I bought 2 Kawasaki A KLR and KLX but kept the KLX and thought about a KTM til I heard the word Chinese made and that was the end of my KTM journey. I then bought a Triumph Scrambler 400X and later found it was made in India and have no problem with that, in fact it's my favorite bike of all time.
Ktm should of focused on fewer bikes and better reliability & quality, i owned one from new and jt was a nightmare, cost ktm over £3.5k just in warranty repairs, i do hope ktm pull through and re structure
There's a few engineers who hace stripped the KTM engine and found misaligned drillings in the oilways. The problem then being caused by small pieces of debris being caught on the restriction. I have never seen KTM as the go to brand for off road as such. They have had a spotty history since the first bankrupcy in 91(ish).
This is so stupid argument backed with absolutely none proof. “Some technician tested some parts on some machine.” You probably never even owned a KTM in first place.
@@TubedTalk The "some technician" was Matt Hudson, of "Dirty Garage Guy" UA-cam channel (who is both a biker AND an actual mechanical engineer). His presentation of the issue is his best guess, he didn't state it was a fact but the video he did was backed up with plausible facts (he acquired ADV_Charlie's 790 head IIRC to investigate the issue). I believe that the official announcement of the issue from KTM, such as it is, does indeed point to an oil supply issue, though according to them, not the cross-drilling issue as per Matt Hudson, but the head and cam follower design (not manufacture). Oil pressure (a general lack of, due to the LC8c design), has also been suggested by others... Even now, it doesn't seem the official KTM line on this is entirely accurate/full of the facts! :(
Having been challenged over my previous comment about the majority of KTM bikes being manufactured in the far east. I would like to add that the relevant information is actually present on the KTM website: 125, 250 and 390 motorcycles are manufactured in India. 790 machines are manufactured in China. These are the machines which constitute the majority of KTM sales worldwide.
The trouble with KTM is that they've had poor quality control issues for years, plus a generally really obnoxious dealer network. The camshaft issue is just the latest in a long list of problems that many customers have experienced, and their usual arrogant response to it speaks volumes and has damaged the brand. Brand loyalty against the odds has its limits, and we're now at those limits. Add to that an economic downturn, and things have gone in the wrong direction very quickly.
finally some measure, well done - most of the muppets out there shouting the sky is falling in have little idea of the damage the are causing, hundreds of thousands of people are invested in ktm, owners, families, suppliers, after market and so on - idiots i see everywhere saying words like 'good', 'serves them right' , i hope they sink' and so on are just poisoned wretches and need a life lesson - imagine wanting a brand like ktm to fail.....absurd... FTR I own 2, one i have had since 2016 and one since 2021 and both are amazing and have cost bugger all except consumables. GREAT BIKES, GREAT COMPANY, made some errors but what multi billion firm doesn't? They will be fine 🙂 and the idiots can all eat crow and humble pie for some time after
Agreed! Fewer motorcycles and motorcycle companies for us to purchase from, makes the scene a poorer one for all of us. Why would we wish for that!!?? (not to mention the many thousands of people who's jobs (and therefore families/dependants) depend upon the industry!!)
Sad when any manufacturer goes under I bought a KTM fell for the year of the orange marketing I'm a very experienced Ryder I have bought over 30 bikes KTM was the worst Build quality time waiting for parts to arrive 6 months plus on a new bike also having to pay to unlock features is a downer I had already decided I will never buy a KTM again funnily enough I will consider a CF Moto but we'll see thanks for your video I do wish KTM all the best and hope that they learn from mistakes made.
your welcome, im glad the response in comments has been very constructive, exactly what i was hoping for. i seem to have attracted a very intelligent group of subscribers. ride safe.
Regardless of the financial probity or otherwise of KTM the issue is perception. The public hear the word administration and then will not gamble on buying that companies products. If your a small sub contract supplier to KTM you put them on pro forma or risk your own company. If you're a buyer are you going to buy a bike and hope the company stays around to support it or buy a safer bet. Reputation in business is everything and KTM have by their own actions and inactions damaged theirs to the point where the public will not buy at the moment. KTM's 27% drop in sales won't be turned around quickly if ever.
And even in the best of years (2023), 100 million profit would take many lifetimes to clawback the nearly 3BILLION debt they now have no chance of servicing, let along paying off!!
Just heard an estimate of what the price of the new 390 adventure will be when it goes on sale. It was £6700. I think thats too much. I would think around the £6000 mark would have been about right. I hope they dont shoot themselves in the foot by overpricing it. With their current difficulties, if they get this right, it could be a life saver for them.
@J.Harry.T I would imagine the design and tech are European. As far as Indian build quality goes it seems to be adequate. I had a 2018 390 Duke which was fine.
@ The quality of Chinese and Indian products is generally good and getting better all the time. However I don’t think all the KTM customers are prepared to pay premium European prices for those products. KTM are not alone in doing this, but they have been a bit greedy on the ‘mark-up’ and (it seems) some of their customers believe that the quality of the product is not as good as it used to be. It also seems to me that more than a few KTM (and Husqvarna) customers were happy to pay the high price only because they believed they had bought a European product. I think your 2018 bike probably was actually made in Europe.
@@J.Harry.T yes I agree with you..though my 18 duke was definately Indian assembled. I am not a fan of globalism. I wouldnt buy a chinese bike. I know its virtually impossible to buy anything not connected to china in some form but I draw the line where I can. Just dint like commies. 🤣
The debt figures being banded about range from very large to absolutely enormous. If true, this company must have been insolvent for years. I shall be curious to learn what assets they have. The majority of bikes are made by factories in the far east, which KTM does not own and which also manufacture for rival brands. My guess is that, other than some rented office space and the furniture inside it there will not be much for the creditors to squabble over.
This is absolutely not true. Majority of KTM production is in their factory in Austria. Just a small percentage is done in China. People just go out with silly, unconfirmed claims to easy. Specifically people that do not own KTM. For some reason, they are bashing on KTM more then KTm owners.
@ I have just re-checked via KTM website.. 125, 250 and 390 production is done in India. 790 production is in China. I understand these bikes constitute the majority of sales.
@mattmutane5502 My guess is that it was the absence of ‘profits’ that caused the shift to manufacturing in India and China. Additionally: I understand that some of the other machines which are still ‘assembled’ in Austria use engines manufactured in China. Hence KTM AG has 70.000 engines in stock, in addition to 100.000 complete motorcycles. I expect these will be shown as ‘assets’ on the balance sheet.
@@J.Harry.T Could be, BUT, to sell INTO China, and often to manufactuer, too, you need a Chinese "partner", so that was more likely the reason, I suspect :)
hi yes its hard to trust information from the net, its difficult to get accurate info on the share holders but from my research , the CEO of KTM owns 75% with the next largest being 5 %. im sure everything will come out in the end. the episode has certainly drawn out some good reasoned comment. interesting times ahead. ride safe
@@theartisanrider472 It's a VERY convoluted company structure, which is almost impossible to properly understand (good luck to the courts/administrators!! ;) ). But, simply, KTM AG is where most of the debt is, and where most of the "profit"/money making comes from too. Variously, Stefan Pierer, Bajaj and CFMoto own varying amounts of the various companies, but only Mr Pierer owns a controlling stake in all (any) of them!!
@@deltabluesdavidraye For the 790 (ex 890), and 990, based bikes, yes. Bajaj make the 125 and 390 based bikes in India, Matighoffen (Austrian) factory makes everything else (the more "premium" stuff), plus does all the R&D there. The "everything else", is a LOT of bikes!! (and the ones with the largest profit margins, too!!) :)
KTM Are the making of there own demise . TOO MUCH UNFUNDABLE DEBT . All this "ADMINISTRATION BULL SHIT " is a smoke screen . Stop woffling they are finished. Management / Accountants 100% responsible as usual . This did not happen in months .
Agreed. KTM are the architects of their own demise!! However, not to defend KTM, but it actually (sort of) did happen in months. They had a record 2023, made almost 100 million in profit and by end of Q2 2024, were losing money through both lack of sales and arguably, dumb/ego driven spending/purchasing (MV Augusta comes to mind, and further back, GasGas) However, surely, any fool could have seen the impending crisis coming (post COVID markets normalisation, historically low interest rates regression to the mean, economies in trouble all over the world MOST discretional spending being slashed (just look at the bicycle market crashing harder than even the motorcycle market!!). Any business leveraged up to the eyeballs on cheap debt was always going to come unstuck, and you could see it coming!! I strongly suspect Mr (Herr) Pierer was to some degree massaging his ego and he won't survive whatever the outcome is! (and surely, the now (ex) board were partly at fault for going along with the dumb business decisions being made in the last couple of years!!). It's very sad and I hope KTM can continue to exist, they sure do make some fun bikes! :D
I love KTM bikes and hope they come out of this wiser and better. A win at this Dakar would help.
I bought 2 Kawasaki A KLR and KLX but kept the KLX and thought about a KTM til I heard the word Chinese made and that was the end of my KTM journey. I then bought a Triumph Scrambler 400X and later found it was made in India and have no problem with that, in fact it's my favorite bike of all time.
Great example of Critical Thinking , something that needs applying in every facet of life. Thank you.
Really interesting chat, you echoed my thoughts exactly. Careless talk costs lives.
I hope KTM will be able to weed out the bad decision makers.
Ktm should of focused on fewer bikes and better reliability & quality, i owned one from new and jt was a nightmare, cost ktm over £3.5k just in warranty repairs, i do hope ktm pull through and re structure
There's a few engineers who hace stripped the KTM engine and found misaligned drillings in the oilways. The problem then being caused by small pieces of debris being caught on the restriction. I have never seen KTM as the go to brand for off road as such. They have had a spotty history since the first bankrupcy in 91(ish).
This is so stupid argument backed with absolutely none proof.
“Some technician tested some parts on some machine.”
You probably never even owned a KTM in first place.
@@TubedTalk The "some technician" was Matt Hudson, of "Dirty Garage Guy" UA-cam channel (who is both a biker AND an actual mechanical engineer). His presentation of the issue is his best guess, he didn't state it was a fact but the video he did was backed up with plausible facts (he acquired ADV_Charlie's 790 head IIRC to investigate the issue). I believe that the official announcement of the issue from KTM, such as it is, does indeed point to an oil supply issue, though according to them, not the cross-drilling issue as per Matt Hudson, but the head and cam follower design (not manufacture). Oil pressure (a general lack of, due to the LC8c design), has also been suggested by others... Even now, it doesn't seem the official KTM line on this is entirely accurate/full of the facts! :(
Having been challenged over my previous comment about the majority of KTM bikes being manufactured in the far east. I would like to add that the relevant information is actually present on the KTM website:
125, 250 and 390 motorcycles are manufactured in India.
790 machines are manufactured in China.
These are the machines which constitute the majority of KTM sales worldwide.
The trouble with KTM is that they've had poor quality control issues for years, plus a generally really obnoxious dealer network. The camshaft issue is just the latest in a long list of problems that many customers have experienced, and their usual arrogant response to it speaks volumes and has damaged the brand.
Brand loyalty against the odds has its limits, and we're now at those limits. Add to that an economic downturn, and things have gone in the wrong direction very quickly.
finally some measure, well done - most of the muppets out there shouting the sky is falling in have little idea of the damage the are causing, hundreds of thousands of people are invested in ktm, owners, families, suppliers, after market and so on - idiots i see everywhere saying words like 'good', 'serves them right' , i hope they sink' and so on are just poisoned wretches and need a life lesson - imagine wanting a brand like ktm to fail.....absurd... FTR I own 2, one i have had since 2016 and one since 2021 and both are amazing and have cost bugger all except consumables. GREAT BIKES, GREAT COMPANY, made some errors but what multi billion firm doesn't? They will be fine 🙂 and the idiots can all eat crow and humble pie for some time after
Agreed! Fewer motorcycles and motorcycle companies for us to purchase from, makes the scene a poorer one for all of us. Why would we wish for that!!?? (not to mention the many thousands of people who's jobs (and therefore families/dependants) depend upon the industry!!)
@@ogasi1798 I have a great deal of sympathy for all those people owed money by KTM, because they are not going together paid.
Very interesting and a wise man to listen to 👍🏻
Sad when any manufacturer goes under I bought a KTM fell for the year of the orange marketing I'm a very experienced Ryder I have bought over 30 bikes KTM was the worst Build quality time waiting for parts to arrive 6 months plus on a new bike also having to pay to unlock features is a downer I had already decided I will never buy a KTM again funnily enough I will consider a CF Moto but we'll see thanks for your video I do wish KTM all the best and hope that they learn from mistakes made.
That was really interesting, thank you very much. I’m hoping KTM can be strengthened, and continue to offer us their great bikes too 😀👍
your welcome, im glad the response in comments has been very constructive, exactly what i was hoping for. i seem to have attracted a very intelligent group of subscribers. ride safe.
I’m in the market for a 24 Husqvarna Vitpillen however, a little bit hesitant now wondering what the future of the 401s will be
I was also looking at a 401 but looking elsewhere now.
@@blacksheepspaniard3978 Made in India.
Regardless of the financial probity or otherwise of KTM the issue is perception. The public hear the word administration and then will not gamble on buying that companies products. If your a small sub contract supplier to KTM you put them on pro forma or risk your own company. If you're a buyer are you going to buy a bike and hope the company stays around to support it or buy a safer bet. Reputation in business is everything and KTM have by their own actions and inactions damaged theirs to the point where the public will not buy at the moment. KTM's 27% drop in sales won't be turned around quickly if ever.
And even in the best of years (2023), 100 million profit would take many lifetimes to clawback the nearly 3BILLION debt they now have no chance of servicing, let along paying off!!
there will always be someone ready to fill the gaps in the market, or be forced to innovate to win market share.
Sadly the market is fast shrinking, globally...!!
Just heard an estimate of what the price of the new 390 adventure will be when it goes on sale. It was £6700. I think thats too much. I would think around the £6000 mark would have been about right. I hope they dont shoot themselves in the foot by overpricing it. With their current difficulties, if they get this right, it could be a life saver for them.
@@thepub245 Its a European price for an Indian product.
@J.Harry.T I would imagine the design and tech are European. As far as Indian build quality goes it seems to be adequate. I had a 2018 390 Duke which was fine.
@ The quality of Chinese and Indian products is generally good and getting better all the time. However I don’t think all the KTM customers are prepared to pay premium European prices for those products. KTM are not alone in doing this, but they have been a bit greedy on the ‘mark-up’ and (it seems) some of their customers believe that the quality of the product is not as good as it used to be. It also seems to me that more than a few KTM (and Husqvarna) customers were happy to pay the high price only because they believed they had bought a European product. I think your 2018 bike probably was actually made in Europe.
@@J.Harry.T yes I agree with you..though my 18 duke was definately Indian assembled. I am not a fan of globalism. I wouldnt buy a chinese bike. I know its virtually impossible to buy anything not connected to china in some form but I draw the line where I can. Just dint like commies. 🤣
The debt figures being banded about range from very large to absolutely enormous. If true, this company must have been insolvent for years. I shall be curious to learn what assets they have. The majority of bikes are made by factories in the far east, which KTM does not own and which also manufacture for rival brands. My guess is that, other than some rented office space and the furniture inside it there will not be much for the creditors to squabble over.
This is absolutely not true. Majority of KTM production is in their factory in Austria.
Just a small percentage is done in China.
People just go out with silly, unconfirmed claims to easy. Specifically people that do not own KTM. For some reason, they are bashing on KTM more then KTm owners.
@ I have just re-checked via KTM website.. 125, 250 and 390 production is done in India. 790 production is in China. I understand these bikes constitute the majority of sales.
@@J.Harry.T True, but not the majority of the "profit"!! ;) (certainly not profit per unit, at least)
@mattmutane5502 My guess is that it was the absence of ‘profits’ that caused the shift to manufacturing in India and China.
Additionally: I understand that some of the other machines which are still ‘assembled’ in Austria use engines manufactured in China. Hence KTM AG has 70.000 engines in stock, in addition to 100.000 complete motorcycles.
I expect these will be shown as ‘assets’ on the balance sheet.
@@J.Harry.T Could be, BUT, to sell INTO China, and often to manufactuer, too, you need a Chinese "partner", so that was more likely the reason, I suspect :)
If you can believe the net, apparently Bajaj owns 48% of KTM-AG, should KTM's woes continue I believe Bajaj will eventually take control of KTM.
hi yes its hard to trust information from the net, its difficult to get accurate info on the share holders but from my research , the CEO of KTM owns 75% with the next largest being 5 %. im sure everything will come out in the end. the episode has certainly drawn out some good reasoned comment. interesting times ahead. ride safe
@@theartisanrider472 It's a VERY convoluted company structure, which is almost impossible to properly understand (good luck to the courts/administrators!! ;) ). But, simply, KTM AG is where most of the debt is, and where most of the "profit"/money making comes from too. Variously, Stefan Pierer, Bajaj and CFMoto own varying amounts of the various companies, but only Mr Pierer owns a controlling stake in all (any) of them!!
To mix metaphors KTM danced with the devil and it's come home to roost ...
yes, as i said in the episode, choose your partners carefully. ride safe
Interesting but I bet a Chinese company buys KTM out for a pittance.
CF moto own 49% of KTM
Might as well KTM uses Chinese manufacturing anyhow.
@@kepa504that's a bajaj you are thinking
@@deltabluesdavidraye For the 790 (ex 890), and 990, based bikes, yes. Bajaj make the 125 and 390 based bikes in India, Matighoffen (Austrian) factory makes everything else (the more "premium" stuff), plus does all the R&D there. The "everything else", is a LOT of bikes!! (and the ones with the largest profit margins, too!!) :)
KTM Are the making of there own demise . TOO MUCH UNFUNDABLE DEBT . All this "ADMINISTRATION BULL SHIT " is a smoke screen . Stop woffling they are finished. Management / Accountants 100% responsible as usual . This did not happen in months .
Agreed. KTM are the architects of their own demise!! However, not to defend KTM, but it actually (sort of) did happen in months. They had a record 2023, made almost 100 million in profit and by end of Q2 2024, were losing money through both lack of sales and arguably, dumb/ego driven spending/purchasing (MV Augusta comes to mind, and further back, GasGas) However, surely, any fool could have seen the impending crisis coming (post COVID markets normalisation, historically low interest rates regression to the mean, economies in trouble all over the world MOST discretional spending being slashed (just look at the bicycle market crashing harder than even the motorcycle market!!). Any business leveraged up to the eyeballs on cheap debt was always going to come unstuck, and you could see it coming!! I strongly suspect Mr (Herr) Pierer was to some degree massaging his ego and he won't survive whatever the outcome is! (and surely, the now (ex) board were partly at fault for going along with the dumb business decisions being made in the last couple of years!!). It's very sad and I hope KTM can continue to exist, they sure do make some fun bikes! :D