The issue I have with the guns in Shadow is that Shadow is a character with some crazy chaos powers, and instead of expanding on that and making a cool moveset that is exclusive to him, he gets guns that anyone could use. I think Fang is an example of a Sonic character with a gun done right, Fang doesn’t have any crazy powers that we know of, so it makes sense that he would use a weapon. Whisper with the variable wispon is also another one that I like.
You also bring up the fact that anyone else can use the guns. Look at Sonic in Smash. Similar abilities to Shadow, and he also uses (more cartoony) guns
Yeah, I guess my preferred interpretation of Shadow is someone who uses various chaos energy related moves rather than a gun. I feel like Tails or Rouge would make more sense for like a gun in the modern cast. Preferably a more cartoony gun.
I love the werehog. People just immediately think something is bad just cus it's different. Sure, it's not what we're used to in a Sonic game, but it works so well and shouldn't be called bad, it just might not be your thing.
yeah they instantly hated him cause people had to relearn Sonic again and didn't want to learn a combat system since they're used to him being fast and also they hate that the levels are to long but if you mastered the werehog by now levels can take 3-6 minutes which isn't bad
@@Master_Viccc fr bruh people used to dislike it blindly back in the days and funny thing is that most of people who dislike it didn't even play the game in the first place lol, but yeah anyways im happy that now its appriciated and getting the love it deserve, plus the Lvl's weren't even long most of them could be finished in like 3/5 mins (mostly if you a decent player that learned to get used to it, and know how to play intelligently)
@@folo7595 yeah people just didn't want to learn the night stages at all and that one IGN employee man God that man was so horrible even as daytime Sonic
Classic sonic is different to modern sonic and I have no problem with his gameplay The werehog though is have mega repetitive combat and the puzzles can also be bit frustrating, although the bosses and the platforming did got executed well, his stretchy arms really carried the stages IMO and the bosses especially dark gia phoenix was super fun.
Shadow having a gun makes sense in the context that he witnessed Maria die to one and wants revenge but at the same time the way it was executed was bad....the way he was brought back was bad
@@lemonyanva1976 naw I think the way he was brought back story wise makes sense (with some adjustments) and I mean it could be the perfect way to start a Shadow the Hedgehog game. Eggman rescues Shadow and immediately put him in stasis while studying him to make an Ultimate Android Army capable of going toe to toe with Sonic. Rouge goes there on behalf of the President/G.U.N (since originally it was the President she worked for and not G.U.N) sends her in with intel on this project and basically tells her to sabotage everything. She accidentally awakens Omega (who senses a living being is awake and assumes she’s Shadow) who immediately goes batshit insane which leads to either Omega or Rouge awakening Shadow. Shadow tries to fight him off but Rouge interrupts the fight where basically the same thing as Sonic Heroes happen except you scrap the amnesia and Shadows just pissed cause Eggman experimented on him and created copies of him while Omega’s pissed cause he’s the strongest of the E-Series but basically got locked away in a room to rot. Rouge enlists their help and boom you have a decent start to a Shadow the Hedgehog game that I think could’ve worked
@@jdawson7877 ehhh tbf only reason I think it’s a bad thing is because Shadow literally doesn’t need it, not only can Shadow travel faster than most if not all bullets out there (meaning he could run behind you and kill you no problems whatsoever before the bullet even leaves the chamber) but he already has a long distance attack. Just use the Chaos Spears and what’s even better with the Spears is that as long as Shadow has energy he can fire them off. That’s basically a infinite supply of Chaos Spears vs a finite supply of bullets. Not only that but Chaos Blast works better than any Bomb could (ill give Rockets and Grenade Launchers a leeway pass just because running in the middle of enemies just to basically blow stuff up ain’t smart but even then again Shadow is massively faster than everyone else not named Sonic, he should be able to do that with no problems lorewise but gameplay wise if you’re not trying to get hit it could be annoying)
@@antg2183 well just because shadow doesn't need guns doesn't mean he can't use them the same with sonic and a sword sonic and shadow don't need guns or swords but that doesn't mean they can't use them
@@antg2183 I always seen characters using weapons or anything lesser than them is just for the aesthetic or just a way to make them more interesting. Like Sonic is faster than his own car, but he hops into one maybe cause it's comfy for him or maybe Sonic without a car in a vehicle game is *weird* Sonic with a sword is hella badass, he doesn't NEED it but just the idea of him holding a sword and doing that super fast homing attack is just mind-blowing. Same thing with Shadow, badass-looking character wielding a usually badass weapon is pretty cool, even if he can probably see the bullets flying towards his enemy in slow motion. And hey, just another ranged weapon other than his chaos abilities.
"Who thought it was a good idea to give a Sonic character a gun?" Seriously where does this cognitive disillusion come from? We literally have Nack/Fang, Omega as well as Gamma used guns not to mention Tails using arm cannons, Eggman used guns a few times, the wispons and oh THERE'S LITERALLY AN ORGANIZATION CALLED "G.U.N" I dunno are we playing the same franchise? lol!
It still doesn’t make sense. Atleast the guns they own fit the aesthetic or were not used as a marketing point. Shadow’s guns are just bland realistic guns.
Guns probably make more sense than swords for this franchise if you think about it tbh. Not that I disliked Black Knight or anything, just saying. Maybe swords fit the comics more, but I never read 'em so idk. 🤷♂️
I'm actually one of those who liked the Werehog. I love that you get to explore the levels a little more. Yeah the levels are a little long but I somehow got all the S ranks despite having a time of 8, 10 or more minutes in a level. Also those Dark Gaia minions are so fun to beat up lol I'm more of an explorer than a high speed player.
Glad I’m not the only one that enjoyed the werehog, there could’ve been less fights, but I’m ngl I really liked the platforming, it gave me jak and daxter vibes
You like guns, the sword AND the werehog, those are my 3 least fave lmao, opinions are opinions tho, personally I like sonc 4s gimmick based acts and the colours and lost world wisps
I really appreciate that you give praise to Unleashed and the Werehog and I'm always agreeing with so many opinions you have with it. If only the Hedgehog Engine made a comeback and was improved on. But then again, nothing will have as beautiful of visuals as Sonic Unleashed did. It really was an adventure.
S teir : werehog the team gameplay from heroes A teir : the parkour the avatar generations classic sonic B tier : the sword C teir : wisps D teir : guns forces classic sonic It's my opinion
"The aliens compliment *Mario*'s gameplay so well" Also no, you cannot ignore them. Chaomix proved that completion is impossible with any less than 10 uses.
My favorite has to be the wherehog. There something just so satisfying when you beat the crap out of an enemy with the corpse of another enemy. You could also tecnically classify the level up system in unleased as a gimmick as well.
Honestly I don't have too much of a problem with Shadow having guns, I guess the idea is a little strange but it doesn't bother me much and when it comes to the gameplay, I think its pretty fun.
I don’t understand why they added Classic Sonic to forces I mean if the point of him being there was for sales they should’ve tried to make Classic play well so people would get what they paid for lol
because they no longer have faith in modern sonic there too scared to make a fully 3d sonic game and they now have this mindset that a sonic game can't be good without classic sonic
To add variety to the game, probably, which you do get in forces. its the first game since 06 to have 3 gameplay styles plus another reason is maybe so even people who prefer classic sonic would get a slice of the cake in the game, which is understandable, but completely ignores the more hardcore audience and most people who've already played other classic sonic games to death. i hope they don't try to cater to everyone in the next game, and just focus on something consistent
@@GetShrekd if they want to pander to classic fans thats literally what mania is for forces is suppose to be for 3d fans classic sonic has no reason to be there. Also if they wanted to add variety to the game they have a huge cast characters they can use to do that but they won't use them because they been so afraid to have sonic friends playable since 06
Pleasantly surprised with the top gimmick, but you're absolutely right. Parkour belongs in a Sonic game. On a similar vein, I liked Amy's triple jump and tightrope abilities in *redacted*.
The OC is an S tier idea, but in execution it's a fucking F tier. After so many years of people making Sonic OCs, I couldn't have imagined an official Sonic OC creator being this bland. The customization is nice, but the creation is incredibly barebones.
Apparently Sega intentionally made the character creator basic so your OC wouldn't look as "cool" as Sonic and Co. Ofc even with Sega trying to strangle the fandom's creativity there have been a few gems among the OCs (one of which partly inspired the creation of Whisper the Wolf for IDW).
The joke is that it is so bland that I actually named my mainavatar... "Avatar the Cat". It is actually better as a feature when one sees the character as a rando in the sonicworld instead of an actual OC made by a fan. That is how backwards it feels.
The Rookie is honestly one of the best parts of Sonic Forces. And the Wisps are underrated in Sonic Colors at least. I agree with everything on the list except for the Team Mechanic in Heroes, i'd put it in an A, i can't say it's worse than a Forces gimmick even tho i liked the game. (jk rookie still better) And werehog is in B, it's a decent gimmick but a lot of the werehog stages are bad so that's why it's in the B tier for me.
Honestly I think giving Shadow a gun at least for his own title was a good idea. If they couldn't kill him off as was intended in SA2 then he needed a strong identity as the "edgy and dark" anti-hero alternative to Sonic to justify his continued existence.
To be fair, though the idea was beyond stupid, the guns in Shadow actually worked pretty damn well. They were fun to use (most of the time) and helped the combat to not drag like in 06 or Heroes. It’s the only time where enemies with health bars actually worked (outside of the Werehog). My ranking -1000. Classic Sonic (Forces) (Need I say more? No redeeming qualities) 7. Sword (Black Knight) (Interesting idea, but controls horribly and a pace breaker) 6. Avatar (Forces) (Fun idea, but completely wasted, like everything in Forces) 5. Guns (Shadow) (See above) 4. Wisps (Colors) (Specifically talking Colors. Worked well here, but way, WAY overused and pointless in every other game. Kinda broke the pace sometimes) 3. Parkour (Lost World) (Another wasted idea, but really fun when actually utilized. Would love to see this get another chance) 2. Classic Sonic (Generations) (Fun and well designed, but I’d still rather play Modern. Classic Sky Sanctuary still one of my favorite Sonic levels ever.) 1. Werehog (Unleashed) (Levels can drag, but I don’t mind. I am a Werehog apologist) Didn’t include Hero/Dark in SA2 because it has no impact on gameplay
I was actually really suprised you didn't like the gun gameplay, and was looking forward to some of your reasons for putting it in D Tier. Then you moved on.
Same with Heroes, what's up with you in this video? I thought you were gonna bash the fact the switching itself is inconsistent or the fact you can't always switch to your teammates but no you just didn't give any insight on why you put it in B Tier
I love the Werehog and it’s most enjoyable to play as when fully levelled up. It’s also not to hard because of the ring glitch in Chun-nan (rip-off china) which allows you to buy food to level up. You can also play the waiting game because as long as you don’t level up the normal sonic often, then the Werehog will be almost max level by the time you get to the second final boss. I suggest doing both. You’ll get the best out of the Werehog if you level up his combos (beautiful fighting styles that are worth unlocking), strength (makes the levels slightly shorter) and life (less likely to die so less time spent), the other options aren’t as necessary but I still recommend upgrading them. I love the Werehog because I consider it a perfect fusion of strength and speed. And the stretchy arms benefit how he fights when you unlock combos, so that doesn’t bother me. The only thing I don’t like is the name, only because people pointed out the mistake that it were stands for human , so instead it should be called a Hedge-wolf. That never bothered me until people mentioned it…
I did really like the sword quite a bit. I also like the idea of parkour for sonic. I've never gotten to play lost world but I've seen it and the parkour looks like it could work. Anything that could get us closer to running like sonic does in the sonic CD short.
Me watching the video: Ok I see your points and I understand what you mean and why you like these ideas. My Inner Sonic Fanboy: STOP CALLING THEM ALIENS, THEIR CALLED WISPS!
@@hydrochloric007 I just put omega since they’re both on team dark, guns are literally a part of his body, and one time Matt said that sonic characters should not have guns, omega was literally standing right beside shadow
Wikipedia: Any object can be used as a Weapon when used to attack or threaten a being as well as for self-defense. D - Sonic Characters with Weapons (Everyone has them except Sonic {not counting his spines}) B- Sword is a Weapon I'm just kidding guys.
>Colors' wisps on the S tier Finally, someone who gets it :^) All I would change about them is making the transformation/activation instant, and making hover less painfully slow. But they're one of the few gimmicks I never had a big problem with, they were really well done.
Strange because the DS version of Colors and the 3DS version of Lost World did the instant transformation thing. To this day I still don't get why they didn't do it for the console versions but, it's no big deal.
great to see that the werehog is having the love it deserves, I love that gameplay, it has its flaws but they do not take away from the fun for me. my favorite Gimmicks are the Werehog, Caliburn and wisps, I had so much fun with these
I don't understand the distain of sonic characters using guns, I mean for shadow and most characters it's stupid but there is a character that had a gun before shadow and it made sense because it was apart of their character Fang the Sniper.
No guns in Sonicgames. Except the police(SA1 opening cutscene) and the military(Gun uses guns a lot, lol) and the mechs(Those weapons on them are basically just stronger guns) and Dr. Eggman(The cutscenes where he threatens the life of amy) and the E-Series robots(Their arms are guns) and Omega(He literally has miniguns built into him) and the Avatar(Wispon) and er....Tails(in the cutscene when he was almost controlled by the deadly six) and the Egg robos and....the tornado and the 06 eggman-robots and....and....
The fact there exists a military organization called "G.U.N". It's almost seems like Sega actually WANTS Sonic characters to use guns... the horror... :0
@Lynx Fresh Or it might be a coincidence. But I don't think GUoN makes very makes very much sense so just shorten it to GUN. GUoN sounds like a fine pasta
@@cakelayer it's a risk/reward factor that gives incentive to keep your momentum and resource management properly in exchange for a massive power boost. The alternative of making it without the drawbacks would just have it be scrutinized as a win button and not as fondly liked as it currently is.
I love the Werehog and Sonic Unleashed is my favorite game. But I wouldn't consider him a gimmick. He is more like a alternate playstyle in the same way the Adventure games has multiple playable characters.
Imo, my problem with the parkour system is that the level design doesn't really utilize it much, it's always just an optional path, it's one of the reasons I like the 3DS version since it utilities it a lot more but that's just me.
The Rookie/Avatar, the team gameplay, the sword, and the parkour are all awesome and I would love anyone of them to come back. Sword and team mechanic are the least likely to return though. The avatar is my favorite part of forces actually. One of the few reasons I go back to play the game. (The soundtrack is the other reason I go back to play the game.) That said, ClassicSonic in Forces is okayish to me. I do think his physics suck, but I don't think he's the worst thing I've ever experienced in Sonic. (That goes to the enterity of Secret Rings.)
Finally someone spoke faccs. The only thing I don't agree with is the guns being in D because I genuinely like the guns and I feel they're implemented well enough into a sonic game, but then again, I really like shadow as a game so I am a bit biased
I’ll never forgive this video for not adding Sonic’s Genie ring from SATSR because as huge lover of that game and also someone who loves the gimmick I wanted to see opinions on it.
Classic sonic generations, lost world parkour and wisp is s Avatar, Werehog ,dark vs hero is A B is Excalibur C is classic sonic forces D is hero mechanic (this is probably my biased against heroes)
It's funny. If you mismatched the length of the avatar levels with the werehog game play, and the customizability of werehog actions with the avatar game play, I bet that these gimmicks would both be S tier
I really loved the guns in shadow the hedgehog and the parkour system in sonic lost is cool but I don't like most of the stages in sonic lost world it would have been better if it was a bit realistic like sonic unleashed and it could've been one of the best sonic game
The issue I have with the guns in Shadow is that Shadow is a character with some crazy chaos powers, and instead of expanding on that and making a cool moveset that is exclusive to him, he gets guns that anyone could use. I think Fang is an example of a Sonic character with a gun done right, Fang doesn’t have any crazy powers that we know of, so it makes sense that he would use a weapon. Whisper with the variable wispon is also another one that I like.
You also bring up the fact that anyone else can use the guns. Look at Sonic in Smash. Similar abilities to Shadow, and he also uses (more cartoony) guns
Hear me out, chaos power-based guns and weapons aside from normal weapons and chaos power, and boom! The ultimate moveset form!
And kids wanted a sonic charcacter to have a gun
The fact that it’s a realistic gun that’s the main issue.
Yeah, I guess my preferred interpretation of Shadow is someone who uses various chaos energy related moves rather than a gun. I feel like Tails or Rouge would make more sense for like a gun in the modern cast. Preferably a more cartoony gun.
Ah yes gimmicks. A sonic fans favourite thing.
2nd.You know after good gameplay.
Why does 2nd.You take me to a link
@@spritvio639 hm
I love the werehog. People just immediately think something is bad just cus it's different. Sure, it's not what we're used to in a Sonic game, but it works so well and shouldn't be called bad, it just might not be your thing.
yeah they instantly hated him cause people had to relearn Sonic again and didn't want to learn a combat system since they're used to him being fast and also they hate that the levels are to long but if you mastered the werehog by now levels can take 3-6 minutes which isn't bad
@@Master_Viccc fr bruh people used to dislike it blindly back in the days and funny thing is that most of people who dislike it didn't even play the game in the first place lol, but yeah anyways im happy that now its appriciated and getting the love it deserve, plus the Lvl's weren't even long most of them could be finished in like 3/5 mins (mostly if you a decent player that learned to get used to it, and know how to play intelligently)
@@folo7595 yeah people just didn't want to learn the night stages at all and that one IGN employee man God that man was so horrible even as daytime Sonic
Classic sonic is different to modern sonic and I have no problem with his gameplay
The werehog though is have mega repetitive combat and the puzzles can also be bit frustrating, although the bosses and the platforming did got executed well, his stretchy arms really carried the stages IMO and the bosses especially dark gia phoenix was super fun.
Seeing the Werehog being given some love is awesome to me
Same
@@EAA_00 same same
Ikr? It’s amazing!
ikr!!!
Werehog in concept is extremely weird, in execution, it's fine
Seeing the werehog so high up gives me life!
It does the opposite for me
He sucks lmao
@@SuperBetaBuxbros. that is your opinion
Fr me too
The werehog is underrated
The sword was brilliant. Can't tell me otherwise
It just felt so natural
In concept
it actually felt like you're holding a sword, how past cool is that?
Sonic doesn’t need it though. He can already attack with his spikes.
otherwise
Dude was so hung up on Shadow having a gun...
Shadow having a gun makes sense in the context that he witnessed Maria die to one and wants revenge but at the same time the way it was executed was bad....the way he was brought back was bad
@@lemonyanva1976 naw I think the way he was brought back story wise makes sense (with some adjustments) and I mean it could be the perfect way to start a Shadow the Hedgehog game. Eggman rescues Shadow and immediately put him in stasis while studying him to make an Ultimate Android Army capable of going toe to toe with Sonic. Rouge goes there on behalf of the President/G.U.N (since originally it was the President she worked for and not G.U.N) sends her in with intel on this project and basically tells her to sabotage everything. She accidentally awakens Omega (who senses a living being is awake and assumes she’s Shadow) who immediately goes batshit insane which leads to either Omega or Rouge awakening Shadow. Shadow tries to fight him off but Rouge interrupts the fight where basically the same thing as Sonic Heroes happen except you scrap the amnesia and Shadows just pissed cause Eggman experimented on him and created copies of him while Omega’s pissed cause he’s the strongest of the E-Series but basically got locked away in a room to rot. Rouge enlists their help and boom you have a decent start to a Shadow the Hedgehog game that I think could’ve worked
"Sonic and gimmicks go together very well"
Well *sometimes*
Now I kinda want a wisp tier list. Specifically with Yellow Drill in S or High A, and Magenta Rhythm in F
Cube is definitely the best.
@@Matthasnocuts F R E N Z Y
Controls atrociously but come on, he's so cool.
Seriously, who thought that Magenta Rhythm was a good idea for a wisp?
@@Matthasnocuts Cube gets too much hate. It's not the best, but it's still a great wisp.
If magenta wisp is in F tier, gray wisp is in Z tier. Stupid 3ds tilt controls and slow movement made me lose my mind!
2:07 i mean. Eggman points a gun at Amy’s head in SA2, and i love that scene
Shadow with a gun is S tier
I agree. That's the thing I like about the game.
It's so damn stupid that it's S-tier
In D tier, we have classic sonic
From sonic forces
I freaked out until he said forces
@@fruitloops5672 Pretty much everyone lol
@@lightsprite6128 Not me
Mat: LIKE WHO THOUGHT IT WAS A GOOD IDEA TO GIVE A SONIC CHARACTER A GUN?!
Fang the Sniper: *nervous sweat*
Yup it's those kind of statements where it feels like cherry-picking imo (guns = bad yet swords = good) kinda feels like double standards tbh.
oh so its okay for fang to use guns but when shadow do it its suddenly a bad thing
@@jdawson7877 ehhh tbf only reason I think it’s a bad thing is because Shadow literally doesn’t need it, not only can Shadow travel faster than most if not all bullets out there (meaning he could run behind you and kill you no problems whatsoever before the bullet even leaves the chamber) but he already has a long distance attack. Just use the Chaos Spears and what’s even better with the Spears is that as long as Shadow has energy he can fire them off. That’s basically a infinite supply of Chaos Spears vs a finite supply of bullets. Not only that but Chaos Blast works better than any Bomb could (ill give Rockets and Grenade Launchers a leeway pass just because running in the middle of enemies just to basically blow stuff up ain’t smart but even then again Shadow is massively faster than everyone else not named Sonic, he should be able to do that with no problems lorewise but gameplay wise if you’re not trying to get hit it could be annoying)
@@antg2183 well just because shadow doesn't need guns doesn't mean he can't use them the same with sonic and a sword sonic and shadow don't need guns or swords but that doesn't mean they can't use them
@@antg2183 I always seen characters using weapons or anything lesser than them is just for the aesthetic or just a way to make them more interesting. Like Sonic is faster than his own car, but he hops into one maybe cause it's comfy for him or maybe Sonic without a car in a vehicle game is *weird*
Sonic with a sword is hella badass, he doesn't NEED it but just the idea of him holding a sword and doing that super fast homing attack is just mind-blowing. Same thing with Shadow, badass-looking character wielding a usually badass weapon is pretty cool, even if he can probably see the bullets flying towards his enemy in slow motion. And hey, just another ranged weapon other than his chaos abilities.
"Who thought it was a good idea to give a Sonic character a gun?"
Seriously where does this cognitive disillusion come from? We literally have Nack/Fang, Omega as well as Gamma used guns not to mention Tails using arm cannons, Eggman used guns a few times, the wispons and oh THERE'S LITERALLY AN ORGANIZATION CALLED "G.U.N"
I dunno are we playing the same franchise? lol!
It still doesn’t make sense. Atleast the guns they own fit the aesthetic or were not used as a marketing point. Shadow’s guns are just bland realistic guns.
Guns probably make more sense than swords for this franchise if you think about it tbh. Not that I disliked Black Knight or anything, just saying.
Maybe swords fit the comics more, but I never read 'em so idk. 🤷♂️
I'm actually one of those who liked the Werehog. I love that you get to explore the levels a little more. Yeah the levels are a little long but I somehow got all the S ranks despite having a time of 8, 10 or more minutes in a level. Also those Dark Gaia minions are so fun to beat up lol
I'm more of an explorer than a high speed player.
Glad I’m not the only one that enjoyed the werehog, there could’ve been less fights, but I’m ngl I really liked the platforming, it gave me jak and daxter vibes
I love gimmicks in Sonic games.
I will smack the next person who calls the wisps, aliens
Mat: *nervous sweta*
Lisps? I think I'll just with aliens if that's alright with you
@@michaelfryers1914 Wisps
@@demaunix2723 I know, I was making a reference to sonic colours because sonic just calls them aliens
@@michaelfryers1914 Wisps
I feel cheated... In your thumbnail the Werehog is S tier, but in the actual video it's actually A tier... smh
favorite gimmicks: team gimmick. guns, sword and werehog
least favorite gimmicks: wisp and classic sonic
Ditto!
Same
My least favorite gimmick is waiting 5 years for games
You like guns, the sword AND the werehog, those are my 3 least fave lmao, opinions are opinions tho, personally I like sonc 4s gimmick based acts and the colours and lost world wisps
@@hydrochloric007 true!
SEGA in a nutshell
Ideas: Hyper Sonic
Execution: Charmy
Charmy is awesome, hyper sonic is sonic but rings are drained, should be the other way round
@@cakelayer Bad ideas and good execution?
@@demaunix2723 no, sometimes they badly execute stuff (classic in forces) and sometimes good (Sonic 4s gimmick based acts)
Parkour should be a staple in the series!
I've never played Shadow the Hedgehog, but I feel like a gun fits him very well.
I played it and I agree.
Why though
My favorites are the Wisps and Mechs from SA2 and Colors.
I actually really loved the werehog, I don't understand why it was so hated
For me the Werehog should be S tier, just because it shows how platforming can be really fun if done like that
I really appreciate that you give praise to Unleashed and the Werehog and I'm always agreeing with so many opinions you have with it. If only the Hedgehog Engine made a comeback and was improved on. But then again, nothing will have as beautiful of visuals as Sonic Unleashed did. It really was an adventure.
S teir : werehog the team gameplay from heroes
A teir : the parkour the avatar generations classic sonic
B tier : the sword
C teir : wisps
D teir : guns forces classic sonic
It's my opinion
but arent forces classic and gens classic basically the same thing?
@@lemonate6163 forces classic sonic plays nothing like gens classic sonic
@@nedalomar4216 that makes no sense if there both classic sonic WHY WOULD they play different huh?
@@lemonate6163 what I'm saying forces classic sonic doesn't have the same control as gens classic sonic
"The aliens compliment *Mario*'s gameplay so well"
Also no, you cannot ignore them. Chaomix proved that completion is impossible with any less than 10 uses.
"I wouldn't mind some if the tricks being added to the Adventure gameplay. Like wallrunning or grabbing ledges."
Dude... what
I would put the werehog in S tier imo
Guns at low tier = me pissed
Wisps at high tier = me happy
i love everything about lost world, especially the parkour. made my day, dude :)
My favorite has to be the wherehog. There something just so satisfying when you beat the crap out of an enemy with the corpse of another enemy. You could also tecnically classify the level up system in unleased as a gimmick as well.
Honestly I don't have too much of a problem with Shadow having guns, I guess the idea is a little strange but it doesn't bother me much and when it comes to the gameplay, I think its pretty fun.
1:47 wait why does Sonic even have a shirt
I don’t understand why they added Classic Sonic to forces I mean if the point of him being there was for sales they should’ve tried to make Classic play well so people would get what they paid for lol
because they no longer have faith in modern sonic there too scared to make a fully 3d sonic game and they now have this mindset that a sonic game can't be good without classic sonic
But Sega doesn't want people to get what they paid for
@J Dawson The sad thing is that at Sonic Forces' reveal, everyone was cheering about Classic Sonic... But nobody knew that it would be terrible...
To add variety to the game, probably, which you do get in forces. its the first game since 06 to have 3 gameplay styles
plus another reason is maybe so even people who prefer classic sonic would get a slice of the cake in the game, which is understandable, but completely ignores the more hardcore audience and most people who've already played other classic sonic games to death. i hope they don't try to cater to everyone in the next game, and just focus on something consistent
@@GetShrekd if they want to pander to classic fans thats literally what mania is for forces is suppose to be for 3d fans classic sonic has no reason to be there.
Also if they wanted to add variety to the game they have a huge cast characters they can use to do that but they won't use them because they been so afraid to have sonic friends playable since 06
Pleasantly surprised with the top gimmick, but you're absolutely right. Parkour belongs in a Sonic game. On a similar vein, I liked Amy's triple jump and tightrope abilities in *redacted*.
The OC is an S tier idea, but in execution it's a fucking F tier.
After so many years of people making Sonic OCs, I couldn't have imagined an official Sonic OC creator being this bland. The customization is nice, but the creation is incredibly barebones.
Apparently Sega intentionally made the character creator basic so your OC wouldn't look as "cool" as Sonic and Co.
Ofc even with Sega trying to strangle the fandom's creativity there have been a few gems among the OCs (one of which partly inspired the creation of Whisper the Wolf for IDW).
@@lynxfresh5214 Yeah that's what I heard. So freakin dumb. You always end up looking like a background character.
The joke is that it is so bland that I actually named my mainavatar... "Avatar the Cat". It is actually better as a feature when one sees the character as a rando in the sonicworld instead of an actual OC made by a fan. That is how backwards it feels.
The Rookie is honestly one of the best parts of Sonic Forces. And the Wisps are underrated in Sonic Colors at least. I agree with everything on the list except for the Team Mechanic in Heroes, i'd put it in an A, i can't say it's worse than a Forces gimmick even tho i liked the game. (jk rookie still better) And werehog is in B, it's a decent gimmick but a lot of the werehog stages are bad so that's why it's in the B tier for me.
the problem with wisp is that they keep showing up in later games for no reason
@@jdawson7877 i'm talking about the Wisps in Sonic Colors, not the later games.
!naf cinoS
@@alternatenican Yes i know that but thats not what im talking about just like classic sonic the wisp should've just been a one time thing
@@hydrochloric007 dicA cirolhcordyH
Werehog and Wisps: Put in the A and S tiers
Me: What you did has made God very happy!
I feel like the wherehog is a pretty good hack and slash type style you just gotta be into those kind of games
Honestly I think giving Shadow a gun at least for his own title was a good idea. If they couldn't kill him off as was intended in SA2 then he needed a strong identity as the "edgy and dark" anti-hero alternative to Sonic to justify his continued existence.
Werehog in the A tier: LIT
Rookie is placed above it: BULLSHIT
To be fair, though the idea was beyond stupid, the guns in Shadow actually worked pretty damn well. They were fun to use (most of the time) and helped the combat to not drag like in 06 or Heroes. It’s the only time where enemies with health bars actually worked (outside of the Werehog).
My ranking
-1000. Classic Sonic (Forces) (Need I say more? No redeeming qualities)
7. Sword (Black Knight) (Interesting idea, but controls horribly and a pace breaker)
6. Avatar (Forces) (Fun idea, but completely wasted, like everything in Forces)
5. Guns (Shadow) (See above)
4. Wisps (Colors) (Specifically talking Colors. Worked well here, but way, WAY overused and pointless in every other game. Kinda broke the pace sometimes)
3. Parkour (Lost World) (Another wasted idea, but really fun when actually utilized. Would love to see this get another chance)
2. Classic Sonic (Generations) (Fun and well designed, but I’d still rather play Modern. Classic Sky Sanctuary still one of my favorite Sonic levels ever.)
1. Werehog (Unleashed) (Levels can drag, but I don’t mind. I am a Werehog apologist)
Didn’t include Hero/Dark in SA2 because it has no impact on gameplay
I was actually really suprised you didn't like the gun gameplay, and was looking forward to some of your reasons for putting it in D Tier.
Then you moved on.
Same with Heroes, what's up with you in this video? I thought you were gonna bash the fact the switching itself is inconsistent or the fact you can't always switch to your teammates but no you just didn't give any insight on why you put it in B Tier
I love the Werehog and it’s most enjoyable to play as when fully levelled up. It’s also not to hard because of the ring glitch in Chun-nan (rip-off china) which allows you to buy food to level up. You can also play the waiting game because as long as you don’t level up the normal sonic often, then the Werehog will be almost max level by the time you get to the second final boss. I suggest doing both. You’ll get the best out of the Werehog if you level up his combos (beautiful fighting styles that are worth unlocking), strength (makes the levels slightly shorter) and life (less likely to die so less time spent), the other options aren’t as necessary but I still recommend upgrading them.
I love the Werehog because I consider it a perfect fusion of strength and speed. And the stretchy arms benefit how he fights when you unlock combos, so that doesn’t bother me. The only thing I don’t like is the name, only because people pointed out the mistake that it were stands for human , so instead it should be called a Hedge-wolf. That never bothered me until people mentioned it…
Classic sonic isn't a gimmick, he's technically he's a different character
I did really like the sword quite a bit. I also like the idea of parkour for sonic. I've never gotten to play lost world but I've seen it and the parkour looks like it could work. Anything that could get us closer to running like sonic does in the sonic CD short.
Sega gives sonic a sword
Matthasnocuts: yes
Sega gives shadow a gun
Matthasnocuts: GET THE HELL OUT OF MY FACE
Man, the guns in Shadow the Hedgehog are very good and fun to use.
" i just can't stand the idea of giving sonic characters guns"
you must really hate fang the sniper
G.U.N. has a gun, how does that make you feel?
Also, every badnik including Gamma and Omega have guns.
I can guarantee this list is gonna change every new release. Soon we're gonna be praising classic sonic as the second coming of Christ.
The sword was fun, too bad you basically came to a screeching halt whenever you swung that thing.
Me watching the video: Ok I see your points and I understand what you mean and why you like these ideas.
My Inner Sonic Fanboy: STOP CALLING THEM ALIENS, THEIR CALLED WISPS!
S:
A: 3D (Adventure), Classic Sonic
B: Hero and Dark Side, Parkour, Sword, Rookie, Wisps, Team Gameplay,
C: Guns, Werehog, Classic Sonic (Forces),
D:
I agree.
The gimmicks can be intressting
Funny thing, the reason Shadow had guns was because the fans themselves wanted to see Sonic with a gun.
“Sonic characters should not have guns” But omega literally has gun arms
If I remember correctly Eggman has guns, and G.U.N. has well, guns
@@hydrochloric007 I just put omega since they’re both on team dark, guns are literally a part of his body, and one time Matt said that sonic characters should not have guns, omega was literally standing right beside shadow
I’m thinking Sonic 06’s failure has to do with lack of gimmicks in recent games.
Forces’ failure too.
Wikipedia: Any object can be used as a Weapon when used to attack or threaten a being as well as for self-defense.
D - Sonic Characters with Weapons (Everyone has them except Sonic {not counting his spines})
B- Sword is a Weapon
I'm just kidding guys.
>Colors' wisps on the S tier
Finally, someone who gets it :^)
All I would change about them is making the transformation/activation instant, and making hover less painfully slow. But they're one of the few gimmicks I never had a big problem with, they were really well done.
Strange because the DS version of Colors and the 3DS version of Lost World did the instant transformation thing. To this day I still don't get why they didn't do it for the console versions but, it's no big deal.
great to see that the werehog is having the love it deserves, I love that gameplay, it has its flaws but they do not take away from the fun for me.
my favorite Gimmicks are the Werehog, Caliburn and wisps, I had so much fun with these
Awesome video. I like the specific guns like the satellite gun in hedghog better than sword gameplay.
perfect tier list
I absolutely agree with this list!
Seeing the where hog getting respect makes me respect you back ✊
My favorite gimmick is the partner switch in mania plus
I don't understand the distain of sonic characters using guns, I mean for shadow and most characters it's stupid
but there is a character that had a gun before shadow and it made sense because it was apart of their character Fang the Sniper.
It's probably because 2005 left a sour taste in everyone's mouth.
didn't G.U.N. uhhhhhhhh SHOOT MARIA in sa2? Yeah this argument is bad
@Spritvio What even happened in 2005?
Ah yes, the Wis-
"the aliens from sonic colors"
Oh, ok
lol
No guns in Sonicgames. Except the police(SA1 opening cutscene) and the military(Gun uses guns a lot, lol) and the mechs(Those weapons on them are basically just stronger guns) and Dr. Eggman(The cutscenes where he threatens the life of amy) and the E-Series robots(Their arms are guns) and Omega(He literally has miniguns built into him) and the Avatar(Wispon) and er....Tails(in the cutscene when he was almost controlled by the deadly six) and the Egg robos and....the tornado and the 06 eggman-robots and....and....
The fact there exists a military organization called "G.U.N". It's almost seems like Sega actually WANTS Sonic characters to use guns... the horror... :0
@Lynx Fresh Or it might be a coincidence. But I don't think GUoN makes very makes very much sense so just shorten it to GUN. GUoN sounds like a fine pasta
2 additions I would add:
SS Tier: Super Sonic in Sonic 2 and following games.
F Tier: Good/Neutral/Evil Mission system in Shadow the Hedgehog.
Super sonic is horrible! The rings get constantly drained, wheres the fun in that?
@@cakelayer it's a risk/reward factor that gives incentive to keep your momentum and resource management properly in exchange for a massive power boost. The alternative of making it without the drawbacks would just have it be scrutinized as a win button and not as fondly liked as it currently is.
I love the Werehog and Sonic Unleashed is my favorite game. But I wouldn't consider him a gimmick. He is more like a alternate playstyle in the same way the Adventure games has multiple playable characters.
If i had to make guns more useful. Id have targets being a thing to open doors or work as a way to open things
Look at lego.for example
Sonic having a sword is the most badass thing to come in the series over Shadow having a gun?
The werehog was my favorite character in unleashed and also my second favorite is also the parkour in lost world
Sonic with guns, nooooo
Sonic with swords? Aw yeah!!!!
It doesn't make sense huh
Imo, my problem with the parkour system is that the level design doesn't really utilize it much, it's always just an optional path, it's one of the reasons I like the 3DS version since it utilities it a lot more but that's just me.
The Rookie/Avatar, the team gameplay, the sword, and the parkour are all awesome and I would love anyone of them to come back. Sword and team mechanic are the least likely to return though.
The avatar is my favorite part of forces actually. One of the few reasons I go back to play the game. (The soundtrack is the other reason I go back to play the game.)
That said, ClassicSonic in Forces is okayish to me. I do think his physics suck, but I don't think he's the worst thing I've ever experienced in Sonic. (That goes to the enterity of Secret Rings.)
100% agreed with the list. Wow.
I cant recover from the immense damage i got from matt putting hero/dark in C tier and not in the SSSS+++ ULTRA tier
I was hoping that the boost was gonna be on here but I guess it’s not a gimmick. If is was I would put it on S tier.
The Werehog is Badass.
Imagine matthasnocuts list:
I like Classic Sonic in Forces. His Levels are one of my favorites.
I was happy till I saw the rookie. This is a fine gimmick until u realise he took the spot of one of our beloved characters.
Colors and Werehog are probably my two favorite gimmicks
Interesting, but what about the mech, treasure hunting & fishing levels?
Finally someone spoke faccs. The only thing I don't agree with is the guns being in D because I genuinely like the guns and I feel they're implemented well enough into a sonic game, but then again, I really like shadow as a game so I am a bit biased
Would have been nice to see a full teir list of all of them together somewhere.
You can call me crazy or an idiot but I loved the gun gimmick from Shadow the hedgehog!
Aliens/Wisps are F tier should have never existed
They’re not that bad
Nah, they're pretty S tier atleast for Colors. Generations they get a D, Lost World maybe a C and Forces maybe a B or an A.
Dont get me wrong they were good for that game (Colors), but leave them in that game, they dont need to return.
I’ll never forgive this video for not adding Sonic’s Genie ring from SATSR because as huge lover of that game and also someone who loves the gimmick I wanted to see opinions on it.
Finally, caliburn getting some love
Classic sonic generations, lost world parkour and wisp is s
Avatar, Werehog ,dark vs hero is A
B is Excalibur
C is classic sonic forces
D is hero mechanic (this is probably my biased against heroes)
I got scared at first when you said Classic Sonic
Other sonic characters have guns like fang and eggman.
The difference is that Eggman and Fang had cartoony guns that fits in the world of Sonic. An MP5 doesn't fit in the world of Sonic.
It's funny. If you mismatched the length of the avatar levels with the werehog game play, and the customizability of werehog actions with the avatar game play, I bet that these gimmicks would both be S tier
My theory is that Classic Sonic in forces was only there to promote Sonic Mania.
I really loved the guns in shadow the hedgehog and the parkour system in sonic lost is cool but I don't like most of the stages in sonic lost world it would have been better if it was a bit realistic like sonic unleashed and it could've been one of the best sonic game
Sorry, I haven't played Sonic Lost World yet. Could someone explain me what the parkour gimmick is about ?