Wish but even more broken because the cast is completely free. Sorcs at least suffer the side effects of Wish and have to burn spell slots for it even if they can never lose the spell itself. Clerics really are just a bunch of divinely booned sugar babies

    • @garion046
      @garion046 Рік тому +1

      @kclubok True, but if they dont fix Simulacrum in the 2024 books, I will be VERY surprised. Leaving open the same issue but without another spell is just silly.

  • @Fynzmirs
    @Fynzmirs Рік тому +2

    The new playtest changed Divine Intervantion from an unpredictable but incredibly cinematic ability to a boring power ability.
    Clerics are full casters. They don't *need* extra power features. I understand that someone might dislike that their feature doesn't always work, but they are *full casters*, they have spells that always work instead.
    I actually think the old Divine Intervention was a good model for a full caster feature - cinematic, class-appropriate while not really improving the cleric's day-to-day performance. The new one is a boring extra "quickened" spell that, while mechanically powerful, could easily be removed or switched to a different class without really changing anything.

  • @sammie16508
    @sammie16508 Рік тому +3

    I actually like the fact that this has happened for Cleric. I agree that martials not getting these kinds of OP things is unfair, but the whole idea of a cleric is being a representative of a higher power. You are literally turning into an angel or demon with this subclass, and notice that almost ALL higher level celestials/demons and so on almost ALWAYS have tons of resistances and immunities. Instead of nerfing LEVEL TWENTY magic classes that getting very strong bonuses, I would much rather them just BUFF the martial classes as well. Maybe have characters that have gotten so strong at their craft that they are almost godlike as well. Like a hunter so good at defining targets to hunt that they get advantage on all attacks against the race of their choosing at the beginning of a fight or something. That sorta thing.

  • @joshuapicaro8726
    @joshuapicaro8726 Рік тому +3

    2:50 Jeremy Crawford stated all subclasses will now be given at level three for all classes.

  • @Wojtek36762
    @Wojtek36762 Рік тому

    I like the new Trickster domain setup, it gives it a clear identity different from how a bard using the divine list will feel (and even have better access to a couple iconic hard spells like hypnotic pattern).

  • @cueball6969
    @cueball6969 Рік тому +2

    Kobold!
    You showed the War Domain spell list when talking about Light Domain!

    • @VTSfilms
      @VTSfilms Рік тому +1

      Wanted to comment this too, but scrolled a bit first to see if someone else commented this

    • @cueball6969
      @cueball6969 Рік тому

      ​@@VTSfilmsLikewise lol

  • @digifreak90
    @digifreak90 Рік тому +1

    Personally, I like the level 14 improved Potent Spellcasting. I like how it's free temp HP to yourself or an ally every time you deal damage with a cantrip. It feels fitting for a more magic focused cleric providing more longevity to the party.

  • @blueveil3277
    @blueveil3277 Рік тому +5

    Being capable of casting the spell as an action in the new Divine Intervention is freaking amazing and I don't want for it to change at all.
    I actually used it in my last game to cast Hallow with it, causing Radiant Vulnerability.
    I was roleplaying a Justice Chief as a Cleric, my other three friends were Paladins (A Investigator and a Prison Warden/Executioner using Oath of Ancients and Vengeance) and a Cleric (Oath of Peace, roleplaying as a my apprentice and being mostly a party buffer/support), so everyone had a good amount of Radiant Damage.
    We just smashed a pit fiend at 13th level.
    I really don't care if it is OP. I just want to live in a world where I don't need to prepare a 24 hours trap to destroy a demon in Sacred Grounds.

  • @Iamjordangreen
    @Iamjordangreen Рік тому +4

    I really feel like the new divine intervention strips away a ton of fun, uniqueness, and favor from Cleric. Also two classes gaining wish as a capstone sounds really lazy and like that should be unique to one class.

    • @Barely_Edited
      @Barely_Edited Рік тому +2

      Idk if ‘do nothing 90% of the time’ was fun, exactly. Unique, sure.
      It took over 20 sessions, almost a full year, before my divine intervention ever succeeded. Felt pretty bad. I’ll be glad to have it be an actually useful feature nkw

  • @hyko8355
    @hyko8355 Рік тому +3

    6:35 Not immune, resistant.
    Great video!

    • @vittoriosavian9964
      @vittoriosavian9964 Рік тому +1

      Y? I can wish to become immune to damage, without any drawback

    • @hyko8355
      @hyko8355 Рік тому

      @@vittoriosavian9964 the immunity is an option listed in Wish as being temporary.

    • @sharmakefarah2064
      @sharmakefarah2064 6 місяців тому

      ​@@hyko8355Yes, but you can go beyond the examples, and unless the DM is competent or adversarial, this is a ticket to breaking the game entirely through wishes you get.
      Wish needs to be removed or reduced in power in order for this to work.

  • @prosamis
    @prosamis Рік тому +13

    I love your content! Keep it up!
    Hallow video soon?👀

  • @dokidokiduckie
    @dokidokiduckie Рік тому

    I actually really enjoy the new version of Blessed Strike and its Improved version. Even though it functionally doesn't matter, it gives players more choices with their features, which to me is always fun and engaging for people.

  • @93lozfan
    @93lozfan Рік тому

    In previous versions the whole destroy lower CR undead with turn undead was tied to failure of a will (wisdom) save. As you progress in cleric levels your turn undead DC improves and you could start turning things like mummy lords so they wanted to boost the effect against lower CR undead like skeletons, so on failure, they would just fizzle in holy radiance rather than just take the same effect.
    I think it'd be good to insert a crit fail mechanic like on failure the undead is feared, if failed by 5 or more it also uses it's reaction to move it's full movement away from you, if failed by 10 or more it is completely destroyed

  • @jaceg810
    @jaceg810 Рік тому +2

    I know hollow, it is sutch a fun spell, wanted to run a den of kobolds against a level 10 party,
    So they worshipped some false god of unity, and all got a single cleric level, yay guiding bolt, they don't hit all that often, but with pack tactics and guiding bolt advantage, and it dealing good damage, it was oki.
    Then the boss battle, hollow allows for vulnerability to radiant, so now the kobolds did a casual 4d6 doubled with every attack. It was great times, at some point the party mostly focused the boss, letting a firing squad of them assemble, it was a mess.

  • @jonathanmartin8716
    @jonathanmartin8716 Рік тому +1

    I want that on a shirt, "We have the power of God and Gators on our side!"

  • @redactedlemons6817
    @redactedlemons6817 Рік тому

    One thing I haven't heard covered is how Improved Blessed Strikes doesn't offer a choice...it just grants the new feature based on what you chose for Blessed Strikes at level 7. So, you can't get the temporary hp from potent spellcasting unless you take potent spellcasting at 7th. The same is true of Elemental Fury and Improved Elemental Fury for Druids. It's not a huge deal, but it's worth noting.

  • @Michael-fd1gx
    @Michael-fd1gx Рік тому +1

    Cleric subclass is supposed to be at level 1. There is a narrative reason for this, the cleric get get their power form their deity, indicated by divine domain. Narratively, no divine domain, no holy power.

  • @forkme3165
    @forkme3165 7 місяців тому

    Easy fix for martials... give them magic. As in, skills that give them immense ability in short bursts. Give ALL martial classes the ability to use superiority die (call them something else) as a part of their basic attacks in addition to a bonus action. Give them a list of spells for each class that are just flavored for physical ability. Example: the anime/light novel Overlord has physical skills in it that allow martial fighters to temporarily transcend their physical limits, like a long range slash with a sword using aura or something.

  • @butterflysrage
    @butterflysrage Рік тому +8

    11:01 oh man, you can now Ghostlance with a cleric!
    Warlock 2 / trickery cleric 18!

    • @PackTactics
      @PackTactics  Рік тому +7

      Tricklance!

    • @brannenpfister2579
      @brannenpfister2579 Рік тому +4

      Except Eldritch blast scales with warlock level now. Nowhere near as good anymore.

  • @BrunoCarlin
    @BrunoCarlin Рік тому

    I like the subclass at lv 3,6,10,14

  • @SymbioteMullet
    @SymbioteMullet Рік тому +14

    Getting a bit 3.5e in the martial/caster power divide again...
    This is terribly disappointing.

    • @PackTactics
      @PackTactics  Рік тому +7

      Oh absolutely. I feel like we went back in time to when I was playing pathfinder 1.

  • @nico-3060
    @nico-3060 Рік тому +2

    Why bother with "Greater divine intervention" when they could just bring back the 3.5e spell Miracle...

  • @FrumpybutSuperSmart
    @FrumpybutSuperSmart Рік тому +3

    For the Trickery Cleric, I am strongly tied to their ability to cast Modify Memory for Trickery reasons and I also think that Polymorph does fit the Trickery idea because of how pixies like to play tricks like turning people into animals. Other than that, I really like it.

    • @barcster2003
      @barcster2003 Рік тому

      I think the old spells fit but I think the changed ones also fit.

  • @Cornfiglep
    @Cornfiglep Рік тому +1

    10:00 I'm pretty sure that if a spell isn't added into the playetest then it's meant to be assumed that it hasn't changed from 5e.

  • @bobalmond8257
    @bobalmond8257 Рік тому

    5:56 raise dead is 5th. Now you can raise party members with no expense!!!

  • @justanormalspessman6576
    @justanormalspessman6576 Рік тому +1

    I earnestly believe that instead of having Wish have a chance to be uncastable for forever upon casting it even just once, instead they should make it so that there are tiers of wish, like I dunno, *lesser wish* and *greater wish* or something to that effect. Make Wish take material components or something that can't be synthesized by magic or Wish itself when doing something other than the listed effects, and you have a reliable way for the GM to limit the castings of wish that can potentially be above the power curve. Mind you, this is unlike current Wish where depending on if the dice tell you to eff off you just lose Wish forever, even the listed effects like 8th level spells. If nothing else, changing the stress effect so you can still cast listed effects afterwards but lose unlisted casting would be a better change to the spell if you ask me. It just boils down to the current system punishing you for being "too creative" with it. I see no reason to ever use wish for anything other than casting Simulacrum for free under current 5e rules, but that might just be me.

  • @darksword225
    @darksword225 Рік тому

    With the level 20 wish feature. I've never been in a level 20 game and those I've seen and heard about ends up ending at level 20 with a boss fight typically the tarasque

  • @ratboydnd
    @ratboydnd Рік тому +1

    Polymorph on trickery domain cleric makes a lot of sense to me like worshippng loki or an animal trickster god should let you change shape

  • @nicoledias4866
    @nicoledias4866 Рік тому +21

    Please, make your own version of all classes.

    • @PackTactics
      @PackTactics  Рік тому +20

      That's a big project. I would have to put the channel to the side for several months.

    • @gergom2699
      @gergom2699 Рік тому

      ​@@PackTactics It would worth😊

    • @mohammadmurie
      @mohammadmurie Рік тому +1

      ​@PackTactics could you do tips and where to start on how to balance them?

    • @PackTactics
      @PackTactics  Рік тому +2

      @@mohammadmurie As a video? No. This isn't a homebrew channel. Anyways I would start with spells before even touching anything because usually spells are better than features.

    • @mohammadmurie
      @mohammadmurie Рік тому

      @@PackTactics what are you talking about every spell is just another op class feature for spellcasters, each and every single one of them /s
      But yeah fair about no to the video

  • @SarJulem
    @SarJulem Рік тому +2

    *5e Trickster Cleric requires concentration to maintain invoke duplicity. New one does not...

  • @brianmclaughlan2546
    @brianmclaughlan2546 Рік тому +4

    Regarding weapon mastery on casters: In a vacuum, I'm fine with it whenever it fits, like the War Cleric. *However*, think of the poor fighter at this point!
    Designers (*speaking to casters*): You get a weapon mastery! And you get a weapon mastery!
    Fighter: What do I get?
    Designers: Um, an extra weapon mastery?
    Man, they are really moving into the fighter's design space. If we keep basic weapon masteries on non-warriors, the fighter's improved masteries need to be seriously buffed since that's all they really get.

  • @EpicRandomness555
    @EpicRandomness555 Рік тому +1

    They said that they’d switch back the progression but keep the subclasses at 3rd

  • @Ottenskjold
    @Ottenskjold Рік тому

    I think polymorph totally fits for trickery cleric. If I think about god's if trickery (Loki, Jackal, SunWukong) they are all about. Turning things into other things.

  • @ktube2143
    @ktube2143 Рік тому +1

    Someone at WOTC was thinking "These martials are a bit too strong, let's buff the casters a bit"

  • @itsmefirefox
    @itsmefirefox Рік тому

    Kobald I like the war priests ablitys because that is almost one free shield of faith a fight that works on two people as a bonus action if the spell has not changed so that is a plus four AC buff to you party now total also as written I believe twin spell would work. doing all of this is a 1 short rest free +4 AC or +6 AC with twin spell divided amidst your party members

  • @jjsquidbeard4831
    @jjsquidbeard4831 Рік тому +2

    Half casters should get one weapon mastery, full casters should get none, and the other classes should get multiple, with specific limitations and ways to use them in combination.
    Subclasses should offer them sometimes, but only when it makes sense, like the War Cleric, Hexblade warlock, etc.

    • @barcster2003
      @barcster2003 Рік тому +1

      I think for war cleric it makes sense.

  • @chris-the-human
    @chris-the-human Рік тому

    the channel divinity option for the life domain cleric is a obviously worse option to just using your Channel divinity to heal through the base class feature

  • @KuaEtus
    @KuaEtus Рік тому

    Free glyph of warding ones per day is my favorite part ❤🐊

  • @nonamegiven202
    @nonamegiven202 Рік тому

    yeah really hoping Wish itself is gets looked at, like as long as Simulacrum is a thing then removing the immunity of stress isn't really going to help much, like even a Arcana cleric right now could just cheese the spell.

  • @Nemo12417
    @Nemo12417 Рік тому

    On the plus side, the amount of short rest recovery in this document indicates that WotC IS listening to us. So there's that. I actually like most of this with the exception of giving Clerics Wish. Also, I think the 10th level feature should be a bit more limited. Raise Dead and Hallow are SUPPOSED to be restricted based on resources.

  • @maxwellshields6277
    @maxwellshields6277 Рік тому

    The cleric subclass change was needed. Cleric was a ridiculous 1 level dip for other classes, often solely so the wizard or bard could snag heavy armor. Very bad for 5e!

  • @majorbones251
    @majorbones251 Рік тому +1

    Invoke Duplicity basically makes you Loki now?

  • @starcrafter13terran
    @starcrafter13terran Рік тому

    Hi Kobold! HI GATOR!!!

  • @bakersbread104
    @bakersbread104 Рік тому

    I like the old divine intervention. It seems cooler and very unique to the cleric class. I think abilities should stand apart from spells as unique or they get a lil boring

  • @benjammin6475
    @benjammin6475 Рік тому

    I wish they made the number of channel divinity = your proficiency mod

  • @tur13l
    @tur13l Рік тому

    13:37 Extra attack!!!!

  • @kohinonion1794
    @kohinonion1794 Рік тому

    Trickery Cleric video... That would be nice.

    • @pandanielxd
      @pandanielxd Рік тому

      thats already on the channel (Jester is a Role Model for clerics in Dnd 5e! - Critical Role character analysis)

    • @kohinonion1794
      @kohinonion1794 Рік тому

      @@pandanielxd oh, thanks.

  • @giorgosmiras8583
    @giorgosmiras8583 Рік тому +5

    About the 20th lvl feature. Clerics at lvl 20 used to be able to 100% be able to call their deity to intervene without d100 and how it intervenes its up to the dm. So since this is the same with wish which if used for anything else other than casting a spell or other things which mention wish is up to the dm as well its pretty much as Divine intervention became a guaranteed good effect at lvl 10 rather than a random game changer while at lvl 20 became the same as now.

    • @dungeoneerofphilosophyphd172
      @dungeoneerofphilosophyphd172 Рік тому +1

      While that's true, the design philosophy between old school D&D has changed way too much to give out such an OP ability. Clerics have always been busted, but at least strong abilities and crazy spells were harder to accumulate back then. That's just way too strong in this particular edition.

    • @giorgosmiras8583
      @giorgosmiras8583 Рік тому

      @@dungeoneerofphilosophyphd172 If you mean the new 10lvl feature this one i believe its more op than the old 10% chance intervention up to the dm, as stated in the video there are busted spells you can cast. For the 20th lvl i mean i feel that really no one ever plays at that level 😅 so i guess its fine i would prefer the other classes get their capstones buffed than change this fun one, but it seems like that's not gonna happen.
      Personally when i was dming the last session on my campaign lvl 16 that 16% divine intervention which succeeded made for one of the most memorable and tense moments of the 5 year old campaign

  • @syrupchugger421
    @syrupchugger421 Рік тому

    Not gonna lie, I'm glad clerics stay strong. I really want a war cleric to work as a holy fighter, I hope these changes are enough

  • @0whatman
    @0whatman Рік тому

    they should divide thaumaturgy and scholar again, and make thaumaturgy give an additional use of channel divinity on short rest, and make a charisma mirror to scholar
    they should also make the blessed strike options part of these options and let you pick em at lvl3 and at lvl7

  • @Commodore468
    @Commodore468 Рік тому

    Splitting divine strike makes each cleric more different from one another. I agree that half and full casters should not get weapon master, but I do like it for ear cleric

  • @markmcdonald9863
    @markmcdonald9863 Рік тому +6

    I have to assume they’ll do the same thing to Polymorph that they did to druids. The player keeps their hp

  • @mikecarson7769
    @mikecarson7769 Рік тому +2

    With all of these power boosts . . . what happened with the Monk? And will the designers somehow find a way to weaken the Ranger again?

  • @jasminebryant4238
    @jasminebryant4238 Рік тому +1

    In theory, we don't know if wish will function the same as 5e

  • @rafaellvanuci8274
    @rafaellvanuci8274 Рік тому

    in regard to the base class capstone, thats 20th lvl, 1% of tables will, maybe, have the opportunity to see this, its 3 levels after wiz/sorcs are already being able to use it normaly and 2 levels after sorc can jigglywiggly it, not really a problem for a 20th lvl god's herald and channeler of its divine authority/power into the world to use this once or twice a week, wich is less frequently than a wizard or sorcerer could use it on their own, they pay the price, gods don't. divine intervention is essentialy your god using its power, they put wish there cos its already written and already open ended so it saves them time and energy to recycle spells as features wich is why they're doing it so much in these UAs. heck, even divine intervention is wotc way of recycling the miracle spell from 3.x wich was clerics version of wish(wich was also safer to the cleric than wish was to anyone) where they asked their god for a deed that could also be negated(as a wish fail) or be done differently as the deity seemed fit(as wish's twisted fullfilment, but less dick-ish because its your patron deity, if u're good u're good) and iirc wish didn't had the clause where you lose it forever back then. people problem with wish, funnily enough, have less to do with wish than with the other spells they try to use with wish as a medium to fuck shit up + it beeing safer to exploit like that than use anything outside the box or more creative cos of the 33% of doom, even the more neutral options in the spell text, while good on their own, are too little for the risk/slot to be worth it.

  • @__Rodrigo__
    @__Rodrigo__ Рік тому

    berry cleric isnt gone ... well if everyone ready an action for as soon as the berries appear on your hand they all eat them it would still be your turn right ? maybe not and to do something like this would be better for the DM to just allow it or not

  • @michaelgerow3161
    @michaelgerow3161 Рік тому

    I hope they keep order domain similar or improve it, I like order on my fighter cleric multiclass.

  • @Marb315
    @Marb315 Рік тому

    I wonder if it'd be balanced to replace the war cleric's bonus action attack with something else minor and give them extra attack at level 6 instead? it's bring them more in line with other full-caster martial subclasses

    • @barcster2003
      @barcster2003 Рік тому

      I'm guessing they were afraid to give the armored full caster extra attack.

  • @pederw4900
    @pederw4900 Рік тому +3

    I loved the Jester reference ❤️

  • @nm2358
    @nm2358 Рік тому +5

    UA: Being able to use Divine Smite as a free action, and still cast a spell or use a BA smite, too OP.
    Also UA: Clerics can cast any 5th level divine spell or later Wish without stress, lol.
    *Vomits*

  • @nygyleeleccion4509
    @nygyleeleccion4509 Рік тому

    Im new to dnd so 0:31 whats the good part of thaumaturgy?

  • @tesladrew2608
    @tesladrew2608 Рік тому

    6:45 you can already do that using simulacrum wishing
    And you dont have the 2d4 downtime, and can do it at level 17

  • @Athorment
    @Athorment Рік тому

    Do you have a video on how to fix monks?

  • @GravityAP
    @GravityAP Рік тому +4

    The level 10 5.5 cleric when the DM throws a pit fiend at them to scare the party

  • @TheAusar
    @TheAusar Рік тому +2

    Honestly, Divine intervention may be stronger, but I actually like it less right now. The god actually having a really low chance to intervene is so much cooler. Also yeah, not sure while we need to give casters more shit that is consistent and broken.

  • @MrTwyres
    @MrTwyres Рік тому

    Good.

  • @majorbones251
    @majorbones251 Рік тому +1

    If you can cast Hallow as an action, what happens to creatures that can’t enter the space if they’re already in the space?
    In my head canon, they get yeeted out!

  • @rodneygriffin7666
    @rodneygriffin7666 9 місяців тому

    I like Clerics.
    Wizards and Sorcerers need to be humbled before the devine source of magic.

  • @nimric3348
    @nimric3348 Рік тому +1

    I want them to bring scholar back that was my favorite part.
    Combinding them ruined it

  • @kharnthebetrayer760
    @kharnthebetrayer760 Рік тому

    Maybe warcleric should get another attack feature similiar to the bladesong wizard

    • @barcster2003
      @barcster2003 Рік тому

      I'm guessing they make sure it wasn't broken.

    • @kharnthebetrayer760
      @kharnthebetrayer760 Рік тому +1

      @@barcster2003 its not like casters arent overpowered already and warcleric should be the most paladin like of all clerics. Still the other subclases for cleric are better unfortunatly.

  • @ConcerninglyWiseAlligator
    @ConcerninglyWiseAlligator Рік тому +2

    I understand why they didn't want clerics to have a "maybe pass your turn" feature. But this new Divine Intervention is way too good and less cool because the DM can't go nuts.
    They should keep the old version and add an "if you fail you get to..." at the end.

  • @HateSonneillon
    @HateSonneillon Рік тому

    I agree, no casters or half casters should get weapon mastery unless a subclass specifically goes for melee. Like maybe Bladesinger. Ok Ranger should also get weapon mastery.

  • @alkemyst337
    @alkemyst337 Рік тому +1

    I'm really struggling to think of a good solution for closing the martial caster divide that doesn't just come down to kneecapping the casters. Nerfs aren't fun or interesting, but it really seems like the only way martials will be able to keep pace with these newer casters is getting anime level ridiculous physical abilities.

  • @bobalmond8257
    @bobalmond8257 Рік тому

    They probably moved subclasses to third to make one level multiclassing less powerful and to be more like most other classes.

  • @atinygoose6199
    @atinygoose6199 Рік тому

    I'm still in the camp of subclass at 3 being good. One level cleric dips just give too much otherwise.

  • @patrickmcathey7081
    @patrickmcathey7081 Рік тому +1

    Starting to think they just really hate wish stress.

  • @Salad_Pickle
    @Salad_Pickle Рік тому

    The *fuck*?? I mean, it makes a semblance of sense? A God tier cleric becomes a wish granting demigod by default?
    Those goddamn revival clerics better stop charging if they can just... ASK THEIR BISHOP FOR MORE GOLD

  • @567secret
    @567secret Рік тому

    Geas as an action?

  • @mr.m4302
    @mr.m4302 Рік тому

    2:50-I'M NOT...

  • @BestgirlJordanfish
    @BestgirlJordanfish Рік тому +1

    I like the standardized progression, just would like a lite form of expression at first class level.
    I don’t get why those features still need to emphasize undead. I dunno I’d rather scrap those for features that are reliable or consistent so the GM doesn’t have to put undead in more encounters.
    I’m not a fan of the features that say “cast more spells”. Like I dunno this seems like really bland design that pivots the weight of play nearly entirely on your spells and domain.

  • @crschoen123
    @crschoen123 Рік тому +1

    Them pushing subclass progression back just reinforces the idea that they're trying to kill multi-classing. It's almost like they don't like power gaming content (creators).

  • @andrewgubin6307
    @andrewgubin6307 Рік тому

    Later subclass progression is good, it makes multi classing weaker