Running a pair of monoblocks with two pairs of two foot loudspeaker cables sure made a huge difference in my system. My little beasties use icePower 1200AS1 amplifier modules which are mounted on their sides onto a finned aluminum heatsink that makes up the right sidewall of the all aluminum monoblock chassis from the DIY Audio store. There is a layer of thermal interface compound between the factory aluminum heatsink and the finned heatsink of the chassis which keeps the amp modules running FAR cooler than stock, barely warm to the touch. I used Cardas' gold and rhodium plated copper binding posts and Cardas type 1 copper chassis wire cabling.
Thank you for contributing to our channel and I appreciate the effort. If you have not yet subscribed, please do and tell others about what we do. I appreciate learning about your experiences and the information given is duly noted. I am going to have to do another video on this subject as some have confused the benefits of mono amplification with dual stereo amplifiers doing bi-wiring and its benefits when many bi-wire crossovers are, in fact, compromised for single wiring. So much to hear from viewers, so much to do.
You are most welcome and thank you for taking the time to contribute to our channel. If you have not subscribed already, please do. Please tell others about our work as there are over 130 videos with more than 200 planned.
I have had 2 sets of monoblocks, numerous stereo amplifiers and several integrated amps. My ears must not be that good anymore because I feel like my current integrated sounds great and lots less cable and power cords to boot. But, that's just me. Thanks for the education.
Well, Tom, not knowing what the amplifiers are, and assuming they are different brands, different vintages, and your bag of cables to boot, it's kinda like comparing apples to oranges. The only company that worked around this product was Naim Audio years ago as they had no inductors on the output stage. That's what their twin lead speaker cable provided. Thus, both the cable length (minimum 10' up to 40') eliminated the impact of speaker cable lengths and you didn't have stuff between the speakers. Stop by sometime and I will do a demonstration of stuff between the speakers and how to acoustically treat it.
I prefer to leave equipment on unless there is a chance of bad weather or going on vacation. In that case, I turn off and unplug. Surge protection is advised for any product containing ICs particularly if you are in an area subject to interruption of electrical service including brown-outs and construction. Thank you for taking the moment to write a good question that has a lot of applications.
Lou, after a day of frustration reading, hearing about a mad, mad world, I come to your video for some common sense and to learn more. Love it! Btw, I'm just curious so I'm not setting up an appointment. I wish you'd have let the video run till you got up off the floor. I am aware! I intentionally get on the floor to play with my grandkids for that additional benefit beyond our play - to keep on practicing getting up off the floor. (You know, there are studies that one's longevity can be accurately predicted by their ability to get up, off the floor without using your hands? Tis' true.) I don't know didley-squat about mono-blocks. I don't even know how one might split the signal from the source to get each channel to its respective amp/speaker. But now you've piqued my curiosity and I'll have to learn about it. The part about super short speaker cables makes perfect sense. As always, thanks!
I guess some of us are in a hard place where the integrated amp's onboard amps drive the tweeters while the add on (matching) power amp drives the woofers. Hope you can do a segment on vertical bi-amping some time, though i am made to understand one man's vertical bi-amping is another man's horizontal.😂
Oh, given the responses I have received from this video, your request is at the top of my list! I was graced with insights from two great people in the audio industry, one now passed and one I hope is still alive. Thank you for taking the time to contribute to our channel. If you have not subscribed already, please do. Please tell others about our work as there are over 130 videos with more than 200 planned now including the one you have requested.
Well, you know how it is for us old folks. Once we get down on the floor we usually try figure out what else we can do while we are down there because it's a lot of work to get back up.
Well, here we have a mix of things. You have both dual amplifiers but also you are bi-wiring with separate channels which, by the way, is the way to do it for bi-wiring. Many people make the mistake of using different amplifiers for bass and treble. That's another upcoming video. The results are as expected, really. The truth be told, many speakers that can be bi-wired are compromised in their crossovers so that they can be run single wired but are really designed to be run bi-wire. So, it's not unusual at all that once the terrible metal plates used at the back plate to accommodate single wire are removed for actual bi-wire cables, things dramatically improve. See my video on replacing those pieces of crap with even simple electrical wire.
@@audibleeleganceinc You seem to be obsessed with the use of any old wire. Here in the UK we have dedicated bi-wirable/bi ampable speakers & I am very pleased with my mission 751's (with added subwoofer).All you do is take out a connecting link.🙂 The type of bi-amp configuration you mention with a different amp for both bass/mid range & trebble is called horizontal bi amping & is something that Paul McGowen is very kean on. I found horizontal to produce better sound qualities in practice....there is no explaining you Yanks 🙂
@@nicholasmorrill4711 I am not married to any configuration at all and your approach is correct. In practice, you have monaural bi-amping times 4, not 2. Followed out along the old Naim approach, they tri-amp using 3 stereo amplifiers, the 250s or, if could afford it, the veritable 6 pack of 135s. Similarly, I am not married to older speaker cables and do not become brand dependent. If we want to get into the cables themselves, there is a great tendency in the States to use what are known as IBW designs, or internal bi-wire. This is done for both cost and appearance reasons. Obviously, Naim never made that approach possible with NACA4 or NACA5. I tend to shy away from the bi-wire subject because many folks, worldwide, get this idea in their heads to use differential amplifiers, usually tube to the upper frequencies and solid state for the base. The problem there is differential input sensitivity of the amplifiers and likely impedance issues at both input and output. In short, a hornet's nest of all sorts of unpredictable gobbly-gook. Thus, your approach using 4 like amplifiers for bi-wire is, essentially, correct on a budget. Many manufacturers who once did bi-wire speakers ceased doing so years ago because end users kept coming up with all sorts of ways to produce poor sound out of their speakers. The second element to this video was to get the "Altar" of equipment from between the speakers. If you are using stereo amplifiers, one near each speaker, then you have accomplished both. Here's a fun question for you. Are your speaker cable lengths the same from the amplifier to each terminal?
. It's always a trade-off. What is gained by short cables is lost to vibration. Db scales are also accelerometer (vibration) scales. Placing microphonic gear on the ground (or 1" off it) in a stack right between woofers & subs at a place where the highest LF room gain exists, is not ideal. Acid Jazz, Funk & Brass 🔈🔉🔊
I can certainly see that potential with vacuum tube equipment and that is a solid observation, no pun intended. As for solid state, well, maybe. What remains interesting to me is few have commented about the acoustical effects of having a pilar of goodies between the speakers as well. I do like your observation, regardless. You are most welcome and thank you for taking the time to contribute to our channel. If you have not subscribed already, please do. Please tell others about our work as there are over 130 videos with more than 200 planned.
@@TriAmpHiFi That's why the whole goal is to have ALL your equipment away from between the speakers and, more conveniently, closer to your listening position. Enjoy my upcoming video on acoustical treatments where I show how to reconsider the use of ASC tube traps as I address what even a piece of furniture does to all the characteristics of stereo.
@@audibleeleganceinc . So now you agree the "whole goal" includes solid state too? Excellent. Welcome to the dark side. It's a real hard sell. We now total 2 members. Now if only to convince the others it's OK to put audio gear on waist height shelves instead of on the ground (or 1" off of it). Acid Jazz, Funk & Brass 🔈🔉🔊
Years ago, Naim Audio discovered that solid state electronics were about 1000 times more sensitive to microphonics than realized. Thus, for a period of time, all of their boards "rattled" about as they were not screwed hard to the chassis. This throws off a lot of people thinking things are loose. Now, as one of the more interesting people to comment, I am going to give you a challenge that will serve us both. Years ago there was an article in What Hi-Fi or another British publication in the 1980s that discussed the sonic signature of products and their susceptibility to RF. It was an amazing article, technically supported by measurements and by what people heard. I lost my copy of it some time ago and have been unable to either find my copy of it or any sort of reference to it on the web. It is a worthy find, sort of like the Holy Grail. What makes it even more critical is that anything that gets into the air in Britain is controlled as part of Her Magisty's airwaves. Thus, for example, no CB radio. Here in the States, it is more a matter of broadcast range than is permissible. (Thus the FCC registration number on compact disc players and the like.) So, there is less concern about RF here in the States as nobody considers it and in Britain, it doesn't happen or is not permitted. (Naim, years ago, was susceptible to RF much like many vacuum tube products.) There you go. A fun project. I like you. Enjoy the hunt.
Indeed, not to mention dedicated power supplies and I can go on and on. Many of my videos are what I consider "bites" of information, not classroom lecturers. I am raising topics to consider which invite comments like yours. Constructive comments are sincerely appreciated as they extend the knowledge about the topic. I try to do so in a relaxed manner or, if people catch it, my tongue and cheek humor Every once in awhile someone presses my button and I'll go after it like a fly on the wall. My primary angle on this one was the acoustical impact of "stuff" between the speakers and the havoc it causes. Monoblocks are a cure for it. Thanks, again for your excellent comment and please do subscribe and tell others about this channel.
You are most welcome and thank you for taking the time to contribute to our channel. If you have not subscribed already, please do. Please tell others about our work as there are over 130 videos with more than 200 planned.
As a 71 year old, your joke about planning your trip down to the floor made me laugh...😂 Hi from the UK!
Glad you enjoy my humor. Frankly, I admire most dry humor, especially when it is coupled with reality. You know the routine!
Running a pair of monoblocks with two pairs of two foot loudspeaker cables sure made a huge difference in my system. My little beasties use icePower 1200AS1 amplifier modules which are mounted on their sides onto a finned aluminum heatsink that makes up the right sidewall of the all aluminum monoblock chassis from the DIY Audio store. There is a layer of thermal interface compound between the factory aluminum heatsink and the finned heatsink of the chassis which keeps the amp modules running FAR cooler than stock, barely warm to the touch. I used Cardas' gold and rhodium plated copper binding posts and Cardas type 1 copper chassis wire cabling.
Thank you for contributing to our channel and I appreciate the effort. If you have not yet subscribed, please do and tell others about what we do.
I appreciate learning about your experiences and the information given is duly noted. I am going to have to do another video on this subject as some have confused the benefits of mono amplification with dual stereo amplifiers doing bi-wiring and its benefits when many bi-wire crossovers are, in fact, compromised for single wiring. So much to hear from viewers, so much to do.
I've never thought about it that way! Thank you sir!
You are most welcome and thank you for taking the time to contribute to our channel. If you have not subscribed already, please do. Please tell others about our work as there are over 130 videos with more than 200 planned.
I have had 2 sets of monoblocks, numerous stereo amplifiers and several integrated amps. My ears must not be that good anymore because I feel like my current integrated sounds great and lots less cable and power cords to boot. But, that's just me. Thanks for the education.
What integrated are you currently using?
Well, Tom, not knowing what the amplifiers are, and assuming they are different brands, different vintages, and your bag of cables to boot, it's kinda like comparing apples to oranges. The only company that worked around this product was Naim Audio years ago as they had no inductors on the output stage. That's what their twin lead speaker cable provided. Thus, both the cable length (minimum 10' up to 40') eliminated the impact of speaker cable lengths and you didn't have stuff between the speakers. Stop by sometime and I will do a demonstration of stuff between the speakers and how to acoustically treat it.
Hi Lou . I was Just wondering whether you leave these monoblocks on or turn them off when not in use very little information on internet ?
I prefer to leave equipment on unless there is a chance of bad weather or going on vacation. In that case, I turn off and unplug. Surge protection is advised for any product containing ICs particularly if you are in an area subject to interruption of electrical service including brown-outs and construction.
Thank you for taking the moment to write a good question that has a lot of applications.
Lou, after a day of frustration reading, hearing about a mad, mad world, I come to your video for some common sense and to learn more. Love it! Btw, I'm just curious so I'm not setting up an appointment. I wish you'd have let the video run till you got up off the floor. I am aware! I intentionally get on the floor to play with my grandkids for that additional benefit beyond our play - to keep on practicing getting up off the floor. (You know, there are studies that one's longevity can be accurately predicted by their ability to get up, off the floor without using your hands? Tis' true.) I don't know didley-squat about mono-blocks. I don't even know how one might split the signal from the source to get each channel to its respective amp/speaker. But now you've piqued my curiosity and I'll have to learn about it. The part about super short speaker cables makes perfect sense. As always, thanks!
Feel free to write me through our website.
I guess some of us are in a hard place where the integrated amp's onboard amps drive the tweeters while the add on (matching) power amp drives the woofers. Hope you can do a segment on vertical bi-amping some time, though i am made to understand one man's vertical bi-amping is another man's horizontal.😂
Oh, given the responses I have received from this video, your request is at the top of my list! I was graced with insights from two great people in the audio industry, one now passed and one I hope is still alive.
Thank you for taking the time to contribute to our channel. If you have not subscribed already, please do. Please tell others about our work as there are over 130 videos with more than 200 planned now including the one you have requested.
Rumor has it he's still seated on the floor🤣
Thank you for the videos, I always enjoy them!
Well, you know how it is for us old folks. Once we get down on the floor we usually try figure out what else we can do while we are down there because it's a lot of work to get back up.
Somewhat off your topic because it was in one enclosure, but I miss my Farlowe era Exposure Dual IV power amplifier by a lot.
Exposure picked up on the approaches of Julian Vereker of Naim Audio. As I recall, they did a pretty good job at it.
I've got two mono amps but they are blown away by two sterio amps in a vertically bi-amped configuration.
Well, here we have a mix of things. You have both dual amplifiers but also you are bi-wiring with separate channels which, by the way, is the way to do it for bi-wiring. Many people make the mistake of using different amplifiers for bass and treble. That's another upcoming video. The results are as expected, really.
The truth be told, many speakers that can be bi-wired are compromised in their crossovers so that they can be run single wired but are really designed to be run bi-wire. So, it's not unusual at all that once the terrible metal plates used at the back plate to accommodate single wire are removed for actual bi-wire cables, things dramatically improve. See my video on replacing those pieces of crap with even simple electrical wire.
@@audibleeleganceinc You seem to be obsessed with the use of any old wire.
Here in the UK we have dedicated bi-wirable/bi ampable speakers & I am very pleased with my mission 751's (with added subwoofer).All you do is take out a connecting link.🙂
The type of bi-amp configuration you mention with a different amp for both bass/mid range & trebble is called horizontal bi amping & is something that Paul McGowen is very kean on.
I found horizontal to produce better sound qualities in practice....there is no explaining you Yanks 🙂
@@nicholasmorrill4711 I am not married to any configuration at all and your approach is correct. In practice, you have monaural bi-amping times 4, not 2. Followed out along the old Naim approach, they tri-amp using 3 stereo amplifiers, the 250s or, if could afford it, the veritable 6 pack of 135s. Similarly, I am not married to older speaker cables and do not become brand dependent.
If we want to get into the cables themselves, there is a great tendency in the States to use what are known as IBW designs, or internal bi-wire. This is done for both cost and appearance reasons. Obviously, Naim never made that approach possible with NACA4 or NACA5.
I tend to shy away from the bi-wire subject because many folks, worldwide, get this idea in their heads to use differential amplifiers, usually tube to the upper frequencies and solid state for the base. The problem there is differential input sensitivity of the amplifiers and likely impedance issues at both input and output. In short, a hornet's nest of all sorts of unpredictable gobbly-gook. Thus, your approach using 4 like amplifiers for bi-wire is, essentially, correct on a budget.
Many manufacturers who once did bi-wire speakers ceased doing so years ago because end users kept coming up with all sorts of ways to produce poor sound out of their speakers.
The second element to this video was to get the "Altar" of equipment from between the speakers. If you are using stereo amplifiers, one near each speaker, then you have accomplished both. Here's a fun question for you. Are your speaker cable lengths the same from the amplifier to each terminal?
. It's always a trade-off. What is gained by short cables is lost to vibration. Db scales are also accelerometer (vibration) scales. Placing microphonic gear on the ground (or 1" off it) in a stack right between woofers & subs at a place where the highest LF room gain exists, is not ideal.
Acid Jazz, Funk & Brass 🔈🔉🔊
I can certainly see that potential with vacuum tube equipment and that is a solid observation, no pun intended. As for solid state, well, maybe. What remains interesting to me is few have commented about the acoustical effects of having a pilar of goodies between the speakers as well. I do like your observation, regardless.
You are most welcome and thank you for taking the time to contribute to our channel. If you have not subscribed already, please do. Please tell others about our work as there are over 130 videos with more than 200 planned.
@@audibleeleganceinc
. And, at least, turntables too......................
@@TriAmpHiFi That's why the whole goal is to have ALL your equipment away from between the speakers and, more conveniently, closer to your listening position. Enjoy my upcoming video on acoustical treatments where I show how to reconsider the use of ASC tube traps as I address what even a piece of furniture does to all the characteristics of stereo.
@@audibleeleganceinc
. So now you agree the "whole goal" includes solid state too? Excellent. Welcome to the dark side. It's a real hard sell. We now total 2 members.
Now if only to convince the others it's OK to put audio gear on waist height shelves instead of on the ground (or 1" off of it).
Acid Jazz, Funk & Brass 🔈🔉🔊
Years ago, Naim Audio discovered that solid state electronics were about 1000 times more sensitive to microphonics than realized. Thus, for a period of time, all of their boards "rattled" about as they were not screwed hard to the chassis. This throws off a lot of people thinking things are loose.
Now, as one of the more interesting people to comment, I am going to give you a challenge that will serve us both. Years ago there was an article in What Hi-Fi or another British publication in the 1980s that discussed the sonic signature of products and their susceptibility to RF. It was an amazing article, technically supported by measurements and by what people heard. I lost my copy of it some time ago and have been unable to either find my copy of it or any sort of reference to it on the web. It is a worthy find, sort of like the Holy Grail.
What makes it even more critical is that anything that gets into the air in Britain is controlled as part of Her Magisty's airwaves. Thus, for example, no CB radio. Here in the States, it is more a matter of broadcast range than is permissible. (Thus the FCC registration number on compact disc players and the like.) So, there is less concern about RF here in the States as nobody considers it and in Britain, it doesn't happen or is not permitted. (Naim, years ago, was susceptible to RF much like many vacuum tube products.)
There you go. A fun project. I like you. Enjoy the hunt.
Cross talk. It's real.really. monoblocks are so effortless compared to stereo amps. The whole point of having them.
Indeed, not to mention dedicated power supplies and I can go on and on. Many of my videos are what I consider "bites" of information, not classroom lecturers. I am raising topics to consider which invite comments like yours. Constructive comments are sincerely appreciated as they extend the knowledge about the topic. I try to do so in a relaxed manner or, if people catch it, my tongue and cheek humor Every once in awhile someone presses my button and I'll go after it like a fly on the wall.
My primary angle on this one was the acoustical impact of "stuff" between the speakers and the havoc it causes. Monoblocks are a cure for it.
Thanks, again for your excellent comment and please do subscribe and tell others about this channel.
Great information! Thanks!
You are most welcome and thank you for taking the time to contribute to our channel. If you have not subscribed already, please do. Please tell others about our work as there are over 130 videos with more than 200 planned.