You need to go watch this video from Primal Rights!
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- Опубліковано 22 чер 2024
- Video Link: • This ONE thing, can ru...
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A few thoughts come to mind after watching the Primal video.
Cortina doesn't clean his brass, and his target speaks for itself.
Primal trims and deburs after final tumbling. This leaves the possibility of the neck contamination.
Then there's neolube to iron out oxidation and other miscues
Agree, it doesn't make sense to me to trim and chamfer after final cleaning. Why would anyone want brass shavings in the neck while seating, and going down the bore?
Actually if it's anything like other metal working....it's cleanest when it's freshly cut ....Unless there's lots of cutting lube used which I don't think they do on an autodod......
Yep watched it minutes after it uploaded
Rice does not clean the carbon out from inside your cases. I know Greg said don't over clean them. The name of the game in reloading is consistency. The carbon build up inside the cases on once fired brass vs the carbon build up on let's say 12 times fired brass is not the same .
Also annealing brass with 1x carbon build up vs annealing brass with 12x carbon build up will not anneal the same . The carbon can act as an insulation. Stainless steel wet tumbling will remove the carbon build up from inside the cases , keeping things consistent.
I've tested this as well. Case volume changes over time with internal carbon built up. So if you're dialing in a load with new cases your case volume will change as they are fired over time. Unless you clean out the carbon with wet tumbling. HOWEVER! you must then lube the necks because the layer of carbon inside the neck acts as a sort of dry lubricant. Squeeky clean necks are not good for peak accuracy. I use pure graphite suspended in 99% iso alcohol applied with a foam q-tip. Within a few minutes the ISO flashes off and you have a fine layer of graphite left behind. As a side point I found that dry tumbling did not remove the oxide layer fully from flame annealing which is what started me wet tumbling in the first place. Which is where I found out and tested that squeeky clean necks shoot less accurately in my benchrest rifle.
@@MMBRM - what method did you use to determine the reduction in volume due to carbon build-up?
@@rsf5898 Well, I first noticed this issue when full sizing brass which had been dry tumbled. The carbon will flake off the walls of the case and if you tap the case on a table neck side down you get a small pile of powder residue. While I didn't quantify the exact amount it seemed to get worse with brass that had more firings. When I got my wet tumbler because of the oxide residue from flame annealing I took those cases and weighed 20 of them(with a scientific scale capable of 0.02gn resolution), did a water volume test with 10 and then marked them with a permanent marker. After wet tumbling the weight went down and the water volume went up on every single case.
Devil's advocate here......but I've heard that cleaning with the steel pins can cause damage....Can't remember if it was to the case mouth or primer pockets....
But I know I've seen it in more then one spot....
@@prone_wolf8871 I’ve been cleaning with stainless steel wet tumbling for about 7 years now , I’ve never had any damage to my cases . Some will say it peens the edge of the case mouth , yes it does but it disappears once you trim them .
The beauty of cleaning with stainless tumbling is that your cases does not accumulate with carbon , so they stay consistent. Consistency is the name of the game when it comes to reloading . If you do not remove the carbon build up inside your cases , there is no consistency in the process and you have variables . Again 1x fired brass has less carbon build up than 12x fired brass if you do not remove the carbon .
I have yet to see any correlation to accuracy proven on target from those amp graphs. As in no one has ever shown in statistically relevant testing that having a better graph or overall lower seating force results in better accuracy. In fact in the limited testing I've seen where proper brass prep was used and people separated the bad(largest deviation from mean) plots out and shot them compared to the best they found no difference in group size. Obviously it would be preferable to control that variable if possible but the test shown in the video just shows that seating forces have a better SD using the described method. Not that this will make your gun more accurate. It is possible that it may though.
Already saw it! Makes perfect sense
Already watched it yesterday. Thanks for referencing it!
Thank you for the channel.
I am new in the F-Class, half of my knowledge is from this channel.
As deep in the weeds as Greg goes on things, I tend to agree with what he says, he points out some good stuff on his channel. Whether a person does all the stuff he points out is up to them, but in watching his stuff, a person can at least be aware of the issues he talks about, go back and revisit them and try something to see what helps.
Are you able to share your recommended order of operations with us?
I am starting to re-think my approach to inside neck reaming and outside neck turning.
I saw it when it first came out and it was an eye opener on how the order of things can and does effect accuracy🙌
Already saw the video, agree wholeheartedly.
Keith, it was a marketing video on selling his rice. He proved in his own video that a nylon brush is all you need. It was more consistent than a bronze brush or rice. This was his results.
This is the guy i argued with on why you shouldn't use a broze brush down the bore. He didn't seem to grasp the concept of fire cracking in that a bronze brush wipes away the micro burrs on the edges of the fire cracking making them bigger. What do you think Keith do you use a bronze brush too? BTW...doesn’t everyone anneal first?
Thank you for the video. Could you please add the link to the Greg's video?
Primal Rights is the channel name.
@@yukon4545 thank you.
ua-cam.com/video/crp3U5Gt9to/v-deo.html
I guess that's the one. Embedded links do not appear in web Browser that remove ads in UA-cam.
Was wondering about your thoughts about his video "does wind even matter at 100 yards", this was the first I'd heard that wind could affect POI vertically , had always assumed it was only a horizontal displacement.
I have a story-board up on how Aerodynamic jump affects short range zero, load development, and long-range no-wind zeros. I should have that one done in a couple of weeks. I have a different way of looking at it that may be useful for shooters.
@@winninginthewind Looking forward to it !
A bit overdramatic, but I appreciate new information, and being pushed to reevaluate. That said, I like clean cases and wet tumble right after depriming, and see nothing wrong with that. Maybe I should tumble again after annealing, but we don't know how clean the neck should be. What is "over cleaning?" And it wasn't shown that increased amp press seating force translates to problems down range. Maybe 3 or 5 passes over the nylon brush would yield results just as good. Lots of unanswered questions. Love your channel, Keith!
Do you still use Neo-Lube?
I’ve noticed one thing with smaller calibers , it tends to give you more reloading consistency and precision on group size . I’d love to see this same testing on 6.5mm or bigger .
My fellow range member told me the opposite and I believe it, smaller calibers are less forgiving. A larger caliber such as a 308 if you are .02 grains off it won't be a big deal. On a 223 cartridge that .02 grain difference in powder is much greater because the total grains for the cartridge is smaller.
Mass of the rifle system and Kinetic Energy of the cartridge are the big factors. Heavier rifle + Low energy cartridge = Smallest groups. Powerful rifle + lightweight rifle = larger groups. This is correlated with hunting rifles vs. BR rifles.
Small calibers are definitely more forgiving and have greater inherent accuracy while requiring less skill to shoot well due to recoil. A 6mm with a slow twist barrel(1-14 to 1-16) and light(64-68gn) bullets has been king of 100-200 yard accuracy for decades. It's not even particularly close.
So the question for you is, do you use milled rice in a tumbler?
I use corncob media. I also use a lanolin based sizing lube. The effect is the same as Greg described.
@@winninginthewind Does your media come pre-treated? Most I've seen does. What lanolin based sizing lube do you use if I may ask? Thanks. Always like being a sponge when it comes to you pros
@@winninginthewind I went through a phase years ago when I wet tumbled because I like shiny brass and always cleaned before sizing but then had to clean again in a tumbler after sizing and that was taking too much time. For awhile I used that stuff called "Froggy's lube." Graphite suspended in alcohol in my squeaky clean cases and I don't recall every having issues with long range accuracy but I'm only a hunter, not a competitor but was very satisfied with LOW ES numbers.
N.E.O.L.U.B.E. and done.
He never actually detailed his order of operations, asise from annealing first. I asked in the comments and he said I have to go back and watch his old videos to get that information.
He gives most steps in the video: Anneal, size (Body and neck), tumble, seat bullets. He's stated that he trims after sizing, as per usual standard.
@@Iscariot18 Does he tumble before or after trimming?
@@greasegun1313 Don't know, but can't imagine why he'd trim after tumbling.
All I know is ask the guy who has the 1000 yd record for the smallest group with a 300 W.S m.
Very impotent, what part ? first half , second ?
How does eating one's body weight in testicles help reloading performance?
Some hairy dude on steroids was screaming about primal rights and eating a massive pile of organs.
Google sent me somewhere weird, didnt it?
I had to laugh at that one!
It's a shame he mixed good experimental science with theology. The dissonance between the two concepts made my tinnitus worse.
Facts and fantasy