Galileo, Copernicus, Kepler could not predict eclipses nor planetary positions far into the future. Whereas Babylon since before 747 BC and C Ptolemy since AD 150 could. Not until Haily and Newton AD 1700 could we painfully produce more accurate results and only because we had 3000 years of geocentric data. Even NASA relies upon and cites Babylonian and ancient Chinese records.
this is incorrect because a new movement of the earth has been discovered that has changed out concept of the configuration of the solar system. it is called the tychos, our geoaxial binary system.
Thank you for finally helping me understand. I think maybe it 85% make sense to me now which is SO much more progress than I've made with other videos / explanations!
I am an audit and accounting student. I've recently grew an interest in astronomy so i've been watching videos related to it. Your video explained it really well. And if anyone sees my comment do recommend good beginners guide to astronomy.
2:40 So how is it at this point we are able to see Mars move across the background which are fixed stars when the Earth in your model is now facing another portion of the Stars which is not possible for us to see being as Mars is now well behind us in the Nights sky?
As a newcomer to star watching I observed retrograde motion of Mars in either 1978 or 1979 but had no idea what was happening. Took me a few years to run across a scientific explanation and - Bingo - my riddle was solved. Very good presentation! Regards.
It is sometimes observed in transparent lift confusing whether we are going up or down after it stops midway, watching outside. It happens coincidentally and not consciously.
You explained it very well, Tina. Thank you. It's about how we see those from distance. The sun & the moon are too far & very close, so we don't see those go retrograde. It's including galaxies, distant planets, objects. (Fri 12 Aug 2022 15h32)
Good Model for explanation....especially the motion of houses and fixed signs is good to visualize how personal charts are developed...Thanks for good video...and keep it up.
For retrograde motion to take place, Mercury has to orbit slower than Earth. But isn't Mercury's orbit the fastest in 88 days? In all the visuals in the video, Mercury's orbit is shown as further out from the Sun but that isn't true right?
I really enjoy the model that you made to demonstrate this system. Starting at 2:50. Do you happen to know the gear ratios? I'm interested in making one.
The video is amazing. Great job and thank you. The only improvement I can think of would be a tiny camera on the earth ball that would show Mars against the changing background. But that would be tricky.
Because all planets orbits are NOT circular. The are elliptical. So there are times when the two ellipses, earth and Mars, are closer together and then farther apart as earth passes Mars. Watch this again and think of Mars being closer to earth at some points, and then father away, like the unnamed planet that was shown, so the apparent retrograde loop is smaller.
It has to do with its eccentric orbit. Looked through ephemeris on stellarium. Ranges from 59 days during perihelic (close) oppositions to 81 days in bad aphelic ones. My theory for the change in retrograde span is due to changes in orbital speed of Mars. During its perihelion and favorable oppositions, it moves faster like a skater almost going your speed so it doesn't retrograde as far, as low as 10 degrees, inversely during aphelic oppositions, even though parallax should make it smaller, Mars is traveling MUCH slower, allowing it to appear to retrograde vastly, as much as 19.5 degrees.
@@rickkwitkoski1976 Clearly you didn't think your response through. If you knew anything about Mars' retrograde then you would know that Mars' retrogrades LONGER when it is r further from Earth than when it is closer. Parrallax, which is what this video is calling retrograde is the EXACT opposite!
@@chrisbahnsen7551 Sorry to bust your bubble, that's Kepler's theory! Planets slow down and somehow speed up again, must be magic! What are you even talking about apehelin and perihelion? It only retrogrades at PERIGEE, EVER! Look at the RA and the distance and magnitude on Stellarium, its always brightest because its closest during retrograde. Its not appearing in the distance to move, it is moving, look at the RA in Stellarium! It's going the opposite direction.
Absolutely great video. However I looked many times at the last graph and still don’t get it. Why are the t=121 days positions of Earth, Mars and Jupiter projected as the position on the celestial sphere at t=0 days? It just doesn’t make sense to me. What’s the explanation or is this a mistake?
Didn't Einstein establish that all movement is relative and depends on frame of reference? Then how can you say that the ptolemeic system is wrong? It is an accurate description of retrograde phenomenon, just using a different frame of reference. Not the simplest one, but still working.
Excellent explanation. These times and angles are averages. Thanks to stellarium's ephemeris tool, I noted vast discrepancies with Mars. During favorable oppositions when its closest to the sun in its orbit, retrograde time can be as short as 59 days and as great as 81 during "far" oppositions. I'm guessing its span is affected by its orbital speed. Favorable oppositions (July-Oct) when Mars is moving faster and closer to the orbital speed of Earth have 10 degree loops while unfavorable ones (Jan-April) where Mars is slow and far, we whiz by and it has loops as big as 19.5 degrees. Only elliptical Mercury has a similar effect of spans vastly varying. Her method is very accurate for more circular orbits such as Jupiter, where I found a period at 116-125 days with no span changes.
Desktop stellarium has an ephemeris feature that allows you to see the apparent spot any planet and/or asteroid is in through a time period you pick, so you can trace its path.
This shows half of Earth's orbit around the Sun, but what about when Earth is on the other side of the Sun? Shouldn't Mars or other planets disappear between us and the Sun at some point?
+Chuck Norris At 2:31 she talks about Mars being at "opposition," which is when the sun, Earth and Mars are aligned with Earth in the middle and Mars on the opposite side of us from the sun. When the Earth is aligned with Mars having the sun directly in between them, i.e. with Mars on the other side of the sun, that is called a "superior/solar conjunction" at which point Mars is blocked from the Earth's view for a couple of weeks roughly every 2 years.
Thats fantastic Richard Fitt. But a greater problem appears unexplained that at if we take a point on the earth orbit to be the start point for that time it takes to go round the sun at a point quarter-way on the sun should be hidden towards the southern pole ifthe planet retains its north direction else the polar star should rise above to the equator
You guys are unbelievable. When Earth is behind the Sun but Mars is in "front" of the Sun, you should be able to observe Mars during the day and not at night. If you don't don't believe me then do what astronomer in the video did, make a model, and see for yourself. If your last objection is, the real sun is too bright for Mars to be fully visible during the day, then you will realize why we don't see many stars during day or maybe God wasn't want to you to see the stars because you're unworthy for heaven.
Unfortunately, this explanation for the observed retrogrades of our planets does not stand up to close scrutiny. Mars, for instance, is actually observed to retrograde for less time (61 days) and width during its CLOSEST passages to Earth (approx. 0.37AU) - and for more time (83 days) and width during its FURTHEST passages to Earth (approx. 0.67AU). This is contrary to the most basic laws of perspective - as thoroughly expounded and illustrated in my book "The TYCHOS - Our Geoaxial Binary System" (2022).
@algodoomarbleracing They could be shaped like a banana but retrograde only happens at perigee, now why does Mars have 8 different close approaches to us all in different zodiacal signs with varying time periods?
Very good 10/10 but how does this work for inferior planets like Venus or mercury. Would it actually be considered Earth in retrograde in relation to them? Because earth has a longer orbit? Additionally could we even see mercury or Venus in this retrograde period? Or would it be during the day. I’m going to look all of this up in a couple minutes lol I’m just stating my questions here
No. Mercury and Venus both are seen in retrograde but neither of them go past the earth. Each only gets so far from the sun and then goes back the other direction. From either of them, earth would appear in retrograde as Mars and further plants appear to be from earth.
This is great but it's too bad you didn't do a second demonstration with the model, showing smooth motion that doesn't stop. Studens usually need to see things more than once. (You could edit it in, even now.)
Very interesting, so I am guessing it's kind of similar to how we think that other vehicles are going backwards when we overtake them, except the effect is caused because apparent position of the planet is different from what it actually is, all a matter of perspective
Ok, it is good, so you justify at the end that is mars and Jupiter is in retrograde motion when it is not really retrograde motion, but it is really a circle, but the external circle is slow motion in compare to internal circle, so external planets is slower than the internal planet that is the earth? The first part from Ptolemy is more right than your model since it is more simple than more complex. Since the first part is earth is center and mars is in motion that is not a circle, but yours is a circle but a slower circle that is external to internal that is a faster circle. So, it will cause the result of retrograde motion from external planets? That is wrong, the part from Ptolemy is right, not as right as other models that are from Tycho. So, you did good which shows motion but it should be perspective motion which I walk close to you or far from you, does it means you are moving close or far? No, it means I move close so I am the source, not the external as source so it is misleading and confuse people. Only the source is moving to justify the visual motion of external. So, the background stars are stationary, but the external planet is not smooth motion but retrograde motion? Won't it be a star that has Retrograde motion as well. It is not fair you will accept planet that has Retrograde motion, but not the stars? The reason you accept this because you are making work from globe earth and retrograde motion you see from mars and others. As for different time which is delay time but delays time is a motion-position time as well, so MP time which you will see background star that is stationary, right, but the planet that is external with the slower speed that is not smooth motion but retrograde motion so you are basing retrograde motion from the shift of visual sight that is mars is left then to right, so mars are curving from left to right, but it would be better not to have retrograde motion, but back and forth motion that is left and right. Not up and down with up that is left and down is right. In parallel to days that are MP time is in parallel if the lower speed with higher speed that is you as internal which is faster than external which is slower, so the sun is not in motion, but you are in motion, but it will be stationary to your eye, so only left and right part of sun is far position of left and right to the center of sun, so no visual of sun motion but the earth is in motion base on-axis motion so that is one part and spin motion, so I use axis since you put 72 days, so a long way. So, MP of 172 days, that is Saturn which is smooth motion, but no retrograde motion, but further from Saturn which is mars that has a shift of MP days which after the cross which interacts of all points, so it creates an inverse point, so inverse triangle that is an upper level, so bottom level interacts point to an upper level that is an inverse triangle, so you inverse the days so the viewing is inverse?? So, you are viewing one side of the opposite which 180 range of left side to 180 range of right side which the center is zero points. So, base on the smooth motion of planets and other stuff, so base on one side of 180, so the smooth motion change to non-smooth so it is retrograde motion? So, even it is all right, so it would be accurate to called MP of mars and Jupiter to be smooth, not up and down with left and right. So, if a car move back and forth, does it means you are moving left and right to justify the car going back and forth? No, because you will go far left and right of cars which is stationary, so the car is in motion and you move faster in smooth orbit of both that is car's orbit and yours' orbit, so cars will not change as up and down, but you go far left and right and at same time for left part you go down and right part you go up, so perspective size of the car will change that it will narrow or expand, so it is you that is moving, same with earth. Either you understand that your explanation might be wrong and confusing so you mislead people or you are misleading yourself so you assume you understand accurately which you don't. Which other person mislead you. Smooth motion of Jupiter and Mars doesn't justify retrograde motion which MP of Mars and Jupiter is not smooth, but will likely to show back and forth at best, but at worse, your MP is higher in viewing gap since you are moving faster so the viewing gap of mars to you will be higher as you go more south, it will narrow and at same time more left, as mars and Jupiter is in relatively stationery to your faster motion, not Jupiter and Mars that is showing faster motion to your stationary because you are moving faster. So, no inverse viewing, like you show above inverse triangle which switch the time to another side base on position viewing to the background so position viewing gap is narrow or expand to background star, so you make it narrows for MP of 72 days and 121 days, so at those days the PV gap is narrow to background stars which should be wide, not narrow. All things that are smooth must create a triangle, so what you show is non-triangle as retrograde motion. Circle is even in 4 radii and 4 curve, so it has even point which from top to left which you draw diagonally line so it is between the curve and 90 degree at center, so it looks like a triangle, so 4 triangles within a circle. So, the triangle represents smooth. So, it would make sense if all things are one triangle that is one, but not two which has two triangles that are upper and bottom which bottom is an inverse. So, the baseline is the point of viewing to point of interacts which are the opposition so you are left and right, so it can be fast or slow, so in a smooth way, upper level to the opposition which is a slower region where the stars are. So, from 4:22 to 5:53 showing which I understand so background stars change, so it views left and right since circumference is less than star's circumference so that is why you see more same star per smaller circumference so you go left and you go right, which at the same time it is up and down, so star position 1 is same from first as 1 to 2 to back to 3 and to 4, which after 3 is 1, so you are seeing again. So, the gap diameter is little wider than the diameter of an object, so stars are within diameter viewing of an object, so both are in parallel, but it will not justify retrograde motion which object do shift so it is different from 4:22 and 5:53 which 5:53 is misleading and 4:22 is more honest. The viewing distance must be in parallel to viewing diameter of the earth itself so you are seeing is equal to the diameter or more than earth's size, but the object needs to be big or very bright since humans' don't have infinity distance viewing so it depends how big the mass relative to vertical diameter distance to horizontal diameter of the object. So, the opposition is base on the size of circumference relative to bigger circumference in viewing, so the bigger circumference of stars and planet, the more your viewing of the same planet and stars in less time. So, it will be still smooth motion but not retrograde motion. So, you are making an equal to star's non-motion which create higher viewing base on smaller circumference size so making the same for the planet which is higher motion, so you are seeing it again, but you will not, so not with the same star, but at the different position in connecting to different stars but not a position of retrograde motion, but a fraction of curve or fraction of 90 degrees.
I racked my brains forever thinking about why this happened, until I realized that the movement is only retrograde to the background stars - not local midnight.
2:40 your model is flawed as the Earth and the Night sky changes as it moves from right to left, but if we can look up in the sky and see Mars making its pattern is because The background of the sky Hasnt changed but in your model it shows otherwise.
Thankyou for very thoughtful explanation. Although this makes me wonder what if the movement of the other planets like Saturn or Jupiter which seems to be normal may actually have retrograde motion.
Margaret Sharp Earth has retrograde motion relative to Venus. And relative to Earth, Venus has phases almost like the moon except venus doesn't have either a full moon or new moon phase because the sun is between, so probably full moon Venus doesn't a thing and new moon Venus is the alignment of the sun, Venus, and Earth. Again I'm not to sure because inferior planets are less looked at.
Retrograde is what we observe when we ride the "spinning tea cups" at an amusement park. It's a "real" phenomena, when both the observer and observed are both in motion.
IMPORTANT! All of this is in relation to the STARS, not the Sun. If you take a picture, say at midnight, each (solar) day facing the same direction (in relation to the horizon) you won't see the retrograde motion of the outer planets (also in relation to the horizon) because they are mostly far away; you may notice them slow down or speed up a tiny tiny bit, but they will still go westwards (in the sky) each day except for Mars, which speeds up and slows down quite a bit (but never moves eastwards) since it is closer. You can, although, see the inner planets move East in the sky each day when the Sun is more or less between them and Earth.
ah, then i didnt get it at all ^^" how do i see the outer planets going "retrograde"? like, irl, where should i look? do i choose a star or constellation and take pics based on that one? :D
@@briciolaa Exactly. Choose a star/constallation that is relatively close (in the sky) to the planet you want to track and stick to it. Take a picture of that one sidereal day (23h 58 min) from one another and you should see the farther outer planets' retrograde motions against the static starry background. Planets usually move East in relation to the stars. Retrograde motion is when they start going West in relation to the stars (any star other then the Sun, that is). In the original comment I said not to use the Sun as reference, since it moves around 0,98° to the East each day in relation to the other stars. Since you'd be using the Sun as reference, in each day's picture (one solar day from one another, since the Sun is the time reference here) you'd see the Sun in the same spot, but the stars and everything else moving at 0,98° degrees to the West per day. This makes it hard to see the retrograde motion of the outer planets, since (in relation to the Sun!!!) everything already goes West in the sky (except the Moon -- the Moon goes to the East both in relation to the Sun and the other Stars -- and the inner planets, Mercury and Venus, when the Sun is in between Earth and them. Also, keep in mind we're talking about a day-by-day observation. If you were to take a picture of the sky, say, every hour you'd see everything -- no exception -- going West, since the rotation of the Earth is so fast relative to everything else in the sky). What I'd recommend for a better understanding: download SkySafari, choose a location close to the Equator line in the settings. Then find Saturn (just as an example, could be Jupiter too, if you want), find a star very close to it and select said star. Then go to the "selection" option and choose "center object" (this will make the star you chose as your anchor point, your reference. Now go to the "time" option and highlight the day of the month. Now tap the "fast-forward" button. This will show you the sky every sidereal day. Notice that the Sun goes to the East with each step. Saturn will also go East, however, it will start slowing down and then go West for a little while. I can make a video on it if you want me to.
The model of Ptolemy evolved over time to incorporate at least 17 epicycles (circles within circles) and it became very complex to analyze by the 1500s. It gave more accurate predictions for planetary positions than the heliocentric theory proposed by Copernicus. But it was the sheer simplicity of the heliocentric model that won over the natural scientists of the day. There was nothing wrong with the Ptolemy model - it was not meant to be a physical theory of cause and effect, like Newton's theory of gravitation which resulted in the prediction that planets would move in elliptical orbits. But it was simply a tool for calculating the positions of planets from the perspective of the Earth (a natural, if unfortunate, choice). The heliocentric theory, likewise, was not a physical theory, but a description of motion of the planets from the perspective of the Sun. It was much simpler to describe due to the much greater mass of the Sun compared to any of the planets, hence it was essentially a center of mass of the solar system description, a description of motion that is simpler to describe.
Planets are wandering stars and consist of plasma, they are driven by the earth's electromagnetic field on their electromagnetic orbits (Van Allen belt). The so-called planetary loops occur because the stars are trapped in a magnetic bottle and collide with their own magnetic mirror during their orbit and only then pick up speed again. The earth is the center of the universe and stands still. It is extremely instructive to look at a fusion reactor in plasma physics, then you will understand it better. He didnt know electromagnetism back then, but I think he was right.
fading no1 it's motion relative to Earth just like your friends are fast or slow relative to your speed. But currently you can't be slower or faster than your current self. So earth has retrograde if you live on Venus, and how venus looks like to us should be what earth's motion looks like from Mars or Jupiter
"completely wrong"? the "ptolomy" system explains retrogression as an artifact of the planets simultaneous apparent orbit of the earth and actual orbit of the sun. how is this "completely wrong"?
What do yall think of this? I like to get outside of my echo chambers and see if the ideas still work cuz anything that doesn't work I have to let go of as I find new evidence that forces me to change my position on things I had to like 2yrs ago when I came across this blow my mind lol I can't explain it but its still there and works lol this map is insane
What's insane about this? Apparent retrograde motion of the outer planets is explained very well. This inner planets, mercury and Venus, not with this. They are different because the are closer to the sun and pass Earth! Also, this model doesn't take into account the elliptical orbits. It assumes circular orbits. That's fine for this explanation, but the size of the retrograde loops and time they take varies because of elliptical orbits. Mars changes the most and as your go further out, the amount of variation decreases. What is YOUR understanding of this and how do you account for ir?
@@rickkwitkoski1976 idk I'm thinking of it like nascar and I went to them a lot as a kid my dad was into it lol but I never saw them seem to go in reverse when they went around 🤣 so I don't quite have a great understanding enough to teach this yet. But I figure it's like the car in the inside track near the Apex is going to go faster than those in the outside lanes. (thinking of the sun as the wall or apex here and the planets as each in their own lane.) But those 2 would pass us more often than the rest would. But idk how space works at all anymore I thought I had a good understanding when I still believe NASA 😂 now I can't even well I believe somethings they've said but after a certain date they became bs and went to justify their annual budget. But idk since I read the lunar lander was designed to return n land on a "flat and stationary earth" idk what to believe anymore lol I'm still looking into a lot of evidence n waiting for more to become declassified and then I'll make up my mind until then I'm like idk anything cuz the more u learn the more you find the less u know lol
I teach Astronomy, and this is one of the best demonstrations I have seen explaining retrograde motion! Congratulations!!
where do you teach
Please don't tell kids that one model is right or wrong. They are only more or less complicated and more or less predictive.
Geocentrism is what we actually see, standing on Earth. Heliocentrism is easier to draw on paper. But try to do the math.
Galileo, Copernicus, Kepler could not predict eclipses nor planetary positions far into the future. Whereas Babylon since before 747 BC and C Ptolemy since AD 150 could. Not until Haily and Newton AD 1700 could we painfully produce more accurate results and only because we had 3000 years of geocentric data. Even NASA relies upon and cites Babylonian and ancient Chinese records.
this is incorrect because a new movement of the earth has been discovered that has changed out concept of the configuration of the solar system. it is called the tychos, our geoaxial binary system.
I finally understand, that demonstration was phenomenal
Simply love the speaker's voice. Crystal clear. What an awesome and novel effort of mechanical demo! Hats off!!!
This is the BEST video I have come across explaining "apparent" retrograde motion of superior planets... a job very well done!
Finally, a prefect explanation and beautiful visual model!
Thank you for finally helping me understand. I think maybe it 85% make sense to me now which is SO much more progress than I've made with other videos / explanations!
I am an audit and accounting student. I've recently grew an interest in astronomy so i've been watching videos related to it. Your video explained it really well. And if anyone sees my comment do recommend good beginners guide to astronomy.
ua-cam.com/video/MsJVNRzl0QQ/v-deo.html
@@Almuric.Tychos Thankyou
2:40 So how is it at this point we are able to see Mars move across the background which are fixed stars when the Earth in your model is now facing another portion of the Stars which is not possible for us to see being as Mars is now well behind us in the Nights sky?
As a newcomer to star watching I observed retrograde motion of Mars in either 1978 or 1979 but had no idea what was happening. Took me a few years to run across a scientific explanation and - Bingo - my riddle was solved. Very good presentation! Regards.
Thanks for this video, I understand this phenomenon now due to your phenomenal demonstration and explanation.
In case anyone is curious, the song is "I Don't See the Branches, I See the Leaves" by Chris Zabriskie.
That demonstration tool was sooo good and well explanatory
It is sometimes observed in transparent lift confusing whether we are going up or down after it stops midway, watching outside. It happens coincidentally and not consciously.
Mind blown. Thank you. This visual was Much needed! And I love the hand crank for teaching
You explained it very well, Tina. Thank you.
It's about how we see those from distance. The sun & the moon are too far & very close, so we don't see those go retrograde. It's including galaxies, distant planets, objects.
(Fri 12 Aug 2022 15h32)
So clear and simple .. finally understood the thing .. thanks for your efforts
Excellent presentation.
Good Model for explanation....especially the motion of houses and fixed signs is good to visualize how personal charts are developed...Thanks for good video...and keep it up.
Simply, brilliant! Thank you for this.
Very helpful for astrology students. Thank you for this easy to understand excellent presentation. 🌌🌠🌜
What about interior planets? Does the same logic apply like mercury went in retrograde yesterday 9th September 2020.
Not quite
For retrograde motion to take place, Mercury has to orbit slower than Earth. But isn't Mercury's orbit the fastest in 88 days? In all the visuals in the video, Mercury's orbit is shown as further out from the Sun but that isn't true right?
I really enjoy the model that you made to demonstrate this system. Starting at 2:50. Do you happen to know the gear ratios? I'm interested in making one.
Tha ratio is probably the same as the ratio of the periods of the 2 orbits.
The video is amazing. Great job and thank you. The only improvement I can think of would be a tiny camera on the earth ball that would show Mars against the changing background. But that would be tricky.
great illustration.
Excellent explanation, thanks for such a great video.
Best I have seen yet
please demonstrate why Mar's retrograde period is variable. It is not always 72 days. It's angular loops size also changes.
Because all planets orbits are NOT circular. The are elliptical. So there are times when the two ellipses, earth and Mars, are closer together and then farther apart as earth passes Mars.
Watch this again and think of Mars being closer to earth at some points, and then father away, like the unnamed planet that was shown, so the apparent retrograde loop is smaller.
@@rickkwitkoski1976 That is not a demonstration sir.
It has to do with its eccentric orbit. Looked through ephemeris on stellarium. Ranges from 59 days during perihelic (close) oppositions to 81 days in bad aphelic ones. My theory for the change in retrograde span is due to changes in orbital speed of Mars. During its perihelion and favorable oppositions, it moves faster like a skater almost going your speed so it doesn't retrograde as far, as low as 10 degrees, inversely during aphelic oppositions, even though parallax should make it smaller, Mars is traveling MUCH slower, allowing it to appear to retrograde vastly, as much as 19.5 degrees.
@@rickkwitkoski1976 Clearly you didn't think your response through. If you knew anything about Mars' retrograde then you would know that Mars' retrogrades LONGER when it is r further from Earth than when it is closer. Parrallax, which is what this video is calling retrograde is the EXACT opposite!
@@chrisbahnsen7551 Sorry to bust your bubble, that's Kepler's theory! Planets slow down and somehow speed up again, must be magic! What are you even talking about apehelin and perihelion? It only retrogrades at PERIGEE, EVER! Look at the RA and the distance and magnitude on Stellarium, its always brightest because its closest during retrograde. Its not appearing in the distance to move, it is moving, look at the RA in Stellarium! It's going the opposite direction.
Absolutely great video. However I looked many times at the last graph and still don’t get it. Why are the t=121 days positions of Earth, Mars and Jupiter projected as the position on the celestial sphere at t=0 days? It just doesn’t make sense to me. What’s the explanation or is this a mistake?
Thanks for the wonderful explanation. 🙏
Perfect explanation.
Thank you for this educational video. I learned something new.
Didn't Einstein establish that all movement is relative and depends on frame of reference? Then how can you say that the ptolemeic system is wrong? It is an accurate description of retrograde phenomenon, just using a different frame of reference. Not the simplest one, but still working.
Because the planets don’t move in an epicycle
Excellent explanation. These times and angles are averages. Thanks to stellarium's ephemeris tool, I noted vast discrepancies with Mars. During favorable oppositions when its closest to the sun in its orbit, retrograde time can be as short as 59 days and as great as 81 during "far" oppositions. I'm guessing its span is affected by its orbital speed. Favorable oppositions (July-Oct) when Mars is moving faster and closer to the orbital speed of Earth have 10 degree loops while unfavorable ones (Jan-April) where Mars is slow and far, we whiz by and it has loops as big as 19.5 degrees. Only elliptical Mercury has a similar effect of spans vastly varying. Her method is very accurate for more circular orbits such as Jupiter, where I found a period at 116-125 days with no span changes.
Is there any software available to see the movement of other planets seen from the earth. (the top view)
Desktop stellarium has an ephemeris feature that allows you to see the apparent spot any planet and/or asteroid is in through a time period you pick, so you can trace its path.
this is great explanatory regarding retrograde motion. thanks
I'm in love with the speakers voice.
Why are you not in love with creator 😊
Too feminine.
This shows half of Earth's orbit around the Sun, but what about when Earth is on the other side of the Sun? Shouldn't Mars or other planets disappear between us and the Sun at some point?
They change facts to fit the theory.
+Chuck Norris At 2:31 she talks about Mars being at "opposition," which is when the sun, Earth and Mars are aligned with Earth in the middle and Mars on the opposite side of us from the sun. When the Earth is aligned with Mars having the sun directly in between them, i.e. with Mars on the other side of the sun, that is called a "superior/solar conjunction" at which point Mars is blocked from the Earth's view for a couple of weeks roughly every 2 years.
Thats fantastic Richard Fitt. But a greater problem appears unexplained that at if we take a point on the earth orbit to be the start point for that time it takes to go round the sun at a point quarter-way on the sun should be hidden towards the southern pole ifthe planet retains its north direction else the polar star should rise above to the equator
Yes. They do disappear.... not sure what you're asking
You guys are unbelievable. When Earth is behind the Sun but Mars is in "front" of the Sun, you should be able to observe Mars during the day and not at night. If you don't don't believe me then do what astronomer in the video did, make a model, and see for yourself. If your last objection is, the real sun is too bright for Mars to be fully visible during the day, then you will realize why we don't see many stars during day or maybe God wasn't want to you to see the stars because you're unworthy for heaven.
Unfortunately, this explanation for the observed retrogrades of our planets does not stand up to close scrutiny. Mars, for instance, is actually observed to retrograde for less time (61 days) and width during its CLOSEST passages to Earth (approx. 0.37AU) - and for more time (83 days) and width during its FURTHEST passages to Earth (approx. 0.67AU). This is contrary to the most basic laws of perspective - as thoroughly expounded and illustrated in my book "The TYCHOS - Our Geoaxial Binary System" (2022).
The Tychos model has to be the correct model of the solar system!!!!!!!!!!! amazing
This is because all orbits are not perfectly circular but are somewhat elliptical
@algodoomarbleracing They could be shaped like a banana but retrograde only happens at perigee, now why does Mars have 8 different close approaches to us all in different zodiacal signs with varying time periods?
planets have 360 degree wobbling along the plane of revolution.
Thank you for this amazing explanation! I'd like to have your permission to embed this video on our website. :)
Who's here After watching the Anime called Orb: on the movement of the earth
Excellent demonstration.
very great explanation of retrograde motion!
Outstanding presentation 👏👌👍
Couldn't have been any better
Very good 10/10 but how does this work for inferior planets like Venus or mercury. Would it actually be considered Earth in retrograde in relation to them? Because earth has a longer orbit? Additionally could we even see mercury or Venus in this retrograde period? Or would it be during the day. I’m going to look all of this up in a couple minutes lol I’m just stating my questions here
No. Mercury and Venus both are seen in retrograde but neither of them go past the earth. Each only gets so far from the sun and then goes back the other direction.
From either of them, earth would appear in retrograde as Mars and further plants appear to be from earth.
great demonstration. helpful on the journey of learning about history of astronomy^^
Nice Model and explanation. Thanks!
very beautifully explained!
This is great but it's too bad you didn't do a second demonstration with the model, showing smooth motion that doesn't stop. Studens usually need to see things more than once. (You could edit it in, even now.)
Try turning that flat disk motion explanation into a 3D explanation.
That was well explained. Cheers major. Gen Harry
good video thanks for sharing..
Three body problem?
Very interesting, so I am guessing it's kind of similar to how we think that other vehicles are going backwards when we overtake them, except the effect is caused because apparent position of the planet is different from what it actually is, all a matter of perspective
Ok, it is good, so you justify at the end that is mars and Jupiter is in retrograde motion when it is not really retrograde motion, but it is really a circle, but the external circle is slow motion in compare to internal circle, so external planets is slower than the internal planet that is the earth?
The first part from Ptolemy is more right than your model since it is more simple than more complex. Since the first part is earth is center and mars is in motion that is not a circle, but yours is a circle but a slower circle that is external to internal that is a faster circle. So, it will cause the result of retrograde motion from external planets? That is wrong, the part from Ptolemy is right, not as right as other models that are from Tycho. So, you did good which shows motion but it should be perspective motion which I walk close to you or far from you, does it means you are moving close or far? No, it means I move close so I am the source, not the external as source so it is misleading and confuse people. Only the source is moving to justify the visual motion of external.
So, the background stars are stationary, but the external planet is not smooth motion but retrograde motion? Won't it be a star that has Retrograde motion as well. It is not fair you will accept planet that has Retrograde motion, but not the stars? The reason you accept this because you are making work from globe earth and retrograde motion you see from mars and others.
As for different time which is delay time but delays time is a motion-position time as well, so MP time which you will see background star that is stationary, right, but the planet that is external with the slower speed that is not smooth motion but retrograde motion so you are basing retrograde motion from the shift of visual sight that is mars is left then to right, so mars are curving from left to right, but it would be better not to have retrograde motion, but back and forth motion that is left and right. Not up and down with up that is left and down is right.
In parallel to days that are MP time is in parallel if the lower speed with higher speed that is you as internal which is faster than external which is slower, so the sun is not in motion, but you are in motion, but it will be stationary to your eye, so only left and right part of sun is far position of left and right to the center of sun, so no visual of sun motion but the earth is in motion base on-axis motion so that is one part and spin motion, so I use axis since you put 72 days, so a long way.
So, MP of 172 days, that is Saturn which is smooth motion, but no retrograde motion, but further from Saturn which is mars that has a shift of MP days which after the cross which interacts of all points, so it creates an inverse point, so inverse triangle that is an upper level, so bottom level interacts point to an upper level that is an inverse triangle, so you inverse the days so the viewing is inverse?? So, you are viewing one side of the opposite which 180 range of left side to 180 range of right side which the center is zero points. So, base on the smooth motion of planets and other stuff, so base on one side of 180, so the smooth motion change to non-smooth so it is retrograde motion?
So, even it is all right, so it would be accurate to called MP of mars and Jupiter to be smooth, not up and down with left and right. So, if a car move back and forth, does it means you are moving left and right to justify the car going back and forth? No, because you will go far left and right of cars which is stationary, so the car is in motion and you move faster in smooth orbit of both that is car's orbit and yours' orbit, so cars will not change as up and down, but you go far left and right and at same time for left part you go down and right part you go up, so perspective size of the car will change that it will narrow or expand, so it is you that is moving, same with earth.
Either you understand that your explanation might be wrong and confusing so you mislead people or you are misleading yourself so you assume you understand accurately which you don't. Which other person mislead you.
Smooth motion of Jupiter and Mars doesn't justify retrograde motion which MP of Mars and Jupiter is not smooth, but will likely to show back and forth at best, but at worse, your MP is higher in viewing gap since you are moving faster so the viewing gap of mars to you will be higher as you go more south, it will narrow and at same time more left, as mars and Jupiter is in relatively stationery to your faster motion, not Jupiter and Mars that is showing faster motion to your stationary because you are moving faster. So, no inverse viewing, like you show above inverse triangle which switch the time to another side base on position viewing to the background so position viewing gap is narrow or expand to background star, so you make it narrows for MP of 72 days and 121 days, so at those days the PV gap is narrow to background stars which should be wide, not narrow. All things that are smooth must create a triangle, so what you show is non-triangle as retrograde motion. Circle is even in 4 radii and 4 curve, so it has even point which from top to left which you draw diagonally line so it is between the curve and 90 degree at center, so it looks like a triangle, so 4 triangles within a circle. So, the triangle represents smooth.
So, it would make sense if all things are one triangle that is one, but not two which has two triangles that are upper and bottom which bottom is an inverse. So, the baseline is the point of viewing to point of interacts which are the opposition so you are left and right, so it can be fast or slow, so in a smooth way, upper level to the opposition which is a slower region where the stars are. So, from 4:22 to 5:53 showing which I understand so background stars change, so it views left and right since circumference is less than star's circumference so that is why you see more same star per smaller circumference so you go left and you go right, which at the same time it is up and down, so star position 1 is same from first as 1 to 2 to back to 3 and to 4, which after 3 is 1, so you are seeing again. So, the gap diameter is little wider than the diameter of an object, so stars are within diameter viewing of an object, so both are in parallel, but it will not justify retrograde motion which object do shift so it is different from 4:22 and 5:53 which 5:53 is misleading and 4:22 is more honest. The viewing distance must be in parallel to viewing diameter of the earth itself so you are seeing is equal to the diameter or more than earth's size, but the object needs to be big or very bright since humans' don't have infinity distance viewing so it depends how big the mass relative to vertical diameter distance to horizontal diameter of the object.
So, the opposition is base on the size of circumference relative to bigger circumference in viewing, so the bigger circumference of stars and planet, the more your viewing of the same planet and stars in less time. So, it will be still smooth motion but not retrograde motion.
So, you are making an equal to star's non-motion which create higher viewing base on smaller circumference size so making the same for the planet which is higher motion, so you are seeing it again, but you will not, so not with the same star, but at the different position in connecting to different stars but not a position of retrograde motion, but a fraction of curve or fraction of 90 degrees.
I racked my brains forever thinking about why this happened, until I realized that the movement is only retrograde to the background stars - not local midnight.
Great demonstration!
2:40 your model is flawed as the Earth and the Night sky changes as it moves from right to left, but if we can look up in the sky and see Mars making its pattern is because The background of the sky Hasnt changed but in your model it shows otherwise.
Why Does mars takes longer time to retrograde than the other outer planets?
Thank You so very much
God Bless You
Just great! I hope now someone could connect this phenomena with astrological explanation.
Thanks indeed!
Thankyou for very thoughtful explanation. Although this makes me wonder what if the movement of the other planets like Saturn or Jupiter which seems to be normal may actually have retrograde motion.
man why wasn i taught that in school. this super interesting! the model is really cool!
This makes it easy to understand the superior planets retrograde but what about, Venus?
Margaret Sharp Earth has retrograde motion relative to Venus. And relative to Earth, Venus has phases almost like the moon except venus doesn't have either a full moon or new moon phase because the sun is between, so probably full moon Venus doesn't a thing and new moon Venus is the alignment of the sun, Venus, and Earth.
Again I'm not to sure because inferior planets are less looked at.
a very useful movie I am grateful thanks
Thank you so much, such a great explanation ❤️
Very helpful for my astronomy olympiad
Thank you. Well done.
Great information vedio. Thanks
Nice and understandable expiation.
thank you for this explanation! It was very helpful.
SO SICK!!!
Great Illustration... Jai Ho!
Great explanation!
Retrograde is what we observe when we ride the "spinning tea cups" at an amusement park. It's a "real" phenomena, when both the observer and observed are both in motion.
IMPORTANT! All of this is in relation to the STARS, not the Sun. If you take a picture, say at midnight, each (solar) day facing the same direction (in relation to the horizon) you won't see the retrograde motion of the outer planets (also in relation to the horizon) because they are mostly far away; you may notice them slow down or speed up a tiny tiny bit, but they will still go westwards (in the sky) each day except for Mars, which speeds up and slows down quite a bit (but never moves eastwards) since it is closer. You can, although, see the inner planets move East in the sky each day when the Sun is more or less between them and Earth.
ah, then i didnt get it at all ^^" how do i see the outer planets going "retrograde"? like, irl, where should i look? do i choose a star or constellation and take pics based on that one? :D
@@briciolaa Exactly. Choose a star/constallation that is relatively close (in the sky) to the planet you want to track and stick to it. Take a picture of that one sidereal day (23h 58 min) from one another and you should see the farther outer planets' retrograde motions against the static starry background.
Planets usually move East in relation to the stars. Retrograde motion is when they start going West in relation to the stars (any star other then the Sun, that is).
In the original comment I said not to use the Sun as reference, since it moves around 0,98° to the East each day in relation to the other stars. Since you'd be using the Sun as reference, in each day's picture (one solar day from one another, since the Sun is the time reference here) you'd see the Sun in the same spot, but the stars and everything else moving at 0,98° degrees to the West per day. This makes it hard to see the retrograde motion of the outer planets, since (in relation to the Sun!!!) everything already goes West in the sky (except the Moon -- the Moon goes to the East both in relation to the Sun and the other Stars -- and the inner planets, Mercury and Venus, when the Sun is in between Earth and them. Also, keep in mind we're talking about a day-by-day observation. If you were to take a picture of the sky, say, every hour you'd see everything -- no exception -- going West, since the rotation of the Earth is so fast relative to everything else in the sky).
What I'd recommend for a better understanding: download SkySafari, choose a location close to the Equator line in the settings. Then find Saturn (just as an example, could be Jupiter too, if you want), find a star very close to it and select said star. Then go to the "selection" option and choose "center object" (this will make the star you chose as your anchor point, your reference. Now go to the "time" option and highlight the day of the month. Now tap the "fast-forward" button. This will show you the sky every sidereal day. Notice that the Sun goes to the East with each step. Saturn will also go East, however, it will start slowing down and then go West for a little while.
I can make a video on it if you want me to.
@@briciolaa I can make a video on it if you want me to. I always wanted to make a video about that anyway.
@@briciolaa please say yes
@@mr.washingtonsbuddy.8454 thank u so so much for explaining!!!!! also yes of course, id love to see a video on it explained by you!!!
Very well explained! Thanks
the effect is due to a faster motion of earth in relation to Jupiter?
Thanks. I shared this video on my social media accounts.
The model of Ptolemy evolved over time to incorporate at least 17 epicycles (circles within circles) and it became very complex to analyze by the 1500s. It gave more accurate predictions for planetary positions than the heliocentric theory proposed by Copernicus. But it was the sheer simplicity of the heliocentric model that won over the natural scientists of the day. There was nothing wrong with the Ptolemy model - it was not meant to be a physical theory of cause and effect, like Newton's theory of gravitation which resulted in the prediction that planets would move in elliptical orbits. But it was simply a tool for calculating the positions of planets from the perspective of the Earth (a natural, if unfortunate, choice). The heliocentric theory, likewise, was not a physical theory, but a description of motion of the planets from the perspective of the Sun. It was much simpler to describe due to the much greater mass of the Sun compared to any of the planets, hence it was essentially a center of mass of the solar system description, a description of motion that is simpler to describe.
I'm with Ptolemy on this one.
Planets are wandering stars and consist of plasma, they are driven by the earth's electromagnetic field on their electromagnetic orbits (Van Allen belt). The so-called planetary loops occur because the stars are trapped in a magnetic bottle and collide with their own magnetic mirror during their orbit and only then pick up speed again. The earth is the center of the universe and stands still. It is extremely instructive to look at a fusion reactor in plasma physics, then you will understand it better. He didnt know electromagnetism back then, but I think he was right.
lol @@GeorgChristophLichtenber-jg1zr
I got the answer right. Even tho it wasn’t because the same reason but I’m so happy and glad I got it and understand it 🎉🎉😊💜
So retrograde motion is all a matter of perspective then is it possible for it to happen to earth? (From earth's own perspective).
fading no1 it's motion relative to Earth just like your friends are fast or slow relative to your speed. But currently you can't be slower or faster than your current self.
So earth has retrograde if you live on Venus, and how venus looks like to us should be what earth's motion looks like from Mars or Jupiter
very brilliant explanation
BRILLIANT !!!
thankyou sensei
"completely wrong"? the "ptolomy" system explains retrogression as an artifact of the planets simultaneous apparent orbit of the earth and actual orbit of the sun. how is this "completely wrong"?
What do yall think of this? I like to get outside of my echo chambers and see if the ideas still work cuz anything that doesn't work I have to let go of as I find new evidence that forces me to change my position on things I had to like 2yrs ago when I came across this blow my mind lol I can't explain it but its still there and works lol this map is insane
ua-cam.com/video/dx30E9_MfIQ/v-deo.html
What's insane about this?
Apparent retrograde motion of the outer planets is explained very well. This inner planets, mercury and Venus, not with this. They are different because the are closer to the sun and pass Earth!
Also, this model doesn't take into account the elliptical orbits. It assumes circular orbits. That's fine for this explanation, but the size of the retrograde loops and time they take varies because of elliptical orbits. Mars changes the most and as your go further out, the amount of variation decreases.
What is YOUR understanding of this and how do you account for ir?
@@rickkwitkoski1976 idk I'm thinking of it like nascar and I went to them a lot as a kid my dad was into it lol but I never saw them seem to go in reverse when they went around 🤣 so I don't quite have a great understanding enough to teach this yet. But I figure it's like the car in the inside track near the Apex is going to go faster than those in the outside lanes. (thinking of the sun as the wall or apex here and the planets as each in their own lane.) But those 2 would pass us more often than the rest would. But idk how space works at all anymore I thought I had a good understanding when I still believe NASA 😂 now I can't even well I believe somethings they've said but after a certain date they became bs and went to justify their annual budget. But idk since I read the lunar lander was designed to return n land on a "flat and stationary earth" idk what to believe anymore lol I'm still looking into a lot of evidence n waiting for more to become declassified and then I'll make up my mind until then I'm like idk anything cuz the more u learn the more you find the less u know lol
Great video
Thank you
completely Excellent video
1:34 I'm amazed at how he got that model, it is incorrect, but genius
good explanation
Wow, you killed that shit, perfect explanation.
Great video thanks, I love science it’s far out👌
This is crazy
Nice explianation
Bravo!
Good explanation