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Buddy, it's getting this way with literally EVERYTHING. Not sure if you're into computers but if you ever wanted to buy a graphics card at a good price, you missed your chance like 2.5 years ago. Worse yet, there'll be a 25% tax on them by next year. I'd say TVs are the only things that are worth the 1K for 75" real estate...and hopefully it stays that way🤞🏽
Getting a Yamaha rxv6a is all but impossible in the UK... constantly on back order. I'm convinced it's the wireless rear speakers support. And retailers have bumped price up on them knowing limited supply. I think the chip shortage is making stuff expensive. Even 2nd hand atmos eBay receivers are ridiculously expensive
@@danielmccarthy8386 yep it’s so annoying. Coupled with companies struggling with exporting since the chipset shortage too. I’m in the market for my first AVR and might just bite the bullet with whatever Richer Sounds have available
I mistakenly say the Denon X2800H has preamp outs, that is wrong. I meant to say X3800H. Sometimes I get all these X(number) names mixed up. My sincerest apologies for any and all confusion.
Your clarity about DIRAC and your honesty may not get brownie points from Sound United, but for your viewers, it is pure gold. Love and Respect. Keep up the great reviews. Too bad no cheesy lead in sound effects for Kristie's Breaking News. A Chiron would have been a good touch as well. 😉
To be honest, I never expected this information to be that big of a deal. I'm just providing answers to the questions you guys have asked repeatedly since the newer Denon/Marantz receivers came out.
Nice to see you are reviewing some decent budget separates. I have the Denon 1700H for a second bedroom system and am happy with it, even although my main system has a mighty Pioneer SCLX901 11 channel class D beast, this Denion is fine for either stereo or maybe a 5.1 second system.
Man that “update” it’s stupidly expensive. You buy a receiver , wait 1 year + for that feature and then get smacked with an update that might cost 25-30% + of the initial cost of the receiver. I hope they don’t go the automakers path and start asking for subscriptions for these kind of features… I’m glad I’m already mostly satisfied with the gear I have.
@@Pete.across.the.street when you pay 1000-1500$ for the receiver, to pay an extra ~30-20% just to get 1 feature when maybe the competition already has it on similar models - yes I think it's expensive if you compare with the device price/value. Those 350$ might be "cheap" if you buy a 10.000$ receiver, and would make more sense maybe. Dunno, for me it sounds expensive.
Fun and interesting video loved the breaking news segment. I’ve never bought an avr but I do find discussions on them informative after all you never know what you might purchase in the future.
Good morning Andrew and Kristi! This model seems fine, but I agree that spending more probably pays dividends long term. Also, I still prefer Onkyo options, but if Sound United works for others, good for them. QOTD: I'm not very surprised with the timeline of Dirac. This further cements my opinion that I primarily want features out of the box, not as a future upgrade. This feels a bit like day 1 DLC in games, which I detest. While the pricing for Dirac upgrades is probably somewhat outside Sound United's control, it feels steep to me.
Hey guys. My first home cinema receiver is the Denon X1700H, bought it last year. It was the only AVR in its range that I could trust it would run my old Revox BX 350's that I wanted for my home cinema, since it has 4Ohm capable drive. People say I do it and just go with 8 but I really don't want to hurt my speakers. Anyways to the point now: I am very satisfied with my Denon, I love this thing with all my heart, never have trouble with volume settings and distortion, since I live in an apartment that might be the case. It might be the speakers fault, but the sound just seems so neutral to me, and I haven't even hooked up a good subwoofer yet, since I haven't stolen from my dad a good one yet. 😅. I say you'll be very satisfied with this thing, and my speakers are kinda hard to drive, so most other people should be ok. I love the Denon. Have some problems with HEOS sometimes but I never tried to hook up ethernet so that might b a problem, and I don't really care much about HEOS. I found HEOS + Tidal to have worked the best.
My pre-ordered Pioneer VSX-LX305 is ever gaining in value. Ordered in February for 1,000 €, now on offer for 1,600 €. Still not shipping but will have DIRAC included. I suppose Pioneer increased their price when they saw that Sound United takes 1,899 € for the Marantz Cinema 50 (in Germany), without DIRAC. Considering your pricing info for the DIRAC update I hardly mind the 10 month “delivery time” for the Pioneer anymore. Thank you so much for the excellent work.
I recently bought an x1700h DAB, after a bit of setting-up issues (mostly related to the HTPC, so not the DENON's fault), I'm quite happy with it. featurewise I can do (almost) anything I would want with it, only zone2 is a bit limiting in that respect it's also a bit sad that I do not have decent DAB reception inside, so I will probably have to arrange some sort of outside antenna The kids love that surround is working again ! my 2c.
I’m not an enthusiast. I just want to enjoy media in surround. Don’t have room for full range and only use satellite speakers. The same that came with my budget Pioneer 5.1 set a number of years ago. Replaced the subwoofer since but the speakers have remained through three receivers, the Denon being the most recent. For 5.1 surround with satellite speakers, budget Denon is fantastic. More reliable than Onkyo so far as well.
LOVE my DEMON receiver. It’s Hi-Fi. It has the highest quality fidelity. Hi-Fi. That’s two of the most important things to have with a receiver. I bought mine from Bucks Superior Stereo World.
I'm new to this audiophile scene, but since discovering over the last few years that I have a passion for all things tech and audio. I've decided that I want to invest in a good AV receiver. I'm on a fairly tight budget. After much research I've narrowed it down to 3 1. Pioneer VSX-935 2. Yamaha RX-V6A 3. DENON X1700H The one stipulation was that there is a phono connection, as I have a vast vinyl collection of soul and funk going back decades that I want to resurrect from storage and play again on my project turntable. Which one should I go for?
The s760h's DO have the high quality four 300MHz DSP cores and 32bit DAC's! it is the same board as the x1700h, in case any one's wondering. the lower Audyssey version doesn't matter much , definitely use the app! All other S series receivers have the cheap DAC's and DSP like the s960h, that Andrew addresses
Love and have loved Denon receivers and components for decades. Audessey works great. I've also had receivers with Dirac and I prefer Dirac over Audessey. However, if it meant an additional $259 - $349 to get room correction on receivers that are already expensive, (because it already makes zero sense to drop that coin on a sub-$1000 receiver, being half to more than a third of its price for a redundant feature. And it makes even less sense on $1000+ receivers because it should already be included at that price) I'll just stick with the native room correction already on-board. What I like about Dirac over Audessey is the UI of it. Just a better interface and user friendly. That being said, the interface is not unusable or terrible on Audessey. It's just not as "modern" as Dirac. The functionality is still excellent on Audessey. To me, Dirac is the VHS to the Audessey's Betamax in the market place. Performance is about push but Dirac is on-board many brands' receivers and Audessey on only a few. Natural market forces caused this to happen and because of the inevitable Audessy extinction, Dirac senses a monopoly and are wanting to price gouge. I have no problem with companies making a profit. I do have a problem with price gouging. I am now thinking of Dirac with a curled lip.
Another great video. I am not surprised about the Dirac but I am by the cost. Anyway I got the Marantz cinema 50. You did a great job describing the sound! I am in total agreement with you. I just ordered the a pair of the emotive xpa h-c1 should be here this week. And did a pre-order of the polk R-700 not sure when they will ship!! I had to do my own Christmas shopping for my self..LOL
I would sum almost all entry level receivers up to use them with a sub/sat configuration in a small room. No point in taxing entry level amps with medium to hard to drive speakers. I am fortunate enough to have moved past the point of bothering what power receivers provide (can be so misleading) as I drive ALL my speakers with power amps and even though they are highly efficient to drive the difference is still audible especially at high volumes. I wonder how reliable Denon are these days as I had 2 Denon receivers with both DSP chips that failed. Since then I moved to Pioneer and to this day not even a hint of issue. I really liked the signature warm sound of my old Denons but Pioneer definitely filled that gap. Although considered old now my Pioneer SC-LX59 is a rock solid receiver coupled with Rotel power amps (1582 MKII and 1555). I am also running a Pioneer receiver (VSX-924 + Rotel 1582MKI) on my gaming PC for surround sound. Love your channel and the quality! Its really a step up from the rest out there. I wish that more gear (and other brands) can be thrown your way for review. Looking forward to the next review!
Good morning! Loved this one. I agree with Kristi Denon sound is not my favorite either, but I have an old AVR X1000 and an old pair of Klipsch bookshelf that I hate on any other amp I’ve ever put them on. But that Denon is magic with them. Funny that they still use that crappy user interface !Have a great week.
@@KristiWright exactly!! I have terrible hearing of high frequencies so it’s funny the ones that I hear the worst or the least of are the ones that bother me the most.
I live in a modest european apartment so power is not really something I need. My current stereo amp outputs 30W and is more than enough. I was looking at this as a cheaper alternative to the slim Marantz (now the Cinema 70s), but seeing this review has convinced me to maybe wait a couple of months and save more. The Marantz is coming out this month for 1.000 EUR while the x1700h around 800 right now. Less power will make no difference to me really, while saving space is a big win (plus it looks so nice.)
Great video as always, but need to point out an error. Andrew, you misspoke right before kicking it over to Kristi regarding the 2800 as you said the 2800 has pre-outs, but it doesn't, the 3800 is where pre-outs begin.
So, I bought an Emotiva BasX A2 and am using a Maranta NR1200. I'm totally good for now; I'm just loving this combo. I'm just curious if you would ever consider adding an "Now as a pre-amp" type section to your reviews for HT receivers and integrated amps? Dedicated HT preamps with HDMI switching are, for the most part, far more expensive than most HT receivers with pre-amp outs. Keep up the awesome work!
I had a S series and a X series Denon and returned both. I now have a Sony STR DN1080 and love it. The issue with the Denon is Audyssey. I just never sounded right no matter what I did. I also noticed doing back to back calibrations gave different results. Long story short I was tired of fiddling with it. I ran the calibration on the Sony and man that thing sounds punchy and vibrant!! I may give Denon another try if they switch to Dirac but for now I'm good with my STR DN1080.
Thanks for the great video yet again Andrew! I was wondering if (firstly) we can expect another great educational video from you soon? And (secondly) what your view is with regards to cheaper gear from the same line (like the X1700H vs X2800H you mentioned in this video), but in general? What according to you does one really gain going up (or lose going down) the same line - but in a sort of 'Andrew's law' kind of way.
As a retired service tech, i used to repair most brands, and whilst entry level models are far easier to repair they are made down to a price with cheap components and some models just don't sound good at all. The more upmarket models sound better until they go wrong, and boy do Onkyo's go wrong! I just hope that newer models at this end of the market are getting better, they are a better buy than feature laden models that cost a fortune and will at some point fail, you don't want to own one that is out of warranty. Just think of them like cars, and you will be fine.
Great review. I still have an older Denon receiver that I think I will stick with for now, but I know that in the next few years, I will probably need to upgrade. I also noticed that you decided on sticking with the Sony X95K over the LG. I am excited, since I am getting mine in a week and a half.
I love your channel very much. However when it comes to Denon I wish you would review their upper models such as Denon avr-x6700h, Denon avr-x8500h recievers. Like for example Yamaha's Avantage A8A and Denon's avr-x6700h are the same price. So ...
Huh... Interesting to hear Kristi's take about the 'sound' of Denon receivers. Great advice for folks looking for a less expensive receiver like I am. Appreciate the great vids!
I've owned the S-line and currently have an X2400H...even my wife admits there is a massive difference in sound quality between the two receivers. It's driving old B&W CM and CDM series speakers and I think it sounds phenomenal
Yes, I couldn’t wait long enough for this video, I bought the Denon DRA-800H about a week ago. Really great and the internals are soundwise much better than in the x1700h of course. Stereo instead of 7.2 but still lots of HDMI inputs up to 4K60 :-) Onkyo won’t be really here in Europe for quite some time as the distributor has been changed. But i bought the Polk XT70s. Thanks for the tip!
Walked into the electronics store just wanting to buy a $500 HDMI television to replace my old Pioneer Plasma TV. I walked out $2,800.00 poorer! What just happened? That did include a Sony Blue Ray player but that was only $73.00. Had to get a new receiver that was HDMI compatible. All the other accessories killed me. I feel like I was mugged! Now I have to upgrade my cable box. Talk about an Evinrude being shoved up my kiester!
I'm a fan of Marantz and own the SR8012 and AV8805 but think if i had to replace either of them i would be looking elsewhere. Their new pricing is insane and the additional cost for Dirac is just crazy. For what they are charging for these new models it should be included free of charge.
I still have a Denon DRA-800H two years still brand new in the box. So far my cheap Yamaha RS 202 stereo receiver is working great, I use my 43" Hisense TV also my Computer monitor, hooked up by a optical to my Node 2i ,and my Mac mini with a cheap headphone 192 DAC dongle. I've. had a Denon in the past, but blewup on me. To me they tend to overheat. I just like two Chanel sound, did the the whole 5.1 years ago, but being old, I miss the old two channel sound I grew up with in the 60's and 70's. My da'd favorite was the old JC penny's stereo receiver.Derac for new equipment is like blackmail! I still use the sweet spot for my listening.
Another splendid video as always guys. Hoping you'll now perhaps do a video specifically on the DIRAC situation once you've had more time to think on it. I've been putting off my AVR purchase as I await the release of the Denon AVR-X4800H. It hits the sweet spot of a premium AVR without heading into the stratosphere pricewise. But now with the news of the pricing for DIRAC and not knowing when the bass control will be available (or if even an additional charge?) it really turns me off from Sound United. This feels like price gouging, and I'd rather go somewhere to pay one price and be done with it.
Love you guys!! Could watch and listen all day long. I just needed to give my opinion on what an audiophile really is. According to my grandfather, unless you have built every piece of your equipment, you are an audio enthusiast, not an audiophile. Those that design, build and complete a piece of audio equipment, is more of an audiophile than anybody who walks in and simply buys their equipment. Yes, the discussions will come, but anybody who is worth their weight will agree, we all have an opinion on what sounds / looks good. That why electronics are so much fun! There is no perfect system. There are plenty of perfect systems to each individual, but not one complete system for all. That's what the constant pursuit of the ultimate sound is all about. Thanks!
Such a sparkling video from “The Dynamic Duo” - the TV version - Andrew (Adam West) & Kristy (Burt Ward) fighting crime 60’s style on the dirty streets of the AV world. I just need some “POW” and “THWACK” captions. And before you guys say it, I’ll say it first. When Andrew turned around and jumped in the sky, that moment was an Easter egg to Batman. And the hidden reference to black on the amps was a reference to the Batmobile. Andrew even said the word “camp”. Let’s hand it to them, “The Dynamic Duo” are back in town….🎉❤🎉❤🎉❤🎉❤🎉❤🎉❤. I pay attention to the details folks……
Glad I found this channel, great stuff! I actually just ordered Polk R100s & r300 center to replace my Polk S series L/C/R in my 7.1.2 setup. I also ordered Klipsch rp500m II with rp500c II center… mainly because I couldn’t find a good comparison and just love the look of both. I will be powering them with my oldish Denon AVR2200W, but your videos have me hit by the bug… You mentioned in this video that you don’t think this receiver could handle Polk Reserve, which means mine likely won’t either. I would love to know your thoughts on my process, happy to donate for your expert knowledge! I mainly use this setup for movies and Tv.
I thought the rumors had Denon's Dirac upgrade cost to be around 500. I also thought that it was already hinted that bass control would be further out than standard Dirac or never. What, exactly, are Dirac Limited and Bass control? Also, where's the link to that cool remote-control dish? As for the Denon1700, forget Dirac, I wish receivers in this class had wireless surround speakers, then I could ditch my finicky soundbar, buy a passive soundbar and have the receiver's flexibility.
The price for Dirac with Denon seems to be what the price is without manufacturer subsidies. You can currently buy Dirac Live as a software only solution and run it on a computer (when the computer is then the source). The price is then 349 as well.
This looks like an awesome piece for the price. Definitely on my short list for possible future upgrade. If only recievers at this price point still had 6-channel analog inputs. Regarding the high cost of the Dirac upgrade, that's a bit steep considering a determined soul with a sound pressure meter app and a tape measure can get a reciever really close to Dirac level of performance.
As a practically always a two channel guy, this doesn’t bother me, but as a guy who likes to keep tabs on these things, charging $350 for a highly advertised and anticipated feature feels like a bit of a blackmail of sorts. You talk about it for months, you don’t give any real info on it and then you drop the bomb that it won’t come for another possibly half a year, and it’ll cost a third or a quarter of the entire amplifier. For software. Ouch. If I was in the market for a receiver, I’d probably look elsewhere if Dirac was important to me, regardless of all the rest of the benefits of Denon or Marantz. Great review guys! Supremely lovely conversation! 😅
@@Pete.across.the.street other brands do the same, and they don’t charge $350 for full version of the software. And Denon doesn’t even care which AVR it is, it’s the same exact cost for their entry level AVR supporting Dirac, or the flagship. The price is the same, even though you’re already dropping a few K on that flagship. Doesn’t seem fair does it? I just thing that price is a robbery. I’d genuinely buy something else if I needed Dirac.
My second Pioneer (basically Onkyo) AVR in the past 6 years just had its output HDMI port fail after 2 input ports failed over the last 12 months. Both Pioneers hardware failed fatally on me, and many other people also if you look it up. There is no way I’m buying another Onkyo or Pioneer ever again. They make cheap products that compare great on paper and sound good for 3 years, but then complete bust. I just hope Denon have better QA. I think you need to bring QA into your reviews.
Excellent discussion! Well, sounds to me that Sound United has caught the Mercedes bug to scoop up some lofty "license fees" from desperate owners. At the end of the day, this gives me yet another knock-out reason to only buy new "dumb" or vintage gear in the future. Edit: I honestly expect to see these "licenses" being made available by subscription only in the not so far future.
RE: your edit - I hate to say that I agree with you there but I would not be surprised if that ultimately happens. As photographers, we've already seen it happen. Long gone are the days where you could buy Photoshop (or anything Adobe) and wait several (to many) years before feeling the need to upgrade. No we "rent" our software.
The upgrade is too expensive, and I believe the release date when it is released and people actually confirm it works as expected. Denon is notoriously good at announcing features they will only release after a long, long time... or never. Now, which AVR would be a good choice as 2 channel pre-amp? How much do you have to spend for stuff you don't need, before there is no increase in sound quality? Actual AV preamps tend to be expensive and bad at their job, or extremely expensive and good at their job.
Even taking into account the exchange rate x we Canadians get SO FUCKED with pricing. Everything audio and video is hundreds of dollars more here.... I hope you guys down south appreciate how great you have it there...
@@andrewrobinsonreviews lol. As a California person who's been living in Canada for almost 13yrs, every time I squirm at the prices here, I remember I'm not getting destroyed in healthcare bills. Solid point.
The Onkyo 5100 seems to ship with binding posts throughout now, no more push pins. Onkyo probably realized they dun effed up since literally every review I've ever seen have been going on about the push pins. And justly so. Anyway, I noted that as I was comparing these entry level 7.2 options for my second setup, images of its rear panel (which very clearly has the TX-NR5100 designation on it) has binding posts. Now I just need to figure out what to go with, the Onkyo or this.
The Yamaha's V6 and V4 video internals have been upgraded to address the issues from 2020. Owners could send their units back for the retrofit, but the new ones ship with the corrected board from the factory.
I believe the problem with the Onkyo is its parallel sub outputs. They aren't independent in my understanding so the major strength of Dirac (it's Bass management - separate module) isn't available. While this is the plan for certain Marantz and Denon receivers. I would consider the Denon 3800H to be the equivalent of a 4700H after factoring in the costs for Dirac full spectrum correction and Bass management ($449 US). Anyway I wouldn't upgrade to the new Denon or Marantz models until the Dirac option is a realty instead of just a promise. Furthermore, I've read reviews where the 3800H is inferior to the 3700H in certain measurements that may result in actual differences that one may be able to hear. I'll stick with my 4700H with outboard amps for now and use the Audyssey app. I was considering the program on the Windows store, but it appears geared towards nerds that have more inclination to tinker than I do. Nowadays room correction has to be more powerful and easier to use, e.g. Sony's solution with its upper level soundbars. Sonos room correction is relatively easy but limited to only iOS apps. I don't want to live in Apple's utopia and limit myself to its ecosystem. I like a variety of choice to pick the items that work best for me. Sometimes that may be an Apple product, but sometimes it might be a competitor's product.
@@mikeweatherford5312 That's what I'm using, but I'm getting to the point in my life where I don't want to tinker that much. Give me a solution that gets me within spitting distance of what can be achieved without having to delve into the primordial ooze of complicated DSP solutions. The older I get the more I ascribe to the KISS principal. If that means a good quality soundbar solution then so be it.
Hey Andrew great review as always. I did watch your x3800h review as well in comparison. Could you please do a quick side note about the x3800h versus the x4700h? I know I saw that comparison request a lot on your x3800h review but I didn't know if that comparison was going to come soon or not
That marketing scam to pay 245 or whatever to have Dirac is just what "they" are amking the norm: buy the basics and then add a bunch of money to have the pluses, the premium. It is time to stop this crap. Soon, they will ask from you to pay 200 extra bucks to unlock a pair of channels, or the atmos or whatever they come up with. That marketing tactic is called: scam. Period.
Andrew & Kristi giving it to the giant that is SU. Love it! Personally, I recommend Anthem receivers to those who can afford them (ARC is easier than Dirac and just as effective). For budget receiver I recommend Yamaha receiver (better sound signature), and add a minidsp 2×4 hd for room correction.
I totally agree that up to $350 is quite expencive for something that(in my opinion) should be integrated in this new recivers without extra cost. Knowing this, my X-6500H are safe from the upgrade ghost for a good while longer ;) Perhaps next generation of recivers from Denon/Marantz will have this feature included. Let's hope :)
One of my first decisions when I read the Dirac price estimate from a SU rep a few months back was to compare ALL brands that incorporate DIRAC and make a decision based on total cost of ownership. Included in this was the notion that Bass management module was not a promise. I think this additional cost pushes other barands into the lead. An x4800h will cost me AU$4,000. I'm to pay an extra AU$500 for Dirac. That is an obscene amount for a software module that is debatably an improvement over the incorporated Audyssey Licence we have already paid for at purchase. If it were the Spatial room correction... sure that would be a big step forward if it delivers its promises. If Audyssey allow thei new X module to be used on these devices I think Dirac will be screwed.
@Andrew Robinson. Good review as usual. Always thorough. 👍 Now, all we need is for ANTHEM to come through. Like, Fa Real 🤔, so you can grace us with dat AV Receiver review. And a future review on some Revel Performa's- F or the Be series models 🤷♂️.
We went from our old MRX-500 to the X1700h, and at the volumes we play it the Denon sound is very close in quality, and I think the DACs even do better on digital lossless music files. We would have loved to stay with Anthem, but the cheapest option would have cost us three times as much. So, it wasn't an option.
Unfortunately my Denon S960H was all I could afford. But really I don't mind it I know one day I'll be able to upgrade 😁 2 things that you mentioned in that s960h review was the heat it gives off and when you turn it up passed a certain level the volume doesn't really get any louder. Mine doesn't heat up like that but I don't push it to an unbearable level. As I know budget receivers aren't made for that. 😭 The volume part though is so true. After that point it falls flat on its face. Anyways knowing what I know now I would have just saved more money and bought a better receiver. Great review I waiting for the end of the year reward video 🤠 ... Kristi way to put Andrew on the spot 😂 love it!!
Is your S960H a later serial number? I think if it number greater than 70,000 then you have a newer "fixed" model, in which case our review would not apply to your unit. Just curious if you've checked on that? Thanks as always for watching and GREAT video on your channel ua-cam.com/video/kFqLgD0MUsY/v-deo.html today!
@@andrewrobinsonreviews I can't see the back of the receiver 😂 but it may be a newer model I got it a little over a year ago... I have to upgrade my TV first... appreciate your support 🙂
I very recently got a pioneer lx505 (this is before the onkyo rz50 was in stock anywhere). It's supposedly more or less identical to the rz50. It had an issue where if I was using eARC from my TV, the first two seconds of audio was silent. This meant that the first two seconds of every song on an album was missed, and every time I paused and unpaused it was 2 seconds before audio resumed. No issues from other sources or if I used optical (but that's limited to 5.1 compressed). Returned it and bought a denon x3800h when it came out, and had no issues whatsoever. I miss Dirac though, but I get auro3d. Hopefully there is a sale on the Dirac upgrade.
I'm coming from an Denon 2308, over a decade old to this one... And I gotta be honest, the 2308 sounds much more natural and detailed. Sure my new x1700h has all the latest tech specs and 4k 120hz blah blah... But it just doesn't sound that impressive. Entry level or not, when youre dropping a grand (Canadian at least) you expect a little more
What do you think about this vs s970h. I know you hated the 960 but the 970H was on sale for $400 the other day and curious about the sound quality overall.
I am a long term Denon user and actually thinking about going some other road. Their feature list is long, but implementation is somewhat other story. With X3800, price wise they went significantly up, and then there is a $350 extra. On more detail about the Dirac upgrade, you'll need a calibrated microphone to actually use it. Umik-1 will do, but it's yet another extra cost. Supplied mic will not work.
I got the x1600h still a great reciever, does everything I want, need and sounds great. Only thing 'missing' is the 120hz passthrough but I don't need it as my consoles are directly plugged in to the tv's 2.1. hdmi. I use it for Atmos 5.1.2. front heights
Yep, I did the same thing and actually picked it up as a refurb for $350. Would have bought it new but I couldn't find it at a price that made sense for a 2019 receiver in 2023. But I went the same route, I prefer to have my gaming stuff hooked up directly to the TV, so it didn't make sense to pay for the extra video features of the x1700h.
@@Finn959 There is basically going to be slight latency with the video if you go through the receiver (so for something like competitive fps games, that could be a very minor, but still measurable impact), and slight delay with audio if you go through the tv first (so this would be more of an impact for rhythm based games and could potentially be more of a hindrance for movies, but can typically be adjusted for in both cases if so). There are also other potential issues with both methods -- through the TV you have concerns like LG doesn't pay for DTS licensing, so even though it's just a passthrough, you won't be able to run DTS through the TV, you'd need to send Dolby instead. Meanwhile gsync is flaky enough as it is directly to the TV, so running a gaming pc through a receiver can cause issues with that tech as well. So essentially it depends on the user and what your priorities are.
Unfortunately, the Dirac news has driven the discussion about the X1700H from the comment section and was probably not the reason people clicked on that video. The review itself was fair. I would have brought that Dirac topic up in a different video, because it is totally unrelated to the product that is reviewed.
[Our AirPlay problem is in the 2nd paragraph...] We're pretty happy so far with our 2-week-old x1700h that we got at a good discount in our small room playing through our vintage efficent Energy speakers and AR sub. We don't play that loud, as we live in an attached house, so the power limit isn't an issue. I'm still questioning how good the phono section is, so I might connect back up the Cambridge pre-amp to compare. Digital music sources like ALAC and even very high quality Spotify sounds excellent, though. Movies/TV sound great too, with the dialog enhancement somewhat helpful over what we heard before with our old system. BUT...we are having an issue with Airplay 2 sources. For the first 30-40 seconds it is jittering or stuttering, like it is getting the buffering or timing set. Then after it calms down and goes on playing with no issues and sounds excellent. This is off sources from either an iTunes Music library or from Spotify. I've tried both wired connections to the Denon and WiFi and they are doing the same thing. I've been running Airplay for years in the house, and have never run into this sort of thing. I can't duplicate the problem at other points in the house either. Another symptom we noticed is the timing between the Denon and other rooms sounds slightly off, somethng I've never heard before. Has anyone else seen heard this? Or have any tips to resolve it? I haven't contacted Denon yet as I wnated to go through basic troubleshooting to make sure it wasn't our network causing it. This problem is pretty annoying, because I really like the functionality of the amp automatically starting when I fire up music from our network remotely.
Hello Andrew, I have bought the old klipsch reference 5.1 Home Theater speaker and i’m searching the AV to go with. Denon AVR X1700h or the Pioneer VSX LX302 ? The pioneer is a bit expensive. Thanks
@@timnergaard3831 I haven't done anything much with it. It's what I expected the Onkyo nr6050 to be from Costco. I only have it connected to my Xbox One + my TCL r646. will have yet to see if it has any issues but setup was a breeze, havent tinkered with audysssey yet, just did the mic and got it up. I do have a 2nd PC out here in my living room but I haven't really used it much for any gaming.
I don't know if they are good but they are not cheap ! in europe their price increased from 700 at launch to 850 now, even after the X2800H came out the price didn't decrease
Hi Andrew- I truly enjoy your reviews and contributions to our hifi world. With your current recommendation for us 2.0 or 2.1 channel folks to consider AVR's for preamp use or all in one integrated use, it truly makes sense- especially when bass management is thrown in the mix. That being said, with all the mismanagement of current AVR choices- Onkyo RZ-50 backorder issues, Denon X3700 with the AKM dac chip issues, and the follow up dissapointment of the X3800- what are your thoughts in regards to a different direction like the Parasound Hint6 or P6 for those of use going seperates? The P6 is currently with me for about another 25 days (Thanks Crutchfield!!) and I am at a loss for which to choose for us 2.1 or 2.2 set ups. Any insights to share?
Hi Andrew and Kristi, love your reviews. I was wondering how does the x1700h compare stereo wise to the melody m-cr612? Since they are around the same price. Love to hear from you or somebody in the comments who knows anything about both models Robin
🎯 X1700H bit.ly/3ocJ0I7 • amzn.to/3vCooNE • bit.ly/3P5xM3C
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what is the difference tween denon sound and onkyo sound?
Nice review keep up the good work Andrew Robinson
why you never mention the XBOX, always PS5, when both or should i say the Xbox is a lot better IMO ?
Broadly speaking It's kind of worrying that a receiver at £620 is considered budget. This hobby is certainly not for the masses.
Buddy, it's getting this way with literally EVERYTHING. Not sure if you're into computers but if you ever wanted to buy a graphics card at a good price, you missed your chance like 2.5 years ago. Worse yet, there'll be a 25% tax on them by next year. I'd say TVs are the only things that are worth the 1K for 75" real estate...and hopefully it stays that way🤞🏽
You got THAT right, buddy. When you’re right, you’re right. Everything is relative…
Get a two channels setup then 😜
Getting a Yamaha rxv6a is all but impossible in the UK... constantly on back order. I'm convinced it's the wireless rear speakers support. And retailers have bumped price up on them knowing limited supply. I think the chip shortage is making stuff expensive. Even 2nd hand atmos eBay receivers are ridiculously expensive
@@danielmccarthy8386 yep it’s so annoying. Coupled with companies struggling with exporting since the chipset shortage too. I’m in the market for my first AVR and might just bite the bullet with whatever Richer Sounds have available
I mistakenly say the Denon X2800H has preamp outs, that is wrong. I meant to say X3800H. Sometimes I get all these X(number) names mixed up. My sincerest apologies for any and all confusion.
Shame!!! Shame on you for not remembering every single nuance. I am unsubscribing. (From some other channel yet to be determined)
Andrew's reaction to my DIRAC news is 🤌😅
Definitely enjoyed that portion in here! As always, supremely entertaining content.
😁
I’m thinking at those prices why bother with DIRAC! Put that kind of money into a better model AVR! And be done with it!
Doesn't the lower model Onkyo TX NR7100 have full bandwidth Dirac built in for just under $1000.00? I know the RZ50 does.
@@Audiomainia2310 yes, but msrp is 1299$, though it can be had for 969$ open box full warranty
Your clarity about DIRAC and your honesty may not get brownie points from Sound United, but for your viewers, it is pure gold. Love and Respect. Keep up the great reviews. Too bad no cheesy lead in sound effects for Kristie's Breaking News. A Chiron would have been a good touch as well. 😉
To be honest, I never expected this information to be that big of a deal. I'm just providing answers to the questions you guys have asked repeatedly since the newer Denon/Marantz receivers came out.
I think that DIRAC pricing made up my mind on the RZ50. Thanks for your insight.
Nice to see you are reviewing some decent budget separates. I have the Denon 1700H for a second bedroom system and am happy with it, even although my main system has a mighty Pioneer SCLX901 11 channel class D beast, this Denion is fine for either stereo or maybe a 5.1 second system.
As a user of this receiver, I couldn't agree more with Andrew's assessment. For my use case and budget, it works for me, and I'm happy with it.
You two are talking so naturally on camera, it's always a pleasure to watch your videos 😚
Man that “update” it’s stupidly expensive. You buy a receiver , wait 1 year + for that feature and then get smacked with an update that might cost 25-30% + of the initial cost of the receiver. I hope they don’t go the automakers path and start asking for subscriptions for these kind of features… I’m glad I’m already mostly satisfied with the gear I have.
@@Pete.across.the.street when you pay 1000-1500$ for the receiver, to pay an extra ~30-20% just to get 1 feature when maybe the competition already has it on similar models - yes I think it's expensive if you compare with the device price/value. Those 350$ might be "cheap" if you buy a 10.000$ receiver, and would make more sense maybe. Dunno, for me it sounds expensive.
Fun and interesting video loved the breaking news segment. I’ve never bought an avr but I do find discussions on them informative after all you never know what you might purchase in the future.
Good morning Andrew and Kristi!
This model seems fine, but I agree that spending more probably pays dividends long term. Also, I still prefer Onkyo options, but if Sound United works for others, good for them.
QOTD: I'm not very surprised with the timeline of Dirac. This further cements my opinion that I primarily want features out of the box, not as a future upgrade. This feels a bit like day 1 DLC in games, which I detest. While the pricing for Dirac upgrades is probably somewhat outside Sound United's control, it feels steep to me.
Hey guys. My first home cinema receiver is the Denon X1700H, bought it last year. It was the only AVR in its range that I could trust it would run my old Revox BX 350's that I wanted for my home cinema, since it has 4Ohm capable drive. People say I do it and just go with 8 but I really don't want to hurt my speakers. Anyways to the point now: I am very satisfied with my Denon, I love this thing with all my heart, never have trouble with volume settings and distortion, since I live in an apartment that might be the case. It might be the speakers fault, but the sound just seems so neutral to me, and I haven't even hooked up a good subwoofer yet, since I haven't stolen from my dad a good one yet. 😅. I say you'll be very satisfied with this thing, and my speakers are kinda hard to drive, so most other people should be ok. I love the Denon. Have some problems with HEOS sometimes but I never tried to hook up ethernet so that might b a problem, and I don't really care much about HEOS. I found HEOS + Tidal to have worked the best.
Thank you for reviewing the 1700h Andrew and pointing out all the alternatives and pros vs cons.
As far as Dirac goes, if I was a potential customer, I would only get a receiver that had it already built in at time of purchase
My pre-ordered Pioneer VSX-LX305 is ever gaining in value. Ordered in February for 1,000 €, now on offer for 1,600 €. Still not shipping but will have DIRAC included. I suppose Pioneer increased their price when they saw that Sound United takes 1,899 € for the Marantz Cinema 50 (in Germany), without DIRAC. Considering your pricing info for the DIRAC update I hardly mind the 10 month “delivery time” for the Pioneer anymore.
Thank you so much for the excellent work.
I recently bought an x1700h DAB, after a bit of setting-up issues (mostly related to the HTPC, so not the DENON's fault), I'm quite happy with it.
featurewise I can do (almost) anything I would want with it, only zone2 is a bit limiting in that respect
it's also a bit sad that I do not have decent DAB reception inside, so I will probably have to arrange some sort of outside antenna
The kids love that surround is working again !
my 2c.
I’m not an enthusiast. I just want to enjoy media in surround. Don’t have room for full range and only use satellite speakers. The same that came with my budget Pioneer 5.1 set a number of years ago. Replaced the subwoofer since but the speakers have remained through three receivers, the Denon being the most recent. For 5.1 surround with satellite speakers, budget Denon is fantastic. More reliable than Onkyo so far as well.
thanks for once again solidifying that i made the right choice buying the RZ50
could hhave gone for the x3800h in that price category
@@diebackmischung503 200$ more and an additional 350 for Dirac that doesn’t even exist yet? I’ll pass.
LOVE my DEMON receiver. It’s Hi-Fi. It has the highest quality fidelity. Hi-Fi. That’s two of the most important things to have with a receiver. I bought mine from Bucks Superior Stereo World.
Learned about the x1700h AND learned about Receiver in general. Very good video. Thanks.
I Am Loving My RZ50 Even More Now.
It's great!
@robinsonbrand It Really Is, I Just Paired It With The OSD XA5180 Amp It's Awesome
I'm new to this audiophile scene, but since discovering over the last few years that I have a passion for all things tech and audio. I've decided that I want to invest in a good AV receiver. I'm on a fairly tight budget. After much research I've narrowed it down to 3
1. Pioneer VSX-935
2. Yamaha RX-V6A
3. DENON X1700H
The one stipulation was that there is a phono connection, as I have a vast vinyl collection of soul and funk going back decades that I want to resurrect from storage and play again on my project turntable. Which one should I go for?
so what did you get?
The s760h's DO have the high quality four 300MHz DSP cores and 32bit DAC's! it is the same board as the x1700h, in case any one's wondering. the lower Audyssey version doesn't matter much , definitely use the app!
All other S series receivers have the cheap DAC's and DSP like the s960h, that Andrew addresses
Love and have loved Denon receivers and components for decades. Audessey works great. I've also had receivers with Dirac and I prefer Dirac over Audessey.
However, if it meant an additional $259 - $349 to get room correction on receivers that are already expensive, (because it already makes zero sense to drop that coin on a sub-$1000 receiver, being half to more than a third of its price for a redundant feature. And it makes even less sense on $1000+ receivers because it should already be included at that price) I'll just stick with the native room correction already on-board. What I like about Dirac over Audessey is the UI of it. Just a better interface and user friendly. That being said, the interface is not unusable or terrible on Audessey. It's just not as "modern" as Dirac. The functionality is still excellent on Audessey.
To me, Dirac is the VHS to the Audessey's Betamax in the market place. Performance is about push but Dirac is on-board many brands' receivers and Audessey on only a few. Natural market forces caused this to happen and because of the inevitable Audessy extinction, Dirac senses a monopoly and are wanting to price gouge.
I have no problem with companies making a profit. I do have a problem with price gouging. I am now thinking of Dirac with a curled lip.
Thank you for your good review as usual👍. Now I have something to think about 🙂
Another great video. I am not surprised about the Dirac but I am by the cost. Anyway I got the Marantz cinema 50. You did a great job describing the sound! I am in total agreement with you. I just ordered the a pair of the emotive xpa h-c1 should be here this week. And did a pre-order of the polk R-700 not sure when they will ship!! I had to do my own Christmas shopping for my self..LOL
I would sum almost all entry level receivers up to use them with a sub/sat configuration in a small room. No point in taxing entry level amps with medium to hard to drive speakers. I am fortunate enough to have moved past the point of bothering what power receivers provide (can be so misleading) as I drive ALL my speakers with power amps and even though they are highly efficient to drive the difference is still audible especially at high volumes. I wonder how reliable Denon are these days as I had 2 Denon receivers with both DSP chips that failed. Since then I moved to Pioneer and to this day not even a hint of issue. I really liked the signature warm sound of my old Denons but Pioneer definitely filled that gap. Although considered old now my Pioneer SC-LX59 is a rock solid receiver coupled with Rotel power amps (1582 MKII and 1555). I am also running a Pioneer receiver (VSX-924 + Rotel 1582MKI) on my gaming PC for surround sound.
Love your channel and the quality! Its really a step up from the rest out there. I wish that more gear (and other brands) can be thrown your way for review.
Looking forward to the next review!
Onkyo all day!!!
He gets it.
Good morning! Loved this one. I agree with Kristi Denon sound is not my favorite either, but I have an old AVR X1000 and an old pair of Klipsch bookshelf that I hate on any other amp I’ve ever put them on. But that Denon is magic with them. Funny that they still use that crappy user interface !Have a great week.
Thanks for watching. If you buy a little more upmarket Denon you do get the new, nicer UI FWIW.
I'm guessing the Denon you love tames the (older) Klipsch harsher highs. Maybe?
@@KristiWright exactly!! I have terrible hearing of high frequencies so it’s funny the ones that I hear the worst or the least of are the ones that bother me the most.
One of the best reviews and conversations between you both ever.
I live in a modest european apartment so power is not really something I need. My current stereo amp outputs 30W and is more than enough. I was looking at this as a cheaper alternative to the slim Marantz (now the Cinema 70s), but seeing this review has convinced me to maybe wait a couple of months and save more. The Marantz is coming out this month for 1.000 EUR while the x1700h around 800 right now. Less power will make no difference to me really, while saving space is a big win (plus it looks so nice.)
Great video as always, but need to point out an error.
Andrew, you misspoke right before kicking it over to Kristi regarding the 2800 as you said the 2800 has pre-outs, but it doesn't, the 3800 is where pre-outs begin.
You are correct, that was my slip up in reading my own script. Meant to say the X3800H has the preamp outs. Apologies and thanks for catching that!
No problem! Thanks for the great content!
So, I bought an Emotiva BasX A2 and am using a Maranta NR1200. I'm totally good for now; I'm just loving this combo. I'm just curious if you would ever consider adding an "Now as a pre-amp" type section to your reviews for HT receivers and integrated amps? Dedicated HT preamps with HDMI switching are, for the most part, far more expensive than most HT receivers with pre-amp outs. Keep up the awesome work!
I had a S series and a X series Denon and returned both. I now have a Sony STR DN1080 and love it. The issue with the Denon is Audyssey. I just never sounded right no matter what I did. I also noticed doing back to back calibrations gave different results. Long story short I was tired of fiddling with it. I ran the calibration on the Sony and man that thing sounds punchy and vibrant!! I may give Denon another try if they switch to Dirac but for now I'm good with my STR DN1080.
What a pity..The Sony STR1080 already discontinued since last year.
I would appreciate effort to research and inform us about DAC issues, newer Denons tend to have poor DAC compared to older series
Thanks for the great video yet again Andrew! I was wondering if (firstly) we can expect another great educational video from you soon? And (secondly) what your view is with regards to cheaper gear from the same line (like the X1700H vs X2800H you mentioned in this video), but in general? What according to you does one really gain going up (or lose going down) the same line - but in a sort of 'Andrew's law' kind of way.
I got a 1600H and that sounds great with JAMO 807... So bet the 1700h is great with them too.
As a retired service tech, i used to repair most brands, and whilst entry level models are far easier to repair
they are made down to a price with cheap components and some models just don't sound good at all.
The more upmarket models sound better until they go wrong, and boy do Onkyo's go wrong!
I just hope that newer models at this end of the market are getting better, they are a better buy than feature laden
models that cost a fortune and will at some point fail, you don't want to own one that is out of warranty.
Just think of them like cars, and you will be fine.
Great review. I still have an older Denon receiver that I think I will stick with for now, but I know that in the next few years, I will probably need to upgrade.
I also noticed that you decided on sticking with the Sony X95K over the LG. I am excited, since I am getting mine in a week and a half.
I love your channel very much. However when it comes to Denon I wish you would review their upper models such as Denon avr-x6700h, Denon avr-x8500h recievers. Like for example Yamaha's Avantage A8A and Denon's avr-x6700h are the same price. So ...
Huh... Interesting to hear Kristi's take about the 'sound' of Denon receivers. Great advice for folks looking for a less expensive receiver like I am. Appreciate the great vids!
I've owned the S-line and currently have an X2400H...even my wife admits there is a massive difference in sound quality between the two receivers. It's driving old B&W CM and CDM series speakers and I think it sounds phenomenal
Thanks for the video and the news on Dirac.
Yes, I couldn’t wait long enough for this video, I bought the Denon DRA-800H about a week ago. Really great and the internals are soundwise much better than in the x1700h of course. Stereo instead of 7.2 but still lots of HDMI inputs up to 4K60 :-) Onkyo won’t be really here in Europe for quite some time as the distributor has been changed. But i bought the Polk XT70s. Thanks for the tip!
I had two DRA-800H, first had a channel fry, second the software totally crash & bricked the unit.
Good luck
@@TxZick thanks. I’ll hope for the best.
Walked into the electronics store just wanting to buy a $500 HDMI television to replace my old Pioneer Plasma TV. I walked out $2,800.00 poorer! What just happened? That did include a Sony Blue Ray player but that was only $73.00. Had to get a new receiver that was HDMI compatible. All the other accessories killed me. I feel like I was mugged! Now I have to upgrade my cable box. Talk about an Evinrude being shoved up my kiester!
I'm a fan of Marantz and own the SR8012 and AV8805 but think if i had to replace either of them i would be looking elsewhere. Their new pricing is insane and the additional cost for Dirac is just crazy. For what they are charging for these new models it should be included free of charge.
Love budget reviews!
I still have a Denon DRA-800H two years still brand new in the box. So far my cheap Yamaha RS 202 stereo receiver is working great, I use my 43" Hisense TV also my Computer monitor, hooked up by a optical to my Node 2i ,and my Mac mini with a cheap headphone 192 DAC dongle. I've. had a Denon in the past, but blewup on me. To me they tend to overheat. I just like two Chanel sound, did the the whole 5.1 years ago, but being old, I miss the old two channel sound I grew up with in the 60's and 70's. My da'd favorite was the old JC penny's stereo receiver.Derac for new equipment is like blackmail! I still use the sweet spot for my listening.
Another splendid video as always guys. Hoping you'll now perhaps do a video specifically on the DIRAC situation once you've had more time to think on it. I've been putting off my AVR purchase as I await the release of the Denon AVR-X4800H. It hits the sweet spot of a premium AVR without heading into the stratosphere pricewise. But now with the news of the pricing for DIRAC and not knowing when the bass control will be available (or if even an additional charge?) it really turns me off from Sound United. This feels like price gouging, and I'd rather go somewhere to pay one price and be done with it.
I have the x1700H. It's a very good receiver for the money!
Appreciate you sharing and thank you for watching!
Love you guys!! Could watch and listen all day long. I just needed to give my opinion on what an audiophile really is. According to my grandfather, unless you have built every piece of your equipment, you are an audio enthusiast, not an audiophile. Those that design, build and complete a piece of audio equipment, is more of an audiophile than anybody who walks in and simply buys their equipment. Yes, the discussions will come, but anybody who is worth their weight will agree, we all have an opinion on what sounds / looks good. That why electronics are so much fun! There is no perfect system. There are plenty of perfect systems to each individual, but not one complete system for all. That's what the constant pursuit of the ultimate sound is all about. Thanks!
Thanks for the review! I personally wouldn't buy any product based on the "promise" of a future update, I think we learned that lesson with Yamaha.
Such a sparkling video from “The Dynamic Duo” - the TV version - Andrew (Adam West) & Kristy (Burt Ward) fighting crime 60’s style on the dirty streets of the AV world. I just need some “POW” and “THWACK” captions. And before you guys say it, I’ll say it first. When Andrew turned around and jumped in the sky, that moment was an Easter egg to Batman. And the hidden reference to black on the amps was a reference to the Batmobile. Andrew even said the word “camp”. Let’s hand it to them, “The Dynamic Duo” are back in town….🎉❤🎉❤🎉❤🎉❤🎉❤🎉❤. I pay attention to the details folks……
Glad I found this channel, great stuff! I actually just ordered Polk R100s & r300 center to replace my Polk S series L/C/R in my 7.1.2 setup. I also ordered Klipsch rp500m II with rp500c II center… mainly because I couldn’t find a good comparison and just love the look of both. I will be powering them with my oldish Denon AVR2200W, but your videos have me hit by the bug… You mentioned in this video that you don’t think this receiver could handle Polk Reserve, which means mine likely won’t either. I would love to know your thoughts on my process, happy to donate for your expert knowledge! I mainly use this setup for movies and Tv.
I thought the rumors had Denon's Dirac upgrade cost to be around 500. I also thought that it was already hinted that bass control would be further out than standard Dirac or never. What, exactly, are Dirac Limited and Bass control?
Also, where's the link to that cool remote-control dish?
As for the Denon1700, forget Dirac, I wish receivers in this class had wireless surround speakers, then I could ditch my finicky soundbar, buy a passive soundbar and have the receiver's flexibility.
Just bought this on Monday
You guys are great.
Thanks so much, we appreciate you watching!
The price for Dirac with Denon seems to be what the price is without manufacturer subsidies. You can currently buy Dirac Live as a software only solution and run it on a computer (when the computer is then the source). The price is then 349 as well.
Okay, good to know. I would think that given Sound United's purchasing/manufacturing power they could get that price down a little.
Sorry, I missed one critical bit: 349 is for stereo. For multichannel, the software only license directly from Dirac is 499 (for two computers).
This looks like an awesome piece for the price. Definitely on my short list for possible future upgrade. If only recievers at this price point still had 6-channel analog inputs.
Regarding the high cost of the Dirac upgrade, that's a bit steep considering a determined soul with a sound pressure meter app and a tape measure can get a reciever really close to Dirac level of performance.
As a practically always a two channel guy, this doesn’t bother me, but as a guy who likes to keep tabs on these things, charging $350 for a highly advertised and anticipated feature feels like a bit of a blackmail of sorts. You talk about it for months, you don’t give any real info on it and then you drop the bomb that it won’t come for another possibly half a year, and it’ll cost a third or a quarter of the entire amplifier. For software. Ouch. If I was in the market for a receiver, I’d probably look elsewhere if Dirac was important to me, regardless of all the rest of the benefits of Denon or Marantz. Great review guys! Supremely lovely conversation! 😅
@@Pete.across.the.street other brands do the same, and they don’t charge $350 for full version of the software. And Denon doesn’t even care which AVR it is, it’s the same exact cost for their entry level AVR supporting Dirac, or the flagship. The price is the same, even though you’re already dropping a few K on that flagship. Doesn’t seem fair does it? I just thing that price is a robbery. I’d genuinely buy something else if I needed Dirac.
My second Pioneer (basically Onkyo) AVR in the past 6 years just had its output HDMI port fail after 2 input ports failed over the last 12 months. Both Pioneers hardware failed fatally on me, and many other people also if you look it up. There is no way I’m buying another Onkyo or Pioneer ever again. They make cheap products that compare great on paper and sound good for 3 years, but then complete bust. I just hope Denon have better QA. I think you need to bring QA into your reviews.
Andrew and kristi love the channel, was wondering if you were planning on doing an avr review are arcam products, like the avr11,21, or 31
We've tried repeatedly to get Arcam but due to "stock issues" we have yet to be sent anything for review.
With Onkyo; do the AV receivers and Stereo Receivers have a big difference with two channel sound?
Worked incredible well for me. Love it.
Excellent discussion! Well, sounds to me that Sound United has caught the Mercedes bug to scoop up some lofty "license fees" from desperate owners. At the end of the day, this gives me yet another knock-out reason to only buy new "dumb" or vintage gear in the future.
Edit: I honestly expect to see these "licenses" being made available by subscription only in the not so far future.
RE: your edit - I hate to say that I agree with you there but I would not be surprised if that ultimately happens. As photographers, we've already seen it happen. Long gone are the days where you could buy Photoshop (or anything Adobe) and wait several (to many) years before feeling the need to upgrade. No we "rent" our software.
Andrew always appreciate your briefing
The upgrade is too expensive, and I believe the release date when it is released and people actually confirm it works as expected. Denon is notoriously good at announcing features they will only release after a long, long time... or never.
Now, which AVR would be a good choice as 2 channel pre-amp? How much do you have to spend for stuff you don't need, before there is no increase in sound quality? Actual AV preamps tend to be expensive and bad at their job, or extremely expensive and good at their job.
@@Pete.across.the.street Given how much others charge etc., yeah I think so.
The Dirac upgrade path is nice but overly expensive. 🖖🏼
I think they are just trying to stay ahead of inflation and don't want to have to increase prices later
Even taking into account the exchange rate x we Canadians get SO FUCKED with pricing. Everything audio and video is hundreds of dollars more here.... I hope you guys down south appreciate how great you have it there...
I would take universal health care in exchange for paying a little more for goods and services or going into debt just for getting sick.
@@andrewrobinsonreviews lol. As a California person who's been living in Canada for almost 13yrs, every time I squirm at the prices here, I remember I'm not getting destroyed in healthcare bills. Solid point.
@@andrewrobinsonreviews and wait a 6 months for MRI?
WE do
im rockin the DENON AVR5800 through a pair of Klipsch Legend 30s & I am thoroughly impressed with the performance at loud volumes.
The Onkyo 5100 seems to ship with binding posts throughout now, no more push pins. Onkyo probably realized they dun effed up since literally every review I've ever seen have been going on about the push pins. And justly so. Anyway, I noted that as I was comparing these entry level 7.2 options for my second setup, images of its rear panel (which very clearly has the TX-NR5100 designation on it) has binding posts. Now I just need to figure out what to go with, the Onkyo or this.
The Yamaha's V6 and V4 video internals have been upgraded to address the issues from 2020. Owners could send their units back for the retrofit, but the new ones ship with the corrected board from the factory.
I believe the problem with the Onkyo is its parallel sub outputs. They aren't independent in my understanding so the major strength of Dirac (it's Bass management - separate module) isn't available. While this is the plan for certain Marantz and Denon receivers. I would consider the Denon 3800H to be the equivalent of a 4700H after factoring in the costs for Dirac full spectrum correction and Bass management ($449 US). Anyway I wouldn't upgrade to the new Denon or Marantz models until the Dirac option is a realty instead of just a promise. Furthermore, I've read reviews where the 3800H is inferior to the 3700H in certain measurements that may result in actual differences that one may be able to hear. I'll stick with my 4700H with outboard amps for now and use the Audyssey app. I was considering the program on the Windows store, but it appears geared towards nerds that have more inclination to tinker than I do. Nowadays room correction has to be more powerful and easier to use, e.g. Sony's solution with its upper level soundbars. Sonos room correction is relatively easy but limited to only iOS apps. I don't want to live in Apple's utopia and limit myself to its ecosystem. I like a variety of choice to pick the items that work best for me. Sometimes that may be an Apple product, but sometimes it might be a competitor's product.
Just use mini dsp for subs…
@@mikeweatherford5312 That's what I'm using, but I'm getting to the point in my life where I don't want to tinker that much. Give me a solution that gets me within spitting distance of what can be achieved without having to delve into the primordial ooze of complicated DSP solutions. The older I get the more I ascribe to the KISS principal. If that means a good quality soundbar solution then so be it.
Hey Andrew great review as always. I did watch your x3800h review as well in comparison. Could you please do a quick side note about the x3800h versus the x4700h? I know I saw that comparison request a lot on your x3800h review but I didn't know if that comparison was going to come soon or not
That marketing scam to pay 245 or whatever to have Dirac is just what "they" are amking the norm: buy the basics and then add a bunch of money to have the pluses, the premium. It is time to stop this crap.
Soon, they will ask from you to pay 200 extra bucks to unlock a pair of channels, or the atmos or whatever they come up with.
That marketing tactic is called: scam. Period.
Andrew & Kristi giving it to the giant that is SU. Love it! Personally, I recommend Anthem receivers to those who can afford them (ARC is easier than Dirac and just as effective). For budget receiver I recommend Yamaha receiver (better sound signature), and add a minidsp 2×4 hd for room correction.
For the record, we're not "giving it" to anyone...just reporting the answers to questions you the viewers have asked.
I totally agree that up to $350 is quite expencive for something that(in my opinion) should be integrated in this new recivers without extra cost. Knowing this, my X-6500H are safe from the upgrade ghost for a good while longer ;) Perhaps next generation of recivers from Denon/Marantz will have this feature included. Let's hope :)
You can hope but I wouldn't put too much stock in that happening. If anything, I could see other brands following suit.
@@KristiWright I am afraid that you're probably right :)
One of my first decisions when I read the Dirac price estimate from a SU rep a few months back was to compare ALL brands that incorporate DIRAC and make a decision based on total cost of ownership.
Included in this was the notion that Bass management module was not a promise.
I think this additional cost pushes other barands into the lead.
An x4800h will cost me AU$4,000. I'm to pay an extra AU$500 for Dirac.
That is an obscene amount for a software module that is debatably an improvement over the incorporated Audyssey Licence we have already paid for at purchase.
If it were the Spatial room correction... sure that would be a big step forward if it delivers its promises.
If Audyssey allow thei new X module to be used on these devices I think Dirac will be screwed.
@Andrew Robinson. Good review as usual. Always thorough. 👍
Now, all we need is for ANTHEM to come through. Like, Fa Real 🤔, so you can grace us with dat AV Receiver review.
And a future review on some Revel Performa's- F or the Be series models 🤷♂️.
We went from our old MRX-500 to the X1700h, and at the volumes we play it the Denon sound is very close in quality, and I think the DACs even do better on digital lossless music files. We would have loved to stay with Anthem, but the cheapest option would have cost us three times as much. So, it wasn't an option.
Unfortunately my Denon S960H was all I could afford. But really I don't mind it I know one day I'll be able to upgrade 😁 2 things that you mentioned in that s960h review was the heat it gives off and when you turn it up passed a certain level the volume doesn't really get any louder. Mine doesn't heat up like that but I don't push it to an unbearable level. As I know budget receivers aren't made for that. 😭 The volume part though is so true. After that point it falls flat on its face. Anyways knowing what I know now I would have just saved more money and bought a better receiver. Great review I waiting for the end of the year reward video 🤠 ... Kristi way to put Andrew on the spot 😂 love it!!
Is your S960H a later serial number? I think if it number greater than 70,000 then you have a newer "fixed" model, in which case our review would not apply to your unit. Just curious if you've checked on that? Thanks as always for watching and GREAT video on your channel ua-cam.com/video/kFqLgD0MUsY/v-deo.html today!
What would you upgrade to today Nick?
@@andrewrobinsonreviews I can't see the back of the receiver 😂 but it may be a newer model I got it a little over a year ago... I have to upgrade my TV first... appreciate your support 🙂
@@umrryan if I had to right now and I had the choice the RZ50 would be in that spot right now.
@@movie_av_impulse appreciate the response and like that one as well!
I very recently got a pioneer lx505 (this is before the onkyo rz50 was in stock anywhere). It's supposedly more or less identical to the rz50. It had an issue where if I was using eARC from my TV, the first two seconds of audio was silent. This meant that the first two seconds of every song on an album was missed, and every time I paused and unpaused it was 2 seconds before audio resumed. No issues from other sources or if I used optical (but that's limited to 5.1 compressed).
Returned it and bought a denon x3800h when it came out, and had no issues whatsoever. I miss Dirac though, but I get auro3d. Hopefully there is a sale on the Dirac upgrade.
I'm coming from an Denon 2308, over a decade old to this one... And I gotta be honest, the 2308 sounds much more natural and detailed. Sure my new x1700h has all the latest tech specs and 4k 120hz blah blah... But it just doesn't sound that impressive. Entry level or not, when youre dropping a grand (Canadian at least) you expect a little more
What do you think about this vs s970h. I know you hated the 960 but the 970H was on sale for $400 the other day and curious about the sound quality overall.
I am a long term Denon user and actually thinking about going some other road. Their feature list is long, but implementation is somewhat other story. With X3800, price wise they went significantly up, and then there is a $350 extra.
On more detail about the Dirac upgrade, you'll need a calibrated microphone to actually use it. Umik-1 will do, but it's yet another extra cost. Supplied mic will not work.
Like comment subscribe! You are the best Andrew and Kristy keep it up!
I got the x1600h still a great reciever, does everything I want, need and sounds great. Only thing 'missing' is the 120hz passthrough but I don't need it as my consoles are directly plugged in to the tv's 2.1. hdmi. I use it for Atmos 5.1.2. front heights
Yep, I did the same thing and actually picked it up as a refurb for $350. Would have bought it new but I couldn't find it at a price that made sense for a 2019 receiver in 2023.
But I went the same route, I prefer to have my gaming stuff hooked up directly to the TV, so it didn't make sense to pay for the extra video features of the x1700h.
I own one but i hate Heos
@@lindigj do you think there will be latency issues when hooking it up to the 1700h first step?
@@Finn959 There is basically going to be slight latency with the video if you go through the receiver (so for something like competitive fps games, that could be a very minor, but still measurable impact), and slight delay with audio if you go through the tv first (so this would be more of an impact for rhythm based games and could potentially be more of a hindrance for movies, but can typically be adjusted for in both cases if so).
There are also other potential issues with both methods -- through the TV you have concerns like LG doesn't pay for DTS licensing, so even though it's just a passthrough, you won't be able to run DTS through the TV, you'd need to send Dolby instead. Meanwhile gsync is flaky enough as it is directly to the TV, so running a gaming pc through a receiver can cause issues with that tech as well.
So essentially it depends on the user and what your priorities are.
Unfortunately, the Dirac news has driven the discussion about the X1700H from the comment section and was probably not the reason people clicked on that video.
The review itself was fair. I would have brought that Dirac topic up in a different video, because it is totally unrelated to the product that is reviewed.
[Our AirPlay problem is in the 2nd paragraph...] We're pretty happy so far with our 2-week-old x1700h that we got at a good discount in our small room playing through our vintage efficent Energy speakers and AR sub. We don't play that loud, as we live in an attached house, so the power limit isn't an issue. I'm still questioning how good the phono section is, so I might connect back up the Cambridge pre-amp to compare. Digital music sources like ALAC and even very high quality Spotify sounds excellent, though. Movies/TV sound great too, with the dialog enhancement somewhat helpful over what we heard before with our old system.
BUT...we are having an issue with Airplay 2 sources. For the first 30-40 seconds it is jittering or stuttering, like it is getting the buffering or timing set. Then after it calms down and goes on playing with no issues and sounds excellent. This is off sources from either an iTunes Music library or from Spotify. I've tried both wired connections to the Denon and WiFi and they are doing the same thing. I've been running Airplay for years in the house, and have never run into this sort of thing. I can't duplicate the problem at other points in the house either. Another symptom we noticed is the timing between the Denon and other rooms sounds slightly off, somethng I've never heard before.
Has anyone else seen heard this? Or have any tips to resolve it? I haven't contacted Denon yet as I wnated to go through basic troubleshooting to make sure it wasn't our network causing it. This problem is pretty annoying, because I really like the functionality of the amp automatically starting when I fire up music from our network remotely.
All right! It must be Sunday!
It's Sunday alright!
😆
Hello Andrew,
I have bought the old klipsch reference 5.1 Home Theater speaker and i’m searching the AV to go with. Denon AVR X1700h or the Pioneer VSX LX302 ? The pioneer is a bit expensive.
Thanks
I was able to scoop this up because it has been faded out by denon by the new 1800h for $350 this black friday
where did you get the 1700h from? just purchased yesteday for $400 on accessories4less refurb
Has your experience been good so far?
@@timnergaard3831 I haven't done anything much with it. It's what I expected the Onkyo nr6050 to be from Costco. I only have it connected to my Xbox One + my TCL r646. will have yet to see if it has any issues but setup was a breeze, havent tinkered with audysssey yet, just did the mic and got it up.
I do have a 2nd PC out here in my living room but I haven't really used it much for any gaming.
I don't know if they are good but they are not cheap ! in europe their price increased from 700 at launch to 850 now, even after the X2800H came out the price didn't decrease
Inflation.
@@MrRaitzi Inflation ? from 700 to 850 in 1 year ??
no... it's just the manufacturers and resellers being greedy
@@Alice.59 euro has lost like 15% value against usd. That is why in Europe at least. Inflation in USA has been about 10% also.
Andrew for the price they denon marantz are charging for the upper models DIRAC should be free
Great video Andrew. Would love to see a review of the Denon AVR-A110
what about this one compared to the marantz NR1510?
Do you have a recommendation for a budget (ish) receiver with pre outs? Wanting to run a separate amp for my L/R. Currently running a Denon x2700h.
Hi Andrew- I truly enjoy your reviews and contributions to our hifi world. With your current recommendation for us 2.0 or 2.1 channel folks to consider AVR's for preamp use or all in one integrated use, it truly makes sense- especially when bass management is thrown in the mix. That being said, with all the mismanagement of current AVR choices- Onkyo RZ-50 backorder issues, Denon X3700 with the AKM dac chip issues, and the follow up dissapointment of the X3800- what are your thoughts in regards to a different direction like the Parasound Hint6 or P6 for those of use going seperates? The P6 is currently with me for about another 25 days (Thanks Crutchfield!!) and I am at a loss for which to choose for us 2.1 or 2.2 set ups. Any insights to share?
Hi Andrew and Kristi, love your reviews. I was wondering how does the x1700h compare stereo wise to the melody m-cr612? Since they are around the same price.
Love to hear from you or somebody in the comments who knows anything about both models
Robin
It's possible to use the 2 Channel of 7 to front right atmos?
Yes