Twin Oaks Labour & Governance || Valhalla Movement Trippin' USA
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- Опубліковано 5 бер 2014
- This video is about an intentional community in Virginia called Twin Oaks. It is one of the oldest intentional communities in the United States of America. This video discusses how they function as a unit with their shared labour for the community's businesses and how their governance is set up. It is quite thorough, and has been implemented for over 40 years. This kind of information is very valuable and is not discussed openly very often. This is why we have made a video highlighting their structural process. This is just one example of how a community can function.
Music credit to Bonobo, song called Don't Wait
These videos and text about Twin Oaks are part of a Valhalla Series called Trippin', in which other communities, projects, people and groups are highlighted.
Here is the article on Twin Oaks: valhallamovement.com/blog/2014...
The purpose of this series is to demonstrate the diversity of ways in which a community may structure itself and function. These videos and blogs are meant to share experiences and ideas from other initiatives order to inspire an idea or structure for those who are working through this process themselves. For those of you who aspire to start a community or are already starting one, there is no need to re-invent the wheel. We must learn from others, especially those that have been around for a while. This series is also meant to show the faces behind this global movement, the personalities of the people involved, so that viewers can see that these are real people, regular people, just like you, who are doing this. - Фільми й анімація
Ok this is just Tony's perspective and the stuff he's not telling you can fill volumes.
Have "volumes" been written. Are records being kept?
Thank you for making and sharing this video presentation. I thought the narrator did a fine job of introductory explanation. Might I know his name please?
Initially, as I was looking through the boxes of things to watch, the words "Valhalla", "Twin Oaks" and "Governance" caught my eye. This (Responsible and Participatory Governance Ways) is a subject that I have been interested in for a long time. The more specific context, that my interest is within, is "New Tribalism", or "Neo-Tribalism". I have long wanted to build a workable and lasting social structure for certain of those People that are disenchanted (as I am) with the way things are going now (actually the way these things have mostly always gone) in the United States. I know this is a world problem, but I choose to stay focused on the Land Of My Birth.
I yearn for Better for the nation I was born in and would have settled for even just a small tribe , or community, to be part of. But, I have missed the actual boat. I'm now too old and rickety, to be very effective as a participant in one of these alternate communities (a successful one). But my mind is still active around this Idea. I will still study the concepts involved, just for the pleasure of it.
Anyway. Here I am. And will begin reading all the comments here. I will probably ask questions and make comments of my own...to gain more knowledge about Ways Of Governance For The People, Of The People and BY The People. I am glad that I found a site(s) that has accumulated actual experience that works.
Suddenly I am reminded of why I'd rather be a hermit.
Yes Shawn. When weary, retreat and rest. Then get back in here and try some more. I'm sure that each time you make the effort you will grow some. Grow stronger in what you know, or understand.
Why?
Wow, this is really cool.. sounds like something id love to try out for a period of time.. sense of community and connection. seems great.
I agree "Deathislight". Going there and participating in "Twin Oaks Community" could be a very educational experience. I'm sure One would "grow" from it.
Twin Oaks Labour & Governance....Two Wolfs and a sheep deciding what to have for dinner!
If the managers have more power than others, then by definition you don't have an egalitarian society. I don't understand how 100 people would ever need managers, unless some of them are extremely unreasonable. Hell, with so few people you should be able to practice consensus democracy.
From what I gathered from visiting that community, managers are simply people who are taking responsibility for leading a project, making sure it gets done and done well, making sure that the project has enough help and resources, etc. Plus, this community has 100 different managers, and 100 people… so I gather that everyone there is a manager of something. Any ways, this video is just to share what they are like and how they run things. In their experience, 100 people is too big for consensus decision making, they've tried it in the past and had to reformulate because it was not working as the community grew larger than 50. What they practice is more like sociocracy to me, which is still a great way of making decisions in a big group, if not equally as good as consensus decision making. Twin Oaks has a sister community called Acorn. They use consensus decision making. I didn't get a chance to visit them to see how that is working for them, so someone else would have to give that input. They are a much smaller community than Twin Oaks, with about 30 members, it would be cool to know how they are doing! And it would be really interesting to see a large community implementing consensus decision making though! If you can find one that does it and works functionally, please do let everyone know :) Thanks for your feed back Giovanni.
I just learned about sociocracy and i like it. It's very similar to a consensus demo.
Giovanni Foulmouth Ya it's great. It is what we are using at Valhalla.
I lived at TO for many years. The managerial system is absolutely necessary. The community could not function without it.
ardalla535 You need to give arguments for why it's necessary.
great video, maybe shoulda gotten a dose of this info in 12th grade public education government class as a much more relatable, sensical form of governance, "grass-roots" style (that works! right?.. and not even mentioning the other very sensible way of life explained in the "labor" segments)
A valuable Idea, this. Thank you for sharing it, Keshav a.k.a. Kiki Boddula. Hmmm...I wonder if they have "Governance Classes" here where I live? I bet they would know at the Library. Surely, they know about the schooling and Teachers here?!?
It is a sensible form of governance for the people at Twin Oaks. Before new people become full members, they make darn sure that the new member coming in is in agreement with the fundamental principles and works well with others.
The problem is in scaling such groups up beyond 100 or 150 people.
Great video, very informative.
I was wondering, does Twin Oaks have any charity events, or donate to any charities outside the community? Just wondering, because I love giving to charity when I can.
I want to leave Hawaii to live there !
WOW! Now there is a jump for ya!
Er H you’re crazy
At 3:53 he starts to describe Acorn's decision-making process, how it differs from Twin Oaks, and why consensus won't work for TO--making the claim that consensus can't work for TO because they have too many people.
I feel I should point out that one of Acorn's members, GPaul, has put forth the claim that the size of the community has NOTHING to do with whether or not it can successfully make consensus-decisions, that consensus can just as easily work/fail between 2 people as it can between 100, or 1000+. And I'm inclined to believe him over the man in this interview because GPaul has actually been to very big intentional communities in Europe that use consensus to make their decisions.
As far as I know Twin Oaks has never actually TRIED to operate by consensus, and that's cool, they're clearly doing something right since they've been around for almost half a century, but it's a stretch to say that consensus can't work without having ever really tried to cultivate it.
+Marl Karx Thanks for your input, during my travels I didn't get the time to come and check out Acorn. Would have loved to hear what people there have to say and observe how things work there. I am simply a documenter who wanted to share my road trip through different communities with a larger audience. Trying to spark discussions in order to improve upon alternate systems, so your comment is really appreciated. I'd love to hear more about what this GPaul has said about concensus, it's such a tricky topic. Could you share some links?
Marl Karx twin oaks has a system known as "Freedom From the Tyranny of the Majority ". If 6 members, (or more obviously,) vote against something, it doesn't matter how many voted for it. 6 is a deciding vote to vote something down. Problem with that is there's like a core of crones that don't let anything they don't like happen. An inner gang of crabby patties.
Yes. I was struck by that comment of the narrator here, about too many People making participatory governance unwieldy...or something like that.
To clarify meaning of term, would you tell me what "TO" stands for? I am awful at letters standing for words.
Basically, without any real experience in actual self-governance ways, I still tend to believe what you have shared here about "the size of the community has NOTHING to do with whether or not it can successfully make consensus-decisions, that consensus can just as easily work/fail between 2 people as it can between 100, or 1000+." I want to believe this. But I would change the word "NOTHING" to "something".
I can see where the focus on "Consensus" could "adversely" effect the time element in governance processes...especially where production in the prosperity quest is involved. There is a time duration factor, that should be considered in this. Computers can help with this issue, as well as deciding how much time is allowed to discuss and issue and vote on it. Surely, workable compromises are possible here?
@@laurahenderson5524 It seems like, from what you have shared, that "the rule of the few" has reemerged in "Twin Oaks Community".
I squirm a bit, at the use of the word "tyranny" in front of the word "majority".
I have to ask here: Is the Will Of The Majority always tyrannical? Is it ever seen as "Reasonable"? And "Fair"? And "Just"? I am not aware of tyranny, of the few, ever being reasonable, fair and just. But I am sure this must be the case occasionally.
I think what might be bothering me here, is the use of a word with negative connotation being placed in front of a word that I see as having a positive connotation.
May I ask: Was the establishment, in the "Twin Oaks Community Governance System", of "Freedom From the Tyranny of the Majority " done by most of its members or by a few of its members? (I would love to see a transcript of that discussion)
its proposed in Honduras to build two full cities completely sovereign from Honduras and run by the corporations who build it. They will have their own police and prisons- and I'm sure they will need them. I want to see how the horror rand utopia turns out. After a decade it will most likely be a sweat shop in one city and golf courses in the other.
Hello all. Id like to start a small home community in the north west area of the US, centered around simple living, peace and old world trades , im a stone sculptor, builder,stone mason and farmer, im extremely motivated and love creating but I need a bit of help finding the right people
I'm trying to spread the word but there is a lot of resistance.
"A lot of resistance" as in the intensity of the resistance, or the numbers of governance participants in said resistance...or both?
Hi, I don't understand how the Twin Oaks system of governance is different from any Western Democracy models in existence today (not including the US). Sure, the bureaucratic titles may be different, but if it walks and talks like a duck, then it probably is a duck. I'd love to live in an egalitarian society, but if my labor gets exploited by the "managers" and I get nothing in return, then I'd rather just live in the real world, where I get to at least keep part of my productivity. I wish all the best to you guys.
+Warisa Racket Write to them and ask :) I am just someone who is trying to document different places I go, to show examples, spark conversations, and perhaps together find way to improve upon alternative systems that are already in place.
You've heard the man..there are 100 of them in the community and around 100 of managerial positions..so basically everyone is participating equally in the system of government..
"...and I get nothing in return..." From what I have seen, so far, One gets a lot in return in "Twin Oaks Community". Maybe I am mistaken in this...in some ways, or to some degree?
Good work, this. Thank you @@Vkalox
Are there 100 members of this community ? @@bratbrat4473
There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
Exactly. Members must make a three-week visit, get invited back for good, undergo a six month probation and then become full members. Chances are the person who doesn't do their share of things they don't want to do fail their probation.
All members work 42 hours/week, either in a productive industry (making hammocks or tofu) or in activities that must be done for the good of the group (like scrubbing toilets or kitchen duty). For their 42 hours of work, they get food more or less to their liking, clothing, a place to sleep, use of the facilities and a small stipend. Their expenses are very low: they grow their own food, make their own entertainment, cut wood for heat, get water from wells and are not slaves of fashion or the latest gadget.
They reserve the right to expel malingerers and leeches.
About a fifth of members leave every year. It is a singular lifestyle that does not appeal to many people.
What about sexual orientation..gay bi sexual are there any issues around this ?
Bigotry is everywhere an anti gayness also don't be fooled by these lifestyles thinking there isn't..js
There is use of money and there are food costs.
Yeah.
We don't exchange money in our HOUSE. That does NOT make us communist.
So you don't earn any USD money there?
Howdy my guy- I’ve been doing research on this place for a while, and you do indeed earn a small allowance of spending money to spend in town! You don’t make a lot because you don’t need to pay for food, housing, medical care, clothing, child care, etc- but you do make a bit of money to spend how you wish.
@@nivekthezombie6767 so only money to spend in town? Basically I give the money right back to them? I can't order online or anything?
@@agoogleuser8840 well they have public computers and you have your own bank account. Go right ahead and order something. You can order whatever you want, send letters and packages to wherever you want- it’s not like it’s a cult
@@agoogleuser8840 also the town doesn’t belong to Twin Oaks. The town is just nearby, and it was an example of “hey you can just head on out of the community and go to town and buy some stuff for fun”
@@nivekthezombie6767 oh ok. I thought it was a town that belonged to them lol. I thought they meant they paid you in like some kind of commune currency that they created instead of USD$
You lost me at "Manager Shifts".
Okay, so this community basically proves small scale Communism works, but what about large scale?
Well that’s just a Buch if these near each other like villages
this does NOT prove communism works.
this proves more that *Capitalism* provides something for *Everyone* because this ONLY works within a greater Capitalist system.
Basically, this place works because the people there CHOOSE to devote their time and energy into this community and its system.
That CHOICE is a big part of the Incentive.
In Communism, you DON'T get to CHOOSE how you engage with society, you MUST give your time and energy to SCHEDULED tasks in service of the community.
No matter WHAT you WANT to do, you must do something in the State's list of available jobs.
No "I wanna write books" or "I wanna offer classes teaching yoga" or "lecture about the possibility of aliens" or "sell photographs of birds" or "sit in my room and think all day" or "wander the country selling jewelry" or " be a princess in a Renaissance Faire" you get the idea, right?
CHOICE is the FUNDAMENTAL PRINCIPLE of Capitalism.
Do some more vigorous Self-Educating, and perhaps you will see that it is not Capitalism that you have problems with, but the MODIFICATIONS to the market which have been imposed on it through the years...
Many short-sighted or self-serving people in positions of political power have imposed certain Short-Sighted or Self-Serving laws which bend the market to advantage certain communities, which disables the Anti-Corruption mechanisms BUILT IN to Capitalist markets (any business DEPENDS on being valuable to the community, cheating or harming the community sees you ABANDONED and broke).
Man-made modifications to markets are SLOPPY and create unnatural nooks and gaps and dark places where Corruption can take root...or eventually so distort the way that the market functions that Corruption and Exploitation is REWARDED...
Ours is so bad that the layers of crap plastered over our market has created entirely ARTIFICIAL markets, which offer NO value to anyone, except those who can stomach the corrupt practices of those fields (think: financial speculation)...
Point is, maybe it's not market capitalism that disgusts you.
Maybe it's the VIOLATION of markets that you don't like...
And it is natural for ANYONE with Principles to be disgusted with the modern model...
But this Commercialist-Consumerist-Exploitative abomination drowning us is a result of POLITICAL failures, not Market failures.
Gods Bless.
wtf?