Beautiful old girl. This Princess is terminally ill and on borrowed time, but it does my heart good to see that you've been able to keep her alive, even if only for a bit longer
It was hard to believe how bad this model was, simply by looking at it, and you worked something of a miracle getting this one back to life so well done Bill for another interesting and informative video.
Sat down to watch this thinking to myself I've never seen you fail --- till now. Then with perseverance you got it running. Your status as a master has been maintained. Love the videos. Looking forward to seeing the layout progress. Keep up the good work
good restore, If only a temporary fix. The chassis will continue to crumble away. These princesses are good for spares only. I’ve had 4 sent to me like this and 3 of them crumbled away whilst i was taking them apart. I have spoken to Peters spares and people are trying go get Hornby to cast some new chassis blocks but they just are not interested. Its a shame.
it might be worth peters spares making the chassis blocks, and I avoid new hornby and after 1999 models for this reason (also can motors as well) I prefer margate made stuff which is bullet proof and you can service it
That's an interesting one Bill. That mazak rot will continue so, as you said, this is a temporary fix unfortunately. Great work finding a solution. The layout is looking great. Happy Modelling Mon
Excellent work. I too have been struggling with Chinese engineering. Here are the instructions which don’t really help Screw off the nail on the front cover and unload the front cover. (refer to figure 1). Find the wire hole with gasket in the bottom and pass the power wire through hole. Fix the bottom on the selected position with the inflated screw (refer to figure 2). 😂😂
OO Bill, Was this your biggest test yet? I say it a lot, your the Model Railway equivalent of Springburn Works, so I think that shed of yours, should be called the Works, given the nature of this repair, the swearing was probably apt for what would be said on the shop floor, in Springburn Works too.😂 I bet beer o'clock was greatly appreciated after that repair. Great video. Thank you for sharing.
Never heard of mazak rot before. Googling reveals problems aplenty (especially if you have a long line of old Hornby engines all waiting reactivation in 2024!) Thank you for enlightening us all and congratulations on a successful diagnosis!
I really admire your skill and patience. I just cannot (yet) deal with the fiddly wiring. When you put it in the vice I feared the chassis was going to come back broken and in pieces but you succeeded.
Hi Bill brilliant video you did a brilliant job of repairing it I never thought you could get rot on hornby locomotives we learn something every day keep up with your brilliant work Bernard
It's not really rot, it's more a chemical imbalance in the metallurgy processing as far as I know. I've repaired numerous infected locos 31s and T9s and it's really quite astounding how Hornby no longer seem fit to provide spares to replace these parts that are known issues. All of the class 31s I own have been affected.
A good bit of investigative work and surgery there . Didn’t realise a Princess would have mazak rot . Have been thinking about getting one of these , so thanks for warning
Hi Bill, If there ever was a case for a new chassis this is it. Perseverance might make one. looking at some of the models for sale as spares mazak looks to be a major cause of their problems. But well done on getting running again for how ever long it has left. I must dig mine out to check what condition it's chassis is.
Very interesting thanks Bill. They are still a nice smooth runner. I often try to think if any of my Ioco's have any of these problems, sometimes they have and I can fix them, thanks to you!
A big well done bill 👏 👍 yep the dreded muzak rot .I've got a Hornby class 31 with it but a bit of patience a file and some araldite I got it up and running. So the moral of the story is don't give up on your model. Great video bill .thank you 😊
Well done Bill - Great Sluethin to get her running again, and Whatta Beauty. I’ve always fancied one of these so there’s some Good advice to be Heeded in this Episode 👍🏻 - Time Stamp - Jiggery Faffery 1.33 & Manky Brush 14.48 😉 🚂🚞🚞💨💨
Hi Bill. I have enjoyed your videos for several years and you have encouraged me to go into the loft and bring down all my engines and rolling stock that has been stored there for a least 40 years! I have some plans for a layout - the loft would be great as it would provide 30ft x 40ft. Obviously I am going to need to service each engine - about a douzen I think. I had a quick look and I think it might be just an issue of a cleaning and lubrication as they have been stored away dry. Can you tell me which cleaner to use - e.g. for the commutator and that spray cleaner? Can I assume the magnets will need re-magnetising? Thank you for encouraging me to get back to that hobby as my years advance! Best wishes. roger
Hi Bill. Great work matey! "I don't like to be beaten"... spoken like a true Scotsman. No wonder we Sassenachs dread playing you at Footie and Rugger. Bill 1 v. Alan 0! Paul. 👍❤️
Another great video! I do wonder what 'lifespan' these more modern locos might have given their complexity and all those fiddly delicate parts? I doubt many of them will last as long as some of the models from the 60s, 70s and even 80s. Only time will tell!
Ah, so I have a Bachmann 56xx & a Hornby 8F (the latter being of a similar vintage to the Princess in this video) that are manifesting "wheel tightness". I will now investigate further and possibly deploy my round files....
Unfortunately this particular model of the Princess is well-known for suffering mazak rot. Long may the infamous rot stay away from my other princesses. Well done Bill yet again.
Excellent job! 1st video without a schoosh?? Surprised by the mazak rot I thought it was only affecting older models but I guess Hornby were saving money at the time of manufacture!
Hi Bill, Love the channel...Can i ask a question. I recently bought a Hornby 125 unit that has no couplings. Have seen several others at a fair and none had couplings either. Is this correct??
The zinc rot problem is common in some marklin models. My ho issue is I don’t know how to get the cab liners out of my loco body. For some reason the front windows have fallen in and the slider pick up has broken! When you have time I will sent it to you. By the way do you have a list of your tools and oils/greases you use and especially how to make your sponge cradle to hold the locos. Harry
Excelant video Bill, i am working on one now with similar issuses, but with all wires disconected, i keep geting a circuit between eah wheel and the chassi, can you explain how the axels are insulated from the chassi please.
@OObill watching you working on this reminded me of my class 08 situation you kindly gave some advice on email. Terrible quality during the 2000s, assuming thats when its was built. Ps. Spares are ridiculously expensive and hard to get, 2nd hand locos i got for £30 this time last year are now selling at £50 minimum . Btw, ive bee. using superglue and baking powder mix over the affected metal on some locos. Depends how bad a case it is i guess.
Hi Bill, thanks for the video - well done for repairing the 'Lizzie'. I have a fond memory of having a short ride on the footplate of the real one in April 1971 when the loco was kept at Ashchurch, near Tewkesbury. Have you any idea which models suffer from the mazak problem?
Well, perhaps with this era of 3D printing being a thing, maybe some day these models suffering from MAZAK rot will get the aftermarket support they desperately need (I've got a model that is worth quite a lot of money that actually came from this era of the Mazak rot plague, it hasn't been effected as of yet, haven't done much running with it though just because I'm so paranoid). But for now, you've at least been able to give this Princess a new lease on life for the time being, even if it's only temporary.
Hello Bill, well done again , lovely loco not going in the spares box . I have a loco that would be an extreme "Dare" , should you choose to accept it it . If you're up for it can I send some pics to let you know what you're in for , cheers , Frank ....yes that one 😂
A real challenge and a stark contrast to the Triang Princess Victoria you recently repaired. Yes the detail is there in the new ones but the quality is questionable. The Triang Princess will go forever with periodical service but this modern one although running for now 'to your credit' is ultimately doomed.
I do find these interesting, if not being able to really understand them. A question, can you not print a chassis by 3D printing? And best wishes for 2024
It's a bash up between a Wills kit double track occupation bridge, peco tunnel mouths and some metcalfe card. I had to do this as the Wills kit isn't wide enough.
Those are 20ish yr old models from when Hornby first moved manufacturing to China. Mazak rot comes from buying cheap batches of metal contaminated with impurities, so hopefully Hornby have told them to source the metal from more reliable sources or stopped using those factories.
An impressive effort. These are horrible models to work on at the best of times, and pretty much anyone else would have written this particular one off. I think there are a few bits missing from the body here and there. As you say, they're nice enough models, when they're in good condition... but unpleasant to deal with when things start to go wrong. I'm shocked that a relatively modern model like this would suffer from bad Mazak rot - I've really only encountered that on older models, and I thought it resulted from contamination of the metal alloy, which should have been eliminated in modern manufacturing.
hornby margate made stuff you dont have a problem with mazak rot, its only chinese made that you have the problem, and this is one of the reasons I will not touch new hornby or after 1999 made models
There is a list available of the various models, including those by Hornby, that are known to suffer from mazak rot. Unfortunately, the period between 2004 and 2009ish saw quite a few with it including Hornby T9s, Royal Scots, Class 31, Class 50s, etc. Fortunately, it was not every model of the aforementioned types and other manufacturers have also had similar problems. Heljan was another one.
I think that tooling is from the early 2000s and there are a few China made models from around that time which are known for it, such as the class 31 diesels. Another is the LMS maroon, collectors edition of 'Royal Scot' although mine is fine. I recently bought a Hornby Southern Suburban T9 train pack on Ebay, and discovered the motor mountings and gear cover had disintegrated due to mazak rot. Again those were made in the early 2000s. The seller said he'd briefly run it after buying it new and then it had been stored in a cupboard ever since. Fortunately he agreed a return and gave me a full refund. He'll be able to sell the olive green Maunsell coaches which were fine, but it was a shame about the loco.
Nice work getting that shed of a loco running! I knew as soon as you said the wheels were locked tight that it’d probably be mazak rot as the core issue. When you say Hornby models from this era, roughly what years do you mean out of interest?
I know of a few from the early 2000s, so 20ish yrs ago. Those with 'R' numbers in the 2000s. Class 31 diesels are notorious, splits to the corners of the plastic body are a giveaway with those. Others I've heard of anecdotally include some Royal Scots and T9s. I'm sure there are other models from that period. Fortunately the majority of those affected should have come to light by now, so if they're still running they should be fine. However if the owner hasn't run it recently and it's been sat in a cabinet/cupboard then it might not have been spotted.
It's usually down to wheel spacing. But it can also be restricted sideways movement of the axles which is probably the case here because of the distorted chassis.
Triang Rocket spares are invaluable. Not sure about doing a rebuild from spares but I know someone who has a Rocket with a dead motor that would love to get it running again so email me if you would be interested in helping out. Cheers.
I think that these new ones are a very poor design. Personally I much prefer to have my older Tri-ang princess locomotives. I have four, which have all been completely rebuilt, as they would have been from the factory.
Beautiful old girl. This Princess is terminally ill and on borrowed time, but it does my heart good to see that you've been able to keep her alive, even if only for a bit longer
It was hard to believe how bad this model was, simply by looking at it, and you worked something of a miracle getting this one back to life so well done Bill for another interesting and informative video.
Sat down to watch this thinking to myself I've never seen you fail --- till now. Then with perseverance you got it running.
Your status as a master has been maintained. Love the videos. Looking forward to seeing the layout progress.
Keep up the good work
good restore, If only a temporary fix. The chassis will continue to crumble away. These princesses are good for spares only. I’ve had 4 sent to me like this and 3 of them crumbled away whilst i was taking them apart. I have spoken to Peters spares and people are trying go get Hornby to cast some new chassis blocks but they just are not interested. Its a shame.
it might be worth peters spares making the chassis blocks, and I avoid new hornby and after 1999 models for this reason (also can motors as well) I prefer margate made stuff which is bullet proof and you can service it
That's an interesting one Bill.
That mazak rot will continue so, as you said, this is a temporary fix unfortunately.
Great work finding a solution.
The layout is looking great.
Happy Modelling
Mon
I think there was a wive's tale that wd40 helped slow the process.
@@_RandomPea so the WD40 penetrates the metal and stops the crystals from forming?
Hmmm.
I suspect that's not really possible.
Nice idea though.
Excellent work. I too have been struggling with Chinese engineering. Here are the instructions which don’t really help
Screw off the nail on the front cover and unload the front cover. (refer to figure 1).
Find the wire hole with gasket in the bottom and pass the power wire through hole.
Fix the bottom on the selected position with the inflated screw (refer to figure 2).
😂😂
OO Bill, Was this your biggest test yet? I say it a lot, your the Model Railway equivalent of Springburn Works, so I think that shed of yours, should be called the Works, given the nature of this repair, the swearing was probably apt for what would be said on the shop floor, in Springburn Works too.😂 I bet beer o'clock was greatly appreciated after that repair. Great video. Thank you for sharing.
Great perseverance Bill in fixing the chassis, another great loco back up and running.
Never heard of mazak rot before. Googling reveals problems aplenty (especially if you have a long line of old Hornby engines all waiting reactivation in 2024!) Thank you for enlightening us all and congratulations on a successful diagnosis!
I really admire your skill and patience. I just cannot (yet) deal with the fiddly wiring. When you put it in the vice I feared the chassis was going to come back broken and in pieces but you succeeded.
Hi Bill brilliant video you did a brilliant job of repairing it I never thought you could get rot on hornby locomotives we learn something every day keep up with your brilliant work Bernard
It's not really rot, it's more a chemical imbalance in the metallurgy processing as far as I know. I've repaired numerous infected locos 31s and T9s and it's really quite astounding how Hornby no longer seem fit to provide spares to replace these parts that are known issues. All of the class 31s I own have been affected.
Well done for getting it running again, just had mazak problems myself on two Lima 20's
A good bit of investigative work and surgery there . Didn’t realise a Princess would have mazak rot . Have been thinking about getting one of these , so thanks for warning
Hi Bill, If there ever was a case for a new chassis this is it. Perseverance might make one. looking at some of the models for sale as spares mazak looks to be a major cause of their problems. But well done on getting running again for how ever long it has left. I must dig mine out to check what condition it's chassis is.
What a star you are. 😊😊😊😊
Very interesting thanks Bill. They are still a nice smooth runner. I often try to think if any of my Ioco's have any of these problems, sometimes they have and I can fix them, thanks to you!
A big well done bill 👏 👍 yep the dreded muzak rot .I've got a Hornby class 31 with it but a bit of patience a file and some araldite I got it up and running. So the moral of the story is don't give up on your model. Great video bill .thank you 😊
John from Ontario Canada. I have been enjoying your videos for some time now.
Always great to see a runner at the end of the video!😊
Well done Bill - Great Sluethin to get her running again, and Whatta Beauty. I’ve always fancied one of these so there’s some Good advice to be Heeded in this Episode 👍🏻 - Time Stamp - Jiggery Faffery 1.33 & Manky Brush 14.48 😉 🚂🚞🚞💨💨
well done Bill from a right off to a runner. Great job.
The Loco Doc helps another ailing model back running condition,hats off to you Bill …. ,True Grit.
He can resurrect the dead. I'm not so sure he can walk on water but sometimes he comes very close. Well done Bill.
Another good repair and saved from the scrap yard
Well done Bill
Good job on this one. Well done for persevering.
Great job Bill, I thought that loco was a goner .
Saved from the scrappers well done bill, 37 looks good 👍
Hi Bill. I have enjoyed your videos for several years and you have encouraged me to go into the loft and bring down all my engines and rolling stock that has been stored there for a least 40 years! I have some plans for a layout - the loft would be great as it would provide 30ft x 40ft. Obviously I am going to need to service each engine - about a douzen I think. I had a quick look and I think it might be just an issue of a cleaning and lubrication as they have been stored away dry. Can you tell me which cleaner to use - e.g. for the commutator and that spray cleaner? Can I assume the magnets will need re-magnetising? Thank you for encouraging me to get back to that hobby as my years advance! Best wishes. roger
Hi Bill.
Great work matey! "I don't like to be beaten"... spoken like a true Scotsman. No wonder we Sassenachs dread playing you at Footie and Rugger.
Bill 1 v. Alan 0!
Paul. 👍❤️
Another great video! I do wonder what 'lifespan' these more modern locos might have given their complexity and all those fiddly delicate parts? I doubt many of them will last as long as some of the models from the 60s, 70s and even 80s. Only time will tell!
Brilliant reapair ,,, a lot of locos are getting to the stage of Mazok rot now but its good to know they can be restored for another run or two
hi Bill, great video,that certainly tested your skills, poor quality chassis.well done
Nicely done
Another brilliant job Bill ! If you only repaired HO models, I would have a challenge for you!
I've done a few HO models. See FAQ in description for how to get a loco to me but I'm full up for a bit.
Amazing work👍
Well done.
Ah, so I have a Bachmann 56xx & a Hornby 8F (the latter being of a similar vintage to the Princess in this video) that are manifesting "wheel tightness". I will now investigate further and possibly deploy my round files....
Unfortunately this particular model of the Princess is well-known for suffering mazak rot. Long may the infamous rot stay away from my other princesses. Well done Bill yet again.
Excellent job! 1st video without a schoosh??
Surprised by the mazak rot I thought it was only affecting older models but I guess Hornby were saving money at the time of manufacture!
Genius...
Hi Bill,
Love the channel...Can i ask a question. I recently bought a Hornby 125 unit that has no couplings. Have seen several others at a fair and none had couplings either. Is this correct??
The zinc rot problem is common in some marklin models. My ho issue is I don’t know how to get the cab liners out of my loco body. For some reason the front windows have fallen in and the slider pick up has broken! When you have time I will sent it to you. By the way do you have a list of your tools and oils/greases you use and especially how to make your sponge cradle to hold the locos. Harry
Excelant video Bill, i am working on one now with similar issuses, but with all wires disconected, i keep geting a circuit between eah wheel and the chassi, can you explain how the axels are insulated from the chassi please.
Watch this video I did on a Triang Dock Shunter. ua-cam.com/video/8-7k-sulQOg/v-deo.htmlsi=UJnQglCWgd0O1nfI
@OObill watching you working on this reminded me of my class 08 situation you kindly gave some advice on email. Terrible quality during the 2000s, assuming thats when its was built. Ps. Spares are ridiculously expensive and hard to get, 2nd hand locos i got for £30 this time last year are now selling at £50 minimum . Btw, ive bee. using superglue and baking powder mix over the affected metal on some locos. Depends how bad a case it is i guess.
Hi Bill, thanks for the video - well done for repairing the 'Lizzie'. I have a fond memory of having a short ride on the footplate of the real one in April 1971 when the loco was kept at Ashchurch, near Tewkesbury. Have you any idea which models suffer from the mazak problem?
Well, perhaps with this era of 3D printing being a thing, maybe some day these models suffering from MAZAK rot will get the aftermarket support they desperately need (I've got a model that is worth quite a lot of money that actually came from this era of the Mazak rot plague, it hasn't been effected as of yet, haven't done much running with it though just because I'm so paranoid). But for now, you've at least been able to give this Princess a new lease on life for the time being, even if it's only temporary.
not all superheroes wear capes , Super Bill saves the day 👏👏👏 Bill I’ve been admiring the shed for a while did you scratch build it or is it a kit🤔
Mazak Rot : Usually means a death sentence , you must have Watt genes and other Scottish engineers in your blood , CRIVENS/ jings
Hello Bill, well done again , lovely loco not going in the spares box . I have a loco that would be an extreme "Dare" , should you choose to accept it it . If you're up for it can I send some pics to let you know what you're in for , cheers , Frank ....yes that one 😂
Hi Frank by all means send some pics. I like a challenge but I have limits!
A real challenge and a stark contrast to the Triang Princess Victoria you recently repaired. Yes the detail is there in the new ones but the quality is questionable. The Triang Princess will go forever with periodical service but this modern one although running for now 'to your credit' is ultimately doomed.
Love the 37,
I do find these interesting, if not being able to really understand them. A question, can you not print a chassis by 3D printing?
And best wishes for 2024
Hell of a job on this one Bill. Could a cassis not be 3D printed for these (it would obviously need some weight adding) ?
Hi Bill, well done on getting some sort of result. Quick question, what kit did you use for your small road bridge in the scenic area?
It's a bash up between a Wills kit double track occupation bridge, peco tunnel mouths and some metcalfe card. I had to do this as the Wills kit isn't wide enough.
I thought mazak rot would be a thing of the past by now , surely they know of it and could tweek the formula for the metal to 'stop the rot' .
Those are 20ish yr old models from when Hornby first moved manufacturing to China.
Mazak rot comes from buying cheap batches of metal contaminated with impurities, so hopefully Hornby have told them to source the metal from more reliable sources or stopped using those factories.
An impressive effort. These are horrible models to work on at the best of times, and pretty much anyone else would have written this particular one off. I think there are a few bits missing from the body here and there. As you say, they're nice enough models, when they're in good condition... but unpleasant to deal with when things start to go wrong. I'm shocked that a relatively modern model like this would suffer from bad Mazak rot - I've really only encountered that on older models, and I thought it resulted from contamination of the metal alloy, which should have been eliminated in modern manufacturing.
hornby margate made stuff you dont have a problem with mazak rot, its only chinese made that you have the problem, and this is one of the reasons I will not touch new hornby or after 1999 made models
There is a list available of the various models, including those by Hornby, that are known to suffer from mazak rot. Unfortunately, the period between 2004 and 2009ish saw quite a few with it including Hornby T9s, Royal Scots, Class 31, Class 50s, etc. Fortunately, it was not every model of the aforementioned types and other manufacturers have also had similar problems. Heljan was another one.
I think that tooling is from the early 2000s and there are a few China made models from around that time which are known for it, such as the class 31 diesels. Another is the LMS maroon, collectors edition of 'Royal Scot' although mine is fine.
I recently bought a Hornby Southern Suburban T9 train pack on Ebay, and discovered the motor mountings and gear cover had disintegrated due to mazak rot. Again those were made in the early 2000s.
The seller said he'd briefly run it after buying it new and then it had been stored in a cupboard ever since. Fortunately he agreed a return and gave me a full refund. He'll be able to sell the olive green Maunsell coaches which were fine, but it was a shame about the loco.
You can get replacements from Peter's Spares, providing they are in stock, but they are not that cheap.@@speleokeir
Nice work getting that shed of a loco running! I knew as soon as you said the wheels were locked tight that it’d probably be mazak rot as the core issue.
When you say Hornby models from this era, roughly what years do you mean out of interest?
I know of a few from the early 2000s, so 20ish yrs ago. Those with 'R' numbers in the 2000s.
Class 31 diesels are notorious, splits to the corners of the plastic body are a giveaway with those. Others I've heard of anecdotally include some Royal Scots and T9s. I'm sure there are other models from that period.
Fortunately the majority of those affected should have come to light by now, so if they're still running they should be fine. However if the owner hasn't run it recently and it's been sat in a cabinet/cupboard then it might not have been spotted.
@speleokeir yep I have had a T9 that broke into bits. Ok so early 2000s.
Well done Bill. I did, however, notice that it slowed down considerably on the curves. Do you know the cause of that?
It's usually down to wheel spacing. But it can also be restricted sideways movement of the axles which is probably the case here because of the distorted chassis.
good vid bill on channel keep up the good vids thanks lee
Hey Bill, great video I have a bundle of triang rocket spares to build a loco, would you like to have a go at it?
Triang Rocket spares are invaluable. Not sure about doing a rebuild from spares but I know someone who has a Rocket with a dead motor that would love to get it running again so email me if you would be interested in helping out. Cheers.
Maybe your dog as taken them we had a cat that moved things like combs and hair brushes around the house
I think that these new ones are a very poor design. Personally I much prefer to have my older Tri-ang princess locomotives. I have four, which have all been completely rebuilt, as they would have been from the factory.
Thesse chassis are poorly designed hornby garbage
Hi there Bill ,, good reqpair there m8,, though i got to ask the question of what the heck is murderkrot ?
Cheers from John in Australia.
Hope this helps.
Mazak rot?
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinc_pest#:~:text=Zinc%20pest%20(from%20German%20Zinkpest,zinc%20alloys%20containing%20lead%20impurities.
mazak rot , zinc pest , zinc rot is the intercrystalline corrosion of Zinc alloys containing lead impurities
Google mazak rot.