Statement of Comment Etiquette for New Thinking Allowed You are asked to be courteous at all times to all participants, and to limit your comments to the topics discussed in the videos. Your thoughtful participation is encouraged. If you post insulting comments here or promote political propaganda, conspiracy theories, or religious dogmas as if they were the absolute truth, you will have disqualified yourself and you will be permanently banned from posting on this channel. Except however, if you still want to post an aggressively rude or off-topic comment (and haven't yet been banned from posting), go visit our monolog about George Carlin at ua-cam.com/video/e5MKv667TRI/v-deo.html. All comments will be accepted there, but not here.
Fantastic interview! Whenever people predict that AGI will become "conscious," I want to ask, "Will it dream? Will it be capable of remote viewing, telepathy, psychokinesis, communication with the dead? Will it be able to exist independent of the physical world?"
According to Ben Goertzel in his new book "The Consciousness Explosion" AGI entities would be more capable than humans in producing paranormal phenomena. Those dudes are crazy.
the whole AGI consciousness debate is so ridiculous in my point of view. remote viewing, dream, you are going far beyond already hahah.. Will any IA ponder if there is a punishment if the IA doesn't comply the requested task?
Yes please more discussion with Dr Alex, particularly regarding this topic and "the substrates in which mind or spirit can manifest". Have really enjoyed and learned from Alex's interviews with the Essentia Foundation and Pari Centre. In my experiences with 'the numinous' it is through biology and it feels beyond peace, love, joy and there is utter reverence and love for that which lives and creates this all ... For me, this transhumanism is watching a 'river of horror' away from all that is our natural inheritance of joy, connection and love as biological, natural beings. The promissory note of materialism and profits churn this river (technological black hole), as Alex suggests. The work of Jennifer Bilek documents just one aspect of transhumanism that is currently marching through the world. Thank you. 🙏🌸
A great interview. Dr. Mishlove's ability to deftly navigate critical perspectives never ceases to impress. Now I want to hear him interview Yuval Harari!
It is interesting that Dante's concept of transhumanism is mentioned. Dante's transhumanism differs from modern technological approaches in that it emphasizes a spiritual transformation.
@43:00 this is more than likely not a coincidence or synchronicity - the devices we carry and the corporations have the ability to predict/influence one's decisions - there also exists the ability to read the thoughts of an individual which will be something we will start seeing more as these transhumanists and posthumanists continue to push BioDigital convergence on everyone. More people need to be speaking out against this!
It all seems to boil down to what is the metaphysical assumption. If you assume a material metaphysics then it logically makes sense that if what we are is a structure of matter then reacreating that structure in a more permanent material is the only way to be immortal. If you assume an idealist or spiritualist metaphysics than material transhumanism is antithetical to what we really are.
Before even having really started this video, or watched any of the content, let me first answer the Question (Which also happens to be The Title) The Answer is... "Yes" Transhumanism IS a False Religion. I already knew the answer before having watched the video.... Isn't that something!? 😊
Great conversation, wonderful talk. This has all been going on for thousands of years. The Eleusinian Mysteries "if you die before you die, you will not die when you die" (sign on Mt Athos) get crushed, and the powerful try to reach immortality through magic and secret societies and death and torture worship (inquisition). Five Chinese emperors died from their alchemists' "pills of immortality" It is a hatred of fate and embodiment that goes back centuries, a hubris that probably benefited us evolutionarily at some point, but now the weight of evidence from NDEs, consciousness research, quantum physics and biology, the anecdotal paranormal is at odds, again, with the Luciferian disgusted Sauronic transhumanists. The Hopi say exactly what Dr. Marin-Gomez is saying, 2 possible paths forward.
Thanks Alex for saying things that I have thought about for years! Kurzweil should have stuck to making awesome musical instruments. Silicon Valley seems to have collected a bunch of socially awkward nerds, in love with the hyper-individualist philosophy of Ayn Rand, and a terror of death and come up with a mangled neo-Protestant mindset. William Gibson’s fiction has been adopted as a “users manual”. No wonder young people are so confused. 🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽
Very interesting. Thank you for this fascinating interview/discussion. Dr. Gómez-Marin's definition of Transhumanism reminds me of Nikolai Fyodorovich Fyodorov's Cosmism. Inspired by his devotion to Russian Orthodox Christianity, he envisioned the resurrection of the dead as accomplished through the sciences. We would be able to gather all of the lost molecules of our forefathers and reconstruct them physically, but then their consciousnesses will enter their reconstructed bodies. They return to life and will be settled on other planets for want of room on earth. This autodidact librarian and formal pedagogue had his treatise published posthumously.
Tech Agnostic by Greg M. Epstein is a very solid book on this subject. It dives very deeply into the belief systems of transhumanism and critically examines them.
Thank you, Dr. Jeffrey Mishlove, for having Dr. Alex Gomex- Marin on. I am very fortunate to have found this channel . I bought Dr. Iian McGilchrist's books and listened in the beginning to the lectures with Dr. Alex Goran- Marin, among many others. Amazing work! Bravo 👏 👏 Music to our ears. 🙏❤️🌏🌍🌎🌿🕊🎵🎶🎵✨️💫✨️💫
This is a great episode and we need more Alex Gomez marins . It interesting watching Jeff because he is kind of in the middle and open minded to this topic . You can tell he is really hearing Alex out here. Transhumansim is dangerous
Alex has hit the nail on the head! As the saying goes, in a falling airplane, everyone becomes a believer. So in our crisis situation, technology has begun to turn into a god. This is the road to disaster...
The following movie may eschews the main objections Alex discussed here, and is worth watching: "The British sci-fi movie "The Beyond" (2017). In this film, scientists observe an anomaly in space, which leads them to transplant human brains into synthetic bodies (referred to as Human 2.0) to explore a wormhole. The movie stars Jane Perry and Nigel Barber and was directed by Hasraf Dulull." No apotheosis in that movie.. There is a return to the human condition. Transhumanism, as Alex describes it, ignores that the Simian organic form of which we are partly constituted, required the formation and presence of those living forms that precede us in the tree of life, and whose continued presence in a proper and beneficial form is essential to human existence, such a bacteria. This seems to be the same error Elon Musk makes when he imagines millions of humans making up a Martian civilization, without considering the microbial world, the flora and fauna that constitute the organic milieu necessary for us to live and thrive.
The universality of computation, as demonstrated by Turing, shows that all physical processes, including the human mind, can, in principle, be simulated by a universal Turing machine. If we accept that the brain operates according to the laws of physics, there is no fundamental reason to think its processes cannot be replicated by a sufficiently advanced computational system. Your critique may arise from conflating current technological limitations with theoretical impossibility. I would also challenge the dichotomy you draw between humanity and technology. Technology is not an external force imposed on humanity; it is a manifestation of human creativity and problem-solving. Embracing it does not diminish human nature but expands its potential. Nonetheless, Kurzweil and the other silicon profets are just getting an easy dollar on this, just (maybe unconscious) fraudsters. Anyhow, thanks for this interview. Great work!❤
the IA - consciousness debate is getting WAY to much attention. We haven't even defined or explored our consciousness, it's origin, when it enters the brain, etc... meanwhile we focus of will IA machines be conscious? come on.. that's so ridiculous.
The problem with your assertion about artificial intelligence participating in ESP tests is that artificial intelligence is predictive so AI will be able to Express behaviors that look like precognition just like language.
I have experienced situations just like your Mars Volta however, I think this is one of the dangers of algorithm. That it is predictive of our behavior and so it is able to control our behavior. To our minds it seems like if someone were having some kind of telepathic understanding of the contents of our mind. But this is not so. This is the problem that we face with AI. That it is predictive of our behavior and that synchronicity you experienced is the sensation I've experiencing an algorithm understanding your behavior better than you do. I really appreciate what you said about spirituality being basically the acceptance that God is in power and when we start to think that we can have the power then we are deluded. I am very interested in ESP research and other human potential movement and I'm interested in developing those skills and have developed those skills to some degree. However, if I start to think that by developing ESP h that will contribute to my spiritual salvation then I am deluded and it is the same with AI and the transhumanists.
Some claim Pierre Teilhard de Chardin (b. 1881 - d, 1955 on Easter) was prescient and perhaps experienced an NDE. I had the same thoughts when reading his works. "On Love and Happiness" he states, "The servants of material progress ...try their hardest to emerge into freedom, but they are fatally sucked in and assimilated by the determinisms they construct. Their own machinery turns them into machines (enslaved machines - my input). The true Hindu karma. At this moment all that remains to control human energy is the use of brute force -- the same force that is very logically being offered us at present as objects of worship." (Technology such as AI and cell phones and I believe they are able to detect and decipher neural activity externally associated with language thus thoughts). "Now this is treason against spirit, and at the same time a grave mistake in human technology, a system of elements of consciousness that can only cohere on a basis of immanence - the doctrine or theory of immanence holds that the Divine encompasses and is manifested in the material world. Not by force, but love above us and therefore, at the beginning the recognized existence of an Omega that makes possible a universal Love."
Real intelligence is so complex that it can become unstable. You get a mental disorder then. The basis for trans humanists, computer models, cannot do that. Also is not complex enough and therefore not intelligent enough Personal opinion
@Eman_Puedama Quite accurately expressed by you. Emotions can make you unstable and cause mental pain. Trans humanists ignore them because they are disturbing. But emotions have to play a role somehow, otherwise they wouldn't be there, just like dreams or NDEs
Quite so. The brain essential function is inhibitory - it protects us from much of the whole soup of realities and forces of the universe, that would only overwhelm us, filtering through only as much as needed to allow awareness in organic life. it may in time allow us to see more, as necessity requires.
Asimov The Last Question 1956- יְהִי אוֹר "How can the net amount of entropy of the universe be massively decreased?" Eventually Multivac's ultimate descendant that exists in hyperspace beyond the bounds of gravity or time discovers the answer-that the reversal of entropy is, in fact, possible-The story ends with Universal Automatic Computer's pronouncement:"LET THERE BE LIGHT!" And there was light- //\/\\ //\/\\
I shall now tell you where this all comes from. It all is based on the movie, The President's Analyst,1967. Yes, except this is the sequel. YES! Then they add a snipit from Forbiden Planet, and wouldn't go for a good old fasion Kriel download. They put a gangsta twist and weponize it to create slave Borgs, and we know how Captian Kurt dealt with those non-homestyles. Now a love chip could be cool if used properly, but is that really need, maybe aplacebo love chip, huh? Wait till they pull it out ther head a see it was just a chedder cheese cheeto. Love you guys, and the guest gets the scam. Darn scammers.
Petitions ascended above! Ye LORD will never know our suffering going after LUST going after feelings that don't bring true rest but strife and separation from Thee! Shared "i""Am come forth.
Great to see Alex making the rounds!
He's previously dialogued on New Thinking Allowed several times, for anyone who may not know.
Statement of Comment Etiquette for New Thinking Allowed
You are asked to be courteous at all times to all participants, and to limit your comments to the topics discussed in the videos. Your thoughtful participation is encouraged. If you post insulting comments here or promote political propaganda, conspiracy theories, or religious dogmas as if they were the absolute truth, you will have disqualified yourself and you will be permanently banned from posting on this channel. Except however, if you still want to post an aggressively rude or off-topic comment (and haven't yet been banned from posting), go visit our monolog about George Carlin at ua-cam.com/video/e5MKv667TRI/v-deo.html. All comments will be accepted there, but not here.
Fantastic interview! Whenever people predict that AGI will become "conscious," I want to ask, "Will it dream? Will it be capable of remote viewing, telepathy, psychokinesis, communication with the dead? Will it be able to exist independent of the physical world?"
According to Ben Goertzel in his new book "The Consciousness Explosion" AGI entities would be more capable than humans in producing paranormal phenomena. Those dudes are crazy.
the whole AGI consciousness debate is so ridiculous in my point of view. remote viewing, dream, you are going far beyond already hahah.. Will any IA ponder if there is a punishment if the IA doesn't comply the requested task?
Alex is fantastic. So great to have this young and fearless mind out there. Please keep featuring him.
Yes please more discussion with Dr Alex, particularly regarding this topic and "the substrates in which mind or spirit can manifest". Have really enjoyed and learned from Alex's interviews with the Essentia Foundation and Pari Centre.
In my experiences with 'the numinous' it is through biology and it feels beyond peace, love, joy and there is utter reverence and love for that which lives and creates this all ...
For me, this transhumanism is watching a 'river of horror' away from all that is our natural inheritance of joy, connection and love as biological, natural beings.
The promissory note of materialism and profits churn this river (technological black hole), as Alex suggests.
The work of Jennifer Bilek documents just one aspect of transhumanism that is currently marching through the world.
Thank you. 🙏🌸
A great interview. Dr. Mishlove's ability to deftly navigate critical perspectives never ceases to impress. Now I want to hear him interview Yuval Harari!
It is interesting that Dante's concept of transhumanism is mentioned.
Dante's transhumanism differs from modern technological approaches in that it emphasizes a spiritual transformation.
The article is a really very good thinking approach to trans humanists
@43:00 this is more than likely not a coincidence or synchronicity - the devices we carry and the corporations have the ability to predict/influence one's decisions - there also exists the ability to read the thoughts of an individual which will be something we will start seeing more as these transhumanists and posthumanists continue to push BioDigital convergence on everyone. More people need to be speaking out against this!
It all seems to boil down to what is the metaphysical assumption. If you assume a material metaphysics then it logically makes sense that if what we are is a structure of matter then reacreating that structure in a more permanent material is the only way to be immortal. If you assume an idealist or spiritualist metaphysics than material transhumanism is antithetical to what we really are.
Before even having really started this video, or watched any of the content, let me first answer the Question (Which also happens to be The Title) The Answer is...
"Yes"
Transhumanism IS a False Religion. I already knew the answer before having watched the video.... Isn't that something!? 😊
Great talk by Alex and correct insight by Jeffrey that transhumanists are motivated by addiction. A very important discussion.
Great conversation, wonderful talk. This has all been going on for thousands of years. The Eleusinian Mysteries "if you die before you die, you will not die when you die" (sign on Mt Athos) get crushed, and the powerful try to reach immortality through magic and secret societies and death and torture worship (inquisition). Five Chinese emperors died from their alchemists' "pills of immortality" It is a hatred of fate and embodiment that goes back centuries, a hubris that probably benefited us evolutionarily at some point, but now the weight of evidence from NDEs, consciousness research, quantum physics and biology, the anecdotal paranormal is at odds, again, with the Luciferian disgusted Sauronic transhumanists. The Hopi say exactly what Dr. Marin-Gomez is saying, 2 possible paths forward.
Great vibe, Alex is always a great passionate guest and moderator.
Just the first 9 1/2 mins of this interview is gold 😃👍🏼
Thanks Alex for saying things that I have thought about for years! Kurzweil should have stuck to making awesome musical instruments. Silicon Valley seems to have collected a bunch of socially awkward nerds, in love with the hyper-individualist philosophy of Ayn Rand, and a terror of death and come up with a mangled neo-Protestant mindset. William Gibson’s fiction has been adopted as a “users manual”. No wonder young people are so confused. 🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽
Very interesting. Thank you for this fascinating interview/discussion. Dr. Gómez-Marin's definition of Transhumanism reminds me of Nikolai Fyodorovich Fyodorov's Cosmism. Inspired by his devotion to Russian Orthodox Christianity, he envisioned the resurrection of the dead as accomplished through the sciences. We would be able to gather all of the lost molecules of our forefathers and reconstruct them physically, but then their consciousnesses will enter their reconstructed bodies. They return to life and will be settled on other planets for want of room on earth. This autodidact librarian and formal pedagogue had his treatise published posthumously.
Very similar to The Physics of Immortality by Frank Tipler.
"There's a creator and creation is continuing" I love it! Just what I needed to hear. Thank you all. Happy New Year !
Tech Agnostic by Greg M. Epstein is a very solid book on this subject. It dives very deeply into the belief systems of transhumanism and critically examines them.
This is outstanding
Such an important discussion! It's not too late. (I hope :))
Thank you, Dr. Jeffrey Mishlove, for having Dr. Alex Gomex- Marin on. I am very fortunate to have found this channel . I bought Dr. Iian McGilchrist's books and listened in the beginning to the lectures with Dr. Alex Goran- Marin, among many others.
Amazing work! Bravo 👏 👏
Music to our ears.
🙏❤️🌏🌍🌎🌿🕊🎵🎶🎵✨️💫✨️💫
This is a great episode and we need more Alex Gomez marins . It interesting watching Jeff because he is kind of in the middle and open minded to this topic . You can tell he is really hearing Alex out here. Transhumansim is dangerous
Alex has hit the nail on the head! As the saying goes, in a falling airplane, everyone becomes a believer. So in our crisis situation, technology has begun to turn into a god. This is the road to disaster...
The following movie may eschews the main objections Alex discussed here, and is worth watching:
"The British sci-fi movie "The Beyond" (2017). In this film, scientists observe an anomaly in space, which leads them to transplant human brains into synthetic bodies (referred to as Human 2.0) to explore a wormhole. The movie stars Jane Perry and Nigel Barber and was directed by Hasraf Dulull."
No apotheosis in that movie.. There is a return to the human condition. Transhumanism, as Alex describes it, ignores that the Simian organic form of which we are partly constituted, required the formation and presence of those living forms that precede us in the tree of life, and whose continued presence in a proper and beneficial form is essential to human existence, such a bacteria. This seems to be the same error Elon Musk makes when he imagines millions of humans making up a Martian civilization, without considering the microbial world, the flora and fauna that constitute the organic milieu necessary for us to live and thrive.
Well done. People are making a lot of money out of these promises. It has to be said.
yes, and many people in the USA have been making a lot of money selling false "Christianity" from its very inception.
Wonderful! ❤
The universality of computation, as demonstrated by Turing, shows that all physical processes, including the human mind, can, in principle, be simulated by a universal Turing machine.
If we accept that the brain operates according to the laws of physics, there is no fundamental reason to think its processes cannot be replicated by a sufficiently advanced computational system.
Your critique may arise from conflating current technological limitations with theoretical impossibility.
I would also challenge the dichotomy you draw between humanity and technology. Technology is not an external force imposed on humanity; it is a manifestation of human creativity and problem-solving. Embracing it does not diminish human nature but expands its potential.
Nonetheless, Kurzweil and the other silicon profets are just getting an easy dollar on this, just (maybe unconscious) fraudsters.
Anyhow, thanks for this interview. Great work!❤
Fantastic speaker! Never cared for Kurzweil, grifter and spin merchant.
the IA - consciousness debate is getting WAY to much attention. We haven't even defined or explored our consciousness, it's origin, when it enters the brain, etc... meanwhile we focus of will IA machines be conscious? come on.. that's so ridiculous.
The problem with your assertion about artificial intelligence participating in ESP tests is that artificial intelligence is predictive so AI will be able to Express behaviors that look like precognition just like language.
I have experienced situations just like your Mars Volta however, I think this is one of the dangers of algorithm. That it is predictive of our behavior and so it is able to control our behavior. To our minds it seems like if someone were having some kind of telepathic understanding of the contents of our mind. But this is not so. This is the problem that we face with AI. That it is predictive of our behavior and that synchronicity you experienced is the sensation I've experiencing an algorithm understanding your behavior better than you do.
I really appreciate what you said about spirituality being basically the acceptance that God is in power and when we start to think that we can have the power then we are deluded. I am very interested in ESP research and other human potential movement and I'm interested in developing those skills and have developed those skills to some degree. However, if I start to think that by developing ESP h that will contribute to my spiritual salvation then I am deluded and it is the same with AI and the transhumanists.
Some claim Pierre Teilhard de Chardin (b. 1881 - d, 1955 on Easter) was prescient and perhaps experienced an NDE. I had the same thoughts when reading his works. "On Love and Happiness" he states, "The servants of material progress ...try their hardest to emerge into freedom, but they are fatally sucked in and assimilated by the determinisms they construct. Their own machinery turns them into machines (enslaved machines - my input). The true Hindu karma. At this moment all that remains to control human energy is the use of brute force -- the same force that is very logically being offered us at present as objects of worship." (Technology such as AI and cell phones and I believe they are able to detect and decipher neural activity externally associated with language thus thoughts). "Now this is treason against spirit, and at the same time a grave mistake in human technology, a system of elements of consciousness that can only cohere on a basis of immanence - the doctrine or theory of immanence holds that the Divine encompasses and is manifested in the material world. Not by force, but love above us and therefore, at the beginning the recognized existence of an Omega that makes possible a universal Love."
Beautiful. Thank you for taking the time to type this quote. 🌸
A computer can neither go crazy, nor have visions, nor dream, nor feel NDE s.
Poor trans humanists, my deepest condolences
Real intelligence is so complex that it can become unstable. You get a mental disorder then.
The basis for trans humanists, computer models, cannot do that. Also is not complex enough and therefore not intelligent enough
Personal opinion
Having emotions and the ability to self-reflect can feel like a curse sometimes, so perhaps that's a motivation for downplaying their importance?
@Eman_Puedama Quite accurately expressed by you. Emotions can make you unstable and cause mental pain. Trans humanists ignore them because they are disturbing. But emotions have to play a role somehow, otherwise they wouldn't be there, just like dreams or NDEs
Yes, the consciousness is not stored in the brain. So you cannot upload it to anything. Ergo, the singularity is a idiotic suggestion.
Quite so. The brain essential function is inhibitory - it protects us from much of the whole soup of realities and forces of the universe, that would only overwhelm us, filtering through only as much as needed to allow awareness in organic life. it may in time allow us to see more, as necessity requires.
What will all of this do for our wisdom-o-meter? I see tech making un less wise, not more.
ua-cam.com/video/_WFLMqZsUc4/v-deo.htmlsi=B1cd4lHTDLrk1w9Y
RE song appearing in list. Technology is used by the higher powers to get across their messages. The algorithm is a convenient cover for this.
Robots
Dont mean to be rude as I didnt watch. But YES!
What is Fair? But to be born as a little child "i" as ye all?
Asimov The Last Question 1956- יְהִי אוֹר
"How can the net amount of entropy of the universe be massively decreased?"
Eventually Multivac's ultimate descendant that exists in hyperspace beyond the bounds of gravity or time discovers the answer-that the reversal of entropy is, in fact, possible-The story ends with Universal Automatic Computer's pronouncement:"LET THERE BE LIGHT!" And there was light-
//\/\\
//\/\\
I shall now tell you where this all comes from. It all is based on the movie, The President's Analyst,1967. Yes, except this is the sequel. YES! Then they add a snipit from Forbiden Planet, and wouldn't go for a good old fasion Kriel download. They put a gangsta twist and weponize it to create slave Borgs, and we know how Captian Kurt dealt with those non-homestyles. Now a love chip could be cool if used properly, but is that really need, maybe aplacebo love chip, huh? Wait till they pull it out ther head a see it was just a chedder cheese cheeto. Love you guys, and the guest gets the scam. Darn scammers.
Petitions ascended above! Ye LORD will never know our suffering going after LUST going after feelings that don't bring true rest but strife and separation from Thee! Shared "i""Am come forth.