Fascinating window into the world of a professional artist! Over in UA-cam-land it often seems like the numbers are all imaginary and arbitrary, and its rare to get a meaningful look at what the various income streams look like for anyone else. Glad to see "this is nice but I absolutely cannot count on it to be consistent" is a more common outlook on some income streams than I assumed! -B
Really appreciate that composers in media are providing very accessible examples of what their financial division looks like in the current landscape of revenue channels (with expenditure analysis).
such a helpful video. I'm a music student studying Film Scoring and Composition right now and it's been my experience that things like income and expenses, which are some of the most practical things for a composer to be aware of, are things that we are either taught about once or twice in vague detail or aren't even covered at all. it's super helpful to get a breakdown like this about what exactly the process is like for a working composer in the industry. Thanks again for a great video Austin!
That's what's scary about this kind of work. I'm bad at math, doing taxes and stuff must be a nightmare. Pretty much scares me from doing anything beyond a reg job. 😂
Thanks for sharing. I have a very similar breakdown except my royalties is the vast majority of my income due to the fact I work entirely in film instead of games like you. My "fee" for some of these films is very small. The fee almost means nothing to me and often goes to help pay for the production of the score (ie. live soloists, etc). The distribution and royalties from ASCAP are everything and as you mention it is inconsistent at best. I have not done a clear book making breakdown like this, I probably should. Again-- thanks for doing all this. Insightful!
@@awintory Thanks, that one has already changed. I moved the money from TSLY to QQQY (both with a 60% yield monthly dividend) that is much more stable with value. Tesla lease and insurance is still covered 100% with nothing out of my pocket. Risky but monitored.
Thank you for sharing about this!! It really means a lot to all of us new composers trying to turn our passion into a career, and I personally found it really educational just to see it broken down so simply. I'll definitely be sharing this with several friends and colleagues who could benefit. 😁
Such an informative/precise presentation--nice! WAY more interesting than I expected it'd be (just given the nature of topic). Thank you for sharing :-) And bonus 'props" for the Thai Khaen, just sneaking into frame!!🤘
Thank you for doing this! really! It's great to have a better frame of reference! I had expected royalties to be... bigger. Concert rentals too! I thought that one would be way bigger.
This is super insightful! Thank you for sharing such a detailed breakdown with us, I'm trying to set up a budget to use once I graduate college, and this video is very helpful in putting the details into perspective.
Thank you for this! I’ve been a composing hobbyist most of my life, but considering trying to add it to my income stream and this is a really great breakdown of the business side of things that isn’t normally discussed. Thanks again!
Thank you for taking your time to share! I find your channel very informative and inspirational. Could you shine a little light on 'typical' deals that you or other composers make with game producers concerning soundtrack releases? Is it a standard practice to divide that income between producers and composer (say 50/50 or other)? Do you always release soundtracks on your own or perhaps producers what to have a control over it, as they are the main investors and owners of a given game or film? And the last question - is hiring musicians and orchestras always on your side (in a form of a package)?
It's very hard to summarize a 'typical' deal for me. They're all very bespoke, custom and one-off to fit the mutual needs of the client and myself. There are so many variables (how much time do I have? How much music is needed? How complex will it be to produce the music? etc). As such the more 'fringe' aspects of the deal, like soundtrack albums, tend to be all over the place too. The most common under Work for Hire conditions is that they retain the lion's share of the OST income and pay you a royalty. Next most common (for me at least) has been total retention of the rights, and I keep it all. The least common is one in which I'm also paying out royalties.
Hmm, I thought the agent would be in charge of the PR too, but it seems they don't... Very instrcutive, your channel is a treasure trove of useful stuff Austin, thank you for making your stuff so down to earth... it has helped me in ways I did not expect at the beginning. Love that you used ABZU to make the video FLOW seamlessly ^^
Agents are responsible for closing the deal, helping foster relationships, etc. Their main focus is on the agreement negotiation above all. PR is a totally separate discipline involving coordinating media interviews, events/seminars, awards shows and all that
I didn't even know there were still opportunities to see your work performed until you mentioned it here, and you're coming to Concord??? Nobody ever comes to the 'Shire! Count me in, I can't wait!
wish more people would have the same kind of transparency, i bet it's super helpful to all composers in training. really interesting even for someone like me who has nothing to do with music!
I'm glad to have seen this video, this is great insight! out of all the great composers in the world, if I were to name a handful your name would always be called upon due to how much journey left a mark, I hope you are doing well! PS. *Cough* Wyoming has no state tax *Cough* My parents left Orange County, California and decided to retire here *Cough* :^) middle of nowhere though
I’ve been considering choosing composition as my career, and this was very helpful in making that decision. While I love making music and music as a whole is probably my favorite thing, I also would like to be able to live a comfortable life without much financial stress. I guess I still have some thinking to do.
I hope it didn't make you feel discouraged. Please remember that this is simply how I have my own finances configured, and also after nearly 20 years in the industry. Everyone is different, including at the different chapters of their career
@@awintoryThanks for your response! I’m probably going to end up pursuing what brings me joy, and I’ve yet to find something that I enjoy as much as music. The likes of you, Darren Korb, and Chris Christodoulou have all made me really fall in love with composition as a whole, and if I can find the determination, I’m going to put in all the work necessary to make such a career work.
It's amazing how much I did NOT learn in college as a music major (I think they were just more classically oriented so you were expected to find an orchestral/military job and not run your own business, haha)
Yeah I think most schools lean really hard into the aspirational, without really characterizing it that way. As such it simply comes off as "you will succeed and have a glorious career!"
Cost of living at only 17.1% is quite the perspective. I mean, that's the part your personal fee NEEDS to cover or stuff starts breaking down. But the remainder is a huge chunk, so you're processing the majority of your incoming money for other people to be the recipient of. If all that money goes through you, how does taxes deal with that? Would it be better for your taxes if you weren't the one dealing with the packages?
It's less about taxes and more about relationships and efficiency. I'm setup as a pass-through entity for so many musicians, and regularly hire them. If they were invoicing every company that hires me they'd have to wait longer, etc. Plus they trust me and I pay quickly, combined with the frequency of my projects they cut me better rates. Better for my employer too as a result
Thank you for such an insightful video, Austin! I'm curious: are those expense percentages set in stone or do they fluctuate from year to year? In other words: do you intentionally set aside 17% of your income every year for cost-of-living expenses, or does that number (and/or others) change depending on yearly income?
Very interesting. Thank you for sharing! Just out of curiosity: how can "cost of living" be at 17.1% while the total wages for two assistants (one full time) are at 5.7 % ? I understand that there are differences in salary based on experience in the industry, but I still hope they are doing fine :)
There is much that gets obscured by these broad percentages, like when I absorb some of their expenses. They are fine, yes, and deeply appreciated. If they feel differently we discuss and evaluate. Like all relationships
@@awintory I thought so! It just seemed a little odd to me at a glance. I hope that I haven't offended you. It's great to hear you having a positive relationship with your coworkers!
Thanks for this, very interesting and informative. If I may request a topic for a future video that expands on this. I'd love to hear some of your thoughts and experience on what to charge a client as a composer and how to break it down. I have recently had to decide for the first time what my rates should be and make that difficult and scary step from working for free and on very low rates. I did a lot of research, looked at data, there's a really good video on it from GDC but that was from 2014. It's quite a complicated topic and also can be quite uncomfortable to talk about. I'm also very interested in your thoughts on charging per minute of written music, which seems to be the standard way but doesn't really consider how much work goes into writing each minute of music.
Some day I'm going to make a video why I don't like the "$ / minute" model. But in the meantime, I would google around going rates. It would seem to me that anything below $1000/min is common for indies, startups, beginners etc. I've seen everything in that range, down to $0. $1000-$2000 seems to be a lot of mid-range titles and/or people still somewhat early in their career. $2000 and beyond is more common for veterans and/or AAA productions. And that number can go into the stratosphere, depending on the situation
Out of topic, but austin: What did you think of the hogwarts legacy soundtrack? I'm wondering, as I am currently immersing myself in it and I find myself fascinated with the subtleties and occasional allusions to other video games / movies. Grateful for this video and the things you do for your community, I wish you a great day.❤
I haven't spent huge amounts of time with the game so it's tough to say from the outside. The sheer scope of that score is impressive (Chuck told me there's something like 35 hours of music?!)
This may be a silly question, but I'm fairly new to composition and was curious to see the cost in your expenses breakdown. What kind of work do you do in your studio? I have been composing in my office at home and was wondering what the studio's full purpose is. Do you record a lot of material for your work in your studio, such as the piano clicks in your Aliens soundtrack, which would warrant renting out the studio? Or do you use the space as a place to work outside of your own home? Thanks!
My studio is 75% a place for writing, 10% a space for meetings and 15% a space for recordings. Mostly I prefer to have somewhere I can work away from home, both for clarity of focus while composing but likewise to be more present at home. Separation helps me.
Fascinating window into the world of a professional artist!
Over in UA-cam-land it often seems like the numbers are all imaginary and arbitrary, and its rare to get a meaningful look at what the various income streams look like for anyone else. Glad to see "this is nice but I absolutely cannot count on it to be consistent" is a more common outlook on some income streams than I assumed!
-B
Haha yeah, grateful to not depend on it!
Do you mean artists don't live from love and fresh water?
Dang! Incredibly precious to have people being transparent about this topic.
Or from "This will give you exposure" statements.
Love and fresh water are nonetheless greatly appreciated!
Really appreciate that composers in media are providing very accessible examples of what their financial division looks like in the current landscape of revenue channels (with expenditure analysis).
why did I watch this in full even tho I am neither a composer nor am I musically inclined 🤣
Glutton for punishment
Super cool you and Anne are sharing this kind of thing. There's a lot to this that I never think of/consider. Thanks for the insight!
I saw the title and was wondering where I had seen something like this before 🧐 then I remembered AKD’s. Thanks for sharing
such a helpful video. I'm a music student studying Film Scoring and Composition right now and it's been my experience that things like income and expenses, which are some of the most practical things for a composer to be aware of, are things that we are either taught about once or twice in vague detail or aren't even covered at all. it's super helpful to get a breakdown like this about what exactly the process is like for a working composer in the industry. Thanks again for a great video Austin!
Very happy to help! I definitely think there's not a lot of sharing of this sort of thing for younger folks / students.
What a cool and rare glimpse into how the sausage is made. Great video Austin, keep up the great work!
That's what's scary about this kind of work. I'm bad at math, doing taxes and stuff must be a nightmare. Pretty much scares me from doing anything beyond a reg job. 😂
Thanks for sharing. I have a very similar breakdown except my royalties is the vast majority of my income due to the fact I work entirely in film instead of games like you. My "fee" for some of these films is very small. The fee almost means nothing to me and often goes to help pay for the production of the score (ie. live soloists, etc). The distribution and royalties from ASCAP are everything and as you mention it is inconsistent at best. I have not done a clear book making breakdown like this, I probably should. Again-- thanks for doing all this. Insightful!
It'd be great if you did! Your recent stock market post was very interesting!
@@awintory Thanks, that one has already changed. I moved the money from TSLY to QQQY (both with a 60% yield monthly dividend) that is much more stable with value. Tesla lease and insurance is still covered 100% with nothing out of my pocket. Risky but monitored.
Thank you for sharing about this!! It really means a lot to all of us new composers trying to turn our passion into a career, and I personally found it really educational just to see it broken down so simply. I'll definitely be sharing this with several friends and colleagues who could benefit. 😁
Thank you Austin!
Such an informative/precise presentation--nice! WAY more interesting than I expected it'd be (just given the nature of topic). Thank you for sharing :-) And bonus 'props" for the Thai Khaen, just sneaking into frame!!🤘
Thank you Austin. It was very interesting to to get to know a bit of a composer's life in the US. Greetings from Warsaw! 😊
Thank you for doing this! really! It's great to have a better frame of reference! I had expected royalties to be... bigger. Concert rentals too! I thought that one would be way bigger.
A very eye-opening and insightful glimpse into sort of the fiscal skeleton of the composer's life.
This is super insightful! Thank you for sharing such a detailed breakdown with us, I'm trying to set up a budget to use once I graduate college, and this video is very helpful in putting the details into perspective.
Thanks for sharing this, Austin!
Fascinating look at the way it all works out. Thank you for sharing that. 🙂
Super interesting, as always! Thank you for the insight!
a an up and coming composer, thank you for this
Thank you for this! I’ve been a composing hobbyist most of my life, but considering trying to add it to my income stream and this is a really great breakdown of the business side of things that isn’t normally discussed. Thanks again!
That's really generous of you to share thus with us:)Really appreciate it
Thank you for taking your time to share! I find your channel very informative and inspirational.
Could you shine a little light on 'typical' deals that you or other composers make with game producers concerning soundtrack releases? Is it a standard practice to divide that income between producers and composer (say 50/50 or other)? Do you always release soundtracks on your own or perhaps producers what to have a control over it, as they are the main investors and owners of a given game or film?
And the last question - is hiring musicians and orchestras always on your side (in a form of a package)?
It's very hard to summarize a 'typical' deal for me. They're all very bespoke, custom and one-off to fit the mutual needs of the client and myself. There are so many variables (how much time do I have? How much music is needed? How complex will it be to produce the music? etc).
As such the more 'fringe' aspects of the deal, like soundtrack albums, tend to be all over the place too. The most common under Work for Hire conditions is that they retain the lion's share of the OST income and pay you a royalty. Next most common (for me at least) has been total retention of the rights, and I keep it all. The least common is one in which I'm also paying out royalties.
@@awintorythank you for your elaborate answer!
And let this new year be even better than the previous one 😊
Thank you for the insights! Much appreciated!
Thank you for doing this!
I used to want to be a game designer, but recently, I've been shifting more to wanting a career as a composer, so this was a helpful video.
Hmm, I thought the agent would be in charge of the PR too, but it seems they don't... Very instrcutive, your channel is a treasure trove of useful stuff Austin, thank you for making your stuff so down to earth... it has helped me in ways I did not expect at the beginning. Love that you used ABZU to make the video FLOW seamlessly ^^
Agents are responsible for closing the deal, helping foster relationships, etc. Their main focus is on the agreement negotiation above all. PR is a totally separate discipline involving coordinating media interviews, events/seminars, awards shows and all that
Delphinus Delphis my beloved
Thank you for your insight!!
Thank you for your great work, never enough paid!❤
You're one of my favourites so that was definitely interesting! 🤓
Hmm... Of course, this is motivation for me.
I didn't even know there were still opportunities to see your work performed until you mentioned it here, and you're coming to Concord??? Nobody ever comes to the 'Shire! Count me in, I can't wait!
thanks austin!
Thank you!
wish more people would have the same kind of transparency, i bet it's super helpful to all composers in training. really interesting even for someone like me who has nothing to do with music!
I don’t know man… do you even know what you’re talking about? 😜
Clearly not
I didn’t see “exposure” listed as an income stream. 😉
The most precious commodity!
Hey man, nice video. Transparency like this is ever more rare, specially with the gig economy in full rage.
Also, did you like math in school?
I did enjoy math in school!
I'm glad to have seen this video, this is great insight!
out of all the great composers in the world, if I were to name a handful your name would always be called upon due to how much journey left a mark, I hope you are doing well!
PS. *Cough* Wyoming has no state tax *Cough* My parents left Orange County, California and decided to retire here *Cough* :^) middle of nowhere though
Washington state and Nevada also each have no state income tax ... a fact I ponder frequently ...
I’ve been considering choosing composition as my career, and this was very helpful in making that decision. While I love making music and music as a whole is probably my favorite thing, I also would like to be able to live a comfortable life without much financial stress. I guess I still have some thinking to do.
I hope it didn't make you feel discouraged. Please remember that this is simply how I have my own finances configured, and also after nearly 20 years in the industry. Everyone is different, including at the different chapters of their career
@@awintoryThanks for your response! I’m probably going to end up pursuing what brings me joy, and I’ve yet to find something that I enjoy as much as music. The likes of you, Darren Korb, and Chris Christodoulou have all made me really fall in love with composition as a whole, and if I can find the determination, I’m going to put in all the work necessary to make such a career work.
It's amazing how much I did NOT learn in college as a music major (I think they were just more classically oriented so you were expected to find an orchestral/military job and not run your own business, haha)
Of course, they didn't bother to tell anyone just how rare those jobs actually are.
Yeah I think most schools lean really hard into the aspirational, without really characterizing it that way. As such it simply comes off as "you will succeed and have a glorious career!"
Cost of living at only 17.1% is quite the perspective. I mean, that's the part your personal fee NEEDS to cover or stuff starts breaking down. But the remainder is a huge chunk, so you're processing the majority of your incoming money for other people to be the recipient of. If all that money goes through you, how does taxes deal with that? Would it be better for your taxes if you weren't the one dealing with the packages?
It's less about taxes and more about relationships and efficiency. I'm setup as a pass-through entity for so many musicians, and regularly hire them. If they were invoicing every company that hires me they'd have to wait longer, etc. Plus they trust me and I pay quickly, combined with the frequency of my projects they cut me better rates. Better for my employer too as a result
Thank you for such an insightful video, Austin! I'm curious: are those expense percentages set in stone or do they fluctuate from year to year? In other words: do you intentionally set aside 17% of your income every year for cost-of-living expenses, or does that number (and/or others) change depending on yearly income?
This is descriptive, not prescriptive. I simply analyzed my 2023 accounting. Each year it evolves a bit
Very interesting. Thank you for sharing! Just out of curiosity: how can "cost of living" be at 17.1% while the total wages for two assistants (one full time) are at 5.7 % ? I understand that there are differences in salary based on experience in the industry, but I still hope they are doing fine :)
There is much that gets obscured by these broad percentages, like when I absorb some of their expenses.
They are fine, yes, and deeply appreciated. If they feel differently we discuss and evaluate. Like all relationships
@@awintory I thought so! It just seemed a little odd to me at a glance. I hope that I haven't offended you. It's great to hear you having a positive relationship with your coworkers!
Thanks for this, very interesting and informative.
If I may request a topic for a future video that expands on this. I'd love to hear some of your thoughts and experience on what to charge a client as a composer and how to break it down. I have recently had to decide for the first time what my rates should be and make that difficult and scary step from working for free and on very low rates. I did a lot of research, looked at data, there's a really good video on it from GDC but that was from 2014. It's quite a complicated topic and also can be quite uncomfortable to talk about. I'm also very interested in your thoughts on charging per minute of written music, which seems to be the standard way but doesn't really consider how much work goes into writing each minute of music.
Some day I'm going to make a video why I don't like the "$ / minute" model. But in the meantime, I would google around going rates. It would seem to me that anything below $1000/min is common for indies, startups, beginners etc. I've seen everything in that range, down to $0.
$1000-$2000 seems to be a lot of mid-range titles and/or people still somewhat early in their career. $2000 and beyond is more common for veterans and/or AAA productions. And that number can go into the stratosphere, depending on the situation
But again, I think the entire pricing model is a bad one so take all that with a grain of salt :)
Austin, you forgot to mention how much you're paid in exposure.
I charge so much for exposure too
Out of topic, but austin:
What did you think of the hogwarts legacy soundtrack? I'm wondering, as I am currently immersing myself in it and I find myself fascinated with the subtleties and occasional allusions to other video games / movies.
Grateful for this video and the things you do for your community, I wish you a great day.❤
I haven't spent huge amounts of time with the game so it's tough to say from the outside. The sheer scope of that score is impressive (Chuck told me there's something like 35 hours of music?!)
This may be a silly question, but I'm fairly new to composition and was curious to see the cost in your expenses breakdown. What kind of work do you do in your studio? I have been composing in my office at home and was wondering what the studio's full purpose is. Do you record a lot of material for your work in your studio, such as the piano clicks in your Aliens soundtrack, which would warrant renting out the studio? Or do you use the space as a place to work outside of your own home? Thanks!
My studio is 75% a place for writing, 10% a space for meetings and 15% a space for recordings. Mostly I prefer to have somewhere I can work away from home, both for clarity of focus while composing but likewise to be more present at home. Separation helps me.
At which university did you study?
NYU and USC
I just assume that I get half of all of your fees.
Righteously, yes
Essentially full time? You hiding something for tax purposes Austin? 🕵️♂️😮
Absolutely. And nothing is a more cunning tax scheme than being publicly transparent!