Development of the SIG P220, aka the Swiss P75 Army Pistol
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- Опубліковано 15 тра 2018
- / forgottenweapons
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The SIG 210, aka the P49, was a magnificent pistol, but really too expensive for a modern military sidearm. In the 1960s, the Swiss military began looking for a new service sidearm that would be a bit less costly, and SIG developed the 220 in response, which would ultimately be adopted as the P75. The P75 would maintain the basic structure of the P49, but used a folded sheet metal slide design and an alloy frame, significant departures from the all-milled construction of the P49. In today's video, was have a fantastic set of P75 pistols to look at and see the whole developmental process. This includes two iterations of the first prototypes of the design, one of the very first production Army P75s, a standard late production P75 showing the final simplified features, and a Z-series border patrol example with its unique magazine release shield.
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Glad to see this video, I've always wondered where the excellent Sig P22x series originated from, and what they looked like at the beginning.
Despite some people complaining about reviewing weapons that are not forgotten.
I'm not against the idea that you also cover "unforgotten" weapons, because even on models we think we know everything about, your expertise allow us to learn things.
It's good to see what worked in a setting where you can compare it to what didn't work.
It's absolutely reasonable, because I'd consider some of the prototypes and the Zoll version "forgotten". At least noone is really aware of those. It's always great to see a development in detail and take a look at what lead to the final version everyone is familiar with.
I'm fine with videos on well-known firearms when they are presented this way - with their development history, showing various prototypes, etc. It's very different from your basic "wooo, a gun, pew pew" channels.
Forgotten Weapons might as well be called "Firearm History" at this point and as a history enthusiast I'm more than happy with it.
Frankly, l don't care if Ian makes a video about Gen 3 Glocks, l'll still watch it. Just like you said, there's always something to learn.
I own a Sig P220R bought mine in 2013 the Slide isn't stamped steel.
Mine was made in The U.S.
Came with two "8" round magazines. Has a rail for a light/laser..
Short reach trigger.night sights..
So it's pretty good .
Great combat gun
Your channel is a never ending fountain of knowledge! I am Swiss and just recently purchased a K31 from army stock and I am now in the process of getting a P75 (army designation for the P220). Your channel provided so much information about our excellent weapons, thank you for that.
I own a K31....love it...very accurate!
Got my P220 on Thursday from Arsenal.
Will be trying it out in a couple of weeks.
It was my secondary weapon for my military service. The day after i finished my Service, i bought one that looked like it has been holstered more than shot. It makes a great pair with my fullauto Sig550 in the save.
What?
Lol this looks like it was typed on the first ever portable Nokia
I'm jealous of you Swiss cheese
@@hoppinggnomethe4154 Full auto rifles get basically always converted to semi-auto after you're done with being militia reserve
I think you could’ve bought it for something like 30.- after finishing the service, like you did with your Fass 90 😅, still i hope you’re enjoying it, a really good handgun indeed
I carried the P 75 in the swiss army from 2000-2010. Since 2010 it's in my private possession. The serial number of my P 75 is 1158 XXX
1 108 XXX
Can I buy it from you
@@tonyd.4568
Sorry but not possible. I live in Switzerland.
We've seen this backdrop in combination with prototype or rare pistol collections quite often by now. I envy the guy who owns all of these fabulous examples of firearms history. Thank you for the video, seeing stuff about Swiss firearms is always a pleasure.
The Swiss Army division I served in was first equipped with the P220 in 1979. Although a bit heavy I loved the simplicity and the fact that there was no longer a safety lever, it got replaced with the de-cocker and was a novelty at that time. The Swiss military had the 9mm caliber edition while exports were manufacturer as the .45 caliber version. I wish I never had to surrender this pistol.....
definitely not a forgotten weapon; i'm currently in the swiss army and just received the P75 as my personal weapon ;)
I use it in the swiss armed force, really nice gun but I would say it's a bit heavy.
It's always nice to see a video about guns I used a lot and their history ^^
I have a 229 (West German frame, but Exeter milled slide). Even there, it is amazing how familiar many of the parts look. It was interesting to see how they arrived there.
There's always this mystique surrounding Swiss firearms, but when you look at how quickly and effectively they improve each design, it's not hard to understand why. There's just so much collective experience in that factory.
It's Mike Stoklasa, from RedLetterMedia on youtube
I thought that was Susan.
Honestly the heel catch has always seemed just as fast as a side mounted button catch and even if a push button is faster there are very few instances where that will actually save you
I still hate the Sig p226, that Sig p210 interested me though.
@@xmm-cf5eg reason of hate?
The P220 family has always been my favourite for as long as I've been interested in firearms (the H&K USP is a close second place), really cool to see these early prototypes. The first two especially, it's so neat to see the P210 design morph into the P220 like that.
I was in my local gun store back in the early 1990s looking for DA/SA in .45 acp. When I picked up the P220, it point so naturally in my hand. I bought it, and never regretted it. It is my primary home defense gun. The change I made to the gun was to add a LaserMax guide rod laser sight (basically a plug-n-play modification). I would never sell that gun.
Don't you sporterize it
Just getting my first Sig. A P220 carry with a .22lr conversion kit on the side. This was an excellent video and I'm chomping at the bit to go shooting both the .45 and .22lr setups. Thanks.
The shield on the border patrol pistol is to address the issue of the pistol scrubbing the mag release when carried in a police style holster and getting in and out of vehicles . As a side not H&K addressed this same issue on the p7 by retrofitting a different mag release and re shaping the grips to guard it .
This makes sense as I would imagine a Customs Agent could conceivably be found crawling around in the back of a trailer truck inspecting the cargo.
For the north American market they moved it to a thumb release on the grip midway up the trigger guard. Works well with my pinch type holster where the heel button almost invariably came in contact with EVERYTHING and released the magazine so it dropped as soon as I got out of my truck.
the shield on the heel mag release is to prevent accidentally hitting it when the officer pistol whips a suspect during difficult apprehension.
ok, probably not, but that would have been my guess.
That is correct. It was supposed to solve vehicle seating issues.
That's exactly what I was thinking. Since the customs enforcement usually drives in normal cars (maybe even with sport seats if the people buying the vehicles don't know what they're doing) so that would be a constant issue
This is pure gold, not just the firearm but the detailed explanation upon the mechanical functionality of it is 🥇.
I have a very detailed plastic replica of this gun that I got working on a Jet Li film. Since the movie was a Kung Fu movie there weren't many guns in it but we had a couple of plastic guns on hand for cops to carry in their holsters, or have in hand in the background, etc. One of the hero guns was a stainless steel automatic and we needed a silver stand-in for stunts. The director came to me and I showed him what we had (there was also a toy Beretta, I took the orange cap out of the end of it) and he had me spray paint this very expensive Sig replica silver. When I brought it back to the prop house at the end of production our sales rep refused to accept it, and so I still have it.
I got it out while watching this video and disassemble it. I am amazed how realistic the internals are. Unfortunately, I don't have any of the dummy rounds for it, but I do think it was capable of firing a blank round of some kind. I guess I need to do some research on it.
Also, it looks to be a replica of that second to last P-75 shown in the video, but it has P220 on the slide (all the markings look realistic).
Damn dude… you really get creds. Exceptional understanding of the evolutionary moves for Sig.
I’d love to see you expand this series on the P series. The changes to commercial 226, sand frame rails, switching to machines to extend the service life over the two piece breach, the Navy changes, etc. The P226 and the AR15 are the two most continuously evolved semi modern platforms so they’re extra cool.
My first handgun a P226 9mmL
w/ formed slide.
Now 40 S&W with a conversion kit that has a milled slide. Both are like target grade guns on one frame. 26 years and still keeping the P226 in my nightstand
Gotta love sig barrel "smiles" my p226 mk 25 looks so similar to that that it's scary. And the firing pin safety is a stroke of genius.
I had an opportunity to buy a BDA 220 in 9mm some years back and foolishly passed up on it. I have a 220R equinox and a nitron now, but man I wish I could go back in time and buy that BDA.
That cut way pistol is super cool. It is the perfect tool for you to demonstrate function. At least with this pistol. I'm curious how the owner got their hands on that?
@@quentintin1 A gun shop near where I live has a B.A.R. training aid from WWII hanging on the wall; not only is it cutaway, it's also 200% scale, I suppose so the GIs at the back of the room can see what's going on. :)
@@ZGryphon
So 2:1 scale?
Collecting cutsway instruction are a nice collectors` field. Since the cannot be fired atall, even gunshy countries allow posession - as far as I know.
Thanks Ian, history of the firearms you cover is much appreciated.
Ken Helmers I was thinking the same thing , I've watched this channel for years taking it for granted . So well done
Glad to learn from your clip my P220 has a folded slide. I’ll include your videos in my sig collection if you agree!
Thanks Jp
Great video! I have a P220 Legion in 10mm and love it!!
excellent content, as always. I've been a SIG lover for a few years now and own several. Getting a later model (2012) P220 in a couple of days. Great to see the history behind it. Thanks for always providing great detailed info.
Thanks, I've always liked SIGs a lot and this was very interesting. That cut-away demonstrator was really cool.
I have a P210 in 9mm and a P220 in .45 ACP. Both West German and are both amazing.
My service gun! Not the most modern service gun for combat but of high quality and fits the purpose of our military!
The JSDF was using them until 2019.
@@subarusensei3685 Did they replace it now?
@@Tranefine yes, a VP9 variant now.
Its gonna take a awhile since the announced it last year.
I own a P220 and had no idea it had military origins. But of course, almost all weapons do. Thanks.
I believe the initial army production of P75/P220 lasted until late 1980, early 1981. I received mine after officers’ school in June 1982 and the rounded slide had been replaced by the squarer one. Still own it but its hard trigger doesn’t make it as pleasant to shoot as my other pistols (Sphinx 3000 Competition, P226 X-Five Super Match in 9mm Para or P229 Sport in .357 SIG). Great review, thanks a lot.
Great video as always, I've always had a thing for Sig pistols, such style functionality
Really enjoyed watching this , I have a p220 match elite so I was interested in its history , awesome video , professionally done . Thank you for what you guys do !
Back in the late '70s, .45 P220s were imported by Browning as the BDA and were considered outstanding SA/DA pistols; actually, pretty much the ONLY DA .45 pistol for a while.
I own the 1975 Browning BDA45. Have matching box, magazine and booklet.
I have a friend who carried one of the Browning BDA marked Sigs as a Deputy Sheriff in Sacramento CA back in the 80s & 90s.
Thank you for explaining the improved tilting barrel in such a great way.
Thanks indeed. Seeing it work is understanding.
Very cool! I've hung onto my west German made p228 for a while now. Smoothest DA/SA trigger I've felt in a sig. The cool "historical" markings are just a bonus on such a fantastic firearm.
Great stuff. It would be cool if you could do a presentation about the evolution of the p226 to the Mk25!
Please please review the Sig sg 550!!!
After the P210 the P220 basically wraps it up for classic DA/SA swiss guns, only followed by the P225 which was adopted basically by all swiss police and some swiss military special forces and is for me a tick more practical (Compact version of the P220). I still own and use it today (proud swiss guy).
Great video on Sig history, loved it!
My service weapon. Absolute classic.
I love the Sig 22x series. My EDC was a Sig P225 for ten+ years. It's still one of my favorites.
Really liked that cut-out gun. Always good to review
The modern style 220 in 45 was one of my first, nightsight, non rail and a decent trigger, loved that design. Wanted a 220 X6 before the US change up. Moved on since the change to 10mm but would love to try a 5 inch. Awesome vid, keep up the good work.
I have an early P229 and it's one of the nicest shooting pistols I've ever fired.
The P 210 and 220 are really superb firearms, I used both as target pistols in a Swiss shooting club. Only the grip protrusions around the de-cocker makes them very awful to use for lefthanders. They press into the joint of the trigger finger and you lose feel for the trigger.
I love my P220. Very interesting to see its lineage. Thanks for sharing
Thank you for this, I was looking for a video on this when I got mines(1989 model) . Ian really is a gun Jesus.
As always a great video, and this is such a cool gun
P220 is my favourite pistol when it comes to looks, right next to 1911. I'd love to get to shoot one some day.
Gotta love Swiss small arms!!!
Jordan Flayer I'll agree even if one forgets to say small.
And cheese and chocolates and cuckoo clocks....😊
@@dscrappygolani7981 Actually cuckoo clocks we leave to the Germans in the Black Forest... we produce fob watches and wrist watches... cheers
@@sksaddrakk5183 What's your favorite Swiss watchmaker? I'm partial to JLC. Big fan of their dress watches.
@@Chironex_Fleckeri I can only afford swatch. I like their irony line. Oris have fine looking watches ad well. But I am not a fan of spending thousands of dollars on something which is a tool. And whose function nowadays are taken over by smart phones.
Although I fell in love with the later versions like the P228, this has always been my favorite handgun.
I got my Pistole 75 after only 4 days of service a bit more than a year ago. it is my first pistol ever and I really enjoy it. I dont get what the borderpatrol thinks about magazine retention because i really struggled pulling back the lever of this thing during a very cold day on the range in Airolo. (it generally sits super tight or its just my lack of experience and thats completely normal).
good gun, i will definetly keep it for its satisfying function and memories i made with it.
Very well done. Fantastic video!!!!
nice video! most very useful video I've ever seen.
Amazing video, happy to have just found it. Thanks Ian
Great (as always). I would have appreciated if you had gone one more step and shown the first commercially available P220 and the variants there after.
great presentation on early sig's I have a 1983 west german made 220 in .45 nice to know the background
Ian has a way with words “runs like it was made with buttered glass”
The ramp was there because as customs officers crawled around inside confined spaces and vehicle interiors, wearing modernish duty holsters which exposed the butt to contact, it was common to drag the butt of the pistol across surfaces which could release the magazine.
Obviously this happened enough to cause it to be an issue that needed to be addressed.
I used to own a Sig220 for work, sadly had to sell it. Got a p226 now, but its really interesting to see how the Sig p220 started out.
I seem to have missed this video for a whole year! Strange because the P22x series is one of my favorite handguns, specifically the 220, which as the standard sidearm of the Swedish Police has always been the one I've been the most exposed to in real life. It's also one of the few pistols I've gotten to personally fire - I forget exactly which variant it was, at a Californian gun range back in 2011. As a very casual gun-enjoyer, it's a big deal!
I have had several P220s, including a West German one. I thought I had all the variants I wanted. I desperately want that screw adjusting sight from the first prototype.
Ian and IV8888 both talking Swiss guns today.
Another great video!
Thanks to the collector who shared these.
Great video! Thanks
Outstanding history lesson. Thanks!
The changes to the slide are because of possible cracks of the early versions. The second is built stronger and will work for a long time.
Buttered glass, love that description GJ
Great to learning the history of my service gun.
It's interesting how the locking pin didn't oval out its hole in the alloy frame, as happened with the Inglis Hi-Power.
Thanks Ian!
More modern stuff is always welcome, it's nice to see where our current guns kinda come from.
A non-military P210 should be outfitted with fancy wood to accentuate its classiness. P220s look best when they're two-tone with wood grips (but that's true for pretty much any pistol that doesn't have a polymer frame).
*Note:* I have a first-gen American-pattern P220 that I bought used/like-new back in 2007 for $550 (K-coat finish, original grips).
Great to know the history of the p75/p220 and I have a version of the p220 in 9mm with a North American button magazine release.
Great video.
The Fireplace Man strikes again with a bunch of prototypes and rare versions.
Always funny how most people think stamping is easy, or injection molding, yes once it is running it is cheap and requires minimal skill on the production end. To get it there requires a ton of proper design knowledge and expertise in the process/tooling. Astra copy being a perfect example.
Love to see where my US made P220R got its start. I believe mine has a milled slide, but still has the separately machined breech block which the newer guns lack.
I received one as a birthday gift from my wife last year. It's my EDC.
Thank you dor making this video. This handgun always has peaked my interest🎩
Piqued... just saying.
Thank you, very good learning.
I prefer the von stavenhagen sights of the older ones. Ive got an old(ish), Internal extractor 220 that I peeled the dots off and threw on the trusty bar on the rear
Great video, just subscribed. My modern P220 has serrations on the bottom of the trigger guard and I have no idea why they added that.
excellent video good info
My p220 elite and I enjoyed watching this
Great vid...I once had an airsoft version of this and it had one improvement over the "real deal" (don't know if they actually changed that with the real guns, too):
A button to release the magazine...heel releases are kind of funky IMHO (if the mag drops freely you can reload faster, right?), especially for a military gun where sometimes every second counts when reloading!
Still, great video like always, Ian! Thank you (I should really join the patreon, as much as I watch your videos!)
Hopefully to be soon followed by the SIG Saur connection and the P6 / SIG 225 genesis. Geoff Who regrets not buying a 225 when the price was only mildly obscene and not buying a surplus P6 when they were available...sigh...regrets I'm had a few...
Yeah, I bought a Simunition converted P6 for $329 (and used it as such in some training), after a live barrel (took forever to find one), new grips, refinished slide and fresh internals-springs etc it is my carry gun. Too bad they are so expensive now...
Sig was always ridiculously proud of their pistols. I've wanted a P226 or P226 to represent service pistols, but those prices...
I love SIG P225!!
A few years ago the police force I work for bought ~400 P6 pistols for 1€ per piece from another police force that was getting new pistols ;)
Thats how I got a decent P225. In Switzerland when Police or Military gets rid of Weapons the sell it on the market so chances are high that you may lay hands on a SIG225 with special Police Markings on it (I like the compact size and the compact grip of the P225 as it uses single stack Mags 8+1) . One of the best guns for me and this is the reason I do not like the P226, P228 or P229 as they use doublestack Mags and the Grip is much wider.
Excellent video
I have carried a P220 since 1984
The magazine release guard prevents the magazine flying out when the pistol is used to pistol whip.
Another difference with Zoll P.75/95, aside from the lanyard loop switched for the magazine release protection and the night sights, are the silver magazines used instead of the standard black ones. Don't know if it's stainless steel or just a finish, but they are pretty distinctive. Also, a small quantity (100 of 2000, IIRC) were issued with "short triggers", allegedly for female agents with small hands.
Very interesting seeing the evolution. The modern Sig P220 in .45 is held in high regard by the venerable Massad Ayoob.
I bought my p220 around 1998 and I still carry it. I have replaced the plastic grips with hogue grips and put on 3 dot tritium sights. It says it's made in Germany. Its still one of my favorite handguns.
Made my military service with this pistol and I hated it.
Although I repaced the plastic shells to nice Walnut-wood,
(I knew someone working at SIG, I grew up in the village beneath Neuhausen)
I never really was a friend of my service pistol.
Officiers have been equiped with the P210 then,
(I now own a private P210-6) that's another league of pistols.
Very informative
Beautiful pistols
Got one in .45 Auto and i love it.
“Did you realize that? Perhaps not.” - Ian asserting his intellectual dominance
Three Dot Night... great band