A CLIMBING SHOE THAT IS ACTUALLY GOOD FOR YOUR TOES?!!
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- Опубліковано 3 жов 2024
- Saltic Barefoot Climbing Shoes: barefootsaltic...
High Performance Climbing Shoes (with high asymmetry + relatively wide toebox)
Butora Gomi: alnk.to/3U1zbIg
Evolv Geshido: alnk.to/1XXeoLd
Toe socks: alnk.to/4Xtmj17
Modular Toe Spacers - amzn.to/3zsDied
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I got these for almost a year now and yes, theyre amazing (im from czech). As all equipment theres pros and cons. Well.. only one con for me actually and thats the fact that if climb has a penny sized foothold, then youre done there. For pros its obviously health state of my foot, theres no horn growing on top of my toe knuckle, theres no pain. Theres no edge to wear off, im still wearing first pair with no repair after a year of climbig (once a week), theyre slabs kings and volume holders, i dont remmber what was the last time i slipped as i can really feel whats going on under the foot, that applies to all holds but on slabs or volumes the difference is massive. Also I really think they have improved my technique quite a lot. Mainly first couple of months as youre toe is not strong enough to stand comfortably on small edges, you really start to find new ways to do stuff, im really effective with hooks bcse of that. Also it improved my overall balance as you use all fingers in the foot. About sizes its really true. I got 43/44 foot and im using 41 size and you can still walk in them. I did 11 hour via ferrata with them with no taking off. Well that is sort of a issue :D theyre so comfy that you dont take them off and then they start to smell real real bad. I had to resort to washing them every so often and im not a person with smelly feet.
I agree with your points, love climbing just for fun, but I hate the shoes! And getting stronger feet instead of pain is even better.
I’m a big fan of this video and I hope the barefoot trend catches on in the rock climbing community, like it has in the running community. The Huaorani people climb trees from the time they’re toddlers, and have strong, well-developed toes and feet. Their muscled feet look like hands and help them climb. Westerners didnt grow up like that, so our feet are much weaker, less dexterous and prone to deformities (bunions, etc).
Climbers are dismissive of barefoot climbing shoes because their feet aren’t strong enough to be used effectively. We have no idea what we’re missing.
It's unfortunate that the foot is so often overlooked as being trainable. Hopefully people who train other parts of their bodies to high performance can imagine the potential once they are reminded that the foot is muscle and bone, too.
Do you think gym climb is more like monkey climbing tree or goats climbing mountain
@@shanybody more like monkeys, because monkeys also climb rocks. Rhesus monkeys are found on mountains in Japan, and Gelada monkeys live exclusively on mountains. So I figure they climb rocks just fine.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but my initial intuitive reaction is:
Isn't climbing actually barefoot where your toes can move in the way you're describing (like hands) completely different than climbing in "barefoot" shoes? It's like the difference between bare hands and hands wearing thin mittens...
Just wanted to provide some feedback.
I get the point you're trying to make but the climbs you used to demonstrate the effectiveness of your new shoe doesn't make too much sense to me.
The yellow overhang has footchips only at the start of the problem, where the wall is still relatively vert. On the overhanging section of the wall, both the feet and hands are quite large minus that one footchip to the right but the left foot is still good so I don't see how this shows that the Saltics is good for overhangs. I'd also like to see what the Saltics look like on more aggressive overhangs (>45°) as well as roof climbs, where foot stabbing, toe hooks and heel hooks may play more of a part.
For the slab which you were unable to start, I get that you felt closer to the move on the Saltics but the only difference is that you reached your hand out in the Saltics and didn't in your Scarpas. Please correct me if I'm wrong but it doesn't look like you're close to sticking the move regardless as your hips are immediately falling away from the wall as your hand makes contact with the hold.
For the blue slab, it looked less like the shoe was why the start was hard as opposed to just not having found the body position to make the move. Once you found it, it looked pretty similar with both shoes. For the slipping of the foot, it makes perfect sense to me that a painful downsized stiff shoe would be harder to smear in comparison to a comfortable soft shoe.
The Saltics looks to be a great soft smearing shoe but I'd like to see how it looks when standing on small footholds (e.g. 4mm) and more aggressive overhang.
All this criticism aside, I'd like to thank you for bringing attention to these shoes as I haven't heard of them before. I also agree and believe that not everyone needs to aggressively downsize their shoes and hurt their feet, which I'm glad you're bringing attention to.
That's fair. I made my conclusions based on months of climbing and only filmed a few climbs for comparison. I did not want to film any more comparisons because of how much I despise the tighter shoes, and I donated them to the gym as soon as I got a few clips.
The yellow overhang is not a good example, but the conclusion is based on other routes with small foot chips as well. I used them on the 45 wall but my gym actually doesn't have anything more overhanging than that (biggest downside to the gym for sure).
On the slab I was unable to start, I wasn't able to reach my right hand out because I had to keep my weight on that hand, I wasn't able to pull myself into the wall with the left hand like I could with the Saltics. But no I was not particularly close to landing it with the Saltics.
4mm I believe is smaller than any foot chips they have in my gym and I know that for outdoor you need to use foot chips that size and smaller. This would be the biggest downfall of the Saltics.
This is just what I've been looking for! Hate the fact that I use barefoot shoes to heal my feet and then when I go climbing I destroy all that progress...
climbing won't revert your progress. 12h a week of climbing in small shoes will not affect your toe shape
@@hypnogri5457 my dude, literally look around the climbing gym at the people with bare feet. You will see bunions at a rate normally found in a nursing home. Just because you haven't gotten bunions doesn't mean other people don't.
@@JakeLeary prevalence among climbers is extremely high, but I doubt that all of those affected wear barefoot shoes outside of the gym and make sure to take off their shoes after each climb. Barefoot shoes and proper feet care would probably make that incredibly high statistic sound more reasonable
For the past year, I have been wearing barefoot shoes as a daily and now i have been climbing barefoot as much as i can. Its nice to know that there is a wide toebox climbing shoe.
def wear what makes you happy, but your logic is flawed IMO. Your footwork with the big toebox shoes are not helping you climb from what I can see.
You should try a set of moccs that fit snug, not tight, if you want to build foot strength. Soft shoes make you use you feet much more, but if they are not tight enough, your foot WILL roll inside the shoe, which is absolutely detrimental to performing at any level.
I think you never learned to use you feet properly and these are allowing you to understand there is more to footwork than just edging....because you cant edge in those at all from what I can see, so your forcing the learning. This isn't to say its a bad thing for your progression, but you will 100% find the limit of that shoe very quickly.... off the top of my head, I suggest Funky Tut (V3) at the milks to compare these with "normal" style shoes.
It does not look like your footwork is "heinous." Thank you for making this video, I do wear barefoot shoes for walking around but still developed bunions from wearing tight climbing shoes. I'd like to see another follow up video to see long-term effects after using the shoes if you don't mind!
to be fair bro, your footwork is absolutely heinous. you're wearing oversized shoes and compensating with your physical strength and your takeaway is that the flat shoe is better somehow is completely biased. not saying these things are useless, but your argument is very weak.
Imagine trying to stand on a chip hold without shoes on, thats what its like wearing a soft wide toebox climbing shoe. Regardless of footwork skill you aren't going to be able to precisely balance on a footchip without a super stiff and ergonomically poor shoe. This is the reason why I train in scarpa veloce shoes half a size too large but send my projects in very tight evolv shamans.
both of you entirely missed his point. He literally says in the beginning that downturned aggressive shoes are superior for high-end climbing. He says that he climbs V5 and V6 in the gym so he does not need high-end shoes. His entire purpose for the argument is that they are healthier for the foot, in which case he is entirely correct. Anything that pushes the big toe inward is not anatomically correct and depending on how much it is done leads to varying levels of problems. So don't attack the dude's climbing ability, and don't have the IQ of a gnat and miss his entire purpose of posting this which is about FOOT HEALTH, not performance climbing.
I agree with this sentiment so much. I've been climbing in comfy shoes 95% of the time and only pulling out more aggressive shoes when needed. Also my comfy shoes are way cheaper so that's an added bonus. For most people on most climbs more aggressive shoes are not needed.
Finally something like this!
This past summer I've done my best to wear shoes as little as possible, the longest was a full month without wearing shoes and then only a few hours with shoes on before taking them off again. I've gained so much more grip already, actually using my toes to stabilize myself while walking stairs and stuff. Not at the point where my normal shoes don't fit anymore, but my nice fancy office shoes (that are extra thin) are getting very tight.
It's really just dumb how we as a society let this become the norm.
glad to come across this as another person newer to climbing but has done a lot with near-barefoot shoes for other challenging activities
Nice video ... I hope this shoes does solve a problem which hopefully many climbers have and want to solve. I want to try them but before I invest any money I want some ppl talk good about them. At the moment I can't imagine that it really works to climb well and have such a wide toe box
you dont need barefoot climbing shoes, with your poor foot placement you can do the same with crocs. If you want to keep healthy joints climb easy route with any soft shoe/crocs
No, I’ve tried in other barefoot shoes including the BeLenka Trailwalkers and they were absolutely not a replacement for my climbing shoes. The Saltics are similar in terms of the space inside the shoe, but the rubber on the bottom is much thicker/stiffer, the rubber is very grippy and have a proper heel for heel hooking.
Dude, you are not going to get bunions from the few hours you have your feet in climbing shoes, you get it from the days of walking around in too narrow shoes. Climbing is very low impact on your feet.
These shoes do more harm to your technique than they are doing you any good in toe strength. You are now smearing small footholds, pushing yourself off the wall, and making you rely more on your upper body strength than pushing yourself up and standing on your toes. You are in fact not even using your toe strength anymore to stand up, because your toes have collapsed outwards in all your examples.
I'm not saying toe strength doesn't play a role in climbing, on the contrary. It's very important on slabs. But nowadays you barely find slabs, especially not in the gym.
For me, these shoes only fill a niche for climbers that focus on outdoor slabs, or climbers with a medical condition in their feet. It won't do anything for your 'feet development', do that on more impact related movements like walking/hiking/running or just getting around the house.
La Sportiva has made No edge shoes, were you are smearring small footholds, instead og using the edge of the shoe. And it works. I do agree with you a lot here tho, but smearing vs edge is actually a good convesation!
omg gave been looking for smt tike this :3
Thats awesome!
i have wide feet that measure to exactly size 44.5 and my favorite shoe right now is the lasportiva mantra in size 46. nice and snug on the width but just barely crimps my toes. that and the super thin rubber allows me to really flex my toes and mold my foot to holds. really nice as i have very strong feet, absolutely not recommended for people with regular feet used to being in "supportive" shoes all day
Interesting! I enjoy my women's Scarpa Veloce for their wider toe box and thin, highly flexible sole. Did find it a bit painful and heavy on the toes to get used to. But with these my second toe next to my big toe get the space they need. And they smear like nothing else. Did you ever try these? I wonder how they compare. I have no experience with barefoot shoes at all.
Dude I thought, huh that looks like a gym I know, then I saw you at deer creek and said “oh, that’s literally here” 😭
Try Paradigma scarpette. New italian shoes.
I have properly wide feet: also a long distance runner that prefers to run in basically moccasins. Any suggestion of anything made by scarpa is a straight up joke to me, I have tried multiple lines from them and sizes ranging from US 9 to 12.5, and every single one is so narrow that it leaves bruises if I actually try to climb in them. Again, I run 10-30 miles in shoes that are 4mm thick (before I wear them down), I do not have tender/sensitive feet. La Sportiva is even worse. What climbing shoe companies consider "wide" would be laughable if it wasn't causing so much long term damage to people.
Right now I climb in a pair of red chili fusion VCRs and they're on their 3rd resole because finding shoes is such a struggle. The new "oasis" (which is really an edelrid shoe) is narrower, but almost usable. Also the 9.5 is a bit tight while the 10 feels like a clown shoe.
Here's the thing: I'm only climbing somewhere in the 5.12s, it's not like I'm setting records or that my income depends on my performance. If I want to climb harder the shoes are rarely my problem. there are guys that can climb that hard in a pair of Crocs. I'll take a "good enough" shoe that is comfortable without hesitation because it means I'll spend a lot more time climbing and actually get better. Here to have fun, not max out my current shitty abilities through shoe technology.
I've also found the basic yellow butoras to work, not because they're actually wide enough but because they're so soft that they conform to my feet.
If I can figure out what size I actually am for these shoes I'll try them out, or if there's a local dealer I can try (or mail them back when they end up being 3 sizes too small because also climbing shoe companies have zero consistency)
Not really making a good point when your regular shoe just looks like the typical beginner's shoe/rental shoe rather than an actual performance shoe. But honestly I quite fancy the idea of barefoot climbing, but I would much rather do it just that way, barefeet. It's just not allowed in gyms. I don't think any barefoot style climbing shoe is ever gonna come close to the "ergonomical" benefits of actually going barefoot as you can't really crimp your toes on holds if it's encased in rubber. But climbing barefoot requires some mad toe strength and pain tolerance though.
I feel like these would be very good for thin crack; crazy thin toe box and profile
How do these compare to the scarpa veloces sizing wise? I wear oversized veloces (my big toe is straight in them) and only a few really tiny foot holds give me problems. My biggest gripe with the veloces is how much they press in the big toe, so the saltic shoes seem like a great alternative!
Miura vs and evolv aggro 2 wrecked my big toes, now I wear slightly undersized skwama and I'm way better, nowadays I value comfort more than performance.
You're not supposed to stay in the shoes more than when you actually climb, they're climbing shoes not walking shoes
for that price, i'm just going to climb in an old pair of undersized xero shoes and see how it feels. of course it doesn't have heel rubber and durability might be an issue, but just to experiment with the concept before i commit to it
I found that barefoot shoes like the BeLenka trailwalkers were not a substitute for climbing but the Saltics are a complete replacement (for me who prioritizes getting in shape and fun over just performance). The Saltics have grippier rubber and stiffer soles than Xeros
Hello fellow pipeworks climber! I mostly use solutions but have been thinking about getting some comfier shoes even though I’m pretty used to them. I max out at around 13a/v7 and find the aggressive shoes are just not necessary for many routes. Those dual text sloped footholds are killer, but that’s about it.
Oh hey! Well the Saltics are fully maxed out on the comfy spectrum. The smooth/glossy footholds aren’t usually that bad with them because you can smear above hitting the texture of the wall itself.
The Madrock Shark has a very wide toebox and I think even the 3.0 came out before these.
Are those the ones with the contoured sole (on the inside at the forefoot)? I think I tried those and hated them
@@JakeLeary I think the entire forefoot top and bottom is contoured. There is a polymer plate under the big toe though.
Have the Sharks. I would not recommend those fore anyone with a Wide Foot or toebox.
Wait… …I only just put 2+2 together - you’ve been popping up for me for barefoot stuff for a while, but you were doing a bunch of OneWheel stuff on another channel before, right?
I was doing onewheel videos on my channel but I also did the Learning with Leary series on the Float Life channel !
As someone who has discovered climbing and barefoot shoes roughly at the same time, this seems perfect for me. I'll need to wear out my current shoes before I can consider these, but I'm very conscious of how my climbing shoes over time might mess up my feet. That's part of why I wear toe spacers along with my barefoot shoes a lot of the time, to force good toe posture and teaching myself to engage my toes more when walking to try and counteract the effects of 2-3 2-hour climbing sessions per week. Great to see that something like this exists! One question though: how are their edges? With very soft shoes I'm always curious as to how well their soles are able to grab onto small edges, especially as my main gym has smooth walls, so smearing is far less useful than on rock or with textured walls.
Mmm smooth walls would make these less appealing, but it’s mostly the slab where I smear, I’m not smearing on any overhanging stuff. The edges are a bit soft for foot chips, and you’ll definitely be struggling/disappointed at first like I was, but like I said after a couple months I was only climbing in these, I’ll never go back now.
Damnit I just bought new TC Pros… 😂
Just use a partir of 5 fingers
Rumor has it they call him "The Shoe Man"...
Expensive tho
cool video
v5 in eu is like V2-v3 in Asia, just saying.
It’s good to say you hate tight shoes, but it’s stupid to say wearing flat climbing shoes can make one climb better, specially as an inexperienced climber
But I’m more convinced that you create this whole content just to sell theses shoes, do it for the bread, understandable. Coz even you would know how ridiculous it sounds
I agree, I feel like tiny indoor foot holds are only made to sell shoes, and destroy feet, nothing to do with skills and enjoying the sport. I thought about the same analogy with device we would wear like hooks to help the hand grip tiny crimps, they would not help the sport or your strength and would become mandatory. This week I bought my first real climbing shoes, I normally wear 42 size soes, I had to buy a 45 to not have unbearable pain wearing them. I found this so ridiculous. I feel like pointy, rigid shoes are just a cheat that became mandatory because of the indoor route setter using impossible foot chips. My personal advice is to stay avay from boulders that require cheat shoes and enjoy the rest. I would love the community to grow out of this perversion.
Tiny indoor footholds more closely mimic what might be found outdoors and they are more demanding on your technique. Ultimately, using smaller or awkward footholds will improve your climbing. It really isn't a conspiracy. Think of shoes as a tool to be used, they give a certain performance:wear ratio before needing to be replaced. It sucks that budgets for resoles and new shoes will affect what you can do but that's the same in a lot of sports equipment.
I hope you found a shoe that fit your foot well and didn't have to go big just to get it on without pain. Shape really makes a huge difference and it's worth trying lots of different manufacturers shoes. When I try on shoes I never expect them to be comfortable to walk around in, then match comfort to climb duration and you should be fine. Good luck!
@@dmizzle73 what you say is what most climber think but I feel that they are coerced by the feeling of belonging to the group and they fail to imagine a world of climbing without feet destroying shoes. I feel naturally like an outsider so I don't care and I find that the arms race between tiny holds and shoes makes no sense indoor (I repeat indoor) Outdoor it's different because natural condition and competition to climb harder grade makes sense. Indoor all the routes are artificial, we can make them what ever we want and we don't need to mimic precisely outdoor climbing at all. We can make the foothold challenging without requiring pointy rigid shoes. It's like the debate with anatomy in climbing, should competition favor tall people or not, I feel that they shouldn't. You want a tall sport : go volley and basket, or high/long jump. In climbing, no morphology should have any advantage, because the challenges don't need to be there and can be in any climber characteristic, ideally more technical and strength based than morphological. To conclude my point, it's true that some boulder don't require specific shoes, many do and it makes the sport less natural and about equipment. I used very soft beginner shoes for a year and I initially found it very hard to stand on toes on small holds, eventually my feet became way stronger and I still don't trust small chips but I can take them, without using real good shoes. but at the very hardest grade, I can't hold them with flexible shoes, so harder grade is only attainable by buying augmenting equipment which defeats the sport's spirit in my opinion. We should aim at improving ourselves, not using a device to replace our abilities.
@@raph151515 I'm nearly 40 - I've been climbing for 20 years. Peer pressure isn't a factor for me. I saw a few contemporaries go down the smaller is better route rarely causing injuries (though did see bursitis) but more often just unneccessary discomfort.
My goal is to climbing better on all angles and terrain. A lot of which means using the feet to their maximum potential. In the margins I will try different shoes with occasionally looser or tighter fit and degree of being downturned but mainly I try to use the best tool for the job. That will carry into my technique and ultimately highest level of climbing.
I'd urge you to consider fit and softness more than size. My indoor training shoe is a La Sportiva Theory, it fits my foot well and I can wear it for 10-15mins without issue. I couldn't do that in other LaS of the same size so I didn't buy them.
You can use inferior equipment if performance isn't your main goal. But, it's a bit like a ballet dancer not wearing ballet shoes - you can do some of the moves but you're missing out on some inherent part of the activity. Eventually, if you want to progress further you'll have to reconsider your approach.
In the meantime, allow everyone else who wants to train indoors for outdoor climbs their training apparatus (it was why indoor gyms opened in the first place after all).
@@raph151515 What you're failing to understand here is that indoor climbing is not a separate sport: it is meant to mimic and prepare people for outdoor climbing, which has very tiny footholds. Most experienced climbers climb outdoor seasonally, and indoor to train. It's fine that this isn't what you personally want to do, but the idea that the tiny footholds are some kind of exclusive in-group idea is crazy, it's design to train people for outdoor climbing, which is what many of us want to do.
Re: "using a device to replace our abilities", it is physically impossible to climb elite routes without climbing shoes. Period. It's not even close to possible. We would just have to give up climbing those routes without the shoes.
@@geometerfpv2804 actually there is nothing making this a rule. Things have evolved, now many boulder setting styles are completely different then rock climbing like dynos, coordo, ultra physical with jugs, slabs which are more prevalent in indoor bouldering, probably because generally rock climbing is more dangerous and indoor is more controlled. Yes outdoor climbers need a place to train but I think that indoor lead is more adapted for that. A big part of indoor bouldering is about something different than rock climbing and I feel that the footwear debate haven't even started and it will eventually come. Even in the Olympics and world cups feature many boulders (even though not the majority) that don't require ultra tight and rigid shoe but the way the competition is organized, it's difficult to have multiple shoes and change after the timer starts. The time of mostly crimps and chips is gone. It would be nice to see more boulders that don't require these shoes and more manufacturer with offering that value ergonomics more