sell it asap! i fast charged two times on my leaf. it was a 2015. i lost two bars the last go. i got rid of it. got another. 28k and lost two bars never fast charged. I used trickle charge and level 2 at work. your comment on ice engines is spot-on. MANY engines like kia, BMW, chevrolet are all failing with 100k or less. Lexus es300h has metal bubbles causing issues. lifters in chevys....ice engines are garbage because of this emissions nonsense. Great video. Learned a lot.
Have 2020 M3 LR with 120k miles on the clock. 13% degradation as the previous owner did 700 AC cycles. Very little supercharging. I suspect he drove it hard or let the car sit at low SOC or high SOC for a long time. Else with 700 AC cycles I'd expect 5-8% degradation at most.
yea this stats are the normal ones, what actually degrades batteries is temperature, thats the main thing, so it is constantly getting better with software adjustments in the car and in the chargers. think about what your car is worth with a news battery, it is basically for free. all the value stays in the car directly. you get 3-4k for your old one and a new one is 12k, thats already dirt cheap and wil lgo down another 50% in the future for sure. getting a new battery will be a no brainer. repairing is not an option, not for mass models, just not worth it and the oild batteries are hgihly sought after.@@MrChakra108
I plan to just replace my battery (or have it repaired if that is an option). There are so few components overall that replacing the pack alone will be like getting a nearly new car for a fraction of the cost of buying newer used vehicles. In your example, to sell the car for 16K, then buy a replacement with low mileage would likely mean he'll be out more than 12K and have a car with an unknown history. I believe as cell chemistry changes and improves over the years, we'll be faced with an option with new packs eventually: more range or lighter pack
There's a bunch of places here in my state that rebuild them fairly cheap. Gruber Motors has repaired model S packs for customers in the $2,000-4,000 range, which is engine/transmission rebuild price territory.
Problem is that they only change the faulty modules, so 85% of the battery pack are still old batteries. So yes running fine again but the next years other modules may fail and you’re back to start
It's only partly a battery question; it's equally a question about the rest of the car. After 142,000 miles, is the car, with a replaced battery, worth $28,000? ($16,000 that he could get for the car as is, plus $12,000 battery replacement, minus anything he could get for the old battery). That's a question I'd be interested in hearing answers to...how do the other components hold up?
There needs to be more pack repair stations. There’s quite a common fault on the Model S where a PCB on the pack ingress moisture and blows a small component, this PCB can be changed or better still be repaired for a few bucks. The repair shop will say you need a new pack which is not true.
The big trouble with Tesla, is they don't want to sell parts (Like PCB control board inside battery) Tesla want to sell all battery pack, same with programming replacing component, Tesla do all to block those repair shop.... Still repair shop exist and can repair Tesla car but with used component they can find since Tesla don't want to sell new parts. It's why I bought another brand EV car to in hope not be stuck with locked car like Tesla do. I have little less range but I love it to have V2L while still Tesla until now did not provide too.
@@sergiomomesso1590 Ten years ago Tesla was at the forefront of BEV. I wouldn’t buy one today at any price. To me they are back in the stone age of what I’m buying. For instance No rear Wiper, No Rain Sensor, No Parking Sensors, No Real Adaptive Headlights, No Android Auto or Apple Car play, No Heads-up display and now No Indicator Stalks.
no it makes no sense, it is like an iphone, repair makes no sense because the product is so efficient even just trying to repair costs more money, time, effort, waste etc. this is what the "right to repair" weirods don't understand. replacing a battery is well worth it in a tesla, it is actually for free already, if you think about it. for 16k you get a totaled tesla, the prices are insanely high for used ones,if you put in a new battery it will cost you 8k if you deduct the value of the old one. this value stays in the car, it is not comparable to ice cars with a new motor which has poor value. a tesla with a new battery has extreme value. thats what people fear all the time, the battery dies. because they compare it to their phone. which is not comparable at all. the mentioned case is 1 case, normally an ev's lasts at least double the lifetime of an ice car. but a tesla is made for millions of miles, you replace the battery and got a new car.
@@garrycroft4215 What you talking about I call it options, some want them, some don't. As rear wiper, some say it's must be, some as me and long time ago is used to use side mirror. I rarely use rear wiper even when I had it 6 years in one of my car. 😄 In my case what is important is intelligent cruise and cost effective EV car for is reliability. 😁 Each people have his taste.
@@sergiomomesso1590 I’m paying £44k and want all the things I’ve mentioned above and a whole lot more for my hard earned. 3PH 22kW AC charging is another thing I want. Yes it still has dog mode and self parking that actually works although I will probably never use those last two features. Refrigerated drinks cooler I will use but not essential just nice to have.
My bet, based on my experience with my LEAF’s turnuring battery, is that a lot of high-amp starts (over 1/2 throttle from a dead-stop) will cause the BMS to think the pack is more degraded than it actually is. I suspect it’s because of the heat generated by the amperage being drawn, combined with the inevitable voltage sag as a compounding variable, causes the internal resistance of a handful of cells to spike; and that internal resistance is the main metric the BMS uses to determine battery health. It would seem that tesla uses a BMS that discards temporary spikes in cell resistance, given that the error went away.
It's maybe what I think happened with this guy with is now (Old model 3) .😄 Funny now to think about it those new car getting old too. This said, ambient temperature sag too have can have impact. And too a wire from sensor getting more and more loose or weak. Then maybe why his fault disappeared. This said, more than 80% remaining eve after like 240 000km with so many fast DC charging, wow. 👍
It's about number of cycles. And how long the car was in total at a very low and very high SOC (cumulative damage to the cells), the latter especially with higher ambient temperature. And the third factor is simply the cells itself, there are differences in them, manufacturing defects etc.
Interesting, I'd always expect the occasional computer 'error' as these things are relatively new and always being updated. I've had a Nissan not engage the motor because I've been too quick starting and gently rolled back when I expected to go forward. My error in that case and hopefully newer cars will have interlocks that stop it. The old instruction of 'turn it off wait a minute and turn it on again' is still worthwhile.
@thelectricviking Last year did a timing chain on my 2012 VW Passat 3.6. Love my car so I paid out the $6,600 to have it repaired. I had 120,000km at the time. Also did the A/C compressor $2,800.
Maybe the individual bad cells have eventualy blown the built in circuit fuse thus isolating the cells from the pack which will mean the pack can function normally.
I don't think Tesla use cell with fuse, even in my 2 electric bikes or in my electric tractor I don't use them, why? Because those cells cost more and they bring near nothing because in vehicle. What we use for protection is called BMS to protect those battery in batch (Parallel) and a normal fuse to protect all the pack. Because in vehicle compared to like vapoting or cell phone or even computer, only few cells in those items, then the fused cells in those case don't have great price impact compared to big cells pack.
Interesting video: we purchased our 2019 Model 3 new and put on over 131,000 miles. Warranty expired at 120k. In August 2023 we have a HV battery issue so it can’t fully charge and soon after it thinks it’s fully charged now…. So essentially it won’t charge. We took it to Tesla service and was quoted for a new battery for a little over $13, 000.00 USD. We are at this decision point….
The question no one can answer is if you can get a *brand new pack* for $13K or is it a rebuilt or repaired pack? For 13K new, I might take that chance.
Easy question to answer. I asked that same one in Tesla Prague about my model S and was told that it is a new pack. Always easy to ask ANY Tesla shop that same question by sending a simple email. Right?
My model S P85 is just over 108k miles and 11 years old (2012) with no noticeable degradation. I've always gotten about 250 miles at 100% charge and that's what I still get.
I love your channel I love knowing I don’t have to fact check what u say I come here because it’s honest no lies And u always make sense A fan from Austin Texas and I worked for tesla factory for almost a year making the brand new 4680 batteries
I wonder what it would cost to fit a newer type of more capable battery rather than the type it came with given that the mounts are said to be the same. For example replacing a rwd standard range pack with a new modle long range pack with both a longer range and working life.
If people view these as vehicles and not cell phones, longevity and low cost of long term ownership make the issue a non issue. For example, buying a gas car we don’t wonder how much it will cost to replace the engine and transmission. We just know eventually we will have to lose money on it and buy again.
Often battery reduced capacity can be just a single cell that cannot charge to 100%, that one cell limits the entire module to its maximum limit, there are many model S repairs for 1860 bad cell/s, all that is done is to clip the fusable link to remove the limited capacity cell from the pack & allowing the entire module to regain most of its capacity before the defective cell/s were electrically removed. So only technician time to remove the battery pack and find the defective cell/s, clip the fusable links and bring that deffective module to the same charge level as the balance of the modules, reinstall the battery pack and charge to 100% to reset the BMS.
Gruber motos does repairs on battery packs out of Arizona. They indicate that is often only one cell causes the failure and they bypass it. What would be nice is if you could get a upgraded battery pack with more range when you had to.
You should make a video of how much it costs to replace batteries of the most popular EVs. I red some place that a Skoda Enyaq battery change costs about 40 000$ and a Tesla S/X battery change about 10 000 - 12 000$ to change.
they dont wear out, they just loose some range, but just initially, the first 10 years, then they stay at that point very stable. if you drive for a million mile you can loose almost half the range and 70% of charging speed but it will still run fine. battery replacement will be dirt cheap, it is already for tesla's, it wil lget much cheaper in the future. batteriees are sought after, even dead ones, which are rare. just ask a body shop what happens if a totaled tesla's is parked in their lot. all kinds of people come and want it for all kind of parts, it's insane that they actually have to hide it to not waste time all day. there are videos of how batteries are recycled, like here: ua-cam.com/video/s2xrarUWVRQ/v-deo.htmlsi=MLBdrcXLEAkN1NOX @@TheBooban
With your Mitsubishi ICE car you could have refreshed that engine for about $3500 AUD. Rings, bearings, hone the cylinders and a valve grind at an independent workshop (not a dealer workshop) and you would have got another 200,000 km out of it before going the EV route.
We have an older Volkswagen Passat, that needed a Head job, Valves etc. You have to dismantle half the engine, to get at the Cylinder head. No mechanic would touch the job, because of how time consuming it was. Fortunately, we have an engineer / mechanic in the family, who spent a week doing it. But most Volkswagens are like this, so you have to scrap them, because they are too expensive to fix. What a nightmare...
@@Charlie-UK That's odd Charlie, I'm a former mechanic and the head comes off the VW range of engines without a great deal of trouble. It does take a bit of time, yes, and it's better to whip the whole engine out to work on. But in the end you have a refreshed car that has another 150000 kms or more life put back into it. Dealership workshops don't like doing rebuilds but there's plenty of other capable people around.
in a few years "black mass" will be worth 1/10th what it goes for today, because of dropping costs on battery tech. any investors, shareholders, better make sure what they're investing in has a good solid profitability model.
It is interesting to see how prices for replacement packs have changed over time. When the Model S was introduced, replacement "85 kWh" packs cost over $40k USD. Most failures were covered by warrantee, but damage from floods or accidents required insurance to pay. In 2021, Tesla was replacing out of warranty "85 kWh" packs for $24k. Still expensive, but a vast improvement. Now I see Model S owners getting new packs for $16k. For the Model 3, "80 kWh" replacement packs cost about $16k in 2011, and now are down to $12k. By the time my 2018 Model 3 is past its 8 year battery warranty replacement costs might be even lower. The option to replace the pack and drive the car for another 10-15 years is becoming more attractive.
I always thought that battery modules should be swap&play kind of thing, but Telsa decided to go with cheaper manufacturing on condition that batteries will outlast the car and that's what is actually happening with LFP batteries. Sadly, not sure it will with their 4680 batteries.
The EV manufacturers will keep the battery price fairly high. They don't want you to replace your battery cheaply and drive the car for another 10 - 15 years, they want to sell you a new EV.
@@PropanePete In 2012 it cost $45k to replace a Tesla Model S 85 kWh pack. In 2020 it cost $24k. Now it costs $16k. By the time my 2022 Model Y needs a new pack, probably 2032-2037, I expect it will be less.
@@georgepelton5645 Everyone is expecting the battery pricing will fall to 2 or $3000 but the sales & marketing people don't want you to drive your EV for 15 years or more. They want to sell you a new car every 5 years so the most likely outcome is batteries will remain pretty expensive. The other consideration is that the mining companies (Rio Tinto for example) are saying that the mining, transport and processing of lithium will not meet the expected pace of EV take-up. Anyway, we'll see how it all goes.
Ram 3500 diesel. Under warranty I had the exhaust cleaned out 3 times and replaced 2 times in less than 100,000 miles. There was a recall due to the DEF injection ports being in the wrong place and getting clogged, but they did not have a redesign nor parts when I decided to trade it in right before my warranty was up. I asked the dealer what it would cost out of warranty as this was happening on an annual basis where the truck would need to be flat bedded into the shop. Around $8k out of warranty. That was in 2016, so when I put that into an inflation calculator, it comes to just over $10k today. I use to have the paperwork but sent it off with the truck as I kept all the records in a binder organized for myself and the next owner.
WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF THE PINK FOAM LIKE MATERIAL AROUND THE BATTERY OTHER THAN TO MAKE A REPAIR MUCH MORE DIFFICULT . WITHOUT THE PINK FOAM IT WOULD BE EASIER AND CHEAPER TO GET AT AND REPAIR PLUS CUT DOWN LABOUR COST TO FIX .
It was actually a wrecked 2020 MG ZS dropped in the airport dump used for damaged and other vehicles abandoned on airport premises. Some smart Alec had pulled the battery apparently in an attempt to steal it but did not safe it up properly. The resultant fire burned three or four other vehicles parked alongside.
Wouldn’t it be nice if the battery management system could identify the cell that is weak or defective, sort of like a spreadsheet on the diagnostic menu on the infotainment screen and the individual cells could be replaced. That seems a better solution than scrapping a whole giant battery pack.
I suspect the pink material in the battery pack is heat conductive foam, which is also used on he back of many modern refrigerators to dissipate heat. The cooling coils are embedded in it and the foam is contained within a sheet metal skin which provides a larger surface area to dissipate the heat and also protects the coil.
Its okay to say it depends how you drive, the temperature, fast charging e.t.c. So just how are you supposed to ? just hope you get an E.V that wont burst into flames every time you fast charge?
That’s why you buy a NIO and rent the battery, there’s no battery degradation and you have a fresh fully charged battery. When the car is five years old you get good money for it. If you sell a five-year-old Tesla 70% of your value is gone.
For sure, because of you don’t have a basement to but that battery in as storage, I’m sure someone with $10000 in their pocket will happily buy your used pack with at least 30 usable kWh left, instead of a Powerwall 3 with what, 13 kWh? That one is definitely a DUH!
When my battery dies I will most likely put in a new one an keep on going. Seems like the cheapest option and I love the car and don't want to give it up. $12k is really not much money if I can get another 150k+ miles out of it.
Yes, in the worst case scenario take out a mortgage and finance the cost of the new battery pack. It's doable. It's like getting a new car for a fraction of the price.
The best option would be to get replace cell that is about the same as the rest. New battery can cause problems to other batteries, because the balance is off…
@@haukikannelThat absolutely makes no sense. You're replacing an entire battery pack so all the batteries are new and are the same. If you're replacing individual battery cells, then I can see your point that it could cause problems to other cells in the same battery pack.
If you own a Tesla, you should have good enough credit for a low interest loan from the bank for $12g. Then the monthly cost over the next 150 000 miles becomes almost laughable with inflation. Do the math, I’ll wait.
My thought is that I cannot see any reason batteries cannot be designed to be able to be replaced, or even individual cells can be replaced. Also, why cannot data from each cell be monitored by the car itself? It makes no sense to scrap an entire battery if only one or a few cells go bad.
Insurance companies are always looking for a new revenue stream. Why have they not started selling extended warranties on out-of-warranty batteries? Better still, this could be a warranty stream for the manufacturers themselves, as who better knows than them what the reliability profile is and they can get the components at their normal OEM cost. Maybe a video about this insurance option, Sam?
The warning message was likely a fluke, I've seen this with "service visual assistance system" and "Service transmission" error messages a LOT, scary message shows up 1 time or a few times, nothing happens and then never comes back, or keeps coming back without reason.
Isn t it possible to go arround the bad cells with some kind off backup up workarround connections or is this to difficult. Or is this a stupid idea ??
Thanks for all this information. I assume if the vehicle is still in pretty good shape and everything else works fine, getting a new battery would be the best option for me and not trying to go for a newer vehicle. It is kind of a judgement call should the battery go bad in the vehicle. Or if we can find a 3rd party that can do the battery repairs cheaper than Tesla pricings. What is the warranty if we do get a new battery from Tesla??? Does our Auto Insurance help pay for some of the costs??? Things to ask when the time comes. I just got my new 2023 model Y LR Aug 2023 so it will be a while before I reach that time to be thinking about my battery status. Take care.
you loosen the bolts remove the battery, put the new one in and fasten the bolts again, done in 20 minutes. dirt cheap, high value. but who wants a new battery? the car is perfectly fine, no issues. it will work for another 200k miles easily, and more. if oyu mean cell replacing, no , thats just stupid, thats like rpeairing an iphone, not worht it. the product is way to efficient to even try. it will cost more money, time, hassel, pollution, etc. just get a new one. it is basicalyl free since the entire value stays in the car. for 16k you get a totaled tesla at best, if at all. a tesla with a new battery doubles that instantly, it is actually a gain in value and not an expense in the first place to replace the pack. but not needed it runs fine, no problems.
Lithium batteries also expire with age. My low kilometre (180,000 klm) muscle car is 47 years old & still runs fine, with 87% of it's original compression. Original engine never been rebuild. What are the odds of an EV battery lasting 47 years with 87% battery capacity?
Yea I agree with the other post. Its nice to hear, but there is a reason why there not that many older cars in the streets. They burn out and ran till they die. Also, to play fair, I think there is a bit of a miss wording - the battery doesnt just stop working - it just doesnt hold as much charge over the next 15 years or so. Hopefully they can figure out how to improve that. Mainly what really kills them is build up / thermal run away follow by over heating them (like fast charging them).
@@ZeusBullyMax In the old car's, it was usually body rust that killed the car's. However my car has been in the family 47 years, has always been garaged & serviced adequately.
Yep, great analytical and rebuilt guys in the EV space exist, Gruber motors are one set of guys to talk to - in the USA, for battery cell - testing, extraction, matching and replacement. If that $12k replacement is a genuine offer, it is likely only ob an exchange basis direct to Tesla. Wreck the car for parts - there should be a whole lot more than $16k in spare parts for the smash repair and used EV cell- modules / electro-mechanical repair sector... *the car is as good as done" - on a mileage basis.
car worth 16k: add 12k will it then be worth 28k? option: sell the car add 26 up to 39k and have a new car. the repair seems ok too if other things don’t start to fail as well
I think there should be an old battery deposit. Manufacturers should give 10,000 dollar deposit on my old battery. For repair, recycling, stationary storage......81 percent is still good for someone. Even as a lower range expected car..
I think ev cars will have prices reflecting the actual range at the used status. 10 yrs old 150 miles range. Lower expected price for lower range, available
My hunch on fast charging, is that it DOES NOT degrade the battery faster. However it probably increases the incidences of a failure. I would 100% sell that car. You dont know what you will get with a refurb battery.
The solution for premature battery failure is insurance. And manufacturers should built in programmable fuses to isolate faulty cells, it is better to have 80% capacity than zero.
Too long to explain, but the way those battery pack is built, they can't do it. if they do it, will cost way more since will be needed to add so many components. This said, normally, battery pack must going down all together as they getting old, but failure can happen and look like it's maybe the case in this and the battery pack do it's job, warning the driver before it's too late.
nope, it actually has all that and way way more than that already. every single cell is babysitted all the time, this was user error and it's just one case anyway. the battery is not dead anyway, has high value and still operates fine. the car did already the normal lifetime of an ice car. ev's last at least double that of ice in the worst case. a battery replacement is always worth it and for free since the value of the new battery which costs 8-9k stqays in the car, not comparable to a new engine in an ice vehicle. i dont see any issues@@sergiomomesso1590
@@sergiomomesso1590 It all depends on the pack is designed. I saw tear downs of both the Tesla and BYD packs, they are not designed to be repaired. The Atto3 pack is very well designed with individual BMS channels per cell, and the Tesla pack is less sophisticated but does allow for reduced capacity without lower operating voltage. Redundancy can be designed in but cost would go up. Batteries are inherently being balanced if installed in parallel but unbalanced cells can occur and will lower cycle life. The high number of cells in the Tesla packs will have a higher probability of a faulty cell. I think Elon Musk had come around to the idea of using Prismatic cells because of the higher packing density and lower manufacturing cost. I heard the 4860 cells are not happening.
the batter wont have the capacity it is used to, thats it. dont give to much to this 1 case which is still respectable lifetime, actually the lifetime milage of an ice car. a new one is very cheap already and it will get cheaper in the future. it is a nobrainer already, but there is no need to replace it, it is fine, 20% less range and slower charging is not an issue for 99% of people anyway. i mean i charge my tesla once a week with the sun, i spend like 10 seconds to plug and unplug. if you have a new battery in a tesla the value of that is insane it stays in the car like 100% and degrades very slowly like a new car again. it is not wasted money like replacing an engine in an ice vehicle which has close to 0 value added. but a tesla with a new battery has double in value instantly, and the cars are made for millions of km, it's a no brainer
My ID3 has your "suspect" LG Chem batteries. In two and a half years I would estimate that it has lost no more than 5%. Actually, possibly less (~12 miles). In that time I've rapid charged it 4 times, but never low to maximum. The rest has been Type 2 charging at work around 11.5kW, and invariably I take it to 100% because I may do a trip at the weekend. Either way, it lasts me all week, even in winter because I'm not out and about so much then. I think it may last donkey's years, though I'm going after a smaller car next. The ID3 is actually unnecessarily big, including range, for my needs. Something like an E-UP! or similar would do the job perfectly well. The only thing dissuading me from a used 30kWh Leaf is the passive BMS.
yes there is, aks body shops why they hide totaled teslas in their lot, because people come in and want parts all day, it's insane actually. people use the batteries for everything, home, their car, their vaporizer, etc. andcompanys want them as well, no problem at all to find a use case.
If the EV battery just degrades you can still use the car and just charge it more often. If your gas car develops a bad problem your range is zero until you fix it.
If you’re the owner of a BMW 328i, then you know that your car is a workhorse. With its peppy engine and sporty handling, the 328i can handle just about anything you put it through. But what happens when your engine finally gives out? Replacing the engine on a BMW 328i can be costly. In short, The labor cost is between $2,900 and $4000, while the engine will cost you around $8,563 and $8,692. So, all in all, you’re looking at a bill of over $11,000 to $20,000. The difference in the cost depends on the engine you get and where you do the replacement. 🇨🇦
Designing serviceability into battery pack designs would be beneficial to longer term value retention in EV's. Aftermarket battery pack industries would develop to bring down prices overall and would improve older vehicle performance as better batteries become availably.. Unfortunately this long term value building comes at the cost of more profitable new vehicle sales and as such there exists little incentives for manufactures to make the battery packs easily serviceable and/or modable.. Despite short term diminishment in profit there exists ais a strong Market for product brands associated with enduring practical value and some manufactures will embrace this by establishing a strong relationship with the post sale EV market along with the gear head type people who that inhabit that eco system.
Not that the Chevy Bolt battery pack is super-serviceable, but it’s definitely not complicated and requires only 42 bolts or something to remove, and drops right off of the bottom of the car after draining the coolant from the cooling system. It’s pretty heavy so requires the shop to have appropriate equipment to do the swap, but quite honestly I could very much see many shops being able to replace the entire thing with little problems. There’s a really good video on UA-cam by Weber State University that details the entire process. My Bolt battery was replaced by GM earlier this year so thankfully I’m covered for another 8 years.
tesla should just do 650,000km battery warranties, if the problem isn't widespread. In fact, to boost confidence, they should replace all batteries for free that have done less than 650,000km, even if they weren't given that warranty when bought. Make it 700,000km
We aren't at the point where have data whether all these Teslas start dying en masse after 10 years. I'm considering buying 2018M3LR for $29k, or new, or skipping EVs entirely until the Chinese EVs arrive.
How many people drive more than 10,000 km per year? I'm talking urban dwellers. Not many I suspect. The mean average daily commute in Aust. is around 16km apparently. That's 5,840 km per year. That means a battery life of up to 27 years depending on use. Even lasting 15 years would seem reasonable. In 10 years time, the fast charging EV network will be widely distributed, making battery range even less critical. Thus further extending the practical useful life of worn down batteries.
Sounds like the BMS sorted out the problem cells automatically. When cells go bad in a module it usually means the cells have discharged too far, and dropped below a certain voltage threshold, and the BMS rejects those bad cells and therefore the whole module is cactus. Refurbishing these modules often means just individually recharging the problem cells, not even replacing them, and once that's done, the BMS is happy again and things work as normal. In this case, the BMS must be capable of individually forcing the charging on individual cells that have gone under voltage, therefore bringing those cells back into service.
1) My last two BMW's did about 120k miles, costing a fortune in spare parts, sensors etc to get there before the engines failed and the cars became uneconomic to repair. The problem is not the ICE engine, its the fact cars aren't designed to be repaired, even head gaskets can't be replaced and engines can't easily be worked on. 2) $12k for a new battery with the old battery worth $6k in scrap makes swapping a battery good value at 150k miles. I'd probably have the wheel bearings and suspension checked as well, then the car is as good as new. 3) We have a big problem with catalytic converted theft in the UK, partly because we don't have a functioning police force any more, but will battery theft be a thing soon if all the average caravan owner needs is an electric screwdriver to remove them?
Wise man. Companies are starting to show up that a doing the 2nd use/life things on EV batteries. One used bus batteries because there was a steady supply. Tie this in with buying a replacement battery would be a win.
Exactly my thoughts! We've got the same issue with DPFs removed in Ireland. 😢 Diesel particulates are the most nasty stuff on the planet. It's a shame this hasn't been banned yet in the EU.
All teslas should have free battery replacement on all vehicles. ( he should do this to his benefit then the customer. By keeping and recycling it keeps cost down but the true benifit is it keeps customers longer and eliminates ev fear) He should also offer intrest free financing on all teslas especially during our resesion/fed rampage. If you get everyone on board with your company when the competition is still trying to reconfigure and recoup a ressetion you win. Your customers should not worry about batteries and just injoy being a tesla customer.
It depends: This Driver did a lot of miles in a short period of time. So the shell of the car is still pretty new. If you do average mileage a year, a replacement makes no sense.
I can’t wait till there are non Tesla service centers that will replace or fix battery packs. There may even be upgraded pacs in the future that are lighter, charge faster, or even get more range.
My guess would be that Tesla got notified over the air that the battery pack had a fault and they told the car to ignore that cell due to the 81% battery rating
Just add a generator on one axle and it would charge itself when the wheels turn giving you unlimited mileage ships trucks planes everything could have unlimited power and mileage
Lucky break for the guy but it does raise a few key points. Should manufacturers be taking more responsibility for their product's lifecycle? A company like Tesla should be regulated to have a reconditioning service which replaces the underperforming cells of existing batteries or repurposes those batteries for other applications like home electrical storage. The naysayers don't seem to get that an underperforming car battery is a perfectly fine home battery.
That’s the problem they are worth nothing second hand, then your up for the battery 16 with labour, then the a/c goes, etc . Manly the doors drop hinges wear etc from opening closing, window mechanisms wear, so you get more wind noise rattles etc . Better off parting it out you’ll get more money back in parts once the battery is toast eg sell the motor body panels , computer etc
I always made an argument that the replacement battery in the future will be cheaper to replace. Maybe the current cars, like my model 3 can get some future magical battery. Who knows what will happen.
I have the model 3 2020, my battery died at 116,000 miles. In 3 days. Is out of warranty and replace the battery is $13,200 The battery to they will put in the car is refurbished, there are not new batteries. Warranty 40,000 miles or 4 years.
When people say the car is worthless and will be dragged to the scrap heap, they don’t literally mean it’s worthless. What they mean is the wreckers will only offer them $500 for the car. Sure the wreckers will turn that car into several thousand in parts but your average person isn’t scrapping their old car in their front yard to sell parts. The car is effectively worthless the moment that battery dies. To the owner.
That warranty determines the price of the used Tesla. This is no different than many things sold that have a ticking timebomb. So on my 2022 Model Y Long range the battery warranty is 8 years or just 100,000 miles (whichever comes first) with a 70% minimum retention charge rate. After that, car buyers are going to want $12,000 off the price since the battery is out of warranty. This is no different than the other warranties on the car. 1) Vehicle warranty: 4 years or 50,000 miles and then the buyer is responsible for the cost of fixing the car 2) Battery and drive unit warranty: 8 years or 100,000 miles and the buyer looks at $12,000 to replace the battery 3) Supplemental Restraint System Limited Warranty: This warranty covers the vehicle's supplemental restraint system, including airbags and seatbelt-related components. It is valid for 5 years or 60,000 miles That 12,000 cost is going to be taken out of the used car price.
first thought that springs to mind is 'the media paid him to put out a hit piece'. oh look, now its working with no error on the screen! convenient that.
It begs the question why wouldn't Tesla themselves buy it from the customer at a reasonable price or discount against a fresh replacement? Surely they more than anyone else could repair, recycle or simply grind to black mass, more effectively than anyone else? Or am I crazy?
$12k is not cheap to most people, however I will compare it to replacing the exhaust pipe on my my pickup which would have been $8k in 2016. With taking inflation in consideration it would be over $10k today. So when people argue that EV batteries are an issue compared to ICE vehicles I give them this as an example.
Not doubting your claim, but honestly wondering why it would be so expensive for an exhaust system? What type of vehicle? That price sounds off the charts!
I think that the manufacturer should replace your pack for much less: the replacement does not have to be new, it could be ‘refurbished’, and should be a breeze to replace: plug and play. Like a well designed smartphone.
sell it asap! i fast charged two times on my leaf. it was a 2015. i lost two bars the last go. i got rid of it. got another. 28k and lost two bars never fast charged. I used trickle charge and level 2 at work. your comment on ice engines is spot-on. MANY engines like kia, BMW, chevrolet are all failing with 100k or less. Lexus es300h has metal bubbles causing issues. lifters in chevys....ice engines are garbage because of this emissions nonsense. Great video. Learned a lot.
Have 240000 miles on my 2020 M3, still going strong with about 85% of capacity available
Have 2020 M3 LR with 120k miles on the clock. 13% degradation as the previous owner did 700 AC cycles. Very little supercharging. I suspect he drove it hard or let the car sit at low SOC or high SOC for a long time.
Else with 700 AC cycles I'd expect 5-8% degradation at most.
yea this stats are the normal ones, what actually degrades batteries is temperature, thats the main thing, so it is constantly getting better with software adjustments in the car and in the chargers.
think about what your car is worth with a news battery, it is basically for free. all the value stays in the car directly.
you get 3-4k for your old one and a new one is 12k, thats already dirt cheap and wil lgo down another 50% in the future for sure.
getting a new battery will be a no brainer. repairing is not an option, not for mass models, just not worth it and the oild batteries are hgihly sought after.@@MrChakra108
Do you have a Long Range ?
I plan to just replace my battery (or have it repaired if that is an option). There are so few components overall that replacing the pack alone will be like getting a nearly new car for a fraction of the cost of buying newer used vehicles. In your example, to sell the car for 16K, then buy a replacement with low mileage would likely mean he'll be out more than 12K and have a car with an unknown history.
I believe as cell chemistry changes and improves over the years, we'll be faced with an option with new packs eventually: more range or lighter pack
@Tron-Jockey The structural packs that are coming in all new Teslas are not repairable.
There's a bunch of places here in my state that rebuild them fairly cheap. Gruber Motors has repaired model S packs for customers in the $2,000-4,000 range, which is engine/transmission rebuild price territory.
Problem is that they only change the faulty modules, so 85% of the battery pack are still old batteries. So yes running fine again but the next years other modules may fail and you’re back to start
however you need to ship the car back and forth. That would cost another 2k
Good research, Sam. There is always a way. I would keep on driving it. If it dies completely, you still may swap or repair it.
It's only partly a battery question; it's equally a question about the rest of the car. After 142,000 miles, is the car, with a replaced battery, worth $28,000? ($16,000 that he could get for the car as is, plus $12,000 battery replacement, minus anything he could get for the old battery). That's a question I'd be interested in hearing answers to...how do the other components hold up?
There needs to be more pack repair stations. There’s quite a common fault on the Model S where a PCB on the pack ingress moisture and blows a small component, this PCB can be changed or better still be repaired for a few bucks. The repair shop will say you need a new pack which is not true.
The big trouble with Tesla, is they don't want to sell parts (Like PCB control board inside battery) Tesla want to sell all battery pack, same with programming replacing component, Tesla do all to block those repair shop.... Still repair shop exist and can repair Tesla car but with used component they can find since Tesla don't want to sell new parts. It's why I bought another brand EV car to in hope not be stuck with locked car like Tesla do. I have little less range but I love it to have V2L while still Tesla until now did not provide too.
@@sergiomomesso1590 Ten years ago Tesla was at the forefront of BEV. I wouldn’t buy one today at any price. To me they are back in the stone age of what I’m buying. For instance No rear Wiper, No Rain Sensor, No Parking Sensors, No Real Adaptive Headlights, No Android Auto or Apple Car play, No Heads-up display and now No Indicator Stalks.
no it makes no sense, it is like an iphone, repair makes no sense because the product is so efficient even just trying to repair costs more money, time, effort, waste etc. this is what the "right to repair" weirods don't understand.
replacing a battery is well worth it in a tesla, it is actually for free already, if you think about it.
for 16k you get a totaled tesla, the prices are insanely high for used ones,if you put in a new battery it will cost you 8k if you deduct the value of the old one. this value stays in the car, it is not comparable to ice cars with a new motor which has poor value.
a tesla with a new battery has extreme value. thats what people fear all the time, the battery dies. because they compare it to their phone.
which is not comparable at all.
the mentioned case is 1 case, normally an ev's lasts at least double the lifetime of an ice car.
but a tesla is made for millions of miles, you replace the battery and got a new car.
@@garrycroft4215 What you talking about I call it options, some want them, some don't. As rear wiper, some say it's must be, some as me and long time ago is used to use side mirror. I rarely use rear wiper even when I had it 6 years in one of my car. 😄 In my case what is important is intelligent cruise and cost effective EV car for is reliability. 😁 Each people have his taste.
@@sergiomomesso1590 I’m paying £44k and want all the things I’ve mentioned above and a whole lot more for my hard earned. 3PH 22kW AC charging is another thing I want. Yes it still has dog mode and self parking that actually works although I will probably never use those last two features. Refrigerated drinks cooler I will use but not essential just nice to have.
My bet, based on my experience with my LEAF’s turnuring battery, is that a lot of high-amp starts (over 1/2 throttle from a dead-stop) will cause the BMS to think the pack is more degraded than it actually is. I suspect it’s because of the heat generated by the amperage being drawn, combined with the inevitable voltage sag as a compounding variable, causes the internal resistance of a handful of cells to spike; and that internal resistance is the main metric the BMS uses to determine battery health. It would seem that tesla uses a BMS that discards temporary spikes in cell resistance, given that the error went away.
It's maybe what I think happened with this guy with is now (Old model 3) .😄 Funny now to think about it those new car getting old too. This said, ambient temperature sag too have can have impact. And too a wire from sensor getting more and more loose or weak. Then maybe why his fault disappeared. This said, more than 80% remaining eve after like 240 000km with so many fast DC charging, wow. 👍
It's not the fast charging. I had my first Model S for 7 years and SuperCharged it 90% of the time. After 7 years, the battery only degraded about 2%.
But did you supercharge to 100% or to 80%?
It's about number of cycles. And how long the car was in total at a very low and very high SOC (cumulative damage to the cells), the latter especially with higher ambient temperature.
And the third factor is simply the cells itself, there are differences in them, manufacturing defects etc.
How many miles had your car ?
@gnagyusa You conveniently forgot to include the number of miles on the car.
This guy didn’t own a Tesla. P H A T thumbs down👎
Interesting, I'd always expect the occasional computer 'error' as these things are relatively new and always being updated. I've had a Nissan not engage the motor because I've been too quick starting and gently rolled back when I expected to go forward. My error in that case and hopefully newer cars will have interlocks that stop it. The old instruction of 'turn it off wait a minute and turn it on again' is still worthwhile.
@thelectricviking
Last year did a timing chain on my 2012 VW Passat 3.6. Love my car so I paid out the $6,600 to have it repaired. I had 120,000km at the time. Also did the A/C compressor $2,800.
Maybe the individual bad cells have eventualy blown the built in circuit fuse thus isolating the cells from the pack which will mean the pack can function normally.
this is it
I don't think Tesla use cell with fuse, even in my 2 electric bikes or in my electric tractor I don't use them, why? Because those cells cost more and they bring near nothing because in vehicle. What we use for protection is called BMS to protect those battery in batch (Parallel) and a normal fuse to protect all the pack. Because in vehicle compared to like vapoting or cell phone or even computer, only few cells in those items, then the fused cells in those case don't have great price impact compared to big cells pack.
Datas are interresting...but...on screen they whill be better !!
ever, very good videos !!!
And for the question...i try to repare !!!
Interesting video: we purchased our 2019 Model 3 new and put on over 131,000 miles. Warranty expired at 120k. In August 2023 we have a HV battery issue so it can’t fully charge and soon after it thinks it’s fully charged now…. So essentially it won’t charge. We took it to Tesla service and was quoted for a new battery for a little over $13, 000.00 USD. We are at this decision point….
The question no one can answer is if you can get a *brand new pack* for $13K or is it a rebuilt or repaired pack? For 13K new, I might take that chance.
Easy question to answer. I asked that same one in Tesla Prague about my model S and was told that it is a new pack. Always easy to ask ANY Tesla shop that same question by sending a simple email. Right?
Am considering buying a 5 year old used Tesla for $29k means a possible $15-20k replacement in 3-4yrs? I'm very hesitant between that and buying new.
My model S P85 is just over 108k miles and 11 years old (2012) with no noticeable degradation. I've always gotten about 250 miles at 100% charge and that's what I still get.
Well, the question would be, do you charge with a 240V at home? What's the frequency of Supercharger use?
Replace the one in the car. Take the old one and strap it to a wall in your house, hook it up to all the necessary D/A converters, inverters, etc.
I love your channel I love knowing I don’t have to fact check what u say I come here because it’s honest no lies And u always make sense
A fan from Austin Texas and I worked for tesla factory for almost a year making the brand new 4680 batteries
I wonder what it would cost to fit a newer type of more capable battery rather than the type it came with given that the mounts are said to be the same. For example replacing a rwd standard range pack with a new modle long range pack with both a longer range and working life.
Doesn't work. The BMS won't be compatible.
If people view these as vehicles and not cell phones, longevity and low cost of long term ownership make the issue a non issue.
For example, buying a gas car we don’t wonder how much it will cost to replace the engine and transmission.
We just know eventually we will have to lose money on it and buy again.
@@MrChakra108Why wouldn't it be? They just need to update the software.
I would wonder if Tesla had updated the battery management software since the original report.
all the time
Often battery reduced capacity can be just a single cell that cannot charge to 100%, that one cell limits the entire module to its maximum limit, there are many model S repairs for 1860 bad cell/s, all that is done is to clip the fusable link to remove the limited capacity cell from the pack & allowing the entire module to regain most of its capacity before the defective cell/s were electrically removed. So only technician time to remove the battery pack and find the defective cell/s, clip the fusable links and bring that deffective module to the same charge level as the balance of the modules, reinstall the battery pack and charge to 100% to reset the BMS.
Gruber motos does repairs on battery packs out of Arizona. They indicate that is often only one cell causes the failure and they bypass it.
What would be nice is if you could get a upgraded battery pack with more range when you had to.
You should make a video of how much it costs to replace batteries of the most popular EVs. I red some place that a Skoda Enyaq battery change costs about 40 000$ and a Tesla S/X battery change about 10 000 - 12 000$ to change.
I've always wondered what happens when the battery wears out.
they dont wear out, they just loose some range, but just initially, the first 10 years, then they stay at that point very stable. if you drive for a million mile you can loose almost half the range and 70% of charging speed but it will still run fine. battery replacement will be dirt cheap, it is already for tesla's, it wil lget much cheaper in the future.
batteriees are sought after, even dead ones, which are rare. just ask a body shop what happens if a totaled tesla's is parked in their lot.
all kinds of people come and want it for all kind of parts, it's insane that they actually have to hide it to not waste time all day.
there are videos of how batteries are recycled, like here: ua-cam.com/video/s2xrarUWVRQ/v-deo.htmlsi=MLBdrcXLEAkN1NOX @@TheBooban
He won't do that cuz there will be Nio and swap supporters in the comments, it's against his Tesla narratives
@@protagonist9716 I thought maybe Tesla were one of the cheaper ones to change, so wouldnt it fit his narrative perfectly?
With your Mitsubishi ICE car you could have refreshed that engine for about $3500 AUD. Rings, bearings, hone the cylinders and a valve grind at an independent workshop (not a dealer workshop) and you would have got another 200,000 km out of it before going the EV route.
We have an older Volkswagen Passat, that needed a Head job, Valves etc. You have to dismantle half the engine, to get at the Cylinder head. No mechanic would touch the job, because of how time consuming it was. Fortunately, we have an engineer / mechanic in the family, who spent a week doing it. But most Volkswagens are like this, so you have to scrap them, because they are too expensive to fix. What a nightmare...
@@Charlie-UK That's odd Charlie, I'm a former mechanic and the head comes off the VW range of engines without a great deal of trouble. It does take a bit of time, yes, and it's better to whip the whole engine out to work on. But in the end you have a refreshed car that has another 150000 kms or more life put back into it. Dealership workshops don't like doing rebuilds but there's plenty of other capable people around.
@@Charlie-UK Thats some good We had a VW polo they said 180.000 km max life for the engime its now near the 500.000 My amarok is near 400.000 km.
I love your videos on battery technology! Thank you. ❤❤❤
Can I install a long range battery into a midrange model 3. Like could I upgrade the range to 310 from 233 miles of range!
in a few years "black mass" will be worth 1/10th what it goes for today, because of dropping costs on battery tech.
any investors, shareholders, better make sure what they're investing in has a good solid profitability model.
Thanks for the videos mate.
Never met a viking called Sam or Evans before.
It is interesting to see how prices for replacement packs have changed over time. When the Model S was introduced, replacement "85 kWh" packs cost over $40k USD. Most failures were covered by warrantee, but damage from floods or accidents required insurance to pay. In 2021, Tesla was replacing out of warranty "85 kWh" packs for $24k. Still expensive, but a vast improvement. Now I see Model S owners getting new packs for $16k.
For the Model 3, "80 kWh" replacement packs cost about $16k in 2011, and now are down to $12k. By the time my 2018 Model 3 is past its 8 year battery warranty replacement costs might be even lower. The option to replace the pack and drive the car for another 10-15 years is becoming more attractive.
I always thought that battery modules should be swap&play kind of thing, but Telsa decided to go with cheaper manufacturing on condition that batteries will outlast the car and that's what is actually happening with LFP batteries. Sadly, not sure it will with their 4680 batteries.
The EV manufacturers will keep the battery price fairly high. They don't want you to replace your battery cheaply and drive the car for another 10 - 15 years, they want to sell you a new EV.
@@PropanePete In 2012 it cost $45k to replace a Tesla Model S 85 kWh pack. In 2020 it cost $24k. Now it costs $16k.
By the time my 2022 Model Y needs a new pack, probably 2032-2037, I expect it will be less.
@@georgepelton5645 Everyone is expecting the battery pricing will fall to 2 or $3000 but the sales & marketing people don't want you to drive your EV for 15 years or more. They want to sell you a new car every 5 years so the most likely outcome is batteries will remain pretty expensive. The other consideration is that the mining companies (Rio Tinto for example) are saying that the mining, transport and processing of lithium will not meet the expected pace of EV take-up. Anyway, we'll see how it all goes.
@@Giedrius00 Modules can be replaced, all the warranty Battery Packs consist of old parts/modules of battery packs
Ram 3500 diesel. Under warranty I had the exhaust cleaned out 3 times and replaced 2 times in less than 100,000 miles. There was a recall due to the DEF injection ports being in the wrong place and getting clogged, but they did not have a redesign nor parts when I decided to trade it in right before my warranty was up. I asked the dealer what it would cost out of warranty as this was happening on an annual basis where the truck would need to be flat bedded into the shop. Around $8k out of warranty. That was in 2016, so when I put that into an inflation calculator, it comes to just over $10k today. I use to have the paperwork but sent it off with the truck as I kept all the records in a binder organized for myself and the next owner.
WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF THE PINK FOAM LIKE MATERIAL AROUND THE BATTERY OTHER THAN TO MAKE A REPAIR MUCH MORE DIFFICULT . WITHOUT THE PINK FOAM IT WOULD BE EASIER AND CHEAPER TO GET AT AND REPAIR PLUS CUT DOWN LABOUR COST TO FIX .
One day crooks will be stealing battery packs instead of catalytic converters
Please look into the current state of battery recycling in Australia. It would be a great show. Thanks
If you buy a replacement battery pack from Tesla, are you saying their price doesn't require you to pay a core charge or let them keep the old pack?
Thanks for the information, no worries here. But why are you showing Highland renderings all the time on a run down Model 3?
It can be more expensive if you swap the battery yourself on the parkinglot of a major Australian airport
😂
😂
And then leave it outside exposed to the elements for a few days.
It was actually a wrecked 2020 MG ZS dropped in the airport dump used for damaged and other vehicles abandoned on airport premises.
Some smart Alec had pulled the battery apparently in an attempt to steal it but did not safe it up properly. The resultant fire burned three or four other vehicles parked alongside.
@jimgraham6722 what's your source. Or did you hear that on social media?
Wouldn’t it be nice if the battery management system could identify the cell that is weak or defective, sort of like a spreadsheet on the diagnostic menu on the infotainment screen and the individual cells could be replaced. That seems a better solution than scrapping a whole giant battery pack.
They actually do this - Gruber Motors - ua-cam.com/video/F-B_8oMZNeI/v-deo.html
Software does exist, but the module currently should not be 'opened up' that contains the bad battery cell. So replace the module.
I suspect the pink material in the battery pack is heat conductive foam, which is also used on he back of many modern refrigerators to dissipate heat. The cooling coils are embedded in it and the foam is contained within a sheet metal skin which provides a larger surface area to dissipate the heat and also protects the coil.
Holy Christ Sam that was a lot of going around the houses to get back to the start, But hey I'm a fan 😊
Did the battery get out of balance and needed some slow charging to let it settle down?
Spot on Sam
Its okay to say it depends how you drive, the temperature, fast charging e.t.c. So just how are you supposed to ? just hope you get an E.V that wont burst into flames every time you fast charge?
Can you replace an older ternary battery with an LFP battery? Cost?
If someone have fear about the battery in his BEV than sell a Nio with battery swap.
While it might be hard to replace a single cell, you could replace a module much easier for less than $12K.
love this content
That’s why you buy a NIO and rent the battery, there’s no battery degradation and you have a fresh fully charged battery. When the car is five years old you get good money for it. If you sell a five-year-old Tesla 70% of your value is gone.
Jeep EV conversion (with swapable upgradable battery pack) would be nice for winter driving
Wouldn’t Tesla replace it under warranty since the battery has less than 8 years ?
One more point for EV, you can sale your old batteries or reuse them for energy storage; however, with old engines no value.
For sure, because of you don’t have a basement to but that battery in as storage, I’m sure someone with $10000 in their pocket will happily buy your used pack with at least 30 usable kWh left, instead of a Powerwall 3 with what, 13 kWh?
That one is definitely a DUH!
Cheers Sam
When my battery dies I will most likely put in a new one an keep on going. Seems like the cheapest option and I love the car and don't want to give it up. $12k is really not much money if I can get another 150k+ miles out of it.
Yes, in the worst case scenario take out a mortgage and finance the cost of the new battery pack. It's doable. It's like getting a new car for a fraction of the price.
The best option would be to get replace cell that is about the same as the rest. New battery can cause problems to other batteries, because the balance is off…
@@haukikannel I would just have the whole pack replaced.
@@haukikannelThat absolutely makes no sense. You're replacing an entire battery pack so all the batteries are new and are the same. If you're replacing individual battery cells, then I can see your point that it could cause problems to other cells in the same battery pack.
If you own a Tesla, you should have good enough credit for a low interest loan from the bank for $12g. Then the monthly cost over the next 150 000 miles becomes almost laughable with inflation. Do the math, I’ll wait.
If a 3rd party (someone other that Tesla) works on the battery pack would your insurance company need to be notified?
My thought is that I cannot see any reason batteries cannot be designed to be able to be replaced, or even individual cells can be replaced. Also, why cannot data from each cell be monitored by the car itself? It makes no sense to scrap an entire battery if only one or a few cells go bad.
Afternoon mate
Insurance companies are always looking for a new revenue stream. Why have they not started selling extended warranties on out-of-warranty batteries? Better still, this could be a warranty stream for the manufacturers themselves, as who better knows than them what the reliability profile is and they can get the components at their normal OEM cost. Maybe a video about this insurance option, Sam?
The warning message was likely a fluke, I've seen this with "service visual assistance system" and "Service transmission" error messages a LOT, scary message shows up 1 time or a few times, nothing happens and then never comes back, or keeps coming back without reason.
Isn t it possible to go arround the bad cells with some kind off backup up workarround connections or is this to difficult. Or is this a
stupid idea ??
AFAIK Tesla packs do that anyway but they can only deal with a very small number of bad cells.
Thanks for all this information. I assume if the vehicle is still in pretty good shape and everything else works fine, getting a new battery would be the best option for me and not trying to go for a newer vehicle. It is kind of a judgement call should the battery go bad in the vehicle.
Or if we can find a 3rd party that can do the battery repairs cheaper than Tesla pricings.
What is the warranty if we do get a new battery from Tesla??? Does our Auto Insurance help pay for some of the costs??? Things to ask when the time comes.
I just got my new 2023 model Y LR Aug 2023 so it will be a while before I reach that time to be thinking about my battery status.
Take care.
How would one swap out a battery from a structural battery pack?
you loosen the bolts remove the battery, put the new one in and fasten the bolts again, done in 20 minutes.
dirt cheap, high value.
but who wants a new battery? the car is perfectly fine, no issues. it will work for another 200k miles easily, and more.
if oyu mean cell replacing, no , thats just stupid, thats like rpeairing an iphone, not worht it.
the product is way to efficient to even try.
it will cost more money, time, hassel, pollution, etc.
just get a new one.
it is basicalyl free since the entire value stays in the car.
for 16k you get a totaled tesla at best, if at all.
a tesla with a new battery doubles that instantly, it is actually a gain in value and not an expense in the first place to replace the pack.
but not needed it runs fine, no problems.
Lithium batteries also expire with age. My low kilometre (180,000 klm) muscle car is 47 years old & still runs fine, with 87% of it's original compression. Original engine never been rebuild.
What are the odds of an EV battery lasting 47 years with 87% battery capacity?
Yours is the exception, not the rules. Most people don’t even change the oil regularly on their ice vehicles.
Yea I agree with the other post. Its nice to hear, but there is a reason why there not that many older cars in the streets. They burn out and ran till they die. Also, to play fair, I think there is a bit of a miss wording - the battery doesnt just stop working - it just doesnt hold as much charge over the next 15 years or so. Hopefully they can figure out how to improve that. Mainly what really kills them is build up / thermal run away follow by over heating them (like fast charging them).
@@ZeusBullyMax In the old car's, it was usually body rust that killed the car's. However my car has been in the family 47 years, has always been garaged & serviced adequately.
When you take your car for a ride, the exhaust pollution coming from the tail pipe is humongus!@@SunRise-ul7ko
Where I live cars your age are in junkyards all rusted out.
I hate to get into an accident in a car that old..
Sounds like a business opportunity. Diagnostics of Tesla battery packs, isolate and replace the faulty cell(s)
Yep, great analytical and rebuilt guys in the EV space exist, Gruber motors are one set of guys to talk to - in the USA, for battery cell - testing, extraction, matching and replacement.
If that $12k replacement is a genuine offer, it is likely only ob an exchange basis direct to Tesla.
Wreck the car for parts - there should be a whole lot more than $16k in spare parts for the smash repair and used EV cell- modules / electro-mechanical repair sector... *the car is as good as done" - on a mileage basis.
car worth 16k: add 12k will it then be worth 28k? option: sell the car add 26 up to 39k and have a new car. the repair seems ok too if other things don’t start to fail as well
I think there should be an old battery deposit. Manufacturers should give 10,000 dollar deposit on my old battery. For repair, recycling, stationary storage......81 percent is still good for someone. Even as a lower range expected car..
I think ev cars will have prices reflecting the actual range at the used status. 10 yrs old 150 miles range. Lower expected price for lower range, available
My hunch on fast charging, is that it DOES NOT degrade the battery faster. However it probably increases the incidences of a failure. I would 100% sell that car. You dont know what you will get with a refurb battery.
The solution for premature battery failure is insurance. And manufacturers should built in programmable fuses to isolate faulty cells, it is better to have 80% capacity than zero.
Too long to explain, but the way those battery pack is built, they can't do it. if they do it, will cost way more since will be needed to add so many components. This said, normally, battery pack must going down all together as they getting old, but failure can happen and look like it's maybe the case in this and the battery pack do it's job, warning the driver before it's too late.
nope, it actually has all that and way way more than that already.
every single cell is babysitted all the time, this was user error and it's just one case anyway.
the battery is not dead anyway, has high value and still operates fine.
the car did already the normal lifetime of an ice car.
ev's last at least double that of ice in the worst case.
a battery replacement is always worth it and for free since the value of the new battery which costs 8-9k stqays in the car, not comparable to a new engine in an ice vehicle.
i dont see any issues@@sergiomomesso1590
@@sergiomomesso1590 It all depends on the pack is designed. I saw tear downs of both the Tesla and BYD packs, they are not designed to be repaired. The Atto3 pack is very well designed with individual BMS channels per cell, and the Tesla pack is less sophisticated but does allow for reduced capacity without lower operating voltage. Redundancy can be designed in but cost would go up.
Batteries are inherently being balanced if installed in parallel but unbalanced cells can occur and will lower cycle life. The high number of cells in the Tesla packs will have a higher probability of a faulty cell.
I think Elon Musk had come around to the idea of using Prismatic cells because of the higher packing density and lower manufacturing cost. I heard the 4860 cells are not happening.
Mine last 15k miles before a cell went out of balance and now i need a replacement.
If Battery is 8 years or 160 kilometers, what happens if you are under that, but the battery just doesn't have the capacity it used to?
the batter wont have the capacity it is used to, thats it.
dont give to much to this 1 case which is still respectable lifetime, actually the lifetime milage of an ice car.
a new one is very cheap already and it will get cheaper in the future.
it is a nobrainer already, but there is no need to replace it, it is fine, 20% less range and slower charging is not an issue for 99% of people anyway.
i mean i charge my tesla once a week with the sun, i spend like 10 seconds to plug and unplug.
if you have a new battery in a tesla the value of that is insane it stays in the car like 100% and degrades very slowly like a new car again.
it is not wasted money like replacing an engine in an ice vehicle which has close to 0 value added.
but a tesla with a new battery has double in value instantly, and the cars are made for millions of km,
it's a no brainer
Once more Sam is relentlessly logical❤
My ID3 has your "suspect" LG Chem batteries. In two and a half years I would estimate that it has lost no more than 5%. Actually, possibly less (~12 miles). In that time I've rapid charged it 4 times, but never low to maximum. The rest has been Type 2 charging at work around 11.5kW, and invariably I take it to 100% because I may do a trip at the weekend. Either way, it lasts me all week, even in winter because I'm not out and about so much then. I think it may last donkey's years, though I'm going after a smaller car next. The ID3 is actually unnecessarily big, including range, for my needs. Something like an E-UP! or similar would do the job perfectly well. The only thing dissuading me from a used 30kWh Leaf is the passive BMS.
I thought there was a market for used battery packs as used batteries for Power Wall?
yes there is, aks body shops why they hide totaled teslas in their lot, because people come in and want parts all day, it's insane actually.
people use the batteries for everything, home, their car, their vaporizer, etc.
andcompanys want them as well, no problem at all to find a use case.
If the EV battery just degrades you can still use the car and just charge it more often. If your gas car develops a bad problem your range is zero until you fix it.
If you’re the owner of a BMW 328i, then you know that your car is a workhorse. With its peppy engine and sporty handling, the 328i can handle just about anything you put it through.
But what happens when your engine finally gives out? Replacing the engine on a BMW 328i can be costly.
In short, The labor cost is between $2,900 and $4000, while the engine will cost you around $8,563 and $8,692. So, all in all, you’re looking at a bill of over $11,000 to $20,000. The difference in the cost depends on the engine you get and where you do the replacement.
🇨🇦
I have the LFP pack in my m3 hope that thing lasts forever. Or until I get another Tesla.
Tesla uses LFP for Its new Powerwall. LFP batteries should last 20 years.
Designing serviceability into battery pack designs would be beneficial to longer term value retention in EV's. Aftermarket battery pack industries would develop to bring down prices overall and would improve older vehicle performance as better batteries become availably..
Unfortunately this long term value building comes at the cost of more profitable new vehicle sales and as such there exists little incentives for manufactures to make the battery packs easily serviceable and/or modable..
Despite short term diminishment in profit there exists ais a strong Market for product brands associated with enduring practical value and some manufactures will embrace this by establishing a strong relationship with the post sale EV market along with the gear head type people who that inhabit that eco system.
Not that the Chevy Bolt battery pack is super-serviceable, but it’s definitely not complicated and requires only 42 bolts or something to remove, and drops right off of the bottom of the car after draining the coolant from the cooling system. It’s pretty heavy so requires the shop to have appropriate equipment to do the swap, but quite honestly I could very much see many shops being able to replace the entire thing with little problems. There’s a really good video on UA-cam by Weber State University that details the entire process. My Bolt battery was replaced by GM earlier this year so thankfully I’m covered for another 8 years.
tesla should just do 650,000km battery warranties, if the problem isn't widespread. In fact, to boost confidence, they should replace all batteries for free that have done less than 650,000km, even if they weren't given that warranty when bought. Make it 700,000km
Nice Thought 🤔
Ridiculous and unnecessary.
Sure. Tesla would simply look at statistics and add it's cost to the price of cars plus a buffer. EV battery warranties are far better than ICE,
Yea agree Tesla is already doing this at 8yr / 120,000mi far above the 3yr/36,000mi you get on an ICE car…
We aren't at the point where have data whether all these Teslas start dying en masse after 10 years. I'm considering buying 2018M3LR for $29k, or new, or skipping EVs entirely until the Chinese EVs arrive.
Go to Gruber
How many people drive more than 10,000 km per year? I'm talking urban dwellers. Not many I suspect. The mean average daily commute in Aust. is around 16km apparently. That's 5,840 km per year. That means a battery life of up to 27 years depending on use. Even lasting 15 years would seem reasonable. In 10 years time, the fast charging EV network will be widely distributed, making battery range even less critical. Thus further extending the practical useful life of worn down batteries.
Sounds like the BMS sorted out the problem cells automatically. When cells go bad in a module it usually means the cells have discharged too far, and dropped below a certain voltage threshold, and the BMS rejects those bad cells and therefore the whole module is cactus. Refurbishing these modules often means just individually recharging the problem cells, not even replacing them, and once that's done, the BMS is happy again and things work as normal. In this case, the BMS must be capable of individually forcing the charging on individual cells that have gone under voltage, therefore bringing those cells back into service.
1) My last two BMW's did about 120k miles, costing a fortune in spare parts, sensors etc to get there before the engines failed and the cars became uneconomic to repair. The problem is not the ICE engine, its the fact cars aren't designed to be repaired, even head gaskets can't be replaced and engines can't easily be worked on.
2) $12k for a new battery with the old battery worth $6k in scrap makes swapping a battery good value at 150k miles. I'd probably have the wheel bearings and suspension checked as well, then the car is as good as new.
3) We have a big problem with catalytic converted theft in the UK, partly because we don't have a functioning police force any more, but will battery theft be a thing soon if all the average caravan owner needs is an electric screwdriver to remove them?
Wise man. Companies are starting to show up that a doing the 2nd use/life things on EV batteries. One used bus batteries because there was a steady supply. Tie this in with buying a replacement battery would be a win.
Exactly my thoughts!
We've got the same issue with DPFs removed in Ireland. 😢
Diesel particulates are the most nasty stuff on the planet. It's a shame this hasn't been banned yet in the EU.
All teslas should have free battery replacement on all vehicles. ( he should do this to his benefit then the customer. By keeping and recycling it keeps cost down but the true benifit is it keeps customers longer and eliminates ev fear)
He should also offer intrest free financing on all teslas especially during our resesion/fed rampage. If you get everyone on board with your company when the competition is still trying to reconfigure and recoup a ressetion you win. Your customers should not worry about batteries and just injoy being a tesla customer.
Wont be long before china does replacement batteries, i got one for my dyson, believe me ,it now runs better than ever😊
It depends: This Driver did a lot of miles in a short period of time. So the shell of the car is still pretty new. If you do average mileage a year, a replacement makes no sense.
I can’t wait till there are non Tesla service centers that will replace or fix battery packs. There may even be upgraded pacs in the future that are lighter, charge faster, or even get more range.
My guess would be that Tesla got notified over the air that the battery pack had a fault and they told the car to ignore that cell due to the 81% battery rating
Just add a generator on one axle and it would charge itself when the wheels turn giving you unlimited mileage ships trucks planes everything could have unlimited power and mileage
Lucky break for the guy but it does raise a few key points. Should manufacturers be taking more responsibility for their product's lifecycle? A company like Tesla should be regulated to have a reconditioning service which replaces the underperforming cells of existing batteries or repurposes those batteries for other applications like home electrical storage.
The naysayers don't seem to get that an underperforming car battery is a perfectly fine home battery.
That’s the problem they are worth nothing second hand, then your up for the battery 16 with labour, then the a/c goes, etc . Manly the doors drop hinges wear etc from opening closing, window mechanisms wear, so you get more wind noise rattles etc . Better off parting it out you’ll get more money back in parts once the battery is toast eg sell the motor body panels , computer etc
I always made an argument that the replacement battery in the future will be cheaper to replace. Maybe the current cars, like my model 3 can get some future magical battery. Who knows what will happen.
I have the model 3 2020, my battery died at 116,000 miles. In 3 days. Is out of warranty and replace the battery is $13,200
The battery to they will put in the car is refurbished, there are not new batteries. Warranty 40,000 miles or 4 years.
U dont get a new battery under warranty its a Recondition pack
When people say the car is worthless and will be dragged to the scrap heap, they don’t literally mean it’s worthless. What they mean is the wreckers will only offer them $500 for the car. Sure the wreckers will turn that car into several thousand in parts but your average person isn’t scrapping their old car in their front yard to sell parts.
The car is effectively worthless the moment that battery dies. To the owner.
People need to factor in inflation too. $12K today but $20K in 8 years? And what about wait time for availability down the road?
No battery prices are going down about 15% per year.
In 8 years an aftermarket 3 and Y replacement battery might be sold at big box stores for $1K.
That warranty determines the price of the used Tesla.
This is no different than many things sold that have a ticking timebomb.
So on my 2022 Model Y Long range the battery warranty is 8 years or just 100,000 miles (whichever comes first) with a 70% minimum retention charge rate.
After that, car buyers are going to want $12,000 off the price since the battery is out of warranty.
This is no different than the other warranties on the car.
1) Vehicle warranty: 4 years or 50,000 miles and then the buyer is responsible for the cost of fixing the car
2) Battery and drive unit warranty: 8 years or 100,000 miles and the buyer looks at $12,000 to replace the battery
3) Supplemental Restraint System Limited Warranty: This warranty covers the vehicle's supplemental restraint system, including airbags and seatbelt-related components. It is valid for 5 years or 60,000 miles
That 12,000 cost is going to be taken out of the used car price.
first thought that springs to mind is 'the media paid him to put out a hit piece'.
oh look, now its working with no error on the screen!
convenient that.
Just so I get "iT" straight ,
WHO is *him* ?
him is the tesla owner who came up with this battery failure@@icosthop9998
I hear they're good Powerwall mates.
It begs the question why wouldn't Tesla themselves buy it from the customer at a reasonable price or discount against a fresh replacement? Surely they more than anyone else could repair, recycle or simply grind to black mass, more effectively than anyone else? Or am I crazy?
$12k is not cheap to most people, however I will compare it to replacing the exhaust pipe on my my pickup which would have been $8k in 2016. With taking inflation in consideration it would be over $10k today. So when people argue that EV batteries are an issue compared to ICE vehicles I give them this as an example.
Not doubting your claim, but honestly wondering why it would be so expensive for an exhaust system? What type of vehicle? That price sounds off the charts!
$8k for an exhaust 😂 Good story champ..
I think that the manufacturer should replace your pack for much less: the replacement does not have to be new, it could be ‘refurbished’, and should be a breeze to replace: plug and play.
Like a well designed smartphone.
A logical solution would be a serviceable battery pack, enabling individual battery repair or replacement. Why hasn't that been done: So simple.