Starting Over! Redesigning our Carson Top
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- Опубліковано 10 вер 2024
- In this video I start over and redesign the Carson top cover and make some changes to the Carson top itself.
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The solution to the struggles of dealing with getting the vinyl to form fit the top is to use a steamer to heat the vinyl so it will stretch and form to the shape of the roof. I have done it before and had learned it from a shop that does vinyl as well as padded vinyl tops and upholstery.
yeah gonna let it sit in the sun and give it go
@@HalfassKustoms the sun might do it but since it's white it won't heat as much. A heat gun is more likely to overheat it and cause it to discolor. I have a small cheap handheld household type steamer that I use for it. I have even used it to restretch old shrunk and deformed vinyl on old door cards and was able to get them back to their original size and shape without cracking. I have also used it to reproduce the original non sewn seat covers for vintage Ski-Doo Elan's that have the large lump at the rear of the seats without stitching and they form fit Exactly. Heat is how factories make the vinyl stretch and form. Heat it, stretch it to shape while it's hot and when you have an area that needs to be shrunk such as those puckers while it's hot you can push it together and shrink it just like shrinking stretched steel. As soon as it is form fit and still hot, quickly cool it off to set the shape. Practice on a scrap piece that you cut off to form different shapes.
I was going to suggest a heat gun but I see you already made a similar suggestion
Yup and the steam helps loosen the glue for adjustments. Hobo freight has them for a decent price, under $200. 😉✌
YES ! . My. Friend UZE$ IT !!! ... .. .😄🤩🐎🤠
The Boo - Urns episode. That paper pattern idea was a real winner. We're all cheering during every one of your challenges and do the happy dance when you discover the secret to success. Still cheering on the top problem and, for your sake, really looking forward to the finish line that makes you happy.
I hate that it's taking soo many attempts to get this the way you imagine it to be, but it's refreshing to see the missteps and mishaps on UA-cam. Most people want to show that these kinds of jobs just come right together with no snags, gotchas, or set backs. You'll get it and know how to do it better for the next one. Keep at it!
Landau top material has 1/4” closed foam backing and is 4 way stretch.
I have a 69 Imperial and it's done something like that. The top is glued directly to the metal roof up to the crease where it slopes down to the rear glass. Around that area is what appears to be cotton padding about1/8 inch thick. The vinyl lays on top of that and secured on all edges by decorative trim.
Exactly. Unless you want to make that top with a 100 pieces in it, the vinyl has to stretch.
Dude, your patience and calmness about this is inspiring! Looking forward to your next video. Stay cool!
Brent! Got to give it to you for keep trying. I do believe the top foam is too thick- I know your trying to hide the imperfections on your welded top however it’s making it harder for the vinyl. I also feel you need to work with the center piece fitting and then your side pieces- I think your pieces after sewn together are still a bit big and bulky- too much slack to try and pull out the large ripples the pieces need to fit pretty good before you sew it all together in my opinion -also heat lamp or heat gun in working with your vinyl and clamps here and there can be most helpful as well. I’m sure you’ll figure it out- watch some you tube videos on rounded upholstery 👍🏻😊
Foam is twice as thick as it should be. IMHO.
Exactly. They make foam backed 4 way stretch vinyls for this type of application.
Steamers are for vert top material. This is vinyl. A head gun is your best friend. It will stretch like no tomorrow. You dont need any more stitches. 1/4" top foam(you can sand off the weld bumps), top glue sprayed with primer gun, and the heat gun will get the job done. Try it!
@@ScottESkullz I have used my steamer on vinyl many times and with steam unlike a heat gun there's no chance of scorching the vinyl.
@@todddenio3200 well then steam on brother! ~Said a professional white vinyl top installer on limousines for 20years~ 👍🏼
@todddenio3200 do ya put your bread in the toaster for 20minutes, or do ya pop em when they're just right? Lol
Brent, I did not think you would find a challenge that stretches you a little. i enjoy how you are calmly going about making the vinyl fit. I tried to fit vinyl once and gave up sanded and texture painted. Keep up the good work, I really appreciate your video's you are the very Best.
I Did a dash with wrinkle trunk paint ! . Looked like it. Waz PADDED !!! ... .. . 😅😮🐎🤠
I've seen Scott at cold war motors do some amazing sewing. Might not hurt to give him a holler!
When the content is good, don't mind if the video is a little long. Good work, good music ! Works for me. Brent, you'll get there I sincerely believe it.
It's nice to see Ryder working in the back.
I’m no expert but have helped do a couple of vinyl tops. Ya gotta think stretch and shrink. Commit to an edge, secure it firmly, glue ain’t good enough, then pull it hard in the other three directions, it’s possible to shrink some with heat (hair dryer) if there are loose spots. This will pull the foam down also and get you the shapes you’re looking for. Once it’s fitting good, pull it back (sew any seams you may need now that you know where they will be) spray the glue and let it set! If it’s wet it’s not set and will not be as strong as you’ll need for this complex shape. If you just lay it on without pulling enough it’s gonna look like a diaper.
To go back to the “secure it firmly” part, you can go past your intended finished edge and use metal straps and screws or even a strap with a sawtooth pattern that digs into the vinyl. Once in place let it set a day or two- even put it out in the sun for a few hours then remove your straps (if you have to) and trim back to where you need it. It will take some creativity but the main point is you have to have something to pull against in order to stretch.
I'm glad that someone below recommended steam. Different materials, however, will react differently to steam. Some things will shrink and make a better fit. Others as recommended below will stretch and make a better fit. Experiment with scraps.
I seen somewhere in your comments a man with 40yrs experience had said he would help. Give him a call
Even though I don't like to see a man struggle it does help me to know I'm not alone. I often dwell in my current problem too long rather than do something else. It really does help to step away sometimes.
Love your work and am in awe of your motivation.
Love watching your videos you just do such good work. The fire in the old shop is such an old Memory now watching you in your new shop thanks for your videos
My idea would be to put the top outside in the sun with weights hanging off and around the vinyl to pull it into form while the heat from the sun relaxes it
You definitely helped Brent out, I think.
You know something I forgot to tell you most covered tops don't have foam it's just leather or vinyl
Assuming the welds are ground completey smooth lest they translate through the vinyl.
That’s what makes life worthwhile, solving problems.😊
I'd like an inch of your patience 💚🇬🇧🌱 honestly I'd of lost it days ago with this project, sewing is another realm & requires cleanliness unachievable in my workshop... I'm sure you'll get there Brent, keep on trucking 🫶
Use heat gun and pull and stretch the vinyl after stitch and use multiple paper clip to fit then glue it
Call on Ester! She's the best. Great coach/support. You're a lucky man. ALL MEN NEED AN ESTER!
Brent, it looks like you're on the right track, pull , stretch the folds, and cut the extra to the seam, you'll get it, and it will be halfass perfect 👍🍺🍺
im no seamstress but done a little upholstery before your dealing with a double radius, you'll need to cut the side peice in the opposite direction for the radius so when its sewn together it will be in the shape of the roof . kinda like a seat cover thats all ready the shape it needs if i could figure out how to draw a picture on here i could get you a close pic good luck on your journey
Attention you have to spray glue on top of foam. Then center vinyl on foam folding it in half.use heat gun apply to stretch vinyl working from middle out
After one side do same thing to other side
Hi Brent
The heat gun works. It will shrink
The excess.The foam seams too thick find thinner foam might help.
G'day mate, there is one thing I've learnt, stand by your mate, when he is in a fight, she'll be right, adapt and overcome 👍. Hooroo big fella
years ago i worked for a auto upholstery co and the one thing that i was taught when it came to vinal top. less was more. Use a thin sheet of foam rather like 1/4" make sure the grain of your leather front to rear on the top and up and down on the sides. good luck
yo HI again Bad Chad and Jolene from the D MI USA 😁 hey thanks for sharing another great video
ONCE YOU FIGURE IT OUT?- YOU WILL BE ABLE TO DO AGAIN, BUT BETTER, AND THAT'S CALL LEARNING THE HARD WAY - IT MIGHT BE HARD, BUT YOU WILL NEVER EVER - FORGET IT! GREAT VIDEO- THE NEVER GIVE UP VIDEO 👍👍👍👍
You’re a very patient man. Kudos for your hard work. I know you’ll eventually succeed. 👍😎
Brent,
I believe that it is going to be hard to make the flat vinyl fit your very rounded roof. If you want the vinyl look, you might experiment with liquid rubber roofing products. I used Snow Coat and polyester fiber on a plywood trailer that has held up really well for 40 years. I have re-coated it 2 times. Suggest trying saran wrap over the nicely fitted foam, then snow coat, embedding the polyester fiber before it dries. Then many coats of snow coat. I believe that they also make a thicker product to embed the fiber in, which might make it easier to get smooth.
Good luck.
Watching some videos on vinyl wraps may give you some ideas on how you can focus on stretching rather than shrinking or in your case cutting/ stitching. That vinyl you have should stretch ok. Keep it up!
Brent make some clamps to hold the vinyl and use ratchet straps to stretch it to hold it in shape then steam the whole piece that you’re stretching do that all over and you might get it the way you want it
Also Brent if your material doesn't state how much it stretches just clamp one corner of your material to a table, mark it at one metre then stretch it both ways to figure out your ratio of stretch, best wishes
Brent it has been a tassel. I believe before said and done. You will mater this top. Thank you for sharing! So great to to hear Esther laughing with you! 💕💯👊👍
Maybe use your throw away vinyl in place of the foam? Might get rid of the mutt cuts look on the visor. We’re all trying to help, believe it or not. Still great content though. That’s the idea.
HI, I see the frustration, I will try to explain this as best as possible, start out by taping your side pieces on first , then lay a center section ( made paper of some type) over them , it should lay properly while overlapping the side panels, then trim center, allowing for seams, this may solve the issue with the excess material . thank you
Brent fabric it’s similar to sheet metal.. follow the lines that you do to construct the top. That’s why upholsters cut in pieces these things. Good luck my friend.
Minty !
Thank You for sharing your video, and letting us hang out .
Later ...
Hey Brent , Try white Rino bed liner, it will look like vinyl.. apply it inside and out.. Love your builds...
Now that’s a thought.
Brent, Add another layer of foam and then use a heat gun to stretch the vinyl to fit. Dan
Thankyou so much for this video and comments. This videos shows more about making a carson top than any of the old tech articles we all have stared at and read many times. Thankyou
Hey HI again Halfass customs Brent and Ester from the D MI USA 😁 hey thanks for sharing your update on your progress with the Truck and sorry about the apparently no luck with the top😅 but I think your commitment is coming 😊 and someone commented to use a steamer 👍🤩
Like I said if you want the baggy round corner to be taunt you have the heat and stretch everything else after you make you two seams down the side.You need to stretch the materials shape over the shape and hold it like you do when you hold a metal patch with kleeco's. Thats why I suggest in my last message you use bungees while you heat the material to stretch it out enough to loose the baggy on the trouble spots. Kinda like when a person stretches a deer hide on a board ,only your stretching it over a ball. Once you get the material shaped then slowly remove your temporary retainers and then start gluing. Good luck Brent To add Id put a strip of that door edge protector stuff on that lip you made so when you wrap your material around the edge the material won't pinch and slice when you bump the edge setting it in the back. Notice I never used the word shrink.
Keep giving it Brent Coming along Nice lift That’s Kool
Hey Brent ole buddy,Ive done a head liner on a 68 torino this same materials and method, and what i found is you have to also glue the vinyl to the foam,if you dont the wind will make the vinyl ripple like crazy and tear itself up. Just with the windows down in my torino the vinyl rippled against the foam, luckly i had buttons ever so far to hold it together somewhat, love your creativity and tenacity my friend, good luck and God bless
Brent, the last headliner I put in needed heat from a hair dryer to take out the wrinkles. Shop heat guns are too hot for thin vinyl! The first time is always the worst time. Keep on truckin'!
I did door panels some years back and I had to use a heat gun to get the stretch I needed
Can't wait to see what you figure out. That other 4 post is neat. Never seen one like that
Nice job you always figure it out. The Lift you can toss some beams across to the other side and lift the car. I have not seen that before either cool. I think I can use the scissors lift on my quick lift using on top like that and use some supports under it. Cool Lift!
Brent you have so much talent and skill, you got this😊
Amidst all the struggle with the Carsons Top brent your spirits are still positive and thats a win for me...Good to see Buddy more often in the workshop these days...Pablo still gets his belly rub too...All is not doom and gloom yet
Your on the right track. Use the paper more to pattern it. I have even sewn the paper pattern to see if it works correctly.
I think the issue is that you are laying out the pattern from the outside or top of roof Just like seeing a shoulder on a suit jacket, you should work from the underside. Overlap the sides under the center strip so that the roof curve puckering is smooth. Then tape the pieces together and s
Then sew the pieces together. The large overlap below the center strip then can be cut away.
Watch videos about how to make sleeves for shirts. Good luck
Hello Brent, @toddenio3200 has a good point. I would add using upholstery foam, it is dense, can be cut, beveled and glue stacked. You can simulate the bow in the back, cover, pull and heat the cover to fit the shape. Plus the weather does not effect it as bad. To bad it's not metal work or an LS swap. Great Video
Going off all upholstery videos I've seen. find the halfway point where both pieces are starting to get too baggy. That is where you want the seam to be, but maybe mark it out without the foam underneath, this way it will be too small everywhere and require stretching everywhere in order to fit. You're struggling because you're only trying to stretch it where its already too baggy.
Also, as you're using foam, you might simplify the process by welding in holed strips onto which you can attach hog rings, along the seam in order to stretch it along the seam, which will also alleviate the forces placed on the contact adhesive.
Good luck Brent.
Two tips that I hope will help 1 body work the roof because the welding seams will show through 2 use a electric carving knife to cut the foam it is magic 😂😂
A better man than me might get the top in one piece. I would need a seam on each side and one across the back above the rear window. But that's me and my limited upholstery abilities.
Most vinyl tops use landau foam bud. And the very last cut you make is the back window. Start gluing in the center and work your way out to the edges. You first cover would still work if you didn’t cut out the window. Pull it tight ,use heat as far as you can ,and use spray contact adhesive. Make sure it’s “ contact” adhesive. And im not sure how you were planning on finishing the edges, but wire on gimp might fit. Otherwise it will depend on how you finish the headliner inside. Might be able to trim that with a sewn edge.
try too use a cow skinn in sted itsa better material a working With just a god tip Brent 😊
What ever you do, you always find a way, 😊
Pablo is so cool😁
🤔 we have faith in you.....still loookin goood Brent....great to c Esther out there with ya..👍🤠
Brent, you are not allowing for the stretch of the material, most materials tell you what there stretch rate is, wether it's stretches 1cm in a metre, you must cut the top seams narrower that needed then when stretched it will go in position, also you have too much foam, all fabric tops are designed with only about a quarter inch of foam maximum, then starting from the middle center line of the roof glue fabric down, when you have three quarters of the roof glued down you then start steaming and stretching, the rearback section should be smaller than needed so when stretched the seam comes straight and removes the excess from back, but at the same time you have to make sure you double stitch it to ensure you can pull it enough to make seams straight, because of the curve on that roof you may have no choice but to add extra seams, make sure you mark your seam positions about half inch each side further than you have cut the material so you know where it has to be stretched to get seam on the vehicle so when you stretch it it's straight, you also need alot of clamps to hold parts in place while you steam and stretch different sections, don't cut off excess material off bottom ,front and back until it's stretched and glued in place the excess material is needed to pull the top into position, hope this helps, I don't envy you on that top, good luck, best wishes
The steam or hear gun warms the vinyl so when you use the contact glue stretch it and press it in place it will shape up
I was going to suggest that you heat the vinyl to get it to stretch to shape, but I see that someone else has suggested it. Steam and stretch to fit is the best solution I know of.
Looking better. You will get it
Get a roll of 6 mill visqueen clear plastic and make the top with that this way you can take a black sharpy marker and draw it out
That's how he started it in his last video.😉✌
Maybe a lighter weight vinyl would stretch better. Having watched my mother sew curtains for many years the only way to make heavy fabric curve is to use pleats. Look forward to seeing what happens with the top. Can see the advantages with 4-post lifts. The 'new' lift will be a helpful addition to the shop. Be safe and stay well.
Sending good vibes Thanks for sharing 💯
There is also 4-way stretch vinyl that is made to stretch better than the standard stuff. Might be worth buying enough to try on the roof.
Brent you can do it in one piece but it takes a lot of controlled heat and stretch. You can get about 6-8 inches out of vinyl top materials before it gets really ugly.
Don't give up Brent. You'll figure it out. I have faith. Thanks for the video Brent.
I would have given up and grinded the top smooth bodywork it and painted it, but Brent, i got to hand it to you for sticking it out 🫡👍
good show keep at it u'll get it.keep on truckin😎👍
Excellent video Brent :) , Ester :) , Pablo The Supervisor Dog 🐕 , yes Brent only thing say it should go like Vinly use on vechiles cars also does on over sides plus back windows to that I say might work ! Also next hopefully be easier and have big window in back helps on fine tune too!
Make the top like a five window cab and you should have no troubles put two more cab windows in the corners
Maak eerst een patroon met papier voor het vinyl en maak het zo passend mogelijk . Zo zou ik het doen . Een gokje . Mooi om je steeds met een Lach te zien . Je maakt steeds heel mooi werk . Groetjes Marcel
To get rid of bulky edges and make easier to stretch cut foam 1/8 or 1/4 inch back from end of edge where are wrapping vynal around and cut it on a 45deg angle that's worked for me but foam is a little thicker then most people use also but I believe that this will work
You can make a pattern with a material called pattern pellon, you get it at fabric stores . I’m not sure but I think where you have excess material you would work it like you do a neckline by cutting “V”s out right up to the seam to allow the material to lay flat.
I use house wrap to make patterns as it doesn't stretch like plastic does. If you can make that fit then the vinyl should fit as it has a little stretch to it.
Videos aren't long, but sure feel for you and your struggle. "It'll be fine."
Buy material made for landau tops, stretches two ways. Use 1/4 landau foam and one French seam down the middle and glue it down. Heat helps.
''landau tops,'' ??
how about to fit the viny to the roof then strech it over the foam?
You should only add a thinner foam, 1/4 inch will do it.
brent make the centre fitting first ,,,, 1 from front to above rear window,,,,,, then two sides then rear over rear window
Stitch sides to centre when they fit attach rear section so that vinyl is in one without creases then an only then contact glue the vinyl in place Ed
You're doing great! My thoughts are if you're learning, you're winning.
I know materials aren't as easy to get up there but maybe find some similar ( cheap/ discounted) to experiment with.
You'll get it, thanks for bringing us all along for the ride.
Try putting the vinyl on the steel top (no foam) and use a steamer to relax and stretch to the shape of the roof. Let it cool, should retain the shape. Steam is the solution
Also it's gonna relax once you get it in the sun
Get Landau foam, glue it to the top. Mark your lines on the foam. Start with the middle piece cut it out and mark it with sewing lines. Next the side pieces and then sew it together. Read your comments.
Try long tapered spears running from the front to the back so you end up with a sun ray pattern and the wide end of the spears will overlap and conform to the curves. It won't match the bed cover but it could solve the bunching problem.
What I see at 35:33 the side panels need to be cut in a arch where it meets up with the center panel. Try laying some scrap for the side panel and lay a piece for the center and overlap the side panel mark it with chalk, cut it and then sew the two scraps together and see if that will work.
When working with vinyl a heat gun is your friend !!
Good luck Brent
I suggest that the foam is too thick 1/4" to 1/2" is plenty. hen you have to really stretch it tight from the front to back, starting at the center. After attaching it front and back, start really pulling it tight side to side, starting at about 1/2 way back and work it to the back and front corners. I believe that slight heat gun application might be needed. If you can, get a LOT of spring clamps to kinda attach it without gluing. Don't glue it to the foam over the whole area...only at the edges. Ultimately, you may find that your seams are too far appart because you will be stretching the vinyl quite a bit.
One question. What is the backing for the vinyl? There is a big difference between backings that may affect the stretch and strength.
Brent when you stretch it pull opposite to the wrinkles folds, try using some clamps to keep it tight in place, do one piece at a time separately center and sides to get the right patterns for the seam ...
Brent, love your tenacity. Wish I could give you a suggestion, but landau tops are above my pay grade. You are better on this than I am. I know from experience that vinyl stretches and contra ts with temperature. That might work in your favor or against you. Hang in there Buddy. You'll figure it out.
I agree with other who are calling for thinner foam. It seems to be a viable solution. Just my two cents worth.
Boat storage shrink wrap in white ,Ebay has it don't know anything about it. Just a thought. Your the man you will figure it out.