Slms.... Your tafsir may be correct or incorrect (may Allah SWT guide us)..... but it definitely makes more "logical sense" than the traditional translation/ interpretation .....worth further consideration.... Shukran
I recently came across these verses while reading this chapter from Shabir Ahmed trnslation and I was also very confused on the bird. Some say it was a person also and the whole thing was not as supernatural as people actually think. Your thoughts on it being a person?
Yes, I agree with this understanding of Arsh. Allah also has an Arsh and his throne is his "Kursi". Another big point that I think a lot of people just miss with this story in the Quran about Prophet Solomon, is the overall arch of the story from start to finish and the transformation of Prophet Solomons personality: 1. In the beginning we see Prophet Solomon smiling and being grateful to God for his blessings as he is not even willing to trample over ants in a valley. This is going to rapidly change... 2. Fast forward and Prophet Solomon appears agitated that the "Hudud" is no where to be seen and he will KILL it/him if it does not have a valid excuse! Who would want to serve under such a King? There appears to be a dramatic change in Solomons character after the time jump and he appears to be under some sort of test/fitna from God. 3. The Hudhud explains that it found another kingdom that serves the Sun and they have a magnificent "Arsh" (Her ruling platform). 4. Solomon, keeping with this new impatient and suspicious demeanor of his, still does not believe the Hudud and goes as far as saying "we will see whether you are telling the truth!". So Solomon does not appear to trust some of his closest members of his council. In these few verses we see Solomon transform from someone who smiled and would not trample over ants to someone almost becoming a tyrant king who is suspicious of his closest council members and would kill them even for being late! 5. Now the scene shifts to the Queen of Sheba who has received a letter from Solomon and we see a ruler who appears to be humble and says that she will make her own decisions but will heed the council or listen to the council of her advisors. She values their opinions. The advisors themselves even say that it is she who must make the final decision, so they are not the type to deceive her or rule under the shadows. This is a BIG contrast to what we just read about Solomon. Queen Sheba trusts her advisors. She says that often rulers just come and spoil what they conquer and make its most honored people debased, so instead she will send a gift. 6. Back at Solomon, his reaction to receiving the gift is EXACTLY like Queen Sheba predicted. He wants to gather his armies and they will drive them therefrom in abjection and they will be brought low! Solomon even arrogantly says "What God has given me is BETTER than what He has given you!" without having seen her platform (arsh) yet! He asks whether someone can bring her platform which he is hearing so much good things about. 7. When Solomon finally saw it, he has to admit: "This is of the bounty of my Lord, that He might TRY me, whether I am grateful or ungrateful". Solomon realized that God was testing him and he had been behaving as someone who was not grateful but rather was being impatient suspicious and brutal. Peace.
To my knowledge there is nothing about a palace, its her throne that is adorned with jewels, also, it is only solomon that is given power to speak with the animals and control the Jinn, it is a good explanation for the megalith structures around the world, IMO. That aside, I am not sure the story overall has any significance to us, in this time, whats the point of telling it at all then, I wonder? I guess Muhammad was given stories already known to the religions at the time as verification of authenticity? , could that be the reason... It is confusing for a non arabic speaker to try and decipher There are a few translations that say 'commander' instead of 'hoopelo', a few say a different bird. probably 90% are the standard narrative.
You have a Problem with talking birds how about talking hands and feet, you wanna remove that from the Quran? Quran 36:65 This Day, We shall seal up their mouths, and their hands will speak to Us, and their legs will bear witness to what they used to earn.
Metaphorically, with our hands, we perform actions, and with our feet, we move around. What our hands have sent forth and how we used to move (whether it be in acts of service or harm, like invading or crushing) is all recorded and will bear witness. First, understand God-He is not like an ordinary judge in a local court who requires evidence or the arguments of a skilled lawyer. He is God; He does not need our mouth to speak or offer clarifications. Read 99:3-4 and 45:29.
@ a human judge needs evidence to persuade him that the person standing trail is quilty.,but when Allah presents the evidence to you , its to PERSUADE YOU that you are quilty.,so when you deny that you stole something , Allah will make your own hands speak and testify against you
Sealing up your mouth does not mean physically taping it shut. It means you will no longer be in a position to speak after your actions have been broadcasted and made visible. For reference: 2:7 (Khatam Allahu خَتَمَ اللَّه): - In this verse, Allah sets a seal on certain individuals' hearts and hearing, preventing them from understanding guidance. Allah does not become last god. Instead, it indicates a form of divine certification, not an end to hearts and hearing or making the organs last. The process is continuous. 47:24 (Locks أَقْفَالُهَا) - This verse uses the metaphor of locks, suggesting that certain people's hearts are locked or sealed from understanding.
Although human perspectives and beliefs may shift across generations, the underlying principles and laws governing the natural world remain steadfast. Gravity, the laws of motion, and the principles of mathematics have remained consistent throughout history, regardless of human understanding or beliefs. This underscores the idea that truth is not relative, but rather an objective reality that exists independently of human perception.
You've got it nailed on. Arsh is talking about the institution of The Crown.
Excellent, alhamdulillah! God bless you! 👍
Logical and reasonable pondering
Slms.... Your tafsir may be correct or incorrect (may Allah SWT guide us)..... but it definitely makes more "logical sense" than the traditional translation/ interpretation .....worth further consideration.... Shukran
How truthful is his story
Use the intellect God gave you. Don’t look to others: We’ll all stand alone before God come Judgement Day.
I recently came across these verses while reading this chapter from Shabir Ahmed trnslation and I was also very confused on the bird. Some say it was a person also and the whole thing was not as supernatural as people actually think. Your thoughts on it being a person?
Yes, I agree with this understanding of Arsh. Allah also has an Arsh and his throne is his "Kursi".
Another big point that I think a lot of people just miss with this story in the Quran about Prophet Solomon, is the overall arch of the story from start to finish and the transformation of Prophet Solomons personality:
1. In the beginning we see Prophet Solomon smiling and being grateful to God for his blessings as he is not even willing to trample over ants in a valley. This is going to rapidly change...
2. Fast forward and Prophet Solomon appears agitated that the "Hudud" is no where to be seen and he will KILL it/him if it does not have a valid excuse! Who would want to serve under such a King? There appears to be a dramatic change in Solomons character after the time jump and he appears to be under some sort of test/fitna from God.
3. The Hudhud explains that it found another kingdom that serves the Sun and they have a magnificent "Arsh" (Her ruling platform).
4. Solomon, keeping with this new impatient and suspicious demeanor of his, still does not believe the Hudud and goes as far as saying "we will see whether you are telling the truth!". So Solomon does not appear to trust some of his closest members of his council. In these few verses we see Solomon transform from someone who smiled and would not trample over ants to someone almost becoming a tyrant king who is suspicious of his closest council members and would kill them even for being late!
5. Now the scene shifts to the Queen of Sheba who has received a letter from Solomon and we see a ruler who appears to be humble and says that she will make her own decisions but will heed the council or listen to the council of her advisors. She values their opinions. The advisors themselves even say that it is she who must make the final decision, so they are not the type to deceive her or rule under the shadows. This is a BIG contrast to what we just read about Solomon. Queen Sheba trusts her advisors. She says that often rulers just come and spoil what they conquer and make its most honored people debased, so instead she will send a gift.
6. Back at Solomon, his reaction to receiving the gift is EXACTLY like Queen Sheba predicted. He wants to gather his armies and they will drive them therefrom in abjection and they will be brought low! Solomon even arrogantly says "What God has given me is BETTER than what He has given you!" without having seen her platform (arsh) yet! He asks whether someone can bring her platform which he is hearing so much good things about.
7. When Solomon finally saw it, he has to admit: "This is of the bounty of my Lord, that He might TRY me, whether I am grateful or ungrateful". Solomon realized that God was testing him and he had been behaving as someone who was not grateful but rather was being impatient suspicious and brutal.
Peace.
Makes sense 👊🏾
Jin and ins are the two qualities of insan.
To my knowledge there is nothing about a palace, its her throne that is adorned with jewels, also, it is only solomon that is given power to speak with the animals and control the Jinn, it is a good explanation for the megalith structures around the world, IMO.
That aside, I am not sure the story overall has any significance to us, in this time, whats the point of telling it at all then, I wonder?
I guess Muhammad was given stories already known to the religions at the time as verification of authenticity? , could that be the reason...
It is confusing for a non arabic speaker to try and decipher
There are a few translations that say 'commander' instead of 'hoopelo', a few say a different bird.
probably 90% are the standard narrative.
You have a Problem with talking birds how about talking hands and feet, you wanna remove that from the Quran?
Quran 36:65
This Day, We shall seal up their mouths, and their hands will speak to Us, and their legs will bear witness to what they used to earn.
Metaphorically, with our hands, we perform actions, and with our feet, we move around. What our hands have sent forth and how we used to move (whether it be in acts of service or harm, like invading or crushing) is all recorded and will bear witness.
First, understand God-He is not like an ordinary judge in a local court who requires evidence or the arguments of a skilled lawyer. He is God; He does not need our mouth to speak or offer clarifications. Read 99:3-4 and 45:29.
@ a human judge needs evidence to persuade him that the person standing trail is quilty.,but when Allah presents the evidence to you , its to PERSUADE YOU that you are quilty.,so when you deny that you stole something , Allah will make your own hands speak and testify against you
Sealing up your mouth does not mean physically taping it shut. It means you will no longer be in a position to speak after your actions have been broadcasted and made visible.
For reference:
2:7 (Khatam Allahu خَتَمَ اللَّه):
- In this verse, Allah sets a seal on certain individuals' hearts and hearing, preventing them from understanding guidance. Allah does not become last god. Instead, it indicates a form of divine certification, not an end to hearts and hearing or making the organs last. The process is continuous.
47:24 (Locks أَقْفَالُهَا)
- This verse uses the metaphor of locks, suggesting that certain people's hearts are locked or sealed from understanding.
@ thank you sheikh …you go on your merry way …what’s the name of your tafseer? Tafseer whatever I chose it should mean?
@ “sealing doesn’t mean , taping your mouth” 😂,…no kidding …
Rational faculty differs from generation to generation, what was believed 1000 years ago may be a fairytale to us.
Although human perspectives and beliefs may shift across generations, the underlying principles and laws governing the natural world remain steadfast. Gravity, the laws of motion, and the principles of mathematics have remained consistent throughout history, regardless of human understanding or beliefs. This underscores the idea that truth is not relative, but rather an objective reality that exists independently of human perception.
@zeeshamsi1 Correct, thank you, Sir