As far as "Domain" play, CM1 Test of the Warlords with high level characters was a real challenge. Lots of paperwork and record keeping involved with that. In other campaigns we have had lower level characters take over a tower, base within a city and even take over an island that was a Drow stronghold with a cave leading to the Underdark. We also tried our hand at having an empire on the seas. It's fun to be a Pirate! One thing you can do with Domain Play is to level up your "Followers and Henchmen". Your high level PC doesn't need to be bothered with an Orc raiding party. They could send a few underlings armed with a few magic items to either scout it out or take care of the problem themselves. After all, that is the only way that they can improve their skills and show their worth to their Leige.
I'm glad you mentioned BECMI, too many people think BX is all there was and complain about the lack of rules they'd find in CM if they knew they existed. (I is another plane of worms entirely though.)
I think part of the "Where have they been till now!" can be mitigated by proper Wandering (not Random) encounter tables. I mean its in the name. If you balance encounters (in a 5e sense) for the players then, yes they will facing level 'appropriate' challenges, but this can lead to complacency. Scenarios where the DM may describe a clearly out classed foe (dragon, giant, black knight, archmage, tiamat, tarrasque) and the first thing the players do is try to fight it, because; "Well if the DM put it in, we must be able to fight/beat it." (there's also something to be said here for decoupling XP from the Gold standard) Whereas with some of the old wandering monster tables, when you - as a band of 1st levels - ran across 30-300 orcs you knew that the best thing to happen was to evaded during surprise. But now you knew that there was a sizeable force of orcs operating in the area. They were coming from and going to somewhere. And a warband of that size might have an encampment, where they've stashed all their pillage and plunder. So you might tackle them once you were higher level (or could afford more mercs) or do a little diplomacy with the local lords to borrow some strength of arms, or even just send a bunch of thieves and hit them during the day time when the orcs slept. Simply put the overland hex travel of the game was useful in generating hooks and threads for the players that could not necessarily be dealt with at the instance they were generated. They allowed you to show them the world was a big, scary, and vibrant living place. And they would require more power, then what 3 mad hombres could provide, to overcome it.
I would love an overview of some domain play rules. I'm running what is basically a domain play level game right now, where the characters took over a town, but the players mostly go day-to-day.
@@talscorner3696 for context that’s a 5e book and when I used it I didn’t like it. It’s clunky and the mass combat system is about 10 times as long as it should be. Followers are just as complicated as having a simple statblock (which makes them pointless as a time saver). It seems to be a clunky solution overall and doesn’t include any actual domain rules (like tax, clearing land etc.) I ended up just converting BECMI rules for that particular 5e campaign where my group had a castle and a domain. I don’t recommend it. YMMV.
I have done domain play but I found it nearly left out the one player out who didn't like domain play and just decided to become the town librarian, which was wild. So everybody are doing these epic things, sending their followers out in groups. And the librarian builds out their library and starts a literacy campaign. I mean cool but it was hard. The librarian leveled up "intellectually" all the kids and curious adults in the area but after that it kind of tapered out. I got them involved in writing adventure stories for the library because the kids like adventure stories. It was just kind of a see saw every week as we were doing reports on the stronghold people and the librarian got a new shipment of books and taught 3 orphan kids how to read. I kinda admired the guy for sticking with it even as they are watching one of their friends become a lord, then a baron, then a duke. Another started a religious offshoot and founded churches in all of the nearby communities and started building a great work cathedral. Another started a magic school. The 5th guy had a thieves guild but kept running into character conflict with the lord, baron, duke who kept arresting and jailing the thief's followers. This where it finally started breaking down as they started arguing. I did a wrap session and then did a zoom out 100 years later where only the Elven mage was left recalling his friends who had all died by that point. Everyone knew the duke but I think the Librarian had the most impact. Wild.
I LOVE ALL Bandit's Keep videos! We modeled our high level play after Moorcock's Elric/eternal champion idea. The players did a lot of time/plane/reality jumping. In each place the PCs had to solve problems and fight mythic foes. Essentially they were plane hopping demi gods. We adapted the BECMI Immortals rules to 2nd ed D&D.
From one Dan to another, this sounds awesome. I only within the past 5-6yrs got a chance to read / listen to Moorcock’s Elric Saga. Weird and wonderful. Great job using the old stuff to make something new, fresh and exciting
@@danielrowan4716 I graduated HS in 93, so I've been rolling dice with these nerds for a while. But yeah we like old school sci fi/fantasy. I made them search their basements and garages for old characters. Then we promoted them to high level play.
Elric's story is that of a man starting out with domain play and growing tired of it to go adventuring. Oh no, my evil cousin I left the city to has done evil stuff!
I grew up playing in a group that would establish themselves as heroes of the realms. We established cool organizations like The Knights of Wundergore, bought businesses, etc. I haven't found that group, yet, who leans that way but I also haven't asked them. It makes me laugh a little, would I be asking players, like a job interviewer,, "Where do you see your character in 1-2 years?" And much like real life, I think there are planners (domains) and live until we die (heroes of the realms, we fight anything, anytime, anywhere). So, it really is up to the DM to be inquisitive and see what kind of players you have at the table and what kind of game you, as a DM, like to run. Your approach of creating separate games for those who like domain play is wise and the domain players can always join back with the realm players for the occasional defend the world from the latest threat game. Thanks for the vid. Always insightful.
My longest running campaign (19 months) has 13 players and a couple have reached domain level. We are using 1:1 time and multiple characters. The game is no where near retiring. We are having a blast going to war with each other and the big bads. We still are running dungeon crawls as well. Love this style of play
We are just hitting this cusp in my game. The pcs are level 3/4 and have discovered a race between a dragon cult to dig up resurrection stones from local tombs to summon a dragon and the pcs faction to keep the stones from them. I am going to convert it to domain play, where the armies need to keep control of the area around the tombs while the PCs throw heroes into them. So the armies and the pcs are all on a clock and pressured.
Back in the day I played the domain rules that are laid out in the BECMI Companion set for a while. But our domains were mostly just a backdrop for high level adventuring.
I think that works as well. In our games it's okay to dole out tasks between players. If you have one bloke who likes to manage this you can make them the castellan, like you can appoint a mapper or caller or quartermaster. As long as it's not a minigame that draws large amounts of time. If you ride around in a spacecraft or clipper ship you might have a navigator who does all the region travel.
When the players have risen to higher levels, a letter arrives from far off imploring their help to (fill in the blank). Now they get to travel to an unknown part of the world and then deal with a new issue. Keeps things fresh. Even at 20th level a party just can't be God slayers, if, the GM is doing it right. I ran the domain style once and every fourth session was the domain part, the other three sessions were the normal adventure style. Some of the fun was when the adventurers got back to civilization and found out things had changed unexpectedly.
One of the Birthright community people I talked to described what they thought a convention BR adventure needs. The PC cast is all leaders of a barony, you are merchant princes, the baroness herself, army commanders, the high priest of Lathander, the dude who showed up and built a giant tower in the forest, spymasters, high-level bodyguards etc. One crisis or opportunity facing your realm is revealed. A new resource, a monster, a crisis with other baronies or a combination. You do one round of diplomacy with whom this may concern and/or engage spies to identify what is going on. The baronial council, essentially the PCs, try to figure out how to weigh their combined resources against this. When you do, you are at the front of the effort. You are among the highest-level people in the barony after all. By either using the army, some intrigue, divine intervention and diplomatic wheeling you make it to the site of the crisis. On the scene you adventure much like captain/king Conan or emperor Elrc would do, you and your little goon platoon are there trying to figure out the heck is up with this demon forest or vampire or whatnot. It's most likely something with resources or at least personal power close to yourselves, or this would have been a job for the goon platoon.
One of my mates asked around our regional circle for what the highest level characters they had played as, when starting as level 1 people. The highest they reported reaching was level 6-7. I have tried to encourage players that they can play their old PCs in the next adventure, but they somehow like to redo the level 1 grind over and over. I try to imagine what that experience is like, when all you see is the level 1 grind where you can't afford a donkey.
The majority of play is done around 4th and 5th level, based on the XP curve and there is little end in sight for the 6th level player - if you didn’t want to remember the thrill of first level, you probably quit the game after deciding it wasn’t for you. I haven’t gone past 6th level. Nothing is lost. Roll another character and see if Thag can make it down to the bottom of the dungeon. It does lend itself to a problem where the game remains a dungeon crawler but if the table likes it… shadowdark is not popular because people love level 20
Our new setting isn’t a save the world campaign but a pantheon altering end game where the PCs affect the pantheon going fwd. Takes characters well beyond 20th level.
I'm a huge fan of Strangifier Press/Luke Murphy's The Realm for domain play, have played in two games now that utilize it and have had an absolute blast, some of the most fun I've ever had in the hobby period despite previously not really having been a domain game type of gal. Highly, highly recommend it (and it even works for low level domain play and not just high level domain play if you have players chomping at the bit to dive right in from the start)!
I have not seen an in person group suitable for high level play in over a decade. It's another animal all together. But if given a chance to run or play domain level again, I would jump at it. Good vid, thanks.
I like the idea of a cyclical game over time. If PCs grow, survive past adventuring and become powerful figures in their world, then the game style changes. Like Conan’s saga or the characters at the end of LOTR, life has changed. So, will the type of D&D or RPG. So many “games” within the game. Grown into an aged, rich veteran? Roll new characters and start all over again. The only boundaries are the imagination. Love it! Thanks Daniel! 👍🏼
One Ring seems to have a mechanic for growing the next generation of adventuring bums. Like you are Balin and Bilbo and the others, you've had your big adventure and still have a few smaller ones but you are starting to feel the years. And this lad Frodo might have what it takes to face the shadow once you no longer can. So each downtime you can start to steer him towards this foolishness.
I'm the guy in my group that tries to change things up with the styles of games we play so I would be very interested to see a video on domain level play. Thank you so much for the content. I am a huge fan.
I am running a Sci-Fi domain game using DnD and my own homebrew Unit’s and Capital Ship rules…It has been a blast having my players decide what they want to do for the session, along with their own political debates and arguments.
We made our own system. Characters start weak and get stronger. We have mixed level play too: if a player wants, we can just make a new character 1/2 the level of their highest level character. I'm really proud of the system. Very high level characters and low level characters can be in the same combat, and both make a difference. But the low level characters have to keep their distances or get squished!
Very solid advice, thanks for sharing! A D&D party tends to have a lot of money, and spending that money in developing their Home Base can be something amazing for them, especially if that gives them in-game perks. Cheers!
Conquering territory from neighboring kingdoms for taxation is one of the things my players love. The fabrications they create to have a casus belli are a wonder to behold.
I'd definitely like to learn more about what domain level play looks like at your table! Having not played with it feels like a hard sell. It's super cool that players get to have a say in the shape of the campaign, but it does fundamentally shift the gameplay. And that ends up making it feel very lonely, like something that individual players get interested in but rarely whole parties at a table. And I think that's partially because, in most systems, the domain play doesn't seem to dovetail nicely with the dungeon crawling or wilderness survival level of play. Heck, in od&d higher level tends to flatten the dungeon and survival play, with spells like create food & water or locate object or teleport. It definitely feels like there is some work that needs to be done to have domain level play enrich party play and dungeon/survival style play.
I've been meaning to check out the Game of Thrones game. You can actually start with domain-level play, standard low-level level or both where you have two characters. Band of Blade you play on 2 levels as well, the officers and multiple characters in different squads.
Hey Daniel, really enjoyed your video. I'm all for the domain videos, you picked a great topic. Most of my experience with D&D people are ready to play a new character by level 10. Why would hill giants suddenly be there? Don't know sounds like an adventure to me. I try to present it as the wilds or unknown areas of the map, either on or off map. Your hometown can't be the next hill over from a tribe of hill giants 😅 Berserkers at the Gates, you always have war gaming at your table, low or high level, in my opinion. High level play at my table normally you fight a god or it's Spelljammer time. They go farther and farther out and the stakes get higher and higher. Or you could go in reverse and just go deeper and deeper into mother Earth, what secrets does she hold 😉 Thanks for the video you have a wonderful day!
We have a Sci-fantasy DnD campaign and we’re at lvl 16 and still going. I just leaned into the overpower and the complexity and gave the players free reign. The overarching campaign arc is a ticking clock where they know exactly when progressively more and more dangerous threats to the empire are going to manifest and they have to stop them. In between they can do whatever and they can approach it however they want, including fleeing the doomed universe. The final threat is about to manifest in a couple of months, then I’m gonna give them the possibility to roam and do whatever. The power level of the cosmic campaign is absurd, so I don’t really worry to run out of challenges and they can dive into politics, exploration, war campaigns on a planetary scale or just follow any goal they would like to. In the end of the day, at level 16 they are still small fish in the pond.
Yeah. I always felt like higher level play meant the planes. I mean, it was all there in the books for a reason, right? There's a lot of planes, and someone's got to explore them.
I always enjoyed this level. My favorite PC became the Lord of the Refuge Isles off the coast of Sanctuary. That pretty much was his retirement though I was still up for playing. Since then I have become the sole DM and my buddy who was my DM back in those days has chosen to play characters solely. I am thinking of regenerating my old PC to be a powerful NPC in a rather unique situation that may now become the quest giver. Purely for nostalgia for all of us, not just me.
I assumed that's one way to do it. Any PCs you retire becomes regional NPCs, and your next PC can then be the new generation. The old PCs are still around as mentors, bosses, resources and patrons. They might even be semi-played by that player or help them personally in critical moments. As long as you don't have them completely overshadow the new crop of level 1-3 stooges. One Ring from Free League has a mechanic where you prepare your next PCs during downtime activities. Like you are playing Bilbo and Balin and the others, and in between travels you start to think this Frodo lad might have what it takes to face the shadow once you can no longer do it. In Call of Cthulhu, Chaosium suggests both a stable of PCs and retiring them now and then. Injuries, age and depleting SAN can create PCs which are alive and competent but not fit for field work. They become contacts and advisors and helpers to the active PCs. The bloke who got their leg snapped off by a dark young or is down to SAN 14 after a spell made them see true reality and the court of Azathoth is still alive and still has their Assyrian 83% and Law 55% and can teach other investigators the spell to bind a dimensional hound. They can take a few days off and do background checks for the field team so they don't have to spend nearly as much time reading train schedules and newspapers.
Ever since I was a kid, I always wanted to do "domain play" and never got the opportunity. I was so taken with the concept and its possibilities that eventually I resorted to writing a fantasy novel using the premise of "retired" adventurers just to satisfy the itch.
"If you are like me and you can play maybe only once ore twice a week", I am like you, but I feel very blessed to be able to play once ore twice a week 😸
I'm on my second campaign lasting 2+ years with a play-weekly group. In the first, we called it after 12th level and retired the characters. In this second campaign we're running an Adventure Path and it's been a bit of a let down at the higher levels, honestly. Currently the PCs are 18th level and I figure we have 2-3 months of play left to finish the adventure path. In both groups, none of the players have had any interest in domain play. I think they get enough management in their day jobs. Me, I'm a teacher with some management talent that I don't get to use enough. I'd love to mix in some domain-level play but although I've both hinted and explicitly put the offer on the table there's no interest from the players. Being a fantasy murder hobo is a different fantasy than being a fantasy McDonald's manager.
It's a question of ecology. THe orcs took care of the ogres needs then they got killed. So the ogres have to move further into the kingdom. Lich 2 ordered Lich 1 to do things so they didn't have to. Now they have to do those tasks themselves.
In my experiece, few players want to play high or epic level; groups often break up between 4th and 14th level. Currently, I am running an epic campaign, but half of the PCs got themselfs killed at 10th level by getting too selfconfident. So, we started all over again. In addition to this, I am amazed how little efford players put into the world. Most just want to sit there, roll some dice and listen to the DM; no realm building, no buisness running, no creating of magic items, and very little long lasting relationship and even very little teamwork. It's mostly "look at me how cool I am". May be I am too old for rpg after 40 years playing 😅
I think domain play must be introduced early and at a small level. It does not become a jarring shock when you suddenly splurge on a fort in nowhere. This can remove the correlation between level and domain. A few chumps at level 3-5 who get themselves a freehold out in the frontier and recognition from the magistrate as holders of a local divine mandate have earned it, and I wouldn't artificially hold them down. It depends on the scope and setting of the game. A street gang where the PCs are the leaders and lieutenants growing its influence from a little corner gang to a small army on the streets of Rome. A single ship that develops into a small fleet of privateers or merchants or explorers. The embassy of a far-off court which spreads the influence of their empire in a new world. Jesuit clerics working to spread the faith in Japan, building an underground cult region to region. There must be some effect from all these efforts. Players are only engaged in vanity projects for so long. There must be something you seek to accomplish with all these regional resources, like building a fleet large enough to challenge the dread pirate Brobert, survive against the other street gangs of Rome and rise above the filth, spread the kirishitan cult in competition to the temples as the shogun eventually cracks down on your sect etc. Or smaller benefits, you have a port town and now your ship can resupply there instead of paying to the french governor. You have a tavern, this is where your electoral campaign is run and everyone knows to find you at (for better or worse). The monastary you sponsored copies and translates texts for free. Or you can finally go beat up that twat who threw wine on you when you were level 2.
A couple reasons. I like what Colville said about wanting their game to have an end point in a reasonable timeframe. It also means you don’t have to worry about stretching all the awesome bits over 20 levels of play. However I am guessing it is also a perception problem. When you are level 5/20 it is hard to see your place in the world as significant. Level 5/10? Well that means you have some clout. Lastly especially with DCC that means you are only rolling hit points 10 times. Small threats stay threats longer. And big threats will always be big.
There are some games where characters do not level up. Metamorphosis Alpha had no level mechanic, neither did Classic Traveller. Most BRP characters can gain skills but do not get "fleshier" at high level. It made me look at the other things which come with high level more closely. A Classic Traveller PC will have more resources. Small things like better armour and even a battle dress and a laser gun, but also a more powerful spacecraft with a stronger sensor suite or more cargo or so. And hired help, you can have NPCs aiding you and providing skills you and the group lack or just extra guns in a fight. The players themselves will know more about the galaxy and its secrets, you don't start with intimate knowledge of why the empire works the way it works or what's up with aliens. Your PCs have more contacts they have gained in their travels which can aid them with goods and work and help. You might advance socially, to be given an imperial knighthood means you are someone that counts in space opera feudalism. Metamorphosis Alpha PCs will mostly find tech-relics and learn more about the true nature of the Warden. If you play a human, you have the power of goons. You can recruit fellow humans from your tribe easily, and even try to recruit weird mutants and robots you meet on the way. In Call of Cthulhu, PCs learn new spells and find weird magic stuff they might try to use. The players themselves get better at the routine of investigation, like what resources are available to essentially a team of private investigators.
I’m of an age where I think I have a fantasy of progress and the skills progression has always felt uninspiring to me but I think it’s a much better transition for the domain level play because you just acquire a big space ship or a castle or a mighty sword and you ARE someone suddenly. This is how real life works too. But ultimately, we have to play what we love and I don’t love that.
Hey, I have a question because I come from D&D 3.5 : in the old versions, a party is about 6-8 people and I am going to run my first 8-people game. Do you have a video about people that are not high in levels, but in numbers? I already figure that they can cover a lot more ground while searching in dungeons, so I have to make bigger rooms. Or very small annoying rooms so they have to pick who to send for a search.
Domain play is an interesting path to experiment with. There is one OSR game that seems to specialize in Domain play called: Adventurer Conqueror King. ( ACKS for short )- sort of an Advanced B/X retro-clone. Once the 2nd edition of ACKS comes out I will be exploring Domain play.
Personally, I don't start with a massive campaign arc in mind at all. I have POTENTIAL arcs in mind, but nothing firm: I let the PCs drive the story and I develop the "main arc" & BBEG from there as a long-term arc that interweaves with some of the "short" adventure arcs (i.e. "Guided Sandbox" style campaign). IMO, it gives a "big goal" with less repetition in encounter tropes. As for the "where have the monsters been until now": I have them there from the beginning and let the PCs know about them through rumors and whatnot. "Giants? Yeah, one squashed Farmer Brown's barn a few weeks ago!" Y'know, that sort of thing. And if the PCs are crazy-brave enough to go after Farmer Brown's Giant before they are level-appropriate... well, I'll work in warning signs of the power of the creature ("Brave Sir Robin tried to fight the Giant and got squished in one blow!"), as well as side-quests that could give the PCs an edge and some XP / level(s) prior to their meeting the Giant ("You've heard of a Dwarven Hammer that is reknowned as a weapon of giant slaying, but it was lost in the Caves of Chaos years ago.").
Hey just found your channel. I’d love to hear about domain play. Getting back into running games after a long break. Been trying to figure out a good way to handle that side of the game.
In the past, our players tend to retire their characters or they're phased into NPC's between levels 5 to 10; but I've been tinkering with domain play being more of a play-by-post or play-by-email setup so it doesn't takeaway from the classic game night feel where the players get together to adventure in a more traditional sense. I'd be interested in hearing about some other play-by-post systems and concepts you've used or are familiar with.
I havent been fortunate to either be in or run a domain level game, sure wanted to. Im starting a new group of just a few people, and I am going to attempt to do such, but may have to do it sneaky style. How? start at low level with " Where are you going to story your 50 gold you just found" are you carrying with you or leaving it in town? where in town? at the Inn?
D&D has a crucial problem where it is sold as a dungeon crawler to the first level starter and really doesn’t guide you into the domain level play, and the abrupt arrival of the Cleric and fighter followers really needs a more gentle introduction. MCDMs Strongholds and Followers does a great job of helping you envision how to transition your group and actually make them want to care about their domain. I don’t like their rules- I ❤ their plots and it changed my game. My 5th level Paladin is a mover and shaker. Surely a guy kicking around for a couple years in game deserves his stripes!
I'm running an evil campaign where the characters have become overlords. I'm not having any problems right now but I would love to know some domain rulesets. I play AD&D 2e.
@BanditsKeep Yes, the group is made by an oni barbarian, a shadow dragon specialty priest of Faluzure, a deep one wizard/priest and a succubus psionicist/assassin. They have conquered four cities and have a church and barbaric cities.
I seem to be one of the few people who have gone up to 36th (BECMI RULES!) and on to immortality. Also, retire around level 25 and let your hire aka new character take over.
It continually surprises me that discussions about high level D&D/OSR play revolve around not using the high level rules of the game themselves. Magic-users shouldn't get to use 6th-level spells, clerics shouldn't get to cast Insect Plague, fighters shouldn't get to use vorpal swords, and so on. It's particularly harsh for M-U players, whose class is premised on being weak early and strong later. But when "later" arrives, the consensus is that the group should not play when rules favor the M-U.
@@BanditsKeep Not directly, but the contradiction is in the terms in a way. "High level" play gets its meaning from the power level of the characters. High level PCs have 6th-level spells or Holy Avengers. Those are the parts of OSR/D&D rules that signal a character is high level. Advice about high level OSR/D&D play rarely talks about how to create satisfying play that incorporates those high level mechanisms. It's rarely positive about high level PC abilities. I would be thrilled to find videos titled, "How To Make Teleport Spells Fun and Necessary In Your Game" or "How To Run A Group of Type V Demons For Your Group of 12th-Level PCs". It's hard to find someone who runs fun, challenging OSR/D&D games using the most powerful rules who shares how they do it. It would be great to find someone who plays high level D&D at a high level.
I haven't read the domain rules yet. So I may change my mind when I do. But, to me, the domain setting sounds to me as if the campaign is just starting over at a lower level. It doesn't seem any different to me than just retiring the 10th level PCs. To me, this is unsatisfying. I don't have a problem with a bigger bad guy coming up after the previous one is gone. This new one might be in a different part of the world or on a different plane. The old bad might have just been a servant of the new bad. Or, with the old bad gone, an opening was made for something worse.
No need for balance. If the players want to spend fifteen levels in a small town hunting goblins and ankhegs, that's fine. If they want to try to influence or run the local kingdom at level three, that's fine too. Especially in 5e, by level three most charisma characters can seduce, befriend, or intimidate most of the mayors and nobles in a realm. Adventure just kind of grows from whatever they decide. And by level five or so, most combat specialized characters can hit way above what their mere stats suggest. Also, if orcs are in that pass, then it's orcs in that pass. Doesn't matter if you are level one or twenty. The desperate low level battle will be fun, and it will also be fun when your tenth level fighter runs through an entire war party without a sweat. On the same note, if it's a scary dragon, then it's a scary dragon. They can try to sneak, or flee, or test their luck. All are fun.
As far as "Domain" play, CM1 Test of the Warlords with high level characters was a real challenge. Lots of paperwork and record keeping involved with that.
In other campaigns we have had lower level characters take over a tower, base within a city and even take over an island that was a Drow stronghold with a cave leading to the Underdark. We also tried our hand at having an empire on the seas. It's fun to be a Pirate!
One thing you can do with Domain Play is to level up your "Followers and Henchmen". Your high level PC doesn't need to be bothered with an Orc raiding party. They could send a few underlings armed with a few magic items to either scout it out or take care of the problem themselves. After all, that is the only way that they can improve their skills and show their worth to their Leige.
This is why BECMI is the king of D&D. You can do everything. The game morphs and expands as you scale up. You dont rinse and repeat like 5e does.
I'm glad you mentioned BECMI, too many people think BX is all there was and complain about the lack of rules they'd find in CM if they knew they existed. (I is another plane of worms entirely though.)
I think part of the "Where have they been till now!" can be mitigated by proper Wandering (not Random) encounter tables.
I mean its in the name.
If you balance encounters (in a 5e sense) for the players then, yes they will facing level 'appropriate' challenges, but this can lead to complacency. Scenarios where the DM may describe a clearly out classed foe (dragon, giant, black knight, archmage, tiamat, tarrasque) and the first thing the players do is try to fight it, because; "Well if the DM put it in, we must be able to fight/beat it." (there's also something to be said here for decoupling XP from the Gold standard)
Whereas with some of the old wandering monster tables, when you - as a band of 1st levels - ran across 30-300 orcs you knew that the best thing to happen was to evaded during surprise. But now you knew that there was a sizeable force of orcs operating in the area. They were coming from and going to somewhere. And a warband of that size might have an encampment, where they've stashed all their pillage and plunder.
So you might tackle them once you were higher level (or could afford more mercs) or do a little diplomacy with the local lords to borrow some strength of arms, or even just send a bunch of thieves and hit them during the day time when the orcs slept.
Simply put the overland hex travel of the game was useful in generating hooks and threads for the players that could not necessarily be dealt with at the instance they were generated. They allowed you to show them the world was a big, scary, and vibrant living place. And they would require more power, then what 3 mad hombres could provide, to overcome it.
I would love an overview of some domain play rules. I'm running what is basically a domain play level game right now, where the characters took over a town, but the players mostly go day-to-day.
BECMI rules, green box.
Also ACKS2 which is a bit of spiritual successor of BECMI.
1e DMG. Prices for different components of the castle. Magic item construction rules. Specialist hirelings.
MCDM's Kingdoms & Warfare and Strongholds & Followers
@@talscorner3696 for context that’s a 5e book and when I used it I didn’t like it. It’s clunky and the mass combat system is about 10 times as long as it should be. Followers are just as complicated as having a simple statblock (which makes them pointless as a time saver). It seems to be a clunky solution overall and doesn’t include any actual domain rules (like tax, clearing land etc.)
I ended up just converting BECMI rules for that particular 5e campaign where my group had a castle and a domain. I don’t recommend it. YMMV.
I have done domain play but I found it nearly left out the one player out who didn't like domain play and just decided to become the town librarian, which was wild. So everybody are doing these epic things, sending their followers out in groups. And the librarian builds out their library and starts a literacy campaign. I mean cool but it was hard. The librarian leveled up "intellectually" all the kids and curious adults in the area but after that it kind of tapered out. I got them involved in writing adventure stories for the library because the kids like adventure stories. It was just kind of a see saw every week as we were doing reports on the stronghold people and the librarian got a new shipment of books and taught 3 orphan kids how to read. I kinda admired the guy for sticking with it even as they are watching one of their friends become a lord, then a baron, then a duke. Another started a religious offshoot and founded churches in all of the nearby communities and started building a great work cathedral. Another started a magic school. The 5th guy had a thieves guild but kept running into character conflict with the lord, baron, duke who kept arresting and jailing the thief's followers. This where it finally started breaking down as they started arguing. I did a wrap session and then did a zoom out 100 years later where only the Elven mage was left recalling his friends who had all died by that point. Everyone knew the duke but I think the Librarian had the most impact. Wild.
I LOVE ALL Bandit's Keep videos! We modeled our high level play after Moorcock's Elric/eternal champion idea. The players did a lot of time/plane/reality jumping. In each place the PCs had to solve problems and fight mythic foes. Essentially they were plane hopping demi gods. We adapted the BECMI Immortals rules to 2nd ed D&D.
From one Dan to another, this sounds awesome. I only within the past 5-6yrs got a chance to read / listen to Moorcock’s Elric Saga. Weird and wonderful. Great job using the old stuff to make something new, fresh and exciting
@@danielrowan4716 I graduated HS in 93, so I've been rolling dice with these nerds for a while. But yeah we like old school sci fi/fantasy. I made them search their basements and garages for old characters. Then we promoted them to high level play.
Elric's story is that of a man starting out with domain play and growing tired of it to go adventuring. Oh no, my evil cousin I left the city to has done evil stuff!
I grew up playing in a group that would establish themselves as heroes of the realms. We established cool organizations like The Knights of Wundergore, bought businesses, etc. I haven't found that group, yet, who leans that way but I also haven't asked them.
It makes me laugh a little, would I be asking players, like a job interviewer,, "Where do you see your character in 1-2 years?" And much like real life, I think there are planners (domains) and live until we die (heroes of the realms, we fight anything, anytime, anywhere). So, it really is up to the DM to be inquisitive and see what kind of players you have at the table and what kind of game you, as a DM, like to run.
Your approach of creating separate games for those who like domain play is wise and the domain players can always join back with the realm players for the occasional defend the world from the latest threat game.
Thanks for the vid. Always insightful.
My longest running campaign (19 months) has 13 players and a couple have reached domain level. We are using 1:1 time and multiple characters. The game is no where near retiring. We are having a blast going to war with each other and the big bads. We still are running dungeon crawls as well. Love this style of play
Nice!
Please discuss Domain level play more. It's very interesting to hear about, and i can't find much other discussion on it elsewhere
Back in the day Daniel, we had high level campaigns and a whole slew of rules we created for avatar & demi-god wars!
We are just hitting this cusp in my game. The pcs are level 3/4 and have discovered a race between a dragon cult to dig up resurrection stones from local tombs to summon a dragon and the pcs faction to keep the stones from them. I am going to convert it to domain play, where the armies need to keep control of the area around the tombs while the PCs throw heroes into them. So the armies and the pcs are all on a clock and pressured.
Back in the day I played the domain rules that are laid out in the BECMI Companion set for a while. But our domains were mostly just a backdrop for high level adventuring.
I think that works as well. In our games it's okay to dole out tasks between players. If you have one bloke who likes to manage this you can make them the castellan, like you can appoint a mapper or caller or quartermaster. As long as it's not a minigame that draws large amounts of time. If you ride around in a spacecraft or clipper ship you might have a navigator who does all the region travel.
When the players have risen to higher levels, a letter arrives from far off imploring their help to (fill in the blank). Now they get to travel to an unknown part of the world and then deal with a new issue. Keeps things fresh. Even at 20th level a party just can't be God slayers, if, the GM is doing it right. I ran the domain style once and every fourth session was the domain part, the other three sessions were the normal adventure style. Some of the fun was when the adventurers got back to civilization and found out things had changed unexpectedly.
One of the Birthright community people I talked to described what they thought a convention BR adventure needs. The PC cast is all leaders of a barony, you are merchant princes, the baroness herself, army commanders, the high priest of Lathander, the dude who showed up and built a giant tower in the forest, spymasters, high-level bodyguards etc.
One crisis or opportunity facing your realm is revealed. A new resource, a monster, a crisis with other baronies or a combination. You do one round of diplomacy with whom this may concern and/or engage spies to identify what is going on. The baronial council, essentially the PCs, try to figure out how to weigh their combined resources against this. When you do, you are at the front of the effort. You are among the highest-level people in the barony after all. By either using the army, some intrigue, divine intervention and diplomatic wheeling you make it to the site of the crisis. On the scene you adventure much like captain/king Conan or emperor Elrc would do, you and your little goon platoon are there trying to figure out the heck is up with this demon forest or vampire or whatnot. It's most likely something with resources or at least personal power close to yourselves, or this would have been a job for the goon platoon.
Domain play is definitely something I'd like to have in my game. I just actually have to start the damn game...
One of my mates asked around our regional circle for what the highest level characters they had played as, when starting as level 1 people. The highest they reported reaching was level 6-7. I have tried to encourage players that they can play their old PCs in the next adventure, but they somehow like to redo the level 1 grind over and over. I try to imagine what that experience is like, when all you see is the level 1 grind where you can't afford a donkey.
The majority of play is done around 4th and 5th level, based on the XP curve and there is little end in sight for the 6th level player - if you didn’t want to remember the thrill of first level, you probably quit the game after deciding it wasn’t for you. I haven’t gone past 6th level. Nothing is lost. Roll another character and see if Thag can make it down to the bottom of the dungeon.
It does lend itself to a problem where the game remains a dungeon crawler but if the table likes it… shadowdark is not popular because people love level 20
Yours is the best channel for origin era RPG thinking and advice by far.
Thanks!
Our new setting isn’t a save the world campaign but a pantheon altering end game where the PCs affect the pantheon going fwd. Takes characters well beyond 20th level.
So Throne of Bhaal, but on the tabletop?
I'm a huge fan of Strangifier Press/Luke Murphy's The Realm for domain play, have played in two games now that utilize it and have had an absolute blast, some of the most fun I've ever had in the hobby period despite previously not really having been a domain game type of gal. Highly, highly recommend it (and it even works for low level domain play and not just high level domain play if you have players chomping at the bit to dive right in from the start)!
Daniel, it was nice to meet you at Garycon. I was running Zenopus next to you on Saturday night.
Nice to meet you too! It looked like you and your players were having a blast!
Thanks, it went well.
I have not seen an in person group suitable for high level play in over a decade. It's another animal all together. But if given a chance to run or play domain level again, I would jump at it. Good vid, thanks.
I like the idea of a cyclical game over time. If PCs grow, survive past adventuring and become powerful figures in their world, then the game style changes. Like Conan’s saga or the characters at the end of LOTR, life has changed. So, will the type of D&D or RPG. So many “games” within the game. Grown into an aged, rich veteran? Roll new characters and start all over again. The only boundaries are the imagination. Love it! Thanks Daniel! 👍🏼
One Ring seems to have a mechanic for growing the next generation of adventuring bums. Like you are Balin and Bilbo and the others, you've had your big adventure and still have a few smaller ones but you are starting to feel the years. And this lad Frodo might have what it takes to face the shadow once you no longer can. So each downtime you can start to steer him towards this foolishness.
I'm the guy in my group that tries to change things up with the styles of games we play so I would be very interested to see a video on domain level play. Thank you so much for the content. I am a huge fan.
Awesome, I will work on it
I am running a Sci-Fi domain game using DnD and my own homebrew Unit’s and Capital Ship rules…It has been a blast having my players decide what they want to do for the session, along with their own political debates and arguments.
Just ordered the BECMI module CM9 Legacy of Blood. Can't wait for it to arrive! Adventures for Levels 15-18. Should be awesome!
Yes, please! Cover the higher level play-by-post stuff. Your videos are awesome and I am always glad to see them on my feed.
Thanks! I’ll add it to my list
We made our own system. Characters start weak and get stronger.
We have mixed level play too: if a player wants, we can just make a new character 1/2 the level of their highest level character.
I'm really proud of the system. Very high level characters and low level characters can be in the same combat, and both make a difference.
But the low level characters have to keep their distances or get squished!
Very solid advice, thanks for sharing!
A D&D party tends to have a lot of money, and spending that money in developing their Home Base can be something amazing for them, especially if that gives them in-game perks.
Cheers!
For sure
Conquering territory from neighboring kingdoms for taxation is one of the things my players love. The fabrications they create to have a casus belli are a wonder to behold.
I'd definitely like to learn more about what domain level play looks like at your table! Having not played with it feels like a hard sell. It's super cool that players get to have a say in the shape of the campaign, but it does fundamentally shift the gameplay. And that ends up making it feel very lonely, like something that individual players get interested in but rarely whole parties at a table. And I think that's partially because, in most systems, the domain play doesn't seem to dovetail nicely with the dungeon crawling or wilderness survival level of play. Heck, in od&d higher level tends to flatten the dungeon and survival play, with spells like create food & water or locate object or teleport. It definitely feels like there is some work that needs to be done to have domain level play enrich party play and dungeon/survival style play.
I've been meaning to check out the Game of Thrones game. You can actually start with domain-level play, standard low-level level or both where you have two characters. Band of Blade you play on 2 levels as well, the officers and multiple characters in different squads.
Hey Daniel, really enjoyed your video. I'm all for the domain videos, you picked a great topic. Most of my experience with D&D people are ready to play a new character by level 10. Why would hill giants suddenly be there? Don't know sounds like an adventure to me. I try to present it as the wilds or unknown areas of the map, either on or off map. Your hometown can't be the next hill over from a tribe of hill giants 😅
Berserkers at the Gates, you always have war gaming at your table, low or high level, in my opinion. High level play at my table normally you fight a god or it's Spelljammer time. They go farther and farther out and the stakes get higher and higher. Or you could go in reverse and just go deeper and deeper into mother Earth, what secrets does she hold 😉
Thanks for the video you have a wonderful day!
We have a Sci-fantasy DnD campaign and we’re at lvl 16 and still going. I just leaned into the overpower and the complexity and gave the players free reign. The overarching campaign arc is a ticking clock where they know exactly when progressively more and more dangerous threats to the empire are going to manifest and they have to stop them. In between they can do whatever and they can approach it however they want, including fleeing the doomed universe. The final threat is about to manifest in a couple of months, then I’m gonna give them the possibility to roam and do whatever. The power level of the cosmic campaign is absurd, so I don’t really worry to run out of challenges and they can dive into politics, exploration, war campaigns on a planetary scale or just follow any goal they would like to. In the end of the day, at level 16 they are still small fish in the pond.
I’ve never had a group that has fully engaged with domain play. They much prefer continuing to adventure which usually means the planes.
Yeah. I always felt like higher level play meant the planes. I mean, it was all there in the books for a reason, right? There's a lot of planes, and someone's got to explore them.
Like you are now an acceptable starting level for playing Planescape, welcome to Sigil?
@@SusCalvin yep.
Great video man!
Thank You!
Thank you!
Thanks for watching
Really enjoyed it Daniel ty
Thank You!
I always enjoyed this level. My favorite PC became the Lord of the Refuge Isles off the coast of Sanctuary. That pretty much was his retirement though I was still up for playing. Since then I have become the sole DM and my buddy who was my DM back in those days has chosen to play characters solely.
I am thinking of regenerating my old PC to be a powerful NPC in a rather unique situation that may now become the quest giver. Purely for nostalgia for all of us, not just me.
I assumed that's one way to do it. Any PCs you retire becomes regional NPCs, and your next PC can then be the new generation. The old PCs are still around as mentors, bosses, resources and patrons. They might even be semi-played by that player or help them personally in critical moments. As long as you don't have them completely overshadow the new crop of level 1-3 stooges.
One Ring from Free League has a mechanic where you prepare your next PCs during downtime activities. Like you are playing Bilbo and Balin and the others, and in between travels you start to think this Frodo lad might have what it takes to face the shadow once you can no longer do it.
In Call of Cthulhu, Chaosium suggests both a stable of PCs and retiring them now and then. Injuries, age and depleting SAN can create PCs which are alive and competent but not fit for field work. They become contacts and advisors and helpers to the active PCs. The bloke who got their leg snapped off by a dark young or is down to SAN 14 after a spell made them see true reality and the court of Azathoth is still alive and still has their Assyrian 83% and Law 55% and can teach other investigators the spell to bind a dimensional hound. They can take a few days off and do background checks for the field team so they don't have to spend nearly as much time reading train schedules and newspapers.
Ever since I was a kid, I always wanted to do "domain play" and never got the opportunity. I was so taken with the concept and its possibilities that eventually I resorted to writing a fantasy novel using the premise of "retired" adventurers just to satisfy the itch.
That’s a great story, did you publish the novel?
@@BanditsKeep I did! It's titled "The Cleansing of Eskemar". And the sequel should be coming out later this year.
@@meistergedanken4790 very cool! Is it on Amazon? If not where can it be found?
@@BanditsKeep Yes, it is on Amazon, available as a paperback and on Kindle.
@@meistergedanken4790 ordered at copy!
Only 12 minutes old and I already “Liked”! Yeah! 😂
Nice, thanks!
Yay! New Episode!
Yes!
Thanks for the video! I enjoyed it.
Awesome video! Got my gears turning.
Thank You!
I would love to see some overviews of various methods of domain play.
Cool, I’ll see what I can come up with
Definitely would love an overview of domain play rules.
Cool
I would be very interested in rule sets for domain play.
Cool
Love all this bandit keep content!!!
Thank You!
The birthright campaign setting in 2e had a domain system. It's quite setting specific however.
I’ve heard it was cool but I have never played Birthright
"If you are like me and you can play maybe only once ore twice a week", I am like you, but I feel very blessed to be able to play once ore twice a week 😸
Ha ha, so do I
Forgotten Lands rpg has some good domain play rules and charts to roll on.
Cool, I have it, just haven’t gotten around to playing it yet- I’ll look for those rules
@BanditsKeep Same. I got the game and read it, getting ready to run it but haven't gotten to do it yet.
I'm on my second campaign lasting 2+ years with a play-weekly group. In the first, we called it after 12th level and retired the characters. In this second campaign we're running an Adventure Path and it's been a bit of a let down at the higher levels, honestly. Currently the PCs are 18th level and I figure we have 2-3 months of play left to finish the adventure path.
In both groups, none of the players have had any interest in domain play. I think they get enough management in their day jobs. Me, I'm a teacher with some management talent that I don't get to use enough. I'd love to mix in some domain-level play but although I've both hinted and explicitly put the offer on the table there's no interest from the players.
Being a fantasy murder hobo is a different fantasy than being a fantasy McDonald's manager.
Please, an overview of domain play systems! 😊
Will do
It's a question of ecology. THe orcs took care of the ogres needs then they got killed. So the ogres have to move further into the kingdom. Lich 2 ordered Lich 1 to do things so they didn't have to. Now they have to do those tasks themselves.
That’s certainly one way to explain it 😊
In my experiece, few players want to play high or epic level; groups often break up between 4th and 14th level. Currently, I am running an epic campaign, but half of the PCs got themselfs killed at 10th level by getting too selfconfident. So, we started all over again. In addition to this, I am amazed how little efford players put into the world. Most just want to sit there, roll some dice and listen to the DM; no realm building, no buisness running, no creating of magic items, and very little long lasting relationship and even very little teamwork. It's mostly "look at me how cool I am". May be I am too old for rpg after 40 years playing 😅
I think domain play must be introduced early and at a small level. It does not become a jarring shock when you suddenly splurge on a fort in nowhere. This can remove the correlation between level and domain. A few chumps at level 3-5 who get themselves a freehold out in the frontier and recognition from the magistrate as holders of a local divine mandate have earned it, and I wouldn't artificially hold them down.
It depends on the scope and setting of the game. A street gang where the PCs are the leaders and lieutenants growing its influence from a little corner gang to a small army on the streets of Rome. A single ship that develops into a small fleet of privateers or merchants or explorers. The embassy of a far-off court which spreads the influence of their empire in a new world. Jesuit clerics working to spread the faith in Japan, building an underground cult region to region.
There must be some effect from all these efforts. Players are only engaged in vanity projects for so long. There must be something you seek to accomplish with all these regional resources, like building a fleet large enough to challenge the dread pirate Brobert, survive against the other street gangs of Rome and rise above the filth, spread the kirishitan cult in competition to the temples as the shogun eventually cracks down on your sect etc. Or smaller benefits, you have a port town and now your ship can resupply there instead of paying to the french governor. You have a tavern, this is where your electoral campaign is run and everyone knows to find you at (for better or worse). The monastary you sponsored copies and translates texts for free. Or you can finally go beat up that twat who threw wine on you when you were level 2.
I’m looking forward to games that only go to level 10, like DCC and MCDM
Any particular reason?
A couple reasons. I like what Colville said about wanting their game to have an end point in a reasonable timeframe. It also means you don’t have to worry about stretching all the awesome bits over 20 levels of play.
However I am guessing it is also a perception problem. When you are level 5/20 it is hard to see your place in the world as significant. Level 5/10? Well that means you have some clout.
Lastly especially with DCC that means you are only rolling hit points 10 times. Small threats stay threats longer. And big threats will always be big.
There are some games where characters do not level up. Metamorphosis Alpha had no level mechanic, neither did Classic Traveller. Most BRP characters can gain skills but do not get "fleshier" at high level. It made me look at the other things which come with high level more closely.
A Classic Traveller PC will have more resources. Small things like better armour and even a battle dress and a laser gun, but also a more powerful spacecraft with a stronger sensor suite or more cargo or so. And hired help, you can have NPCs aiding you and providing skills you and the group lack or just extra guns in a fight. The players themselves will know more about the galaxy and its secrets, you don't start with intimate knowledge of why the empire works the way it works or what's up with aliens. Your PCs have more contacts they have gained in their travels which can aid them with goods and work and help. You might advance socially, to be given an imperial knighthood means you are someone that counts in space opera feudalism.
Metamorphosis Alpha PCs will mostly find tech-relics and learn more about the true nature of the Warden. If you play a human, you have the power of goons. You can recruit fellow humans from your tribe easily, and even try to recruit weird mutants and robots you meet on the way. In Call of Cthulhu, PCs learn new spells and find weird magic stuff they might try to use. The players themselves get better at the routine of investigation, like what resources are available to essentially a team of private investigators.
I’m of an age where I think I have a fantasy of progress and the skills progression has always felt uninspiring to me but I think it’s a much better transition for the domain level play because you just acquire a big space ship or a castle or a mighty sword and you ARE someone suddenly. This is how real life works too. But ultimately, we have to play what we love and I don’t love that.
Hey, I have a question because I come from D&D 3.5 : in the old versions, a party is about 6-8 people and I am going to run my first 8-people game. Do you have a video about people that are not high in levels, but in numbers?
I already figure that they can cover a lot more ground while searching in dungeons, so I have to make bigger rooms. Or very small annoying rooms so they have to pick who to send for a search.
Not specifically, but that is a good topic!
Do you know who is the artist that made the picture you used for this miniature? I find it really incredible and wish to see more things like it
Domain play is an interesting path to experiment with. There is one OSR game that seems to specialize in Domain play called: Adventurer Conqueror King. ( ACKS for short )- sort of an Advanced B/X retro-clone. Once the 2nd edition of ACKS comes out I will be exploring Domain play.
Personally, I don't start with a massive campaign arc in mind at all. I have POTENTIAL arcs in mind, but nothing firm: I let the PCs drive the story and I develop the "main arc" & BBEG from there as a long-term arc that interweaves with some of the "short" adventure arcs (i.e. "Guided Sandbox" style campaign). IMO, it gives a "big goal" with less repetition in encounter tropes.
As for the "where have the monsters been until now": I have them there from the beginning and let the PCs know about them through rumors and whatnot. "Giants? Yeah, one squashed Farmer Brown's barn a few weeks ago!" Y'know, that sort of thing. And if the PCs are crazy-brave enough to go after Farmer Brown's Giant before they are level-appropriate... well, I'll work in warning signs of the power of the creature ("Brave Sir Robin tried to fight the Giant and got squished in one blow!"), as well as side-quests that could give the PCs an edge and some XP / level(s) prior to their meeting the Giant ("You've heard of a Dwarven Hammer that is reknowned as a weapon of giant slaying, but it was lost in the Caves of Chaos years ago.").
Nice
“Only play once or twice a week?” Oh to play that regularly. I play once or twice/month!
Better than not at all!
@@BanditsKeep very true. It’s tough when you get older. Back in high school I played a 4 year campaign weekly. Haven’t had that kinda time in years
Hey just found your channel. I’d love to hear about domain play. Getting back into running games after a long break. Been trying to figure out a good way to handle that side of the game.
I’ll put it on the list for sure
In the past, our players tend to retire their characters or they're phased into NPC's between levels 5 to 10; but I've been tinkering with domain play being more of a play-by-post or play-by-email setup so it doesn't takeaway from the classic game night feel where the players get together to adventure in a more traditional sense. I'd be interested in hearing about some other play-by-post systems and concepts you've used or are familiar with.
Cool. That’s a great solution
I would love an overview of domain rules. My son is lvl 2 and he's already talking about his wizard tower...
That’s awesome !
Domain Play Rules review, please! :D
Will do
I havent been fortunate to either be in or run a domain level game, sure wanted to. Im starting a new group of just a few people, and I am going to attempt to do such, but may have to do it sneaky style. How? start at low level with " Where are you going to story your 50 gold you just found" are you carrying with you or leaving it in town? where in town? at the Inn?
That’s definitely one approach - another might be to establish a bit of a safe house that they own a share in right from the beginning
D&D has a crucial problem where it is sold as a dungeon crawler to the first level starter and really doesn’t guide you into the domain level play, and the abrupt arrival of the Cleric and fighter followers really needs a more gentle introduction. MCDMs Strongholds and Followers does a great job of helping you envision how to transition your group and actually make them want to care about their domain. I don’t like their rules- I ❤ their plots and it changed my game. My 5th level Paladin is a mover and shaker. Surely a guy kicking around for a couple years in game deserves his stripes!
Please cover domain play rule sets.
Will do
I'm running an evil campaign where the characters have become overlords. I'm not having any problems right now but I would love to know some domain rulesets. I play AD&D 2e.
Interesting - did you start with the evil theme at level 1?
@BanditsKeep Yes, the group is made by an oni barbarian, a shadow dragon specialty priest of Faluzure, a deep one wizard/priest and a succubus psionicist/assassin.
They have conquered four cities and have a church and barbaric cities.
@@samuelciprispuches9548 very cool!
I seem to be one of the few people who have gone up to 36th (BECMI RULES!) and on to immortality. Also, retire around level 25 and let your hire aka new character take over.
Fun! I’d love to try the immortal rules some day
It continually surprises me that discussions about high level D&D/OSR play revolve around not using the high level rules of the game themselves. Magic-users shouldn't get to use 6th-level spells, clerics shouldn't get to cast Insect Plague, fighters shouldn't get to use vorpal swords, and so on. It's particularly harsh for M-U players, whose class is premised on being weak early and strong later. But when "later" arrives, the consensus is that the group should not play when rules favor the M-U.
Are you suggesting I am saying this?
@@BanditsKeep Not directly, but the contradiction is in the terms in a way. "High level" play gets its meaning from the power level of the characters. High level PCs have 6th-level spells or Holy Avengers. Those are the parts of OSR/D&D rules that signal a character is high level. Advice about high level OSR/D&D play rarely talks about how to create satisfying play that incorporates those high level mechanisms. It's rarely positive about high level PC abilities. I would be thrilled to find videos titled, "How To Make Teleport Spells Fun and Necessary In Your Game" or "How To Run A Group of Type V Demons For Your Group of 12th-Level PCs". It's hard to find someone who runs fun, challenging OSR/D&D games using the most powerful rules who shares how they do it. It would be great to find someone who plays high level D&D at a high level.
I haven't read the domain rules yet. So I may change my mind when I do. But, to me, the domain setting sounds to me as if the campaign is just starting over at a lower level. It doesn't seem any different to me than just retiring the 10th level PCs.
To me, this is unsatisfying. I don't have a problem with a bigger bad guy coming up after the previous one is gone. This new one might be in a different part of the world or on a different plane. The old bad might have just been a servant of the new bad. Or, with the old bad gone, an opening was made for something worse.
Some people start over sone run their domains as war machines or political hot spots
No need for balance. If the players want to spend fifteen levels in a small town hunting goblins and ankhegs, that's fine.
If they want to try to influence or run the local kingdom at level three, that's fine too.
Especially in 5e, by level three most charisma characters can seduce, befriend, or intimidate most of the mayors and nobles in a realm. Adventure just kind of grows from whatever they decide.
And by level five or so, most combat specialized characters can hit way above what their mere stats suggest.
Also, if orcs are in that pass, then it's orcs in that pass. Doesn't matter if you are level one or twenty. The desperate low level battle will be fun, and it will also be fun when your tenth level fighter runs through an entire war party without a sweat.
On the same note, if it's a scary dragon, then it's a scary dragon. They can try to sneak, or flee, or test their luck. All are fun.
Indeed
I would like domain rules :)