Thank you for a well thought out analysis of a comic I colored some 27 years ago. I won't speak to Mike Carlin's and Dan Jurgens' efforts, but I can't disagree with you regarding the color. Makes me want to time travel back and tell my younger self to make better color choices.
Dan Jurgens' script is pretty good for what this comic is, but I really wish Jon Bogdanove had drawn this final issue. He knew how to depict larger-than-life characters and dynamic action scenes.
Here's the thing with Jurgens - he was writing and pencilling this as well as participating in the editorial coordination, AND he was also writing and pencilling Justice League of America. So he did this entire thing, before, during, and after the Death event while writing and drawing 2 monthly books. That doesn't take away from the observations you guys did which are mostly accurate, but the man simply didn't have enough time to do it to the best of his abilities.
Younger people might not be aware the amount of attention this got from the mainstream media. They really convinced the public that this was gonna be their last chance to buy a Superman comic.
Here's the thing: in regards to the "book for children" thing thing both as criticism AND defense, I present Superman: The Animated Series. That show was inarguably designed for the same target demographic that this storyline was aimed at, but they still managed to have episodes like "Apokolips...Now!" and "Legacy" that hit 20x harder than this, while still operating in the children's media arena.
“Listen Dan, I know we’ve only got 22 pages to sell the epic death of the most iconic superhero in the history of the medium, but the fans are going to want to know- where is Bloodwynd and how does he feel?”
I liked this comic, it worked for me. I liked the dialogue and the art. Idc make fun of me if you want but this got me emotional, and I think it’s a great book. His lover his pal his parents and his companions losing him, got to me. And that final unfold was awesome, cape hung up at half mast, along with the sacrifice of a hero to save his friends and his city
My big problem with this even though I love great fights in comics, is Superman in the late 1950s all the way to the early 1980s would always outsmart or find some solution to the problem instead punching the villains to submission. I love your wrestling kayfabe comparison.
Keep in mind the first four pages in this trade are the last page from 4 different issues from the Superman titles of the time. I think the more recent trades include the full issues. The introduction of Doomsday took a month to happen.
Maybe we'd look back on it differently if Doomsday (at this point) had a personality or motivation or origin or ANYTHING to him. In this it he may as well been a Trade Federation Droid.
The first pages with doomsday hitting the wall were last pages od different issues. The werent pages from the same issue. Only in trade they were positioned this way.
Classic story that made comic books mainstream news in a time before graphic novels were trendy in bookstores. On tilting the art for issue #75, remember the editor was Carlin who dealt with Liefeld on Hawk and Dove #5.
Another good battle I wish you'd cover is the two-part Kirby Thing vs. Hulk, where there was genuine collateral damage and superheroes in the hospital. But that's the FF; I just don't think this story works for Superman. I'm neither an expert nor a fan of his, but Superman is more of a symbol, an institution, with the entire history of superhero comics on his shoulders. I think Alan Moore's "last Superman story" was truer to the concept, with an emphasis on that history and the character's moral gravitas. Superman does not end in a bloody battle with a dumb brute, but by making a moral choice that he could not justify his continued existence. To me, it's a more meaningful sacrifice that is truer to this monumental character.
I knew this was going to be good the second I saw the title! I was six when this book came out and it still holds a lot of impact for me. I'm glad you didn't completely shit on it, but you're so right about how much better it could have been.
This event was so huge that news about it made it to newspapers here in Egypt. The Death of Superman was the biggest and most prolific death of a fictional character since Sherlock Holmes had his fateful encounter with Professor Moriarty at Reichenbach Falls in Conan Doyle's The Adventure of the Final Problem.
It tells you something about DC management at the time that they knew this was going to reach a huge audience, but they didn’t bother to make something special that might turn some of those people into comics readers.
Love the CSI/NCIS/SVU prep! This was a unique moment in DC’s history-shame they bungled everything that came after-he didn’t die; he just took a wee nap 😴! Happiest of New Years, Gentlemen! 🖖♾
Ya know who would have been great artists to draw this book? Either Erik Larsen or Marc Silvestri. Those guys would have really sold the epic destruction needed here.
@@blindboy118 Yeah, the whole page is a bit of an incest fest with the little girl wearing the WB owned Bugs Bunny shirt as well. So much 90s corporate "synergy" cringe.
Always felt that in his first appearance, Doomsday was meant to be DC’s version of the hulk. Grey, pounding his way out of an underground vault, like how Rick Jones used to lock the Hulk up in. I was 21 when it came out. I loved it, and was a BIG fan of the Superman titles beforehand. Reign of Superman was a ton of fun, and I excitedly looked forward to every installment and ran to the store almost every week ( which is pretty impressive when you realize I was young, driving, out of school making good money and dating). This coincided with comic stores EVERYWHERE. I love Bogdanove’s updated Schuster Superman. Like everybody mentioned, the fist punch scenes work a lot better spread over 4 issues. Great stuff. The sequel was terrible, with a ridiculous overthought origin for Doomsday. Doomsday made a great appearance in the JLU animated series
I remember early into my adult comic reading ventures thinking "i should finally just give superman a try" and finding this used tpb on the shelf at my local bookoff. I was actually kind of pissed off after reading it. It just felt like a shitty version of a DBZ fight with tons of static pin ups of two dudes punching each other. It's honestly too bad because before the fight breaks out, the tension was building up rather decently with all the jobbers in the beginning of the comic getting their asses whooped and the stakes constantly piling up. Also, the draftsmanship is very sound but like you guys said, it just needs dynamic tweaking and better choreography to make it fun to look at. Luckily, that same night I also bought a used Batman: Year One that totally made up for it.
I'd love to see the Gaiman/Buckingham/D'Isreali Marvel/Miracleman issues get the Kayfabe treatment sometime, extremely underappreciated comics with some wild art, especially the Andy Warhol issue
....Since it was his Superman that bit the bullet, they SHOULD have let John Byrne do the nasty deed. At least 'ole Kal would have had a more EPIC tale. Oh well, comics. Great rundown/autopsy gentlemen. PEACE, and God bless. Happy New Year.
Then you get into the "Death and Life Of Superman" an they retcon the way they "killed" another, with a mutual hard punch that killed both Supes and Doomsday. Then... Johnathan Kent's spirit somehow guides Superman back to life.... I was a kid and thought that felt like a cop out.
I borrowed (& never returned) the tpb from my neighbor & read it every day after school for a year. They did a good job of gradually increasing the bleakness/dread of the story to the climax with the bigger panels etc. The panel where the gas station explodes showing Supes, Doom & Maxima airborne in silhouette for example
@16:30 it's like Mcfarlane's Spiderman uppercutting Hulk's nuts. Was the 90s an era of subtle genital mutilation in comics? Was it a link my young mind was sleeping on?
I was reading Savage Dragon fight with Damien Darklord, there's some real sense of destruction... those pages are really unexciting, sadly. And where's the power of the hits? I liked it but every issue of youngblood has more energy then this end fight. 🤨
More "How to draw the Marvel Way" stuff... So many of those shots are 'mid-impact' shots... If you want emotional impact, you do before or after the actual blow. I was never fond of this one. I like the inks...
Glad you pulled out Miracleman. Definitely an overlooked masterpiece. That fight you referenced is the be all end all of super human fights. When the Death of Superman didn't stack up to that I didn't buy it.
i'd love to see Mike Deodato Jr. redraw this entire book.. he could bring life to the ideas you suggest to make this book have more impact. I had the same problems with how shitty the action was framed when i first read this in the 90's.
I'm impressed, fellas. A TERRIFIC breakdown of a not so terrific comic. Dan Jurgens is a great artist, but the composition in this book is incredibly flawed. I understand deadlines, but DC knew this was a guaranteed smash hit and this is what you deliver?? And Carlin is a MUCH better editor than this, but I guess he phoned it in too. Regardless, it put asses into the seats and a LOT of them weren't regular readers. Sadly, this sure didn't change that, it's EXACTLY the type of comic book that the general public perceives comic books to be,
Thank you for a well thought out analysis of a comic I colored some 27 years ago. I won't speak to Mike Carlin's and Dan Jurgens' efforts, but I can't disagree with you regarding the color. Makes me want to time travel back and tell my younger self to make better color choices.
Dan Jurgens' script is pretty good for what this comic is, but I really wish Jon Bogdanove had drawn this final issue. He knew how to depict larger-than-life characters and dynamic action scenes.
I'll second that, his work was the most impactful to me too.
Was just going to say this.
that was my exact thought.
Here's the thing with Jurgens - he was writing and pencilling this as well as participating in the editorial coordination, AND he was also writing and pencilling Justice League of America. So he did this entire thing, before, during, and after the Death event while writing and drawing 2 monthly books. That doesn't take away from the observations you guys did which are mostly accurate, but the man simply didn't have enough time to do it to the best of his abilities.
If you are the editor and know the situation then do something. Make the stuff the best possible, don't kill your people.
Younger people might not be aware the amount of attention this got from the mainstream media. They really convinced the public that this was gonna be their last chance to buy a Superman comic.
Here's the thing: in regards to the "book for children" thing thing both as criticism AND defense, I present Superman: The Animated Series. That show was inarguably designed for the same target demographic that this storyline was aimed at, but they still managed to have episodes like "Apokolips...Now!" and "Legacy" that hit 20x harder than this, while still operating in the children's media arena.
“Listen Dan, I know we’ve only got 22 pages to sell the epic death of the most iconic superhero in the history of the medium, but the fans are going to want to know- where is Bloodwynd and how does he feel?”
I liked this comic, it worked for me. I liked the dialogue and the art. Idc make fun of me if you want but this got me emotional, and I think it’s a great book. His lover his pal his parents and his companions losing him, got to me. And that final unfold was awesome, cape hung up at half mast, along with the sacrifice of a hero to save his friends and his city
My big problem with this even though I love great fights in comics, is Superman in the late 1950s all the way to the early 1980s would always outsmart or find some solution to the problem instead punching the villains to submission. I love your wrestling kayfabe comparison.
Jim rugg advocating for the doomsday Superman sack tap, my biggest laugh of 2020
Keep in mind the first four pages in this trade are the last page from 4 different issues from the Superman titles of the time. I think the more recent trades include the full issues. The introduction of Doomsday took a month to happen.
Maybe we'd look back on it differently if Doomsday (at this point) had a personality or motivation or origin or ANYTHING to him. In this it he may as well been a Trade Federation Droid.
I always wondered why the superheroes never just pooled their funds and hired Lobo...
1993 : the death of superman
2021 : the debt of superman
I just found this channel…. My god. I had no idea what I’d been missing from my life.
"Has he been dead for 2 hours? Is this rigamortis?" 😂😂😂
The first pages with doomsday hitting the wall were last pages od different issues. The werent pages from the same issue. Only in trade they were positioned this way.
Nothing says ‘90s like an Alien Autopsy
Classic story that made comic books mainstream news in a time before graphic novels were trendy in bookstores. On tilting the art for issue #75, remember the editor was Carlin who dealt with Liefeld on Hawk and Dove #5.
It's no "Death of Clark Kent!" 😅
Damn, this summed it up soooo good -- I didn't realize all the details you guys dropped as a kid, but, this is a design course, MAD THANKS!
Another good battle I wish you'd cover is the two-part Kirby Thing vs. Hulk, where there was genuine collateral damage and superheroes in the hospital. But that's the FF; I just don't think this story works for Superman. I'm neither an expert nor a fan of his, but Superman is more of a symbol, an institution, with the entire history of superhero comics on his shoulders. I think Alan Moore's "last Superman story" was truer to the concept, with an emphasis on that history and the character's moral gravitas. Superman does not end in a bloody battle with a dumb brute, but by making a moral choice that he could not justify his continued existence. To me, it's a more meaningful sacrifice that is truer to this monumental character.
I knew this was going to be good the second I saw the title! I was six when this book came out and it still holds a lot of impact for me. I'm glad you didn't completely shit on it, but you're so right about how much better it could have been.
Hilarious - thanks chaps for an amazing year of features and interviews. My Kayfabe-inspired copy of Real Deal is on my desk as I type!!
This event was so huge that news about it made it to newspapers here in Egypt.
The Death of Superman was the biggest and most prolific death of a fictional character since Sherlock Holmes had his fateful encounter with Professor Moriarty at Reichenbach Falls in Conan Doyle's The Adventure of the Final Problem.
The single-panel battle issue concept was inspired by Walt Simonson's final issue of The Mighty Thor where Thor fought Jormungandr.
I liked the artwork
Imagine Marvel era Kirby doing this: energy for generations to spare
The sight of you guys reading that with gloves on -- hilarious!
those gloves killed it lmfao!!!! Happy New Year Kayfabers'
Dying at the wrestling lingo thrown into the commentary lmao
It tells you something about DC management at the time that they knew this was going to reach a huge audience, but they didn’t bother to make something special that might turn some of those people into comics readers.
Totally agree! Great video guys, and happy new year!!
How wild is it that you had the DOOMSDAY episode lined up for today???
RIP DOOM
My grandmother gave me that paperback when it came out in spanish. I still have my copy.
Love the CSI/NCIS/SVU prep! This was a unique moment in DC’s history-shame they bungled everything that came after-he didn’t die; he just took a wee nap 😴! Happiest of New Years, Gentlemen! 🖖♾
Funniest Kayfabe episode? ! Dudes are killing it top notch
Ya know who would have been great artists to draw this book? Either Erik Larsen or Marc Silvestri. Those guys would have really sold the epic destruction needed here.
There wasn't even enough "sizzle" for me to read it back then!
Dude who did the ad copy for the WWF game never said the words "Video Gamemania" out loud.
Erik Larsen did an all double-page splash issue of Savage Dragon, which is more like what this big fight sequence should have been.
Great job on this video, guys! You'd make a great editor, Ed - DC Comics should call you up! Lol :) Happy New Year!
25:29 ROFL...so true. Like of all the hero character's to include a reaction from to add weight and meaning to the story, and they go with those?!?
Jurgens created Bloodwynd, so a little nepotism going on there.
@@blindboy118 Yeah, the whole page is a bit of an incest fest with the little girl wearing the WB owned Bugs Bunny shirt as well. So much 90s corporate "synergy" cringe.
Always felt that in his first appearance, Doomsday was meant to be DC’s version of the hulk. Grey, pounding his way out of an underground vault, like how Rick Jones used to lock the Hulk up in. I was 21 when it came out. I loved it, and was a BIG fan of the Superman titles beforehand. Reign of Superman was a ton of fun, and I excitedly looked forward to every installment and ran to the store almost every week ( which is pretty impressive when you realize I was young, driving, out of school making good money and dating). This coincided with comic stores EVERYWHERE. I love Bogdanove’s updated Schuster Superman. Like everybody mentioned, the fist punch scenes work a lot better spread over 4 issues. Great stuff. The sequel was terrible, with a ridiculous overthought origin for Doomsday. Doomsday made a great appearance in the JLU animated series
always exciting, happy new year guys.
"The Monster at The End of This Book" lmao Jim! I got that reference!
Jimmy Olsen had time to change his shirt three or four times during that scuffle!
Probably had to change his pants a few times too.
25:30 insane dunk
I always thought that nut punch page was meant to be some kinda flying headbutt. And if you flip it upside down, he looks like Bond-era Connery 😂
I genuinely laughed out loud when I started watching this video. What a crazy set of comics form the heady days of the 90’s.
I remember early into my adult comic reading ventures thinking "i should finally just give superman a try" and finding this used tpb on the shelf at my local bookoff.
I was actually kind of pissed off after reading it. It just felt like a shitty version of a DBZ fight with tons of static pin ups of two dudes punching each other. It's honestly too bad because before the fight breaks out, the tension was building up rather decently with all the jobbers in the beginning of the comic getting their asses whooped and the stakes constantly piling up. Also, the draftsmanship is very sound but like you guys said, it just needs dynamic tweaking and better choreography to make it fun to look at.
Luckily, that same night I also bought a used Batman: Year One that totally made up for it.
I'd love to see the Gaiman/Buckingham/D'Isreali Marvel/Miracleman issues get the Kayfabe treatment sometime, extremely underappreciated comics with some wild art, especially the Andy Warhol issue
the miracleman issue really drives it home. The thoughtfulness and intensity makes it hit so much harder.
As I remember it, The Comic Store in Lancaster, PA, USA let people buy 2 copies maximum. My 2nd copy is still sealed.
So cool. Never notices the pages count down the doomsday clock with the panels. Wow
Here we go! First time I'm happy to be spending my New Years Eve in surgery.
....Since it was his Superman that bit the bullet, they SHOULD have let John Byrne do the nasty deed. At least 'ole Kal would have had a more EPIC tale. Oh well, comics. Great rundown/autopsy gentlemen. PEACE, and God bless. Happy New Year.
Then you get into the "Death and Life Of Superman" an they retcon the way they "killed" another, with a mutual hard punch that killed both Supes and Doomsday. Then... Johnathan Kent's spirit somehow guides Superman back to life.... I was a kid and thought that felt like a cop out.
Bought a bunch of the Ed Piskor X-Men Grand Design books during an xmas sale!
Great review as always
Great video. Funny as hell.
I borrowed (& never returned) the tpb from my neighbor & read it every day after school for a year. They did a good job of gradually increasing the bleakness/dread of the story to the climax with the bigger panels etc. The panel where the gas station explodes showing Supes, Doom & Maxima airborne in silhouette for example
Watching this as I draw a Doomsday fight scene. I take your points.
just found this like 2 days ago, hype on the review
“... he wants to take some of that powder and go to the fortress of solitude ... “ -ED
hahahahaha the best
@16:30 it's like Mcfarlane's Spiderman uppercutting Hulk's nuts. Was the 90s an era of subtle genital mutilation in comics? Was it a link my young mind was sleeping on?
this book was supposed to pay off my student loans.......what happened?! : )
Fantastic review
Got my copy at Walmart!
Brining out that Miracleman issue.. just no competition man
Can you guys review Lifedeath and Uncanny X-Men 205?
I see a lot of DKR influence in some of the panels
I tried delivering a double axe handle with interlocking fingers ... it hurts like shit !
When/where you guys gonna do any coverage of wrestling and wrestling comics? You can never have enough overlap between the two.
Love the corner reference
Aye, yo...this review is hilarious 😂😆
You guys missed the Palookaville reference on page 4!! Lol
I was reading Savage Dragon fight with Damien Darklord, there's some real sense of destruction... those pages are really unexciting, sadly. And where's the power of the hits? I liked it but every issue of youngblood has more energy then this end fight. 🤨
Bought a beat up original tpb for the 6 year old boy in my life, he'll love it.
It has an in medias res opening.
I LOL’d so many times during this episode
Arguably the biggest angle of the 90s and it paid off!
20:30 Jimmy had time to change shirts?
More "How to draw the Marvel Way" stuff... So many of those shots are 'mid-impact' shots... If you want emotional impact, you do before or after the actual blow. I was never fond of this one. I like the inks...
_Please Hammer, Don't Hurt 'Em_
wish they would reprint the omnibus ! :)
Where the hell was every other superhero? Just sitting on the sidelines watching? lol
Glad you pulled out Miracleman. Definitely an overlooked masterpiece. That fight you referenced is the be all end all of super human fights. When the Death of Superman didn't stack up to that I didn't buy it.
The first graphic novel I ever bought.
Now compare this to Walt Simonson's Thor#380 Thor vs the World Serpent Jormungand. It is 500% better than this.
16:34 "it does look like that sort of" nah, it looks exactly like he's punching him in the dick
Gloves out! LOL
B R U T A L ! ! Gracias muchachos!! Amaizing WoW
armbands not wristbands
i'd love to see Mike Deodato Jr. redraw this entire book.. he could bring life to the ideas you suggest to make this book have more impact.
I had the same problems with how shitty the action was framed when i first read this in the 90's.
One of my best comics of all time. The DC team really knocked it out the Park 🖤
So what you will but if this comic didn’t exist I wouldn’t be reading now
DESTROY!
Street Angel is half off on Comixology
I'm impressed, fellas. A TERRIFIC breakdown of a not so terrific comic. Dan Jurgens is a great artist, but the composition in this book is incredibly flawed. I understand deadlines, but DC knew this was a guaranteed smash hit and this is what you deliver?? And Carlin is a MUCH better editor than this, but I guess he phoned it in too. Regardless, it put asses into the seats and a LOT of them weren't regular readers. Sadly, this sure didn't change that, it's EXACTLY the type of comic book that the general public perceives comic books to be,
Brakammm!