Organising a Novel Is a Nightmare

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  • Опубліковано 7 січ 2025

КОМЕНТАРІ • 54

  • @KierenWestwoodWriting
    @KierenWestwoodWriting  Місяць тому

    👉 Join my Writing Club - www.patreon.com/kierenwestwoodwriting
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  • @GlowOfFarore
    @GlowOfFarore Рік тому +3

    My go-to organization method is FigJam! It's not for writing strictly, it's just a whiteboarding tool that basically functions as a digital version of a corkboard. It's free and lets me have that disorganized google doc laid out visually with images and diagrams inserted in wherever I want.

    • @KierenWestwoodWriting
      @KierenWestwoodWriting  Рік тому

      That sounds really useful, I'm going to check it out. Thank you for pointing it out!

  • @alexhopewell449
    @alexhopewell449 2 роки тому +7

    I'm currently in the trenches with the third draft (first full re-write) of my first novel. I've amassed about 350k words of content and am looking to strip some of it away while growing the essential sections.
    If I'd be bold enough to give any advice, it would be to focus on what you focused on with your shorter work: character. Write characters you enjoy writing; write characters who, as the author of their journey, you care about. Write characters who make you laugh. If you come to the desk wanting to develop your characters, wanting to see what your characters will do next, you will find more joy in the process of finding their story. In my experience, the plotlines and themes all merge and begin to make sense in subsequent drafts. I'm amazed by how what felt like loose ends or seemingly random bits of information ended up connecting and making for a much richer story.
    Another blurb about characters: you talk about wanting to create a story that will immerse your reader, but characters are what will immerse you, the writer, in the writing process, and keep you going when the plot feels stale.
    Anyway, don't get discouraged by the discouraging moments. Writing is hard. There would be far more novelists if it weren't.
    Best.

    • @KierenWestwoodWriting
      @KierenWestwoodWriting  2 роки тому +2

      Wow, 350k and your third draft is incredible!
      Your advice about following character I'm definitely going to follow. You're absolutely right on that, it's incredibly important. I'm hoping I can do a good job with it. This is the first time I've had a real cast of characters, and they've all felt significantly different to me from the outset, so I'm taking that as a good sign. Just got to keep unconvering more about who they are.
      Thanks for your thoughts, definitely the kind of advice that can set a writer back on course, I appreciate it!

    • @gamewriteeye769
      @gamewriteeye769 2 роки тому +3

      That's tough; I wrote a zero draft that could've, by estimation, reach that word count, although they were mostly skeleton scenes with minimal narration, focusing on dialogue, character thoughts, and action (lacking description). My suggestion would be (from my experience) with each subsequent draft, focus on developing plot point scenes that truly matter to the characters (and, by extension, their voice).
      While I pantsed my way through several drafts already (5), none were able to reach completion because scenes lack structure due to writing what I'd call habitual “inconcise writing”, lacking clarity. If you discovery write, you're bound to run into these structural problems, and my best suggestion to you, would be to return to the drawing board, list plot points, and start outlining what you have.
      Use Save The Cat or The Three Act Story Structure to place “key tent poles scenes” that point a general backbone to your novel, so you don't meander (exposition, info dumps, long stretches of introspection), and end up leading breadcrumb trails of plot points (they don't go anywhere). Use “focal points” of a scene to draw the narrative focus in. The key is to trim and have all elements interweave as a scene plays out uniformly together. At the very least, discovery writing identified key character traits.

  • @onjelbercier
    @onjelbercier Рік тому +3

    This is me all the way! So many storylines, a complex world that borderlines the real world but in a different Era, and little plotting because I write best in the moment. I have been getting complaints from beta readers because my story world isn't clear enough even though I know what I mean for it to be.

  • @JoeyPaulOnline
    @JoeyPaulOnline 2 роки тому +2

    I have had that problem where I'm not sure where my book will fit, but I generally find a spot somewhere and hope for the best! Good luck with getting back to novels!

    • @KierenWestwoodWriting
      @KierenWestwoodWriting  2 роки тому +1

      That's what I'm going to try and do to! I'd rather write in to be a bit of a misfit than change it into something I don't like as much 😊 Thanks Joey, feels good to be back to it.

  • @flamesofyesteryear9627
    @flamesofyesteryear9627 2 роки тому +1

    Novel Factory is a pretty good software solution. They have character sheets, Location sheets, count words and tell you how many words you need to write each day to hit your projected goal and it udpates as you go. To the best of my knowledge there is only a web version now as they scrubbed the desktop version.

  • @plamenxyzpenchev
    @plamenxyzpenchev 2 роки тому +6

    Love your approach to writing man. Rooting for you and this project 💪

  • @MagnetMagicGirl
    @MagnetMagicGirl Рік тому +1

    I have this problem too. Sci-fi portal fantasy. Dragons, comet mermaids, and space ships. I have a ton of characters, though. I kind of want to write this as a set of companion novels. One for each character. I really like when TV shows give an in depth background for main characters and show all the little details that were hinted at but not explained, explicitly. But I don’t want to have to do that in the middle of the main action. So my solution: companion novels!

    • @KierenWestwoodWriting
      @KierenWestwoodWriting  Рік тому +1

      Definitely sounds like you've got plenty of material and ideas for multiple books!

    • @MagnetMagicGirl
      @MagnetMagicGirl Рік тому

      @@KierenWestwoodWriting literally soooo many books. I'm kinda daunted by the whole thing. Excited, but daunted.

  • @clintoreilly
    @clintoreilly 2 роки тому +1

    Write what you feel. Don't worry about genre, plots, rules etc and see in the end. I think why we get bored with our writing is because we comb over constantly. My opinion. If you like, try this. I become a journalist in my stories. I write what I see, hear, smell, touch and feel. Break the rules, experience the journey. That's a story. I'm part of it.

    • @KierenWestwoodWriting
      @KierenWestwoodWriting  2 роки тому +1

      Absolutely. I'm with you on that. I'm at the stage where I'm enjoying telling myself this story and I don't want that to change. If I can sustain that feeling the entire way through, I think I'll have something well worth keeping at the end.
      Write what you feel is some of the best writing advice there is, thank you 😊

    • @clintoreilly
      @clintoreilly 2 роки тому

      You got this. As it sounds like writing's in your blood. So you can't ignore it. Cheers

    • @gamewriteeye769
      @gamewriteeye769 2 роки тому +2

      So, pretty much how I'd approach the starting process. However, you should really be writing the story **you** want to tell first. Then second. Then third. Then fourth. There's no right or wrong answer, but the way you feel about your novel(s) will change overtime as you find the writing process quite the discipline. It's not about writing what you feel, it's actually writing about what you want to share. What you feel will end up being trimmed down to a bare minimum, anyway (even if I'm guilty myself of long, immersive descriptions in real time of a scene). But those parts won't service a completed story in the end, unless you're willing to axe the wood in your story.

  • @IndianOutlaw1870
    @IndianOutlaw1870 7 місяців тому

    I wrote first drafts of two novels but then realized I'm better at short stories. No more novels for me..Re-writing short story drafts is challenging enough.:)

  • @ATMcGWriter
    @ATMcGWriter 2 роки тому +1

    Hi Kieren,
    Great video! I really enjoyed this one.
    I like the combination of videos between writing tips and your own findings.
    No VANS Cap? There's a glitch in the Matrix!

    • @KierenWestwoodWriting
      @KierenWestwoodWriting  2 роки тому

      Thanks! Haha yeah, I'm purposefully not wearing them until Vans sponsor me! (not really).

  • @littletodger7008
    @littletodger7008 Рік тому +2

    Here is prime example of the value of the writer’s ‘sock drawer’. Finish the manuscript - store in sock drawer for at least a month. Edit. Publish. Works more often than not if there is a spark of a story there. The story sleeps in the sock drawer while the brain percolates it over and over while you sleep and hohns it to perfection.

  • @gamewriteeye769
    @gamewriteeye769 2 роки тому +1

    What's interesting to me looking back on this video is we've started our novels around the same time; how's yours going, Kieran? If you're interested in exchanging advice, chatting, working together, whichever you're comfortable with really, do let me know. Currently I'm on a 6th draft and applying scene structure to a lot of the skeleton scenes I wrote, having finished writing most of the background information and thought process in regards to the plot and characters, while still leaving room for the writing to change in/of itself. I've taken the holidays to look back on things, reflect on what I might do going into next year, where things may go, and I thought I'd just share I understand these struggles you go through as a writer, the goals you want to get out of your writing output; its hard, and I want you to know that you shouldn't overdo it, alright? What I mean by that is don't push yourself to commit to a specific writing routine if it negatively impacts say, your health. Take things one step at a time and you'll learn to figure out your best method when it comes to the input of your writing.

  • @joshseligman2243
    @joshseligman2243 Рік тому +1

    Hi Kieren, thank you for your honesty and candor. I too try and write stories/books that would excite me to read. I don't think that's too ambitious, I think it is courageous. Keep it moving. You've got this! -Josh Columbus, USA

    • @KierenWestwoodWriting
      @KierenWestwoodWriting  Рік тому +1

      Thanks Josh! Likewise and I wish you all the best for your writing as well 🙂

  • @EchosChambers
    @EchosChambers 2 роки тому +1

    I can strogly relate to your curent situation as i am doing somthing familir and my approach to writing is also simaler. when working on the organizeation and tplotting my fav program to use is called campfire write, it could help you if ur looking for aprogram.

  • @miguelangelohexylvania6628
    @miguelangelohexylvania6628 Рік тому +2

    How's it going, friend? P.S. I bought Gold Fury.

  • @BrittanyPutzer
    @BrittanyPutzer 2 роки тому +4

    I didn't realize how much I needed this until I watched it 😍. Great job. I'm probably partial but I do love your tips more 🤣 but I'll watch whatever you throw at me. ❤️

    • @KierenWestwoodWriting
      @KierenWestwoodWriting  2 роки тому +1

      Thank you so much Brittany 😊 The tips certainly won't be going anywhere since I think I'm going to have to refresh myself/learn more as I'm writing this thing! I appreciate that so much though 😊

    • @jameskeretses5272
      @jameskeretses5272 Рік тому

      😊😊😊😊😊

  • @AwakeArise
    @AwakeArise 2 роки тому +2

    Love this Kieren, more videos like this please 🤝

    • @KierenWestwoodWriting
      @KierenWestwoodWriting  2 роки тому +2

      Thanks mate, this one seems to have been well received so I'll definitely do more 😊 Thanks for sticking with me for over a year! 👊

  • @opollitico
    @opollitico 2 роки тому +1

    Kieren! Hey man, good vid

  • @stevemisik6735
    @stevemisik6735 2 роки тому +2

    Have a look at papyrus author writing software. I wrote my first novel using scrivener and it worked okay. Papyrus author has better features and interface. I like the thinkboard part of it for planning a story out. Enjoy your videos, keep up the good work.

    • @KierenWestwoodWriting
      @KierenWestwoodWriting  2 роки тому

      Thanks Steve, I'll take a look, it's another one I somehow haven't heard of! My requirements for writing short fiction and novels are a lot different, I'm discovering.

  • @ADSmallAuthor
    @ADSmallAuthor 2 роки тому +1

    I just write bullet points ( sometimes using different colours or fonts depending on the story) then as I am writing the story and I have covered a bullet point I then delete the bullet point.

    • @KierenWestwoodWriting
      @KierenWestwoodWriting  2 роки тому

      That sounds like a good system. Is that in your main manuscript document, underneath your story? Or do you have separate one for it?

    • @ADSmallAuthor
      @ADSmallAuthor 2 роки тому

      @@KierenWestwoodWriting The document starts of as just the bullet points as my loose plan. I will then start writing and deleting the bullet points as I go. Once I have finished the story the bullet points will have been deleted then. Sorry, yes it is all in one document.

  • @hina1767
    @hina1767 4 місяці тому +1

    Hi Kieren,
    I would really like your help and advice on how to organise my novel. I wrote the first opening chapter as part of my exam in my Advanced Creative Writing module. I then had to do my final module in History and I passed my Degree in July this year. I am now free to continue my novel. It's going to be hard to get back into my novel, but what I wanted to know was what is the best way to organise the chapters. Do you outline the scenes first and then organise them into chapters? Also does it matter if the word count is longer or shorter in different chapters? I am more of a short story writer but have always wanted to write a novel. I love the advice you give on your channel like not putting pressure on yourself if you can't write daily
    Your advice makes writing more achievable and realistic It's more than other channels.
    Thank you for all your helpful videos
    Hina

    • @KierenWestwoodWriting
      @KierenWestwoodWriting  4 місяці тому

      So, chapter length in my opinion doesn't matter. There's no minimum or maximum, I just go with what I think the story needs. If I've got more to show of a scene I keep going, if I'm out of material, I end the chapter.
      In terms of organising, there are probably better writers to ask than me, as I generally tend to plan very lightly and then work things out as I go. That works for me, but it won't for everyone. There's no wrong answer there. The best thing to do is try different approaches and see what feels right to you.
      What you think is more important than anyone else, a lot of learning to write is learning how YOU write, I find.
      Sorry if that's not quite as directed as you might have been looking for!

  • @truthboundpublishing
    @truthboundpublishing 21 день тому

    I am always working on several projects at once, deadlines and uploading and covers and all the many, many tasks required of a writer;) but i am struggling as to how to keep them all organized. Not just my outlines and manuscripts, but the projects as a whole, steps to formatting, etc. Is there an application or some program you use that--at a glance you can see the status/progress of each project? Please let me know! Thank you thank you!

    • @KierenWestwoodWriting
      @KierenWestwoodWriting  21 день тому

      Milanote works for me (desktop version). It doesn’t really have inbuilt statuses for stuff but there’s a to do list function and generally a lot of customisable options that might be handy.
      I’d also love to find something that can track progress on lots of stuff too!

  • @SuperBeanson
    @SuperBeanson Рік тому

    if you're still looking for software: try Obsidian
    I've used Scrivener before, but as soon as I got into Obsidian I ditched Scrivener

  • @Joseph.S.Roberts
    @Joseph.S.Roberts 2 роки тому +2

    Brilliant video, I’m actually trying a crime thriller novel. It started out as a short story but there’s a lot of questions to answer in this one. I think if you create more questions in each scene, you will eventually get to novel length. I see that focus lamp in the background, does it work for you?

    • @KierenWestwoodWriting
      @KierenWestwoodWriting  2 роки тому

      Awesome mate, it's always good to feel a story growing into something even bigger! Since you've spent the time writing shorter stuff too, did that help you identify that the idea felt bigger and could be a novel?
      I think you're right on questions, they do give you something to write about and also keep a reader's interest I find. Always good to have that.
      I've got two of those lamps, that one and a bigger one on my desk. I don't honestly know if they have any influence on my state of mind really, I pretty much bought them because they're a softer light source and they look nice!

  • @kb2vca
    @kb2vca 2 роки тому +1

    Loved your video but two quite different thoughts struck me as I watched it. First: hard to imagine an agent who has difficulty in thinking about where they might push your work if you mention other authors and their work as being similar to yours. They may disagree with your assessment BUT that assessment tells them what publishers to approach.
    The other thought that struck me was about your approach to writing. What I heard was that you were thinking less about this first draft as simply a means to mine the raw material for your novel and more about writing what feels like a final draft. This may not be helpful in light of how you work but a first draft does not look like Michelangelo's David, it is the hunk of marble that needs first to be hewn and then observed to see where you can find the figure inside the stone and chisel out all the material that hides the sculpture. In other words, your first draft is going to weigh tons but will weigh 150 lbs when finished; will have all kinds of events many of which will be left on the cutting room floor long before the book will be sewn between hard covers, many characters that may be merged into fewer and minor characters that may succeed in taking over the tale.
    All that said - good luck. I am looking forward to hearing and reading more.

    • @KierenWestwoodWriting
      @KierenWestwoodWriting  2 роки тому +1

      Hi Bernard, that's a really good point about making comparisons to other authors when querying. I've sort of done that before, but I've always felt like I was just naming authors I liked rathrr than ones my work was actually comparable to, so could be my error. It's definitely something I'll try to do again if I reach that stage and I already feel more confident about that aspect of this book.
      In terms of drafting, I haven't typically re-drafted multiple times in my past novels. I think that's because I've felt some of my books weren't fundamentally strong enough to merit the work it would take. That's definitely an area for development for me - my own outlook on what I've written and learning to accept imperfection and work on it.
      Writing more slowly, which I'm doing, I think will also help with this. I'm thinking more, instead of forging blindly ahead just so that I get something written.
      Thanks for sharing your thoughts, these kinds of comments are really valuable to me as I find my way with a novel again!

  • @willname1654
    @willname1654 5 місяців тому

    Im in the middle of a book, and then i watched your videos. i realized my book is a flop. Should i keep writing or start over on a new

    • @KierenWestwoodWriting
      @KierenWestwoodWriting  5 місяців тому +1

      Stick with it! Apply this stuff in editing if you want to, but keep going, you’ll be glad you did.

  • @mohakrokade3788
    @mohakrokade3788 2 роки тому +2

    I'm still not quite sure i want to write novels or not. But, i think i can write short stories better than anything. Still confused which genre suits me.. Fantasy, Supernatural, or Mystery thrillers. What do you think?
    @Kieren Westwood

    • @KierenWestwoodWriting
      @KierenWestwoodWriting  2 роки тому

      There's absolutely nothing wrong with writing short fiction and not novels. I've loved spending the last couple of years on it, and a lot of time before that too. Writing will always be at it's most fun and rewarding when you follow the stories that you're excited by, in my opinion. That goes for genre too. My advice (for whatever that's worth!) would be to write the story first and worry about what genre it is later. That's what I'm going to try to do anyway. Best of luck with your stories!