Piano Sales DOWN 94% in the US - What’s Happening?
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- Опубліковано 8 вер 2024
- livingpianos.c...
Welcome to LivingPianos.com, I'm Robert Estrin. The question today is: What was the peak year for piano sales in the United States? At the turn of the 20th century, before television or radio, the piano was the de facto home entertainment system for families in the United States. Not only that, but player pianos were incredibly popular.
I know my mom decided to get rid of my great-grandma’s piano that we had in our house for two reasons:
1. Tuning costs
But mostly
2. As I progressed and began having to practice more, my parents and siblings didn’t always appreciate hearing scales or my repeating of passages over and over again.
I’ve had my current digital piano for about 15 years now, and it’s survived the moving process 8+ times. I always appreciate the chance to play a real piano though, and plan on purchasing one once I settle down. But for now, my digital piano is my most prized possession I love that thing 😂😊
I love my digital synth workstation, but there's truly more personality and life in an honest-to-goodness Piano. Each one feels so different from the next. You can feel the sound and the mechanics of everything making the sound in your feet and fingers.
The upright piano in my mother's living room isn't exactly a showroom piece, but it feels and sounds like home. It plays like nothing else I've played.
I have my Grandmother’s old Howard upright from 1925. She was a church pianist and I have many happy memories of her practicing for church and just playing for fun. The piano isn’t rare or valuable, but it is still priceless to me. I hope to be able to pass it on to my son someday.
In the 1970s, the piano was still a focal point when I was growing up. My mother was a church organist and accompanist for soloists and singing groups. After Sunday dinners, we would sing around the piano all the new numbers from musicals like Man of La Mancha and Camelot. Also, a lot of classical music.
I wish a Sunday dinner would come over and punch me right in the Gigachad!!
Same!
color tv was fairly new and home computers weren't really a thing yet though
When you know how to hear a real piano, you will understand even the best digital emulations can never correctly simulate a real piano. There are elements in the sound and experience which are outside the paradigm of mimicry. Digital pianos are wonderfully convenient and have their utility. If you can have a real piano however, it is a powerful and inimitable experience.
I have both and I use my digital piano only when I’m working something in my upstairs office and don’t want to go downstairs to my acoustic piano, or, when I need to play without disturbing others in the house. The acoustic one sounds SO much better. It’s like the difference in listening to music with earbuds vs speakers or really good headphones.
I only have a digital piano, but also play classical guitar and can appreciate the acoustic nuance of a very tactile instrument. Although a piano is less tactile, I have this gut feeling that most digital pianos fail to fully hypersample above the forte range of dynamics. Digital might also be lacking some form of sympathetic resonance (with or without pedal) that certain chords might coax out of the instrument -- especially when the keys are being pummeled.
That being said, I appreciate how my digital piano is always in tune and mechanically reliable. I've encountered too many acoustic pianos that were in ill-repair and probably more than a mere tuning.
Sound libraries sound better than digital pianos and even better than a real cheap piano, because they are the samples of expensive pianos. There are other benefits out of them: recording process, it is cheaper, it can be better for apartments for example (because of space and you can control the level of the sound). Actually they sound pretty close to a real piano (example VSL synchron libraries, Imperfect Samples Fazioli (complete or extreme version), CFX full by Garritan). Good real pianos on the other hand are usually for privileged people with enough money to afford them and enough space in their rooms. Actually most of the people cannot identify the difference between a real piano and a sample library in a recording, and for some works it may not be a big difference. The main difference may be in the feeling for the performer and the live sound. A producer or composer may not be over worried about this. So all depends on your needs, the money you have available, and your preferences. I do agree that digital pianos are still far from a real piano. But as you said these have advantages as well and a purpose.
@Donetur libraries are nice but the playability leaves so much to be desired. I just tried vsl fazioli vst and it sou ds nice, but it plays terrible unless you program the hell out of it to fit your controller. If you're using it for production alone, then yes they can be a nice viable option.
@@MarianoPerezSoundCloud, Fazioli in Cave, that is such a beautiful VI
I hate to see interest wane in any instrument, and while I love the look of the grand piano it is just too difficult a purchase for my family and we bought an electric Yamaha. It certainly isn't the real thing but it is close, and for a student / hobbyist it is a great choice. I can easily move it, humidity isn't an issue, tuning isn't an issue, there were just too many advantages to buying an electric piano vs. even a free upright.
Robert you play beautifully. I've watched your videos on virtual sheet music for years.
Would’ve been interesting to know the piano price averages / ranges back 100+ years ago, along with average household income figures, compared to today.
At the beginning of the 20th century, a piano represented a year's income. Today, a high quality piano is less than 25% of yearly income on average with lower end uprights being significantly less than that.
@@LivingPianosVideos yes but what about housing and food costs back then? Now they take up like 95% of our income. Who has money left for an acoustic piano? And if you buy a grand piano you probably need a detached home. In my location an average (read builder basic) detached home is about $1M USD.
@@LivingPianosVideosthat is fascinating! I was expecting something quite opposite.
@@Classical416 HOUSING AND FOOD IS NOT 95% XDDDDDDDDDDDD
so many normies r literally so incapable of "budgeting" they have like 5 different monthly subscriptions, always doordash food and/or eat fast food, and give in to buying many useless things then ask themselves where the money all went
@@woah2560you’re not going to save $1m for a house by cutting back on your starbucks. Some people legitimately live paycheck to paycheck making what you’d imagine is a fortune.
Robert, I wish you all the best and may you sell enough pianos to get by!
Robert, if you haven’t done this already, I’d suggest a video on used pianos. There are a huge number of them out there there, and you get to support piano technicians/tuners, your neighbors who need to earn a living just like anyone else.
The problem with used pianos is that they range from precious gems to literal garbage, and for a huge portion of that range require a professional evaluator to determine the difference. As the years go by, those professionals are harder to find, and therefore more expensive. Then even when you find a piano that is worth preserving, the cost of moving it into your house and restoring it to its best condition is itself a massive financial and time sink burden. I was tempted for a while by all those stories of "free" used pianos available, but quickly learned that it is the most expensive "free" you'll likely encounter in your lifetime, at least until the zoos start giving away free elephants
Im a piano teacher. I have digital piano but i do lessons at my students homes.
I tell people not to get a real paino until they are settled and they know what piano they want and they want to continue to play.
I don't have a real piano because i would love to have a grand piano. I live in an apartment. Size is an issue and i don't want to deal with tuning and maintaining yet.
Im grateful for the advances in the sound of my piano but i know there absolutely no replacement of sound and feel of a real piano. I still like to read out of physical books. I feels better. I don't mind reading articles or doing research on line so there is a place for both situations there too.😊
This is interesting, I always wondered how piano sales were going these days. I'm guessing a lot has to do with the rise of digital (I have one), and the digital keep getting better. Also a big factor is digital are lightweight, and people move around a lot more then in the past. As you know the real deal weighs a ton!!!
Yes during this video I went from wondering if he was counting digital pianos, to realizing he wasn’t, to realizing he knew he wasn’t, to realizing it was probably clickbait, to realizing it was an ad for his business.
@@rxw5520 Ok that's funny. LOL
@@rxw5520
Nothing wrong with him promoting his business. Anyone making videos on UA-cam is trying to make money, and if they're not they're trying to promote what they're passionate about; and he's doing both. I don't see an issue. Not clickbait.
True. Our economy and lifestyles are far more flighty; less grounded than our ancestors. Most people can't stay in one place long enough to accommodate a piano unfortunately. Digital fills just enough of the void for most casual musicians, always perfectly tuned to A440 unless otherwise directed, lightweight, headphone friendly, etc. I'm sure if people in the early 20th century had this technology their piano market would look much the same as ours.
it coulda possibly have been considered blasphemy heh@@bcj842
It really is hard to justify an acoustic piano vs a digital nowadays. Unless you're a concert pianist or a full on audiophile that happens to be a pianist, the range (like in terms of it's "modes" of use such as acting as a midi controller,) ease of use, and price of digital is unbeatable.
Yep. I very often use the alternative sounds of my digital piano. From various synths, harp, celesta and many others.
It massively changes the music.
There are so many plus sides to digital. I'm still relatively new and beginner. Maybe if I get good enough, I'll one day want both an acoustic and digital. But for now, I'll remain with a digital one.
Thank you for the work you are doing! My personal piano, like yours, is a Baldwin SF 10 from 1961 and I also have a 1916 Bechstein upright. I could never have afforded either of these instruments new. However, thanks to rebuilders/reconditioners like you, at least some of these pianos have found a new life. Just as importantly, given the astronomical costs of new instruments, they are now within the reach of more people.
don’t forget all the cardboard and particle board used in especially Korean Chinese productions. A good old American Mason Hamlin or my favorite actually a 1990 Kimball Grand Piano- high real wood quality… i love them- i can’t even get a used rebuilt bosi- so expensive.
@@3blenders I don't think any piano is made with cardboard or particle board. Those materials are utterly incapable of supporting the insane stresses found in a piano. Literally measured in tons.
Took lessons growing up, let my skills fall by the wayside when I studied voice in college. Just bought a used upright 4 months ago, and it's one of the better decisions I've made. Long live the piano!
Pianos are such high quality items that last for a century that customers from 1909 and their descendants will not visit a piano shop again at least for 100 years.
I did my part. I bought a new Yamaha baby grand in 2022.
I first realised the penetrating power of a piano when I lived in student's halls of residence. It was a two-storey building. My room was on the _upper_ floor. There was a piano on the _ground_ floor at the other end of the building... but I could hear that piano inside my room. Of course the place wasn't built to a high standard, but it was still impressive!
Nowadays I live in a flat... with a digital piano.
"STILL Living" Pianos 😊
My 1941 Baldwin L was one of the last pianos they made in the Cincinnati factory before converting over to building war planes. It is a glorious instrument that I did have restored, and it is perfect for me.
I am extremely saddened that so many quality pianos are just being given away for scrap.
I love the flexibility of digitals too, but there's just no replacement for a quality acoustic piano.
I check the ads daily and am not seeing quality pianos for sale on the used market. All I see is junk that people just want hauled off, or scams. Even quality Chinese brands are expensive. I have a nice Kawai organ I purchased in the early 2000’s I paid $3000 for that I cannot give away. It works perfectly but I can’t find a small church or school that wants the thing. There is no used market for these instruments.
@@tommaxwell429 I live in a rural area, and I've seen Hammond m3s not being able to be given away. People just aren't willing to make the drive with the truck and with bodies to pick it up and haul it off when digital Hammond replicas do a decent enough job.
@@tommaxwell429 Hmm...I have a church that would really appreciate the gift of an organ or a piano.
Love my piano, a Yamaha C3 studio grand, my daily reliable partner, checked off the bucket list twenty years ago. Wish I'd been around a hundred years ago for the daily family singing, and frequent home music production, even up to my parents era they sang at home as a family. The microchip has killed all that. Bring back the Luddites ; )
That was really interesting! That explains why we are down to a tiny fraction of piano manufactures nowadays.
I grew up with an Everett upright built sometime in the 80’s that was hardly cared for over time. It basically became a part of my Mom’s furniture and was moved to 4 different homes before eventually being hauled off by the first taker. It fell out of tune, had poor regulation, dead keys, broken music stand, and pedal issues. I played many digital pianos for years since, dreaming of owning an acoustic. After my most recent move I purchased a new upright for my own home. It’s well taken care of, and tuned at least twice a year. It’s a Yamaha P22 that sounds absolutely beautiful especially after a fresh tuning. Even the most expensive digital pianos and synths I play can’t compare to the sound of a real piano, even though it’s an upright. My long term goal is to one day have a grand piano, and the right acoustics to appreciate it as I’ve heard some that just floor me with how pretty they sound.
The top level digital pianos these days absolutely stack up very well against an upright.
@@Biozene I’m not sure how to explain it, but to me no matter how good they are; digital pianos always sound like *a recording* of a really nice, expensive piano. Even the spruce cone speaker in the Clavinova CLP-785 doesn’t make it sound like a real harp and soundboard. Digitals do sound tremendous, especially when you dial in the mic preamp and effects just right they sound out of this world, but every time I play an acoustic upright or hear a nice grand in an auditorium; the base and resonance just hits me differently than through high end studio monitors/subs. A worn out or out of tune upright however is an abysmal experience by comparison.
A very interesting video-- a sad state of affairs, indeed, the decline of piano sales and interest. Your point about a huge drop in sales when the radio arrived shows us this is not a new phenomenon. I love the piano, started playing by ear very early in life as i heard my family play. It takes many years and the desire to do it. Time and effort are well worth it for those who stick with it. Thank you for all you wonderful videos and information 🎹👏
We have a musical instrument store in town in Valencia, Spain which sells new Kawai, Yamaha and even Steinway pianos. They also sell digital keyboards, which the owners refer to collectively as, "toys". They have a beautiful performance hall in the back of the showroom where they showcase local talent. Go to any important venue in Spain, and you're likely to see one of their pianos. They are almost single-handedly keeping acoustic piano alive in this country.
Those "toys" are far more affordable, take up less space, and require far less maintenance than even an upright model acoustic piano. You don't need to give them their own room, have them regularly tuned, or take out a second mortgage to pay for one.
Bonus: you can plug in a pair of headphones and nobody else has to listen to you learn.
Robert...great video. In 1990 I became the fortunate owner of a completely
restored Mehlin Grand from the 1920s with a PianoDisc system. How we
all enjoyed it! What a wonderful sound. Once I have the space for another
I assure you I shall be "on the hunt"!!
"
I'm guessing the improvements in digitals have been the biggest influence in the decline of acoustic sales. An acoustic is an investment and needs to be cared for. A digital can just sit in the corner and collect dust and be wiped down and played at a moment's notice. Like many others, I bought used. I have a rebuilt 1918 Mason & Hamlin AA that was "affordable". New, that model retails for almost what I paid for my house.
I guess some of the decline are due to the fact of reduces in piano player. Younger generation prefer other form of entertainment. And Current generation of parents does not expose classical music to kids
Price is only secondary factor i believe. Even Rolax watch is price, they can't make fast enough to meet the demand.
Piano skill is not something money can buy..
Yet the acoustic ones became mostly stagnant since the early 20th century, so they couldn't compete with digital pianos and are very incovenient in many aspects (size, weight, price and maintenance). There are already prototypes of lighter pianos, pianos which take longer to go out of tune, many promising ideas to significantly reduce their size, complexity and cost, ...
I doubt it's the digital piano, more like learning piano is a real skill that takes effort most kids don't have to give anymore when they can mindlessly kill time on an iPad instead
Also size. I can't have a piano at home. My digital piano keyboard comes close to a piano. And the size is perfect.
@@Grr8jonAnd square grand pianos existed in the past with a size similar to digital pianos, maybe all of their problems could be fixed with modern ideas.
I grew up in a modest home, and never had the opportunity to take piano lessons. We certainly didn’t have room for a piano in a 1000 square-foot home with six people. my mother bought me a tiny Magnus keyboard with less than two octaves, and from that I learned basic chords. I bought a piano for $400 in the early 1980s from someone who couldn’t keep up the payments. I taught myself to play that piano. 20 years later I was tapped to fill in as a keyboardist/pianist for a church and have been a church pianist keyboardist for nearly 30 years. we have moved around since then, but I can always find a “job“. I can play contemporary music or traditional hymns, and that’s becoming a rare skill.
oh that’s sad. I still have my original piano but the one I use at church is a grand piano. I have a secondhand Roland weighted full keyboard that I rarely use, because I much prefer the feel of a real piano. I can express myself much better on an acoustic piano. It’s wonderful therapy.
A well maintained piano will last for decades. I mean, the one my wife learned to play on in the 60s is in my house right now.
In the UK I often see decent pianos offered for free if collected. Digital pianos, and software emulations, seem to have replaced acoustic heavy-weights for most people. Being able to use headphones and volume control is also another advantage for those who want to practice and play at home with people living on top of each other; and space is another problem when considering a 'real' piano.
Don't forget that there are also digital piano's, or in my case more specifically software piano's. I owned a grand piano years ago, and even selected it from the factory in Germany; a lovely instrument, but also got out of tune after a while. I got away with it for several reasons and now have a software piano: keyboard, speakers, laptop with Pianoteq software (and a stand) for a fraction of the price of a great acoustical instrument; never gets out of tune, plays like a grand, and has a wealth of instruments to choose from from a Steinway grand to a 1796 Broadwood. Every tone and interaction is calculated through physics, incredibly realistic, nothing recorded.
Agree 100%. Pianoteq is a marvel.
You might have noticed that in some of Robert's earlier videos he is using some kind of a mechanical action keyboard that triggers the pianoteq software.
He described the instrument as a prototype, but I haven't seen it in a while and I don't know what the status is of the invention. In any case, I think Robert is pretty aware of where the trends of his business are going.
Thank you for this piano history lesson
I'm 72 now but when I was around 30 yrs old I worked part time for a man who had a shop in his home
His main business was moving pianos, but he bought pianos that needed work and restoration
Well, he didn't do refinishing, only getting those beautiful 52" to 54" pianos back into shape
He taught me how to resurface hammers, replace bridle straps clean etc. and if the keys were too far gone to replace them with plastic key tops
He had a special machine that would cut the top of the keys just right so you could replace the ivory with plastic key tops
You would then glue the new key tops on each key and put weights on top until the glue dried
Then I'd have to use a hand file to make sure the keys fit properly
As you well know, that's because no two pianos have the exact specs. and the new keys were ...close but the rest was hard work on my part, filing and filing until he said "They're Ready Now"
However,
I enjoyed being a part of bringing back a wonderful instrument that some people wanted to get rid of (UGH)
Thank you for restoring these pianos.....we can't let them go away
All the best,
Dave W
If you still enjoy doing that kind of piano work, we have a need for someone with your skills here at Living Pianos! Robert@LivingPianos.com
I would argue that perhaps piano sales aren't actually down by 94%, but instead that the market has transitioned toward electronic replacements such as MIDI-controllers, synthesizers or other electronic instruments with a piano-based design ethos. Certainly the sale of traditional, fully analog, stringed pianos are down, but that's not quite the same thing as saying the sale of pianos as a whole is down.
Thanks so much for your efforts to preserve America's piano culture, Robert! I for one am going to buck the trend; I am an adult beginning student that currently uses a digital piano but plans to eventually have a "traditional" piano in my home one day (once I get my skills up and have more room to put the instrument). I am very interested in the phenomenon of piano rolls because in my haphazard collecting of vintage vinyl LPs I have purchased some recordings of legendary performers (Paderewski, Busoni to name two) which were created based on piano rolls. In the case of the Busoni album it is a collection of pieces the maestro recorded for the Duo-Art piano, which seems to be to have been a technological wonder of the time! Supposedly these recordings are very faithful to the performer's playing and style (apparently they used an engineer to capture the dynamics and other subtleties). Listening to these records I wouldn't have been able to tell they were produced from rolls without reading the cover notes! I hear Teresa Careno recorded some rolls; I would love to find an album based on those. Cheers!
Of course, a lot of those rolls have been transferred to digital technology as well.
The crazy expensive new steinways have a digital library of renditions where the key action actually reproduces the playing.
I very much like Yamaha C7 that I practice on. Unfortunately, it is not my piano and I may never be able to have grand piano at home.
Thank you for your videos,
Michael
Nothing is quite as “alive” yet versatile as an acoustic piano. Unlike most instruments, one can play it in basically every genre. Music education is another part of the process. Playing music is a way to cope with tough things, but learning music also teaches people how to group and break things down in a strategic process. That’s major preparation for handling situations big and small.
Piano is a skill, but a powerful and versatile one at that. The time people spent locked down gave time to get into hobbies including music. Personal time and a popular culture that values learning music must be a way to preserve the fine skill even as popular genres change.
I don’t think it is needed to compare piano with other instruments, all of them can have their purpose and utility. For me actually there are instruments I like more than the piano, and I do love the piano a lot.
@@Donetur I was just trying to find a solution for keeping the piano alive. Part of that is to flex its ability to play basically any music genre, and to promote music education including by popular artists.
I have a Yamaha Clavinova CLP735, which doubles as my audio interface and MIDI keyboard - it's a fully capable USB audio interface when hooked up to my PC running FL Studio.
Used to have a Petrof Model 125 upright but it produced much too big of a sound for use in an apartment building, even with the centre pedal activated.
The market is also pretty well saturated. They aren't something you just replace every 5 years. On the contrary! Even a decently nice piano will last many many decades!
Look at the average wage in America vs the cost of living over time. On average it's like 41% of your monthly paycheck goes to housing
SUPER INTERESTING INFO...WOW THAT MANY SOLD ....THANK YOU ROBERTOBFOR THE JOY YOU GIVE US !!!!!
Thank you, Robert 🌹⭐🌹⭐ Great history lesson!!!
I have a digital piano and love all the extra options.
My "Piano" is one of the digital instruments included in my Synthesizer, and VST Plugins. If you look at it from the standpoint of various types of "digital keyboards," sales might be at an all time high. From that point of view, I probably have about 30 "Pianos."
This is shocking but not surprising. In North West London during the 1970's & 80's in my local town there were quite a few music shops selling piano's guitars, drums etc and were there for many years until in the early 1990's they all started to disappear and until of late there are none. In fact, even in the centre of London now there are not many places to buy instruments any more. BUT, if you wish to buy software and all the other technical accoutrements to create the synthetic noise you hear today well, you can buy them in many places on line and other shops but to buy a good ole instrument which we have to play with our good ole hands the shops are far and few between. A Sad indictment of the state of global musical affairs.
The player piano is immortalized in the Laurel & Hardy 1930s short "The Music Box".
Its interesting you mention 1978 as a peak year. In 1977, our family piano was sold. I was the only one who played and everyone else wanted a colour tv instead. Gives a hint as to reasons for the decline
While I appreciate that your figures are accurate, it is highly depressing for those who love the instrument and the music. While I enjoy what synthesizers and other electronic keyboards do, nothing replaces the tactile sound of wood, metal, and felt to those who really know the beauty of music. A Fazioli or Bosendorfer or Hamburg Steinway...heck, even a good Japanese Yamaha can never be duplicated by a soulless electronic instrument. Keep up the fight. I am not the only one who feels this way.
That's like saying, it's a shame people don't buy Ferrari and Astin Martin. Those are real cars compared to the toys Hyundai or Honda produce.
Ya if you put in that much money it's obviously better. But at the same price I would always select digital because they don't need maintenance and quality degradation.
Probably after 2 to 3 years a digital will actually sound better then acoustic which is not maintained.
Soulless r affordable only rich orientals buy mostly in la or orange county cal they got the $$$$$$$$$
That's like saying why spend on a car when you can have a scooter without all that expensive maintenance. Why spend so much on a mobile phone when a payphone doesn't break easily? Maybe you are just cheap? 😂
@@Pilosoposporo you are replying to me right?
If you are not then ignore me, I completely misunderstood what you are trying to say.
Yes I am being cheap that was my entire point, its important for people to still be able to peruse their interests without needing to spend millions.
I can make the exact opposite argument:
Do you own a Villa? a Supercar? a Steinway? you dont? why are you so cheap?
I might be being a bit rude with my last point but being cheap when you cant afford a piano is fine, I feel like you are insulting people for not buying pianos.
My acoustic upright was manufactured in 1840, it has been with the same family since 1880. It is still playable although tuned a semitone lower.These days I mainly play my electric piano 🎹
It must be a gift to own an upright piano from the romantic era. It is something Chopin himself could haved played if given the opportunity; no doubt the sound is something unique and very different to the modern "fuzzy" piano.
I love the real thing but its hard to justify for most people. Cost of living is reducing the overall size of space people can afford, and maintenance costs are totally impractical for many. Tuning in my area is a minimum $225.
Where is this? I’m in the mid Atlantic in USA and it’s around $120-140.00
@@janking2762 In Seattle, it is $200-$300 and even higher for a properly trained tuner. Self-taught tuners with an app can be had for less.
Ohio@@janking2762
My grandparents bought a player about 1920. They must have used every cent they had to buy it. The player mechanism has been repaired twice, and has a very honky-tonk sound. My sister now has it and many of the piano rolls. I have a few of the old rolls because they are so interesting, like your video today!
As far as modern pianos, I have a1970's Yamaha upright that will be hitting the used market. Getting it tuned is not worth the money for this plunker. For the cost of 2 tuneups in one year, I can buy a $500 with great piano sounds and never need tuning.
I am one of four grown children in a family 9n which 50% of us own and play a piano.
I’m still playing my Kawai my parents bought me in the 80s. It gets tuned once a year and aside from that, it’s never needed any other maintenance. Why abandon her for another piano when her superior replacement would cost me probably $100k or so?! When I die, this Kawai will still be a great piano for someone else.
In addition to tuning, you should also have the action regulated periodically, as well as the hammers shaved (as they harden with time). These are critical aspects of piano maintenance.
Some good points there. What are the numbers in USA for digital pianos?
About 1/4 million!
What are the sales on digital pianos? Since Digitals tend to be more affordable, one can attach a headphone to them (so you can practice anywhere quietly) - and the models are becoming more realistic in sound every year.
Digital pianos are pianos as well. They're real pianos. It's just that we have technology these days that don't limit us to having fully mechanical systems. The essence of piano is loud/soft control. And both acoustic pianos and digital pianos have the loud-soft control of notes.
Digital pianos are to acoustic pianos what cameras are to painting. Both have artistic merits, but they are different mediums of expression.
@@LivingPianosVideos Nice analogy. One could also say more people use cameras than practice painting. But probably because it is easier hobby to set up. Thx for your reply.
@@LivingPianosVideos One person rightfully said that acoustic pianos technically become digital pianos when they are recorded digitally, or when the video of playing acoustic piano is broadcasted on modern tv, or internet.
I think people just don't have the space anymore. I had one - well, my parents got it for me when I was a child - an old Baldwin Arcosonic that someone had painted light blue, with gold accents. It was beautiful. It was already old when my parents saw it in the window of a furniture showroom and fell in love with it. But my mom, who had it in her home for years, is now moving to a senior community and I have no room in my apartment for it. While I was never GOOD at playing it, I had fun trying, and I loved that thing. But neither of us have the space anymore.
She's giving it to the children of her realtor who is going to sell her house. I'm glad that it's going to a home where it will be used and appreciated. I hope the kids will have space for it when they grow up. Digitals may be nice (and more importantly, for this day and age, probably easier to store and move around) but there's nothing like a real acoustic piano.
Still ❤️. Loving music..
Thank you!
Just finished respectfully rehabbing a 1902 Schaff Bros. 57" upright grand piano. Chicago made with an original NY Wessell, Nickel & Gross action. Strong bass. Original iron strings. Edwardian, mahogany case. Ivory keys. Big, wonderful rich tone. Blues is home here, oh yeah. Save a great antique piano if you can. Love the big uprights. Fats Waller played them.
You briefly mentioned digital pianos, but if you include these your numbers would increase by 100x or more. There must be at least 100 different manufactures of Dpianos today. If each manufacturer sells 10,000 pianos that is another one million pianos in American homes today. If you include all keyboards with piano sounds in them, I would project 3 million homes with piano access. And that is each year, another 3 million next year. How many of the sales are limited to America I don't know.
I am a solo pianist performing my compositions on whatever acoustic stage piano is there. But at home in my tiny apartment, I only use a digital piano with headphones, for the love of my neighbors and so I am not evicted. I have been using digital pianos at home for over 35 years now, this is the first year in all these years they have finally made a digital piano I would call an instrument. I am also a recording engineer and audiophile; I am extremely critical of the sound of a piano. Today I am playing a digital piano that I love playing, they finally made it, a digital that satisfies my professional needs for quite practice at home from 4:00am to 8:00am.
One problem is that a population raised on the 2D sounds produced by electric speakers (whether recorded or from electronic "versions" of instruments) cannot truly appreciate the rich, full quality of 3D sounds produced by physical instruments. All electronics produce mere facsimiles, and nothing more.
I don't think acoustic pianos are going to die, especially since I just found out some makers are building 9 octave grands (tops the 96 key Bosendorfer). In the 1920s, pianos were for the masses, but now they're for the well-off. Computers and iPhones have replaced pianos for many. But, 234,000 digital pianos were sold in 2021.
I have a Roland FP 10, 2 Yamaha keyboards, a Panasonic keyboard and an FM mod. Been studying with Piano Marvel for 2 yrs now. Played trumpet professionally for 10 yrs.
I finally ended up with Yamaha Disklavier
The 1st was an old 1991 Yamaha C3 - ‘Wagon Grand’ Disklavier …. Then later found a good deal on a Yamaha DGC1 - (a Disklavier GC1 Baby Grand (5’3 ft.) .
To be able to actually record physical performances (stored in MIDI file ) is such a dream .
To watch an acoustic piano play back so accurately exactly what was just performed on it if such an amazing feature & aspect of a Yamaha Disklavier , then of cost the nice sound of a Yamaha grand piano …. Etc …
Nowadays, people are struggling to make ends meet since salary increase can't keep up with the inflation rate. The piano is considered a luxury item and, thus, people have to prioritize food and shelter over the piano.
I inherited my mothers 1934 Neumeyer baby grand piano. I am the third owner. It was recently tuned and cleaned. Its far from perfect but it is in great condition and i love the sound and feel of it. The world needs more piano players!
During lockdown, piano sales were up in Oregon
Now am the proud owner of a Yamaha P22. Got it tuned and it sounds amazing. Hopefully I can learn to tune it myself soon.
Fascinating. I live in a terraced house in Wallasey, England and bought a new Kawai digital piano earlier this year so that I can play without disturbing my neighbours, but I would have much preferred to buy an acoustic piano. I wonder how much this issue affects overall "real" piano sales?
you should have bought your neighbors a set of ear mufflers together with you acoustic 9’ grand Bosendorfer to make it worth your neighbors noise ordinance.
There's something like 75,000 working parts in a conventional piano...all made of wood and felt (stuff expands, contracts, warps, degrades, etc.) . A regular piano weighs a lot (ever move a player piano - weigh about as much as a Volkswagen), they have to be tuned, soundboards can crack, tuning pins can get loose, moving them often requires a specialty moving company......etc. Now: Standing next to an actual acoustical piano and a digital piano (which is relatively portable) and listening to them, granted, is not the same experience. But for a lot of people who simply want to learn to play, or who play casually, a digital piano simply makes a lot more sense. Repairs are infrequent (I have a Yamaha Clavinova CVP65...circa 1993) and it's never needed a repair. If money and a certain amount of inconvenience just don't matter buy an acoustic piano - otherwise, in my opinion, a digital piano makes more sense for most people. A digital piano, too, is good ear training for kids - the things are always perfectly in tune. I don't know how many hundreds of times I've gone into people's houses and heard acoustic pianos that were out of tune - I mean, they're always out of tune to some degree. They're often badly out of tune. Their kids play the things and never get the pitch training you get naturally from playing something that's always in tune. I used to sell pianos - there are a lot of reasons sales are declining. Anyway, I just listed some of the reasons. Frankly, I think a lot of people just want the furniture....the look of a piano, especially some form of grand. I get it. But for most people a digital piano is a lot more practical. Pianos, anymore, are like home organs - I see people giving the things away on local swap sites.
I grew up playing a Baldwin spinet piano. And I love its pure sound. So I bought a used one recently. And I am enjoying immensely. I will be looking to upgrade at some point to one in better condition.
My family had 3 acoustic pianos when I was in high school sone 45 years ago. A very large 1890s upright, a 1940s spinet and a 1970s baby grand. We gave them all away. I now have a Roland and Yamaha digital pianos that I use in my band. I have no desire to ever own an acoustic piano again. Portability and never a need to re-tune makes all the difference.
When I arrived in Hawaii 15 years ago, there were 4 piano dealers in Hawaii. Now there’s one. The decline has been that fast. I have a 1908 Steinway. I hadn’t been played in over 90 years when I got it in 2005 or so. The hammers were untouched, the keyboard flawless. My precious now.
My grandmother bought a gorgeous Ivers & Pond in 1950, IMHO the most beautiful upright piano ever made. Its panels have carved branches, leaves, and flowers. I grew up learning on it in the 1960s, and eventually inherited it. The piano needs restoration, but I tune it and play it "as is." Its imperfect, yet beautiful tone cannot be matched by any digital instrument.
I think digital is taking over. They are cheaper, don't need tuning and are portable and relatively cheap. Also you can wear headphones and play digital any time.
A lot of newer homes don't have good space for pianos, with their open floor plans, minimal wall space, and lack of formal rooms. That and the economy just isn't as great as it used to be.
I have been watching the local used piano trade and for sale classifieds (KSL in Salt Lake City). i have been correlating the numbers for sale with the economy and found that since 2022 at a bottom low of 450 due to demand, it has now nearly doubled to 880. we are heading into a depression, first a deflation demand but a push for need to increase prices- a difficult situation. normally over the years the piano classifieds would hover about 550 to 600 available. supply is definitely now outpacing demand. And yes, this includes the digital crap available. now everyone knows how i feel about acoustic pianos. it’s just no sound comparison. i feast on the sound of my blooming 6’ 7” Kimball Viennese Classic Grand Piano. you can’t replace the ambiance and resonance, the echo and lingering of the tone carrying throughout my living room.
I did my part. I bought a brand new Kawai GL10 in 2022 and then traded that in for a brand new Kawai GL40 just a few months ago.
Well at least you have this channel.
I love pianos, but became a classical/opera singer. In my 20s I purchased a Bechstein in Heldelberg, Germany where I was stationed as a member of the 7th Army Soldiers' Chorus. Long story, that led to a "surprise" career as a singer. The Bechstein was shipped to my home state of Iowa. After being in my family home, I had it hauled to the 3rd floor of an apartment. When I moved to NYC to pursue singing, my family helped me move down an outside staircase and almost lost it a couple times. We took it to my brother's home in Davenport and it has remained there for many years until he recently sold their house, so they gave it to another family member. Having worked with fine pianists and played enough myself, I realize tht it isn't great instrument, so i now see that the action is not great and judge it rather harshly, though I still value its history. My brother's jazz pro pianist thinks it's great . . . totally different technical demands! I could go on an on about pianos, and now have an upright Koehler & Chase which I purchased in San Francisco where I live. I refinished to remove that dark old varnish and it now has a reddish hue. As a singer, I don't require a high end piano, though I wish I could afford one. Amazingly, it mostly stays in tune, especially since I rarely have it tuned. Moving it here in SF is another tale, including a crane, but that's for another day. Thanks for supporting these fine old pianos. One of my favorite songs, though I wish I'd have the resources to improve the voice piano balance: ua-cam.com/video/v46mXeNIZW0/v-deo.htmlsi=1CSOkSYKqnJUBqGK
Do you know I had a square grand piano from 1865 during the Civil War and I actually ended up donating it to Altier shoes and they used it in their display window.
It did display quite a few shoes !
😊So it wasn't completely wasted
Dear Living, You're living your love, a lilting lead-up to a commercial. Very slick and savvy. Many people today are buying e-pianos and synths, and some are interested in programming and providing beats for the music business.
One must blueprint the musical journey from the outset since *bread* is the main objective.
Learn the music business *first* before venturing.
Music can be a dutty business with them *teef and swine* clawing at your dignified soul.
I am glad you mention the grain of salt; sometimes old pianos are restored or almost rebuild. One UK shop, Roberts Pianos (also on UA-cam) has show restoration of many grands which were very, very old. I would love to play on an old restored instrument.
You mention "Digital Pianos" which we purists of course are very critical towards, but I have experienced situations where I would prefer a digital piano, not necessarily expensive, like Yamaha P45, which even offers some sounds which a modern musician would like to experiment with.
My impression is piano music is doing quite well right now, but most people are playing digital rather than analog. I am ashamed to say I play a digital Technics digital piano, for two reasons: headphones, and MIDI controller. If I could plug an analog piano into my computer for transcription, I would buy one in a second!
Isn't there a fancy Yamaha acoustic piano that has lasers to measure hammer position and where you can get acoustic/digital/both?
@@Bvic3 Oh that's awesome. That solves half of my problem, but it doesn't address the other contention of my comment, that piano sales are doing fine, but most people are buying digital now.
When I developed Raynaud's and hand and wrist ailments secondary to chemo, I purchased a Yamaha-YPG-535 sensitive touch electric piano. I can somewhat control dynamics. It continues to be a good learning instrument for me because the action is not too heavy for my hands and wrists and it's always in tune. However, the electric is completely inadequate for performing classical music. I'm lucky Living Pianos is not too far from me and Robert found a beautiful Baldwin-Hamilton studio console! Im having to relearn how to play a real piano, and am enjoying every minute. Learn notes and fingering on the Yamaha YPG-535, transfer to the Baldwin-Hamilton to work out the dynamics and pedaling details! For anyone interested Franklin, PA has a music museum ~ DeBence Antique Music World with all kinds of gorgeous music boxes and other types of mechanical reproduction of instrumental performances. 🎶✨
I have never owned a piano. I've never been in the market for a piano because a) I can't afford one and b) I don't own a home so I don't have a place to put one (kind of an important factor to consider when buying a piano). Another possible contributing factor to declining piano sales is the plethora of other activities that discourage healthy social interaction with people. There is an excessive amount of time spent on social media and playing online games. I do have a home studio setup (a Roland stage piano and a Korg workstation along with a variety of guitars). If I have to move, I'm able to pack everything up (a much more difficult thing to do when you own a piano). Also, people today do not have the same lifestyles that people had 80-100 years ago, where you bought a home, got a job, got married, had children, and basically stayed put for the rest of your life. It's nothing like that today. People change jobs and sometimes careers and they move more frequently. Owning a piano requires a certain amount of stability, a luxury that many people simply don't have.
Had a piano since I was 2yrs old when Mum got one - she was a brilliant pianist, Licentiate level. It was a slow action, loud overdamper tuned a semitone low. But that's what I learnt on. Mum had a top level YAMAHA upright in her last years.
I had a YAMAHA UX that we bought new in 1979. Me and my children wore that out and I bought a small grand 15 years ago, upgraded to a GROTRIAN 7'4" Sports mid-life-crisis piano 2 years later. Have absolutely loved it.
I'm ageing now😢 and have sadly bought a KAWAI K-800 which is still a very nice piano.
I did look at a top-level digital, but 5 yrs warranty instead of 12, and looking at resale didn't give me confidence - and playing the K-800 or my GROTRIAN after testing the digital, while the digital was nice, the real piano was better.
If I ever get into a living situation where I need to cut noise - I guess it might come to a digital then.
My mother was a professional concert pianist (solo performances in Orchestra Hall in Chicago and such) so we certainly always had a piano. I think any home with kids should have a piano. But a decent electronic keyboard is probably also fine. Yes, pianos were once a big deal. One of my mother's best friends was Catherine Bielefeldt who became the first woman manager of Steinway Hall in New York and also wrote the book "The Wonders of the Piano: The Anatomy of the Instrument." Her book points out that in 1911 there were 301 piano manufacturers in the U.S., 334 in Germany (although the U.S. produced more pianos), 136 in England, 79 in Austria, 37 in France, and Belgium, the Netherlands, Russia, Spain, Switzerland, and Japan had 127 together. (You see higher numbers of "brands" in searching online but one manufacturer could make many "brands" These are also known as "stencil pianos.")
Thanks for the information. It is quite useful for me.
We had a player piano when I was a kid. It was what I learned to play on.
Your subscribers love you Robert! I wish that I could buy one of your wonderful pianos. Unfortunately, my current house was damaged by two hurricanes, I have water leaks, termites and it is very hot and humid where I live. Because of the hurricane damage, the house is not air-tight and it would cost a fortune to run the A/C all of the time to keep the right humidity in the house for the piano. It would not be right to put one of your fine pianos in this environment. Thank you again for all of your educational videos and the fine work that you do.
Thanks for the info!!!
Any insight on post-Covid pandemic piano sales? I know there was a spike during the pandemic but with the current economy, has it declined again?
Thanks for the video - another thing that hasn’t been selling “in great numbers”, the past few decades, is the home cine film projector - in fact - to be upbeat (no pun intended) about it - unless the projector is stored away in the basement or an attic - I reckon, walking into a stranger’s home , there’s a 10 to 1 chance (when we leave out all the homes that have neither) it’s a piano over a projector that’s there ! Similar exercise can be carried out as regards piano versus a typewriter !!!!
Great info Robert! I would love to find a Seiler someday that just needed a home...
Piano’s used to be a sign that the family had arrived at upper middle class status. In 1909 real wages were rising for the average worker and economic conditions were lifting all boats. By 1913 the fiat banking cartel was established in order to begin the process of debt monetization depreciation along with entry into the long planned WW1. At a depreciation rate of ap. 50% every 17 years, the middle class has been almost eliminated. About 50% of 18-30 year olds today are still living with their parents because rents and houses are so expensive. None of this is favorable for developing piano enthusiasts.
There is a lot of competition for piano sales. Some of the competitors include organs, keyboard synthesizers, brass, strings, and woodwinds.
For me, seeing young people on UA-cam play piano outside of intense performance and competition-type environments is very encouraging. A woman who goes by vkgoeswild (UA-cam) is a real inspiration. She takes famous pieces of rock music and rewrites them for piano, which she plays. There are many other inspiring players.
I agree that many people are buying digital pianos, and I think these can be good options. They are better than many used or "free" pianos in terms of tone and reliability. But there's nothing like a real acousitc piano that is in good condition.
Thanks for all you are doing on your channel!
If you like those arrangement check out Katherine Cordova. In my humble opinion she is the internet master of arranging current popular songs for piano without killing the original. She can even make Barbie Girl sound like a great piano piece.
I agree of course. You might want to factor keyboards in too. Perhaps guitars have taken the pianos place in terms of most popular instrument.
This is 2023: I have been Tuning and Rebuilding pianos for 50 years. I stay Very busy here in Baton Rouge, Louisiana…. And… it saddens me to see that there are So many activities for young people, that the piano is in competition with.
We have an upright grand from the 40's. It still works great, but it costs more to move it than it is worth. We also have a Yamaha Clavinova and I think that's where the problem lies. 2 people can easily move it, it is digitally sampled so it sounds like a grand (or a harpsicord or other voices), can do midi, etc. And it's an old one, I imagine the new ones are even better.
It is sad to hear of pianos being literally thrown out in the trash because nobody has room for them or they don’t want to spend the money to tune and restore them. I have a 5 foot 8 inch Chickering grand from the 1880’s. It has been handed down in the family and I paid $11000 to have it restored.
Thank you for the video. I was very curious about the numbers. I worked in a piano store in the 1980s. Used to be the PLACE TO BE!
I have two beautiful Steinway M's that I have restored and regulated and tuned to perfection. I have bought the price down to 9900 for each one, losing money even after writing off the hundreds of hours of work I put into them, had them on Criag's list for several months and have not received a serious offer yet. It leaves me scratching my head for sure. this is in the Sacramento area of CA.