It is very funny, though. I never saw code written as badly as I have in Logo as if he's completely correct about the ridiculousness of alternative command names in it. Also, Logo tools often have a single-line input feature which forces people to write things more compact and single-lined than readable. Lots of examples you'll find are compressed to 1 short line as if what jsminify does to JavaScript is a coding convention with Logo. It is something new Logo programming tools should find ways to discourage because it teaches people that it is unimportant to write clear, understandable code. Some alternative command names are wildly confusing because some Logo interpreters support words from multiple languages like "vooruit" from Dutch instead of "forward". Nothing confuses people quite like mixing multiple natural languages in it.
@@jh29a everyone scrolls up and down while reading code in any programming language. It is normal to have more than 50 lines in a program and have it go vertically out of view. Up/down generally corresponds with steps before and after the one you're looking at so vertical scrolling feels completely natural. Scrolling left to right is when you're likely doing something wrong. Python's PEP-8 style guide recommends a maximum line length of 80 characters for similar reasons. MSWLogo, FMSLogo, UCBLogo, and many other Logo programming tools support a single-line code input feature usually called "Commander" but any significantly long code would be better stored in procedures that can have as many lines as keeps your code clear.
Dude Logo was the language I learned programming with in school. Logo is my homie! We did so much stuff with this I remember me coding entire games with this and felt like a hacker until I realized there are ways to do this, which do not hurt.
@@jh29a there is localmake in some Logo interpreters like FMSLogo for use in procedures. localmake is a bit like mixing local and make in FMSLogo but could also be like 'make' for local variables only. I don't know what is so bad about using 'make' but there are some alternatives. If he wanted to avoid using variables so hard that he felt bad about using them, maybe he was trying to avoid all side effects. Completely avoiding side effects would be weird when turtle graphics is so stateful with pen, turtle position, turtle heading, pen color, pen up/down..., though.
When I learned Java in uni a decade ago they gave us a package they built called Turtle Graphics that did exactly this as an introduction to programming
Oh my god, I'm did this in early middle school as a kid (I'm almost 25 now, for reference). We had a "computer class", but it was quickly gutted for some kind of digital testing/learning program. I loved that turtle, it was one of my first introductions to programming.
I remember doing this in school. I didn't even realize it was programming at the time, I just thought it was a fun little turtle drawing game or something.
"Find the difference between this picture and this picture" Logo programing language Scratch pen comands, move blocks and variable blocks "They are the same picture."
6:07 to 7:00 is hilarious. It is very true. People love to make their code shorter at the expense of being far less readable. That's also probably why so many command lists end up on the same line as a repeat.
@@jh29a Logomocja-Imagine is a version with polish support. Every school uses them, most don't buy it, but use the demo version, but then teachers have no way to give homework on that, so there is still quite a lot that do give money for a simple LOGO program.
Logo actually is a serious programming language it doesn't have much business use. But one of the most important things that wasn't shown here is the value of abstraction. In particular it would have been a great example to turn that code into a function and then call the function with various parameters to actually show some more power than what you have. It really is unfortunate that people don't use it more as a programming language The art side is fun, but it's actually one of the better languages of the time when it was released. Syntactically it's much stronger than BASIC. Read the manual for UCB Logo if you want something that's more than a toy.
There is also turtlespaces which makes 3D graphics using the Logo programming language. turtlespaces just isn't as useful for adults who are more focused on making 3D models and exporting them than learning by playing around.
in polish schools they are still learning this programming language in second grade, and in 7th still learning scratch. and im that weird kid who can program in c# xd
3:40 A Vinesauce reference? In YOUR video? What timeline is this? 5:28 *phffff* Also, I'd recommend checking out this little Logo interpreter right here: www.cr31.co.uk/logojs/logo.html
I went to primary school from 2007 to 2013 and in the fist years we had a computation subject and we were learning logo in it! Yep we have a version of logo I can't tell if it was for windows 95, 98 or XP, and the most sophisticated thing we managed to make in 3 years was a square that is painted inside with the color pen a different color. Then next year we just make some typo in Word 98. Yep the teacher were very old and the computers even more, but believe me or not that school was years beyond it's time for teaching computing and programming to childs, in primary school. Maybe in USA or other first world country have advanced technology and learn phyton in kinder, but for Latin America that school was very advanced to its time
For example, is one of the few public primary schools that teaches english. And the school is 100 years old and I can tell, teachers and management team were at least as old as school haha
You're 90% correct. The last 10% would be in saying that the python turtle module was based on turtle graphics instead of Logo. Logo is a programming language and Python's turtle is just modules and not a distinct programming language. Turtle graphics is not a programming language. It is more like a set of commands or functions that are commonly supported by Logo to access and control simulated turtles and the turtles draw graphics.
They somehow translated logo to polish and called it logomocja and its soooo poor in commands... You can only draw, change parametrs of pen and make loops that doesn't even work...
Might want a different programming language for that. SQL is a specialized programming language that is extremely popular. Not being general-purpose doesn't imply being useless. In a lot of situations, specialized programming languages are very useful.
@@insaneabrokenheroofficial is that a problem? Unless you're talking face to face or in something else realtime, a response time of years seems fine to me. More people are likely to read the comments after they're written too. I doubt they'd read the comment and reply much differently if there was a 2 year gap between the two.
@@Truttle1 when I watched your furst vid with an intro I was kinda confused like "wait, this isnt an esolang channel?" but watched the whole thjng anyways
Logo as in Greek for word or thought. The Logo language supports some basic natural language processing to manipulate word lists. Documentation for Logo refers to lots of things a "word" when you normally wouldn't choose "word". For example, numbers, strings, procedures... have been called "word's" in Logo programming documentation. It is interesting and confusing when Logo also has turtle graphics that could draw company logos. Graphics used for branding is called "logos" too because it has common etymological roots. A company's logo is sort of the single "word" or "thought" or symbol rather, that represents that company.
@@IARRCSim ... Logos, an Objective-C preprocessor by theos, the build system (comment made by a younger, more naive me, who wrongfully thought it was a programming language)
No. Python is a different programming language from Logo. The similarity you're thinking of is that both Python and Logo support turtle graphics. In Python you can use a turtle package to draw similar graphics in a similar way. The Logo programming language is different from Python in that it uses "to" instead of "def", "repeat" instead of "for", and Logo does turtle graphics without needing to import a special package. Logo was the first programming language to use turtle graphics.
@@IARRCSim yeah I knew that it's a different programming language. But yeah I found a similarity to the turtle programming language. I didn't even know that turtle graphics was a kind of "philosophy"? Like OOP is a way of doing stuff in more programming languages hahs
@@jh29a not just nowadays. I found print command support in every Logo interpreter I looked at from the 1980's. Scratch is very different because it uses visual programming which is a lot slower to work with when you get beyond the first couple hours of learning how to program.
Yes, Python has a turtle module. Python is a different programming language than Logo, though. You might care more about turtle graphics than Logo. It is important to see the distinction between Logo and turtle graphics, though. It is important to note that turtle graphics is more like an a graphics library, or a way to simulate turtles that can draw instead of confusing turtle graphics with the Logo programming language.
There is an inbuilt turtle module in Python, exactly like this
Cool. I did not know that. I also saw a turtle graphics program that came installed with KDE.
There are turtle libraries for a lot of languages, even befunge ^^
Yea turtle is also a nice way to teach programming
Yea, that was how I first came in contact with programming.
I was even in a tournament / competition for this, lol
ROS also has this as their main demo for sending messages/commands. I didn’t know it was based on Logo until now!
The legend is uploading frequently
I'm glad EsoLabyrinth is over. I can finally make videos a reasonable length again.
@@tikete seriously
God damn the code made by obfuscate actually made me revolt like physical moved my head back
i'm glad i did my job well, puny mortal!
@@0bfuscate holy hell its obfuscate
It is very funny, though. I never saw code written as badly as I have in Logo as if he's completely correct about the ridiculousness of alternative command names in it. Also, Logo tools often have a single-line input feature which forces people to write things more compact and single-lined than readable. Lots of examples you'll find are compressed to 1 short line as if what jsminify does to JavaScript is a coding convention with Logo. It is something new Logo programming tools should find ways to discourage because it teaches people that it is unimportant to write clear, understandable code.
Some alternative command names are wildly confusing because some Logo interpreters support words from multiple languages like "vooruit" from Dutch instead of "forward". Nothing confuses people quite like mixing multiple natural languages in it.
@@jh29a everyone scrolls up and down while reading code in any programming language. It is normal to have more than 50 lines in a program and have it go vertically out of view. Up/down generally corresponds with steps before and after the one you're looking at so vertical scrolling feels completely natural. Scrolling left to right is when you're likely doing something wrong. Python's PEP-8 style guide recommends a maximum line length of 80 characters for similar reasons.
MSWLogo, FMSLogo, UCBLogo, and many other Logo programming tools support a single-line code input feature usually called "Commander" but any significantly long code would be better stored in procedures that can have as many lines as keeps your code clear.
6:35-6:36 Set Personal Computer? You don't "set" them Obfuscate, you use them!
fun fact: most (non tech) schools in europe use logo (and its 'translated' forms) as a tool of education to this day
Just got nostalgia from when we learned this in school lol.
"scratch from the 20th century" yeah that seems accurate
This brings back so much memories omg, but I remember the turtle being a triangle.
Dude Logo was the language I learned programming with in school. Logo is my homie! We did so much stuff with this I remember me coding entire games with this and felt like a hacker until I realized there are ways to do this, which do not hurt.
You are criminally underrated.
I really like this way of teaching various programming languages, using fun animations to explain everything easily.
unluckly even after a year they are still criminally underrated. it is amazing work done by him tho.
This is the most procedural Logo code I've ever seen. Every time I use 'make' in a Logo program I feel like I've failed.
@@jh29a there is localmake in some Logo interpreters like FMSLogo for use in procedures. localmake is a bit like mixing local and make in FMSLogo but could also be like 'make' for local variables only.
I don't know what is so bad about using 'make' but there are some alternatives. If he wanted to avoid using variables so hard that he felt bad about using them, maybe he was trying to avoid all side effects. Completely avoiding side effects would be weird when turtle graphics is so stateful with pen, turtle position, turtle heading, pen color, pen up/down..., though.
Also not using repcount in the loop makes me cringe.
Sorry for the necroposting. (:
I remember my school including logo as part of the “computer education” course for 2nd graders
6:20 me literally shortcutting every single value and coming back a week later just looking at the code confused at what each value is for
This is surprising very high quality good job. Keep it up!
6:13 is the best part.
Note to self.
The downward spiral reference really got me
When I learned Java in uni a decade ago they gave us a package they built called Turtle Graphics that did exactly this as an introduction to programming
Oh my god, I'm did this in early middle school as a kid (I'm almost 25 now, for reference). We had a "computer class", but it was quickly gutted for some kind of digital testing/learning program. I loved that turtle, it was one of my first introductions to programming.
I happened upon this channel, and am very surprised this channel isn't viral. Promptly subbed, thank you UA-cam algorithm
Your videos are always so fun and charming to watch. Great job! Keep up the amazing work!
this gives me flashbacks to my highschool programming course back in 2016
we did scratch FMSlogo java and python
I remember doing this in school. I didn't even realize it was programming at the time, I just thought it was a fun little turtle drawing game or something.
Python also has a Logo library.
Where did the spin thing here 3:40 originated
This has been the most fun language so far. I really love the idea of making images from code. That's why GSGL Shaders are so interesting
Do you mean GLSL, OpenGL's shader language?
@@IARRCSim yes
@@Veptis You might like /watch?v=cLJGIJ2meYE because every frame of the video was made with GLSL.
I had to learn NetLogo a dialect of Logo for a class. I quite enjoy this one.
Scratch (Visual programming language) has kinda some features that include Logo's code, kinda seems like Scratch was inspired by Logo..
"Find the difference between this picture and this picture"
Logo programing language
Scratch pen comands, move blocks and variable blocks
"They are the same picture."
I just found out about esolangs last night, as well as your channel. This stuff might just get me into coding for real!
Yay!
This video's not about an esolang tho
You can use logo with never touching the turtle graphics. It has list-processing features a la Lisp.
6:07 to 7:00 is hilarious. It is very true. People love to make their code shorter at the expense of being far less readable. That's also probably why so many command lists end up on the same line as a repeat.
Yoo this is amazing, this was the first language i learned, and i remember it being so fun after you enable 3D mode xD
i like how in poland schools still pay for full version of this program... Also check out Kturtle, free and opensource alternative.
@@jh29a Logomocja-Imagine is a version with polish support. Every school uses them, most don't buy it, but use the demo version, but then teachers have no way to give homework on that, so there is still quite a lot that do give money for a simple LOGO program.
Afaik the first record in wayback machine does not mean the date of creation, just when it was recorded first. Just a tip.
I remember learning logo in third grade. Good times.
I wonder if you can get it to draw you a logo.
im so happy you too like the downward spiral
Love the random Mario Kart music!
Is this what the turtles in computercraft were based on? The commands seem similar enough
@@jh29a well, yeah. I'm aware that the base language is Lua, but I mean the "turtle.*" is similar enough to make me think of CC in general
this is a legend
This was my first programming language ever i don't know how to feel, if happy or sad to see it here
Wait This Is Not Logo.
Logo Is About A Icon Like, Hospital Company, Television Company, Technology Company And Every Company!
Look At Your Logo.
Logo actually is a serious programming language it doesn't have much business use. But one of the most important things that wasn't shown here is the value of abstraction. In particular it would have been a great example to turn that code into a function and then call the function with various parameters to actually show some more power than what you have. It really is unfortunate that people don't use it more as a programming language The art side is fun, but it's actually one of the better languages of the time when it was released. Syntactically it's much stronger than BASIC. Read the manual for UCB Logo if you want something that's more than a toy.
Ah, my first programming language
can you make a video about scratch?
Nice backwards BLJ Stairs music!
4:49 thumbnail feature
IMO OpenSCAD is more or less the new LOGO but in 3D. And you can print useful things using it.
There is also turtlespaces which makes 3D graphics using the Logo programming language. turtlespaces just isn't as useful for adults who are more focused on making 3D models and exporting them than learning by playing around.
in polish schools they are still learning this programming language in second grade, and in 7th still learning scratch.
and im that weird kid who can program in c# xd
The spinny Truttle 7:01
The nostalgia from Twitch plays pokemon. Great job!
Im suprised you didn't mention how wierd strings and varibles work
3:38 unexpected speen, nice
3:40 A Vinesauce reference? In YOUR video? What timeline is this?
5:28 *phffff*
Also, I'd recommend checking out this little Logo interpreter right here: www.cr31.co.uk/logojs/logo.html
This video is 1/3 references
Also, I used the logo interpreter that I did because it animated the turtle
the setxy (set coordinates X and Y) command in this is unfortunately named
But I bet kids wouldn't pick up on that until at least 10 or 12
is the background music in this video from Wonder Boy the Dragons Trap video game?
yes
2:43 bro running for president and uses imovie bruh
TIL a spiral has 10000 sides 🤔
I went to primary school from 2007 to 2013 and in the fist years we had a computation subject and we were learning logo in it! Yep we have a version of logo I can't tell if it was for windows 95, 98 or XP, and the most sophisticated thing we managed to make in 3 years was a square that is painted inside with the color pen a different color.
Then next year we just make some typo in Word 98.
Yep the teacher were very old and the computers even more, but believe me or not that school was years beyond it's time for teaching computing and programming to childs, in primary school.
Maybe in USA or other first world country have advanced technology and learn phyton in kinder, but for Latin America that school was very advanced to its time
For example, is one of the few public primary schools that teaches english.
And the school is 100 years old and I can tell, teachers and management team were at least as old as school haha
i remember being told how to program with this :/
I don't get it why you don't have hundreds of thousands of followers yet :( your vids are insane keep it up 😊
There's a python module called turtle based on Logo.
You're 90% correct. The last 10% would be in saying that the python turtle module was based on turtle graphics instead of Logo. Logo is a programming language and Python's turtle is just modules and not a distinct programming language. Turtle graphics is not a programming language. It is more like a set of commands or functions that are commonly supported by Logo to access and control simulated turtles and the turtles draw graphics.
i just fiddled around with logo for a bit
it was fun
They somehow translated logo to polish and called it logomocja and its soooo poor in commands... You can only draw, change parametrs of pen and make loops that doesn't even work...
Ye, you have to pay or get a school packet for full version...
3:40 this is where my laugh exist
now develop an api for a web server that creates, updates and deletes products from a data base and manage transactions
Might want a different programming language for that. SQL is a specialized programming language that is extremely popular. Not being general-purpose doesn't imply being useless. In a lot of situations, specialized programming languages are very useful.
@@IARRCSim Blud responded a 2 year comment no cap bro 🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️💀💀💀💀
@@insaneabrokenheroofficial is that a problem? Unless you're talking face to face or in something else realtime, a response time of years seems fine to me. More people are likely to read the comments after they're written too. I doubt they'd read the comment and reply much differently if there was a 2 year gap between the two.
6:57 It's A Five!
What do people thing when they walk in on your voice acting?
idk... that has actually never happened before...
@@Truttle1 when I watched your furst vid with an intro I was kinda confused like "wait, this isnt an esolang channel?" but watched the whole thjng anyways
this epic bg music tho...
1:55 Oh shit, it's the Homestuck logo!
why is Logo nothing like Logos yet their names are so similar?
Logo as in Greek for word or thought. The Logo language supports some basic natural language processing to manipulate word lists. Documentation for Logo refers to lots of things a "word" when you normally wouldn't choose "word". For example, numbers, strings, procedures... have been called "word's" in Logo programming documentation. It is interesting and confusing when Logo also has turtle graphics that could draw company logos. Graphics used for branding is called "logos" too because it has common etymological roots. A company's logo is sort of the single "word" or "thought" or symbol rather, that represents that company.
@@IARRCSim ... Logos, an Objective-C preprocessor by theos, the build system (comment made by a younger, more naive me, who wrongfully thought it was a programming language)
i love this video a lot actually!
thx!
make a video on scratch
"'Thanks`! Obfuscate"
Truttle1 is still fire
I like the turtle character
I learnt Logo language from High School.
dunno why they added that.at least It's fun.
[EDIT] Ok It's designed as "fun to learn".
Logo?
Logo?
Logo?
Scratch pen be like
Comeom pleeeease take a look at fetlang
Hi fäther
ääääää
Hi L
@@mochou_p ryuzaki
@@Truttle1 lawliet
Is this python? (Python turtle Module)
No. Python is a different programming language from Logo. The similarity you're thinking of is that both Python and Logo support turtle graphics. In Python you can use a turtle package to draw similar graphics in a similar way. The Logo programming language is different from Python in that it uses "to" instead of "def", "repeat" instead of "for", and Logo does turtle graphics without needing to import a special package. Logo was the first programming language to use turtle graphics.
@@IARRCSim yeah I knew that it's a different programming language. But yeah I found a similarity to the turtle programming language. I didn't even know that turtle graphics was a kind of "philosophy"?
Like OOP is a way of doing stuff in more programming languages hahs
no scratch and logo aren't comparable at all. scratch isn't just graphics
@@jh29a not just nowadays. I found print command support in every Logo interpreter I looked at from the 1980's. Scratch is very different because it uses visual programming which is a lot slower to work with when you get beyond the first couple hours of learning how to program.
kinda like scratch
🐢
🐢
@@juicyguyzer 🐢
@@Truttle1 🐢
@@snomisgod777 🐢
420 weed turtle.
yo, that's in python
Yes, Python has a turtle module. Python is a different programming language than Logo, though. You might care more about turtle graphics than Logo. It is important to see the distinction between Logo and turtle graphics, though. It is important to note that turtle graphics is more like an a graphics library, or a way to simulate turtles that can draw instead of confusing turtle graphics with the Logo programming language.
Finally a new video!
Also NOT FIRST
*it seems like i was in fact first lol*
This is the shortest length of time I've gone between uploads in a while...
I was about to comment the same
Oh lol I guess I missed the notification on the last vid
@@juicyguyzer Enrtopy!
yay
*S P I I N*
ping spoofing
I like php :(
Good
No one:
Truttle1 upload speed: _FORTEPIANO_
GOD I hate ALPLogo,our school teaches it till 8th grade where they finally teach us python.
Fr? we only taught how to use pascal (and occasionally c++)
truttle graphics
So is this a furry channel?
47th view. I like primes.
Its almost to 49: a perfect square!
@@Truttle1 Aye, I'm the 49th view!
99 views as of writing
Kewl :/